IDW: volume 5 or not volume 5?

[hypered1]

So I haven't seen this discussed on here, but I've seen the IDW run sometimes referred to as 'Volume V / 5' as if it continues from the Mirage/ Image run. I personally don't agree with this line of thought (it's a totally new storyline) but I was curious as to what everyone thinks of this suggestion.

[Powder]

It is by no means Volume 5. The only series' referred to in that format are the respective chunks that represented Mirage's overall continuity.

IDW, like Archie, or Dreamwave, is just it's own thing.

[Andrew NDB]

Rich will disagree but in no way, shape or form is this TMNT Vol. 5. Whole different universe and there was even a couple of new issues of Vol. 4 that came out simultaneously to the IDW series. And hell, Vol. 4 isn't even technically cancelled, or over... Peter could drop 3 issues at Christmas for all we know.

[neatoman]

If we're going by the logic that it's a book published in the USA simply under the title "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" without anything like "Adventures", "Tales of" or "Universe" attached, then IDW's TMNT would actually be the sixth series with that title.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mirage 1984) 62 issues.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mirage 1993) 13 issues.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Image 1996) 23 issues.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mirage 2001) 32 issues (possibly more coming but it's unlikely).
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Dreamwave 2003) 7 issues.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (IDW 2011) 100+ issues.

So technically, you could call this series "Volume 6", if you really wanted. But like others have said, it's not a continuation of anything which makes that terminology a bit unfitting (though in-universe it's impled that the IDW-verse might be a be split timeline from the Mirage world that has been further screwed up due to patching up after a bunch of reckless time travel). I don't like the "Volume" terminology myself because it gets confusing wheter you're talking about the issue numbering or the trade numbering.

If you really feel like you need an easy way to differentiate the book from any previous iteration, I might suggest you simply call it "IDW TMNT". And if IDW ends up rebooting or simply starting over with a new issue 1, then it might be best to call it "TMNT 2011".

[Andrew NDB]

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mirage 2001) 32 issues (possibly more coming but it's unlikely).

The title of Vol. 4 is technically "TMNT: Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles." But who cares.

[rich]

Rich will disagree but in no way, shape or form is this TMNT Vol. 5. Whole different universe and there was even a couple of new issues of Vol. 4 that came out simultaneously to the IDW series. And hell, Vol. 4 isn't even technically cancelled, or over... Peter could drop 3 issues at Christmas for all we know.

If we're going by the logic that it's a book published in the USA simply under the title "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" without anything like "Adventures", "Tales of" or "Universe" attached, then IDW's TMNT would actually be the sixth series with that title.

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mirage 1984) 62 issues.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mirage 1993) 13 issues.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Image 1996) 23 issues.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Mirage 2001) 32 issues (possibly more coming but it's unlikely).
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (Dreamwave 2003) 7 issues.
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (IDW 2011) 100+ issues.

So technically, you could call this series "Volume 6", if you really wanted. But like others have said, it's not a continuation of anything which makes that terminology a bit unfitting (though in-universe it's impled that the IDW-verse might be a be split timeline from the Mirage world that has been further screwed up due to patching up after a bunch of reckless time travel). I don't like the "Volume" terminology myself because it gets confusing wheter you're talking about the issue numbering or the trade numbering.


In my opinion, trying to label the the six main TMNT iterations (Mirage, Mirage, Image, Dreamwave, Mirage, IDW) with a numbered Volume designation based on storyline continuation, universe, or content is much too subjective. Whether the content of a series is or isn't TMNT "canon" can differ from one person to the next. I really can't disagree with most of the arguments for or against certain iterations of the Turtles' comics being included / excluded from the "Volume" numbering designation based on storyline alone.

Most (if not all) of my arguments for the IDW series being "Volume 5" has to do with categorization in a database from the title. Strictly in terms of ordering of the six main TMNT series', I do agree that the IDW series isn't fifth and should not really be Volume 5 but instead Volume 6. So, why didn't I label the IDW series as Volume 6?

When you have a single publisher (the same publisher...Mirage), it's easy to label a new series of "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" (subsequent to the previous) a new Volume (Volume 2, 3, etc.). However, when different publishers come into the mix, it can muddy the waters. A "TMNT" series under a new publisher could easily become branded as a new Volume 1, as happened with the Dreamwave series. But, because the Image TMNT series had already earned the Volume 3 designation when the Dreamwave series came out, that's when I think things started to get tricky for categorization and numbering of TMNT "Volumes."

The Image series being known as Volume 3 and then the Dreamwave series being branded as a reboot "Volume 1"...those are the things that threw everything off in terms of database categorization. Given the Dreamwave series self-labeled itself as "Volume 1" instead of just naturally becoming "Volume 4" (since it was the fourth series), it actually became the second "Volume 1" for "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles." That (and storyline) essentially separated itself from the two previous Mirage volumes (1 & 2) and Image volume (3) strictly in terms of categorization. In addition, the Dreamwave series lasted only 7 issues and so it's kind of an anomaly in terms of both categorization and story line. When Mirage's next TMNT series came out after the unsuccessful Dreamwave series, it quickly became known as Volume 4; this was clearly because TMNT fans wanted to ignore or forget the Dreamwave series even happened AND because the Dreamwave series was self-labeled as Volume 1 - easy to just ignore as a "Volume" number). So, when the IDW series was added, the next logical "Volume" number (strictly in terms of numbering) was "Volume 5." Naming it "Volume 6" when no "Volume 5" existed seemed much too confusing. And that's why the IDW series became "Volume 5." If IDW were to stop the current "TMNT" series and then re-launch with a new series (a new #1), then that series would become "Volume 6."

I hope all this makes sense. I don't disagree with any of the arguments for the IDW series being Vol. 6 or even being "IDW TMNT" or whatever else. But, factually speaking, it's simply the fifth "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" ongoing series that didn't "self-brand" itself with a "Volume" designation. Had the Dreamwave series not branded itself "Volume 1" then the current IDW TMNT series would have been "Volume 6" in my database and the TMNT volume widely known as "Volume 4" would have actually been "Volume 5."

[hypered1]

Ok, so we all seem to be coming from the same perspective and to be honest I think it was Rich's site that I first saw the Vol 5 tag being used for the IDW series and other places have probably mimicked this at a later date.
That being said the Dreamwave run definitely doesn't count as it's based on the 2003 tv series much like the Archie comic originated with the 1987 cartoon.

[CyberCubed]

Different continuities are not the same volumes, it's not that complicated.

[rich]

Different continuities are not the same volumes, it's not that complicated.

Out of curiosity, is this how you would classify the Volumes of the six TMNT titles?

- Mirage - TMNT Volume 1
- Mirage - TMNT Volume 2
- Image - TMNT Volume 3
- Dreamwave - TMNT Volume 1
- Mirage - TMNT Volume 4
- IDW - TMNT Volume 1

[Shinigami]

Yeah what? That's like saying the PD movies are parts 5 and 6 of the 1990 plus 2009 films.

[hypered1]

Out of curiosity, is this how you would classify the Volumes of the six TMNT titles?

- Mirage - TMNT Volume 1
- Mirage - TMNT Volume 2
- Image - TMNT Volume 3
- Dreamwave - TMNT Volume 1
- Mirage - TMNT Volume 4
- IDW - TMNT Volume 1

Yeah, that's basically the system I use.

[hypered1]

Yeah what? That's like saying the PD movies are parts 5 and 6 of the 1990 plus 2009 films.

When you say PD movies I assume you mean the Michael Bay films? A little off topic, but from what I've heard the three 1990's films (and possibly the 2007 CGI film) precede 'The Next Mutation' series.

[mrmaczaps]

I dunno. I see the volume number just literally meaning "we started this **** over again for a new number 1"... vol #, issue 1...

Call it vol 5 or vol 6, its the sixth new series of tmnt.... ��*♂️

[Shinigami]

When you say PD movies I assume you mean the Michael Bay films? A little off topic, but from what I've heard the three 1990's films (and possibly the 2007 CGI film) precede 'The Next Mutation' series.


I do mean that and yeah technically Eastman wanted them to, but it doesn't make sense because Shredder and many other things are inconsistent.

[pferreira]

My understanding is that we would only truly get a Volume 5 if it was under the Mirage banner. Even if they did a sequel to Volume 4 I'm not sure if it could be Volume 5. It would more like be a semi-reboot.

[Andrew NDB]

My understanding is that we would only truly get a Volume 5 if it was under the Mirage banner. Even if they did a sequel to Volume 4 I'm not sure if it could be Volume 5.

There's really nothing at all stopping Peter from wrapping up Vol. 4 and beginning a Vol. 5.

[Coola Yagami]

There's really nothing at all stopping Peter from wrapping up Vol. 4 and beginning a Vol. 5.

Bitter old age and indifference.

[pferreira]

There's really nothing at all stopping Peter from wrapping up Vol. 4 and beginning a Vol. 5.So am I correct in thinking it would still be under the Mirage name, not IDW?

[The Purple Dragon]

On here i use the same volume 1-4 etc like rich and other refere to the volums but at home by my self this is how i place the volums.

Mirage volum:1
Mirage volum:2
Mirage volum:3
Image volum:1
Idw volum:1
Artchie tmnta volume:1
Dreamwave volume:1
Idw tmnt animated volum:1
Idw tmnt rise volume:1

Image i am still not shure if i want to be on its one ore coued work In the mirage universe. i will see now whene its finish with the orginale writers etc and publish by idw.
with volume 4 i think the best way to Get a end, woued be if idw coued make a deal with peter and reissue vol4 In trades and give Peter some time to write a ending.and posseble end volume 4 like it is and Peter coued make a volum 5 mini series to end it or if he coued close it In few issues they coued just put it In volume 4 and be finish.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Bitter old age and indifference.

BWAHAHAHAAAAA!

:tlol: :tlol: :tlol:

Gold star for you, man. :tgrin:

[Andrew NDB]

On here i use the same volume 1-4 etc like rich and other refere to the volums but at home by my self this is how i place the volums.

Mirage volum:1
Mirage volum:2
Mirage volum:3
Image volum:1

That's weird... Mirage Volume 4 literally calls itself "Vol. 4" inside the comics themselves.

[Peter Palmer]

I've generally used the Mirage Licensing site as the guidelines for this personally.

Volume 1 and 2 are straightforward.

The site lists the Image comics as "Volume 3" (they even include the quotation marks :lol: ), so I've always considered those books Volume 3 despite agreeing with Peter that they are not canon. I never got into the Image books and they seemed like too big a departure from volume 2 for me to consider them otherwise.

The site lists Laird's TMNT series from 2001 as Volume 4 and I believe the books also state it, so I'm good with those.

I've never considered the Dreamwave books as a volume because they always struck me more as a tie-in to the 2003 animated series as opposed to a standard comic series. As such, I put them in the same category as any of the Archie, Adventures, or Movie/TV tie-in books in the past. The only difference is the Dreamwave series didn't have any extra words in the title, but in every other way they seem to be a cross-promotional tie-in product.

I still mentally consider IDW TMNT as volume 5, but I almost never refer to it as such. For years, I've always referred to it as "IDW TMNT" and everyone knows what I'm talking about. In that regard, I suppose it really doesn't matter.

[The Purple Dragon]

That's weird... Mirage Volume 4 literally calls itself "Vol. 4" inside the comics themselves.

True but i think it depends on if you think image is Canon or not.again if you are picky mirage never did relase a volum 3 they just skip it and did go from 2-4.again since Peter did say he did not consider image as Canon its weird he did print volum 4 AS 4 and not 3?because that woued make more sense to print it AS volum 3 since he did not consider image Canon and it was the 3 volum mirage did print.even if you do consider image Canon or not.

[The Purple Dragon]

I've generally used the Mirage Licensing site as the guidelines for this personally.

Volume 1 and 2 are straightforward.

The site lists the Image comics as "Volume 3" (they even include the quotation marks :lol: ), so I've always considered those books Volume 3 despite agreeing with Peter that they are not canon. I never got into the Image books and they seemed like too big a departure from volume 2 for me to consider them otherwise.

The site lists Laird's TMNT series from 2001 as Volume 4 and I believe the books also state it, so I'm good with those.

I've never considered the Dreamwave books as a volume because they always struck me more as a tie-in to the 2003 animated series as opposed to a standard comic series. As such, I put them in the same category as any of the Archie, Adventures, or Movie/TV tie-in books in the past. The only difference is the Dreamwave series didn't have any extra words in the title, but in every other way they seem to be a cross-promotional tie-in product.

I still mentally consider IDW TMNT as volume 5, but I almost never refer to it as such. For years, I've always referred to it as "IDW TMNT" and everyone knows what I'm talking about. In that regard, I suppose it really doesn't matter.

I just try to make it easy and fore me i make a volume fore diffrent universes/timelines.it does not matter if dreamwave was based on the 2003 show because so was archie and thats why i call it a volum 1 if that make sense.if i was to put archie and dreamwave In the same timeline that woued not make sense fore me and thats why i see them AS a seperate volume.same with mirage and idw it woued not make sense to call idw volume 5 because its not picking up where mirage vol 4 did stop.again wath i think other call a volume is In witch order they did Get relased but then we have to add a lot more than mirage and image and idw.a proper volume order woued be more complicaded with mirage as volume 1.archie AS volume 2.mirage volum 2 AS volum 3.image AS volume 4.dreamwave AS volum 5 mirage volum 4 AS volum 6 idw AS volume 7 and thats only with the Main comic and not specials,movie tie Ins and crossovers that woued make the list more complicaded and longer.

[Chris]

Yeah, I have to go with;

Mirage Vol 1
Mirage Vol 2
Image Vol 3
Mirage Vol 4

Then Dreamworks being its own thing (So TMNT 2003 Vol 1 I guess) and IDW's current run being IDW TMNT Vol 1.

As others have said, Mirage could technically do a Vol 5 if they wanted. I don't believe they ever will but they have the rights to.

[pferreira]

How many issues did the TMNT 2012 comic go on for?