Sea turtles eating plastics

[Andrew NDB]

https://weather.com/science/environment/video/scientists-say-plastic-trash-in-ocean-smells-like-food-to-sea-turtles

Not to be an ass, but if sea turtles are actively going around eating up plastics now all on their own... maybe we should just let natural selection just do its thing?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Nah, I'd say that we should avoid littering in the first place.

It's not like they are actively intruding human habitation for plastic.

[IMJ]

The oceans need a sincerely global cleanup effort. That sort of snakey, floating garbage collector thing that a private company has employed is pretty awesome.

Given some of the other microbes that have evolved from our trash habits, I'm surprised that one hasn't evolved in the ocean to eat that plastic too. But yeah we really need to clean that **** up.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, humans need to do a better job, it's not the fault of dumb animals if they don't understand that trash that looks or smells like food to them is not actually food. No more than a dumb dog didn't know that that big chocolate cake wasn't meant for him or that it's bad for him.


But they did discover microbes that break down plastic in the ocean..? It's just unfortunate that they can't do it faster, but tiny critters can only do so much, I guess. (Now if they'd be able to live in sea turtle guts...)

[Cure]

https://weather.com/science/environment/video/scientists-say-plastic-trash-in-ocean-smells-like-food-to-sea-turtles

Not to be an ass, but if sea turtles are actively going around eating up plastics now all on their own... maybe we should just let natural selection just do its thing?

It's literally, by definition, not natural selection if something unnatural is killing them.

[IMJ]

It's literally, by definition, not natural selection if something unnatural is killing them.

You know there is some mouth breather here that will argue some technicality where they found a single natural occurrence of a plastic molecule or some nonsense in a lava vent somewhere.......

:lol:

[triplexxx]

Well, efforts can be increased to burn plastic for energy. Granted that plastic does emit some greenhouse gases when incinerated and as an energy source isn't too efficient, but if the burnoff can be recaptured, it could help. Burying it doesn't decrease the amount of space it takes on the planet and could contaminate the ground/soil, so burning seems the lesser evil.

Can you imagine if they resorted to what was done in Slash - The Evil Turtle From Dimension X, use rockets to shoot the garbage into space, maybe toward the sun, let that incinerate it and potentially shoot the energy back to Earth, maybe even prolong the sun's life a tad. Of course would cost a fortune, emit a lot of burned fuel, decrease available matter on the planet for potential use (since matter only changes form, never gets used, as long as it remains on Earth), and could potentially have the opposite effect on Sun's life.

[oldmanwinters]

EgUn_ewgF58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgUn_ewgF58

[neatoman]

EgUn_ewgF58
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EgUn_ewgF58

Sure is Steve Murphy in here.

[sdp]

Don't be a dumbass Andrew

[Andrew NDB]

Hey, I love sea turtles. But if all of a sudden, say, Guinea pigs started having an unnatural draw toward putting their little hands in electrical sockets, all over the world... I don't know.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Hey, I love sea turtles. But if all of a sudden, say, Guinea pigs started having an unnatural draw toward putting their little hands in electrical sockets, all over the world... I don't know.

I get what you're trying to say, but Guinea Pigs generally won't come across electrical sockets in the wild, nor are they supposed to.

So regardless of whether sea turtles love eating plastic or not, it shouldn't even be in their habitat in the first place.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

They are not eating it intentionally. There is so much of it in the oceans that literally 90% of all sea life has accidentally swallowed some, and since it can't be digested, it stays in their bodies and accumulates. Plastics have been found in whales, fish, and even in crustaceans as well. We are quite literally killing our ocean life with garbage they can't digest and which causes internal damage. Most of them can't even pass it in waste, because it clogs up intestinal tracts and kills them that way. It's not just sea turtles, it is EVERYTHING. Dying horribly by slow toxic buildup from plastic.

[Voltron]

It's literally, by definition, not natural selection if something unnatural is killing them.

Get yur book learnin' outta here! :x

[IndigoErth]

Hey, I love sea turtles. But if all of a sudden, say, Guinea pigs started having an unnatural draw toward putting their little hands in electrical sockets, all over the world... I don't know.
Part of South America also eats them, so it might be hard to get all countries to not see it as a bad thing as some might consider it a quicker cooking method that the guinea pigs chose on their own.

Still they, they don't understand human technology and not their fault that they don't.

[Voltron]

Hey, I love sea turtles. But if all of a sudden, say, Guinea pigs started having an unnatural draw toward putting their little hands in electrical sockets, all over the world... I don't know.

Again, you're misinterpreting what natural selection is.

An inability to distinguish between right and wrong does not automatically make something OK. That's why there's safety standards. That's why there's warning signs.

If your kid died because of someone else's negligence, you probably wouldn't be so cavalier.

If you went swimming in the ocean and got jabbed by a hypodermic needle, you'd understandably be a little upset.

And you'd be even more upset if everyone else played it down or blamed you for your inability to judge safe situations.

It's not like sea turtles have an option to not swim in the ocean. They can't just pull up and move to a new local. That's where have to live. If we're dumping stuff in there, we can't expect them not to interact with it in some way.

Hence, this isn't natural selection. Having a dangerous, potentially lethal alien object deliberately placed in your environment is closer to our definition of man slaughter.

[Andrew NDB]

I misspoke on natural selection, but you probably take my meaning. Nature is nothing but not evolutionary. Some funguses have evolved to eat plastics, certain animals have evolved to be naturally wary (or fond, conversely) of humans, etc., etc.. Plastics have been around and in the ocean for a long time... but when you have a species scarfing them down like their favorite meal... eh, what is the takeaway from that? Cut down on ocean pollution and plastics, of course and we should, but the plastics in it is never going to be "good." Maybe we can slow the increase, but not stop it or even reverse it. Coastal populations are spiraling everywhere and plastics are only going to be on the rise.

Just... c'mon, sea turtles... stop eating plastics. Eh, maybe we can as united nations add something to plastics to make them taste "different"?

[Candy Kappa]

It's not the plastic itself, but the algae and microbes that grow on the plastic in the ocean making it indistinguishable to food. And it's not just sea turtles but also a seabird problem.

[IMJ]

It's not the plastic itself, but the algae and microbes that grow on the plastic in the ocean making it indistinguishable to food. And it's not just sea turtles but also a seabird problem.

https://i.imgur.com/V6H5M5zm.jpg

[MsMarvelDuckie]

I misspoke on natural selection, but you probably take my meaning. Nature is nothing but not evolutionary. Some funguses have evolved to eat plastics, certain animals have evolved to be naturally wary (or fond, conversely) of humans, etc., etc.. Plastics have been around and in the ocean for a long time... but when you have a species scarfing them down like their favorite meal... eh, what is the takeaway from that? Cut down on ocean pollution and plastics, of course and we should, but the plastics in it is never going to be "good." Maybe we can slow the increase, but not stop it or even reverse it. Coastal populations are spiraling everywhere and plastics are only going to be on the rise.

Just... c'mon, sea turtles... stop eating plastics. Eh, maybe we can as united nations add something to plastics to make them taste "different"?


Again, they are not eating it ON PURPOSE. They end up mistaking items like bits of fishing nets, bags, straws, and other debris for their actual foods. And it's not JUST turtles. As I mentioned earlier, scientists have taken samples that show that virtually EVERY ANIMAL in the oceans has ingested some plastic material. Some of them, like whales, scoop in in along with the shrimp and krill they eat. And then it ends up killing them. They literally can't NOT swallow itThe stuff is EVERYWHERE!! Even at the bottom of the Mariana Trench, or in various "blue holes" around the world. That's right, we're turning the entire ocean into our garbage dump, and the sea life is paying the price with their lives.

[Voltron]

I misspoke on natural selection, but you probably take my meaning. Nature is nothing but not evolutionary. Some funguses have evolved to eat plastics, certain animals have evolved to be naturally wary (or fond, conversely) of humans, etc., etc..

Granted, but you're way off on your premise. Humanity subverts nature a lot. We're pretty good at creating things that don't spontaneously form in great quantities. Plastics is one of them.

Plastics have been around and in the ocean for a long time...

It's been around for a little less than 200 years (https://www.sciencehistory.org/the-history-and-future-of-plastics). That's not enough time for an evolutionary response in a complex organism. Fungus? Microbes? Sure. Sea turtles? Unlikely.

but when you have a species scarfing them down like their favorite meal... eh, what is the takeaway from that? Cut down on ocean pollution and plastics, of course and we should, but the plastics in it is never going to be "good." Maybe we can slow the increase, but not stop it or even reverse it. Coastal populations are spiraling everywhere and plastics are only going to be on the rise.

I'm going to stop you here and give you another chance to back track, because this is one of those arguments that may come back and bite you.

Saying sea turtles are stupid for eating plastic is really oversimplifying the matter. The plastic isn't something they'd be accustomed to right out the gate. They may learn it's dangerous over time, but that may take generations.

On the flip side, we're guilty of the same thing. It could so happen that one day you or someone you love accidentally ingests something later found to be detrimental to their health, God forbid lethal.

If that's the case, the argument you've made is relevant. You've consumed something unaware and possibly assured that it posed no threat. I'd say the consequences aren't with you, but with whoever failed to properly test product or substance.

That's how it goes with sea turtles. Humanity made a giant mess. It's our responsibility. Regardless of how you feel about environmental issues, there's no denying that we put it there. Since it wouldn't be there without us, it stands to reason that we are at least indirectly responsible for the fates of the sea turtles.

Just... c'mon, sea turtles... stop eating plastics. Eh, maybe we can as united nations add something to plastics to make them taste "different"?

I can assure you that, were this an option, the US would never go for it. We shot down a UN resolution that would make it so buildings had to be handicapped accessible. If we aren't helping cripples, we aren't helping sea turtles, either.

In fact, it's one of the things I praise Trump for. He pulled us out of the TPP, which would have ceded our national sovereignty to international corporations. Really glad Obama didn't get his way on that one.

[Leo656]

This reminds me of the time when George Carlin was musing about how possibly the planet Earth only created human beings because it wanted for there to be plastic and simply didn't know how to produce it naturally, so it forced us to evolve so we could create it. :lol:

This was in the midst of a much broader point he was making about how in the big picture, "the planet" is going to be fine no matter what happens to us or any other species which comes and goes, as all species do and will, be it naturally or otherwise. But it was an amusing side rant, and this made me think of it.

[IndigoErth]

On the flip side, we're guilty of the same thing. It could so happen that one day you or someone you love accidentally ingests something later found to be detrimental to their health, God forbid lethal.

If that's the case, the argument you've made is relevant. You've consumed something unaware and possibly assured that it posed no threat. I'd say the consequences aren't with you, but with whoever failed to properly test product or substance.

Case in point, these so-called "forever chemicals" (https://www.nbcnews.com/health/cancer/how-dupont-may-avoid-paying-clean-toxic-forever-chemical-n1138766) that don't really break down in the body and pretty much everyone has it in their blood stream after being exposed to them for decades and told all that time that the products that have them are fine. And like those sea turtles, we weren't really aware that it was bad, and still we'll probably just keep on exposing ourselves to it and partly because there is just so much of it.