It: Chapter Three (or Chapter Zero?)

[Andrew NDB]

Or they'll probably call it "It Begins." Seems like everyone is keen to do it, and with the roaring box office they'll have to strongly consider it:

http://www.darkhorizons.com/skarsgard-open-to-third-it-possibility/

I think there could be something neat there.

[neatoman]

Well, like I'd tell Bill Skarsgård myself: "Ropa inte hej förrän du är över bäcken"

This is really just him expressing an interest, so I'm not really gonna take it seriously. Even if I did, what's left to explore in terms of a meaningful narrative? Anyone who tried to stop Pennywise before just failed and he doesn't exist as of Part 2.

[Andrew NDB]

what's left to explore in terms of a meaningful narrative? Anyone who tried to stop Pennywise before just failed and he doesn't exist as of Part 2.

It's arrival on Earth (maybe even a bit before that, when it was still in space), how It took Pennywise's body and form. Like, how much of the human Pennywise is in there, if any. Is It like a symbiote to Pennywise, in some way? What's Pennywise the human's story? Stuff like that is interesting to me. And yeah, it could be set in Derry with the first bunch of kids trying (and yes, failing) to defeat him.

So basically... a big origin story where Pennywise "wins" in the end. That doesn't sound like fun?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Not interested. Interesting, but not interested.

It'll probably happen.

And IT Begins is a damn good title. Too good to pass up. :tlol:

[MikeandRaph87]

Not interested. Interesting, but not interested.

It'll probably happen.

And IT Begins is a damn good title. Too good to pass up. :tlol:

These are my thoughts exactly.

[Shark_Blade]

Just do IT.

[MikeandRaph87]

Just do IT.

Nike, is that you?

This is stretching a successful product. Its like making The Hobbit into three movies with bonus material in the third. Yes, I like IT because its not horror per se. I don't like horror. I describe the story as The Goonies grow up and face a hybrid Batman villain Joker/Clayface. There is a lot of characterization also built into the characters.

[The Deadman]

Nike, is that you?

This is stretching a successful product. Its like making The Hobbit into three movies with bonus material in the third. Yes, I like IT because its not horror per se. I don't like horror. I describe the story as The Goonies grow up and face a hybrid Batman villain Joker/Clayface. There is a lot of characterization also built into the characters.

Pennywise is a demonic entity that feeds off the fear of children, sometimes even literally. It's definitely a horror movie.

[MikeandRaph87]

Pennywise is a demonic entity that feeds off the fear of children, sometimes even literally. It's definitely a horror movie.

Its different though. Its a layered characterization and has a lot of history involved. Its not just a horror story. Its a lot of things which is what draws someone who avoids horror, at least me. The concept, the arcs of Ben and Mike. The cheesy one liners and the history I like to absorb.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm less worried about what they'd do in an It prequel... but more worried about them not leaving well enough alone at that point and doing part 4, and 5.

[IMJ]

It's arrival on Earth (maybe even a bit before that, when it was still in space), how It took Pennywise's body and form. Like, how much of the human Pennywise is in there, if any. Is It like a symbiote to Pennywise, in some way? What's Pennywise the human's story? Stuff like that is interesting to me. And yeah, it could be set in Derry with the first bunch of kids trying (and yes, failing) to defeat him.

So basically... a big origin story where Pennywise "wins" in the end. That doesn't sound like fun?

So I didn't really follow that.... It made more sense that Pennywise was some ancient demon and the immobilizing effect when glaring into his mouth is akin to being psychologically overwhelmed in terror by glaring into the depths of hell.

So basically that's all wrong and Pennywise is some kind of ancient alien? What was with the three glowing lights thing?

[Voltron]

Its different though. Its a layered characterization and has a lot of history involved. Its not just a horror story. Its a lot of things which is what draws someone who avoids horror, at least me. The concept, the arcs of Ben and Mike. The cheesy one liners and the history I like to absorb.

It's still horror, though. It's like saying I don't like a certain type of music. Maybe in general, but I'll find things I like in that genre here and there.

Horror, when done correctly, is layered. No one is actually scared by a cosmic spider that sucks out people's fear. That's just there because telling a story about how scary growing up is doesn't really carry the same impact.

Mixing the fantastic (in this case, IT) with the mundane (in this case, puberty) is a very effective story telling element.

[Andrew NDB]

So I didn't really follow that.... It made more sense that Pennywise was some ancient demon and the immobilizing effect when glaring into his mouth is akin to being psychologically overwhelmed in terror by glaring into the depths of hell.

Apparently in the book he is a shapeshifting alien riding the back of Maturin the turtle and fell to Earth... and took a particular interest in the human Pennywise, so much so that he kept the persona for decades.

So basically that's all wrong and Pennywise is some kind of ancient alien? What was with the three glowing lights thing?

I mean, he could be an ancient demon... AND from space. I guess. But he's definitely from space.

[Leo656]

Kinda. "Space"/other dimension.
-------------------

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_(character)

- It originated in a void containing and surrounding the Universe—a place referred to in the novel as the "Macroverse" (a concept similar to the later established "Todash Darkness" of the Dark Tower novels).

- It's true form is not precisely what the children actually see. Instead, the natural form of It exists in an inter-dimensional realm referred to by It as the "deadlights". Bill Denbrough comes dangerously close to seeing the deadlights, but successfully defeats It before this happens. The deadlights are never seen, and their true form outside the physical realm is never revealed, only described as writhing, destroying orange lights. Coming face to face with the deadlights drives any living being instantly insane (a common Lovecraftian device).
--------------------

So... kinda. "From space" is both accurate and an extreme over-simplification.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Yeah, pretty much what Leo said, although to go a bit deeper, the book described the alien spider as the closest the human mind could come to comprehending its true form. The deadlights were both its eyes and its inner "life-force", so to speak. And Bill's wife DID see them. So did one of the bullies. Both wound up catatonic and/or insane. The nature of its true shape and evil was enough to drive people mad, and it had a corrupting influence on those who lived near it for too long, which explains a lot about why Derry was such a horrible town under the picturesque surface. As for the turtle, that was more a spiritual guide for the kids, mostly based on Bill's imagination and some hints of Hindu mythology. It had nothing to do with the turtle, in fact they were opposed. The turtle was mostly symbolic as a sign of wisdom and perseverance.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, pretty much what Leo said, although to go a bit deeper, the book described the alien spider as the closest the human mind could come to comprehending its true form. The deadlights were both its eyes and its inner "life-force", so to speak. And Bill's wife DID see them. So did one of the bullies. Both wound up catatonic and/or insane. The nature of its true shape and evil was enough to drive people mad, and it had a corrupting influence on those who lived near it for too long, which explains a lot about why Derry was such a horrible town under the picturesque surface. As for the turtle, that was more a spiritual guide for the kids, mostly based on Bill's imagination and some hints of Hindu mythology. It had nothing to do with the turtle, in fact they were opposed. The turtle was mostly symbolic as a sign of wisdom and perseverance.

Huh. Well I've never read it, so that's a good insight. My only point is that -- and I'm the last guy to say let's mine some sh***y series with a unnecessary prequel -- that seems like pretty fertile ground for one more film. Realized.

[IMJ]

Huh. Well I've never read it, so that's a good insight. My only point is that -- and I'm the last guy to say let's mine some sh***y series with a unnecessary prequel -- that seems like pretty fertile ground for one more film. Realized.

I haven't read any Stephen King. But I've read a lot of Lovecraft and that the stuff you guys are explaining in this thread takes a lot of nods from those Lovecraft beats.

Most of my exposure to Stephen King has come from the 90's mini-series they made out of his books for a while, and then of course many of the movies. He must write with the same tropes quite a bit, because in most Stephen King stories there's the rational hero, the religious zealot, and the babbling nut amidst a group that storms, norms and tries to overcome.

[MikeandRaph87]

Yeah, pretty much what Leo said, although to go a bit deeper, the book described the alien spider as the closest the human mind could come to comprehending its true form. The deadlights were both its eyes and its inner "life-force", so to speak. And Bill's wife DID see them. So did one of the bullies. Both wound up catatonic and/or insane. The nature of its true shape and evil was enough to drive people mad, and it had a corrupting influence on those who lived near it for too long, which explains a lot about why Derry was such a horrible town under the picturesque surface. As for the turtle, that was more a spiritual guide for the kids, mostly based on Bill's imagination and some hints of Hindu mythology. It had nothing to do with the turtle, in fact they were opposed. The turtle was mostly symbolic as a sign of wisdom and perseverance.

Yes, the World Turtle, I believe it was incorporated into Archie's TMNT Adventures too. It was the Yin to Pennywise's Yang. Both were inter-dimensional god-like beings from another reality. A female spider is the physical form of IT, but an orange blinding light is the true form. Tom, Bev's abusive husband saw the light and died of fright after being mentally controlled. The same with Henry Bowers, he was the orange light and was mentally controlled though did not die of freight, but from his ill-fated attack on the Loser's Club as adults. Adora, was also placed in a catatonic state after Tom under mind control abducted her and brought her to IT who then showed it's true form. In the adaptations Tom was not a factor. There were others cacooned with Adora, but were any of them still alive?

What was the point of Beverly killing her father in self-defense? Was it to show she is a strong character and can overcome abuse? Yet she is destined to marry/ have a romantic relationship with someone reminiscent of her father which defeats the idea of her character development.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Well, she never really overcame that as a kid, so continuing the cycle as an adult actually made sense. She didn't fully overcome it until after she left him, finally confronted both her past and the creature, and killed It.

[Leo656]

This and other threads make me feel like they should just stop printing books entirely. It's over.

[The Deadman]

Yes, the World Turtle, I believe it was incorporated into Archie's TMNT Adventures too.

Also known as Maturin and it was never in a TMNT comic. The only such crossovers that exist are fanfictions.

[Andrew NDB]

Also known as Maturin and it was never in a TMNT comic. The only such crossovers that exist are fanfictions.

Unless you consider it to be one and the same as the Great Turtle in Mirage.

[MikeandRaph87]

Also known as Maturin and it was never in a TMNT comic. The only such crossovers that exist are fanfictions.

https://bnc.lt/a/key_live_eifqPbvhIRnKEb1T0MSFpipgsCenSDRu?%24ios_d eeplink_path=pinterest%3A%2F%2Fpin%2F7958711838865 5416&%24android_deeplink_path=pinterest%3A%2F%2Fpin%2F7 9587118388655416&amp_client_id=amp-Iyz3tDcj72koO67Yyk5laA&utm_source=168&utm_medium=2160&current_page_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2 Fpin%2F79587118388655416%2F&install_id=2e23d955bb7f4da09cfc9fae5dcec3fe&%24fallback_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2F pin%2F79587118388655416%2F%23details

TMNT Adventures#61. I had a vague memory of it. The same issue that had the morbid foldable of the dead Mutanimals.

[Coola Yagami]

I'm surprised SNL or someone hasn't done a skit where Pennywise does return and the Losers have to stop him yet again but like, from the old folks home, lol.

Dang it clown, get off my yard!

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Also known as Maturin and it was never in a TMNT comic. The only such crossovers that exist are fanfictions.


Not so. The Great Turtle was indeed in Mirage. I have the story in one of the Classics reprints.


Unless you consider it to be one and the same as the Great Turtle in Mirage.


Yes, and it is indeed.


https://bnc.lt/a/key_live_eifqPbvhIRnKEb1T0MSFpipgsCenSDRu?%24ios_d eeplink_path=pinterest%3A%2F%2Fpin%2F7958711838865 5416&%24android_deeplink_path=pinterest%3A%2F%2Fpin%2F7 9587118388655416&amp_client_id=amp-Iyz3tDcj72koO67Yyk5laA&utm_source=168&utm_medium=2160&current_page_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2 Fpin%2F79587118388655416%2F&install_id=2e23d955bb7f4da09cfc9fae5dcec3fe&%24fallback_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.pinterest.com%2F pin%2F79587118388655416%2F%23details

TMNT Adventures#61. I had a vague memory of it. The same issue that had the morbid foldable of the dead Mutanimals.


I remember it as well, it was a Donatello-centric story.

[Andrew NDB]

It's happening. On HBO Max as a series.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/hbo-max-plans-it-prequel-series/

[MikeandRaph87]

I can understand a special that goes into It's origin and flashes of periods before the 1st of the film, but I don't see this as a viable series. If we are going by the film version of 1989/2017, this would be 1961 and the first usage of the Pennywise disguise?

[Andrew NDB]

If we are going by the film version of 1989/2017, this would be 1961 and the first usage of the Pennywise disguise?

It may pick up hundreds of years before 1961. The first landing and so on.

[neatoman]

It may pick up hundreds of years before 1961. The first landing and so on.

Pre or post-Columbian era?

[The Deadman]

It's happening. On HBO Max as a series.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/hbo-max-plans-it-prequel-series/

Not Chapter 3, a prequel.

[Andrew NDB]

Not Chapter 3, a prequel.

I'm still betting they call it "It Begins."

[neatoman]

I'm still betting they call it "It Begins."

ch8MzYclx5I

[Andrew NDB]

Showrunners set:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/it-prequel-series-sets-its-showrunners/

[Andrew NDB]

Bill Skarsgard expected to return as Pennywise. Seems a no-brainer.

https://www.screengeek.net/2022/11/18/welcome-to-derry-series-bill-skarsgard-return/

[Andrew NDB]

So... no Bill Skaarsgard as Pennywise, largely black cast and it's expected to revolve around race?

o5YBRM2-9cE

[TheCanadiandrome]

Jesus this is dead in the water already ffs

[Coola Yagami]

So... no Bill Skaarsgard as Pennywise, largely black cast and it's expected to revolve around race?

o5YBRM2-9cE

Wtf why? I mean Pennywise kills indiscriminately. It only makes if it centers around that kid's parents that died in the fire? It seems that town has had a racist past.

[Andrew NDB]

So... maybe Bill is going to reprise Pennywise in it after all?

https://comicbookmovie.com/the-crow/the-crow-star-bill-skarsgrd-admits-he-isnt-a-fan-of-the-reboots-ending-teases-pennywise-return-a211230?fbclid=IwZXh0bgNhZW0CMTEAAR1WW-oinFrttSdhK998BhBZ7sBzklS6HNCJRoNybhFQ4IOtalOhhTGP PHw_aem_Acd5uaCBErcu_Df8izaHsAmMzbJT_Dm8sZdV-pOO1FSmmE0uu3BsC6sAXRJDemT3qDFmKJCtZoGWNJCXT6FCY2l G#gs.07bf.9lham4

[Mad Dog McMutt]

I know that I am in the minority, but I preferred the 90's version of the It movie compared to the later ones.

[Coola Yagami]

I know that I am in the minority, but I preferred the 90's version of the It movie compared to the later ones.

IMO the first part of the new one was perfect. I could rewatch that one all day. The sequel ruined it for me.

It was way too long, and even though I understand they did it because everyone loved the kid actors from the first movie, the movie should have been only about the adults.

Or they could have worked out the scenes in the first one to better flow with what was required in the sequel. If it's one thing I hate are flashbacks to events of a previous movie taking place at times where based on the first movie there was no time where they could have happened.

Then the random 'Ritchie might be gay' subplot that had no pay off. It was there just to be there. Like they had a scene with Pennywise taunting the kid about 'his dirty little secret'. Why? Like it would have sense if now that they're adults, Pennywise blurts out 'btw did you tell your friends you're gay?' to throw him off his game or something. But since it was never brought up in the adult portion, it was a random flashback scene for the sake of it being there.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

IMO the first part of the new one was perfect. I could rewatch that one all day. The sequel ruined it for me.

It was way too long, and even though I understand they did it because everyone loved the kid actors from the first movie, the movie should have been only about the adults.

Or they could have worked out the scenes in the first one to better flow with what was required in the sequel. If it's one thing I hate are flashbacks to events of a previous movie taking place at times where based on the first movie there was no time where they could have happened.

Then the random 'Ritchie might be gay' subplot that had no pay off. It was there just to be there. Like they had a scene with Pennywise taunting the kid about 'his dirty little secret'. Why? Like it would have sense if now that they're adults, Pennywise blurts out 'btw did you tell your friends you're gay?' to throw him off his game or something. But since it was never brought up in the adult portion, it was a random flashback scene for the sake of it being there.



I agree with everything you said. One thing that I hate about modern horror movies is they always use a technique where the scary part of the footage is sped up and played really fast with a loud scary sound effect. I hate that $hit. It kills the vibe for me. Have you ever seen the original Hills Have Eyes 2? The flashbacks in that movie are really bad. Even the dog has a flashback.

[Andrew NDB]

So Skarsgard IS back as Pennywise. He's even producing it. And Muscheti is directing at least some episodes.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/skarsgard-returns-for-it-prequel-series/

[The Deadman]

Coming out next year
https://bloody-disgusting.com/tv/3815890/welcome-to-derry-starring-bill-skarsgard-will-premiere-in-2025/

[Andrew NDB]

So 90% of that cast is black. I guess the rumors that it would be a big thing about race are still true?

[Andrew NDB]

OK... not a bad plan. 3 seasons, and each one goes back another 27 years. Maybe there could be something here.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/it-prequel-tv-series-has-3-season-plan/

[Andrew NDB]

6HG-wsRsg8s

Looks... OK?

[The Deadman]

I just wonder how they're going to implement Pennywise

[neatoman]

I just wonder how they're going to implement Pennywise

By Pennywise, do you mean the shapeshifting alien demon in any form or just his clown disguise?

[The Deadman]

His clown form

[Andrew NDB]

pJYoIc8fQdE

Trailer 2. You can see how some of the racially charged stuff that was strongly alluded to a year or two ago might manifest, but hey, it's the 60s. Looks pretty good.

[Andrew NDB]

Saw the first episode. Nice! And it managed to be creepy and scary when it counted.

[Andrew NDB]

Second episode was pretty great, too. And now Dick Hallorann from the Shining is a main character.

[Andrew NDB]

Am I really the only one here watching this? The show is pretty much amazing. I can't really find any fault. Better than Stranger Things.

Here's what's coming this weekend:

M_aiE-cCXM0

[Coola Yagami]

I'm confused by the show, I haven't seen it yet and don't have much interest to.

But is it a show following a certain cast of characters that will eventually piece together who Pennywise is? If so, them defeating him at the end of the season would undermine the fact that the Losers were the first to do so.

Or is it like an anthology show where each ep It terrorizes a different person and the show ends with 'the bad guys always wins'. Kinda like Freddy's Nightmares but with a budget.

[Andrew NDB]

But is it a show following a certain cast of characters that will eventually piece together who Pennywise is? If so, them defeating him at the end of the season would undermine the fact that the Losers were the first to do so.

It's kind of hard to describe what they're doing. Season 1 is primarily in 1962, Season 2 will primarily be in 1935 and Season 3 will primarily be in 1908... but each one also features looks at the other two time periods. It's all kind of weaving into one thing. From clues in the first It movie we know that Season 1 will end with the black Army guys' party house getting burned down by a bunch of racist thugs and that'll mark Pennywise going back into hibernation. We know that Season 2 will end with the "Bradley Gang shootout" in the streets. We know that Season 3 will end with some kind of mill explosion that kills about 130 people including children. Also, there are a few characters from the two movies that are IN the show.

Ultimately it's less about "Defeating" Pennywise and more about trying to contain him. Or, in the military's case, catch him and weaponize him. Using Dick Hallorann's Shining powers as a secret weapon against the entity is pretty brilliant in this.

[Coola Yagami]

Also, there are a few characters from the two movies that are IN the show.



Modern day flashbacks?

[Andrew NDB]

Modern day flashbacks?

Not yet anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something at the end of the season. Or in the next two seasons. Right now there's really no reason to go into the 80s or the 2000s.

So far there's two characters (played by younger actors, of course, since its the 60s) from the It movies:



* Leroy Hanlon : This was the grandfather of Mike seen in the first It movie. The guy that taught him how to kill livestock and never give up. This also means that Leroy's son Will in this season must be the father of Mike, since he's an only child. And we know from the first It movie that Mike's father burned to death in front of him in a fire with his mother, who is probably Ronnie that we meet this season.

* Ingrid Kersh : Mrs. Kersh from It Chapter Two, the old lady. She's a big part of this season and we see confirmation that she's Pennywise's daughter.

[Andrew NDB]

Season finale was wild! Like a movie. This whole show is so much better than either of those It movies.

Also, we get the explanation for why this show will go further back in time each season (the 30s in season 2, and 1900s in season 3):

Pennywise reveals he is experiencing time in reverse. Even though the show is in the 60s he remembers his final defeat by the Losers in It: Chapter Two but he calls that his "birth." He actively tries to kill Marge, who he knows as the mother of Richie Tozier from the films, to try and undo his death.

So that's pretty interesting. It could very well be that as Pennywise tries to further undo his death in the 30s and then the 1900s by wiping out the ancestors of the Losers from the movies, Pennywise actually gets wiped out in the 1900s and with that, all of his killings throughout the whole series getting undone.

So yeah, there IS stakes in this and Pennywise CAN be defeated, even though its the past.

Not yet anyway, but I wouldn't be surprised if there's something at the end of the season. Or in the next two seasons. Right now there's really no reason to go into the 80s or the 2000s.

So yeah, there IS something at the end of the season.

They get the original Mrs. Kersh old lady actress back to reprise the role in a scene in 1988 where we see the mom of Beverly hang herself. And they get the Young Beverly actress there, too! Looks like they mostly just made her younger with hair and makeup and forced perspective and not CGI.