10th anniversary of Turtles Forever

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

This month is 10 years since Turtles Forever first debuted over CW 4 Kids in July 2009, even if many didn't catch it until November the samey year. It tells the story of the Fred Wolf turtles and the 4 Kids turtles from two alternate Earths meeting.

http://www.ninjapizza.net/2009/07/

What were your thoughts back then, and what do you think of it now? Or do you want to share any specific memories related to this film? This is the anniversary thread.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Who are you talking to!

There's no one there!

[neatoman]

I thought it was a relatively good sendoff, in retrospect it might have been better to make a special purely focused on the 4Kids Turtles, for various reasons.

There's nothing really wrong with the special itself, it's a sevicable story and some of the meta references are pretty cool (I really like how it ends with Kevin and Peter putting the final touches on issue 1). The problems I have with it are mainly the impact it had on the fanbase and oddly enough the Nicktoon.

The "it's disrespectful" argument annoys me to no end, I really wish the people who make it would learn to drop the nostalgia goggles and accept there's merit in mocking the FW turtles, or at least understand why a "respectful" version wouldn't really work.

And then there's the fact that it "inspired" four episodes of the Nicktoon, episodes that are in fact little more than two poorly paced rehashes of this special. The first is a condensed remake and the others make up a remake of the parts they had to cut with with new filler between the gap. It was pretty pointless and those four episodes could have been dedicated to literally anything else, yet they chose to make two worse versions of something that had already been done decently well.

I seriously hope the "FW TMNT meets the most recent cartoon version!" idea is never done ever again and the cartoons become solely focused on moving forward.

[CyberCubed]

God I can't believe its been 10 years already. Sometimes it feels like only yesterday when this was announced or the 2k3 series was ending in general. I can't believe an entire decade has passed. I was only in my early 20's when this came out then, it's crazy to think about.

Dear god where does the time go? You can read some of my old posts from 2009 in the 4kids section where I was constantly whining about the old Fred Wolf voice actors not reprising their roles and instead getting sound-a-likes. Back then I had no clue about the whole VA licensing dispute between companies. I guess nowadays Viacom could technically re-dub the old Turtles lines but it's likely not worth the time or money to do.

God we're all so old now, it's ridiculous. 10 YEARS.

[cloud]

It still sucks that this movie didn't get the proper respect. It deserved a proper screening and a special edition DVD treatment.

Really enjoyed the movie and the extended cut.

[Shark_Blade]

I remember exhausting my phone data watching this movie on youtube. :tlol: It was split in several videos too.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

On its own, the special stands fairly well, with a pretty coherent story, some damn good animation (I especially like the portrayal of the Mirage universe), and some really good references (The Nose, Nose!), all the while not taking itself too seriously, with great jokes complimenting the action scenes.

However, my main and predictable issue with the special is namely that it falls short on the one issue that is arguably one of its biggest selling points, the attempt to bring back the 1987 universe, which ends up feeling like a parody of the show we all know in love, rather than a direct representation of the show itself.

Now, don't get me wrong, there was obviously effort and heart put into bringing back the 1987 universe in the special, but somewhere along the lines, it seems that the writers of Turtles Forever seemed to get their own idea of what the tone of the 1987 show should be like.

What we got in the end was a universe where the supposed 80s turtles are more hive-minded and have behavioral traits more reminiscent of Yakko, Wako and Dot, than their actual personalities from the cartoon.

Is it the worst thing ever though? Absolutely not.

Turtles Forever has a lot of awesome things in it, but it would've been even more awesome if we got the real 1987 turtles in it.

[Powder]

I loved it then, I love it now.

[80gmrp]

Good to know about the date. Never watched it, but I have heard about it. I guess the timing is a good reason to watch it soon, then?

[CyberCubed]

Good to know about the date. Never watched it, but I have heard about it. I guess the timing is a good reason to watch it soon, then?

If you watched the 2k3 series, Turtles Forever is basically the series finale.

[Coola Yagami]

That feeling you get where the people at that comic con were the only ones that got to see the full version of the movie. I don't know what they were thinking when they released the DVD. I've never seen a 'TV-edited' version of a movie bring released on home media, it's always meant to be the actual film.

Not much new to say. The 80's Turtles were messed up, and Leo never got to act like the leader, not even of his own team. He was just... there. Of course we know why they couldn't get the original voices but it really hurt the overall special.

[IndigoErth]

It's okay. I enjoy it, but I don't really feel it did either '87 or '03 groups of Turtles proper justice.

The problem with the '87 set and how they're portrayed is obvious. But having watched Turtles Forever before seeing the 2003 series (binge watched several summers ago), I have to be honest, it set me up to think the 2003 Turtles would have jerky personalities and I wasn't sure I was going to like them. I was glad to find that isn't really the case.

That said, I'd love to see another one done. So long as the '03 guys aren't ignored and get to participate again. And do '87 right. I'd love to see all their (various versions of Turtles) reactions to the 'Rise' bunch...

[Wesley]

10 years sounds about right. It’s still a decent enough movie, even though it has flaws. I first watched it (albeit the edited version) on YouTube in 2010. Parts of it were better for me the second time around especially a few scenes when I watched the unedited UK dvd a few years later. Nostalgia for the Fred Wolf toon clouded my judgment the first time, but like IndigoEarth said, I didn’t feel it did both groups of Turtles justice either on my second watch.

[turtle1237]

I didn't like it, I felt the movie was trying to tell every one that OUR version of TMNT is better than the 80's version, I don't recall the 80's Turtles crying and being cowards and giving each other noggies every 5 mins. People may like the film, but outside of the looks, this was NOT the 80's Turtles. It was a insult imo.

[Shark_Blade]

I didn't like it, I felt the movie was trying to tell every one that OUR version of TMNT is better than the 80's version, I don't recall the 80's Turtles crying and being cowards and giving each other noggies every 5 mins. People may like the film, but outside of the looks, this was NOT the 80's Turtles. It was a insult imo.

Somewhat agree. I watched the OT Season 1 dvd and they’re exceptionally great for its time (I somehow couldn't watch the later seasons due to different tone and drop of animation quality).

So Turtles Forever is not a good representation of OT. But hey, they got plenty of references and appearances in 2012 which 2k3 is sorely missing out on.

[turtle1237]

Somewhat agree. I watched the OT Season 1 dvd and they’re exceptionally great for its time (I somehow couldn't watch the later seasons due to different tone and drop of animation quality).

So Turtles Forever is not a good representation of OT. But hey, they got plenty of references and appearances in 2012 which 2k3 is sorely missing out on.

Tone may of been different in the later seasons, more jokes ete. But they still were serious when they needed to be. I didn't see the 80's Turtle in this movie at all. I cant recall them doing what they were doing in the movie at all. When were they crying if something scary show up?(The Killer Pizzas) Outside of it being part of the battle plan, they never ran from a battle also. The movie was pretty much calling the 80's turtles out right cowards. And don't get me started on the endless nuggies they were giving each other. I really don't see how people were defended this back in the day with the 80's turtles being goofy back in the day. Yeah they had there jokes, but they were not really "Goofy".

[ABrown]

I've hoped for years that the 10th anniversary of the movie would prompt Nickelodeon to give the movie a proper re-release. It would be a great opportunity to put out a blu-ray/dvd/digital combo pack (obviously with the movie in its ENTIRETY). Come on Nickelodeon, make it happen. I mean with Nickelodeon's obsession with the original cartoon, it doesn't seem like a far fetched idea.

[Coola Yagami]

Tone may of been different in the later seasons, more jokes ete. But they still were serious when they needed to be. I didn't see the 80's Turtle in this movie at all. I cant recall them doing what they were doing in the movie at all. When were they crying if something scary show up?(The Killer Pizzas) Outside of it being part of the battle plan, they never ran from a battle also. The movie was pretty much calling the 80's turtles out right cowards. And don't get me started on the endless nuggies they were giving each other. I really don't see how people were defended this back in the day with the 80's turtles being goofy back in the day. Yeah they had there jokes, but they were not really "Goofy".

Back then the humor relied more on the turtles taking the cartoonish and silly plots so seriously (while Raph would call it out sometimes) not that the turtles themselves were goofy. Sure they messed around on their down time but so did the 2K3 TMNT.

The weirdest thing was the noogie bit. Once was fine, though still odd since I don't recall them ever doing it on their show, but they did it like 3 or so times that it felt like they were trying to say it was a staple of the 80s TMNT just as much as Cowabunga was. That was a very weird addition. Unless the Forever writers thought everyone was giving everyone noogies in the 80s or something.

[Sumac]

10 years?
Crazy how time flies.

I liked it for what it was. It was the best send off to the Mirage era of the TMNT, franchise could possibly had.

[AquaParade]

I appreciate it as a send-off for that era of TMNT. The touch with Kevin and Peter at the end was nice too.

That said, it does next to nothing for me on an entertainment level. I find it quite boring to watch. Glad others appreciate it though.

[IndigoErth]

Been slowly rewatching it and yeah, no noogies and don't recall that ever being a thing even once. As for being scared and cowards, the only thing I can recall is ONE episode where Shredder/Krang had made a device that MADE everyone act that way, TMNT and humans alike, so it doesn't even count. (And even then, they forced themselves out there and faced it and saved the day yet again.)


edit: Besides... rub your knuckles on bare skin, it's like nothing. You kind of have to have hair for a noogie to matter. lol

[turtle1237]

Been slowly rewatching it and yeah, no noogies and don't recall that ever being a thing even once. As for being scared and cowards, the only thing I can recall is ONE episode where Shredder/Krang had made a device that MADE everyone act that way, TMNT and humans alike, so it doesn't even count. (And even then, they forced themselves out there and faced it and saved the day yet again.)


edit: Besides... rub your knuckles on bare skin, it's like nothing. You kind of have to have hair for a noogie to matter. lol

Yeah, I think that was in season 3??? It was some type of ray gun that did it. But still the Turtles did over come there fear to take down Shredder. If there was one cross over TMNT done right, its the 2012 Turtles and the 80's Turtles. I said it.

[cammy85]

Been slowly rewatching it and yeah, no noogies and don't recall that ever being a thing even once. As for being scared and cowards, the only thing I can recall is ONE episode where Shredder/Krang had made a device that MADE everyone act that way, TMNT and humans alike, so it doesn't even count. (And even then, they forced themselves out there and faced it and saved the day yet again.)


edit: Besides... rub your knuckles on bare skin, it's like nothing. You kind of have to have hair for a noogie to matter. lol

Yeah, I think that was in season 3??? It was some type of ray gun that did it. But still the Turtles did over come there fear to take down Shredder. If there was one cross over TMNT done right, its the 2012 Turtles and the 80's Turtles. I said it.

There were two separate occasions actually. In Bebop and Rocksteady Conquer The Universe, the pair steal a ray then turn it on Shredder and Krang, the Turtles and numerous other residents; leaving Zach and Splinter to save everyone. It all leads to an awesome climax involving saving Splinter from a train and April from inside a ramping Gorgonzola robot.

The other is The Turtles and The Hare with the same idea; only it doesn't work on the Turtles; so they have to go to the Fairy Tale Dimension to get a rare crystal to counteract the ray's effects. Enter Hokum Hare. Enough said.

[pferreira]

Oh boy. Well from what I have been able to watch it's very nicely animated but yeah the FW series come across terrible. It's not a secret Peter Laird hates the 80s series so this was kind of his revenge.

The "it's disrespectful" argument annoys me to no end, I really wish the people who make it would learn to drop the nostalgia goggles and accept there's merit in mocking the FW turtles, or at least understand why a "respectful" version wouldn't really work.Again this 'nostalgia googles' is a poor excuse. The only reason a respectful version of the FW series wouldn't work is that they needed to show how different those TMNT were to the 2003 ones. That's it! The problem is of course the writer and everybody else went way OTT. :-?

I seriously hope the "FW TMNT meets the most recent cartoon version!" idea is never done ever again and the cartoons become solely focused on moving forward.I agree. I just want FW DVD movies or a TV series continuation. ;)

What we got in the end was a universe where the supposed 80s turtles are more hive-minded and have behavioral traits more reminiscent of Yakko, Wako and Dot, than their actual personalities from the cartoon.I think it was detrimental to being able to fully enjoy the TV movie although in terms of story the characterisation of the FW TMNT had no effect on anything. They could have easily swapped those TMNT for a random universe version we never saw before.

That feeling you get where the people at that comic con were the only ones that got to see the full version of the movie. I don't know what they were thinking when they released the DVD. I've never seen a 'TV-edited' version of a movie bring released on home media, it's always meant to be the actual film.The full version was available in the UK although I don't remember many rushing to import it for some weird reason. :ohwell:

I watched the OT Season 1 dvd and they’re exceptionally great for its time (I somehow couldn't watch the later seasons due to different tone and drop of animation quality).But even compared to a random Season 5 Turtles Forever still makes them worse.

The weirdest thing was the noogie bit. Once was fine, though still odd since I don't recall them ever doing it on their show, but they did it like 3 or so times that it felt like they were trying to say it was a staple of the 80s TMNT just as much as Cowabunga was. That was a very weird addition. Unless the Forever writers thought everyone was giving everyone noogies in the 80s or something.I think maybe they got as far as giving each other group hugs or high fiving in the FW series? Noogies as you say I do not remember.

And do '87 right. I'd love to see all their (various versions of Turtles) reactions to the 'Rise' bunch...Yeah I mean the 2012 series took a crack at them and still made them come across as idiots who have apparently never used their weapons. It's a start but there's certainly room for improvement.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Still love this movie to this day. I remember being super hyped for it despite knowing the original voice cast wasn't going to be involved. I can understand why some were upset with how they treated the FW turtles but I don't think 4Kids meant to do it in a way to make them look lame in comparison. More so to differentiate the two groups of turtles, even if their comedic sides were focused on a bit too much.

Unpopular opinion, I felt that the last Nick/FW turtles crossover episode was no better if not worse at "respecting the FW turtles" than this was. It's one thing where they don't use their weapons but to actually learn how to fight? They may not be the best fighters but that's kinda stretching it.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Still love this movie to this day. I remember being super hyped for it despite knowing the original voice cast wasn't going to be involved. I can understand why some were upset with how they treated the FW turtles but I don't think 4Kids meant to do it in a way to make them look lame in comparison. More so to differentiate the two groups of turtles, even if their comedic sides were focused on a bit too much.

Unpopular opinion, I felt that the last Nick/FW turtles crossover episode was no better if not worse at "respecting the FW turtles" than this was. It's one thing where they don't use their weapons but to actually learn how to fight? They may not be the best fighters but that's kinda stretching it.

The Fred Wolf turtles fight many of their silliest fights during seasons 3–5, sadly the same years as their popularity peaked.

[ABrown]

Another year goes by, and again Nick's TMNT social media gets the anniversary date wrong: https://twitter.com/TMNT/status/1149304204030332929

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

For a long time, I thought we would get some kind of sequel in 2019.

[IndigoErth]

Another year goes by, and again Nick's TMNT social media gets the anniversary date wrong: https://twitter.com/TMNT/status/1149304204030332929
:tconfuse: They've owned TMNT how long, so how many years to figure it out? I mean, god Nick, Wikipedia can probably tell you. lol

But then again, this is also a company did the birthday thing for Spongebob two and a half months late. :trazz:

[pferreira]

The Fred Wolf turtles fight many of their silliest fights during seasons 3–5, sadly the same years as their popularity peaked.Also when a large chunk of the episodes aired.

Another year goes by, and again Nick's TMNT social media gets the anniversary date wrong: https://twitter.com/TMNT/status/1149304204030332929Thanks for reminding me how awful the FW TMNT was treated in that. :(

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Also when a large chunk of the episodes aired.(

Yes. Between 1989–1991, everyone just asked for more. But the TMNT peaking in poplarity, there were also many complaining parents.

[pferreira]

Yes. Between 1989–1991, everyone just asked for more. But the TMNT peaking in poplarity, there were also many complaining parents.Amazing compared to what TMNT would come later for kids. The FW series in comparison has the violence of The A-Team and the tone or plots of the 60s Batman TV series. :-?

[Prowler]

The TMNT being considered a bit too violent at the time for a kids cartoon says more about that time period than the FW series.

[pferreira]

The TMNT being considered a bit too violent at the time for a kids cartoon says more about that time period than the FW series.Back in the 80s parents thoughts The A-Team was too violent. Dirk Benedict swears by it being a political move by the network to get them cancelled because of the violence. :-?

[Coola Yagami]

The TMNT being considered a bit too violent at the time for a kids cartoon says more about that time period than the FW series.

A different series, I know but still, I remember a tale of the guys behind He-Man having a hard time to not only get around limited animation but also ways to do fights in the show with so many judging adult eyes watching. There was a time they wanted He-Man to cut down a tree so it would take down some bad guys, but they had to skip it because the censors considered it too messed to have He-Man chop down a tree.

I'd imagine during the Fred Wolf storyboarding phase there has to be some sort of scene where, IDK, Mikey doing a spinkick to Shredder's face would have been considered too violent for the censors, so let's have him throw a pizza at him instead!

It still bugs me that during the Mona Lisa episode, Raph and Lisa spent most of it running away from the monsters without so much as trying to fight them first.

And don't get me started on when Raph stopped fighting altogether in later seasons and was reduced to just tossing his Sai all the time.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

A different series, I know but still, I remember a tale of the guys behind He-Man having a hard time to not only get around limited animation but also ways to do fights in the show with so many judging adult eyes watching. There was a time they wanted He-Man to cut down a tree so it would take down some bad guys, but they had to skip it because the censors considered it too messed to have He-Man chop down a tree.

All I know is that He-Man in the 1983 cartoon was just allowed to throw living creatures into puddles or water and not use his sword against them

https://io9.gizmodo.com/12-insane-facts-about-he-man-and-the-masters-of-the-uni-1619470015

https://www.thegamer.com/strange-things-he-man-didnt-notice/

https://nowiknow.com/the-sword-isnt-so-mighty-after-all/

[sdp]

TF was such a bitter sweet moment for TMNT fans, there were no active projects, everything was ending and there seemed like nothing excited to look forward to, it felt like a final hoorah, for the franchise before it went sleeping for a long time.

Little did we know the viacom deal would happen not long after and while we did have to wait we knew stuff was actually being developped, now the viacom era might not be what most of us wanted, i was wary since the beginning but at the very least we knew something was coming back then. After TF it felt like nothing would come out for many many years.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

TF was such a bitter sweet moment for TMNT fans, there were no active projects, everything was ending and there seemed like nothing excited to look forward to, it felt like a final hoorah, for the franchise before it went sleeping for a long time.

Yes, many probably feared the same dark years as during the late 1990's and very early 2000's.

[Whitewolf89]

I've hoped for years that the 10th anniversary of the movie would prompt Nickelodeon to give the movie a proper re-release. It would be a great opportunity to put out a blu-ray/dvd/digital combo pack (obviously with the movie in its ENTIRETY). Come on Nickelodeon, make it happen. I mean with Nickelodeon's obsession with the original cartoon, it doesn't seem like a far fetched idea.
Yeah, this needs to happen,as the movie was great (I still have my copy of it, believe it or not), and I watch it pretty often.

And it's been 10 years since it was first broadcast/released?
Wow.
Seems like only yesterday.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I've hoped for years that the 10th anniversary of the movie would prompt Nickelodeon to give the movie a proper re-release. It would be a great opportunity to put out a blu-ray/dvd/digital combo pack (obviously with the movie in its ENTIRETY). Come on Nickelodeon, make it happen. I mean with Nickelodeon's obsession with the original cartoon, it doesn't seem like a far fetched idea.

It feels like Nickelodeon's obsession with the original cartoon has began to decline with Rise of the TMNT.

[pferreira]

I'd imagine during the Fred Wolf storyboarding phase there has to be some sort of scene where, IDK, Mikey doing a spinkick to Shredder's face would have been considered too violent for the censors, so let's have him throw a pizza at him instead!It was okay during the first three seasons, it's when the show moved to CBS then that stuff really started to happen.

[shihe]

Ten years?? Woah. Ten years ago I just got into watching the 2003 Turtles show.

Well I loved the movie. It was crisp, action packed, great humor (imo),
lots of references, and had an epic final fight with high sitakes.

I agree that the representation of the 80’s turtles has been less than stellar. But at least they were tolerable. As opposed to what Nick Turtles writers did.
Like I can tolerate having the turtles crying when scared as an exaggerated gag. But having the Nick turtles teaching them how to fight because they apparently can’t? That was way more insulting.

I too hope that if they do a crossover with Rise Turtles, they don’t rehash Forever, and they make the FW turtles competent and skilled. You can fight using your environment to your advantage AND be skilled in fighting, just ask Jackie Chan. :p

(Ideally, gather turtles from 2k3, and Nick too. Maybe mix them up in the craziest 4x4 teams)

P.s. Posting this from a mobile device has been an absolute nightmare.

[pferreira]

I too hope that if they do a crossover with Rise Turtles, they don’t rehash Forever, and they make the FW turtles competent and skilled. You can fight using your environment to your advantage AND be skilled in fighting, just ask Jackie Chan. :pIt would be nice if next time they fit the FW TMNT within the continuity of their own series. :ohwell:

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It would be nice if next time they fit the FW TMNT within the continuity of their own series. :ohwell:

One problem is that we, the TMNT fans, know the continuity of previous cartoons and comics better than many of the producers.

[Garfield]

Its been a while since I saw it. And I did enjoy it for the most part. I like so many others hated the portrayal of the Fred Wolf turtles. Like I wouldn't mind a joke or a jab here and there about the ridiculousness of the cartoonish aspect of the Fred Wolf Turtles, but I remember feeling like there was a tinge of mean spirit and dishonesty behind the portrayal of those characters. But other than that, I found it enjoyable.

Funny thing, even though I didn't really like how they did the Fred Wolf turtles, they were still the funniest characters in that program. "Utrom Shredder?... Sounds Swedish!" :D so I guess it wasn't all lost.

[pferreira]

One problem is that we, the TMNT fans, know the continuity of previous cartoons and comics better than many of the producers.Yeah that's annoying. :-?

[I Crave Pizza No More]

I loved it then, I love it now.

Ditto. only nitpick is the voices.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Its been a while since I saw it. And I did enjoy it for the most part. I like so many others hated the portrayal of the Fred Wolf turtles. Like I wouldn't mind a joke or a jab here and there about the ridiculousness of the cartoonish aspect of the Fred Wolf Turtles, but I remember feeling like there was a tinge of mean spirit and dishonesty behind the portrayal of those characters. But other than that, I found it enjoyable.

Funny thing, even though I didn't really like how they did the Fred Wolf turtles, they were still the funniest characters in that program. "Utrom Shredder?... Sounds Swedish!" :D so I guess it wasn't all lost.

Shredder was once called Strimlaren ("Shredder") in Sweden. Term only in use during the very early-1990's.

[Maelxich]

It was okay one issue I had with it was the fact they could not get any of the original actors back to voice their characters I know why they could not just made everything feel off. If they ever rerelease it I would love it if it came with the actors reprising their rolls redubbing it just as a bonus

[Mario500]

It was okay one issue I had with it was the fact they could not get any of the original actors back to voice their characters I know why they could not just made everything feel off. If they ever rerelease it I would love it if it came with the actors reprising their rolls redubbing it just as a bonus

I would love such a release, too.

[IMJ]

I love Turtles Forever. I still do. I couldn't believe they pulled off combining the franchises the way that they did, and in some strange way it validated my love for the Turtle as a kid watching the Fred Wolf iteration. I feel the same way about the F.W. Turtles appearances in the 2012 show too...

[Coola Yagami]

It was okay one issue I had with it was the fact they could not get any of the original actors back to voice their characters I know why they could not just made everything feel off. If they ever rerelease it I would love it if it came with the actors reprising their rolls redubbing it just as a bonus

As well as the full version shown at the con

[ABrown]

I watched TF last night to complete my 4Kids series rewatch. It was a little better than I remember it being. I think when watching it immediately (within a week in this case) after watching the Back to the Sewer season, it's so much more enjoyable than the BTTS episodes. It made the movie more enjoyable than I remember it being.

There was one thing that I noticed when watching the DVD. The DVD case lists the film as being shown in "Fullscreen". And I remember one of the things that people hated about the DVD release was that it was presented in fullscreen and not widescreen. But I swear, what I was watching last night was definitely in wide screen. There was black bars on both the top and the bottom.