Your unpopular TMNT opinions

[Prowler]

In such a divided fandom as TMNT, I'm sure some people will have A LOT to say. It can be about anything TMNT related. From the comics, to the cartoons, to the video games, to the merchandise, to Coming Out of Their Shells and to even the anime OVA.

But tbh, I don't think I have THAT many unpopular TMNT opinions myself, come to think about it. Lemme see...

I like Carter: Yes, I do. I know most fans don't like or care about him, but I think he was OK. And wouldn't mind seeing him again one day if done right.

Making April younger and then Black was absurd: April was fine being a woman in her 20s. it's not like the Turtles in Mirage, FW or 2k3 acted like human 15-16 year olds do. So I've never seen anything odd about their friendship with April. Making both her and the Turtles younger is a decision I didn't like. And making her Black out of pure tokenistic reasons was also absurd. A lot of history revisionism has been spread on these forums "April being Black all along!".

I'm not a fan of Slash or the concept itself: More than 4 mutant Turtles is a no-no for me. That's all.

Turtles in Time, while a pretty good game, is rather overrated: I remember ScrewAttack listing it #1 in their "best beat 'em ups ever" top 10 in like 2007 or so and suddenly a lot of people online saying that as well. Come on now, it was a fun game, but I consider Final Fight and Streets of Rage superior. Plus, I'd argue that the original TMNT Arcade game is superior to both the Arcade and SNES versions of Turtles in Time.

The hell with Bay Turtles: Now you're gonna tell me "Huh OP, a lot of us hate those too". Well sure, but A LOT of people watched them and liked them. Hell, there's people on these forums that have admitted to have WILLINGLY PAID to watch those movies several times at the cinema. Like buying 3-4 tickets to re-watch them.

Booyakasha is a terrible catchphrase for the TMNT: Not that Cowabunga was exactly original back then either, but you could say it was them alongside The Simpsons who made ti mainstream. While, when you think of Booyakasha, Ali G is who springs to your mind. I like Ali G and all, but the last thing on my mind while watching Ali G or anything Sasha Baron Cohen is TMNT. Honestly, what was wrong with cowabunga? Is it because it was old and outdated? Well, booyaasha wasn't exactly hip in 2012 anymore either. Ali G stopped being cool in like... 2005? The TMNT Nick toon is from 2012.

What makes some of these opinions unpopular? Well, I use these forums as a barometer for what more "hardcore" TMNT fans think. 99% of TMNT fans I see outside of this place are the "FW and first 3 movies only" variety. So...

[Leo656]

I like Slash - although his character is very inconsistently portrayed - but I agree with most of that. I love Turtles In Time but it's a 25-minute game, so yeah, not perfect.

I don't love Mirage, and I despise Jim Lawson's art. That can get you shot around here.

[Prowler]

I like Slash - although his character is very inconsistently portrayed - but I agree with most of that. I love Turtles In Time but it's a 25-minute game, so yeah, not perfect.

I don't love Miragr, and I despise Jim Lawson's art. That can get you shot around here.
Yeah, fun quick game and all, but I can't just see it as a GOAT kind of game. Not even as the cream of the crop of its genre.

Well, I have only read about 15-20 issues or so of Mirage so far so I can't really say much about it yet. Some issues felt like a chore to sit through, though, but I guess there's always bound to be a few bad issues in a long-running series.

Also, you misspellt "Mirage". Guess you do make typos, after all :trazz:

[Sobble]

Oh **** the salty haters are coming at me

[snake]

-Rise is genuinely good

-The franchise needs to stop focusing on the same old sh*t

-The 2k12 turtles and their interactions feel the most real out of every incarnation

-The OT- for the most part- is unwatchable

-TMNT 2007 is a decent movie, despite it's flaws

[Leo656]

Also, you misspellt "Mirage". Guess you do make typos, after all :trazz:

Thanks, I was on my phone. Aaaand that's why I generally don't post with my phone.

[AT-Man]

I'm not a fan of Slash or the concept itself: More than 4 mutant Turtles is a no-no for me. That's all.

I think in 2012 version Slash/Spike was a tortoise, so technically he doesn't have to be a fifth turtle :twink:


I hate the original Shredder action figure. It's in a weird stance and looks dumb.

I have no problem making the turtles' shells virtually bullet proof, but their skins shouldn't be.

I hate it when the turtles are depicted retracting fully into their shells. HOW are their limbs and head supposed to fit in there??? :tgrumble:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Making April younger

I think most people prefer April O'Neil being in her 20's.

[sdp]

I post these all the time but The Next Mutation is not that bad and neither are Bay turtles,not saying they're not disappointing in different regards but crap like COOTS gets less hate when it's far more awfu.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I post these all the time but The Next Mutation is not that bad and neither are Bay turtles,not saying they're not disappointing in different regards but crap like COOTS gets less hate when it's far more awfu.

Didn't the Platinum Dunes films already get enough hate during the 2010's?

[Jester]

Not sure how unpopular it is, but I feel TMNT III is underrated and if they had stuck with Henson made suits, would easily be the 2nd best TMNT movie, because nothing will ever beat the original.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Not sure how unpopular it is, but I feel TMNT III is underrated and if they had stuck with Henson made suits, would easily be the 2nd best TMNT movie, because nothing will ever beat the original.

To me, it already is (I have talked about why so many thrads it's getting tiresome now)

Secret of the Ooze removed the extraterrestrial origin of the mutagen

[Wesley]

-Rise is genuinely good

-The franchise needs to stop focusing on the same old sh*t

-The 2k12 turtles and their interactions feel the most real out of every incarnation

-The OT- for the most part- is unwatchable

-TMNT 2007 is a decent movie, despite it's flaws


Agree with most of this.

Not sure how unpopular it is, but I feel TMNT III is underrated and if they had stuck with Henson made suits, would easily be the 2nd best TMNT movie, because nothing will ever beat the original.

Same. Nostalgia could be clouding my judgment, though, as III was the only TMNT film I saw as a kid.

I’ll add that Secret of the Ooze is the worst TMNT film, not BayTurtles.

[Autbot_Benz]

Stop making the Turtles comedy goofballs its ok to make them serious ninja in cartoons.

The 3rd TMNT movie is not that bad its more enjoyable than the two turds that came out of Micheal Bay's ass



FW is massively overrated and not that good though its more tolerable than Rise is.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Booyakasha is a terrible catchphrase for the TMNT:

I don't think it is that popular.

I see Cowabunga more as an expression for something awsome, and Booyakasha as a battlecry.

[Prowler]

Stop making the Turtles comedy goofballs its ok to make them serious ninja in cartoons.

The 3rd TMNT movie is not that bad its more enjoyable than the two turds that came out of Micheal Bay's ass



FW is massively overrated and not that good though its more tolerable than Rise is.
It's really amazing how Bay Turtles made the 3rd TMNT movie and Next Mutation look OK in comparison. It really is. Boy, I miss the days where TNM/Venus de Milo and the 3rd TMNT movie were considered the worst TMNT versions ever.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It's really amazing how Bay Turtles made the 3rd TMNT movie and Next Mutation look OK in comparison. It really is. Boy, I miss the days where TNM/Venus de Milo and the 3rd TMNT movie were considered the worst TMNT versions ever.

You forgot the stageshow, We Wish You a Turtle Christmas video film and Operation Blue Line.

[neatoman]

I like the Mark Martin issues.

[DevilSpooky]

Ok let's see,

- I deslike the FW show, sure I grew up with it and made me and everyone else love these boys but boy, does it stink...

- I hate Zulli's trilogy.

- I hate Andy Kuhn's art.

- I Like Venus, still hate the show though...

- I rather have the PD movies then Rise, at last they got the guys personalities right.

- Archie are the best comics.

- I love the new interpertations of old characters and love the crossovers with different versions of Turtles.

- Love Fast Forward and despise the Ninja Tribunal season.

- Love the Turtle Saints and would love a full anime series of them.

- Leo is the most boring and bland of the boys (still love him though, just a little less then his brothers).

- I like Re-Shelled, not as good as the original but it's still a good game.

- Also think Out of the Shadows is one of the best games in the series, at least one of the top 3.

[sdp]

Tournament Fighters Genesis is more fun than Tournament Fighters SNES.

I actually beat the Genesis version a few times while I gave up on the SNES despite having a better roster / graphics / art style / etc. Tournament Fighters NES is just BS though.

[Prowler]

Tournament Fighters Genesis is more fun than Tournament Fighters SNES.

I actually beat the Genesis version a few times while I gave up on the SNES despite having a better roster / graphics / art style / etc. Tournament Fighters NES is just BS though.
Interesting. To me it's the complete opposite when it comes to both games regarding gameplay. I can barely do anything in the Mega Drive version. My biggest gripe with the SNES version is how the CPU seems to block pretty much everything, which makes the difficulty quite cheap at times. Other than that it's a pretty good Street Fighter clone and fighting game in general.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Archie are the best comics

I wouldn't call that an unpopular opinion.

Leo is the most boring and bland of the boys (still love him though, just a little less then his brothers).

He's supposed to be.

[DevilSpooky]

I wouldn't call that an unpopular opinion.

It's not? I only see people claiming that for either Mirage or IDW :tgrumble:

[Dejablue]

It's not? I only see people claiming that for either Mirage or IDW :tgrumble:

True. Everyone I speak to says Archie is overrated. So I also thought thinking Archie was the best comic was an unpopular opinion.

I don't think Archie is the best by the way but I do like it a lot.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I've never really liked the multi Colored Headbands. It doesn't really make sense in story

I don't like Jim Lawson's Art. I'm not a fan of Super Stylized Art

Having the Turtles never/rarely use their weapons or kill their enemies not only limits what you can do with them as characters and in combat, but it goes against their name

[Ninjinister]

There are literally zero characters in the franchise that couldn't be reinvented to be likable by the right team.

[oldmanwinters]

There are literally zero characters in the franchise that couldn't be reinvented to be likable by the right team.

I concur. Who would have thought "Pigeon Pete" would get such attention in recent years?

[sdp]

Peter Laird did a good job with the franchise in the 00's.

[KROW]

Fun!

the Image series is a great read
the underwater level in the NES game is not that goddamn hard

[Prowler]

Fun!

the Image series is a great read
the underwater level in the NES game is not that goddamn hard

As I've gotten older I'll have o agree. What comes next is way worse. But as a little kid that level was hell since I wasn't patient enough to be able to get past it.

I find level 3 a lot worse with that jump that lands you in the sewer water and takes you all the way back. The furthest I've gotten to was the airport level. I got crushed by the spikes as I climbed down.

[KROW]

As I've gotten older I'll have o agree. What comes next is way worse. But as a little kid that level was hell since I wasn't patient enough to be able to get past it.

I find level 3 a lot worse with that jump that lands you in the sewer water and takes you all the way back. The furthest I've gotten to was the airport level. I got crushed by the spikes as I climbed down.

Mecha Turtle would always give me the most trouble as a kid. Now I always seem to Game Over while looking for the damn Technodrome. Found it once, Game Over'd, never got there again.

[Sobble]

Idk how unpopular this is (PROBABLY POPULAR) but to me leo will always be leader (NOW HES MIKEY 2.0)

not hating on rise (DID I JUST STATE MY OPINION IT WAS LIKE ONE OF THE FIRST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD) but really Leo is better as leader instead of the jokester

I also feel like rise is just an origin story to the TMNT happening before everything else TMNT (EXCEPT FOR COMING OUT OF OUT SHELLS THAT ONE AND THAT ****** CHRISTMAS TMNT THING THEY MADE NEXT MUTATION AFTER EVERYTHING TMNT EXCEPT FOR WHAT I JUST MENTIONED)

[Zog The Magnificent]

The idea of accepting any new version of TMNT that comes around for what it is always seems to be an unpopular one. I have people telling me I have no taste if I like some of the newer stuff, or that the newer stuff is bringing down the brand, or that fans like me are the reason everything is "kiddy" or "mindless." I don't know. It just seems like we'd all be better off if we just took every new iteration for what it was.

Also, I think Out of the Shadows is the best TMNT movie.

[Sobble]

The idea of accepting any new version of TMNT that comes around for what it is always seems to be an unpopular one. I have people telling me I have no taste if I like some of the newer stuff, or that the newer stuff is bringing down the brand, or that fans like me are the reason everything is "kiddy" or "mindless." I don't know. It just seems like we'd all be better off if we just took every new iteration for what it was.

Wait is this fandom toxicity or not?

Also did you have a fight with any of those users because why not

[Wildcat]

I agree, nothing wrong with enjoying other versions even if they are more wacky. I like Rise.

NM aside I also liked Venus and would like to see her updated.

PD Movies aren’t great but not horrible. No I did not watch them in theaters.

Shredder’s transformers-like suit in TMNT 2014 was awesome. People would have totally accepted it if it was in a cartoon or better movie.

[snake]

Idk how unpopular this is (PROBABLY POPULAR) but to me leo will always be leader (NOW HES MIKEY 2.0)

not hating on rise (DID I JUST STATE MY OPINION IT WAS LIKE ONE OF THE FIRST REPLIES TO THIS THREAD) but really Leo is better as leader instead of the jokester

I also feel like rise is just an origin story to the TMNT happening before everything else TMNT (EXCEPT FOR COMING OUT OF OUT SHELLS THAT ONE AND THAT ****** CHRISTMAS TMNT THING THEY MADE NEXT MUTATION AFTER EVERYTHING TMNT EXCEPT FOR WHAT I JUST MENTIONED)

The way you type hurts my ears.

[Sobble]

The way you type hurts my ears.

Alright sorry hope i didn't make them bleed

[Andrew NDB]

Mirage is everything. Archie is pretty cool for what it was when it was. I dig some of the early most IDW stuff and the care put into everything since. The first movie is aight.

The rest? Harrible.

[MrPliggins]

I like Slash better than Zach as a 5th turtle.

I don't like to collect the action figures.

I like Jim Lawson's art best mainly in volume 1 of Mirage.

Not a fan of Dan Duncan's art.

Not a big fan of "newer" Kevin Eastman art, with thicker lines, marker, seems more rushed than his classic tmnt stuff. That said he does still produce a cool piece now and then.

I'm not interested in 2012 and Rise.

The 2007 movie is the most unwatchable one for me, even more than the Bay films.

I like the Mark Martin issues too.

[AT-Man]

Not a big fan of "newer" Kevin Eastman art, with thicker lines, marker, seems more rushed than his classic tmnt stuff. That said he does still produce a cool piece now and then.

This for me, too. It's just not pleasant to look at.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I like Slash better than Zach as a 5th turtle.

Preferring an actual mutant turtle instead of a wannabe one isn't hard, at least for me. I liked good guy Slash in Archie, who gave up his life for saving Earth from being destroyed by Malinga and Null.

[oldmanwinters]

I dig some of the early most IDW stuff and the care put into everything since.

You gave up once they switched from red to multi-color masks, didn't you? :tlol:

[Andrew NDB]

You gave up once they switched from red to multi-color masks, didn't you? :tlol:

I hung around for a couple of years after that... but when it became clear the Turtles weren't allowed to be ninja and most things were setup just to serve Fred Wolf stuff on the horizon, it seemed pretty clear none of that was for me.

[Dane E5R]

I can’t get into the IDW comics as much as I would like, because the dialogue is painful. Too many characters say “stinkin’.” Nobody friggin’ says stinkin’! And the reincarnation bit is an atrocity.

[Toxin45]

I hung around for a couple of years after that... but when it became clear the Turtles weren't allowed to be ninja and most things were setup just to serve Fred Wolf stuff on the horizon, it seemed pretty clear none of that was for me.

Again there are some deaths in the issues dude you just missed it it is just a mix of previous versions.

[Andrew NDB]

Again there are some deaths in the issues

Not by the Turtles' hands. Nick won't allow it. It really hamstringed the whole narrative back in the Dark Leo storyline and that's about when I left.

dude you just missed it it is just a mix of previous versions.

I know. I'm not really a fan of TMNT jambalaya.

[The-Shredder]

Peter Laird did a good job with the franchise in the 00's.

I agree in the sense that for fans of the more serious, Mirage oriented TMNT, we got a pretty great cartoon and a comic book revival from his ownership, even if Volume 4 and Tales Volume 2 didn't always hit the mark as some people put it. I wouldn't know since I only looked at the screenshots and summaries.

I was going to disagree at the same time and say that it failed to maintain a consistent popularity throughout the decade because of the network and time slot the 4Kids show was on, but looking back, that isn't exactly the case. You could get merchandise almost everywhere, toys were featured in holiday guides, there were fast food toys, the 4Kids show managed to get on Cartoon Network with Teen Titans for a brief time, TMNT was frequently involved with charity events, and the 25th anniversary was pretty big. Not bad for an independent comic book publisher and an anime dubbing company. It certainly did better than He-Man. For 80s franchises, Transformers takes the crown for a successful comeback though.

[Sharman]

Mirage is everything. Archie is pretty cool for what it was when it was. I dig some of the early most IDW stuff and the care put into everything since. The first movie is aight.

The rest? Harrible.

I have no idea what "aight" is but I pretty much concur with all of this. Whilst I can enjoy something out of (nearly) all TMNT variations the original Mirage turtles reign supreme for me.

[Powder]

-The live-action musical video stuff like We Wish You A Turtles Christmas has a certain charm. Sure, they're borderline insulting parodies & a prime example of shameless money milking, but they're kitschy, uber 90's, & go to show just how big the turtles were. Literal rock stars. It's fun.

-The Next Mutation is dope. It's mired by Venus being a Mary-Sue & the butt of every joke, as well as the constant, unnecessary, cartoon sound effects, but is otherwise absolutely solid. Great props, some very interesting plots/concepts, cool original characters, it deserves to be looked at with a more objective eye. Or, well, try to look past Venus & the SFX, anyway, & you'll find an enjoyable time.

-Rise Of The TMNT is valid, & very entertaining. It's full of fresh ideas, funny jokes, & makes everything feel new. The animation & aesthetic is incredible. I get why it rubs some people the wrong way, but most folks just aren't giving it the proper time of day. It's super refreshing to see an iteration that doesn't rely on Fred Wolfisms & Remember This? but instead plants a new flag. The 'new' personality types & stuff aren't entirely new but rather are obscure & often unexplored facets of the turtles that were previously only barely touched upon. Most things that people consider to be unnecessary or insulting changes had precedents set for them in past versions.

-Japan's take on TMNT will forever be some of the raddest of all time. Fight me. Turtle Saint, 'nuff said.

-All this Batman crossover stuff is wack. It doesn't make sense, the characters don't mesh, the execution has been poor. It comes off to me like glorified fan-fiction, just schoolyard wish fulfillment for manchild casuals. I especially hate that they're now having it crossover with Mirage. I don't think Pete would've signed off on such a thing, & for that reason, I wish he'd have been asked for his blessing before proceeding. That said, the art by Freddie Williams III is God-tier & I wish they'd put him to better use. I fully support him, he's an amazing asset to the TMNT brand.

-Raphael, & Michelangelo, the seemingly two most popular turtles, ain't so great. They always feel pretty one-dimensional to me. One's always throwing a temper tantrum, the other is an idiot. That's hyperbole, of course, but yeah... A lot of people who favor them, seem to do so for shallow purposes. Bleh. I love Rise Raph & Image Mike the most because they deviate from these molds & make more well rounded characters out of them.

-4kids was at its best when it did its own thing. The original concepts/plots, as well as the Ninja Tribunal & Fast Forward seasons, far exceeded their watered down Mirage adaptions. Kinda wish it was wholly unique, but with Pete still overseeing things, of course.

-Archie is kind of a chore to get through. At times it is preachy and/or pretentious. Ironically, it was a capitalist's wet dream yet often spoke to the ills of capitalism. :tlol: At least it was printed on recycled paper. I think. Don't mean to bash it, I like it plenty, but I never saw it in the same light many others do, that it's like this big amazing thing.

-Contrary to the consensus, IDW's TMNT is not perfect. It doesn't pretend to be, of course, but a lot of people act as if it can do no wrong. The dialogue in the main run is often very cringe-worthy, & unrealistic. Don't dare pull some Crisler's Law BS on me now. IDW, like 4kids, to me, does a great job on the original idea front, with many of the recycled parts being iffy. As far as I am concerned, a lot of the goofier Fred Wolf stuff like Technodromes, Neutrinos, etc, has no place in a gritty comic book world where people are being killed & whatnot. & I don't really wanna see things that were inherently goofy, made out to be bad-ass or palatable to an adult audience, either.

-Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion across the board but people seem to sometimes disagree with me on this. April shouldn't be much more than just a link to the outside world. No TV news reporting, no ninja mastery, no technological expertise, just a regular college age chick who fills a sisterly role & connects the turtles with human life. I'm tired of her being similarly or equally competent in battle, or a damsel in distress. Neither of these were how she was intended to be. Mirage or bust. Well, 4kids nailed it, mostly, but she was based on Mirage. IDW has done a decent job, but she's quickly become a jack of all trades herself. At least she hasn't picked up a sword, yet...

-TMNT 3 is a decent movie. It's got inferior costumes, stale villains, not enough action/turtle time, & a childish tone, but if you can get past that, there's a fantastic story with a lot of heart & many memorable moments. + it's loosely based on some Mirage stuff, incidental or otherwise. Be nice to it, it tried its best.

-Platinum Dunes did the single worst iteration of TMNT in history.

-Playmates needs to be given the boot, or told to significantly step it up.

-Mirage > Everything else

-Leonardo is the best turtle. He's got a little of all his brothers in him, making him the most well rounded, IMO.

-Bebop & Rocksteady, while amusing & iconic in their debut iteration, should have freakin' remained there. The same could be said for a lot of Fred Wolf stuff. Let's just say, on a whole, everyone needs to stop being beholden to that God damned cartoon. It was great in its own way, it broke ground, it set trends, it did a lot for the property, but for Heavens sake, move on. It's viewed through rose colored lenses, to be sure. There's plenty wrong with it.

-We need change, badly. While I do think a new live action film series should properly adapt Mirage, other new, original takes, would be wonderful. Rise is a great start, but lets push it even further. 2012, IDW, they're excellent, but as Andrew likes to say, they're TMNT Jumbalaya. Taking a bunch of old ingredients & mixing them together with some new spices. Tried & true, quality, sure, but that formula can only work so many ways. When I compare Rise to Batman VS TMNT, the former glows, the latter blows. & that is so mind boggling to me, because I always championed "dark", back-to-basics TMNT, but it's honestly just so stale at this point. Let's see some totally out of left field stuff. Go bold. New origins, new designs, new characters, new settings. It can be done without taking the heart & soul out, I'm sure of it. Rise has proved that, others can too, now.

-TMNT works best as a period piece. They are HELLA a product of their time, & I think work best in that setting. I'd be very happy if a new movie took place in the early 80's or 90's. Go all out with the funky/neon aesthetics & punk/hip-hop flavor.

-Vol. 3 (Image comics) is incredible. Try to get past the mutilation & Image character crossovers, if you are bothered by them, I promise you it's so worth it. The amount of grit & personality, oh man. It was written to be a continuation of Mirage, & it shows. There's mob violence, giant monsters, cross-country travel, kidnapping, Foot Clan & Triceraton stuff, what more could you need? & that art! Fosco is stellar. It pains me that people don't give it a chance. Go pick up the colored reprints! This series has the single best Michelangelo to date.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Leonardo is the best turtle. He's got a little of all his brothers in him, making him the most well rounded, IMO.

Leonardo being the most skilled ninja is a fact, not an opinion. But we still have different favourite turtles, for various reasons.

[The-Shredder]

-Not sure if this is an unpopular opinion across the board but people seem to sometimes disagree with me on this. April shouldn't be much more than just a link to the outside world. No TV news reporting, no ninja mastery, no technological expertise, just a regular college age chick who fills a sisterly role & connects the turtles with human life. I'm tired of her being similarly or equally competent in battle, or a damsel in distress. Neither of these were how she was intended to be. Mirage or bust. Well, 4kids nailed it, mostly, but she was based on Mirage. IDW has done a decent job, but she's quickly become a jack of all trades herself. At least she hasn't picked up a sword, yet...


I agree. I like it best when April and Casey (okay, maybe not exactly Casey) are average people and our window into the Turtles' and Splinter's world. I don't mind if April eventually develops combat skills. It's only inevitable when you're spending so much time with ninjas and a vigilante. One of the big reasons why I didn't like the 2012 show as much is because it felt too crowded with so many mutants everywhere. The Turtles and Splinter are an anomaly in an ordinary world. Aside from maybe a few others, no one like them really exists. Making April a mutant hybrid with supernatural powers and filling the city with mutants makes the Turtles less special and takes away the opportunity to explore what it feels like to not be "normal" like everybody else.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

One of the big reasons why I didn't like the 2012 show as much is because it felt too crowded with so many mutants everywhere.

Earth had 5 milliards of Human inhabitants in 1987, the same year the Fred Wolf Series debuted, not to mention all ordinary animals. So it doesn't make the turtles less special to have anything between 10–100 mutants, or even some characters like Al Falqa, Kathmandu and Ninjara. Just make sure they all have to hide from Humans. Utroms (or Kraang?) residing on Earth shall also hide from Humans, of course.

So I think you can throw in some more mutants than just the turtles and Splinter or even Leatherhead, as long as you don't throw in a lot of mutants, just because it's a lot of mutants.

[pferreira]

- The second movie is underrated

- I hate the art styles of the 2012 and Rise series

- IDW is overrated, I just don't see the point of it

- The 2003 game I thought was the best of that three and was pretty solid

- The FW series is underrated and does some interesting things that it'll never be praised for

[Skinrash]

I only like the first season of the '87 show and various select later episodes.

Turning '87 Baxter into a fly was a bad idea that made him annoying and dumb.

Wasn't to keen on the animated/action figure design of Scumbug, the Archie comics one was better as it looked creepier and bore a closer resemblance to a cockroach.

The last act of Secret of the ooze isn't very good. Random Vanilla Ice dance number, Shredder's defeat was incredibly anticlimactic and he barely got any screentime as a mutant. And why did his costume mutate as well? Decent movie aside from that though.

I think Ninjara is a great character.

[BYWInsaniac]

- I don't like 2k3 (Same as it Never Was and Insane in the Membrane both live up to their reputations, though, and I love Agent Bishop).

- I think Secret of the Ooze is bad (and I've literally never liked Tokka and Rahzar, even as a 5 year old).

- I think 2007 is great. The Raph/Leo fight is sick as hell, and that scene where Raph comes back and tells Splinter that Leo was captured is fantastic.

- I think Mutant Apocalypse is one of the best stories in 2012.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The 1987 cartoon is the best version of tmnt, period.

[IndigoErth]

I genuinely don't mind them wearing pants, it's kind of adorable; and best example is Leo in 2016 with those black pants that look quite fine on him. :P

'Course I always thought them wearing stuff to disguise themselves with in any version was cute anyhow.

If I buy anything else from 'Rise' it will inevitably be figure variants of that nature, IF they manage to make them cute.

[80gmrp]

Unpopular opinions of my own:

1. 2003 was the best series to me, and 2012 wasn't excessively far behind

2. I'm a huge fan of ally!Leatherhead, and would really like to see more of him.

3. One reason why I love 2003 so much over some other iterations is because of how relatively-adult-oriented it was. Not to say there weren't any kiddy moments, of course, but I felt it was a good balance for me.

4. I even enjoy the Konami games based on 2003, at least from what I've played so far.

[Powder]

None of those are unpopular opinions. :lol:

[80gmrp]

None of those are unpopular opinions. :lol:

Yeah, looking back at it now, I don’t have hard evidence for most of them being unpopular, even if I don’t talk about the Konami games much anyway: sorry for my confusion.

Though, for #2, maybe I should clarify my position further: I feel so strongly about it that, while I don’t care if he’s a main character or not, if it were up to me, he wouldn’t be an antagonist at all. The extent I feel this opinion I am convinced puts me in a minority, even if the opinion itself might be mainstream.

[Powder]

Though, for #2, maybe I should clarify my position further: I feel so strongly about it that, while I don’t care if he’s a main character or not, if it were up to me, he wouldn’t be an antagonist at all. The extent I feel this opinion I am convinced puts me in a minority, even if the opinion itself might be mainstream.

I dunno. I think most, if not all, Mirage/4kids/2012 fans would agree... & that's a sizable demo.

[CyberCubed]

The TMNT franchise mirrors the Pokemon franchise exactly. They were huge childhood fads for their respective generations, and the first mainstream incarnation of it, the original 80's cartoon for TMNT, and Kanto the 1st generation of Pokemon and its characters...basically overshadows everything that came after it, much to the annoyance of people who kept up with both franchises and knows about tons of other iterations, characters, and generations. The fact that you can't talk about TMNT with casuals due to their only knowledge being the original show, pizza and cowabunga, and you can't talk about pokemon to most people without their original 151 pokemon or Misty/Brock nonsense, is the same deal.

I'd also wager to say Shredder/Bebop/Rocksteady in the original cartoon sort of mirror Team Rocket, where they're the trio of bumbling villains who fail in every episode to get "blasted off," or in the OT case...run into a portal or module.

It's kinda sad, given both franchises have now gone on 20+ and 30+ years respectively, and casuals only care about...the very beginning.

[Prowler]

The TMNT franchise mirrors the Pokemon franchise exactly. They were huge childhood fads for their respective generations, and the first mainstream incarnation of it, the original 80's cartoon for TMNT, and Kanto the 1st generation of Pokemon and its characters...basically overshadows everything that came after it, much to the annoyance of people who kept up with both franchises and knows about tons of other iterations, characters, and generations. The fact that you can't talk about TMNT with casuals due to their only knowledge being the original show, pizza and cowabunga, and you can't talk about pokemon to most people without their original 151 pokemon or Misty/Brock nonsense, is the same deal.

I'd also wager to say Shredder/Bebop/Rocksteady in the original cartoon sort of mirror Team Rocket, where they're the trio of bumbling villains who fail in every episode to get "blasted off," or in the OT case...run into a portal or module.

It's kinda sad, given both franchises have now gone on 20+ and 30+ years respectively, and casuals only care about...the very beginning.

Except Pokémon has never stopped being a very profitable and popular franchise. It might have peaked in its first 3 years or so, but new Pokémon games kept being the highest selling games of their respective systems. And the Pokémon anime never ended or got cancelled.

I've talked to people born in the mid-late 90s who grew up with Diamond/Pearl and/or Black/White instead of the first 3 gens, and they told me that Pokémon was pretty big when they were kids back in 2006-2010. Pokémon never had a dead period like the Turtles did and it's arguably Nintendo«s most profitable franchise ever, even above Mario.

Oh and FW is not the very beginning of TMNT. That's Mirage. ;)

I'd say a similar case to FW would be Street Fighter. Street Fighter 2 is the game everyone knows and there's a reason why Capcom still milks it over 20 years later. SF1 sucked ass so who cares, SF Alpha was a good series but not nearly as popular as SF. No wonder that in Alpha 3 they brought back all of the SF2 characters that were missing in the previous two games. The EX series wasn't very popular either nor was SF3. In the definitive version of SF3, Third Strike, they brought Chun-Li back. Besides her there were only Ryu, Ken and Akuma from previous games. SF3 was a great game but a commercial failure. SF4 revived the SF series, but still not as big as SF2 was and has every single SF2 character there for a reason as well. Not sure how SF5 has been doing but I hear a lot of criticisms about it.

SF2 is simply the most successful version of the series by far and the one where Chun-Li, Cammy, Blanka, Akuma, Guile, M. Bison, Dhalsim, Vega, Balrog, Zangief, etc. all made their debuts. Most people have no idea who characters such as Sodom, Adon, Charlie Nash,Yun, Remy, Ibuki, Elena, Dudley, etc. are. When you mention Street Fighter they'll think of the others I mentioned above. Guile has missed more SF games than the ones he's been in, yet he's the most popular male character after Ryu and Ken and arguably viewed as the biggest and most important one after them.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I think he meant the beginning in terms of mainstream media, like the original cartoon. TMNT didn't really take off until the OT began, and most aren't even aware of the Mirage comic. Pokemon was fairly similar, with the anime being what really launched the franchise into worldwide icon status, though the game was already popular in some circles.

[Garfield]

I like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III, I think the movie has a lot of heart. And I think people tend to exaggerate how bad the costumes are. They are a step or two down from than the original and Ninja turtles II but I think they are presentable enough.

I only watched a couple of episodes of Rise of the TMNT. But I kind of liked it. I thought it was pretty funny. And it was an entertaining easy watch. I also think the format of each episode being 10 min short works.

It's been a while since I have seen Next Mutation But I didn't hate Venus. I don't particularly love the character but I don't have this strong disdain for her like a lot of people seem to have. Also I remember kind of liking Next Mutation.

In the (2014) Ninja Turtles movie.... looking back, probably would have been a more cohesive and all around better movie if they just stuck with the idea of the turtles being aliens and Eric Sachs being the Shredder. I know there would have been an uproar regardless but I wish they would have just gone with their vision. I know its easy for me to say as an outsider not in that industry.

I liked Meagan Fox's April. I think she did a good job.

I'll post more later.

[Wesley]

I like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles III, I think the movie has a lot of heart. And I think people tend to exaggerate how bad the costumes are. They are a step or two down from than the original and Ninja turtles II but I think they are presentable enough.

I only watched a couple of episodes of Rise of the TMNT. But I kind of liked it. I thought it was pretty funny. And it was an entertaining easy watch. I also think the format of each episode being 10 min short works.

It's been a while since I have seen Next Mutation But I didn't hate Venus. I don't particularly love the character but I don't have this strong disdain for her like a lot of people seem to have. Also I remember kind of liking Next Mutation.

In the (2014) Ninja Turtles movie.... looking back, probably would have been a more cohesive and all around better movie if they just stuck with the idea of the turtles being aliens and Eric Sachs being the Shredder. I know there would have been an uproar regardless but I wish they would have just gone with their vision. I know its easy for me to say as an outsider not in that industry.

I liked Meagan Fox's April. I think she did a good job.

I'll post more later.

I agree with everything you posted, Garfield.

[miru]

The Jhanna story from Mirage was good. I really like some of those filler pieces.

[pferreira]

Except Pokémon has never stopped being a very profitable and popular franchise. It might have peaked in its first 3 years or so, but new Pokémon games kept being the highest selling games of their respective systems. And the Pokémon anime never ended or got cancelled.
Pokemon unlike TMNT is a tie-in merchandise machine. There's a whole company dedicated to making decisions about just Pokemon. They have more money and resources to spend on their property than Mirage did back when.

[SimplySatire]

- 2003 was better than the 2012. 2012 was cringey and aimed at small children, while the 2003 treated the audience like they were older. Even when I was 10, I liked knowing the show treated me like a capable, smart child. 2012 was talking down to the audience if anything. Also, in the 2012 Mikey's a joke (they seriously got lost with his character), Leo's EVERYTHING and then some, Raph is emo as ****, and Donnie is APRITELLO APRITELLO and that ends it there for his character development. The 2003 don actually went through some stuff and grew, 2003 Mike was somewhat mature at the end of the series and seemed to have made peace with both being goofy and fun-loving and being mature and understanding. He was cocky and conceited for a few episodes, but every teenager goes through that phase.

- 2018 is actually better than the 2012 imo. At least there is nice animation and a fun, carefree vibe.

- I generally just don't like 2012. It could've been something great, but they rushed everything. The art is...weird and really not cohesive to the audience they're aiming at. It's like the show was written for 8 year olds, graphically designed for 13 year olds, and "supposed" to be mature enough for adults alike to watch. The only one that hit that mark was 2003. 2018 makes you lose yourself and just let go and laugh for a little. The IDW comic is a master piece in itself imo. But the 2012 is just 'meh' compared to everything else. I'm really glad they finally cancelled it.

- 2012 Mikey sounds like a stoner and acts like a small child instead of a 15/16 year old; even by the end of the show.

- Splinter is the only enjoyable character on the 2012's end.

- Don't get me started with teen April- at least the 2018 April is in college.

- Raph gives me this 'spoiled but wanting to be emo and the "not like other guys" type' vibe. I just really hate how they made him an asshole. He doesn't even have psychopathic tendencies like the Mirage comics did (which would at least make his repetition understandable). His anger struggle is this; get angry, hurt/explode at family, don't learn a damn thing, REPEAT. Meanwhile all the other incarnations are at least trying to change it. 2003 Raph even took up knitting!

- People idolize this show only because it came out right in the golden years of social media and the internet.

*takes a breath*

Kk I'm done :lol:

[SimplySatire]

- 2003 was better than the 2012. 2012 was cringey and aimed at small children, while the 2003 treated the audience like they were older. Even when I was 10, I liked knowing the show treated me like a capable, smart child. 2012 was talking down to the audience if anything. Also, in the 2012 Mikey's a joke (they seriously got lost with his character), Leo's EVERYTHING and then some, Raph is emo as ****, and Donnie is APRITELLO APRITELLO and that ends it there for his character development. The 2003 don actually went through some stuff and grew, 2003 Mike was somewhat mature at the end of the series and seemed to have made peace with both being goofy and fun-loving and being mature and understanding. He was cocky and conceited for a few episodes, but every teenager goes through that phase.

- 2018 is actually better than the 2012 imo. At least there is nice animation and a fun, carefree vibe.

- I generally just don't like 2012. It could've been something great, but they rushed everything. The art is...weird and really not cohesive to the audience they're aiming at. It's like the show was written for 8 year olds, graphically designed for 13 year olds, and "supposed" to be mature enough for adults alike to watch. The only one that hit that mark was 2003. 2018 makes you lose yourself and just let go and laugh for a little. The IDW comic is a master piece in itself imo. But the 2012 is just 'meh' compared to everything else. I'm really glad they finally cancelled it.

- 2012 Mikey sounds like a stoner and acts like a small child instead of a 15/16 year old; even by the end of the show.

- Splinter is the only enjoyable character on the 2012's end.

- Don't get me started with teen April- at least the 2018 April is in college.

- Raph gives me this 'spoiled but wanting to be emo and the "not like other guys" type' vibe. I just really hate how they made him an asshole. He doesn't even have psychopathic tendencies like the Mirage comics did (which would at least make his repetition understandable). His anger struggle is this; get angry, hurt/explode at family, don't learn a damn thing, REPEAT. Meanwhile all the other incarnations are at least trying to change it. 2003 Raph even took up knitting!

- People idolize this show only because it came out right in the golden years of social media and the internet.

*takes a breath*

Kk I'm done :lol:

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I enjoy the Arcade version of Turtles in Time more than the SNES version. I always felt the animation, the voice clips, soundtrack, and the ability to have four players more exciting. I didn't mind no Rocksteady or Bebop as it was actually refreshing. As much as I enjoy the console counterpart, it is way too easy, even on hard difficulty. The ending is admittedly more satisfying and the soundtrack is still awesome in it's own right but that's pretty much it.

I really dislike what they're doing to Mikey with each new iteration. In the Nick toon, he was a absent-minded buffoon, the less said on PD, and while I do think he's handled a bit better in Rise, he's kinda too excitable and bubbly. And because Leo is more of the witty guy, Mike is sort of bland in comparison which is something I thought I'd never say about the turtle.

TMNT 3 is a guilty pleasure. It's my least favorite of the original trilogy but there were still some really good moments sandwiched in with the not-so-good moments. Plus the action scenes are handled better than the second film.

I like Adam Carol more than Corey Feldman as Donnie. Feldman made him sound like he was stoned which is of place for the genius character. I also enjoyed Mitchell Whitfield's take on the character.

It's not an unpopular opinion here but I'm getting irksome by the callbacks and pandering to the FW cartoon. It had it's time.

-Rise is genuinely good

-The OT- for the most part- is unwatchable

I'm curious to know why some users here like Rise but dislike the OT.

[Autbot_Benz]

- 2003 was better than the 2012. 2012 was cringey and aimed at small children, while the 2003 treated the audience like they were older. Even when I was 10, I liked knowing the show treated me like a capable, smart child. 2012 was talking down to the audience if anything. Also, in the 2012 Mikey's a joke (they seriously got lost with his character), Leo's EVERYTHING and then some, Raph is emo as ****, and Donnie is APRITELLO APRITELLO and that ends it there for his character development. The 2003 don actually went through some stuff and grew, 2003 Mike was somewhat mature at the end of the series and seemed to have made peace with both being goofy and fun-loving and being mature and understanding. He was cocky and conceited for a few episodes, but every teenager goes through that phase.

- 2018 is actually better than the 2012 imo. At least there is nice animation and a fun, carefree vibe.

- I generally just don't like 2012. It could've been something great, but they rushed everything. The art is...weird and really not cohesive to the audience they're aiming at. It's like the show was written for 8 year olds, graphically designed for 13 year olds, and "supposed" to be mature enough for adults alike to watch. The only one that hit that mark was 2003. 2018 makes you lose yourself and just let go and laugh for a little. The IDW comic is a master piece in itself imo. But the 2012 is just 'meh' compared to everything else. I'm really glad they finally cancelled it.

- 2012 Mikey sounds like a stoner and acts like a small child instead of a 15/16 year old; even by the end of the show.

- Splinter is the only enjoyable character on the 2012's end.

- Don't get me started with teen April- at least the 2018 April is in college.

- Raph gives me this 'spoiled but wanting to be emo and the "not like other guys" type' vibe. I just really hate how they made him an asshole. He doesn't even have psychopathic tendencies like the Mirage comics did (which would at least make his repetition understandable). His anger struggle is this; get angry, hurt/explode at family, don't learn a damn thing, REPEAT. Meanwhile all the other incarnations are at least trying to change it. 2003 Raph even took up knitting!

- People idolize this show only because it came out right in the golden years of social media and the internet.

*takes a breath*

Kk I'm done :lol:

https://i.imgur.com/OhbmzXB.gif

Saying 2012 was aimed as small children is laughable.2012 was aimed at the older fans. Rise is aimed at the small children and it shows its a bigger joke than the Fred Wolf Turtles were.

[Vegita-San]

2003 is the best the franchise has to offer. With the 2007 movie being a close second.

2012 is FAR from as good as people claim it to be. it had alot of potential, but alot of wasted potential.

Volume 4 is not as bad as people would like to think, compared to Image turtles.

[80gmrp]

2003 is the best the franchise has to offer. With the 2007 movie being a close second.

2012 is FAR from as good as people claim it to be. it had alot of potential, but alot of wasted potential.

Volume 4 is not as bad as people would like to think, compared to Image turtles.

Agreed about 2003, though I honestly don't think that 2012 was that bad, either.

On a lighter note, I see this is my 100th post.

[Candy Kappa]

I guess I've already displayed a unpopular opinion in another thread, but since this thread is more relevant.

I do not care for a full-armored Shredder so I don't like the 2003 design and frankly all of the 2k3 Shredder designs are bad. For me, a Shredder design means 'less is more'. My second favorite Shredder design after original Mirage is IDW, where they kept it simple, so simple he usually lacks leg blades and got a nifty scarf.

Also not a fan of over-use of blades on his gauntlets and shoulder plates or making them unwieldly long, like Mutants in Manhattan is a good example on how wrong IDW could have looked or SotO Super Shredder and BayMNT Shredder with blades galore. 2012 Shredder fixed the edgy desire to have long wolverine-esque blades by at least having them be retractable

[Utrommaniac]

But let's remember...there's such a thing as "too much less"...or we'll get Shirtless Joe over here

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f6/d7/87/f6d787893a59d38469b6782a13901bea.png

I'm going to agree on the "excess of spikes and armor" though.

[Mr Salk]

Their colored masks don't hide their identities...they reveal them.

Hmmm...

[Candy Kappa]

But let's remember...there's such a thing as "too much less"...or we'll get Shirtless Joe over here

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f6/d7/87/f6d787893a59d38469b6782a13901bea.png

I'm going to agree on the "excess of spikes and armor" though.

If I was that ripped I'd be topless 24/7 as well :lol:

[slingtheory]

• i prefer the multi colored bandannas over the all red ones

•I think oots is the best tmnt game of modern times and the best game overall since turtles in time

•I didn't really mind venus as a concept just didn't like that she wasnt the turtles sister

•2k3 mikey is for the most part my favorite characterization for the character. Just a little more focus on his creativity and compassion and he would've been perfect.

•2012 put more focus on the ninja in ninja turtles than any other animated series and I give it props for that.

•tmnt 3 wasn't that bad it just suffered from being released as the fad was coming to an end.

•idw's origin is my favorite version of the origin. It ties everything together so well and is a great blend of ninja treachery, science fiction and mysticism.

•i don't mind the reintroduction/ reimagining of characters and elements from previous versions if it's done well and adds something to the story and universe. I see it more as an appreciation of history than pandering.

•it bugs me when people rage over the idea of a turtles game not having couch co op when the reality is that limits the type of game you can make. Unless they're gonna keep making side scollers or smash bros knock offs we gotta let that go.

[Utrommaniac]

If I was that ripped I'd be topless 24/7 as well :lol:

I always like to think that an episode based around that toy would just have been Krang shoving him out for something on laundry day.



I for one will remain in my opinion that there's nothing wrong with giving the aliens a little more world building. It's okay to make the Utroms less mysterious. It's okay to take the Triceratons beyond war mongers from space. It's okay to take the Neutrinos beyond space beatniks.

Just...anything to keep this from happening in any of the aliens, because that's kinda what we got
isdaYjET9cg

I'm not asking for a full Tolkien-like explanation for every single detail, but a little more detail would be nice.

[DarkFell]

But let's remember...there's such a thing as "too much less"...or we'll get Shirtless Joe over here

[url]https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f6/d7/87/f6d787893a59d38469b6782a13901bea.png
What? Oroku thought that he was hot. Maybe he wanted to expose some skin for a certain Channel Six ginger reporter figurine.

But yeah - I had a Shredder figure and even I thought that a 'shirtless Shredder' figure was odd.

Oh, Playmates.

[Garfield]

Their colored masks don't hide their identities...they reveal them.

Hmmm...

:lol: I think them being giant talking turtles walking on two legs, does more to reveal their identities than masks, colored or not. :P


Here are some more unpopular opinions.

I prefer Slash to just be evil. And I mean it in the most basic none complex sense. Just a twisted image and antithesis to the Ninja Turtles. The Bizarro to their Superman.

In some ways I enjoy the Fred Wolf cartoon more now than when I was kid. Its because as I got older I understand parody more. I like the humor. I like the quirky silly world the live in. Its very funny to me.

I don't love the Original Theme song of the Fred Wolf toon like a lot of people do. I mean, I don't really hate it, but its a little too cheesy to me.

While I'm on theme songs, I don't mind the original theme for the 2003 series. I remember a lot of people raging on it, maybe not so much on this forum but on some of the others, I didn't think it was that bad.

I like angst ridden Leo from the later seasons of the 2003 series, that was a good journey for that character. A little shocked that so many people didn't like it. I thought it was among the most compelling stuff in the 2003 series

I'll post more later...

[Wesley]

:lol: I think them being giant talking turtles walking on two legs, does more to reveal their identities than masks, colored or not. :P


Here are some more unpopular opinions.

I prefer Slash to just be evil. And I mean it in the most basic none complex sense. Just a twisted image and antithesis to the Ninja Turtles. The Bizarro to their Superman.

In some ways I enjoy the Fred Wolf cartoon more now than when I was kid. Its because as I got older I understand parody more. I like the humor. I like the quirky silly world the live in. Its very funny to me.

I don't love the Original Theme song of the Fred Wolf toon like a lot of people do. I mean, I don't really hate it, but its a little too cheesy to me.

While I'm on theme songs, I don't mind the original theme for the 2003 series. I remember a lot of people raging on it, maybe not so much on this forum but on some of the others, I didn't think it was that bad.

I like angst ridden Leo from the later seasons of the 2003 series, that was a good journey for that character. A little shocked that so many people didn't like it. I thought it was among the most compelling stuff in the 2003 series

I'll post more later...

Agree with most of this.

[Garfield]

One of these days Wesley, I'm going to post a list of things and you wont agree with any of it. And I'll feel like I really let you down. :oops:

:lol::P

[pferreira]

I like Adam Carol more than Corey Feldman as Donnie. Feldman made him sound like he was stoned which is of place for the genius character.Yeah I agree there. While I find Feldman humorous in the role Adam Carl fit the character better.

But yeah - I had a Shredder figure and even I thought that a 'shirtless Shredder' figure was odd.

Oh, Playmates.Look the dude obviously felt he didn't need clothes okay? :lol:

One of these days Wesley, I'm going to post a list of things and you wont agree with any of it. And I'll feel like I really let you down. :oops:

:lol::Phttps://thumbs.gfycat.com/IncredibleOrganicBug-size_restricted.gif

[DarkFell]

Look the dude obviously felt he didn't need clothes okay? :lol:
It still doesn't excuse the fact that he received a half-a** paint job. >;[

At least the figures looked like they were painted better as the toy production continued, but even some of the other toy choices that were presented to us then-younger dromers, left some of us saying "...WTF?"

[CyberCubed]

Look at this thread from ResetEra where people are debating Splinter's origin being a pet rat or a human Hamato Yoshi before mutation was better. They're also complaining about the reincarnation aspect from IDW:

https://www.resetera.com/threads/tmnt-master-splinter-a-former-rat-or-a-former-human.128827/

[IndigoErth]

Given that it was the original cartoon that got it a large fan base and remains what many are most familiar with, I'm kind of surprised that Yoshi turned Splinter is not the most popular choice in that poll. Maybe many of them saw the movie more than they watched the cartoon.

Also I never understood why he's inside of a giant wooden column that he then smashes
Me to, poster #4. Was wondering that just recently.

[Candy Kappa]

That's cause all Splinters regardless of origin knows what's cool and fashionable, and smashing your way out of a wooden column is cool

[Danetello]

1991 TMNT II is better than the first, but should've acknowledged the "cosmic" part instead of going "global".

TMNT is sci-fi, always has been sci-fi from the start (they are made from alien ooze and they go to space by issue 5 for god sake!), and it's where it works best.

2016 SotO was a decent movie, and should've been the live action reboot's first movie. Shame the first movie led to the second one flopping. If we'd started with what we got for 2, we'd have a decent movie trilogy by now.

The Rat King, in any incarnation, is the worst character ever created. I can't stand him. It was made worse in the 2012 series because of Jeffrey Combs - I find his voice the most irritating voice I have ever heard.

[Prowler]

I remembered now...

The Punk Frogs suck: On paper, they seemed like a GREAT idea, but the execution was poor. They all seemed to essentially have the same personality and they were dumb and gullible.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I remembered now...

The Punk Frogs suck: On paper, they seemed like a GREAT idea, but the execution was poor. They all seemed to essentially have the same personality and they were dumb and gullible.

To this day, I still can't tell them apart.

They literally all have the same desgins and the same voices.

[Prowler]

To this day, I still can't tell them apart.

They literally all have the same desgins and the same voices.

Exactly. Tbh I have no idea who voiced them nor have I googled it ever.

Their weapons were kinda cool, though.

[CyberCubed]

The Nick 2012 redesigns of them were perfect

[MikeandRaph87]

I remembered now...

The Punk Frogs suck: On paper, they seemed like a GREAT idea, but the execution was poor. They all seemed to essentially have the same personality and they were dumb and gullible.

They have always been favorites of mine. They need to differentiate the characters to make them more unique. Nick just picked one out and took away the connection of the four. IDW can do that when there is space.

[pferreira]

To this day, I still can't tell them apart.

They literally all have the same desgins and the same voices.I like the Punk Frogs, just wish they were utilised better after their first episode.

[Andrew NDB]

1991 TMNT II is better than the first

https://media1.tenor.com/images/80d9a988f97f2db02eb0433444bc5bd4/tenor.gif?itemid=5100280

[Shred87]

Ill put this here instead of starting a new thread... its kind of a question/opinion i always had about the 1990 movie..

To me the Shredders existence never really made sense.... as a kid i just accepted it but what exactly is his role/purpose? Just to run a criminal enterprise with kids? He’s essentially just a gangster with spikes?? The ninja angle seems a bit aggressive to steal a couple VCR’s.... I don’t know, just never made sense to me...

He also seems a little too accepting to the fact giant turtles/rat exist.... I don’t know...takes away from the movie for me

[FredWolfLeonardo]

In my opinion, the 1st season of the Original Cartoon is very overrated, relative to the remaining seasons.

There seem to be many tmnt fans who think that the 1st season of the OT was the gold standard and after it, the show went seriously downhill.

I on the other hand, think that while the five-episode pilot was great, several elements in seasons 2 and 3 were handled much better (such as the comedy (especially around the villains), fleshing out the turtles personalities more, and the general fun factor).

Even when it comes to the animation, while many of the action scenes in season 1 do look gorgeous, especially when considering the time period, it wasn't like there were any well animated episodes in the following seasons (Turtles on Trial, Enter the Fly and many others come to mind).

While I love the first season, I don't think the Original Cartoon lost its flare afterwards.
Seasons 2 and 3 were also great, and it was only sometime during season 4 that the show began to go downhill imo (it began improving once again in season 5 though).

[neatoman]

In my opinion, the 1st season of the Original Cartoon is very overrated, relative to the remaining seasons.

There seem to be many tmnt fans who think that the 1st season of the OT was the gold standard and after it, the show went seriously downhill.

I on the other hand, think that while the five-episode pilot was great, several elements in seasons 2 and 3 were handled much better (such as the comedy (especially around the villains), fleshing out the turtles personalities more, and the general fun factor).

Even when it comes to the animation, while many of the action scenes in season 1 do look gorgeous, especially when considering the time period, it wasn't like there were any well animated episodes in the following seasons (Turtles on Trial, Enter the Fly and many others come to mind).

While I love the first season, I don't think the Original Cartoon lost its flare afterwards.
Seasons 2 and 3 were also great, and it was only sometime during season 4 that the show began to go downhill imo (it began improving once again in season 5 though).

I wouldn't call it a gold standard by any mean, because season 1 isn't actually good. It just happens to have better pacing and some moments of decent animation, it was already mostly bad animation and nonsense writing.

The show still went downhill, it's just that most fans thinks it started on the top of Everest, when it really started on a compost pile and rolled down a hole near the base. It was always bad, it just got worse.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

There are only 3 versions of the Turtles I like

- Mirage

- 1990 Movie (and only that movie)

- 2003 series (minus Fast Forward and Back to the Sewer, but including Turtles Forever)

And that's it.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I wouldn't call it a gold standard by any mean, because season 1 isn't actually good. It just happens to have better pacing and some moments of decent animation, it was already mostly bad animation and nonsense writing.

The show still went downhill, it's just that most fans thinks it started on the top of Everest, when it really started on a compost pile and rolled down a hole near the base. It was always bad, it just got worse.

Do you think that any one of the show's 193 episodes is objectively good/well-written?

[neatoman]

Do you think that any one of the show's 193 episodes is objectively good/well-written?

I don't know about objective but some episodes, like Planet of the Turtleoids, are written in such an insane manner it's hard to not enjoy them. That's not objectively good or well written though.

In order for an episode to be well written, there are some basic criteria to determine that:

Are all crucial details to the plot established?
Are the characters bahaving in a way that is consistent?
Are they acting on information they have?
Is most of the scenes dedicated to the plot or establishing the crucial details?

There's probably more I could add to that list but it is a fair estimate of what's important to get right.

So what would be considered a poorly written episode according to these criteria could play out something like this:
Shredder has invented a freeze ray and goes around freezing stuff for the first half of the episode, while the turtles are seen cleaning their dojo. When the halway point of the episode has been reached, the turtles hear a bunch of stuff has been frozen without explaination, to which Leo responds with "I bet that rotten Shredder had something to do with this!". They drive around in their car for a while until they just find Shredder. He turns out to be too mighty with his freeze ray but then aliens show up and take the freeze ray away, declaring the technology to be in violation of some intergalactic treaty. The aliens then use their fire breath to thaw everything out and leave Shredder behind with a warning.

While that's not an actual episode, would you really be shocked if it was?

[Prowler]

I honestly believe that the FW series would be better if it didn't have season 4 + plus Euro vacation eps and a big chunk of season 3 as well.

Keep Season 1, 2, the best season 3 episodes, the planet of the turtleoids two parter, a handful of the best seasons 5-6 episodes(the ones with Rat King and/or Leatherhead, season 7 and the red sky seasons and you have a pretty solid show for what it is and for its time without any skippable episodes.

[pferreira]

I wouldn't call it a gold standard by any mean, because season 1 isn't actually good. It just happens to have better pacing and some moments of decent animation, it was already mostly bad animation and nonsense writing.

The show still went downhill, it's just that most fans thinks it started on the top of Everest, when it really started on a compost pile and rolled down a hole near the base. It was always bad, it just got worse.Ah yes, this is the thread for unpopular opinions. :D

When you say mostly bad animation be aware that the A or B team at Toei worked on Hot Rodding Teenagers from Dimension X along with some of the other Season 1 episodes. The only episode that could be considered to have bad animation is A Thing About Rats which had the C team working on it. You talk about being 'objective'. Those are facts which would be objective therefore you can't be right there. ;)

While I love the first season, I don't think the Original Cartoon lost its flare afterwards.
Seasons 2 and 3 were also great, and it was only sometime during season 4 that the show began to go downhill imo (it began improving once again in season 5 though).I totally agree. Season 2 kept the same sort of story arcs and serious writing the first season had. When Jack Mendelson came on with Season 3 and started adding more comedy to the series that's when it started to suffer a bit. Season 3 in retrospect is in that weird position where as a result half the season episodes have serious fare like Turtles on Trial with the other half being stuff like Cowabunga Shredhead. With Season 4 and the slow switch to network episodes the comedic, camp aspects of the show mostly take full control. It's not until Season 7 when David Wise took over that the show returned to the style of at least Season 2 in tone. Season 8, 9 and 10 could be considered comparable to Season 1 in tone had the show evolved naturally.

[shuriken]

*Cracks knuckles* Ok it's been a while. But here goes
I kinda hate how much of a joke Shredder is in the old Toon. I'm rewatching it and man, dude gets owned way too much. He's Krang's bitch throughout the better part of season 2-3 so far and man its a bit jarring. I loved his portrayal in the first season though, but by the 2nd season he's making puns about dough-nets and getting beaten with pizza toppings. Got used to Shredder being an intimidating badass from 2k3-onward I guess.

2k3 Is my favorite toon so far, even though I've seen a few Rise episodes, I can't get behind the drastic character shifts and design. I haven't seen enough of the 2012 for them to challenge the 2k3 turtles, but that one is enjoyable from what I saw.

I like Slash better than Zach as a 5th turtle.


Same.


I like Jim Lawson's art best mainly in volume 1 of Mirage.


I like that it was like a soft reinterpretation of the Eastman and Laird style at first, then slowly morphed into something really blocky and stylized by Volume 2. Which is a real shame.


The 2007 movie is the most unwatchable one for me, even more than the Bay films.

I've grown to really dislike this movie. BayTurtles had a lot of dumb stuff thrown in but they tried to do some fan service and include some good animation and fight scenes along with some classic OT villains Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and Shredder. It was the closest to the OT that we'll ever get, and I maintain that if the Turtle designs were closer to their toon or comic counterparts and done with CGI/practical effects, then it would have been better received.
tmnt2k7 is a mess from start to finish that doesn't know what it wants to be and ends up feeling both really slow moving and unnecessarily rushed with the Foot being useless and Max Winters, the Stone Generals and 13 monsters being worse characters than Walker and Lord Norinaga (er whatever his name was in the 3rd movie). The best thing about this one IMO was the Leo vs Raph fight and the animation and voice work. Everything else was really bad. It's the shortest of the movies but feels like the biggest chore.

Also I never liked the Archie comics and actually prefer the ridiculous Image comics over them. IDW is a good Ultimate like universe, and the Mirage Volume 1 & 2 have a special place in my heart since they are what got me back into TMNT after the Next Mutation which kinda left a sour taste in my mouth.

The NES game is legitimately fun and enjoyable.
My fave TMNT beat em up is Manhattan Project, and yeah, TiT is a bit overrated.

[Wesley]

BayTurtles had a lot of dumb stuff thrown in but they tried to do some fan service and include some good animation and fight scenes along with some classic OT villains Bebop, Rocksteady, Krang and Shredder. It was the closest to the OT that we'll ever get, and I maintain that if the Turtle designs were closer to their toon or comic counterparts and done with CGI/practical effects, then it would have been better received.


Disagree about TMNT 2007, but I agree BayTurtles was the closest we’ll ever get to an adaptation of the OT. Could’ve been better, but they were decent enough films, even though they had flaws. Secret of the Ooze is the worst imo.

[CyberCubed]

TMNT is a better franchise than all of DC and Marvel combined.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

TMNT is a better franchise than all of DC and Marvel combined.

I'm sure you don't like it more than Pokemon though.

[CyberCubed]

I'm sure you don't like it more than Pokemon though.

I do actually since TMNT is my #1 and been with it the longest. Since pokemon is such a huge long lasting franchise, there's obviously parts of it I don't care for and I actually don't play the games all that much anymore.

[shuriken]

Disagree about TMNT 2007, but I agree BayTurtles was the closest we’ll ever get to an adaptation of the OT. Could’ve been better, but they were decent enough films, even though they had flaws. Secret of the Ooze is the worst imo.

What did you like about 2k7? Also I liked that SotO was like a cartoon with the best animatronics of all the movies IMO (their expressions were amazing and more catroony, while still having a bit of a griminess to them. And not once did I see an actor face behind a TMNT mask or wires coming out of their shells or a wierd overlayed background.) Now there is a lot of goofy trash in it, but for me, especially growing up, this one was one of my faves.

[Vegita-San]

So, I upgraded the TV to a 110' projector screen.

FINALLY got around to rewatching Out of the Shadows all the way through for the first time since it hit theaters.

Honestly, it's a VAST improvment over the first film. now that all the hub bub around it has died down..I can better analyze it objectively.

- Bebop and Rocksteady where well written and cast. Rocksteady was more interesting as a human though.

- Stephen Amell made a good Casey Jones. But THIS version of Casey Jones made no sense. Vigillante mode just appears. no real reason given.

- Fox did OK.


-Things that needed fixing. No Technodrome assembly. it should have appeared and started rolling over buildings. Krang is WAY overdesigned. The voices ALL needed recasting. Maybe keep Leo and Raph. The Turtles designs really sucked. Stockman did not appear or act smart at all and just read exposition.

-Things that worked. The Turtles revealing themselves to the Police First. I liked that they learned to accept each other and work together (albeit abit too easily). Bebop and Rocksteady characterized perfectly. Splinter looked far better this film and not nearly as gross.

If you take a way the things that didn't work, fixed the designs, one actress, and most of the voices.. I think the movie would have been much better received... ESPECIALLY if it came first. you almost don't need the first one at all now.

[PApagreg]

Rise is better than seasons 2-5 of the Nick TMNT and does light hearted episode much better too.

2k12 Shredder was super uninteresting and one note

As much as I love the 2k3 version its animation is kinda bland with only the Bishop fight being the best thing about it.

Also I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but Xever and Bradford were much better as humans than mutants.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Rise is better than seasons 2-5 of the Nick TMNT and does light hearted episode much better too.

Also I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but Xever and Bradford were much better as humans than mutants.

Other than the better comedy, I also find that Rise stands out all much more than the Nick show as its own thing, because of its focus on original characters.

That is not to say that Nick's decision to adapt other versions'characters was a inherently bad thing, but when I saw Nick Bebop and Rocksteady for example, the OT versions always come to mind and its glaringly obvious that B&R were added in the Nick toon for Nostalgia, first and foremost.

[TommyT]

Unpopular opinion? That gritty TMNT is just as bad an idea as Rise.

[MikeandRaph87]

I don't know about objective but some episodes, like Planet of the Turtleoids, are written in such an insane manner it's hard to not enjoy them. That's not objectively good or well written though.

In order for an episode to be well written, there are some basic criteria to determine that:

Are all crucial details to the plot established?
Are the characters bahaving in a way that is consistent?
Are they acting on information they have?
Is most of the scenes dedicated to the plot or establishing the crucial details?

There's probably more I could add to that list but it is a fair estimate of what's important to get right.

So what would be considered a poorly written episode according to these criteria could play out something like this:
Shredder has invented a freeze ray and goes around freezing stuff for the first half of the episode, while the turtles are seen cleaning their dojo. When the halway point of the episode has been reached, the turtles hear a bunch of stuff has been frozen without explaination, to which Leo responds with "I bet that rotten Shredder had something to do with this!". They drive around in their car for a while until they just find Shredder. He turns out to be too mighty with his freeze ray but then aliens show up and take the freeze ray away, declaring the technology to be in violation of some intergalactic treaty. The aliens then use their fire breath to thaw everything out and leave Shredder behind with a warning.

While that's not an actual episode, would you really be shocked if it was?

It reminds me of three episodes in the third season that had cop out endings that are embarrassing to me as a huge fan of the show. The first one is Ninja Sword To Nowhere with the aliens taking the sword increasing drama of Splinter being trapped forever, but it adds nothing and brings disappointment. Then there is the Curlee Maneuver a three stooges move that paralyzes the opponent and is only known by a true master of the Foot? All that build for that? Then there is Michelangelo's Birthday where the turtles are bloated like balloons and the only solution is using his faith Splinter cures them with moth balls? WHAT THE HECK? Bebop and Rocksteady competently captured Mike and he could have had an acid death, but it had a cop out solution? These three climaxes could have been done without a dumb joke to solve it all.

[Autbot_Benz]

Rise is better than seasons 2-5 of the Nick TMNT and does light hearted episode much better too.

https://i.imgur.com/mIKkBLu.gif

[PApagreg]

https://i.imgur.com/mIKkBLu.gif

Hey at least I said season 2-5, one is still better.

Edit: You know looking back maybe I like season 2 as much as Rise

I'm curious to know why some users here like Rise but dislike the OT.

Its a product of its time and as someone who doesn't care for 80s cartoons(with the exception of Jem, Tiny Toons and maybe Ducktales) it doesn't have much for me.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Its a product of its time and as someone who doesn't care for 80s cartoons(with the exception of Jem, Tiny Toons and maybe Ducktales) it doesn't have much for me.

Tiny Toons is 90s but close enough. Your opinion on Rise over FW is fair enough.

[Metalwolf]

Parts of 2k12 were OK past the 2nd season. I think if all of the crappy episodes were taken out, this show would be about 3 seasons long.

I hate the semi-traditional dystopian endings. I don't care if Mirage did it, they suck. What's the point of getting invested in heroes if you know they are going to be nothing but giant impotent failures every single time for 'the dark 'n gritty realism'?

Multiverses suck. The idea of a 'Turtleverse' 'Turtle Prime' and whatever hardcore cringy poodoo that is nothing more then a translucent attempt to copy off of Marvel and DC is just frankly, eye-rollingly lulzy. Trying to add in 'serious comics' elements after the franchise is still perma-stuck in little kid land makes me roll my eyes so hard. It's no longer the old classic Mirage. It's now just a fancy toy commercial made to sell some low grade polyvinyl toys from Communist China.

[Andrew NDB]

I hate the semi-traditional dystopian endings. I don't care if Mirage did it, they suck. What's the point of getting invested in heroes if you know they are going to be nothing but giant impotent failures every single time for 'the dark 'n gritty realism'?

Because they're not heroes. Not in the traditional sense.

I agree with you about the multiverse... I always used to be really against it in any kind of official capacity. But it's a thing.

[Metalwolf]

Because they're not heroes. Not in the traditional sense.

I agree with you about the multiverse... I always used to be really against it in any kind of official capacity. But it's a thing.
I couldn't also help but think of multiverses as a sort of gimmicky fad, something that the big name comics did so everyone else had to get in on them to be 'edgy.' And in TMNT it seems like the multiverse concept mainly gets used as an excuse to keep allowing the FW Turtles to show up whenever an injection of the oh-muh-childhood feels is needed.

[Garfield]

Unpopular opinion? That gritty TMNT is just as bad an idea as Rise.

While I wouldn't say the idea of gritty TMNT is bad. and I don't have a problem with Rise. I don't clamor for gritty interpretations of Ninja Turtles like some people do.



I hate the semi-traditional dystopian endings. I don't care if Mirage did it, they suck. What's the point of getting invested in heroes if you know they are going to be nothing but giant impotent failures every single time for 'the dark 'n gritty realism'?

I kind of agree with this sentiment but digging in a little deeper. Its not just with Ninja Turtles, its Science fiction and comic books in general that often gravitate to the drab, collapsed, dystopian imagery. That portrayal seems to be a bit mainstream, I think It's a reflection of how cynical and pessimistic many of us have become as individuals. I think it sucks...but I think I have an understanding why we have become this way, so I have to be empathetic too.


Also I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion but Xever and Bradford were much better as humans than mutants.

I agree and I also really like Steranko as a human and Zeck to. I thought they were visually interesting characters that never needed to be mutants. They were less interesting as mutants. In the case of Steranko and Xever they were more intimidating to me as humans and became sort of goofy after they were mutated.

[PApagreg]

Don't know how unpopular but I HATE fly Baxter, its stupid, gross and it always makes his character worse and uninteresting. Make him into a cyborg or A.I or something but fly Baxter is just awful

[Utrommaniac]

It's also unnecessarily cruel!

[TommyT]

I absolutely loved the horrible things that happened to Baxter in the OT.

[PApagreg]

I'm reading some of the old threads in Rise and I don't understand the dislike with Rise April, for me at least she does the concept of "Teenage April" way better than the 2k12 version

[Donnie]

Unpopular opinions? I have many.

- I hate Bebop & Rocksteady. I hate how IDW brought them into the comics, I wanted them to die with the OT. I don't understand why people go crazy over their figures, their characters, etc. In fact, I think the entire ensemble of TMNT villains is WEAK compared to Marvel's slate of awesome baddies. There is absolutely nobody in the TMNT universe that is comparable to Loki, Thanos, Dr. Doom, Killmonger, and the like. Not even Shredder is as interesting as any of them. I suppose I like Rat King, because of his supernatural arc in the Mirage books and the Nick show. Still, he doesn't compare to Marvel villains.

- IDW lost me when they "killed" Donatello, even though he was brought back. The whole bit reminded me of "Game of Thrones," which I really loathe, because T. Waltz displayed what GRRM made a living from: shock writing, to illicit crazy reactions from fans who love Donatello by killing him off brutally. Just like GRRM killed off all of his good/virtuous characters brutally like Robb Stark and Ned Stark. Yet, that little b*tch Joffrey gets off'ed by being simply poisoned. F**k off. Anyway, I still buy the one-shots but as far as the IDW main title, I was gone by issue #50. Because even when they brought Donatello back, he displayed ZERO animosity or personal vendetta against Shredder & B & R after they basically killed him. That whole rooftop battle in #50 read like a friggin' episode of the OT, minus the beheading. Don's "death" was petty and stupid and not necessary. Now you can't even run a Google search on Donatello without seeing "is dead" somewhere in there.

- TMNT III is a far better movie than TMNT II: Secret of the Ooze. Not only is the writing better -- Michelangelo gets great character development in III -- but I also love the Turtle suits despite many fans hate for them, and TMNT in feudal Japan just rocks my history loving world.

That's it for now. ;)

[Musashi]

Unpopular opinions? I have many...

- TMNT III is a far better movie than TMNT II: Secret of the Ooze. Not only is the writing better -- Michelangelo gets great character development in III -- but I also love the Turtle suits despite many fans hate for them, and TMNT in feudal Japan just rocks my history loving world.

That's it for now. ;)

I sort of agree with that. For me, the two films both have their strengths and weaknesses. I don't hate the Turtle suits in III either, although I really do think the Henson Turtles are considerably better, with the lip movements in particular being a bit basic by comparison. If those III suits had been used from the start, I think they'd be looked on more kindly - It's just that Henson were so far ahead of everybody else in the field at that time.

Most if not all the characters are better served in III, not so much Splinter, although II does have a few bits of nice dialogue scattered around. Each Turtle gets a reasonable amount to do and say, and rather than mostly stand around doing her best with a bland character, as in II, Paige Turco actually plays the same character as Judith Hoag in the first one, just in her own way. Although it is a bit strange to have Elias Koteas back and choose to limit Casey's screen time in favor of a new character - I'd be interested to know why that was done, as I seem to remember Stuart Gillard's commentary is more about the shoot than the writing.

[Donnie]

I sort of agree with that. For me, the two films both have their strengths and weaknesses. I don't hate the Turtle suits in III either, although I really do think the Henson Turtles are considerably better, with the lip movements in particular being a bit basic by comparison. If those III suits had been used from the start, I think they'd be looked on more kindly - It's just that Henson were so far ahead of everybody else in the field at that time.

Most if not all the characters are better served in III, not so much Splinter, although II does have a few bits of nice dialogue scattered around. Each Turtle gets a reasonable amount to do and say, and rather than mostly stand around doing her best with a bland character, as in II, Paige Turco actually plays the same character as Judith Hoag in the first one, just in her own way. Although it is a bit strange to have Elias Koteas back and choose to limit Casey's screen time in favor of a new character - I'd be interested to know why that was done, as I seem to remember Stuart Gillard's commentary is more about the shoot than the writing.

I agree, the 1990 Henson suits reign supreme. I don't think anything will come close to those, unless of course Jim Henson's surviving company attempts to do the suits for the rumored live action Netflix TMNT show. Agreed also on Splinter being shafted in III, he is really the only one that doesn't get much attention. The rest are well developed. Michelangelo in specific like I mentioned was wonderfully written and developed. His love of humans and their society, his need to fit in, and his crush on Mitsu was handled very tastefully. You really feel for him when he is forced to leave Japan at the end. Raphael has a nice arc with Yoshi too, Donnie's love for history and tech come to the forefront, and Leonardo had high points too (saving Yoshi via CPR). Hell, even Kenshin had fantastic development throughout.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I'm reading some of the old threads in Rise and I don't understand the dislike with Rise April, for me at least she does the concept of "Teenage April" way better than the 2k12 version

I'm speaking for myself based on what I've watched but besides the fact that she's loud, rowdy, and a bit too reckless for my liking, I don't find her in the slightest bit interesting. Whenever the character does get focus, she comes off as dull in comparison to other characters in the episode and she really adds nothing to it to make it engaging. She's really just there. Now in comparison to the 2k12 version for all the flak she got, she was still interesting and endearing. She may had a lot of weird and outright questionable concepts added to her character but she still was likable, at least for the most part.:lol:

[IndigoErth]

I'm okay with her for the most part and at least she isn't being the center of attention most of the time, which probably helps. (Though the loud, careless teen stereotype is annoying.) But my god, can she please stop using her own name as a battle cry. (Along with every other annoying sound bite this show loves to reuse over and over.)

Though, side note, I found her judgemental/rejecting attitude of the Turtles trying to embrace their adopted Hamato heritage (season 1 finale eps) off putting. She had no reason to do that.

[cammy85]

- TMNT III is a far better movie than TMNT II: Secret of the Ooze. Not only is the writing better -- Michelangelo gets great character development in III -- but I also love the Turtle suits despite many fans hate for them, and TMNT in feudal Japan just rocks my history loving world.

That's it for now. ;)

I also liked II better than II. It certainly has aged better IMO. There was nothing wrong with Tokka and Rahzar and I understand why they had to bring in Keno. But I didn't like the the "cartooning down" of Shredder compared to the credible threat he was in he first movie. I understand why that had to be done too, but still.

III was a vast improvement and even though it was made just for fun, it told a great story and after watching shows like the 1980s She-ra with the rebellion and overthrowing villains, it went a lot better despite what they reduced Splinter to. Despite III aging better, I still stand by my belief that "The Legend of Koji" was made as an apology for this movie and not necessarily as a decent sendoff to James Avery.

[PApagreg]

Now in comparison to the 2k12 version for all the flak she got, she was still interesting and endearing.

Eh I kinda disagree with the exception of the Splinter stuff she was just there for weird powers and Donnie/Casey ship stuff

Though, side note, I found her judgemental/rejecting attitude of the Turtles trying to embrace their adopted Hamato heritage (season 1 finale eps) off putting. She had no reason to do that.

Umm if your friends who you knew for years had a 180 in terms of personality you would question it too.

[pferreira]

I think the movie would have been much better received... ESPECIALLY if it came first. you almost don't need the first one at all now.I agree. It wouldn't have been an amazing movie but it would have at least been watchable unlike the first 2014 movie.

[Adventuremaster18]

My unpopular opinion is that I don't really want an adaptation of TMNT that's exactly like the Mirage comics or any of the previous adaptations. I've seen others ask for something like that, but I find it to be a bizarre request.

I go by the Douglas Adams philosophy of "What's the point of having two things that are exactly the same?" For those who don't know, Douglas wrote the Radio Drama "The Hithchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy" and adapted it into a novel, TV series, stage play, comic, etc. He always changed elements of the story when adapting it into a different medium as he felt it was kinda pointless to have two stories that are 100 percent the same. This worked for some adaptations (the book became more popular than the Radio Drama) and didn't for others (his screenplay for the film was mostly used for the film, with some minor rewrites, and is considered to be terrible), but he always made sure to add something new to it.

I wouldn't mind a darker interpretation of the TMNT, more in tone with Mirage and less with Fred Wolf, but I don't want it to be exactly the same story.

[Andrew NDB]

I think at this point I'm a bit more "I want 0% Fred Wolf in there" and less "I want it to be 100% Mirage."

Enough is enough.

[Adventuremaster18]

I don't really believe they should ditch all Fred Wolf stuff. Whether you like it or not (I'm not particularly a fan of the Fred Wolf TMNT cartoon itself), it's part of the history of TMNT and will forever be a part of it. I like Mirage TMNT, but it's not a flawless comic either.

I like a lot of the adaptations such as the 2012 TMNT for reinventing aspects of Fred Wolf and doing something somewhat interesting with them. It also does that with Mirage, many of the adaptations pay respect to Mirage actually (The 1990 film adapts various elements of it, as do 2K3 and 2012, though they can be a bit loose with adapting). Same with the 1990 film and 2K3 series. I feel reinventing the series each time with elements from previous versions, whether it's Mirage, IDW, Archie, Fred Wolf, etc. isn't a bad idea.

I mean if the adaptations had ZERO Mirage influence, I'd understand, but a lot of adaptations still respect it and homage/adapt elements of it.

I feel paying homage to various versions to a good way to respect the history of TMNT, regardless of which version you started with.

[PApagreg]

Speaking of Mirage, I think the designs for the turtles is my least favorite or at least the ones with the protruding snouts. I don't know it feels like half the time they look constipated and they got that Kanamori grin(even though I like it on her).

Even though I rank it below Rise I think season 5 of TMNT 2012 is better than 3/4 just for the sake of having better pacing and having more diverse episodes/arcs.

Tales of the Yokai isn't a good episode, it had potential but there were a number of things that hold it back. I felt like the inclusion of the turtles hurt it yeah I know they were supposed to be the "Yokai" but if we are focusing on the origin of how Shredder and Splinter came to be then we should've just focused on them. Tang Shen was boring she has the same problem as Kirby in that she feels like a plot device and less like a character and basically has no personality.Finally we dn't see Saki and Yoshi being actual friends I mean yeah we saw the latter goofing off with the former but in less than 5 min Saki begins to act like Shredder.

Rise Purple Dragons are better than 2k12 for the sake of the former having character.

Also despite this iteration being my favorite TMNT 2k3 fight scenes were kinda sub-par with the Bishop fight being the only stand out

[Klunk1234]

I was refusing to watch the 2018 TMNT until last month when I gave it a chance... It was horrible and ridiculous. Leo has to be the leader, not Raph. He looks clownish; Raph a gargantuan beast; Donnie with those eyebrows and all that equipment and Master Splinter looking like a Gerbil, not a Rat. The only one acceptable is Mikey.

Worst incarnation since the Next Mutation.

I will stick with the IDW comics, the 1987 TMNT, 2k3 TMNT until season 5 and 2k12 TMNT series.

Since its still January Happy New Year everybody on this forum.

[Adventuremaster18]

Despite the writing not being the greatest thing in the world, 2018 TMNT does excel in style and animation. It almost looks like a Studio Trigger cartoon at times. It's definitely the most well animated series, but I feel it goes more for style over substance at times, still, it's better than something like the Bay Turtles or Next Mutation.

[PApagreg]

Despite the writing not being the greatest thing in the world, 2018 TMNT does excel in style and animation. It almost looks like a Studio Trigger cartoon at times. It's definitely the most well animated series, but I feel it goes more for style over substance at times, still, it's better than something like the Bay Turtles or Next Mutation.

I personally think its style and substance especially after episode 13 and yeah you can tell the animators enjoy Trigger shows especially in this scene.

https://66.media.tumblr.com/4229e171dacba4abfd815fc9b241485d/7fd44560b53879ac-81/s640x960/e9e357cf753700ab1bc1714949bd1944bd20fd4f.gif

Also no Leo still isn't leader.

Donnie with those eyebrows and all that equipment

I personally enjoy his eyebrows.

[Metalwolf]

I don't really believe they should ditch all Fred Wolf stuff. Whether you like it or not (I'm not particularly a fan of the Fred Wolf TMNT cartoon itself), it's part of the history of TMNT and will forever be a part of it. I like Mirage TMNT, but it's not a flawless comic either.

I like a lot of the adaptations such as the 2012 TMNT for reinventing aspects of Fred Wolf and doing something somewhat interesting with them.

*snip*


I feel paying homage to various versions to a good way to respect the history of TMNT, regardless of which version you started with.I don't think anyone has any issue with some Fred Wolf homages. I think the issue arises when Fred Wolf starts to dominate and squeeze out what is original.

Cute homages are fine. Not so much the full fledged cameos of Fred Wolf Turtles and replacement of 2k12's two original henchmen with this iteration's version of B&R to blatently please the Fred Wolf fans.

Then there was the second BayTurtles movie, heavily drawing on Fred Wolf, over any other iteration.

I don't think they 'ditched' Fred Wolf. On the contrary, they have relied on it too much, to the point it ends up frustrating some fans who just want to see something different.

[DarkFell]

TMNT 2K3 just didn't grab me - Rise hasn't done that either.

2K12 and OT are okay to watch in small doses, but I doubt that I could binge watch through either series through all the seasons.

I wasn't crazy for Secret of the Ooze or TMNT III - the later movies might have redeemed both 2 and 3. TMNT 2007 is still one that I haven't seen yet.

[Garfield]

- I hate Bebop & Rocksteady.

Hate might be too strong a word but I don't love Bebop and Rocksteady. I prefer Tokka and Rahzar as a mutant duo. Kept it to myself for so long because I didn't want to start breaking hearts.

But Bebop and Rocksteady were the worse in the Ninja Turtles Out of the Shadows movie. They were so obnoxious the way they were always shouting "My Man!" to each other, the potty humor and the way they couldn't keep their hands off of each other. Annoying.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think anyone has any issue with some Fred Wolf homages.

I do. We've had decades of more than enough of them. Enough is enough.

[mikey0]

- The NECA TMNT “Cartoon Version” 2 packs are lousy. I can’t believe that Shredder and Leo and Bebop and Rocksteady packs are hard to find. The turtles never made battle faces long enough in the FW cartoon for that to be a definitive image of the FW TMNT.

- The variant turtles (Storage Shell, Headdroppin’, Mutations, Talkin’, Movie Star) from the early 90s were not on par with the ‘88 originals.

- The hard-head TMNT 1st basic assortment figures were not on the same level of creativity as the soft-head TMNT 1st basic assortment figures.

- The blue stripe, orange and blue pocket, and PRESS Aprils never should have been made.

- Sewer Surfer Michelangelo was not a disguise for Michelangelo just as the ensembles for Space Cadet Raphael and Leo The Sewer Surfer were not.

I’ll think of more later.

[Peter Palmer]

I like the 2007 TMNT movie.

It's not without its problems. The villains are largely forgettable. I suppose what I enjoyed was seeing how the family dynamic changed once Shredder was removed from the equation. So many incarnations show the turtles in direct conflict with the Shredder/the Foot that it was interesting to me to check up on them once that threat was no longer ever-present.

I hear so many fans dismiss this movie. I really enjoy it.

[Turtle Soup]

I like the 2007 TMNT movie.

It's not without its problems. The villains are largely forgettable. I suppose what I enjoyed was seeing how the family dynamic changed once Shredder was removed from the equation. So many incarnations show the turtles in direct conflict with the Shredder/the Foot that it was interesting to me to check up on them once that threat was no longer ever-present.

I hear so many fans dismiss this movie. I really enjoy it.
It's a decent movie. Could've been great with a storyline that actually had to do with the Turtles.

[Turtle Soup]

The first season (5 episodes) of the OT is top shelf TMNT, as good as any other TMNT media. After season 1, it of course changes drastically.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The first season (5 episodes) of the OT is top shelf TMNT, as good as any other TMNT media. After season 1, it of course changes drastically.

Have you seen season 7 of the OT? (Not including the European vacation).

I would argue that its the closest to season 1 that the show ever reaches again in terms of tone and style.

[MikeandRaph87]

Have you seen season 7 of the OT? (Not including the European vacation).

I would argue that its the closest to season 1 that the show ever reaches again in terms of tone and style.

I wish TMNT could capture the tone of that and season 8 again. It set a bar that might never be surpassed. Humor, action, character set, tone, its all there and almost perfect.

I also see a potential in having an crimelord figure that is an actual threat. I cite Big Louie as the best possibility for that, but even IDW name dropped him to kill him. That could have been done for Mad Dof McMutt and Pinky McFingers.

[mikey0]

The first season (5 episodes) of the OT is top shelf TMNT, as good as any other TMNT media. After season 1, it of course changes drastically.

The mini-series? Technically, the 1988 episodes were season 1 episodes. Lionsgate changed the arrangement of seasons for the DVDs in the 2000s.

[Wesley]

I like the 2007 TMNT movie.

It's not without its problems. The villains are largely forgettable. I suppose what I enjoyed was seeing how the family dynamic changed once Shredder was removed from the equation. So many incarnations show the turtles in direct conflict with the Shredder/the Foot that it was interesting to me to check up on them once that threat was no longer ever-present.

I hear so many fans dismiss this movie. I really enjoy it.

Agree. It’s also the closest we’ll get to seeing Buffy in a TMNT movie and the characterization outside of the villains was great imo. Very good voice acting and fight scenes too.

The first season (5 episodes) of the OT is top shelf TMNT, as good as any other TMNT media. After season 1, it of course changes drastically.

Agree, though I think seasons 7, 8 and 10 were nearly as good.

[Voltron]

The 2007 movie was awesome. I wish they'd continued with that incarnation. The hint at the return of the Shredder got my hopes up. Then they got Bayed.

[Leo656]

I'm kind of in the middle of the road with the 2007 movie. It's pretty good for what it is but... that storyline really could have been for anything, and it doesn't really feel like the best fit for a TMNT movie. At the very least, it's probably not the movie that the brand needed in that time, in that place, in that space, to "reignite the fire" and launch a new series of TMNT films, which is what it absolutely needed (and was most likely expected) to do. As much as people say they're sick of seeing Shredder and the same ol' thang over and over, something a lot more familiar was probably what was necessary and probably would have done better business, if we're being completely honest. Only the stuff with Leo and Raph felt "authentic" to TMNT, the rest was like a generic video game plot that the Turtles got Mad Libbed into. If that makes any sense.

It's not bad, I mean I like it fine, probably more than most based on what I've seen over the years, but it definitely didn't quite hit the mark and probably should have been a completely different movie. Yeah, it probably would have been "more of the same", BUT, they also probably would have ended up making more than one of 'em, so... six of one, y'know?

Also, the wrong guy went over in that Raph/Leo fight. Booooo. :tgrumble: You know they booked that sh*t for the fangirls; many a feminine shriek of joy was heard in my theater when the fight ended. An' I'm like "Buuuuullllll SH*T, pal!" But then I didn't book it.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Also, the wrong guy went over in that Raph/Leo fight. Booooo. :tgrumble: You know they booked that sh*t for the fangirls; many a feminine shriek of joy was heard in my theater when the fight ended. An' I'm like "Buuuuullllll SH*T, pal!" But then I didn't book it.
By all accounts, Leonardo should've and would've won that fight, had it not been for the fact that he was hesitating after The Night walker's Big reveal.

I do have to wonder though, why was Leo so against the Night walker and by extension, Raphael being a vigilante?

[Leo656]

Because if anyone was gonna dress up like a badass and go play super-hero it was gonna be HIM, dammit! :lol:

I know some people absolutely hate how Leo was written in that movie to be sort of a petty hypocrite, but I found it kind of natural. Lots of people in his sort of position naturally carry a bit of a chip on 'em. Especially older brothers in semi-large families.

[CyberCubed]

For the original cartoon my favorite seasons are Season 1, Season 7, Season 3, Season 8, Season 6, Season 2, and then select eps of Season 4-5, Season 10, and Season 9, and lastly Euro Vacation.

I think Season 6 of the original cartoon is very underrated. There's a lot of gems in that season and it feels like there was more action in it than the previous two seasons. Seasons 4 and 5 probably have the most "dud" episodes in it, but again there also some really good eps those seasons too.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

For the original cartoon my favorite seasons are Season 1, Season 7, Season 3, Season 8, Season 6, Season 2, and then select eps of Season 4-5, Season 10, and Season 9, and lastly Euro Vacation.

I think Season 6 of the original cartoon is very underrated. There's a lot of gems in that season and it feels like there was more action in it than the previous two seasons. Seasons 4 and 5 probably have the most "dud" episodes in it, but again there also some really good eps those seasons too.

You just named every season of the cartoon as your favourite :D

Mine is season 3 overall.

Speaking of season 6, it might not be as well written as season 7, but the animation was just about as good and stayed consistent throughout the season which was a nice change of pace from the wildly different animation styles used in the previous seasons.

It had a pretty decent amount of action too as you said.

I think the first episode, Rock around the Block, was pretty good for giving General Traag the spotlight, and having him kick the turtles assess with complete ease.

[Peter Palmer]

Also, the wrong guy went over in that Raph/Leo fight. Booooo. :tgrumble: You know they booked that sh*t for the fangirls; many a feminine shriek of joy was heard in my theater when the fight ended. An' I'm like "Buuuuullllll SH*T, pal!" But then I didn't book it.

I've read this 3 times and just can't put together what this means. I want to...I'm not making fun...I'm just unfamiliar with the lingo.

Went over = lost?
Fangirls = Raphael fans?
Book = ???

If you care, I'd like to know your take on the fight.

Personally, I really liked how it played out. Leo was so confident going in that he didn't draw his weapons or even get into an aggressive stance. Raph attacked several times with a manriki, which Leo dodged with ease, showing his skill. They fought hand-to-hand and Leo got the upper hand by understanding his opponent. Finally, once both have their weapons drawn, Leo gets in a swipe that is inches from Raph's neck. This tells me that if Leo were going for the kill, he could have gotten it there. For obvious reasons, that wasn't his goal.

They showed Leo getting the upper hand 3 different times during the fight. Raph's tenacity and raw strength was able to get the win in the end, but different circumstances/motivations and the fight would have ended much differently. We all knew neither turtle was going to die in this fight. Knowing that, I thought the movie did a great job giving us a fight that showcased the fighting ability and personalities of both turtles. I thought it was well done and exciting

[Leo656]

Sorry, I constantly use wrestling lingo in everyday conversation. Force of habit after being in the biz for over 10 years. :lol:

- "Go over/Went over" means "To win". "Raphael went over" = "Raphael wins".

- "Fangirls" = Female fans of a certain character, in this case Raphael, who may or may not be a little bit obsessive. This one isn't a carny/wrestling term though, I assumed it was one everyone was familiar with.

- "Booked" = "Scripted". "So-and-so was booked to Go Over" means "So-and-so was scripted to win."

Hope that clears up any confusion! :tgrin:

I also can't disagree with any of your points; it just annoyed me because I knew, sure enough, that it would give Raphael fans all the ammo they needed to insist that Raphael was tougher or a better fighter than Leo, since we saw him go over in an "official" fight. But everything you said about it makes sense, too.

[d_osborn]

- "Booked" = "Scripted". "So-and-so was booked to Go Over" means "So-and-so was scripted to win."

That's typically how filmmaking works, especially animation. :D :P In all seriousness, I didn't care for the movie at all, but that scene was gorgeously designed from a visual standpoint.

https://i.imgur.com/d0un0du.png

[Turtle Soup]

The mini-series? Technically, the 1988 episodes were season 1 episodes. Lionsgate changed the arrangement of seasons for the DVDs in the 2000s.
Didn't know that.

[Peter Palmer]

Sorry, I constantly use wrestling lingo in everyday conversation. Force of habit after being in the biz for over 10 years. :lol:

- "Go over/Went over" means "To win". "Raphael went over" = "Raphael wins".

- "Fangirls" = Female fans of a certain character, in this case Raphael, who may or may not be a little bit obsessive. This one isn't a carny/wrestling term though, I assumed it was one everyone was familiar with.

- "Booked" = "Scripted". "So-and-so was booked to Go Over" means "So-and-so was scripted to win."

Hope that clears up any confusion! :tgrin:

I also can't disagree with any of your points; it just annoyed me because I knew, sure enough, that it would give Raphael fans all the ammo they needed to insist that Raphael was tougher or a better fighter than Leo, since we saw him go over in an "official" fight. But everything you said about it makes sense, too.

Thanks!

I know what fangirls means out of context, but the context made it unclear (for me, anyway). I guess I didn't realize that there enough female fans of Raphael that would also have any strong opinions about this movie to categorize them into a group. Genuinely, I took this comment as just being playfully derogatory of male fans of Raphael.

Were there a lot of ladies in the theater when this was playing? My theater was pretty well exclusively men 18-35.

Like I mentioned before, I like that they left enough ambiguity in the fight that it could be debated by fans (mostly that Leo had the opportunity to win and chose not to take it and harm his brother).

Thanks for the clarification. I need to broaden my lingo.

[Leo656]

Oh yeah, there were chicks, although a few of them sounded like they were mostly there with their boyfriends rather than of their own volition. Like I'll never forget the one sitting behind me, she was being a rather giggly chatterbox, and then when the opening scene started her (I assume) boyfriend abruptly "Shhh!"ed her. She sounded rather indignant as she muttered, "Alright, I'll be quiet. (Sigh) I'll be quiet so we can watch (mock seriousness) Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles." :tlol: Didn't really sound like she wanted to be there all that much. Theater was pretty well-packed altogether; I think it was opening night if I remember correctly.

As I've mentioned, there were definitely quite a few excited female voices which rang out when Raph won the fight. So I always just joke that they wrote that bit for the fangirls... since anyone thinking logically about it knows that Leo would easily hand him his ass just about every time. :trazz:

[Peter Palmer]

Another unpopular opinion:

I didn't care for Splinter's voice in TMNT (2007).

I'm led to understand that Mako is an icon of sorts, but I'm unfamiliar with his body of work. This is the only thing I've ever seen where he was attached. I just don't think the voice works for the character.

I don't even think Splinter needs a specific voice. He's had a number of distinct voices that I've enjoyed.

Original Cartoon, 1990 Movie, 2k3 series, 2012 series...all different, all very much suit the incarnation they represent. I like them. The 2007 Splinter voice just didn't work for me.

[Leo656]

I primarily knew Mako from "Sidekicks" with Chuck Norris and Jonathan Brandis. :lol: I'm well aware that he did a lot of other stuff but that's what I saw the most. Not that I'm especially proud of that.

[Hockey Boy]

-IDW is terrible.
-Utrom Shredder is the best shredder fight me
-the 1990 film is the best incarnation of all time, although that might not be so unpopular
-Raphael is lame, and boring.Outside of one incarnation almost everyone hated hes an ass to everybody for largely no reason, especially Leonardo, and that jealousy (at least i think?) gets old.
-Rise is great, or i guess WAS.People hated it because it was something new, which is just what the franchise needed after two decent highly popular incarnations had largely depended on nostalgia, that being Nick and IDW.

[Zog The Magnificent]

-IDW is terrible.


Care to elaborate?

[Hockey Boy]

Care to elaborate?
Well for starters
Raphael, he actually had a personality other than hating Leonardo for no reason, with a refreshing change with Donatello being argumentative with leonardo in some sort of science v faith argument, then a few issues later, their personalities were just swapped into what we all know and the terrible reincarnation origin was just accepted by everyone.i’m not a fan of these new characters, alopex for example is just so boring, jennika had no personality for the longest time and a fifth turtle is an idea thats been proven a bad idea, the tone is all over the place, at times it mostly wants to be dark and gritty but in the next scene they’re in dimension X with the neutrinos or trading wisecracks with an army crab.
Also Casey isn't a chad so 0/10, sorry :lol:
In all seriousness, i’m sorry, i know it has its fans but i just hate it

[Cowa]

- A fifith turtle and/or a female turtle should never exist, I lost any interest that I still might had in the IDW comics after "turtle Jennika" happened.

- The first movie is like, Edgelord meets Emo Boy meets Ghostbusters. I don't like it at all.

- Rise!Don is the first version of Donatello to actually be interesting and it should become the standard for new incarnations IMO

[Voltron]

Would you allow for Slash or Tokka? Do they count? I always liked the idea of them as foils for the other turtles.

[neatoman]

Would you allow for Slash or Tokka? Do they count? I always liked the idea of them as foils for the other turtles.

I think Slash and Tokka are different enough and doesn't interact with the main four enought for that to be a problem, unlike Jennika or Venus. On the other hand, it's probably for the best to keep the mutants as sparce as possible, so they probably shouldn't be around either.

[FifthTurtles81]

2k3 has it's moments, but is largely boring, has terrible voice acting, has the least interesting versions of Splinter and April, of all the animated shows, and every single thing they do with Shredder makes him less interesting and a total joke.

The overly grim self serious tone doesn't work, for the most part, because the voice acting is so OTT, the dialogue is usually bad and every attempt at a joke falls flat, like it was written by someone who has never heard a joke or wit before.

I grind my teeth everytime "tough guy" Raph exclaims: "What the SHELL?!" Eurgh. Just awful.

I like some of the episodes in seasons 1-3 but it's a complete write off to me after that

[Cowa]

Would you allow for Slash or Tokka? Do they count? I always liked the idea of them as foils for the other turtles.

I think Slash and Tokka are different enough and doesn't interact with the main four enought for that to be a problem, unlike Jennika or Venus. On the other hand, it's probably for the best to keep the mutants as sparce as possible, so they probably shouldn't be around either.

Yeah, same. Slash and Tokka are ok.

[dawwe]

I don't know if any of these are really unpopular opinons but here goes.

I prefer Splinter originally having been Hamato Yoshi.

I prefer the colored bandanas/headbands.

The 2003 cartoon is the best cartoon.

I don't really like the turtles having tails

[CyberCubed]

I don't know if any of these are really unpopular opinons but here goes.

I prefer Splinter originally having been Hamato Yoshi.

I prefer the colored bandanas/headbands.

The 2003 cartoon is the best cartoon.

I don't really like the turtles having tails

I wouldn't say any of these are unpopular. Not everyone agrees on Splinter's origin but so many seem to prefer the human one.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Unpopular opinions?

Here go two...

#1. A fifth female Turtle is NOT a bad idea, but it is very hard to get right.

#2. Venus de Milo was a better try than Jennika... because Jennika was a mutated human, and not originally a Turtle.

[ZariusTwo]

-IDW is terrible.-Rise is great, or i guess WAS.People hated it because it was something new, which is just what the franchise needed after two decent highly popular incarnations had largely depended on nostalgia, that being Nick and IDW.

People hated it because it sucked.

As for IDW and Nick 2012..easy to see why they were more successful. Don't fix what's not broken. Be jealous.

[D-ray]

Tmnt 2 Battle Nexus is a masterpiece.
Change my mind.

[Wesley]

Tmnt 2 Battle Nexus is a masterpiece.
Change my mind.

I didn’t care much for the gameplay tbh, but to be fair, I’m not a beat-em-up fan anyway. Original character Slashurr was awesome and the anime-seque cutscenes were well done, though.

[D-ray]

I didn’t care much for the gameplay tbh, but to be fair, I’m not a beat-em-up fan anyway. Original character Slashurr was awesome and the anime-seque cutscenes were well done, though.
"BEHOLD MY POWER!"

He could have been a nice character. Even tho he had a weird context in the games.

[pferreira]

2k3 has it's moments, but is largely boring, has terrible voice acting, has the least interesting versions of Splinter and April, of all the animated shows, and every single thing they do with Shredder makes him less interesting and a total joke.

The overly grim self serious tone doesn't work, for the most part, because the voice acting is so OTT, the dialogue is usually bad and every attempt at a joke falls flat, like it was written by someone who has never heard a joke or wit before.If I have to use this thread to be critical of the 2003 series it's that it tried so hard to be gritty and dark the humorous or comedic moments came across forced. It fell into the trap most contemporary TV has in having a tone and characters taking extreme sides rather than having a balance like the 80's cartoon did. With the 80's cartoon you never get the impression they're trying too hard to make the show funny or serious.

Tmnt 2 Battle Nexus is a masterpiece.
Change my mind.Yeah sure, controls and jumping. :D

[mikey0]

The first basic assortment figures from the original Playmates TMNT toy line was all that needed to be made.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

With the 80's cartoon you never get the impression they're trying too hard to make the show funny or serious.

Red Sky.....?

[Leo656]

I don't think Red Sky "tried too hard" to be serious, but rather, it was trying to evolve into something more typical of what early-90s action cartoons had become by that point, and that simply wasn't compatible with the first seven or whatever seasons of the show as it had existed. The disconnect was rather jarring; It's like there was a hard reboot over the summer break between seasons or something, that's why it felt so ill-fitting. But if they show had been like that from the very beginning, nobody would accuse it of being overly serious or trying too hard. It's fairly middle of the road as far as action cartoons go. It just doesn't mesh with the early seasons well and feels like almost a different show at times, especially since they sh*tcanned the entire supporting cast and started over with new villains.

It's like if Batman Forever and Batman & Robin had come out first, and THEN Burton's two Batman movies happened afterwards. That's how the TMNT series played out during the late seasons' transition.

The first basic assortment figures from the original Playmates TMNT toy line was all that needed to be made.

I'm sorry, this is "Unpopular Opinions", not "Opinions that anyone can see are clearly wrong." :trazz:

Kidding, kinda. I don't really have as much love for that line as most people here do, as I barely collected it, and avoided most of it like the plague because I hated most of the silly variants. I will say, though, they needed to hang on long enough to give us a better Shredder than that awful first one, which they did, eventually. So I can forgive SOME of the line's transgressions later on.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I thought season 7 was a decent segway into the Red Sky seasons.

While the show's violence slowly started to creep back in somewhere around season 5 after having been heavily censored, it was season 7 which was really standout for being quite a bit more serious than what came before it.

Even the final episode of the "Blue Sky" era, has villains being much meaner, and the ending frame is of a sunset as Splinter warns the turtles that the villains are still out there, and a threat despite no longer having the technodrome.

Quite fitting in my opinion.

[Leo656]

To be honest it's been a while so I'll take your word for it.

There's stuff about the FW show I like a lot - primarily the earliest stuff and some of the stuff near the end - but every time I try to do a marathon or whatever I hit a brick wall. Last time I tried, those European Vacation episodes had me ready to quit on the whole series forever. Didn't make it past them and haven't really tried since.

I do remember being totally "WTF?" when I turned the show on one day as a kid and it was suddenly the Red Sky stuff. Took a minute to get used to it, but I actually liked it for what it was. I'd watched the FW show religiously every single day up until like 1991 but after that I only checked in once in a while because I was kinda over it. The Red Sky seasons at least seemed like it wasn't the same old thing for the millionth time, which is what made me lose interest along the way around the midpoint of the series.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

To be honest it's been a while so I'll take your word for it.

There's stuff about the FW show I like a lot - primarily the earliest stuff and some of the stuff near the end - but every time I try to do a marathon or whatever I hit a brick wall. Last time I tried, those European Vacation episodes had me ready to quit on the whole series forever. Didn't make it past them and haven't really tried since.

I do remember being totally "WTF?" when I turned the show on one day as a kid and it was suddenly the Red Sky stuff. Took a minute to get used to it, but I actually liked it for what it was. I'd watched the FW show religiously every single day up until like 1991 but after that I only checked in once in a while because I was kinda over it. The Red Sky seasons at least seemed like it wasn't the same old thing for the millionth time, which is what made me lose interest along the way around the midpoint of the series.

You actually made all the way to European vacation? Assuming the "traditional" viewing order of episodes which puts European vacation right before season 7, you sat through a truck load of episodes on a rewatch which I'm surprised you did considering your opinion on the show :lol:

And you were only a little away from the good part of season 7 which trust me, is a hundred times better than European Vacation (weird how European vacation is considered to be season 7 despite clearly taking place in season 4).

Next time you think of rewatching the show, I would suggest that just watching season 7 alone might not be a bad idea (it's only 14 episodes long, and one of the best seasons in terms of animation, action and side characters like the Rat King, Baxter, Triceratons, Neutrinos etc.)

[mikey0]

I don't think Red Sky "tried too hard" to be serious, but rather, it was trying to evolve into something more typical of what early-90s action cartoons had become by that point, and that simply wasn't compatible with the first seven or whatever seasons of the show as it had existed. The disconnect was rather jarring; It's like there was a hard reboot over the summer break between seasons or something, that's why it felt so ill-fitting. But if they show had been like that from the very beginning, nobody would accuse it of being overly serious or trying too hard. It's fairly middle of the road as far as action cartoons go. It just doesn't mesh with the early seasons well and feels like almost a different show at times, especially since they sh*tcanned the entire supporting cast and started over with new villains.

It's like if Batman Forever and Batman & Robin had come out first, and THEN Burton's two Batman movies happened afterwards. That's how the TMNT series played out during the late seasons' transition.



I'm sorry, this is "Unpopular Opinions", not "Opinions that anyone can see are clearly wrong." :trazz:

Kidding, kinda. I don't really have as much love for that line as most people here do, as I barely collected it, and avoided most of it like the plague because I hated most of the silly variants. I will say, though, they needed to hang on long enough to give us a better Shredder than that awful first one, which they did, eventually. So I can forgive SOME of the line's transgressions later on.

I think Playmates was having a difficult time going between Shredder from the comic book and Fred Wolf Shredder, so they gave him the Skeletor treatment, but with a cape and belt.

[Leo656]

You actually made all the way to European vacation? Assuming the "traditional" viewing order of episodes which puts European vacation right before season 7, you sat through a truck load of episodes on a rewatch which I'm surprised you did considering your opinion on the show :lol:

And you were only a little away from the good part of season 7 which trust me, is a hundred times better than European Vacation (weird how European vacation is considered to be season 7 despite clearly taking place in season 4).

Next time you think of rewatching the show, I would suggest that just watching season 7 alone might not be a bad idea (it's only 14 episodes long, and one of the best seasons in terms of animation, action and side characters like the Rat King, Baxter, Triceratons, Neutrinos etc.)

I'm more complicated than my posts would necessarily indicate. :lol: Sometimes I can handle certain things better if I'm in a certain mood. Huge chunks of the FW cartoon are like that. There's not a ton about it I outright "hate" even though I've been accused of bashing it many times, although there are definitely a few I strongly, STRONGLY dislike. Some of them I liked more as a kid and can handle better now for nostalgia sake, despite them objectively being rather poor, for example... I'unno, lots of variables.

I'd honestly say that the scale is tipped far heavier towards the "Like" than "Dislike" on the whole, even if it doesn't come off that way sometimes. But some of the stuff is undeniably pretty bad and I don't much believe in sacred cows. Those European episodes, for example, were just plain poorly made and I would hope that the creators felt at least a little bit of shame. As you've pointed out, there were lots of much better episodes within fairly close proximity to those.

This cartoon definitely needed some Lithium. :lol:

...Because it was Bipolar. Ba-dum-tsh!

...That's a little joke for those of us who've been "treated and released". :trazz: Others may not get it.

I think Playmates was having a difficult time going between Shredder from the comic book and Fred Wolf Shredder, so they have him the Skeletor treatment, but with a cape and belt.

Interesting point! Still a pretty junky figure all things considered. Once I acquired a Super-Shredder he became my permanent Playmates display Shredder.

[pferreira]

Red Sky.....?Tonally it's true they did try to make it more serious with the Red Sky era (and failed because it was jarring) but for most of the run it was consistent.

[Galactus]

Tonally it's true they did try to make it more serious with the Red Sky era (and failed because it was jarring) but for most of the run it was consistent.

The Red Sky seasons "failed' because the show was in its eight year and most kids had outgrown it.

[neatoman]

The Red Sky seasons "failed' because the show was in its eight year and most kids had outgrown it.

And as evidenced by the short episode count of those seasons, I'd say the show had probably lost it's popularity before they began airing. Nobody makes cartoon seasons shorter than 13 episodes under normal circumstances.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

It was probably somewhere around late season 4/early season 5 that the show's mass popularity began to fade.

It's a miracle that we got those last few closure-providing episodes at all, since Ninja turtles had become so obscure by 1996 that most people didn't even know that the show was still going.

[Andrew NDB]

I admit, the last time I popped in a DVD with FW episodes on it (and boy, that was some time ago), when that theme kicked in on the first episode I felt a positive rush of warm nostalgia wash over me. I felt giddy. It continued into... maybe the next 6 or 7 episodes. Then I totally lost interest. I'd had my "fix."

A lot like when I popped in DS9 and VOY and watched the opening credits sequences. Awesome, it took me back. The difference with these being that I actually keep on watching because they're good shows.

[mikey0]

Interesting point! Still a pretty junky figure all things considered. Once I acquired a Super-Shredder he became my permanent Playmates display Shredder.

The ‘88 Shredder did not look too out of place with the other figures. The turtles did not wear double belt straps in the cartoon either. Neither did Raph have Sai carriers on his belt. The way I see it, the original Playmates toy line is another adaption of the TMNT. It was different from the comic book, Fred Wolf TV show, and movie universes.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I admit, the last time I popped in a DVD with FW episodes on it (and boy, that was some time ago), when that theme kicked in on the first episode I felt a positive rush of warm nostalgia wash over me. I felt giddy. It continued into... maybe the next 6 or 7 episodes. Then I totally lost interest. I'd had my "fix."

A lot like when I popped in DS9 and VOY and watched the opening credits sequences. Awesome, it took me back. The difference with these being that I actually keep on watching because they're good shows.

I'm actually pleasently surprised you made it that far, considering that the first 5 episodes of the show are basically like a movie that you can enjoy on its own due to being so tight-knit and self-contained.

Curious if you don't mind me asking, when was it you last watched those first few FW episodes?

[Andrew NDB]

Curious if you don't mind me asking, when was it you last watched those first few FW episodes?

Somewhere around 2012, when I was showing my daughter cartoons.

[pferreira]

A lot like when I popped in DS9 and VOY and watched the opening credits sequences. Awesome, it took me back. The difference with these being that I actually keep on watching because they're good shows.Yea DS9 and Voyager had issues as well... :roll:

[Wesley]

Yea DS9 and Voyager had issues as well... :roll:

Never watched DS9, but I agree about Voyager.

[pferreira]

Never watched DS9, but I agree about Voyager.Ironically my issues with Voyager are not the same as other people's. :lol:

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

The 'Red Sky' seasons had a better theme than the 'Blue Sky' seasons. The original theme gets on my nerves

[Leo656]

Hmm. Hmm! Interesting position.

Not sure I completely agree - although I'll forever be mad at the original theme for leaving us permanently stuck with "Heroes in a Half-Shell", which is such a stupid and embarrassing nonsense phrase that nonetheless is the very first thing everyone references when they talk about TMNT, besides "Cowabunga" and pizza. I will say, however, that the Red Sky theme song definitely fit those seasons' episodes far better than the original theme song would have. That jokey, pun-filled, and upbeat theme wouldn't have fit well at all with the more serious vibe they were going for with the last few seasons; I definitely, definitely feel you on that.

There's an "Unpopular TMNT Opinion" for ya. "Heroes in a Half-Shell" is dumb, cram it with walnuts and burn it. For one, they have whole shells, and two, they're not a delicacy on the menu at a Maine seafood restaurant, for pity's sake. Yet another example of the show being more comedy than anything else; the theme song itself makes fun of the entire concept by making a very terrible pun. And it's the most enduring thing from the entire show. Just awful. It's not a term of endearment, I don't know why it's so enduring. It's just dumb.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

It might be that I've simply heard the original theme so much that if i was granted with Immortality and today was the last day I'd ever heard it, then it'd still be too soon since I'd heard it last.

Heroes in a Half Shell is definitely stupid. It doesn't them at all. It's like Batman being called 'The Caped Crusader'. Maybe in the Silver age, but now, in a comic time when the Joker tore his face off and then bandaged it back on? It just clashes so much

[Leo656]

:lol: Well, he definitely is a crusader and he definitely wears a cape, so at the very least it's accurate if not tonally-fitting. But yeah, I do believe that most people compartmentalize "Caped Crusader" Batman as being mostly the 60s and 70 version, while "The Dark Knight" has been the more apt descriptor since the 80s. Like I've heard people refer to the Neal Adams years as "The Caped Crusader Era" and that feels pretty accurate.

"Heroes in a Half-Shell" is just a very bad pun and otherwise nonsensical. No value in it whatsoever. Classic "It's funny when you're 6, so let's keep it around forever" nonsense.

And it wasn't funny when I was 6, either.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Mako : Green Hornet , MASH , Conan films

[Hamato Yoshi]

Turtle Power is like some Elvis songs (Moody Blue or Suspicious Minds) as soon as you hear those first notes you immidiately recognize it

[Hamato Yoshi]

"Ali G stopped being cool in like... 2005?"

Ali G : Youre mongolian , as in retarded. Imma never stopped being cool and down with it , only butty boys thinks otherwise.

:lol::P

(a joke , lighten up......)

[Hamato Yoshi]

I think the first Shredder figure is cool despite bare chested

[Musashi]

I think the first Shredder figure is cool despite bare chested

Strangely, I only saw that thing for the first time recently, in a video. Don't remember ever seeing it around c.1989-90 in the UK, although I did have one of the Turtles. Bare-chested... Why?

Edit: Apparently I've graduated to being a thug. :)

Another edit: Oh, I know. I bet they reused the torso of a figure from another range entirely. Rocky, maybe?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

There hasn't been a single TMNT game that I think is a classic. The arcade games were fun, but they're just borderline generic beat em ups. The 2003 games were good as well, but still not that great.

It's strange really. Batman has had the Arkham games and Spider-man has had 2 PS1 games, Spider-Man 2 (not the pc version) and the amazing recent PS4 game.

i'm waiting for a company to come along and make a game that's to the TMNT what Arkham Asylum/City was to Batman

[Leo656]

Never happen. The license costs too much and "TMNT is just for little kids". No developer worth sh*t is ever gonna be able to take a swing and do anything meaningful so long as Nick/Viacom owns it.

"Mutants In Manhattan" is most likely as good as it's ever gonna get for a long, long time as far as video games. Once your brand is slapped with the "Kids' Property" label, everybody stops trying hard, because "It's for kids! They're stupid, they won't know!"

So yeah, there's not gonna be a TMNT game that's "Arkham" level. It's not even a "maybe", it's just not gonna happen, period.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

It's a double-edged sword. On one hand, if the 80s show never happened, Ninja Turtles wouldn't be seen as a kid's property and companies would be more interested to make an Arkham level game. But at the same time the franchise wouldn't have got popular enough to get an Arkham level game.

[Leo656]

Getting popular is the worst thing that can ever happen to anything.

Once you have to dumb everything down for the lowest common denominator, all heart and soul is gone, and all that's left is the cynical search for profit.

You can create for Artistic reasons OR for Profit reasons, but not both at once. Any time Art is created for Profit, it's prostitution. Period.

Which doesn't mean there can't still be something "good" or enjoyable to come from it. I'm sure sex with a prostitute is fun, I honestly wouldn't know. But it's exactly the same in that "love" has nothing to do with anything that's going on on either side.

[PizzaPower1985]

Hi guys, haven't been on here in nearly 2.5 years but just wanted to get back here to start participating again (hope some of u remember me?)

Ok let's see,

My unpopular opinions:

-- The 87 Toon is only good for 4 seasons: 1, 8, 9, 10 (The Pilot Season and Red Sky Seasons)

-- The 1990 film is the greatest TMNT thing EVER... better than all comics, toons, toys etc. But I still love the comics, some toons, toys etc.

-- The 2012 show was terrible. It seems at times even sillier than the 87 toon and I can't understand why anyone older than 12 gives it any credence.

-- The IDW Comics are the best TMNT comic series but it has gone on too long. I have only collected up to City At War and haven't read it yet but I AM THRILLED that the series is stopping (hiatus?)

-- TMNT 3 (1993) is a better film than the 2007 movie, which is decent for what is it but they really dropped the ball because TMNT 2007 could have been great.

-- Rise of the TMNT is a missed opportunity and sadly, another kiddie project. Nickelodeon (with the exception of the Waltz comics) has treated TMNT terribly.

[MikeandRaph87]

- The IDW Comics are the best TMNT comic series but it has gone on too long. I have only collected up to City At War and haven't read it yet but I AM THRILLED that the series is stopping (hiatus?)

-- sadly, another kiddie project. Nickelodeon (with the exception of the Waltz comics) has treated TMNT terribly.

Actually the whole comic industry is on hiatus. I am hopeful with June it will resume. I admit though this first arc post-#100 is the worst one since # 13-#14. I hope it will pick up after whatever status quo is finished setting up with #105. I want to get the issue out of the way and learn what Shredder and Krang are up to and see what is lurking in the sewer. I couldn't care less about Mutant Town. Its been the best thing post-sale and perhaps the best TMNT comic. Hopefully it will keep going for a long time we just hit a stretch that does not interest me personally.

[Garfield]

Tmnt 2 Battle Nexus is a masterpiece.
Change my mind.

I remember really wanting to play that game when it came out, But I never got around to it. and my PS2 died some years back and I don't think I'll ever buy another one so I'm not likely to ever play that game. I remember being excited because you can play as Karai in it.

Here a unpopular one. The Neca Turtles figures from 2008 are very popular but I don't quite like the look of them, they have weird "giraffe" necks, and that always caused them to look off to me.

[Wesley]

Fast Forward is underrated. Would’ve been great to get a second season instead of BTTS.

[PizzaPower1985]

If I haven't echoed or implied this enough already (since we're on unpopular opinions)... Everything that is not serious, half-way mature TMNT with slight comedic effects thrown in NEEDS TO DIE and BE BURIED 200 FEET IN THE GROUND FOREVER. The TMNT needs to turn around. The 2K3 4Kids tone is damn near perfect. The dark aesthetics of RED SKY is damn near perfect. Most of Mirage Vol. 1 (that tried to tell actual compelling stories with decent art) is damn near perfect. We can let the kids have their plush dolls, lunchboxes, bedsheets, food products, underoos etc. GOING FORWARD, no more TMNT for little kids, I say. And if I ruled the universe, the first 4 seasons of 2K3 would go on as long as The Simpsons has been on the air. Mirage Vol. 1 would have never stopped, OT would have been closer in writing to 2K3 with a visual look of Red Sky. ALL OF Michael Bay Films would NOT exist and he wouldnt even be in the film business.

RED SKY is what the OT should have been from episode 1. The HELL with England for banning "Ninja" and "chucks."

[Jephael]

I'm not too crazy about Casey Jones... atleast not as a main character anyway. I liked him in the movies and his special guest appearances in the original cartoon, but I got real tired of seeing his meathead antics in like every other episode of the 2003 cartoon. Then when they introduced him in the 2012 series, it was like way worse because now they turned him into this obnoxious 16 year-old with no internal filter

[PizzaPower1985]

I'm not too crazy about Casey Jones... atleast not as a main character anyway. I liked him in the movies and his special guest appearances in the original cartoon, but I got real tired of seeing his meathead antics in like every other episode of the 2003 cartoon. Then when they introduced him in the 2012 series, it was like way worse because now they turned him into this obnoxious 16 year-old with no internal filter

Casey is really best in the 1990 movie. In the IDW comic book he's not a meathead at all and in the original Mirage comic, he's got some really great character development.

[mikey0]

The FW cartoon (1987 miniseries, 1988 syndication series, 1990 CBS Saturday morning cartoon series) was better than the original toy line by Playmates.

[Zany Orange Dude]

Rise of TMNT isn't a terrible cartoon *dodges thrown pitch fork*. It's very well animated and is just doing something different with the turtles. Not the way I'd want the turtles to be presented forever, but certainly enjoyable for a singular series.

[Wesley]

As I said on another forum, III is not as good as the 1990 movie but it’s better than most of the others, though 2007 came close.

[Galactus]

April O'Neil is not really necessary. She's the first human connection the turtles have and a sense of tradition keeps that as one of the few consistent things in the franchise. Beyond that story she's not really important hence why every version has reinvented her to the point she's a completely different character with the same name.

Even in Mirage she's not really that consistent, she's a lab tech, then runs the Second Time Around store, randomly she's a waitress in one of the Northampton based issues which is never referenced again. You could argue her presence grounds the turtles but the turtles themselves have fully realised personalities I'm not sure it is entirely necessary.

Another unpopular opinion is I don't hate Zack from the '87 show. He's an okay enough kid sidekick character and The Fifth Turtle is one of the series strongest episodes. The Missing Map is also a good one, Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer the Universe is the last good Zack centric episode. While not an episode that revolves around him his role in Shredderville is good as well being a standout episode its own right.

Yet another unpopular opinion is that I kinda like Fast Forward. Outside of a few episodes it doesn't really 'feel' like TMNT show so much as a show with TMNT in it but it's well made as a Saturday Morning version of Futurama (they even recycle some if the sane jokes). I echo the above statement that I'd have preferred a second season of that than Back To The Sewers with the final episode them returning to the present.

[Leo656]

I keep saying, somebody needs to reinvent Zack as bitter, abandoned ex-sidekick type of super-villain. Like Fight-Man's former sidekick, Kid Fight-Man, who after becoming disfigured, reinvented himself as the evil Hooded Eye and set all of Fight-Man's many, many, many enemies out to kill him once and for all.

Yeah, I know some Marvel sh*t, f*ckers. :trazz:

But yeah, that'd be something cool for Zack to do. He wants to kill them because they moved and never wrote him back, or something dumb like that. Doesn't really matter why, give him a cape and a mask and some kind of gizmo and you got yourself a super-villain, friend. One that knows all of their secrets!

Of course, they know all of his, too. Like that dream he told them he had about Caitlyn, once. So maybe that's why he doesn't go after them; everybody on both sides knows entirely too much, so they're at a stalemate. :lol:

Still. It's an idea.

[PizzaPower1985]

April O'Neil is not really necessary. She's the first human connection the turtles have and a sense of tradition keeps that as one of the few consistent things in the franchise. Beyond that story she's not really important hence why every version has reinvented her to the point she's a completely different character with the same name.

Even in Mirage she's not really that consistent, she's a lab tech, then runs the Second Time Around store, randomly she's a waitress in one of the Northampton based issues which is never referenced again. You could argue her presence grounds the turtles but the turtles themselves have fully realised personalities I'm not sure it is entirely necessary.

I would argue that, because of tradition, Ms. O'neil has become quite necessary. And quite essential... Now, THE REST of your argument can be rationalized because you are stating some extremely fair and accurate points about one of my fav. TMNT characters that don't come around too often. After 35+ years though, maybe her inconsistencies throughout media are a positive force for the franchise itself.

I once saw a blog about the inconsistencies in art style for April in the Mirage canon that was yet another attempt at trying to "prove" that April was a black woman. She's not (maybe she could have been if Kevin and Peter had explicitly stated so, but I believe those were just different aesthetic interpretations). I think at this point April is so integral, partly because she can be reinvented to fit a particular iteration and add a new wrinkle to the mythology, perhaps to shed a new light on other existing characters and move the franchise along into something no one has ever thought about or seen before. That said, some of the decisions that have been made with her (her age in the 2012 show, or having any member of the TMNT pine over her in some kind of implied possible romance) have been terrible.

My ideal April... A 25 or 26 year old, red-haired woman, a busty lady (one of the best things the 87 show did with her design), who is either an assistant at Stockman's lab as an aspiring computer technician (my actual profession) or is already a highly sought after techie with a couple years of experience who can set her own salary because she's so damn competent. In college, she perhaps minored in broadcast journalism and worked as a waitress to put herself through school. She also has taken self defense classes so maybe that puts her on a path to becoming a student of Splinter's and a highly trained martial artist in the future. She will also eventually be very taken with and fall head over heels, madly in love with Casey Jones. They will be married and Shadow Jones will be their BIOLOGICAL daughter. That's what I want to see in April O'neil... but again, she has to be built in all the right places because sex appeal is an important part of fiction.

[Powder]

April O'Neil is not really necessary. She's the first human connection the turtles have and a sense of tradition keeps that as one of the few consistent things in the franchise. Beyond that story she's not really important hence why every version has reinvented her to the point she's a completely different character with the same name.

Even in Mirage she's not really that consistent, she's a lab tech, then runs the Second Time Around store, randomly she's a waitress in one of the Northampton based issues which is never referenced again. You could argue her presence grounds the turtles but the turtles themselves have fully realised personalities I'm not sure it is entirely necessary.

Another unpopular opinion is I don't hate Zack from the '87 show. He's an okay enough kid sidekick character and The Fifth Turtle is one of the series strongest episodes. The Missing Map is also a good one, Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer the Universe is the last good Zack centric episode. While not an episode that revolves around him his role in Shredderville is good as well being a standout episode its own right.

Yet another unpopular opinion is that I kinda like Fast Forward. Outside of a few episodes it doesn't really 'feel' like TMNT show so much as a show with TMNT in it but it's well made as a Saturday Morning version of Futurama (they even recycle some if the sane jokes). I echo the above statement that I'd have preferred a second season of that than Back To The Sewers with the final episode them returning to the present.

I share all of these, right on.

[Galactus]

Of course, they know all of his, too. Like that dream he told them he had about Caitlyn, once. So maybe that's why he doesn't go after them; everybody on both sides knows entirely too much, so they're at a stalemate. :lol:

Why would he embarrassed about a dream about Caitlyn? His dream about Casey on the other hand...

I would argue that, because of tradition, Ms. O'neil has become quite necessary. And quite essential... Now, THE REST of your argument can be rationalized because you are stating some extremely fair and accurate points about one of my fav. TMNT characters that don't come around too often. After 35+ years though, maybe her inconsistencies throughout media are a positive force for the franchise itself.

I once saw a blog about the inconsistencies in art style for April in the Mirage canon that was yet another attempt at trying to "prove" that April was a black woman. She's not (maybe she could have been if Kevin and Peter had explicitly stated so, but I believe those were just different aesthetic interpretations). I think at this point April is so integral, partly because she can be reinvented to fit a particular iteration and add a new wrinkle to the mythology, perhaps to shed a new light on other existing characters and move the franchise along into something no one has ever thought about or seen before. That said, some of the decisions that have been made with her (her age in the 2012 show, or having any member of the TMNT pine over her in some kind of implied possible romance) have been terrible.

The belief from some fans that the Mirage April is black or Hispanic has been there since the comics were first published as she is kinda drawn in a way that suggests it and one (admittedly non canon) issue has her as a black woman. It's no surprise that Kevin based her on his non white girlfriend, I suspect that in his own personal head canon he always thought of April as a black woman.

I'd argue the fact that the fact that even her two creators were not on the same page at her inception only adds to the reason why she is so inconsistent from version to version. Whether that is a good thing is up for, the fact that there are versions that are conceptually weaker than others shows that April being carte blanch character is not always a good thing.

[PizzaPower1985]

The belief from some fans that the Mirage April is black or Hispanic has been there since the comics were first published as she is kinda drawn in a way that suggests it and one (admittedly non canon) issue has her as a black woman. It's no surprise that Kevin based her on his non white girlfriend, I suspect that in his own personal head canon he always thought of April as a black woman.

I'd argue the fact that the fact that even her two creators were not on the same page at her inception only adds to the reason why she is so inconsistent from version to version. Whether that is a good thing is up for, the fact that there are versions that are conceptually weaker than others shows that April being carte blanch character is not always a good thing.

But being able to reinvent April, not out of whole cloth, but adding new traits to her character makes things fresh. Granted as you implied and as I said, that's not always for the better when creators do stupid sh*t like de-age her. She should definitely have some consistency based out of her most popular versions, i.e she should be a news reporter or a techie programmer, (all long-running franchise characters in fiction should be adapted from known or popular versions) but adding new traits and new things on the surface can build character.

[TommyT]

There is no such thing a Black April.

In the 80's people got PERMS. It was a huge fad, tight silly perms. It's like the people here skipped over the 80's.

https://i.imgur.com/HV0BcNN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OlxbCvX.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8384/8460554828_fe7bd4a607_b.jpg

[FredWolfLeonardo]

http://tmntentity.blogspot.com/2018/02/was-april-oneil-originally-black-in.html?m=1

A great article by Mark Pellegrini that analyzes whether April was originally black.

[Galactus]

There are literally two Black Aprils. Rise Of...and TMNT Vol.1 #32.

The confusion over Mirage April's race and ethnicity was not something that started recently and it is rooted in Kevin Eastman trying to make April look like he's real life girlfriend at the time. As far as Laird is concerned April is white but Kevin at the time was trying to make it ambiguous hence when he got his first opportunity to depict her in colour (admittedly in a non canon issue) she was black.

Hmmm. Could this count as an unpopular opinion?

[CyberCubed]

Yet another unpopular opinion is that I kinda like Fast Forward. Outside of a few episodes it doesn't really 'feel' like TMNT show so much as a show with TMNT in it but it's well made as a Saturday Morning version of Futurama (they even recycle some if the sane jokes). I echo the above statement that I'd have preferred a second season of that than Back To The Sewers with the final episode them returning to the present.

I don't think it's unpopular to say you liked Fast Forward anymore. Besides the animation changes and some of the catch phrases, the season had as much continuity and action as the seasons before. It's just all in the future and the worse eps stick out the most (all the Triple Threat eps were terrible, lol), but the best eps of the season were really good.

I also do not dislike Cody. They could have made him the usual Scrappy Doo kid sidekick character, and in some eps he was kinda like that, but they paced him well so he never felt like he was taking the show over from the Turtles. He also had some nice character development.

[Xav]

There are literally two Black Aprils. Rise Of...and TMNT Vol.1 #32.

The confusion over Mirage April's race and ethnicity was not something that started recently and it is rooted in Kevin Eastman trying to make April look like he's real life girlfriend at the time. As far as Laird is concerned April is white but Kevin at the time was trying to make it ambiguous hence when he got his first opportunity to depict her in color (admittedly in a non canon issue) she was black.That's not true. The first time Kevin depict her in color was in the First Comics collection where she was white and the cover of #32 was done by Eastman and she was also white. The color reprint was done by Bill Fitts not Eastman.

[Galactus]

^^^

Fair points. I should clarify that the first opportunity he got to make an original colour story he decided to make her Black which suggests to me in his mind he saw April as a Black woman even if it wasn't canon with what he and Peter worked on together.

[Wesley]

I don't think it's unpopular to say you liked Fast Forward anymore. Besides the animation changes and some of the catch phrases, the season had as much continuity and action as the seasons before. It's just all in the future and the worse eps stick out the most (all the Triple Threat eps were terrible, lol), but the best eps of the season were really good.

I also do not dislike Cody. They could have made him the usual Scrappy Doo kid sidekick character, and in some eps he was kinda like that, but they paced him well so he never felt like he was taking the show over from the Turtles. He also had some nice character development.

What CyberCubed said. I’ll add that the FF theme has grown on me (used to hate it lol) and has become one of my favourite tv theme songs. And Back to the Sewers’ one ain’t half-bad either.

[PizzaPower1985]

There is no such thing a Black April.

In the 80's people got PERMS. It was a huge fad, tight silly perms. It's like the people here skipped over the 80's.

https://i.imgur.com/HV0BcNN.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/OlxbCvX.jpg
https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8384/8460554828_fe7bd4a607_b.jpg

I didn't skip over the 80's and I don't think anyone here on the forums actually believes April was ever supposed to be black, despite whatever ideas Eastman may have toyed with. Perms look great on many ladies and should never have gone out of style. If anyone, Dromer or otherwise, believes April to be a woman of color because of her haircut, maybe they did miss the 80's completely.

But yeah, as far as April being unneccessary to the TMNT because of inconsistencies or reinventions, I don't agree with that at all.

[Leo656]

I think April is necessary in the way that, say, Lana Lang is to the Superman mythos. As in she has an important role in the larger story but the story isn't about her. She doesn't need to be a constant primary factor, and she shouldn't be the driving force of too many stories.

I actually don't have a big problem with the basic idea of her picking up some basic martial arts skills, either, as is sometimes portrayed, because a lot of friends who hang out often kind of absorb or at least show an interest in their friends' hobbies. And since the Turtles care about her, it only makes sense that they'd want her to be able to take care of and protect herself. But stuff like her kicking Karai's ass or having solo "ninja adventures" is a bit too far in my opinion.

I wouldn't excise her from any version of the TMNT canon, but I think at times a lot of writers can't resist the temptation to make her a bigger part of the story than she needs to or was ever intended to be.

[PizzaPower1985]

I think April is necessary in the way that, say, Lana Lang is to the Superman mythos. As in she has an important role in the larger story but the story isn't about her. She doesn't need to be a constant primary factor, and she shouldn't be the driving force of too many stories.

I actually don't have a big problem with the basic idea of her picking up some basic martial arts skills, either, as is sometimes portrayed, because a lot of friends who hang out often kind of absorb or at least show an interest in their friends' hobbies. And since the Turtles care about her, it only makes sense that they'd want her to be able to take care of and protect herself. But stuff like her kicking Karai's ass or having solo "ninja adventures" is a bit too far in my opinion.

I wouldn't excise her from any version of the TMNT canon, but I think at times a lot of writers can't resist the temptation to make her a bigger part of the story than she needs to or was ever intended to be.

I am in complete agreement with everything here. She can occasionally be further developed in her own plots or subplots but remains most effective as a supporting character.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I think the TMNT are best with a very small roster of supporting characters, mutants and humans alike.

I like my TMNT alone and isolated, with few social connections. Giving them a Rolodex full of backup and support makes them much less interesting.

[mikey0]

The basic versions of turtles and Shredder always outsold the other mutants and humans in the HW Bush era. April and the Foot Soldier were short-packed.

[PizzaPower1985]

Echoing what CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy said...

I definitely agree that the TMNT shouldn't have too many supporting characters. Barring April/Casey/Splinter none are really essential. And the villain roster, well, Shredder should be #1 but it's nice when he's out of the picture too and the TMNT can just go up against different kinds of threats to make the stories more introspective and deep. In Mirage Vol.1, the best stories are the ones that explore character depth and don't have to just be about ninja action or crazy sci-fi adventure.

[Leo656]

Echoing what CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy said...


It's okay to call him CKD. Bitch don't return calls any damn way. :lol:

Course, once you really get to know him, you find out that he likes his hair pulled during coitus and that his safety word is "banana." And by that point, you know a lot more than you wanted to in the first place. :trazz:

But yeah, CKD is fine, you can call him that. :tgrin:

[PizzaPower1985]

It's okay to call him CKD. Bitch don't return calls any damn way. :lol:

Course, once you really get to know him, you find out that he likes his hair pulled during coitus and that his safety word is "banana." And by that point, you know a lot more than you wanted to in the first place. :trazz:

But yeah, CKD is fine, you can call him that. :tgrin:

LOL. Okay... CKD it is. OMG. Haha!

[Wesley]

Echoing what CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy said...

I definitely agree that the TMNT shouldn't have too many supporting characters. Barring April/Casey/Splinter none are really essential. And the villain roster, well, Shredder should be #1 but it's nice when he's out of the picture too and the TMNT can just go up against different kinds of threats to make the stories more introspective and deep.

Agreed. Some of the best episodes in the 2003 series were standalones such as The King, April’s Artifact and The Darkness Within.

[PizzaPower1985]

Agreed. Some of the best episodes in the 2003 series were standalones such as The King, April’s Artifact and The Darkness Within.

And for a long time I was a defender of IDW TMNT as the best iteration, but the amount of supporting cast eventually weighed the entire run down. I still love IDW's run, I just think we could have gotten 100 issues with more introspection, far less characters and far less connected stories that bleed into each other. That's the way Mirage did it and the setup of Mirage was better. I'm leaving after I get the last part of City at War and read it.

[CyberCubed]

The problem with IDW currently is the side characters are more important than the TMNT and tend to get bigger character arcs. Whereas for the Turtles they repeat the same things we've seen a million times over (Leo and Raph get into an argument and Raph storms off solo, or Michelangelo doesn't like what they're doing and needs to be reassured by his brothers, or Donatello has some problem with technology or making something), and it's usually covered in a few issues time and then they go back to square one...then they repeat it about 20 issues later.