CastleVania (Netflix)

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ibb.co/9h1QCR9/castlevania-season-3.jpg

So season 3 is out now. Anybody watching? I dug the first two seasons, despite a lack of Grant DaNasty.

Eh, apparently Alucard has a lot of sex with dudes this season?

[IMJ]

Eh, apparently Alucard has a lot of sex with dudes this season?

This is a show that at one point in my life I would've been super jazzed about. But now I had a hard time getting through all of the season 1 talking heads. Now I read this and ...eh... I'm out.

I met and interviewed Warren Ellis at Chicago Comic Con once not quite a decade ago now. This was during his Aparat Comics venture. He was a nice guy to talk to, although I found that a lot of people don't share my opinion on that. I definitely feel like his GI Joe project was a lot more compelling than Castlevania turned out. I usually like his material.

[Voltron]

A lot of sex with dudes?

Did you watch it?

Alucard's storyline felt a bit forced this season, and I'd have just as soon left him out than see that. Oddly, in a show populated by literal demons from literal Hell, immortal vampires, and teleporting castles, I found his to be the farthest stretch.

I do understand why it was done. And if you're wondering if this is some political agenda move, it's not. It's a gruesome and dark take on the whole matter. Few of the characters escape the story without some darkness showing through. Those who don't find their moral alignment a liability more than an asset.

This is definitely felt like the second act in a play. It ended on an extremely morbid down note.

If you're a fan of the games or pop culture in general, I'd tell you to watch it but be prepared for some really unsettling plot elements. The smattering of awesome references from Tolkien, Lovecraft, Vonnegut, and Dante Alighieri are really well done.

Also, Isaac's story line is worth it. I'm so pumped for him to go ape **** murder happy on the Lesbian Empire. I really hope that happens next season.

[CyberCubed]

4 stories happened over 10 episodes. Everything could have been condensed. Alucard’s story went nowhere. What is the point of the two Asians turning on him and the backstory of the Asian vampire queen now? Not much.

The female vampire seducing the guy to be his slave all could have been done in half the time too. I am surprised they showed bare breasts though, it felt like I was watching some kind of hentai for a second. Since when do they allowed animated porn on Netflix?

The rest of the season was ok. Everyone talks real slow in the show so 5 lines of dialogue take 10 minutes. Best line was “What the **** is toilet paper?”

[Sumac]

Bare breasts were in the Symphony of the Night (kinda).

[Andrew NDB]

A lot of sex with dudes?

Did you watch it?

Naw, not yet.

the backstory of the Asian vampire queen now?

Maybe that's supposed to be Vampira.

It's a bit disappointing that they're still dicking around with Trevor. I was hoping they'd jump on to Simon Belmont by now. They've spent 2 seasons doing Castlevania III, and Curse of Darkness (that's what this season is adapting, right?) isn't really worth a season.

[IMJ]

4 stories happened over 10 episodes. Everything could have been condensed.

This is how I felt about season 1 and why I've had a hard time coming back. It's like there was a lot of content with snarky talking heads and not much else in what is supposed to be a fantasy action franchise.

Bare breasts were in the Symphony of the Night (kinda).

HA! LOL yeah... little, sprite, pixel monster boobies. Amazing game.

It's a bit disappointing that they're still dicking around with Trevor. I was hoping they'd jump on to Simon Belmont by now. They've spent 2 seasons doing Castlevania III, and Curse of Darkness (that's what this season is adapting, right?) isn't really worth a season.

Curse of Darkness. Bought it back in the day. Played a few minutes and never went back. Loved, loved, loved Lament of Innocence though.

[CyberCubed]

The anime only loosely reflects the games now, it's basically its own thing. It feels like a licensed show that uses the bare minimum of familiar Castlevania concepts but is pretty much its own thing. Which makes sense, the old Castlevania games never had much of a story to begin with, they're 2D sidescrollers with the bare minimum of plot.

[Voltron]

Curse of Darkness (that's what this season is adapting, right?) isn't really worth a season.

. . . Hector is FAR from his Curse of Darkness counterpart. I'm dying for him to get on that. The man's eaten enough crap over the past two seasons to last a lift time.

Isaac's story, however, is worth the weird stuff the season makes everyone else go through.

Simon's going to be difficult, since his stories were always solo.

I'd imagine we'd get more of the metroid-vania adaptations as time goes on. Potrait of Ruin, Harmony of Dissonance. . . those have more to work with, even though they're less popular.

My guess is we get Rondo of Blood into Symphony of the Night before we're out. But it's going to be weird with Dracula being so humanized. There's kind of a weird plot twist at the end of this season that really makes me wonder if how Drac is going to respond to the whole resurrection thing. . .

[Sumac]

HA! LOL yeah... little, sprite, pixel monster boobies. Amazing game.
Not only. (https://castlevaniadungeon.net/Images/Scans/SotN/dx15.jpg)
18+ warning

[Andrew NDB]

Simon's going to be difficult, since his stories were always solo.

An adaptation of Castlevania II: Simon's Quest seems feasible. Like episode 1 would be the end of the first game, then the rest of the season is him dealing with his curse, going all over town and the land getting all the pieces of Dracula to resurrect him and finish the job in the season finale.

I'd imagine we'd get more of the metroid-vania adaptations as time goes on. Potrait of Ruin, Harmony of Dissonance. . . those have more to work with, even though they're less popular.

You think they'd touch those? Maybe. I'd rather see them eventually get to and explore "Castlevania: Bloodlines." It's got a pretty cool premise. The son of Quincey Morris from Bram Stoker's Dracula teaming with a spearsman from Italy against a resurrected Dracula AND Elizabeth Bathory, with stops all over the world.

My guess is we get Rondo of Blood into Symphony of the Night before we're out.

Yeah, that will definitely be covered. The way they Symphony of the Night-ed Castlevania III tells you very much what their favorite Castlevania game is.

But it's going to be weird with Dracula being so humanized. There's kind of a weird plot twist at the end of this season that really makes me wonder if how Drac is going to respond to the whole resurrection thing. . .

I haven't seen any of season 3 yet but after 2, I figured every time he resurrects he will be "less human."

Anybody else disappointed we don't see any of the other Castlevania villains in this? Throughout the whole series, Death is like the #2 bad guy and he's a total no show (or does he pop into season 3?). And I can understand them not wanting to put Frankenstein's monster and the Mummy in the show... but why not Medusa?

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]An adaptation of Castlevania II: Simon's Quest seems feasible. Like episode 1 would be the end of the first game, then the rest of the season is him dealing with his curse, going all over town and the land getting all the pieces of Dracula to resurrect him and finish the job in the season finale.

I'd love to see it, yeah. It's an interesting premise to have a Belmont trying to resurrect Dracula. The problem I see with it is the supporting cast. This series focuses on the drama between the characters. Simon was a solo story, and I'm positive they'd try to wedge Alucard or something in there.

You think they'd touch those? Maybe. I'd rather see them eventually get to and explore "Castlevania: Bloodlines." It's got a pretty cool premise. The son of Quincey Morris from Bram Stoker's Dracula teaming with a spearsman from Italy against a resurrected Dracula AND Elizabeth Bathory, with stops all over the world.


Definitely. It seems right in line with what Ellis is doing.

Yeah, that will definitely be covered. The way they Symphony of the Night-ed Castlevania III tells you very much what their favorite Castlevania game is.

That, and Castlevania 3 plays right into Symphony of the Night.

I haven't seen any of season 3 yet but after 2, I figured every time he resurrects he will be "less human."

I want to see this, too. I'm used to him going full bat-demon when backed into a corner. I'd love a "behold my true form, and despair!" moment.

Anybody else disappointed we don't see any of the other Castlevania villains in this? Throughout the whole series, Death is like the #2 bad guy and he's a total no show (or does he pop into season 3?). And I can understand them not wanting to put Frankenstein's monster and the Mummy in the show... but why not Medusa?

We've been getting a lot of lesser guys. The Merman, Cthulu, and some other background characters show up in this season. In some cases, it's super brief, but it's there.

The other monsters would be awesome. I wonder if there's some fear of copyright infringement? All the original bosses were Universal movie monsters. Even Olrox from SOTN is a misspelling of Orlock from Nosferatu.

I am dying (pun intended) for Death to show up. He's got to. It's Death.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd love to see it, yeah. It's an interesting premise to have a Belmont trying to resurrect Dracula. The problem I see with it is the supporting cast. This series focuses on the drama between the characters. Simon was a solo story, and I'm positive they'd try to wedge Alucard or something in there.

I'd be OK with Alucard popping in to some capacity. Or just creating some kind of supporting cast for Simon.

Definitely. It seems right in line with what Ellis is doing.

The DS ones that take place in the future/near future could be interesting. Though the story descriptions I've read sound pretty corny.

That, and Castlevania 3 plays right into Symphony of the Night.

Sort of. But if they just jump into it they'd have to jump over Christopher, Soleiyu, and Simon. I guess I'd be happy with some kind of extended montage covering all of that.

I liked the nod to Leon Belmont (it was Leon, right?) in season 1 or 2. The room Trevor found and you see his portrait.

I want to see this, too. I'm used to him going full bat-demon when backed into a corner. I'd love a "behold my true form, and despair!" moment.

Yes! It's not Castlevania if Dracula doesn't have at LEAST one super form.

The other monsters would be awesome. I wonder if there's some fear of copyright infringement? All the original bosses were Universal movie monsters. Even Olrox from SOTN is a misspelling of Orlock from Nosferatu.

Aren't those all absolved of copyright law/public domain? Like, can't anyone make their own Dracula movie tomorrow without paying a license to anyone (I did, sort of)? Same with Frankenstein.

I am dying (pun intended) for Death to show up. He's got to. It's Death.

He should be there. Maybe he figures into things when his resurrections start.

[sdp]

I fell asleep watching the first season when it first came out, I think my main attraction to the castlevania story was the lore of different belmonts having to kill dracula but that isn't a great story to tell, it's a fun experience to play. It's a basic story after all.


I am surprised they showed bare breasts though,

Castlevania has always had nudity even if it was background statue in the NES days, even the NECA figure from over a decade ago had a topless succubus based off the game.

The anime only loosely reflects the games now, it's basically its own thing. It feels like a licensed show that uses the bare minimum of familiar Castlevania concepts but is pretty much its own thing. Which makes sense, the old Castlevania games never had much of a story to begin with, they're 2D sidescrollers with the bare minimum of plot.

You answer your own question.

[Voltron]

[QUOTE]I'd be OK with Alucard popping in to some capacity. Or just creating some kind of supporting cast for Simon.

One complaint I've heard is that Alucard is overshadowing Trevor. Castlevania was, first and foremost, a story about the Belmont clan vs. Dracula.

While I don't think Alucard has done that, I would be wary of him being over-used as a character. If he becomes a constant through out the series, there is a risk of it suffering, I feel.


The DS ones that take place in the future/near future could be interesting. Though the story descriptions I've read sound pretty corny.

Those are straight up manga plot lines. At least Harmony of Dissonance and it's sequel are. If you've never played them, it feels a bit weird.


Sort of. But if they just jump into it they'd have to jump over Christopher, Soleiyu, and Simon. I guess I'd be happy with some kind of extended montage covering all of that.

Damn. Most people just jump those. Castlevania is difficult. Gameboy games are difficult. I always avoided the melding of the two because it sounded like something you'd give to prisoners at Abu Ghraib.

I liked the nod to Leon Belmont (it was Leon, right?) in season 1 or 2. The room Trevor found and you see his portrait.

That was bad ass.

Yes! It's not Castlevania if Dracula doesn't have at LEAST one super form.

Damn right.

Aren't those all absolved of copyright law/public domain? Like, can't anyone make their own Dracula movie tomorrow without paying a license to anyone (I did, sort of)? Same with Frankenstein.

I think so, but they may suffer from Disneyitis. In that, I can make a Beauty and the Beast movie, but I can't use Disney's depictions of them.

He should be there. Maybe he figures into things when his resurrections start.

I'm hoping Isaac becomes Shaft.

[Egon1982]

This is how I felt about season 1 and why I've had a hard time coming back. It's like there was a lot of content with snarky talking heads and not much else in what is supposed to be a fantasy action franchise.



HA! LOL yeah... little, sprite, pixel monster boobies. Amazing game.



Curse of Darkness. Bought it back in the day. Played a few minutes and never went back. Loved, loved, loved Lament of Innocence though.

Sympathy of the Night is my third fave Castlevania after IV being number 1, 3 number 2 and Sympathy being 3.

[Andrew NDB]

Watched episode 1 of season 3. Yeah, what's with them making up all these lower tier monsters when there's so many classic ones to choose from? Sure there will be some walking skeletons at some point, at least, yeah?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I felt that Season 1 was the best so far. Having the lowest episode count managed to streamline and focus the story arc.

Season 2 had some interesting concepts and some good banter between Trevor and Alucard, not to mention a brief hint of a possible romance between Trevor and Sypha. Bloody Tears in the hallway scene was a pleasant surprise

Season 3 felt like it existed purely to set up a season 4. It wasn't bad, but it was definitely the weakest of all the seasons so far

I have a feeling that they might not get to Simon, Christopher, Juste, Richter etc. as something tells me that Trevor's story might be it for the show

I'd love to be proven wrong though

[CyberCubed]

I also feel like the show pretends to be smarter than it is. It's a good show but they act like the characters have all this depth when honestly they don't.

[Andrew NDB]

I felt that Season 1 was the best so far. Having the lowest episode count managed to streamline and focus the story arc.

I guess it did.

I have a feeling that they might not get to Simon, Christopher, Juste, Richter etc. as something tells me that Trevor's story might be it for the show

At this rate, no way. They're playing in spaces that aren't that interesting, game-wise, and just making stuff up. Largely. Nobody was clamoring for a Curse of Darkness adaptation and this is barely/not even that.

And all of this, 3 seasons on Castlevania IIi... and no Grant.

[Sage Ninja]

Did anyone else think that the mayor of that town Sypha and Trevor was going to turn out to be "death?"

Hector...holy crap. When will this guy get his moment to shine? Just about every character he has come across has made him face (f)uck the pavement in some over the top demeaning manner. :trolleye: I am am torn between thinking he deserves everything that is happening to him because what he is experiencing is pretty much what he wanted for all of humanity to suffer at the hands of vampires and feeling bad for him. Because Hector for all his screwed up actions seems to be genuinely mentally...I don't even know...but he seems incapable of taking control of his life and taking responsibility for anything. I want him to have some agency.

Lenore is an interesting character and the only one of Carmilla's group who I feel is actually interesting and worth a damn. I find Carmilla annoying and the other are just blah, so far. I both hate Lenore for the depraved deceitful trick she pulled and appreciate what a ruthlessly EVIL, calculating, and ingenious piece of work she is. If nothing else I like how she comes off as soft, demure, weak she seems at first and to discover she is the worst one of them all. I want Hector to turn the tables on her so bad (and I think there is a loophole in those slave rings he can exploit), she so deserves it but at the same time I appreciate how good at being a demon she is.

[CyberCubed]

Are the 4 vampire women sisters or lesbians? Because two of them seem in love with each other...so are they...lesbian sisters? Incest?

[Sage Ninja]

they are sister in name, not blood.

the literary Camilla vampire was a lesbian though. So far this fictionalized version of her has not shown any same sex attraction to anyone. Though that could change. Lenore so far has shown to be heterosexual.

[Sumac]

Haven't watched the show and not even sure if I like it.
That said, from what I've heard they took story into its own direction.

And I wonder if they incorporate Laura into the series?

[CyberCubed]

At this point it's basically Castlevania in name only. Sure they use some of the same characters and you'll recognize some of the monsters from the games, but the story is just all new as well as the direction they go in.

I mean the classic Castlevania games never had much story anyway since they were old 2D games on NES/SNES, etc, so I guess it doesn't really matter.

[Leo656]

Man, this sounded good and I kinda wanted to check it out... but it sounds like it really ain't that good after the first Season. :ohwell: I'unno, should I bother? I kinda still want to.

[CyberCubed]

The show only has 22 episodes so far (and next season might be the last one), so it's so short that even if you don't care for it you can get through it quickly. The entire show is just the length of one season of any regular show.

[Leo656]

That makes sense, pal. If I see it cheap again I'll snag it.

[Voltron]

Man, this sounded good and I kinda wanted to check it out... but it sounds like it really ain't that good after the first Season. :ohwell: I'unno, should I bother? I kinda still want to.

The second season was the best one, in my opinion. Though the first season was the truest to the source material. The third season is a weird departure. It's fun, but I'd hesitate to call it Castlevania. Those last couple episodes were a wild ride, too.

[Leo656]

I mean, if there's really not even that many episodes then I don't have anything to lose. I'll give it a shot one'a these days. I just wanna find it cheap.

[Andrew NDB]

Getting a little further now. Yeah, they're just having a good old time now. Screwing around in Trevor/Hector stuff. I doubt they'll move past this. They're just making up new characters and stuff now.

[Andrew NDB]

Finished season 3 now. Wow, what a total waste of a season.

Basically Trevor and Sypha stumble upon some town they made up with made up characters (except for St. Germain) who it turns out are trying to bring back Dracula. They stop them and Dracula never comes back. Alucard plays host to two kids who he has sex with and then kills. Hector gets abused a lot by made-up vampire characters. Isaac goes after Carmilla but then decides to take out a possessed town instead.

That's it, that's what happened. They'll need to skip a bunch of years to even get to the "Curse of Darkness" stuff with Hector vs. Isaac... and I'm not even sure how they'd make it work now. Hector would need to escape the made-up vampire ladies, get a fiancee, Rosaly, who'd then be killed by Isaac.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Not sure what to make of this

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/13/women-speak-out-about-warren-ellis-transmetropolitan

[Leo656]

Not sure what to make of this

https://www.theguardian.com/books/2020/jul/13/women-speak-out-about-warren-ellis-transmetropolitan

Did you mean to post this here on purpose? Just curious.

Hmm. Interesting situation. Did everyone consent? Did anything illegal happen? Yes and No, apparently, although he's definitely, definitely a shady character all the same. But them's the breaks. Back In My Day, we called these guys "players" (or "playaz" if you prefer), and nobody was unaware that they existed. If you were a girl, you were taught from an early age to be well aware of them, although that never seemed to stop anyone from falling for them anyway.

I'unno. They say "full and informed consent was never possible" with this guy, and I admit, he's apparently quite the lying scuzzball. But again, once upon a time it wasn't just automatically assumed that people were who they said they were, or that any virtue they displayed at any point was genuine.

Maybe it's because most of my family are women, but I was raised with the basic idea that all men really care or think about is getting trim, and that the women are supposed to know that's all they care about and adjust their dealings with them based on that information.

19 rotating chicks at once is a bit excessive, sure, but again, if someone can pull that off, then they will. Some people are shocked by this? Why? I don't get it.

If you're female, and a guy's even talking to you, odds are good that he'd poke ya if you offered and has probably at least once thought about how that might work. I don't know why anyone ever expects anything different. It would be NICE if people weren't like that, but... they are.

Meh. I'unno. Dude obviously is a bit of a sociopath and could use a bit of empathy for other people. But if I'm a woman, and a guy with any sort of "clout" is offering to "mentor" me in any chosen field, I'm immediately gonna assume that he's trying to get in my pants and has already done the same thing with others, and I'm at the absolute least gonna keep one eye open to the situation as it unfolds.

I mean, Christ, once a guy tells you that "I'm in an open relationship", he's all but telling you that he's a philanderer. Men aren't the ones who claim "open relationships", women are the ones who do that, when they're with a cuck and the relationship is "stable" but still wanna fool around with better-looking guys. Guys only say they're in an "open relationship" if they're cheating on their partner and want you to think it's not scummy. And remember, if they're cheating WITH you, then they're also cheating ON you, 100% of the time, and you're supposed to remember that, too. There's RULES to these things, dammit! People are supposed to know The Rules! :lol: If you don't take the time to learn The Rules, and then you get played, well... that's kinda on you, I figure.

On the flip side, for guys, among other things there's "Don't take strippers home." Like if you can pull it off, then f*ck 'em, but you don't DATE 'em, you don't actually hang out with them once the "transaction" is over with. Again, there's "Rules", whether you're a guy or a girl. "Ignorance of the law is no excuse" and all that.

Sounds to me like a bunch of women got played. They were fine being "The Other Woman" until it happened to them. The sheer number of women he was able to juggle is a bit much, sure, but again, if you can manage it, then You Win. But they all knew they were with A Guy Who Cheats right from the jump, pretty much, at least in many of the cases, so... well I don't wanna be mean, but how naive can a person be, anyway? Come on.

Guy rocks a goat beard AND a fedora, man. :lol: He might as well be wearing a sign that says "I pretend to be nice so women will have sex with me" in big giant block letters. :trazz:

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

It's a shame that the reputation of the Fedora has gone downhill in the last few years or so. They're still cool hats if you ask me

[Andrew NDB]

Press charges or it's nothing. Period.

[Leo656]

It's a shame that the reputation of the Fedora has gone downhill in the last few years or so. They're still cool hats if you ask me

Oh, indeed. I own one myself, since oh, about 1991 or so, when I was a huge Dick Tracy fanatic (It's not yellow, though. :lol:). Of course, I haven't actually worn it since about 1994 or so, on account of, y'know... mullet. :lol: Some things just don't mesh well. Although that Jericho guy seems to pull it off, but that dude's nuts. Guy wears a scarf!

It's a cool hat that's come to be associated with a certain, unfortunate type of person in recent times. It gives off a certain "signal"; like when you see a guy who wears socks with sandals, or sandals at all, really. You don't even have to start a conversation with them to know that you're dealing with a monster. No sane person represents themselves to the world that way, is all.

Some things just tell you lots of information about a person without it needing to be spoken. In my case, a person might see my haircut and guess, "I bet you anything that guy, at one point in his life, owned a Chevy Camaro with a V8 Iroc engine, lifts weights in his driveway, and gets way too enthusiastic when Bon Jovi comes on the radio." And that person would be absolutely right. :lol: Once more, if you can't read the signals then you need more training, simple as that.

[AquaParade]

Pretty bad behavior, but I?m not sure it actually deserves to be public discourse.

Lmao, Leo, you have a strong argument. I’m not sure I’m fully on board but I’m not denying it yet either.

[Leo656]

It's all in the handbook. If The Society catches you rocking a mullet but you never had the Iroc Z they send people to your house to cut it off in your sleep because you haven't earned the privilege to wear your hair like that.

There's Rules as to how people present themselves, and what it all means. Lots and lots of Rules. Nobody ever leaves the house looking like an idiot on purpose without serious ulterior motives. :lol:

[Sumac]

19 women is a bit excessive, but, damn, that takes skill.
As long as everyone consented and was not taken advantage of, then they can just **** off and stop pretending to be kids, who can't take responsibility for their actions.

[Andrew NDB]

So the next season (which comes out in just under a month, I guess) is going to be the LAST season?

https://comicbook.com/anime/news/castlevania-netflix-season-4-final-season/?fbclid=IwAR0cD5L-5appeXMC5EPiAXZJDTVZFvGGpjfVgFLkVrmQMqgUwHiLvad4iW A

How stupid. They barely covered CV3 (and didn't even include Grant) and blew all of the last season limping toward "Curse of Darkness" which nobody even liked and I doubt they'll even get to at this rate. What happened to touching on other Belmonts and moving forward and all? What a crock.

[Sumac]

Anyone willing to make bets who will be raped in the ass this season?

[Andrew NDB]

Anyone willing to make bets who will be raped in the ass this season?

My only hope is not the audiences, again.

[Sumac]

My only hope is not the audiences, again.
Good one! :lol:

But I wouldn't count on that.

[CyberCubed]

I don't know why they turned the last episodes into some kind of hentai porno. Seeing animated boobs in a western produced cartoon (remember this isn't an anime, it's made in America), was odd to say the least. I'm sure Konami had to sign off on this stuff too so given Castlevania is still marketed toward kids it basically made the show 18+ only just by that one scene.

[Leo656]

Ahhh sh*t, there's tits in this? Damn, now I gotta watch it. :lol: I totally wasn't even paying attention but now I guess I HAVE to.

[The Deadman]

I don't know why they turned the last episodes into some kind of hentai porno. Seeing animated boobs in a western produced cartoon (remember this isn't an anime, it's made in America), was odd to say the least. I'm sure Konami had to sign off on this stuff too so given Castlevania is still marketed toward kids it basically made the show 18+ only just by that one scene.

Just because it wasn't produced in Japan doesn't mean it wasn't anime. Also....when in the hell has Castlevania EVER been marketed towards children? Just because it was on the original NES doesn't necessarily make it a kid's game.

[Andrew NDB]

Also....when in the hell has Castlevania EVER been marketed towards children?

Since I was a child. I remember having my parents order me the Scholastic "Castlevania 2" book.

[oldmanwinters]

We also had Simon Belmont as a series regular in the Captain N cartoon! :tlol:

z6wgCxt1l0o

[CyberCubed]

Just because it wasn't produced in Japan doesn't mean it wasn't anime. Also....when in the hell has Castlevania EVER been marketed towards children? Just because it was on the original NES doesn't necessarily make it a kid's game.

All the Castlevania games are aimed at kids. Most of us got into the series as kids. Even in the early 2000's the GBA and DS games were aimed at the kids growing up in that generation after the 80's/90's kids grew up.

[Andrew NDB]

What's odd is how this whole series was commissioned as a kind of "let's get people interested in Castlevania again!" and the first two seasons were white hot... yet... from even before the first season came out until now, there hasn't been a single new Castlevania game in the works. What a waste.

[CyberCubed]

Konami has been dire lately, Metal Gear Solid has also been on hiatus since Kojima left the company. Out of all the Japanese publishers like Capcom, Square, Sega, Namco, etc...Konami always felt the most stuck in the past. It was really only Kojima keeping Metal Gear Solid relevant all those years but without him the series is more or less done.

Ever since the PS3/360 gen it's always been obvious Japanese developers started to fall behind western developers, and that's why most of the popular third party game franchises these days don't come from Japan anymore. We're probably lucky Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Sonic, etc. managed to stay relevant after 30 years.

[TigerClaw]

Konami has been dire lately, Metal Gear Solid has also been on hiatus since Kojima left the company. Out of all the Japanese publishers like Capcom, Square, Sega, Namco, etc...Konami always felt the most stuck in the past. It was really only Kojima keeping Metal Gear Solid relevant all those years but without him the series is more or less done.

Ever since the PS3/360 gen it's always been obvious Japanese developers started to fall behind western developers, and that's why most of the popular third party game franchises these days don't come from Japan anymore. We're probably lucky Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Sonic, etc. managed to stay relevant after 30 years.
Its a shame because they have a lot of classic games, And they could've done new versions of them.

[Andrew NDB]

I'd say Capcom is the one most stuck in the past. Like, everything they do is that.

[CyberCubed]

As long as their games remain consistently good, they basically do the same thing Nintendo does and keeps them around. Mega Man, Street Fighter, Resident Evil, Devil May Cry and now Monster Hunter are basically huge franchises. They've had almost consistently good games with only a few duds here and there, so it's nice to see some consistency.

[Sumac]

Just because it wasn't produced in Japan doesn't mean it wasn't anime. Also....when in the hell has Castlevania EVER been marketed towards children? Just because it was on the original NES doesn't necessarily make it a kid's game.
Anime - refers to animation made in Japan, not a genre of animation.
Thus animation made in the West can not be anime by definition, even if its shares some traits with it.

Also, Castlevania games always were for kids, like most other games ever made. Or you want to convince me that Symphony of the Night was aimed for 18+ public?

Lords of Shadow attempted to be mature and edgy, but that's not normally what Castlevania is (or at least this is not what it was for the last decade, before LOS).

I'd say Capcom is the one most stuck in the past. Like, everything they do is that.
Its not like they are producing successful sequels or something...:ohwell:

Konami has been dire lately, Metal Gear Solid has also been on hiatus since Kojima left the company. Out of all the Japanese publishers like Capcom, Square, Sega, Namco, etc...Konami always felt the most stuck in the past. It was really only Kojima keeping Metal Gear Solid relevant all those years but without him the series is more or less done.
Konami attempted to make MGS game without Kojima and it was a disaster.
But in general, Konami owns more businesses than game developing studios, so for them developing game is not necessary to keep company

Ever since the PS3/360 gen it's always been obvious Japanese developers started to fall behind western developers, and that's why most of the popular third party game franchises these days don't come from Japan anymore. We're probably lucky Resident Evil, Final Fantasy, Sonic, etc. managed to stay relevant after 30 years.
Those dark times had arguably passed: Japanese companies have adopted new rules and now back again at being good.
I'd say now it is mostly Western developers that are lagging behind, overly relying on AAA stuff and milking same ideas until the well is well dry.

[Andrew NDB]

Its not like they are producing successful sequels or something...:ohwell:

"Sequels." There is a new sequel to Resident Evil every few years, for sure, and that always seems to evolve... but yes, something like Street Fighter? They've been sh**ting out the same game since 1992.

Though even with Resident Evil. Beyond the occasional sequel they're largely just repackaging the existing old games with a fresh coat of paint.

[Sumac]

"Sequels." There is a new sequel to Resident Evil every few years, for sure, and that always seems to evolve... but yes, something like Street Fighter? They've been sh**ting out the same game since 1992.
I understand that you are not in a fighting games, dude, but saying stuff like this is just inviting enormous amount of ridicule.

No, Street Fighter V, like any other Street Fighter sequel, is nothing like SF2.

[Andrew NDB]

I understand that you are not in a fighting games

I play Tekken 7 at least a few times a week. Just not online, much... I get wasted. Maybe I win 1 out of 5 matches. But it's... me against the world. :) Are you on PS? My Lei Wulong will own your ass.

And my whole young adulthood was defined by me going to arcades fighting people at MK and SF and Tekken and Virtua Fighter. How dare you, sir. ;)

dude, but saying stuff like this is just inviting enormous amount of ridicule.

No, Street Fighter V, like any other Street Fighter sequel, is nothing like SF2.

Yes, yes, it's a 3D engine. Camera whips around and whatever. Maybe some new combos and ways to make them. But the skeleton is the same as SF2 (as in, 2D through and through), absolutely. Two fighters fighting in a straight line, can't deviate from that. You shoot the shoryuken and haryuken the same way.

[Sumac]

I play Tekken 7 at least a few times a week. Just not online, much... I get wasted. Maybe I win 1 out of 5 matches. But it's... me against the world. :) Are you on PS? My Lei Wulong will own your ass.

And my whole young adulthood was defined by me going to arcades fighting people at MK and SF and Tekken and Virtua Fighter. How dare you, sir. ;)
The fact that you are playing the game doesn't mean that you understand its finer details. Especially, if you say that 2D fighting games are all the same.

Yes, yes, it's a 3D engine. Camera whips around and whatever. Maybe some new combos and ways to make them. But the skeleton is the same as SF2 (as in, 2D through and through), absolutely. Two fighters fighting in a straight line, can't deviate from that. You shoot the shoryuken and haryuken the same way.
By this logic, all platformers are Castlevanias, all First Person Shooters are Doom, all Third Person Shooters are GTAs and all RPGs are Final Fantasies.

Its so reductive and limited approach, I can't even imagine how one can come to such a conclusion.

Also, Tekkens play much more similar to each other than Street Fighters. Tekken 7, for example, still reuses animations from Tekken 3. Talking about "same skeleton". And even than only inattentive person would say that Tekken 7 plays anything like previous Tekkens.

[Powder]

I wonder who will get F'd up the A this season.

[Leo656]

Sumac already made that joke a page back. :trazz:

The fact that you are playing the game doesn't mean that you understand its finer details. Especially, if you say that 2D fighting games are all the same.


By this logic, all platformers are Castlevanias, all First Person Shooters are Doom, all Third Person Shooters are GTAs and all RPGs are Final Fantasies.

Its so reductive and limited approach, I can't even imagine how one can come to such a conclusion.

Also, Tekkens play much more similar to each other than Street Fighters. Tekken 7, for example, still reuses animations from Tekken 3. Talking about "same skeleton". And even than only inattentive person would say that Tekken 7 plays anything like previous Tekkens.

By Andrew's standards we should all be playing fighting games on the Holodeck in fully-immersive VR by now, or else we're wasting our time and videogames have made zero progress. :lol:

Love ya buddy. :)

[Andrew NDB]

I just installed SF5 for kicks. Yeah. It's the same damn game I played in 1992 with a shiny new coat of paint (but I beat 5 out of 5 of the guys I just played online!). And Castlevania in 3D isn't wholly different from my argument about 3D fighters vs. 2D fighters. Konami was going the right direction with the N64 games, and probably the same with Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness. I can't comment on the "reboot" games because I've never played. But I think with enough finesse, it's completely possible to do a "Castletroid" game like Symphony in a fully 3D engine.

Just saw the first episode of the new season of Castlevania. Well I enjoy the dialogue. And it's nice to see actual Castlevania monsters for once... the undead skeletons and mini Igors.

[Sumac]

Yeah. It's the same damn game I played in 1992 with a shiny new coat of paint (but I beat 5 out of 5 of the guys I just played online!).
You either don't get hardcore way or you are trolling.

And Castlevania in 3D isn't wholly different from my argument about 3D fighters vs. 2D fighters. Konami was going the right direction with the N64 games, and probably the same with Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness. I can't comment on the "reboot" games because I've never played. But I think with enough finesse, it's completely possible to do a "Castletroid" game like Symphony in a fully 3D engine.
CV64 were pretty good, at least when it comes to atmosphere and platforming, though neither were "Castleroids".

Lament and COD were just bad beat'em ups, who tried to be "Castleroids" and failed miserably. The only things that were good about Lament were cheesy voice acting, boss battles and a soundtrack.

[Andrew NDB]

All I can say is that while Lament of Innocence held my interest to the end... Curse of Darkness I got maybe 2 or so hours into it then completely lost interest.

But kind of like SF and MK... that they didn't quite perfect the foray from 2D into 3D (though again Mr. Sumac, I'd direct you to give MK vs. DCU an honest shake and come back to the debate -- though I still stand by my basic stance on Akuma in T7 as proof positive that 3D can be worked in painlessly and without changing anything drastic.)

[Sumac]

All I can say is that while Lament of Innocence held my interest to the end...
I've completed LOI, but only out of interest to the story and boss battles.

I know that the game kinda treats itself like a Castleroid, but I treated it like a beat'em up and flew through it without bothering with optional paths, though I've killed all secret bosses.

[Andrew NDB]

I've completed LOI, but only out of interest to the story and boss battles.

I know that the game kinda treats itself like a Castleroid, but I treated it like a beat'em up and flew through it without bothering with optional paths, though I've killed all secret bosses.

Yeah. Smash smash smash the same two buttons and so on. And yes, the story was my main interest. And I liked the little upgrades they give to make the whipping more fun along the way.

I just think the best Castlevania way to go would be something between your average Resident Evil and Symphony of the Night. Going through Castlevania itself, level by level, open roam with a lot of long winding staircases and secrets. And maybe let you explore around the castle, too. It's really shocking there isn't like a brand new cutting edge Castlevania game every 2 or 3 years. What happened? Did they try to go "too big" with the reboot games with Patrick Stewart and all, then failed? Castlevania seemed like an evergreen property and Konami just seems to have abandoned it. Yeah, maybe they do a cheap portable game every random moon... but this was a juggernaut.

A few more into the new season now. It's not quite as annoying as the last season. I'm mostly on board with it. The people involved are clearly more interested in characterizations than pushing a broader saga forward (though that's not at all what they told us at the beginning), but maybe that's fine for something like this. And it looks like Death is finally going to show up... though maybe in nerfed form. Not an elemental force, but just some random evil guy? Eh.

[Leo656]

I own both "Lords of Shadow" games, but haven't played them yet, only read about them.

Apparently the first was a big hit, but they lost the audience with the decision to have much of the sequel take place in a more contemporary, modern-day setting. It seems that most people thought that the gameplay was improved over the first, but the setting and storyline ruined it for them. And so while the first game sold well and was nearly unanimously-praised, the sequel got mixed reviews and sold less. And this all happened right around the time that Konami was more or less just giving up on making games, period, so since it under-performed they just decided that it wasn't worth making any more.

So, it seems like a bit of a mix of "players weren't wholly satisfied with the sequel's direction" along with "Anything that doesn't sell 10 million copies isn't worth the effort for modern-day Konami". Thus, the stalling-out of the franchise entirely.

Having not played either game yet, I can't speak from experience. But I'm personally less enthusiastic about playing a Castlevania game in a "modern" or "contemporary" setting. So I kind of get the complaints. It just feels like something that needs to be more Gothic and "dated", like just set A Long Time Ago rather than Right Now or in the future. I'unno.

[Sumac]

I just think the best Castlevania way to go would be something between your average Resident Evil and Symphony of the Night. Going through Castlevania itself, level by level, open roam with a lot of long winding staircases and secrets. And maybe let you explore around the castle, too. It's really shocking there isn't like a brand new cutting edge Castlevania game every 2 or 3 years. What happened? Did they try to go "too big" with the reboot games with Patrick Stewart and all, then failed? Castlevania seemed like an evergreen property and Konami just seems to have abandoned it. Yeah, maybe they do a cheap portable game every random moon... but this was a juggernaut.
Konami attempted to turn Castlevania into big 3D, but every time they efforts were for naught: CV64 was rushed and made by an inexperienced team, so developers were allowed to make a "better" version of it, Legacy of Darkness. Both games failed to become "superhits" forcing Konami to make 2D Castlevanias.

Just a year later Castlevania Resurrection for Dreamcast was canceled, supposedly, due to the conflict between Konami Japan and Konami USA.

Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness were made on a shoestring budget and failed to garner interest.

Symphony of the Night 2 was canceled, most likely, because, Konami didn't see how Igarashi (producer of the series) could make a good 3D game, he made LOI and COD after all and his 2D games were no longer profitable. Though Konami put out teaser for it and a Radio spectacle which was supposed to bridge SOTN1 and SOTN2, they've canceled the game and started seek for someone else to make it, which led to...

...LOS1 which was the best selling in the series and LOS2 which was messed up by EGO of the producer, who thought he knows better than designers and writers how the game should look and what story should be, so, as Leo said, it ended up as a failure.

And so we arrived today, where there is no 3D or any other Castlevanias for that matter.

[IMJ]

I own both "Lords of Shadow" games, but haven't played them yet, only read about them.

Apparently the first was a big hit, but they lost the audience with the decision to have much of the sequel take place in a more contemporary, modern-day setting. It seems that most people thought that the gameplay was improved over the first, but the setting and storyline ruined it for them. And so while the first game sold well and was nearly unanimously-praised, the sequel got mixed reviews and sold less. And this all happened right around the time that Konami was more or less just giving up on making games, period, so since it under-performed they just decided that it wasn't worth making any more.

So, it seems like a bit of a mix of "players weren't wholly satisfied with the sequel's direction" along with "Anything that doesn't sell 10 million copies isn't worth the effort for modern-day Konami". Thus, the stalling-out of the franchise entirely.

Having not played either game yet, I can't speak from experience. But I'm personally less enthusiastic about playing a Castlevania game in a "modern" or "contemporary" setting. So I kind of get the complaints. It just feels like something that needs to be more Gothic and "dated", like just set A Long Time Ago rather than Right Now or in the future. I'unno.


That first Lords of Shadow game was one of the best games I've ever played.

[Andrew NDB]

Konami attempted to turn Castlevania into big 3D, but every time they efforts were for naught: CV64 was rushed and made by an inexperienced team, so developers were allowed to make a "better" version of it, Legacy of Darkness. Both games failed to become "superhits" forcing Konami to make 2D Castlevanias.

True. Though the reasons they were not superhits were because they did not deserve to be superhits. Though they weren't going in the wrong direction.

And I don't think Konami always coming out with new 2D Castletroid stuff on the handhelds has anything to do with the 3D ones "failing" on the main consoles. They always would have done more 2D Castletroid stuff because they're affordable to make and easy to crank out.

Just a year later Castlevania Resurrection for Dreamcast was canceled, supposedly, due to the conflict between Konami Japan and Konami USA.

It was going to be a disaster. I remember writing about it on my old Castlevania website. It was going to be a big time traveling thing with Sonia Belmont (from Castlevania Legends on Gameboy that was already removed from canon) and others. A few things leaked from it.

Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness were made on a shoestring budget

Do you think? Lament of Innocence looked expensive to me, at least at the time. Curse of Darkness, not bad either. Engine and presentation-wise.

Symphony of the Night 2 was canceled, most likely, because, Konami didn't see how Igarashi (producer of the series) could make a good 3D game, he made LOI and COD after all and his 2D games were no longer profitable. Though Konami put out teaser for it and a Radio spectacle which was supposed to bridge SOTN1 and SOTN2, they've canceled the game and started seek for someone else to make it, which led to...

I don't even remember a Symphony of the Night 2 ever being announced.

...LOS1 which was the best selling in the series and LOS2 which was messed up by EGO of the producer, who thought he knows better than designers and writers how the game should look and what story should be, so, as Leo said, it ended up as a failure.

It just struck me when they revealed LOS1 was a reboot. The up until then relatively faithful adherence to a timeline, a growing saga was -- I think -- one of the big boons to Castlevania fans. Now just throw it out the window? Not enhance it instead, or just play in an unexplored corner of it? Stupid. Needless.

[Leo656]

That first Lords of Shadow game was one of the best games I've ever played.

I've heard nothing but great things. I think I still need to purchase some DLC before I actually play it, though. I forget why I didn't get around to it yet but I think that's one of the reasons.



It just struck me when they revealed LOS1 was a reboot. The up until then relatively faithful adherence to a timeline, a growing saga was -- I think -- one of the big boons to Castlevania fans. Now just throw it out the window? Not enhance it instead, or just play in an unexplored corner of it? Stupid. Needless.

I kind of get that, but I also get their reasoning. "We want to make this a big 'coming-out party' for the franchise, the first 'real' games in the series in a long time (read: The first non-handheld Castlevania games in about a decade or so). We want to attract the largest potential audience possible."

It would be kind of silly of them to insist that Xbox 360 and PS3 gamers, most of whom never even owned an NES or GBA and therefore never played any of the Castlevania games before, have had played the other games in the series. Forcing the storyline of LoS to fit in with a dozen games most of their audience hadn't ever played would have been needlessly limiting.

I'm a stickler for "canon" more often than not. But the fact that LoS ended up being the most financially successful game in the entire franchise kind of proves that they made the right decision. It was designed to be a jumping-on point for people unfamiliar with the franchise, and a lot of people were thrilled that none of the earlier games "counted" because they didn't feel like they were missing anything by jumping straight into that one.

I mean, I haven't played every single game in the series by far, but by that point where they were having some of the handheld games be set in the future and whatnot, one could seriously argue that the original canon had already become rather unwieldy and convoluted.

[Andrew NDB]

It would be kind of silly of them to insist that Xbox 360 and PS3 gamers, most of whom never even owned an NES or GBA and therefore never played any of the Castlevania games before, have had played the other games in the series. Forcing the storyline of LoS to fit in with a dozen games most of their audience hadn't ever played would have been needlessly limiting.

It's very easy. Dracula comes back every 100 years (and after Lament of Innocence, they gave themselves some extra centuries we didn't know they had). Pick a different century. No need to refer to any other Belmonts or anything. Simple.

[Leo656]

By that same logic, if you're not going to even really address the existing canon in any significant way, why NOT just reboot? Especially since LoS is essentially an "origin story" for the entire franchise.

It was probably just simpler to reboot and start everything over from scratch, rather than worry that some fanatics would be all like, "Well, ACTUALLY (adjusts glasses), this Dracula 'origin' story contradicts much of the storyline in the acclaimed GBA Castlevania game 'Orchestra of Dracula's Ballsack: Rondo of Whale Semen', which explains where the saga REALLY started! CLEARLY these people know nothing at all about Castlevania and this game is therefore garbage!"

There's always a FEW of Those People and I assume Konami didn't want to be bothered with all of that.

[Andrew NDB]

It was probably just simpler to reboot and start everything over from scratch, rather than worry that some fanatics would be all like, "Well, ACTUALLY (adjusts glasses), this Dracula 'origin' story contradicts much of the storyline in the acclaimed GBA Castlevania game 'Orchestra of Dracula's Ballsack: Rondo of Whale Semen', which explains where the saga REALLY started! CLEARLY these people know nothing at all about Castlevania and this game is therefore garbage!"

There's very little to worry about. Dracula died here, Dracula died there, Dracula got resurrected here, Dracula got resurrected there. It's not like dodging or navigating land mines or something.

[Leo656]

Yeah, but I think the original timeline already had established a Dracula origin of some sort, somewhere along the way (by all means, someone correct me if I'm wrong). Since they were hellbent on LoS being an origin story and designed it to entice new people to the franchise with no strings attached, their hands were kinda tied.

I mean, the Game Boy, N64 and PS2 games had already splintered the canon into a Castlevania "Multiverse", anyway. LoS being a hard reboot wasn't some kind of mortal sin, I don't think. And again, for whatever else it was the most commercially-successful game, so it's hard to really argue that it was a bad decision. They just went with the thing that was easiest. It worked, so... I'unno.

[Sumac]

True. Though the reasons they were not superhits were because they did not deserve to be superhits. Though they weren't going in the wrong direction.

And I don't think Konami always coming out with new 2D Castletroid stuff on the handhelds has anything to do with the 3D ones "failing" on the main consoles. They always would have done more 2D Castletroid stuff because they're affordable to make and easy to crank out.
No, it is actually what had happened. Even Igarashi said that.

Konami plan was that CV64 will be super popular and the template for all other Castlevania games going forward, and Symphony of the Night was planned to be a "small spin off". But CV64 ended up being not particularly popular, while Symphony ended up being a megahit.

Konami attempted to "fix" CV64 and, later, release another 3D game for Dreamcast, but neither worked.

Konami wanted to completely shut down the series, but Igarashi insisted that he wants to keep the series alive. Konami agreed, but on a condition: he becomes main producer of the series and release Castlevania game every year on whatever budget Konami gives him, which led to "Symphony of the Clones" and some mediocre 3D games. Until their popularity didn't fall off, due to said 3D games and Igarashi attempts to make Castlevania more popular in Japan.

Funny thing, that first post-Symphony clone, Circle of the Moon, was made not by Igarashi, but by guys behind CV64. Igarashi "borrowed" most of the Circle ideas and made his own Harmony of Dissonance.

It was going to be a disaster. I remember writing about it on my old Castlevania website. It was going to be a big time traveling thing with Sonia Belmont (from Castlevania Legends on Gameboy that was already removed from canon) and others. A few things leaked from it.
Until playable version, which exists, will leak, I won't comment on it, but story indeed sounded very...odd. Especially inclusion of the "Female Dracula".

Do you think? Lament of Innocence looked expensive to me, at least at the time. Curse of Darkness, not bad either. Engine and presentation-wise.
Can't be sure about Lament, though copypasted rooms kind of allude to small budget, but COD was definitely made on scraps.

I don't even remember a Symphony of the Night 2 ever being announced.
It was back in 2008 and was quickly swept under the carpet by Konami.

It just struck me when they revealed LOS1 was a reboot. The up until then relatively faithful adherence to a timeline, a growing saga was -- I think -- one of the big boons to Castlevania fans. Now just throw it out the window? Not enhance it instead, or just play in an unexplored corner of it? Stupid. Needless.
Konami thought CV timeline was getting too complex.
I partially agree with them, but at the same time, I loved how most games were part of the bigger narrative.

In many ways it had happened thanks to Igarashi, who introduced a lot of plot points without having any intention to resolve them in the future.

Also, LOS1 was planned to be remake of original Castlevania and original pitch-trailer had Simon Belmont fighting some monster. If I remember right, it was Hideo Kojima of Metal Gear fame, who basically pushed for LOS to be chosen as the next Castlevania game and to be a reboot.

Just to add some more context: after Igarashi was stripped of his influence over Castlevania, Konami held a contest between their US, Japan and European divisions to see, which one will be able to offer the best idea for big budget Castlevania game. Eventually, with Kojima help, EU pitch was chosen.

P.S.
As you can guess, I am not a big fan of Igarashi and his decisions. :lol:

Yeah, but I think the original timeline already had established a Dracula origin of some sort, somewhere along the way (by all means, someone correct me if I'm wrong).
Original timeline did it twice: first in Game Boy Legends and then it was retconned (replaced) by Lament of Innocence, which for all its pitfalls managed to give Dracula more coherent origin, than some "evil wizard".

I mean, the Game Boy, N64 and PS2 games had already splintered the canon into a Castlevania "Multiverse", anyway. LoS being a hard reboot wasn't some kind of mortal sin, I don't think. And again, for whatever else it was the most commercially-successful game, so it's hard to really argue that it was a bad decision. They just went with the thing that was easiest. It worked, so... I'unno.
Legends, CV64, Legacy of Darkness and Circle of the Moon were considered non-canon. Though later "timeline guide" included them in timeline, without mentioning what had happened in those games.

CV64 / LOD was kind of reboot in itself, though, it was mostly because of its troubled development and Circle was initially conceived as spin-off set in Carmilla's castle and not mentioning Belmonts in any capacity.

Also, it might have to do with Igarashi not being involved in development of any of those titles. Just saying.

[Andrew NDB]

Lament of Innocence only replaced Legends because they wanted to do "the very first Belmont" again, only hundreds of years before the 1400s this time. And honestly, Lament is basically a reboot. While it still sort of works with the rest of the games, it makes Dracula not into Dracula anymore, and it's a big "everything you ever thought you know about Castlevania's beginnings is WRONG!"

Finished the show. I liked how they portrayed Death, I liked the "psyche!!!" with you know who (which I figured was coming because you know who is a frequent boss in Curse of Darkness, which is years after this). They aligned everything pretty well back to the games' timeline by the end with the possible exception of Isaac... he literally is refusing to do at the end of this season the thing that was the whole point of Curse of Darkness. The Dracula stuff was bizarre... and seemed way more like weird fetish stuff from the writers or Ellis. I sure don't remember anything about folks wanting to resurrect Dracula's and his wife's souls and combine into a hermaphrodite body with boobs and who knows what else.

[Sumac]

Lament of Innocence only replaced Legends because they wanted to do "the very first Belmont" again, only hundreds of years before the 1400s this time. And honestly, Lament is basically a reboot. While it still sort of works with the rest of the games, it makes Dracula not into Dracula anymore, and it's a big "everything you ever thought you know about Castlevania's beginnings is WRONG!"
To be honest, Legends were very mediocre as a game and as a story and its version of Dracula origin was basically "he always was a bad wizard" and that's it. It is besides the fact that Symphony established that Dracula had a loving wife and went insane after her death. So much for him "always being a bad wizard".
All in all, its removal from a timeline is not a big loss, even though, I like idea of Sonia Belmont.

[Andrew NDB]

To be honest, Legends were very mediocre as a game and as a story and its version of Dracula origin was basically "he always was a bad wizard" and that's it. It is besides the fact that Symphony established that Dracula had a loving wife and went insane after her death. So much for him "always being a bad wizard".
All in all, its removal from a timeline is not a big loss, even though, I like idea of Sonia Belmont.

The undercurrent was always that Dracula was the real life Vlad Tepes Dracula, 1431-1476 (and Symphony seemed to cement that, though the opening crawl of CVIII did enough, Bloodlines too for sure). Lament of Innocence took that away. At best, Dracula is just a fake name Matthias or whatever adopted in the 15th century. That's lame. Making Dracula not be Dracula and just a FAKE Dracula is lame.

[Sumac]

The undercurrent was always that Dracula was the real life Vlad Tepes Dracula, 1431-1476 (and Symphony seemed to cement that, though the opening crawl of CVIII did enough, Bloodlines too for sure). Lament of Innocence took that away. At best, Dracula is just a fake name Matthias or whatever adopted in the 15th century. That's lame. Making Dracula not be Dracula and just a FAKE Dracula is lame.
I can agree with that.
Though I don't it close to heart since this series never was historically accurate.

There was even theory amongst fans at the time, that Mathias died between LOI and CV3 and starting with CV3 it was real a Vlad Tepes.

[sdp]

I had to google to see what the hell was castleroid, why not just call it metroidvania like most normal people?
Castlevania 64, Legends and Circle of the Moon are my favorite games and the only castlevania games I had as a kid and they're all non-canon because who knows why, it's not as if the castlevania history isn't already convoluted as h.ell

[Leo656]

I liked Castlevania 64 just fine. There was that annoying bit with the Nitroglycerine but eh. I can't argue with the people who say it doesn't really "feel" like Castlevania "ought to", but I try not to get hung up on that kind of thing.

I remember when Peanut yelled at me and said the fact that I didn't think that game was trash meant I shouldn't be allowed to talk out loud about video games at all. :lol: What a rube.

I only bought the do-over/"apology" version "Legacy of Darkness" not that long ago, and I haven't played it yet. I'll probably like it, since it's a lot more game than the first.

I remember being very confused when those games got generally great scores when they were released, then they never made any more like that and then for years all I read was people saying they were garbage.

I also thought it was nuts how they both came out within a year, but then I read that LoD was essentially the way the first game was always "supposed to be", more or less, and that made sense. I mean they didn't have DLC back then, gotta do somethin'. Although given how LoD ended up shipping within the same year anyway, I still kinda think they could've/should've just pushed the release date back and just released LoD instead of two games. But then they couldn't have gotten everyone's money twice, I guess.

[Sumac]

I had to google to see what the hell was castleroid, why not just call it metroidvania like most normal people?
To trigger you, m'dear. :lol:

Castlevania 64, Legends and Circle of the Moon are my favorite games and the only castlevania games I had as a kid and they're all non-canon because who knows why, it's not as if the castlevania history isn't already convoluted as h.ell
They were non-canon from the beginning, exactly, because, developers didn't want to built them into pretty convoluted timeline.

I remember when Peanut yelled at me and said the fact that I didn't think that game was trash meant I shouldn't be allowed to talk out loud about video games at all. :lol: What a rube.
LOL.

I only bought the do-over/"apology" version "Legacy of Darkness" not that long ago, and I haven't played it yet. I'll probably like it, since it's a lot more game than the first.
LOD is worse when it comes to atmosphere and a story, but locations were completely remade to take more advantage of the 3D. They also added controllable camera and tightened controls.

But I can't help, but prefer more atmospheric original version. And I am not fan of Cornell character and gameplay.

I remember being very confused when those games got generally great scores when they were released, then they never made any more like that and then for years all I read was people saying they were garbage.

I also thought it was nuts how they both came out within a year, but then I read that LoD was essentially the way the first game was always "supposed to be", more or less, and that made sense. I mean they didn't have DLC back then, gotta do somethin'. Although given how LoD ended up shipping within the same year anyway, I still kinda think they could've/should've just pushed the release date back and just released LoD instead of two games. But then they couldn't have gotten everyone's money twice, I guess.
It was first 3D game of developers and they kind of "bitten more than they could chew", i.e. attempted to make the game more ambitious than their experience and hardware allowed them. Konami deadlines didn't help either.

I am surprised that Konami allowed them to make LOD at all - it was basically admitting that the first game was very bad (not really, IMO), but it seems Konami REALLY wanted a big 3D Castlevania out there. Didn't quite worked out as they planned.

Also, fan fact: originally LOD was to be called Castlevania: Special Edition in the West. Later Konami felt like it will make the first release obsolete, so they renamed it into LOD.

About, whether or not it is closer to what CV64 was supposed to be it is quite questionable: CV64 was mostly completed. Things that were cut are two characters (turned into bosses) and more elaborate storyline system, like ability to choose various options in dialogues, which influenced endings. Also, some bosses were cut (most likely Medusa and Spider Queen), but it seems number of levels and their structure were the same.

[Leo656]

Makes sense.

I do look forward to playing LoD sooner rather than later, since I liked the first one well enough.

I've always been more of a person who admired the franchise from afar rather than an "active participant", but I did buy a bunch of the games in the series over the past year so I can finally get more caught up. As a kid I played the original game sometimes but always died pretty early into Level 2 and never really spent a lot of time with it, until I finally beat it a couple of months ago for the first time. I played (and beat) Super Castlevania IV more than anything else in the series; that one's always been a favorite of mine.

I've had Simon's Quest for a while, but never played it. I think I'm gonna get the "Redacted" version and play that instead.

Oddly, I never got around to playing Symphony of the Night, either, but I promise I will. I'm way behind but I look forward to getting caught up.

[IMJ]

Lament of Innocence I think was the single most underrated Castlevania game ever made. It was basically all of the best of all of the Castlevania's at that time - like a "super Symphony of the Night" in many ways.

Symphony of the Night
Lament of Innocence
Lords of Shadow prt 1

Absolute masterpieces. If I ever get some gaming legs back on and feel like I can be absorbed by that crap again in life, I'd be down for replaying all three of those and the Parasite Eve games. Bang. Awesome.

[Andrew NDB]

I seem to remember CV64 and LOD were not really the same game. LOD was like a prequel, reusing a lot of the same assets.

[sdp]

To trigger you, m'dear. :lol:


They were non-canon from the beginning, exactly, because, developers didn't want to built them into pretty convoluted timeline.

I'm not triggered, just never heard of that term and sounds like steroids, metroidvania is already a stupid term but whatever people it.
They were definitely not non-canon when they came out, only when Iga decided he didn't like them, but he's gone so who cares the timeline is a mess and those games have cool stories better than many "canon" ones.

Anywho, I'm not too invested in castlevania, so I don't care too much. I just find it funny that the 3 games I owned as a kid on different platforms are noncanon.

I seem to remember CV64 and LOD were not really the same game. LOD was like a prequel, reusing a lot of the same assets.

I had C64 but only played LoD once when I rented it so I'm not 100% sure but IIRC LOD is just like an enhanced version a la Super Street Fighter II having more fighters. The Reinhardt/Carrie sections of the game are exactly the same storywise, only with a few things re-arranged. And the werewolf character was indeed a new character with his own story but it was the exact same game, just a different character with a different path on the same game.

[Sumac]

I've had Simon's Quest for a while, but never played it. I think I'm gonna get the "Redacted" version and play that instead.
Original is perfectly fine, I might say. Well, there is a couple of moments, which can be confusing, but otherwise it is not THAT bad.

If you need any advice you can hit me in PM.

Oddly, I never got around to playing Symphony of the Night, either, but I promise I will. I'm way behind but I look forward to getting caught up.
It is not a bad game, just very very braindead easy. Nothing like any earlier Castlevanias.

There are three versions of it: on PlayStation 1, on Sega Saturn and PlayStation Portable. AFAIK, most available version is from PS1.

Sega Saturn version has additional areas and additional playable character, also it makes second half of the game a bit more palatable. But it is harder to emulate and has no English version.

PSP version has additional character and a new dub.

Lament of Innocence I think was the single most underrated Castlevania game ever made. It was basically all of the best of all of the Castlevania's at that time - like a "super Symphony of the Night" in many ways.

Symphony of the Night
Lament of Innocence
Lords of Shadow prt 1

Absolute masterpieces. If I ever get some gaming legs back on and feel like I can be absorbed by that crap again in life, I'd be down for replaying all three of those and the Parasite Eve games. Bang. Awesome.
Ironically, I am not fan of either.
LOI is very mediocre game, IMO, and Symphony is not my cup of tea.

I seem to remember CV64 and LOD were not really the same game. LOD was like a prequel, reusing a lot of the same assets.
It is both: main story featuring Cornell is a prequel and after you complete it, you unlock stories for Reinhardt and Carrie from CV64. Storywise they are identical to the CV64, but they use updated version of levels from LOD.

I'm not triggered, just never heard of that term and sounds like steroids, metroidvania is already a stupid term but whatever people it.
Completely agree, which is why I prefer term "Metroidlike".

They were definitely not non-canon when they came out, only when Iga decided he didn't like them, but he's gone so who cares the timeline is a mess and those games have cool stories better than many "canon" ones.
It is hard to say now: CV64 originally WAS supposed to be part of the timeline, but after all development troubles it is hard to say where it goes, especially, since it doesn't feature Belmonts.

Circle was always intended to be a spin-off.

[Leo656]

I actually have a very detailed guide for Simon's Quest from one of those Rusel DeMaria books that came out back in the late-80s/early-90s. I think I'd just have more fun with the version of the game where the hints actually make sense and the townsfolk aren't lying scumbags. :lol: We'll see what happens.

I've got Symphony on the Konami Classics Collection on Xbox 360. If it's "easy", that's fine; I'm an old cranky bastard with other sh*t to do, I can't spend a hundred years on anything that doesn't have "Elder Scrolls" in the title, anymore. :lol:

I've also got all the Game Boy and GBA games but I haven't played any of them, yet.

[Sumac]

I actually have a very detailed guide for Simon's Quest from one of those Rusel DeMaria books that came out back in the late-80s/early-90s. I think I'd just have more fun with the version of the game where the hints actually make sense and the townsfolk aren't lying scumbags. :lol: We'll see what happens.
My guide was a thin book, which got most of its secrets stolen from game magazines and some of them were wrong to boot. :D

I've got Symphony on the Konami Classics Collection on Xbox 360. If it's "easy", that's fine; I'm an old cranky bastard with other sh*t to do, I can't spend a hundred years on anything that doesn't have "Elder Scrolls" in the title, anymore. :lol:
Most likely it is PS1 version than.
Beautiful game, but can become very boring by the second half.

I've also got all the Game Boy and GBA games but I haven't played any of them, yet.
They are mixed bag:

Short reviews - all opinions are mine:

Castlevania The Adventure is a horrible game, one of the worst in the series. Its main problem that it runs like ****: there is a constant slowdown and controls are barely responsive. Music is decent though.

Castlevania 2: Belmont's Revenge is very good and fixes all problems from the past entry. Must play.

Castlevania Legends is mediocre - it is worse than Belmont's Revenge, when it comes to controls and level design and music is so-so.

Circle of the Moon is one of my favorites - perfect controls, good subsystem, decent difficulty. A bit too much copypasted stairways and corridors, but that's a not a big problem. Soundtrack is pretty good, even, if it sounds like its played by pre-historic gramophone and most tracks are reused from past entries.

Harmony of Dissonance is :sick:
Ugly design, floaty controls, horrible horrible HORRIBLE music.

Aria of Sorrow - good game, interesting locations, good subsystem, decent soundtrack. Story has barely anything to do with Castlevania, though.

DS can be perfectly emulated, so you can play its trilogy too.

[Andrew NDB]

Did anyone else ever read the old Scholastic "Castlevania II: Simon's Quest" novel? I think under the "worlds of power" banner? I did. I still keep up with the author of it, too.

Aria of Sorrow, wasn't that the one where Dracula resurrects in the modern day? Guest-starring Alucard? I got pretty far into it but eventually lost interest. It's not a bad concept.

[Sumac]

Aria of Sorrow, wasn't that the one where Dracula resurrects in the modern day? Guest-starring Alucard? I got pretty far into it but eventually lost interest. It's not a bad concept.
It is very anime. Dracula being resurrected in the body of a Japanese schoolboy is...eh. Especially after previous entries.

AOS, and its sequel Dawn of Sorrow, are good games, but barely Castlevanias, IMO.

[NinjaPug]

Netflix announced a spin-off series today:

The series follows Richter Belmont (the son of Sypha and Trevor) and Maria Renard, set in France during the French Revolution

[Andrew NDB]

Netflix announced a spin-off series today:

Oh good. But this means skipping Simon and such... which I kind of figured they'd do.

[Sumac]

Oh good. But this means skipping Simon and such... which I kind of figured they'd do.
Simon is too manly for those soyboys.
No opportunity for him to be ****ed in the ass.

Also, why are they calling it spin-off, when its just another part of the series?

Dracula X was a spin-off at some point, but I don't think it is relevant now.

[Andrew NDB]

Simon is too manly for those soyboys.
No opportunity for him to be ****ed in the ass.

I don't think Richter is in much jeopardy of that... but definitely Alucard's presence helps that cause.

So who is the new showrunner?

Also, why are they calling it spin-off, when its just another part of the series?

Dracula X was a spin-off at some point, but I don't think it is relevant now.

Yeah, that's dumb. It's not a spinoff, it's them doing exactly what they said they were going to do in subsequent seasons right after they finished season 1.

[Andrew NDB]

It's coming back as Castlevania: Nocturne. With Richter.

https://www.gamespot.com/articles/netflix-announces-new-castlevania-animated-show-castlevania-nocturne/1100-6504429/?fbclid=IwAR0q8kMcya0659A4Wzf5nUkA4oU94H7S02bXhw3z 5l1CO2Xamda3nqEzc7M

ONqNEPTPyqU

I'm glad they're moving forward but it also seems weird they spent two seasons building up to "Curse of Darkness" only to skip way, way over it.

[Sumac]

I'm glad they're moving forward but it also seems weird they spent two seasons building up to "Curse of Darkness" only to skip way, way over it.
I haven't watched the series, since the whole thing smelled of "my precious OGs do not TOUCH" + "strong independent Lesbian vampires who don't need no men", but from I understood, they butchered final seasons and made the whole thing about those OGs, giving the story entirely different resolution than in canon.

Also, who's gonna be raped in the new series? :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

So "Nocturne" (season 1?) is out on Netflix now. I skimmed the episodes and it looks like neither Dracula or Alucard show up at all in this. Just more female vampires like the last few seasons, that's it.

I don't think I'm going to bother with this. It isn't Castlevania.

[Sumac]

So "Nocturne" (season 1?) is out on Netflix now. I skimmed the episodes and it looks like neither Dracula or Alucard show up at all in this. Just more female vampires like the last few seasons, that's it.

I don't think I'm going to bother with this. It isn't Castlevania.
Since its kinda sorta adaptation of Rondo, Alucard shouldn't show up.
As for the rest...as expected.

[Andrew NDB]

Since its kinda sorta adaptation of Rondo, Alucard shouldn't show up.

True. But they could've at least at the end, in like a lead-up to a Symphony of the Night semi-adaption which could be gold. Because where else are you going from a Richter Belmont series that is a Dracula X pseudo remake than Symphony? Which is like the biggest Castlevania hit of all time? But that is just a side thing. You have to have Dracula. Period.

As for the rest...as expected.

I don't f***ing understand. I don't get it. Castlevania = at minimum, Dracula (and they tried to recreate him as a hermaphrodite in the last season). Period. Yes, we have Medusa heads, and skeletons, and mummies, and Grim Reaper if we're lucky, but at minimum Dracula. In every game. But here we are, just more randomly created from the ether female vampires. That's all we're doing here, again.

[Sumac]

Personally I always supported point of view, that not every Castlevania story should have Dracula in it.

Like in case of some IGA-era stories, like Portrait of Ruin or Harmony of Dissonance or Order of Ecclesia, Dracula felt shoehorned without much of a plot behind it, just, because "Castlevania story should have Dracula", which made stories look sloppy and stupid. He is like "space flea from nowhere" in those stories.

So absence of Dracula by itself is not a problem. Now, since its an adaptation of the story where Dracula was playing a prominent role, his absence is puzzling.

[CyberCubed]

Alucard literally shows up in the season finale at the very end, this is why you don't skim episodes.

[Andrew NDB]

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Season 2 hits in January. So looks like... back to more lesbian vampires, new black supporting cast that don't exist in the games, and again no Dracula.

[Andrew NDB]

lol... I had no idea the black girl in this was a race-swapped Annette from the actual Dracula X game. And I guess she spends much of the show talking about "White = bad!" Wowzers.

Well it's been a couple of years now and no word on any more of this... thing. So I guess that's the end of this horrible show. A show about a game that's about fighting Dracula... with no Dracula, only lesbian vampires, other miscellaneous gay stuff and social commentary on white people.