Is Lady Deathstrike from X-men based on Karai or is it the other way round?

[The Great Saiyaman]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4j25gzVYAERKYw.jpg
Lady Deathstrike as depicted in the early nineties by Jim Lee.

But when I found that comic again I went "Hold on..."
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/9/92/Mirage-Karai.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20091115025013

and the 2003 version even more.
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/tmnt/images/5/53/Karai-ff.png/revision/latest/scale-to-width-down/340?cb=20131210203307

So knowing that Eastman and Laird made no secret about using Marvel comics as their inspiration and marvel comics artists also doing the same with other comic books, it made me wonder.

Is Lady Deathstrike based on Karai or is it the other way around, is Karai based on lady Deathstrike?

[Autbot_Benz]

Deathstrike came first she was in the comics in 1986

[Andrew NDB]

Deathstrike came first she was in the comics in 1986 Karai wasn't introduced in the comics until IDW brought her in

What are you talking about? Karai was introduced in the Mirage comics in 1992.

[CyberCubed]

All Asian women look alike!

[neatoman]

Are we sure that shoulder pad vest thing isn't some kind of pre-existing type of clothing that both Mirage and Marvel took inspiration from?

[IndigoErth]

Are we sure that shoulder pad vest thing isn't some kind of pre-existing type of clothing that both Mirage and Marvel took inspiration from?
Yeah, I'm thinking maybe that. I mean maybe one took inspiration from the other, but it's not really a complicated design choice that two properties could independently decide to go with... one as a vest and other...clearly going for that whole open chest, useless lady armor look.

[Andrew NDB]

By the time Karai showed up in that costume with the shoulder things, it was actually already 1993... smack in the middle of Liefield's Youngblood and WildCATS and all that original Image stuff. I'd bet the farm there was a lot of that shoulder business going on.

[BlimeyBullhop]

Deathstrike came first she was in the comics in 1986 Karai wasn't introduced in the comics until IDW brought her in

Bloody idiot you are

[Autbot_Benz]

Bloody idiot you are

Its called an honest mistake you twit :roll:

[IndigoErth]

Well that escalated quickly.

By the time Karai showed up in that costume with the shoulder things, it was actually already 1993... smack in the middle of Liefield's Youngblood and WildCATS and all that original Image stuff. I'd bet the farm there was a lot of that shoulder business going on.
Hm, and kind of through and on the late end of the big shoulder fashion trends in the real world, so makes sense.

[PApagreg]

Why did you make a thread when you can just google it.

[AquaParade]

Why did you make a thread when you can just google it.

I’d say cut slack. This is not at all near the worst offense of this type of thing. OP even provided pictures, and there may have been something worth discussing here.

[Egon1982]

Deathstrike came first so i think Karai was inspired by her.

[Andrew NDB]

Hm, and kind of through and on the late end of the big shoulder fashion trends in the real world, so makes sense.

I mean more the armored shoulder bandolier things on female characters in comics in the early 90s, not the shoulder padded powersuits of the 80s in real life. Though that was probably the inspiration.

[Leo656]

All Asian women look alike!

Yeah but you're not supposed to say so out loud anymore, silly.

I think the connection between these two characters is tenuous at best. Also, whenever I see 1990-1994 fashion trends on comic book characters, I can't help but wonder what the f*ck was going on. Who could have ever thought any of that sh*t looked good? Kyle Rayner is like, It, he's like the one character created from that time period whose costume didn't make him look like a complete toolbox (although he kinda looked like he was playing Space Hockey). Superboy, too, I guess, depending on your tolerance for Needless, Randomly-Placed Belts. But that's IT! Everything else sucked a fat one.

How Guy Gardner's "Leather Jacket, Jeans-Tucked-Into-Cowboy Boots" costume became one of the outfits to have aged the BEST from that time period just goes to show you how nutty things really were back then. And he even got turned into some kinda Ultimate Warrior/T-1000 hybrid eventually.

What a mess. There's actually a lot of good and great stories from early-90s super-hero comics, but man, the costumes generally did not age well at all. Oof.

[Candy Kappa]

Are we sure that shoulder pad vest thing isn't some kind of pre-existing type of clothing that both Mirage and Marvel took inspiration from?

Probably inspired by the kataginu, a type of vest that have flared shoulders

[Leo656]

Google Image says you're most likely correct.

I also learned a new word I'll never remember how to spell. Neat.

[The Great Saiyaman]

NOT All Asian women look alike!
Fixed that for you.

Here's another iconic X-men character as drawn by Jim Lee.
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/81/50/4d/81504d4481ae880a136e31ab30be2da7.jpg
Back then I had no idea that Jubilee is supposed to be Asian.

Whereas current depictions of her make that very clear.
https://boundingintocomics.com/files/2019/03/2019.03.11-01.32-boundingintocomics-5c85baa4e3162.jpg

[Leo656]

I seem to recall every female character in the 90s having the exact same face, though.

Actually, come to think of it, that was pretty true of the male characters, too.

That was 90s Comics: One face, and a whole lotta pouches. :lol:

[Candy Kappa]

That was 90s Comics: One face, and a whole lotta pouches. :lol:

Feet optional

[Leo656]

Feet optional

Dan Jurgens and Tom Grummet were okay at it. :lol: Everyone else was spotty at best.

Jon Bogdanove overcompensated by making everyone's feet huge in response to the feet the other guys weren't drawing. :lol:

[The Great Saiyaman]

Dan Jurgens and Tom Grummet were okay at it. :lol: Everyone else was spotty at best.

Jon Bogdanove overcompensated by making everyone's feet huge in response to the feet the other guys weren't drawing. :lol:

Oh my god, you named the one guy who could make Rob Liefeld's drawings look good...
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Ris9uhRdVRY/VbJbpu_y3lI/AAAAAAAAaHc/TM8oMaHYk4w/s1600/X-Factor%2B%252358%2B-%2Bhulking%2BBeast.png

I have this hardcover edition of "Extinction agenda" and Bogdanove's art was so lousy that I wonder if there seriously was no editor who went "We can NOT put this out!"

[Leo656]

Wow, that's pretty bad. I was never a fan of Bogdanove but had only really seen his DC stuff. They must have had some good inkers at DC because that there is pretty pitiful.

I hear he's a nice guy. Probably is.

[The Great Saiyaman]

Wow, that's pretty bad. I was never a fan of Bogdanove but had only really seen his DC stuff. They must have had some good inkers at DC because that there is pretty pitiful.

I hear he's a nice guy. Probably is.

As I said, in "Extinction agenda" he made Rob Liefeld's art look good. But also because he apparently had no idea on what the others were drawing which made for inexcusable continuity mistakes.

- Liefeld and Jim Lee drew Wolverine in his orange and brown suit. Whereas Bogdanove drew him wearing jeans.
- Liefeld and Lee drew Wipeout as a short pudgy man with white spiked hair and glasses, Bogdanove drew him with a mullet and a mustache.
- Liefeld and Lee depicted Wolfsbane wearing her Mutate uniform, Bogdanove depicted wearing rags.

Seriously was there no communication between the three of them of "I drew this and the characters are looking like that." as I said before, why was there no editor who went "we cannot release this!"

[Leo656]

Wow, that's comical and absurd.

I've seen, like, the size/shape of a gun or something change between pages or panels, or like in an ongoing situation like the four Superman books were arranged back in the 90s when the story would pass to the next creative team each week, there would be some minor inconsistencies. Actually, for the most part the Superman creative teams were incredibly tight with that kinda thing, to the point where if his cape ripped in Action Comics they'd try really hard to make it identical in Adventures of Superman and so on, but you get what I mean. Different people drawing the book each week meant that little imperfections and inconsistencies would inevitably creep through, and some were more noticeable than others. It happens.

But what you've described is an absolute comedy of errors. This was a commercially-released product that people paid to read? People got paid to make it, and they didn't even communicate on a basic page-to-page level? How unprofessional. I know both companies were just cranking out product by the day with no rhyme or reason back then (Did You Know that "The Amazing Slapstick" had a four-issue mini-series and that Spider-Man was in it? I have the whole thing, for some reason! :lol: Who the f*ck is this guy?!), and that meant that quality would sometimes take a hit, but... wow, that sounds terrible. That's the sloppiest thing I've ever even heard of.

I learned something today, and I haven't even had breakfast yet. Thank you, Citizen.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I think Karai is more or less based on Lotus Blossom.

[Andrew NDB]

I think Karai is more or less based on Lotus Blossom.

No, I don't think for one moment Lotus Blossom was remotely in the back of the mind of Kevin, Peter, or Jim Lawson when Karai appeared in the comics. Lotus Blossom wasn't ever even on their radar.

[PApagreg]

No, I don't think for one moment Lotus Blossom was remotely in the back of the mind of Kevin, Peter, or Jim Lawson when Karai appeared in the comics. Lotus Blossom wasn't ever even on their radar.

How would you know that.

[Leo656]

There sure are similarities, superficial as they may be.

I'unno, 50/50. Maybe it was intentional and maybe it was mere serendipity.

[Powder]

How would you know that.

E&L hated the cartoon & wanted nothing to do with it. They didn't watch it or pull characters from it.

Question marks are your friend.

[Andrew NDB]

The similarities begin and end with "Japanese chick with a sword."

What year did the episode(s) with her come out, anyway?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

The similarities begin and end with "Japanese chick with a sword."

What year did the episode(s) with her come out, anyway?

Bweare the Lotus = 1989 (Season 3)

http://mutantooze.org/ninjaturtles/cartoon/guide/cart046.htm

Farewell Lotus Blossom = 1990 (Season 4)

http://mutantooze.org/ninjaturtles/cartoon/1990.htm

The first City at War Mirage comic is from August 1992

https://www.miragelicensing.com/comics/mirage/volume01/50/50.html

[PApagreg]

Question marks are your friend.

Eh, most people would've known it was a question.