Iranian intelligence chief killed

[Andrew NDB]

Targeted killing of an Iranian intelligence chief/"terror general":

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/02/middleeast/baghdad-airport-rockets/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/03/politics/donald-trump-qasem-soleimani-iran-us/index.html

https://www.cnn.com/2020/01/03/middleeast/baghdad-soleimani-lister-analysis-intl/index.html

Apparently depending on what you read, either this is a big distraction from the "impeachment proceedings" (which haven't even begun as they haven't been turned in), just a reckless ploy to start a war, or Trump just being hypocritical over what he said about Obama years ago and is "playing with people's lives."

I don't believe for a second this is Trump just deciding to do a thing on a whim. He is privy to pretty high levels of intel (intel that's largely going to be classified) and the fact that other presidents have considered taking him out before but stopped short of it but that this has happened now tells me this guy was up to some bad juju.

[Voltron]

This is a really unsettling development. Especially when we've been snubbing our allies and budding up with hostile dictators.

This is going to be a tense few months.

[Andrew NDB]

However you cut it, this is a guy literally responsible for the deaths of hundreds of Americans. Unequivocally. And was apparently keen to murder a whole bunch more real soon in some kind of power play in Iraq (where we've been since like 2003, without getting into the origin of those reasons for being). We don't know much more than that, all we know is that he was taken off the board as a result of new intel. The expectation that all facts and intel should be declassified at once and made public is ludicrous.

[Voltron]

I really want to stress this: the United States is not invincible. We've stretched ourselves very thin over the past twenty years, and have spent the past three years isolating ourselves on the world stage.

We are not in a position to go tearing into a new war.

This whole thing is WAY more complicated than we're ready to handle at the moment.

[IMJ]

I really want to stress this: the United States is not invincible. We've stretched ourselves very thin over the past twenty years, and have spent the past three years isolating ourselves on the world stage.

We are not in a position to go tearing into a new war.

This whole thing is WAY more complicated than we're ready to handle at the moment.

And if we didn't pull the trigger the opinion then would've been how we were too weak in leadership or too incompetent in leadership to do anything should an event arise. Any naysayer will be right on a long enough timeline eventually.

Although I find most of your opinions disingenuous I agree with some of what you are saying here. Thankfully we have had a President over the last few years who has been busy re-establishing the U.S. power structure. From a material arms perspective, we are in a better position right now to go to another war than we have been in the last 15 years.

I don't want a war, but with that said I'm more concerned about another homeland attack happening now - especially with the country so divided. I don't trust many people who oppose Trump to actually get behind the guy in a war, which means that we could be looking at a Vietnam situation rather than a Desert Storm situation.

[Andrew NDB]

"Here comes WW3!!!" (which seems to be sort of the party line every time Trump acts on military intelligence, or even when he started talks with North Korea)

Uh, no. Iran isn't doing anything except possibly more isolated skirmishes in Iraq, but even that's unlikely. Beyond that, nobody is joining forces with them to "take us on."

I really want to stress this: the United States is not invincible. We've stretched ourselves very thin over the past twenty years, and have spent the past three years isolating ourselves on the world stage.

This is kind of becoming the new fantasy. "TAKE US DOWN! Please! We deserve to be overthrown!"

[TommyT]

"Here comes WW3!!!" (which seems to be sort of the party line every time Trump acts on military intelligence, or even when he started talks with North Korea)

Uh, no. Iran isn't doing anything except possibly more isolated skirmishes in Iraq, but even that's unlikely. Beyond that, nobody is joining forces with them to "take us on."



This is kind of becoming the new fantasy. "TAKE US DOWN! Please! We deserve to be overthrown!"

You really don't see it, do you.

[Voltron]

Is that what you took from my post? Do you think we're in a good position to be expanding an already two decade old war? Have we been successful in our operation to date?

This isn't some soy loving, libtards prayer to the world that the United States be "overthrown". It's a cautionary plea to temper your expectations. If you're worried about American deaths enough to champion Soleimani's execution, you should be worried about the implications, too.

The world does not see as strong anymore. Russia has proven our political security is flimsy at best, and our social fabric is in tatters. The Middle East has shown that our military is fantastic at shock and awe, but a guerilla force can bog us into a never ending showdown. China is currently filling the power void we're leaving diplomatically. NATO is being weakened. North Korea, a threat that was supposed to be handled, is threatening missile tests again.

None of this bodes well for us.

And overthrown? What kind of word is that? Rulers are overthrown. That was never our position in the world. We were supposed to be peacekeepers, as frustrating and difficult as the job is. And now we're just a laughing stock.

The diminishing presence of the United States is not some dream of mine. It's a nightmare, and the path we're on may very well bring us more of the same.

If you have faith in the current administration, that's good. Though it doesn't seem like it, I hope you're right. I'd be more relieved than anything to have you rub this in my face when it all ends up OK. At the same time, given this administration's track record, I don't think it's unfair to be more than a little nervous about the current situation.

[IMJ]

There are two truths here that go back to what I said above about being leftist hates being right across a long enough timeline:

First and foremost, we should be on guard. Iran is an oppressive state led by extremists. It's never a good situation with them.

Second, had any other President taken down this target of opportunity it would not have been branded an "assassination" and there wouldn't be the leftist catastrophizing used to further their dissidence at all costs.

Rationalize those two things together and it paints a pretty clear picture. I could go on, but I'm bored by this. When Iran retaliates (and they will - they are nuts) liberals will use it as an "I told you so" moment and that will be a travesty in of itself.

[Voltron]

You compliment me incessantly.

[Leo656]

I was buying this until I heard that Hogan was gearing up for a match at 'Mania. Clearly this is all a scheme to get Sheiky-baba one last big payday and try to puff up the buyrate.

I smell a wizzork, brotherrrrrrrrr.

[Andrew NDB]

I was buying this until I heard that Hogan was gearing up for a match at 'Mania.

Wait, is that true?

[Leo656]

https://www.facebook.com/hulkhogan/photos/a.805264112845716/2755666254472149/?type=3&theater

He'll be doing SOMEthing.

There's just no way that he comes out with this and NOW we're f*cking fighting with Iran again. Last time that happened this f*cking guy had the belt for 4 years and Iron Sheik got to go on Howard Stern 800 times.

All things are connected. That's why I'm not concerned. If things get really bad, Hogan'll just beat up Sgt. Slaughter again and everything will be fine. It's how these things go.

[Roseangelo]

I work on a military base. Getting in is now a PITA and I will probably be late every day for the foreseeable future.

[Voltron]

I would be more than a little apprehensive about working anywhere near a military base at the moment. :teek:

[Leo656]

Depends how many military personnel of Iranian descent there are working in or around said base.

Sounds horrible, but lest we forget that Muslim guy who snapped and shot up his own base back in 2009 or so; I totally forget his name or which branch of the U.S. military he was part of (Might've been in Texas? I genuinely don't remember). I just remember after the fact, tons of people saying, "Yeah... probably should have kept a closer eye on that one. Maybe should have paid more attention when he grew his beard out and started walking around wearing prayer robes instead of his uniform, but y'know... we didn't wanna be racist or anything." Which I'm sure was of great comfort to the families of all the people he shot and killed on the base, people who knew him and had previously been friendly with him until he blew them away. "WELL, you guys ignored every single warning sign and a lot of people are dead for no reason, BUT, at least nobody was being racist or engaging in profiling! That makes it all better!"

Sometimes it's better safe than sorry. How do we know who's been "radicalized" and who hasn't been? Were I in charge, any Iranians in the U.S. military would be sent home until further notice, just to prevent any, shall we say, "conflicts of interest" that might turn out poorly. Let them keep getting paid if need be. But I damn sure wouldn't let blind faith in the inherent goodness of mankind guide my decision-making process, or let them carry guns and grenades. Just send them home with pay until it all blows over.

That said, I'm not sure how many Iranians are currently serving in the U.S. military, anyway, but I have to assume it's not many at all. Probably not much to worry about. Like most things, the potential far outweighs the actual risk.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't know if I'd go that far. The military enlistment here is pretty good. If you can make it and hack it after the academy and all, they do a pretty good job of weeding out the flakeys and whackjobs. That doesn't mean that there aren't still people that enlist that just want to be able to kill someone... but betray the country? Eh, maybe, but I doubt that. I'd trust they'd be vetted by their peers and superiors given what they have to go through. My wife was in the army 12 years and 8 years spent in Iraq so I hear a lot.

But if Iran was able to get to someone's family in the service? Eh, I dunno. But beyond some major league organized move there's not too much 1 soldier can do.

[Leo656]

But yet it happens. Again, I can't recall the specifics, but a Totally Normal Soldier who was well-liked, well-respected, and never raised any red flags, one day up and murdered a bunch of people on his base because he didn't like how the U.S. was behaving overseas. This happened on an American base, on American soil, just over 10 years ago. Turns out he was a lot more Muslim than he was an American Serviceman. And based on that, he killed a bunch of people. Go figure.

I mean, there WERE some flags. He started growing out his beard and wearing robes instead of his uniform, and as I recall it was allowed because he cited "religious freedom", but "coincidentally" it's also what people start doing when they're becoming radicalized, and shortly after, he snapped and started shooting up the base. People died, for no good reason. Because up until then, he was A Nice Guy. Until he wasn't.

It doesn't take much and it doesn't take long. To be perfectly blunt, I'd rather have someone accuse me of being prejudiced, while I'm still living and breathing, than be told how swell it was that I never pre-judged anyone while I'm rotting in the ground for turning a blind eye to the wrong person.

How does one KNOW that someone who's currently a Marine, whose parents came here from Iran, isn't going to snap and turn on his own fellows if by chance one of his cousins in Iran gets killed during a bombing run? You can't know. I, personally, wouldn't take the chance.

But that's why I'm not in charge. I'm pragmatic, not "nice".

[IMJ]

2 missile attacks on military bases in Iraq tonight....

[Andrew NDB]

2 missile attacks on military bases in Iraq tonight....

Missiles launched from Iran itself INTO Iraq, apparently. But I guess at bases/installations where no one was there or hurt? Eugh. On the one hand it seems like just enough of a careful ploy to satisfy "See? We did something to retaliate!" from Iran while not actually doing enough (as in actually killing Americans) as to illicit more from us. As in a declaration of war. No, I suspect this is where it ends, maybe with some sanctions/general uneasiness for a while, but it depends on how we want to humor this attack. Maybe some mild return fire.

[Leo656]

Time To SEND FOR THE MAN!!!
https://media.giphy.com/media/atGmvkuTUD7Fe/giphy.gif

(I'm aware "Send For The Man" is a Randy Savage meme. Work with me here.)

[IMJ]

Missiles launched from Iran itself INTO Iraq, apparently. But I guess at bases/installations where no one was there or hurt? Eugh. Oh the one hand it seems like just enough of a careful ploy to satisfy "See? We did something to retaliate!" while not actually doing enough (as in actually killing Americans) as to illicit more from us. As in a declaration of war. No, I suspect this is where it ends, maybe with some sanctions/general uneasiness for a while, but it depends on how we want to humor this attack. Maybe some mild return fire.

I didn't think that they had confirmation of causality or primary targeting yet, but I haven't turned on the news in about two hours or so.

I think the whole "Iran Saves Face" scenario is plausible and likely, but I wasn't going to speculate anything about that until we knew more details. They'd be crazy to overtly kill an American citizen on retaliation when they don't have a rogue general to hide behind doing it for them. And they'd be crazier to kill a single homeland citizen, but again we will get into that later when more details come out.

[Andrew NDB]

Seems to be exactly the case:

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/us-iran-news-01-08-2020/index.html

"Iran appears to be standing down"

"Trump's Iran comments suggests there won't be a military response"

[IMJ]

Seems to be exactly the case:

https://www.cnn.com/middleeast/live-news/us-iran-news-01-08-2020/index.html

"Iran appears to be standing down"

"Trump's Iran comments suggests there won't be a military response"

This is rational and good. Iranian leadership is saying though that their "response" was not enough. But I'd guess that's more showmanship on their part.

[Voltron]

A direct attack on United States military bases and the only response is a sigh of relief from the White House? Weakness incarnate.

The previous administration hunted down and assassinated terrorists. This one cowers at their reprisals. The United States has never looked weaker. Let's get a real man in there to show the world how it's done.

Boo.

[Andrew NDB]

They attacked our embassy so we took out their #2 guy and we still didn't get dragged into a war. Seems like win win to me.

[Voltron]

I'm just having fun at your expense. It occurred to me during the last admin that anything can be spun into an abject failure. Now I do it just to see how frustrated people get when "Obama=always bad" is changed to "Trump=always bad".

In that spirit, this is a definite and total loss on the part of the United States. We've been attacked by an enemy and our president has given absolutely no comfort in his response. Now the world knows we are afraid of going to war, and they'll most likely use it to their advantage.

Thanks, Obam-I mean Trump.

[IMJ]

They attacked our embassy so we took out their #2 guy and we still didn't get dragged into a war. Seems like win win to me.

Pretty much this.

I'm just having fun at your expense. It occurred to me during the last admin that anything can be spun into an abject failure. Now I do it just to see how frustrated people get when "Obama=always bad" is changed to "Trump=always bad".

In that spirit, this is a definite and total loss on the part of the United States. We've been attacked by an enemy and our president has given absolutely no comfort in his response. Now the world knows we are afraid of going to war, and they'll most likely use it to their advantage.

Thanks, Obam-I mean Trump.

The thread locking forum moderator is admitting above that he's poking the bear. Oh the irony. ;)

But I'm not mad at him about it. It was just too easy a thing to point out that the thread locking forum moderator is admitting above that he's poking the bear.


:P :lol::lol::lol:

All kidding aside though, I am relieved that we got that bastard general and if things had to play out beyond that, then this is fine. Now I just hope that integrity everywhere prevails and it's truly the end of it. But I won't say I trust the Iranian government or culture to have it be the end.