Final Fantasy VII Remake

[Andrew NDB]

Spent a few hours trying out the Final Fantasy VII Remake on PS4. It's got pretty graphics but it encapsulates everything I dislike about FF since X. Everything is just going from one end of one corridor to the next (with only the illusion of exploration), from one FMV sequence to the next. In fact, in some places if you try and walk down a different corridor than it wants you to, the game literally has a "warning" beacon and it forces you to walk the other way. Maybe things open up later, but I doubt it.

Admittedly, I enjoy the battle system more than I expected to. Though it's just more of the FF XV system. You can get through most of it by just mashing the square button.

[Candy Kappa]

The Midgar section of FFVII was pretty "railroady" to begin with. The feeling of open world didn't happen until you hit the world map.

I'm just 5 hours in, as playing video games is still really taxing. But I'm having a blast

[Andrew NDB]

The Midgar section of FFVII was pretty "railroady" to begin with.

Not this badly, or to this degree. I played a little further and when you're able to access the shops it appears to get a bit better... though again, only the illusion of roamability. Like, I take a random turn into an alley and there's no one to talk to, no chests or anything... just some cats.

[frank_one]

So what? Don't you love cats? :D

[AquaParade]

I agree so far. I enjoyed the game and world of FF7 as a child and even enjoyed parts of FF15, but despite how much I love the style and visuals of this game, I've been pretty bored throughout my play session today.

I feel like I'm going through the motions and have a total lack of agency. The combat is engaging, the graphics are gorgeous, the story is even quite well done for the genre....but something is leaving me empty. Maybe it will find its groove later on. Or maybe I've grown to used to the freedom of a typical western-rpg.

[Voltron]

I'm so jealous that you guys are getting to play this. I wish I had time. . .

I heard this was being released in chapters. How's that working out?

[Cure]

I'm so jealous that you guys are getting to play this. I wish I had time. . .

I heard this was being released in chapters. How's that working out?

This first part is only up to Midgar. No one knows anything about when the second part is coming, however. It's Square so I'm assuming it'll be another 10 years.

[Voltron]

Oh. It's got a Shen Mue thing going? So I should save my money and wait until I'm 70 when the anthology collection comes out. Got it.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, it ends with the end of leaving Midgar I guess... so we only get the first 5% of the actual game, and it took them 10 years to do so. And they're not even working on part 2 yet, they're waiting to see if this part 1 is profitable.

I really loathe modern day Square Enix. Just doubling down on continually the wrong things. They don't need to spend all of this time and money on making VII feel even more like a damn movie... just upgrade the engine, redo the FMV and maybe add 2 islands. That's enough. It should take 2 years maximum to make, and if it takes even a week longer, that means they're worried about the wrong things.

I think with FF XV failing (good, it was a BAD game for the same reasons with a dumb suicidal ending) they have left the FF business and are now in the FF VII business, long term. Because everybody loves FF VII, right?

[Leo656]

How odd. My one friend who's a huge FF7 purist who hates everything BUT the actual FF7 game gave this a spin and he loved it, despite hating newer FF stuff in general and having lots of doubts about this project until he actually played it. Weird. I don't have a PS4 so I won't be able to play it until who knows when, anyway, but his endorsement sat pretty strong with me.

I do share the trepidation about the business model regarding this, though. I've been making the same jokes for a couple of years now. Kinda think they're over-reaching just a bit. Guess we'll see.

As for them now only being in the "FF7" business, well... yeah, that's disappointing, but what are they supposed to do? "Final Fantasy" as a brand was only ever super popular in America thanks to that one game. The rest all had various degrees of success, and a lot of them were "better" games, sure, but... well, 7 is the one everyone talks about, and for better or worse is what the "brand" is represented by to most people. Not 8. Certainly not 9, which nobody even talks about or remembers.

I mean, I get it. But when you've done ten FF games since FF7 and most of them have only had mediocre success, some of them failed badly, and none of them left much of a mark on pop culture at all... and when business is down across the board, nobody's buying a ton of games BUT they just keep getting more and more expensive to produce, well... what are they supposed to do? It's basically "milk FF7" or "give up and go out of business." Because they can't well take another 10 years and millions of dollars to underwhelm everyone like they did with XV, that's lunacy.

I'unno. We'll see. I like FF7, so I'm looking forward to finally playing this. Hopefully it'll get finished. Most people I know are pretty happy with it so far.

[Andrew NDB]

How odd. My one friend who's a huge FF7 purist who hates everything BUT the actual FF7 game gave this a spin and he loved it, despite hating newer FF stuff in general and having lots of doubts about this project until he actually played it. Weird. I don't have a PS4 so I won't be able to play it until who knows when, anyway, but his endorsement sat pretty strong with me.

Well... everyone is really needing a "win" these days, aren't they? *sigh*

Though he's not wrong. I mean, if you're a dude that just wants to get swept up into a semi-interactive movie where you occasionally have to press the square button... you'll love this.

I played FF I-VI. I was even the guy excited as hell when FF II, III, and V became available on translated ROM/emulation as a teenager and was all over that like the rapture. Those were great f***ing RPGs. They KNOW how to make great RPGs, but they're just so in love with making these weird emo/J-Pop movie games since around FF X that they can't see the forest for the trees as to why this keeps failing.

As for them now only being in the "FF7" business, well... yeah, that's disappointing, but what are they supposed to do?

Break down their whole business model. Start anew. Look at what worked eons ago, and focus on that. If they want to assign a separate dedicated team to work on adapting FF VII for the remake for the next 40 years, that's fine, too. Everybody wins. Also, put out a real Dragon Quest game faster than every 6 years. And how the f*** about Chrono Trigger 3? The game everybody wants, yet they're not even talking about it.

[Sumac]

Watching playthrough of the FF7R - the game fully embraces "interactive movie" thing started by Metal Gear.

On the other hand, I don't see much difference between TBS JRPG and RTS movie, so...at least it looks pretty and production quality on the voice acting, locations and cutscenes are through the roof. Attention to details is wonderful too.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh, production quality is there in spades. And the voice acting is fantastic. The Cloud and Barret banter admittedly had me chuckling.

I'd just... like to actually feel like I was in control of the game. I don't get that so far in this. Just sort of along for the ride, as is.

[Sumac]

Yeah, but that's what people wanted, I guess.
More character interaction, more memorable moments. And since it was a JRPG, the only thing was to make it an interactive movie or a visual novel.

Or just add a lot of unnecessary padding to the gameplay. Neither solution is good, in my opinion.

[AquaParade]

Oh, production quality is there in spades. And the voice acting is fantastic. The Cloud and Barret banter admittedly had me chuckling.

I'd just... like to actually feel like I was in control of the game. I don't get that so far in this. Just sort of along for the ride, as is.

The worst part is that so much of the interactivity is a chore. They constantly slow your walking down to a crawl or literal “squeeze” through two objects in order to mask loading. More so than any game I’ve ever played. Holding down a button to walk slowly and listen to a conversation is a straight up chore when it’s done this much. Just give me a cutscene and let me eat my chips with two hands, ****.

I can be won over by presentation and even a game that takes the steering wheel sometimes. What I don’t like is constantly pressing buttons to do menial tasks.

For all the things I love about this game, listed in my post above, I think I’m beginning to hate it. If the second half doesn’t turn around hard, I’ll definitely consider it a wasted purchase. Right now - and I hate to say it - but I’m befuddled by the reviews this is getting, despite the power of nostalgia.

[Leo656]

Break down their whole business model. Start anew. Look at what worked eons ago, and focus on that. If they want to assign a separate dedicated team to work on adapting FF VII for the remake for the next 40 years, that's fine, too. Everybody wins. Also, put out a real Dragon Quest game faster than every 6 years. And how the f*** about Chrono Trigger 3? The game everybody wants, yet they're not even talking about it.

...Y e a h, that sounds perfectly safe and reasonable for them to do in a business environment where everyone except the GTA, Call of Duty and Assassin's Creed people are going out of business even when their games sell well. Just start over from scratch and roll the dice. That's sound.

.......You're alright, you. :lol:

[AquaParade]

Couldn't bring myself to finish this or play it at all over last week. I'm not sure if I'll finish it. What I've heard about the handling of the story near the end of the game does sound awesome, but I can't remember the last time a game felt like such a chore to play.
Everything outside of the excellent combat is not just boring, but tedious. I think I'll opt out of the last few chapters for now, but I'd even be willing to try it again on the cheap if they give it a makeover/directors cut down the line.

[Andrew NDB]

Tried to play it today. I guess I left off last time at some gate where I need to find... something to get through. I don't remember what I was doing when I left off (the risk when drinking a lot of vodka and playing video games at 4 AM). I wandered around by a lot of NPCs that I can't talk to and sort of lost interest in the game.

[Andrew NDB]

Much further now. I'm in Wall Town, doing the arena fights. So far I've died twice fighting the final opponent, a giant house called "Hell House." Which underscores a really STUPID part of the battle system. Even if I have a bunch of potions on me, it won't even let me use Item until I either whack at the Hell House a bunch of times (which just gets me hurt more) OR if I try and block a lot of hits, either way builds up the ATB meter. So I'm basically flailing around, almost dead, and it won't let me use any potions so I die.

[Andrew NDB]

Beat it now. At the end... when you're about to leave Midgar you go into a black hole and an alternate dimension (or something?) and fight Sephiroth. And it's like the end of the original game suddenly.

Wtf is this? This is like more Advent Children garbage. Willy nilly.

[turtle1237]

How odd. My one friend who's a huge FF7 purist who hates everything BUT the actual FF7 game gave this a spin and he loved it, despite hating newer FF stuff in general and having lots of doubts about this project until he actually played it. Weird. I don't have a PS4 so I won't be able to play it until who knows when, anyway, but his endorsement sat pretty strong with me.

I do share the trepidation about the business model regarding this, though. I've been making the same jokes for a couple of years now. Kinda think they're over-reaching just a bit. Guess we'll see.

As for them now only being in the "FF7" business, well... yeah, that's disappointing, but what are they supposed to do? "Final Fantasy" as a brand was only ever super popular in America thanks to that one game. The rest all had various degrees of success, and a lot of them were "better" games, sure, but... well, 7 is the one everyone talks about, and for better or worse is what the "brand" is represented by to most people. Not 8. Certainly not 9, which nobody even talks about or remembers.

I mean, I get it. But when you've done ten FF games since FF7 and most of them have only had mediocre success, some of them failed badly, and none of them left much of a mark on pop culture at all... and when business is down across the board, nobody's buying a ton of games BUT they just keep getting more and more expensive to produce, well... what are they supposed to do? It's basically "milk FF7" or "give up and go out of business." Because they can't well take another 10 years and millions of dollars to underwhelm everyone like they did with XV, that's lunacy.

I'unno. We'll see. I like FF7, so I'm looking forward to finally playing this. Hopefully it'll get finished. Most people I know are pretty happy with it so far.

I enjoy 8, and 2 a bit more than 7 lol. 8 is my favorite FF game of all time. And 2 is a underrated masterpiece. Yes the leveling system can be broken in that game, but I enjoy the story.

[Andrew NDB]

I enjoy 8, and 2 a bit more than 7 lol. 8 is my favorite FF game of all time. And 2 is a underrated masterpiece. Yes the leveling system can be broken in that game, but I enjoy the story.

By 2 do you mean 2, or 4?

[Leo656]

The real FF2 was the one with the broken leveling system. It's pretty notorious so they probably didn't feel the need to clarify.

[turtle1237]

The real FF2 was the one with the broken leveling system. It's pretty notorious so they probably didn't feel the need to clarify.

I thought almost every one knew of the broken leveling system? You can become GODS before you even leave the first town. Its not a bad system, its a easy system to use and master, but the problem is, if you know what your doing, in a few battles or so you can be OP very fast.

And the Rebel theme? One of the best music pieces in the entire series. I know the game gets a lot of flack, but this was a fun game to play.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=60oAz-KCemQ

[Andrew NDB]

So you can upgrade to the PS5 version of FFVII Remake for free, but you have to pay for the (apparently PS5 exclusive?) new chapter revolving around Yuffie:

https://kotaku.com/final-fantasy-vii-remake-gets-ps5-version-with-new-stor-1846359322?rev=1614292388824&utm_campaign=Kotaku&utm_content=1614292455&utm_medium=SocialMarketing&utm_source=facebook

[Sumac]

With the new mobile Ever Crisis re/de(make), SE milks FF7 for all its worth.

[Andrew NDB]

It's a little bit appalling that SE is devoting their staff at all to working on side stuff for the existing FF7 "Remake" just to sell PS5 copies of the game as opposed to... you know, actually committing these staff to actually remaking the other 95% of the game they forgot to get around to with the first game.

[neatoman]

I'm actually a little annoyed that Ever Crisis is a mobile exclusive. It seems like it would be perfect for lower end systems like the Switch or ideal for laptops, yet it's exlusively put in mobile, a platform that would be trash even it weren't for the typical slimy schemes of mobile games.

[Sumac]

I'm actually a little annoyed that Ever Crisis is a mobile exclusive. It seems like it would be perfect for lower end systems like the Switch or ideal for laptops, yet it's exlusively put in mobile, a platform that would be trash even it weren't for the typical slimy schemes of mobile games.
Just play it on emulator on PC, like I do with some games.
You can even use joypad.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

Ff7 is my favorite game of all time, but I have no interest in playing the remake.

[CyberCubed]

Ff7 is my favorite game of all time, but I have no interest in playing the remake.

The remake is a great game. Has my favorite combat in an RPG ever. I just can't believe how fun it is to play, and the real-time switching between Cloud/Tifa/Barret/Aerith is great too. So glad they didn't keep the remake turn-based.

I have about 52 hours in the game. I'll probably replay it on PS5 eventually since we get that one for free. And of course the Yuffie DLC would be paid content, it's probably going to be $20 which is about the standard price for DLC. It'll probably be 6-7 hours long so it'll be worth it.

[Leo656]

I just have a bad feeling that by the time they get to the actual "end of game" content, it'll be on the PS8.

Like when they first announced this project YEARS ago and said it was going to be released in "episodes", I figured alright, I'll wait it out and eventually they'll release a "Deluxe Edition" or whatever with all the chapters in one set. But it's becoming pretty obvious that's never going to happen. And that's got me pretty discouraged and making me not even want to bother with it. I don't want to play one chapter or episode or whatever every two or three years, I just want to play the "whole" game in one shot.

This is a very cynical strategic move by Square/Enix, and probably Sony too. After FFXV, they pretty much figure that they can't "sell" Final Fantasy unless it's Cloud and Co., since that's all anyone responds to. So they found a way to stretch FF7 over about a dozen or more games' worth of content, and voila, they're promised multiple multi-million sellers over the next decade-plus, since it will be at least that long before they actually get to the stuff that was on Disc 3 of the original game. Furthermore, with each release being a timed exclusive, Sony sees their PS sales go up.

I'm sure it's a fun game, and I really liked the original a lot, but the way it's being done has really turned me off to it. I skipped the PS4 entirely because almost every single other game I wanted to play was on Xbox One, which I ended up getting first, and I didn't feel like dropping another $400 on a console just to play two or three exclusive games. As it is, this project feels like a massive overreach that's being done for the most cynical corporate reasons and I don't like how they're handling it.

[CyberCubed]

FF7 is basically it's own spinoff series seperate from the rest of Final Fantasy now.

The first remake takes 45-50 hours to beat so it's definitely a long complete game. The current idea is it's being split into a trilogy, with the second game coming around late 2022 or 2023, and the third part sometime after that. And of course some other various spinoffs like mobile games and extra stuff is coming out too.

I'm all for it. I lost interest in the main series, like Final Fantasy 16 is coming out this year and I have virtually no interest in it, but I'll buy all the FF7 sequels.

[Andrew NDB]

Just play it on emulator on PC, like I do with some games.
You can even use joypad.

Hmm... can you advise me? I tried to find a way to emulate "Adventures of Mana" from mobile on PC (and then I tried to find a way to emulate the same game on PS Vita only to spend 2 hours on it to realize PS Vita emulation isn't "there yet"), but I couldn't make it work.

[Sumac]

Hmm... can you advise me? I tried to find a way to emulate "Adventures of Mana" from mobile on PC (and then I tried to find a way to emulate the same game on PS Vita only to spend 2 hours on it to realize PS Vita emulation isn't "there yet"), but I couldn't make it work.
Download Bluestacks or Nox for your PC (I recommend Bluestacks at the moment) and download game you want from Google Play (if its there). Install the game like you usually do with apps for Android and launch it.

If you have any questions, ask them, I will try to help.

[AquaParade]

I thought the remake was horrible. Total slog. Combat was good but getting around and everything else was a total chore.
I did love the original like everyone else.

[CyberCubed]

I thought the remake was horrible. Total slog. Combat was good but getting around and everything else was a total chore.
I did love the original like everyone else.

The only chapter was terrible was the second time you visit the sewers to chase after the rat thing that ate the key. That part was total filler and making you go through the sewers a second time was awful.

Every other chapter was great.

[Prowler]

I've never played FF7 since I didn't have a PS1 growing up, and as an adult I never looked out for it because I guess I just assumed it would disappoint me due to its age showing, kinda like Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time are no longer as amazing as they were in 1996-1998.

I'd like to have played this remake, but it took years for them to finally release it and it's a PlayStation exclusive, as expected. The only PlayStation console I have is the PS2. And it's highly unlikely I'll get a PS5 since the Switch has a lot of games and I'm not getting a PS5 just to play a few of its exclusives.

Surprisingly, the FF8 remaster is available on the Switch. As is the original FF7 game. I'll definitely get the remastered version of FF8 someday. Is it worth playing the original FF7 in 2021 for someone like me who never played the game before, though?

[Leo656]

I think so, but it depends on how you feel about turn-based RPGs. It can be a little grind-heavy in the middle. You can probably finish it within a week to ten days playing a couple hours a day, less if you use a strategy guide to make sure you don't waste any time or miss any important quest items. I think the story and characters are what really makes up for a lot of the other things it maybe isn't great at, for a lot of people.

Kinda hard to really illustrate what it was like seeing it for the first time when it was brand new. The opening cinema along with the soundtrack was like a revelation compared to anything that had ever come before and it really made the game feel like a huge deal. I played the hell out of it back in high school but I never finished it at the time since I kept getting distracted by new wrestling games coming out. So a little over a year ago I finally committed to finishing it and I knocked it out in a few days.

I like it, it's fun. Not very hard although it's easy to miss a couple of items if you don't know exactly where to look or how to get them, but it doesn't make the game unbeatable if you don't get them, there's just a few things that make it a little easier. Or a lot easier. Knights of the Round Materia kind of makes the last Boss fight super easy, but it's an optional Materia and not mandatory to complete the game. RPGs have come a long way since then but I think it's still a lot of fun and it was very innovative at the time.

[Prowler]

I think so, but it depends on how you feel about turn-based RPGs. It can be a little grind-heavy in the middle. You can probably finish it within a week to ten days playing a couple hours a day, less if you use a strategy guide to make sure you don't waste any time or miss any important quest items. I think the story and characters are what really makes up for a lot of the other things it maybe isn't great at, for a lot of people.

Kinda hard to really illustrate what it was like seeing it for the first time when it was brand new. The opening cinema along with the soundtrack was like a revelation compared to anything that had ever come before and it really made the game feel like a huge deal. I played the hell out of it back in high school but I never finished it at the time since I kept getting distracted by new wrestling games coming out. So a little over a year ago I finally committed to finishing it and I knocked it out in a few days.

I like it, it's fun. Not very hard although it's easy to miss a couple of items if you don't know exactly where to look or how to get them, but it doesn't make the game unbeatable if you don't get them, there's just a few things that make it a little easier. Or a lot easier. Knights of the Round Materia kind of makes the last Boss fight super easy, but it's an optional Materia and not mandatory to complete the game. RPGs have come a long way since then but I think it's still a lot of fun and it was very innovative at the time.
FFX is the only FF game I've played to this day so far and I liked it a lot, even though it's a somewhat polarising game among a significant portion of the fandom mostly due to the cast of characters not being so liked overall. I mean, OK Tidus and Yuna are meh, but what's wrong with Auron and Lulu? Rikku, Wakka and Khimari aren't bad either.

Anyway, I have experience with turn based RPGs. I've also played DQ8, Earthbound and Pokémon before. So I know what to expect from that kind of gameplay.

A little grinding is always expected in these kind of games.

I am not expecting a super hard game. Final Fantasy is literally the most popular RPG series on the planet alongside Pokémon. Therefore it is meant to be accessible to people who are either new to the genre or don't play a lot of JRPGs.

[frank_one]

Hmm... can you advise me? I tried to find a way to emulate "Adventures of Mana" from mobile on PC (and then I tried to find a way to emulate the same game on PS Vita only to spend 2 hours on it to realize PS Vita emulation isn't "there yet"), but I couldn't make it work.The way it works is that you don't need to emulate the game but you must emulate the whole operating system, Android.
As sumac already said, you need to download an Android emulator (BlueStacks or NoxPlayer) and then you install the game through the Google Play Store like you would do on your phone. That's it.

[Sumac]

I've never played any FF game (except few minutes in FF1 and FF13). My friends didn't have SNES or interest in JRPGs and later we had too many money problems back in the 90s to allow me PS1 or game magazines, so I didn't even know that FF7 was a thing or how big it was until after 2007 or so.

So discovering all of this is kind of interesting, but sad to me, since it is unlikely that I am gonna play any of those games.

[Andrew NDB]

I've never played any FF game (except few minutes in FF1 and FF13). My friends didn't have SNES or interest in JRPGs and later we had too many money problems back in the 90s to allow me PS1 or game magazines, so I didn't even know that FF7 was a thing or how big it was until after 2007 or so.

So discovering all of this is kind of interesting, but sad to me, since it is unlikely that I am gonna play any of those games.

Really, just play any of them. None of them are connected at all.

For me, I think to try and play FF7, 8, or 9 again all the way through is going to be a tall order (and yes, I own the "remix" versions of all 3 on PS4 that put them in "HD"). Sh*tty PS1 polygons age poorer than 16 bit sprites, IMO. FF IV, V, and VI still seem playable.

[Sumac]

I know the games are not connected (except for specific sequels and Ivalice subseries), but still there are too many of them and they are not platformers or shooters, which can be finished in 3-4 days.

Besides, they are different versions of first 6 games, so it is always a problem what to choose. Like first game has about 7-8 different versions with different graphics and content.

[Prowler]

Really, just play any of them. None of them are connected at all.

For me, I think to try and play FF7, 8, or 9 again all the way through is going to be a tall order (and yes, I own the "remix" versions of all 3 on PS4 that put them in "HD"). Sh*tty PS1 polygons age poorer than 16 bit sprites, IMO. FF IV, V, and VI still seem playable.
I got Super Mario 3D All-Stars when it came out and played Super Mario 64 again and boy that game didn't age too well. The camera had always been faulty but nwoadays it's even worse. And the constant feeling that you're walking on ice made it pretty frustrating. Add joycon drift to that and you have a dangerous combo.

The graphics also, naturally, look dated.

It's a shame because Mario 64 was a massive game for its generation and acclaimed by many as the greatest game ever made around 1996.

Ocarina of Time also aged, but that game is still more playable than Mario 64. It's mechanics still work well. It's just that it doesn't feel as epic anymore since several great action adventure games have been made since then and a younger gamer is probably better off playing those. Someone born in the year of 2000 isn't going to be wowed by Ocarina of Time. That being said, the 3DS remake was a good remake. So I definitely would recommend giving that one a try.

[CyberCubed]

I've never played any FF game (except few minutes in FF1 and FF13). My friends didn't have SNES or interest in JRPGs and later we had too many money problems back in the 90s to allow me PS1 or game magazines, so I didn't even know that FF7 was a thing or how big it was until after 2007 or so.

So discovering all of this is kind of interesting, but sad to me, since it is unlikely that I am gonna play any of those games.

The original FF7 is a very easy RPG, it's why it became so popular. It was basically the wests "babies first RPG" for a lot of people who were teenagers in the PS1 era or people who don't like turn-based RPG's in general. You never have to grind and the game on Switch/PS4/PC has a 3x speed option where you can speed up the battles/gameplay so you don't have to sit through the same attack animations over and over.

Besides that the game is only about 30 hours long which is short for RPG standards. I played through it for the first time recently and really enjoyed it.

[Prowler]

The original FF7 is a very easy RPG, it's why it became so popular. It was basically the wests "babies first RPG" for a lot of people who were teenagers in the PS1 era or people who don't like turn-based RPG's in general. You never have to grind and the game on Switch/PS4/PC has a 3x speed option where you can speed up the battles/gameplay so you don't have to sit through the same attack animations over and over.

Besides that the game is only about 30 hours long which is short for RPG standards. I played through it for the first time recently and really enjoyed it.

Are you talking about the plot/story only? Or are you including sidequests and other stuff in those 30 hours? Because what's a JRPG without any of those things?

[CyberCubed]

Are you talking about the plot/story only? Or are you including sidequests and other stuff in those 30 hours? Because what's a JRPG without any of those things?

I mean most of the sidequests besides whatever those max materia quests are can all be done really fast especially if you know where everything is. FF7 doesn't even have many major sidequests outside recruiting Yuffie and Vincent (and the quests associated with them), everything else is just picking up special moves or whatever.

[Andrew NDB]

Just finished installing the new PS5 version of this ("Intergrade"), plus the new Yuffie sidequel that adds 2 chapters. Will see what this is about shortly.

Dabbling a little, though, in my old saved games... this looks pretty incredible.

[Andrew NDB]

Finished the new Yuffie "intermission." It's two chapters and you can expect to play about 3 hours, unless you want to engage in the "Fort Condor" mini game that's around town (totally optional).

It's just about exactly as I imagined it would be. A lot of reused assets, some new ones, and a pretty quick affair. The story is surprisingly emotional, particularly at the end. Yuffie herself is a lot of fun. I like how she "Naruto runs" when she's trying to be stealthy.

I don't know if it was worth $20 (maybe... $10?) but it was decent. The end of it even brings the main cast a little further ahead than in the ending of the main game. And yeah, it's really looking like no overworld map ("THIS is where they go after Midgar!").

[CyberCubed]

I hope it doesn't take long for FF7 Part 2. It's likely not coming till 2023 at the earliest, and that's already 2 years from now.

[Andrew NDB]

I hope it doesn't take long for FF7 Part 2. It's likely not coming till 2023 at the earliest, and that's already 2 years from now.

I sincerely hope they didn't pull anybody off of working on FF7 Remake Part 2 to work on this Yuffie intermission. That would be very upsetting to know.

[sdp]

Might never get finished, the remake underperformed and any second part will only sell less.

[Andrew NDB]

Might never get finished, the remake underperformed

Did it?

https://www.slashgear.com/final-fantasy-vii-remake-was-a-big-hit-for-square-enix-07632536/

“the highest selling digital release on the PlayStation platform in Square Enix history.”

[sdp]

I believe it got stuck at around 5 million copies while the original sold over 12 million. Another SquareEnix property Shadow of the tomb raider sold 4 million copies and SquareEnix doesn't seem to know where to take the franchise anymore since each Tomb Raider game has sold less than the previous and even the reboot was reported to have underperformed with only 8 million. It isn't the 90s when selling over a million was a success. And FF7 was supposed to be their "huge hit" with decades worth of people asking for it. FF and JRPGs aren't as big anymore and SE likely wanted it to be much bigger than what it did. Like Sonic the Hedgehog 4 never got Episode III perhaps it'll be the same with FF7, especially with how long they planned on stretching it out.

[Leo656]

A LOT of people don't want to play it in "chapters' with two-year breaks in between. They want to wait until it's complete and play the entire thing in one straight shot. Sure, that's gonna be like another 10 years at minimum but I understand why they'd rather just wait.

The delivery model for this game is stupid. "I get to play this awesome FF7 remake in little chunks, about 10% of the story at a time!" That's dumb. I understand that it's so "hi-def" and graphically polished that it takes that long just to make the damn game, but... maybe it shouldn't be. I don't think anyone would cry about it if it were less graphically impressive with the flipside being that they wouldn't need to take 2-to-5 years in between "chapters". By the time they get to the stuff that was Disc 3 of the original game, nobody's even still gonna care. People who were kids when Chapter 1 of the remake came out are gonna be married with kids by then.

It's like, a FF7 remake is something everybody's wanted for ages, and then when they finally do it, they do it the absolute dumbest way possible. It actually WOULDN'T shock me if they never get to even finish it. And then what are you left with?

Dumb.

[Andrew NDB]

All they should've done was bring the visuals up to like the XV standard while maintaining the same structure and overworld map of VII. Add some dungeons and bonus sidequests and done!

They didn't need to make FF VII: The Semi-Interactive Action movie.

[Leo656]

Yeah. A lot of people definitely were not expecting the "remake" to be... literally a completely new game with some of the same skeleton of the original. In fact, that pissed a lot of people off. A ton of my friends JUST wanted the same game they loved as teenagers, just with better graphics and some bonus features/extra content. They didn't want everything completely reworked from the ground up, that's overkill.

Points for effort, but literally nobody asked them to go ahead and do that. And I've always had a bad feeling that it would backfire on them.

Still haven't played it yet. Still don't have a PS4 or 5. I'm one of those people who doesn't want to play through the first little bit of the plot and then sit around with blue balls for 5 years waiting for the next part. I've heard good things about it (even from some of my friends who flat-out hate the redone storyline and the delivery model), but I'm probably gonna wait until there's more game to play... hopefully we will get the entire game, eventually. I'd definitely just take a month or so and just play the entire thing A to Z, if that's ever an option. But playing through a tiny chunk of the story, wait 2-3 years, play a little more, repeat and repeat... nah, I'm not interested in doing that at all.

[CyberCubed]

Might never get finished, the remake underperformed and any second part will only sell less.

sdp, lol. You visit ResetEra and you know that's not true.

[Leo656]

Saxon = Joke Account

[Sumac]

Might never get finished, the remake underperformed and any second part will only sell less.
Dumb trolling is dumb.
Not only part 2 in active development, but SE confirmed whole slew of projects related to the FF7. So much for underperformed project! :lol:

A LOT of people don't want to play it in "chapters' with two-year breaks in between. They want to wait until it's complete and play the entire thing in one straight shot. Sure, that's gonna be like another 10 years at minimum but I understand why they'd rather just wait.

The delivery model for this game is stupid. "I get to play this awesome FF7 remake in little chunks, about 10% of the story at a time!" That's dumb. I understand that it's so "hi-def" and graphically polished that it takes that long just to make the damn game, but... maybe it shouldn't be. I don't think anyone would cry about it if it were less graphically impressive with the flipside being that they wouldn't need to take 2-to-5 years in between "chapters". By the time they get to the stuff that was Disc 3 of the original game, nobody's even still gonna care. People who were kids when Chapter 1 of the remake came out are gonna be married with kids by then.

It's like, a FF7 remake is something everybody's wanted for ages, and then when they finally do it, they do it the absolute dumbest way possible. It actually WOULDN'T shock me if they never get to even finish it. And then what are you left with?

Dumb.
It is impossible to create such big game in a reasonable timeframe.
You want FF7 with modern graphics and stuff? OK, see ya in 10-12 years.

Yeah. A lot of people definitely were not expecting the "remake" to be... literally a completely new game with some of the same skeleton of the original. In fact, that pissed a lot of people off. A ton of my friends JUST wanted the same game they loved as teenagers, just with better graphics and some bonus features/extra content. They didn't want everything completely reworked from the ground up, that's overkill.

Points for effort, but literally nobody asked them to go ahead and do that. And I've always had a bad feeling that it would backfire on them.
If you want to play the same game as before, but with better graphics - there is already a remastered version of the OG FF7.

In general, SE always said it will be a remake with modern graphics and bells and whistles. People who expected "slightly better graphics, but everything else being the same" were dumb to expect that.

sdp, lol. You visit ResetEra and you know that's not true.
RejectEra is like the worst place to get any impressions about success or failure of games. This place is a concentrated combination of boomers and SJW autism - they sometimes not aware of popular games and think that some hits were failures and vice versa.

And since they are boomers and fanboys, no different that their 4Chan counterparts, they are heavily biased towards some games.

[Andrew NDB]

And guaranteed when this is done, things will go straight away into a full-on FF VII-2.

[Leo656]

By the time they get to the endgame content, we won't even need it. The world will actually BE a cyberpunk dystopia by then and we could all just as well simply go outside. :lol:

It's whatever, I'm sure it's fun and I'm sure it did well for them. I still think it's a massive overreach and they could have done just as well without such a monumental effort that's going to take them the next hundred years to complete, if they ever actually do. And I think if for whatever reason they end up abandoning the project before they get to the endgame content, they're gonna look stupid and everybody's gonna say, "See? Shouldn't have done it like that."

But then I'm an all-around "work smarter, not harder" kinda guy. Like seriously, I legit can't see this thing being "completed" before I'm 50. That's... irritating.

Not saying they should have gone and half-assed it or anything, but I'm reasonably certain that most people would have gladly settled for something much less ambitious than what this project has turned into. I'd love to know how much of this is from people actually ASKING Square/Enix to do it this specific way, and how much of it is SE just being themselves.

[Sumac]

As long as it won't fizzle out like Metal Gear Solid or Castlevania series, I am OK with waiting for the series I like to continue.

[CyberCubed]

FF7 is a franchise in itself. The remake takes 50 hours to beat so it's not like they released a 10 hour game. It's most likely going to be a trilogy, so we'll get Part 2 in 2023, and then Part 3 around 2 years after. So it'll all be done during the PS5 generation which is reasonable.

[Andrew NDB]

So Final Fantasy VII Remake Part 2 is called "Rebirth." Comes out not this Winter, but NEXT Winter.

uAJP1uAuiZg

Ugh.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

FF 7 is my favorite game of all time, but I want nothing to do with the remake. They did so much wrong that I don't even want to list all of my criticisms. I hate seeing legacies get crapped on with bad or uncreative material. I wish they would have never revived it just like dragonball z with super. Sometimes dead is better.

[neatoman]

So is the remake "trilogy" eventually going to be sold in on package, so to speak? Because if that's case I might want to wait... And get a bigger SSD if it's going to take up over 300 GB of data...

[Andrew NDB]

So is the remake "trilogy" eventually going to be sold in on package, so to speak? Because if that's case I might want to wait... And get a bigger SSD if it's going to take up over 300 GB of data...

Wait like 7 years for part 3 to be done? I guess you can if you want to.

[CyberCubed]

So is the remake "trilogy" eventually going to be sold in on package, so to speak? Because if that's case I might want to wait... And get a bigger SSD if it's going to take up over 300 GB of data...

I doubt it. It's basically 3 full games and it won't be done till 2026. So then wait till 2030 for a collection or so? lol

[Leo656]

I maintain that all they ever needed to do was take the original game, tighten up the graphics of the in-game a little bit and tack on some updated, "Advent Children"-style cutscenes complete with voice acting, and they'd sell the same amount of copies while doing 1000% less work (and spending 1000x less money).

Instead they're taking 15 years and spending a fortune just to break even. Glad it's not MY money. This is the dumbest "remake" project ever. Totally and needlessly overthought. Nobody outside of Square ever thought, "Boy, what if someone made FF7 like a 'modern' game? Better yet, what if it took over a decade to come out in its entirety?"

I keep forgetting this was even a thing. And I loved the original, so ostensibly I should be the "target audience" for this thing. But most all of my friends who played it hated it and say it misses the entire point, and I'll probably be dead by the time they get to the endgame section anyway. So I just can't be bothered to care.

[Sumac]

I maintain that all they ever needed to do was take the original game, tighten up the graphics of the in-game a little bit and tack on some updated, "Advent Children"-style cutscenes complete with voice acting, and they'd sell the same amount of copies while doing 1000% less work (and spending 1000x less money).
They are doing exactly that with Ever Crisis.
Also, if you want to play FF7 with better graphics you can always play one of the many remasters.

Instead they're taking 15 years and spending a fortune just to break even. Glad it's not MY money. This is the dumbest "remake" project ever. Totally and needlessly overthought. Nobody outside of Square ever thought, "Boy, what if someone made FF7 like a 'modern' game? Better yet, what if it took over a decade to come out in its entirety?"
That is funny how in one conversation you hate nostalgia, but in this case you suddenly go: "Oh no, they suddenly made something new, something that doesn't rely on nostalgia! It SUCKS!!"
How about wee bit coherence?

I keep forgetting this was even a thing. And I loved the original, so ostensibly I should be the "target audience" for this thing. But most all of my friends who played it hated it and say it misses the entire point, and I'll probably be dead by the time they get to the endgame section anyway. So I just can't be bothered to care.
I wonder what point does it miss, sine its only part 1 of the trilogy?
From what I've seen character personalities captured perfectly and even though I am not fun of JRPGs and Anime tropes, I must admit, even I was rather interested in it. Wasn't that the whole point of the game?
I mean, besides, some eco-terrorist ******** spiel about evil corporations, genocidal aliens and the like?

[Andrew NDB]

I maintain that all they ever needed to do was take the original game, tighten up the graphics of the in-game a little bit and tack on some updated, "Advent Children"-style cutscenes complete with voice acting, and they'd sell the same amount of copies while doing 1000% less work (and spending 1000x less money).

Pretty much. Maybe an extra dungeon or two. A more "fuller" ending.

Instead they're taking 15 years and spending a fortune just to break even. Glad it's not MY money. This is the dumbest "remake" project ever. Totally and needlessly overthought. Nobody outside of Square ever thought, "Boy, what if someone made FF7 like a 'modern' game? Better yet, what if it took over a decade to come out in its entirety?"

And it still won't deliver the same sort of experience. Like, will "Rebirth" even let you go back and revisit all of Midgar from "Remake"? I doubt it. It's linear, like a train car on a track with no reverse gears, the same kind of storytelling since FF X (start at one end of map, go to other end of map with only the illusion of exploration). That's not FF VII.

This is just more FF XV with FF VII skins. People don't want that. They want a game like the original FF VII and older FF games. Square just can't get the awful trajectory out of their heads about making things more like a movie that you barely steer which, ironically, started showing its face during the original FF VII ("ooh! we can do FMV movie sequences now!" and look what that led to).

They are doing exactly that with Ever Crisis.
Also, if you want to play FF7 with better graphics you can always play one of the many remasters.

What remasters? Like the ones that don't improve the polygons or FMV sequences but bring everything into 1080p? That just makes things look much worse. The FF VIII Remaster is the worst... very hard to look at. Super sharp character models and like 240p backgrounds.

That is funny how in one conversation you hate nostalgia, but in this case you suddenly go: "Oh no, they suddenly made something new, something that doesn't rely on nostalgia! It SUCKS!!"
How about wee bit coherence?

But it does rely on nostalgia. That's the whole thing. Mostly it hangs it hat on everyone remembering Aerith getting killed by Sephiroth and this somehow undoing that for "OMIGOD!" value. Without the nostalgia for that it is meaningless.

[TMNTFanatic4Life]

I just know if they keep Aerith alive and kill off Tifa at the end of this 3 Part Remake, then I’m done with their FF games.


Ok probably not since I haven’t played a FF game after X-2 but it would be the dumbest thing ever if they kill off Tifa and keep Aerith alive. If they wanna keep Aerith alive then fine but don’t do it at Tifa’s expense just to please certain shippers.

[Sumac]

I just know if they keep Aerith alive and kill off Tifa at the end of this 3 Part Remake, then I’m done with their FF games.

Ok probably not since I haven’t played a FF game after X-2
I am sure SE would be sad. :lol:

And it still won't deliver the same sort of experience.
What if the goal was NOT to deliver the same experience?
Have you thought about it? Besides, there is no to give the same experience with a game remade from scratch 30 years after release of the original. It would have been different. It MUST have been different. Otherwise, there is no point.

This is just more FF XV with FF VII skins. People don't want that. They want a game like the original FF VII and older FF games. Square just can't get the awful trajectory out of their heads about making things more like a movie that you barely steer which, ironically, started showing its face during the original FF VII ("ooh! we can do FMV movie sequences now!" and look what that led to).
Final Fantasy 15 is the third best-selling game in the entire Final Fantasy franchise, so much for people "wanting old FFs".
LOL.

But it does rely on nostalgia. That's the whole thing. Mostly it hangs it hat on everyone remembering Aerith getting killed by Sephiroth and this somehow undoing that for "OMIGOD!" value. Without the nostalgia for that it is meaningless.
The whole Remake project is based on nostalgia, while simultaneously spinning it in the new direction. Takes the best of the both worlds, really.

[Andrew NDB]

Final Fantasy 15 is the third best-selling game in the entire Final Fantasy franchise, so much for people "wanting old FFs".
LOL.

It was a failure. They didn't even finish putting out the DLC chapters they announced because the sales weren't there.


Besides, there is no to give the same experience with a game remade from scratch 30 years after release of the original. It would have been different. It MUST have been different. Otherwise, there is no point.

Tell that to the Resident Evil 2 and 3 and upcoming 4 remakes. I guess there was no point to those at all.

[Leo656]

That is funny how in one conversation you hate nostalgia, but in this case you suddenly go: "Oh no, they suddenly made something new, something that doesn't rely on nostalgia! It SUCKS!!"
How about wee bit coherence?



It's not at all complicated. It's like this: People said they wanted to ride an old, creaky rollercoaster that needed some touch-ups and grease. And instead of just fixing up the rollercoaster like everyone wanted, Square-Enix decided to build an entirely new Disney-sized theme park from the ground up, at great expense. And it's such an elaborate project that not only is the original intent behind the project completely lost, but most everyone who asked for them to fix up the rollercoaster will no longer care or be dead by the time it's completed.

I mean there's nothing wrong with anyone liking what they're doing, but the fact remains, it's not what anyone actually asked them to do and if they'd just taken "the easy way" everyone would already have the game they originally asked for and Square-Enix would already be counting their millions.

[Turo602]

Tell that to the Resident Evil 2 and 3 and upcoming 4 remakes. I guess there was no point to those at all.

Resident Evil 2 and 3 weren't exactly faithful remakes and Resident Evil 4 has already been described as a reimagining.

[superstaff]

I just know if they keep Aerith alive and kill off Tifa at the end of this 3 Part Remake, then I’m done with their FF games.


Ok probably not since I haven’t played a FF game after X-2 but it would be the dumbest thing ever if they kill off Tifa and keep Aerith alive. If they wanna keep Aerith alive then fine but don’t do it at Tifa’s expense just to please certain shippers.

Eh? When did they say they'd kill Tifa? This is the first time I've heard of this.

[Sumac]

It was a failure. They didn't even finish putting out the DLC chapters they announced because the sales weren't there.
One of the best selling-game in the franchise spanning almost 40 years is now a failure. OK, mate.
DLC cancelation most likely has something to do with SE inner politics, which is a known shitshow.

Tell that to the Resident Evil 2 and 3 and upcoming 4 remakes. I guess there was no point to those at all.
RE3 Remake was considered to be pretty bad.
RE4 is yet to be released.
And neither is 1:1 recreation of original games.

It's not at all complicated. It's like this: People said they wanted to ride an old, creaky rollercoaster that needed some touch-ups and grease. And instead of just fixing up the rollercoaster like everyone wanted, Square-Enix decided to build an entirely new Disney-sized theme park from the ground up, at great expense. And it's such an elaborate project that not only is the original intent behind the project completely lost, but most everyone who asked for them to fix up the rollercoaster will no longer care or be dead by the time it's completed.
I am not really sure, what do you mean as an "intent" in this case?
A story? A gameplay? A style?
Intent of FF7 was to create a good JRPG by standards of 1997. It is no longer 1997.

I mean there's nothing wrong with anyone liking what they're doing, but the fact remains, it's not what anyone actually asked them to do and if they'd just taken "the easy way" everyone would already have the game they originally asked for and Square-Enix would already be counting their millions.
Once again, remaster is a thing.
And, imagine SE creators wanting to do something new, instead going the same path again. Once again, I am not a huge fan of JRPG and FF7, but I can respect them for a taking a risk.

Is this a justified risk? Who knows. Is it an interesting choice? Heck, yes.
Even, if project ends up as a failure, it is still would be pretty monumental.



Eh? When did they say they'd kill Tifa? This is the first time I've heard of this.
Nowhere.
Its just one of the hypothesis.

[Leo656]

By "intent", I mean "Most people just wanted the same game but with nicer graphics and some voice acting." If you ask them, they'll very plainly tell you that's what they wanted from a FF7 "remake".

Me, I'm not a guy where graphics are a huge draw. I certainly APPRECIATE them but I'm still to this day perfectly fine playing the original FF7, warts and all. It's the game that single-handedly made me care about RPGs, a genre I'd never cared about or bothered with before. But when I heard about a "remake", with nicer graphics and some new bells and whistles, I had certain assumptions and expectations in mind. "Literally an entire new game that actually deviates very strongly from the story of the original game" was not what I, or most people, had in mind.

For some of my friends, the story being heavily changed was what finally pushed them away, even if they liked the gameplay and the graphics. I empathize, that game means a lot to some people (I like the game but I'm admittedly more casual about it, for example I've only finished it once). They would have been fine with the plot being expanded upon, but not flat-out changed or overwritten.

Maybe they shouldn't have called it a "remake", or even a "reimagining". Maybe something like "Final Fantasy VII: Gaiden" or something, making it perfectly clear that it's not "actually" a remake but rather a brand new thing that simply uses the original game as a springboard. It still wouldn't be exactly what people wanted, but there may be less annoyance and feelings of betrayal. "They said it was a remake, but it's barely got anything to do with the original" means they Zigged when they should have Zagged.

I can't fault anyone for ambition, certainly. It just seems really clear to me that Square-Enix was more concerned with what they wanted to do than what the fans wanted them to do.

As for FF15, I don't follow it closely (I have one of the more "complete" versions but haven't bothered with it yet). It may very well have sold well but anecdotally, everyone I know who played it hated it. I know it was one of the most-bitched about games in the entire series before the DLC "fixed" it, and even then a lot of people were furious that something like 80% of the game was missing upon release and never bothered getting the updates just on principle. I can't really blame them for feeling that way.

The biggest gripe people tell me about 15 is, "It's NOT Final Fantasy, not even a little." Past that, opinions vary when I ask my follow-up question of "But is it still good as its own thing, ignoring the game's title?" Some say Yes, some say No. It's a curious thing.

[superstaff]

Maybe they shouldn't have called it a "remake", or even a "reimagining". Maybe something like "Final Fantasy VII: Gaiden" or something, making it perfectly clear that it's not "actually" a remake but rather a brand new thing that simply uses the original game as a springboard. It still wouldn't be exactly what people wanted, but there may be less annoyance and feelings of betrayal. "They said it was a remake, but it's barely got anything to do with the original" means they Zigged when they should have Zagged.

I can't fault anyone for ambition, certainly. It just seems really clear to me that Square-Enix was more concerned with what they wanted to do than what the fans wanted them to do.

True, and you're not wrong, but guess what? Nobody would want that. If they announced FFVII: Gaiden as a thing, the internet would either explode into a rage over it, or there'd be some quiet hype but most would be apathetic. The easy cash comes with the FFVII R(emake) title, of course. It's trickery that works. SqueEnix knows this, obviously.

As a creator myself, I get the notion of wanting to 'do your own thing' with a franchise. Thing is, there is a very fine line you must walk between doing something that will please yourself and tell the story you want, and something that will please millions of fans. It's tough, it takes a lot of work, and there's some hoops that must be jumped. Most creators take an attitude of "oh well, who cares what those f*ckers want".....and that tends to taint the waters, so to speak, because you're basically flipping off your audience, and audiences don't like to be taunted/insulted.

On the other hand, fans tend to be pretty rigid. Most of the time, people want to be spoonfed a scene for scene, 100% recreation of everything they know and love from a movie, comic, game, etc. This happens a lot with comic book adaptations. I still think the closest we've ever gotten is probably Watchmen, and even that changed some stuff up (for the better, if you asked me, I suppose). There should be some leeway given to adaptations, remakes, etc... Some leeway, let me emphasize. Again, it's a fine line that creators need to walk.

I mean, for instance, the current rumor that they'll kill off Tifa instead of Aerith this time. I'm of the mind that anything can be done well with the proper writing to back it up. Will that be the case here? I...don't think so. The problem with this specific twist is that it gives off the vibes that it's a shock value 'tweest' meant to 'create buzz on Twitter' and outrage fans. That often doesn't come from a place of wanting to tell a compelling story. If they wanted to pull this off, I think they needed to do a lot more with Tifa's character, and change a lot more of the original FF7 story to justify her death. Otherwise, it'll come off as very, very cheap. In fact, if they wanted to show us what the story would be like if Aerith never died, then why must Tifa or any other character need to die in her stead? As a writer, you need to ask yourself those sorts of questions... However, I doubt whoever is writing the script for this game is asking anything of that sort. Nope, there's deadlines they need to meet, shareholders to please, suits with guidelines, and...maybe a part of them also wants to fling mud at the fans, and 'troll' them to create chaos on social media. Maybe I'm wrong, of course. It's just that this has been the current game a lot of modern entertainment has been playing, no? From Picard to the Star Wars sequels to the superhero movies to Square Enix's other slate of games in the last decade+.

[Andrew NDB]

True, and you're not wrong, but guess what? Nobody would want that. If they announced FFVII: Gaiden as a thing, the internet would either explode into a rage over it, or there'd be some quiet hype but most would be apathetic.

Yeah, people would go, "Eh, fine, but where's the remake?"


The biggest gripe people tell me about 15 is, "It's NOT Final Fantasy, not even a little." Past that, opinions vary when I ask my follow-up question of "But is it still good as its own thing, ignoring the game's title?" Some say Yes, some say No. It's a curious thing.

I was able to grin and bear some of the more cringey stuff in FF XV like all the hipster talk and the dude constantly taking cell phone pics... but man, what a horrible back half. All of that time wasted playing the game and it turns into a Japanese emo suicide drama. I was angry when I got to the end. I couldn't even muster up enough interest to play any of the DLC afterward.

And yeah. It's basically a grown-up Kingdom Hearts. Walk around and use a jump button while slashing enemies like an action game.

[superstaff]

I was able to grin and bear some of the more cringey stuff in FF XV like all the hipster talk and the dude constantly taking cell phone pics... but man, what a horrible back half. All of that time wasted playing the game and it turns into a Japanese emo suicide drama. I was angry when I got to the end. I couldn't even muster up enough interest to play any of the DLC afterward.

This is a result of Square trying to 'appeal to the kiddos' by having hipster d-bag crap in it, but they also want to tell a 'dark, mature story' as well to give it 'depth' so therefore they added all that stuff into the back half instead of either easing the audience into darker subject matter as it went along, or sprinkling it in from the beginning. Sloppy, crappy writing and direction. It doesn't help that their 'mature storyline' wasn't very mature at all either, and is just shallow melodrama.

[Turo602]

Since when did the rules on remakes become so strict? Games like Resident Evil and Metroid: Zero Mission take extreme liberties with the original content and are still considered faithful remakes that outclass their originals. Even with movies, remakes don't necessarily have to be shot by shot remakes, and in Psycho's case, was considered awful and defeated the purpose of remaking the film. Yet a movie like Little Shop of Horrors became a full on musical and is more revered than the original.

I think the point of remaking Final Fantasy VII, much like with Resident Evil 2, 3, and 4, is not to please those who just want the same experience but prettier and refined, but to update and modernize a classic for a new generation that maybe hasn't been able to experience the originals or won't touch them because they're so outdated. I've definitely had my gripes with the recent Resident Evil remakes despite how perfectly they've modernized the classic formula. But in Resident Evil 4's case, I would definitely welcome as much change as possible seeing as the original killed the franchise and distanced itself from survival horror, something the remake seems it wants to fix.

I've personally never played a Final Fantasy game, but I know VII is supposed to be this huge deal and so if I'm ever gonna play one, it's gonna be the remake. But their release plan has definitely put me off of it as I just want to experience it all in a single package than have to buy three copies years apart from eachother.

[Leo656]

For me that's a huge part of it. I don't want to play it in chunks with 5-year gaps in between. And I don't want to qualify for the Denny's Senior Menu by the time the thing is "complete" and I can sit down to play it in one shot.

I'm aware that that's more of a Me Problem, it's just baffling to me why they chose to do it like this, specifically. Because I know I'm not the only one put off by it.

[Andrew NDB]

It's not even clear the story will go anywhere remotely where the original game went. It's entirely possible that the game they already released contains the entirety of the remake elements we'll get, and Rebirth and Game #3 will be going in a totally different direction than the original FF VII. Not just with Aerith.

[CyberCubed]

The actual gameplay in the remake is fantastic, I love the real-time fighting and switching between all 4 characters simultaneously, it's the best combat I've ever played in an RPG. It's probably the most fun I've had especially when you have every characters special moves unlocked.

So far the story hasn't been changed too much, it just seem Sephrioth (and maybe Aerith?) are aware of their fates, and may change them in the next game. But we haven't gotten there yet as the first game only covers till Cloud leaves Midgar which is only like the first 5 hours of the original game.

So who knows.

[Sumac]

But in Resident Evil 4's case, I would definitely welcome as much change as possible seeing as the original killed the franchise and distanced itself from survival horror, something the remake seems it wants to fix.
Wut?
One of the best-selling and celebrated games of all time, not only in the franchise, but in general, had "killed" franchise?
Talking about being overdramatic. :lol:

[Sumac]

By "intent", I mean "Most people just wanted the same game but with nicer graphics and some voice acting." If you ask them, they'll very plainly tell you that's what they wanted from a FF7 "remake".
You have Remasters for that and now an Ever Crisis.

Me, I'm not a guy where graphics are a huge draw. I certainly APPRECIATE them but I'm still to this day perfectly fine playing the original FF7, warts and all. It's the game that single-handedly made me care about RPGs, a genre I'd never cared about or bothered with before. But when I heard about a "remake", with nicer graphics and some new bells and whistles, I had certain assumptions and expectations in mind. "Literally an entire new game that actually deviates very strongly from the story of the original game" was not what I, or most people, had in mind.
And in case of FF7 Remake, Remake is not a definition of what it is, it is a subtitle of the game.

Also, even following initial definition, Remake can be anything creators want. There are no set definitions or rules of what remake should be.

Maybe they shouldn't have called it a "remake", or even a "reimagining". Maybe something like "Final Fantasy VII: Gaiden" or something, making it perfectly clear that it's not "actually" a remake but rather a brand new thing that simply uses the original game as a springboard. It still wouldn't be exactly what people wanted, but there may be less annoyance and feelings of betrayal. "They said it was a remake, but it's barely got anything to do with the original" means they Zigged when they should have Zagged.
Once again, it is not defined what remake is.
You'd had a case, if they said they were doing a remaster.

I can't fault anyone for ambition, certainly. It just seems really clear to me that Square-Enix was more concerned with what they wanted to do than what the fans wanted them to do.
As it should be: writers should write what pleases them, first, not what fans want.
Ideally writers want to find a good balance, but in some cases, I think desires of writers should take priority.

The biggest gripe people tell me about 15 is, "It's NOT Final Fantasy, not even a little." Past that, opinions vary when I ask my follow-up question of "But is it still good as its own thing, ignoring the game's title?" Some say Yes, some say No. It's a curious thing.
Given how the franchise works, there is no strict guidelines what counts as FF game.

More than that, FF brand curator, Kitase, had said in a recent interview, that (paraphrasing) "we slap FF name on our best game at the time".

And that always was the case - a lot of Final Fantasy games were supposed to be something different: Xenogears was supposed to be original FF7 and then become a thing on its own, FF9 had nothing to do with FF series in the begnining.

[Turo602]

Wut?
One of the best-selling and celebrated games of all time, not only in the franchise, but in general, had "killed" franchise?
Talking about being overdramatic. :lol:

If you knew anything about Resident Evil outside of what games sold well, you'd understand why that's in no way an overdramatic statement.

[Andrew NDB]

Given how the franchise works, there is no strict guidelines what counts as FF game.

There kind of is, as part of the numerical series. There has to be a Cid and there has to be either Moogles or Chocobos or both. There has to be "a group of heroes going on an adventure" and a singular main bad guy behind it all that has to be fought and defeated.

[Sumac]

If you knew anything about Resident Evil outside of what games sold well, you'd understand why that's in no way an overdramatic statement.
If you was less overdramatic queen, you'd understood that things change and maintaining the same formula had become unfeasible for the Resident Evil series.
And it's not like RE had stopped producing more horror oriented games.
So all this "RE4 killed RE series" is dumb type of autistic ********.

There kind of is, as part of the numerical series. There has to be a Cid and there has to be either Moogles or Chocobos or both. There has to be "a group of heroes going on an adventure" and a singular main bad guy behind it all that has to be fought and defeated.
FF brand curator, Kitase, had said in a recent interview, that (paraphrasing) "we slap FF name on our best game at the time".
And Cid and Chocobos can be added later, after the core concept had been established.

[Turo602]

If you was less overdramatic queen, you'd understood that things change and maintaining the same formula had become unfeasible for the Resident Evil series.
And it's not like RE had stopped producing more horror oriented games.
So all this "RE4 killed RE series" is dumb type of autistic ********.

If you weren't such a corporate c*ck sucker, you would know using the empty "things change" argument is pointless and retarded. Especially in regards to Resident Evil which you know nothing about. Resident Evil 4 isn't even anywhere near the best selling game in the series nor did it even sell all that much better than REmake. It just had the benefit of being ported to a much more popular console. Spewing bullsh*t corporate lies doesn't make you look informed, especially when Resident Evil 4 literally wipes the story clean and rebooted Resident Evil into a trend chaser.

[Leo656]

By "ruined the franchise" or whatever, I'd assumed you meant that it took the brand away from "survival horror" into full-blown Action Movie Cartoon Land. Which I hear a lot of people say, frankly.

I don't doubt for one moment that RE4 is maybe the best-playing and "most fun" game in the series, but I can understand the frustration some people have felt in moving away from the survival horror formula into something totally different.

It's just kinda funny to me how a lot of the people who are all "Things evolve or die" are very selective about it, like when a band they like tinkers with the formula it's all "That's it, they're dead to me." Whether it was just to sell more records or an actual and sincere interest in artistic growth and experimentation, fans are generally like "Stick with what brought you to the dance, assholes". Whether the new music is good or not, people will hate it for "Not being exactly the same as the old stuff".

So it's just weird to me, the discrepancy. Like, you're not allowed to like "Load" or "ReLoad" because "That sh*t ain't Metallica". BUT, a "Final Fantasy" or "Resident Evil" game can be almost NOTHING like the earlier stuff, and those same people will say, "As long as it's good, who cares? The same old thing forever is boring. Evolve or die!"

I admit, I spend a lot of time studying people, as well as myself, so these kinds of things might jump out at me more than the next guy. But it's not a new thing and it's always fascinated me.

[Turo602]

It's not even as dramatic as numbnuts here is even making it out to be either. It's simply a matter of fact. Resident Evil 4 and onwards could have been an entirely new IP, even 7 and 8. He thinks he sounds smart by saying things need to evolve like that means what they did was somehow the only way it could have evolved when the recent remakes prove that to be false anyway.

When a franchise is stripped of its identity, its story, and is molded to become whatever is popular at the time, it is no longer the series it once was and is therefore dead, and Capcom knows this, which is why they keep trying to lure back old fans with remakes while experimenting with the main titles because they'll get by on name alone to the casual gamers.

I don't doubt for one moment that RE4 is maybe the best-playing and "most fun" game in the series, but I can understand the frustration some people have felt in moving away from the survival horror formula into something totally different.

If this were 2005, sure, Resident Evil 4 could be considered the most "fun" and best playing. But that game is seriously dated in a lot ways most people don't want to admit. I recently tried it again and man, it's pretty rough, and I had to try RE5 again just to see if it felt the same and RE5 honestly holds up flawlessly still compared to RE4.

[Leo656]

I'm more of a Silent Hill guy, and I remember how people pitched a fit in "Homecoming" because you could beat the sh*t out of the monsters, now.

I can see how RE4 would upset some people by being a much greater departure for that series than "Homecoming" was for Silent Hill.

[Sumac]

If you weren't such a corporate c*ck sucker, you would know using the empty "things change" argument is pointless and retarded. Especially in regards to Resident Evil which you know nothing about. Resident Evil 4 isn't even anywhere near the best selling game in the series nor did it even sell all that much better than REmake. It just had the benefit of being ported to a much more popular console. Spewing bullsh*t corporate lies doesn't make you look informed, especially when Resident Evil 4 literally wipes the story clean and rebooted Resident Evil into a trend chaser.
Of course, I am on Capcom payroll, just to piss tiny bitchy fanatics like you.
I wish, I was. It would have been even more fun to do it for money, than just, because, I find riling zealots amusing. :lol:

I will amend my statement that RE4 was the best selling RE game in history. It was not, but nevertheless it was enormously influential on the industry.

Saying that RE4 was the popular just, because, it was ported on popular console is dumb as ****. Most of RE game were released almost on every platform, yet not every single one of them sold as much or had such enormous influence as RE4.
Conclusion?
You're wrong again.

By "ruined the franchise" or whatever, I'd assumed you meant that it took the brand away from "survival horror" into full-blown Action Movie Cartoon Land. Which I hear a lot of people say, frankly.
Well, they just need to deal with it.
Like people who wanted to see their FFs as turn-based classic JRPGs.

It's just kinda funny to me how a lot of the people who are all "Things evolve or die" are very selective about it, like when a band they like tinkers with the formula it's all "That's it, they're dead to me." Whether it was just to sell more records or an actual and sincere interest in artistic growth and experimentation, fans are generally like "Stick with what brought you to the dance, assholes". Whether the new music is good or not, people will hate it for "Not being exactly the same as the old stuff".

So it's just weird to me, the discrepancy. Like, you're not allowed to like "Load" or "ReLoad" because "That sh*t ain't Metallica". BUT, a "Final Fantasy" or "Resident Evil" game can be almost NOTHING like the earlier stuff, and those same people will say, "As long as it's good, who cares? The same old thing forever is boring. Evolve or die!"
You need to know a bit about RE4 development: it had lasted 6 years and during those years, developers tried out almost everything under the sun - putting more focus on fantasy elements (which give us DMC series), trying out different styles and concepts - from a zeppelin to a haunted castle infested with hallucinations, nothing worked out, up until they arrived to the final RE4.

It was not the case, where developers just threw everything out and remade it from scratch, because, they felt like - it was a product of years of testing different ideas until developers found out what pleased them the most.

And surprisingly for all brainless monkeys who are screaming that RE4 went with trends, it was not. RE4 had SET those trends and a lot of modern games carry out its influence. Even recent God of War, I think, was influenced by it. Not to mention REmakes.

So, RE4 was neither a fluke, created by a whimsical desire to do something different just, because, neither it was a case of a trend chasing.

It's not even as dramatic as numbnuts here is even making it out to be either. It's simply a matter of fact. Resident Evil 4 and onwards could have been an entirely new IP, even 7 and 8. He thinks he sounds smart by saying things need to evolve like that means what they did was somehow the only way it could have evolved when the recent remakes prove that to be false anyway.
REmakes don't play anywhere near close to originals, bozo.

When a franchise is stripped of its identity, its story, and is molded to become whatever is popular at the time, it is no longer the series it once was and is therefore dead, and Capcom knows this, which is why they keep trying to lure back old fans with remakes while experimenting with the main titles because they'll get by on name alone to the casual gamers.
Except RE4 didn't lose anything. Its story is connected to the rest of the series. It lends itself to the horror in less capacity than previous titles, but nowhere near as action as RE5 or 6. And it was molded into the game, because, Capcom didn't want to make use of a tired formula which worked only in the middle of 90s.

If this were 2005, sure, Resident Evil 4 could be considered the most "fun" and best playing. But that game is seriously dated in a lot ways most people don't want to admit. I recently tried it again and man, it's pretty rough, and I had to try RE5 again just to see if it felt the same and RE5 honestly holds up flawlessly still compared to RE4.
Gee, man, game from 2005 feels dated! You don't say!
I wonder, how RE1-3 hold up, lol.

[Turo602]

Saying that RE4 was the popular just, because, it was ported on popular console is dumb as ****. Most of RE game were released almost on every platform, yet not every single one of them sold as much or had such enormous influence as RE4.
Conclusion?
You're wrong again.

Know what you're talking about before blindly talking out of your ass. Of course Resident Evil 4 sold well due to more exposure. That's just a f*ckin fact. Was REmake or Zero on the PS2? Considering Resident Evil found its fanbase primarily on the Playstation, most of its audience was on the PS2 and didn't find the Gamecube a worthwhile enough investment for some Resident Evil games. The Gamecube was a flop and the PS2 is the greatest selling console of all time. Do the math.

You need to know a bit about RE4 development: it had lasted 6 years and during those years, developers tried out almost everything under the sun - putting more focus on fantasy elements (which give us DMC series), trying out different styles and concepts - from a zeppelin to a haunted castle infested with hallucinations, nothing worked out, up until they arrived to the final RE4.

It was not the case, where developers just threw everything out and remade it from scratch, because, they felt like - it was a product of years of testing different ideas until developers found out what pleased them the most.

Once again, full of sh*t. Shinji Mikami himself said Resident Evil 4's direction was the result of REmake's poor sales. He even insisted the developers take it easier on the player and make the game more "fun." Being revolutionary doesn't take away from the fact that it became something it wasn't to garner a casual audience after Capcom f*cked up by making the series exclusive to the Gamecube. All Resident Evil 4 did was set a bad precedent for the rest of the series to follow.

REmakes don't play anywhere near close to originals, bozo.

They don't exactly play anything like Resident Evil 4 either, idiot. Unless you mean because you're staring at the character's ass then you clearly don't know anything about video games. Resident Evil 2 has way more in common with its original than it does Resident Evil 4.

Except RE4 didn't lose anything. Its story is connected to the rest of the series. It lends itself to the horror in less capacity than previous titles, but nowhere near as action as RE5 or 6. And it was molded into the game, because, Capcom didn't want to make use of a tired formula which worked only in the middle of 90s.

Now I know you haven't played these games. Resident Evil 4 literally kills its original narrative that all the previous games were building to in an opening monologue and then becomes a rescue the princess type story so it's easier for newcomers to follow along. It's also just as full blown an action game as RE5 was, so I don't really understand where you get that it's not, unless you're one of those idiots who thinks a night time setting and gothic architecture somehow transforms the gameplay experience into something scarier just because it's not set in the broad daylight like RE5, even though you're literally doing the same sh*t in both games.

Gee, man, game from 2005 feels dated! You don't say!
I wonder, how RE1-3 hold up, lol.

If you're gonna make a snide remark, at least try to understand what you're responding to. You just sound f*cking retarded seeing as I clearly said the game is far more dated than people would like to admit. Once again, if you had any idea about what you were talking about, you wouldn't have felt compelled to say something stupid seeing as there's currently tons of resistance from stupid RE4 fanboys like you who think RE4 shouldn't be remade because it holds up so perfectly fine...

[Leo656]

Man, survival horror is serious business.

[Sumac]

Once again, full of sh*t. Shinji Mikami himself said Resident Evil 4's direction was the result of REmake's poor sales. He even insisted the developers take it easier on the player and make the game more "fun." Being revolutionary doesn't take away from the fact that it became something it wasn't to garner a casual audience after Capcom f*cked up by making the series exclusive to the Gamecube. All Resident Evil 4 did was set a bad precedent for the rest of the series to follow.
So, basically what I've said: "original formula has become outdated and ****" and was replaced after long tests and trials. Thanks for confirming my point, I guess.

Also, it is hilarious to think that RE4 was not supposed t be template for the future of the series, because, it was originally on a GameCube. Capcom didn't think it would be a failure of a console and in the past their partnership with Nintendo was extremely profitable for both companies.
Why'd they think it won't work this time?

They don't exactly play anything like Resident Evil 4 either, idiot. Unless you mean because you're staring at the character's ass then you clearly don't know anything about video games. Resident Evil 2 has way more in common with its original than it does Resident Evil 4.
They neither play anywhere near close to the originals, retarded fanboy.
To put it simply so even your simple brain can understand it: without RE4 there won't be remakes.
Even more to the point, without RE4 series most likely when down the toilet like Silent Hill.

Now I know you haven't played these games. Resident Evil 4 literally kills its original narrative that all the previous games were building to in an opening monologue and then becomes a rescue the princess type story so it's easier for newcomers to follow along. It's also just as full blown an action game as RE5 was, so I don't really understand where you get that it's not, unless you're one of those idiots who thinks a night time setting and gothic architecture somehow transforms the gameplay experience into something scarier just because it's not set in the broad daylight like RE5, even though you're literally doing the same sh*t in both games.
Your unhealthy obsession with "original vision" (TM) of the series is hilariously idiotic. "Oh no, they changed it - now it sux!!!" Whatever. What is evolution? What is modernization? No matter, you'd better cry like a retarded baby, that they don't use prerendered backgrounds and hilariously ****** tank controls, like its still 1997.

I've seen this arguments before and they never stop being idiotic. Gladly series won't go back, so you can twist your tiny balls into pretzel all day all night - it won't make lick of change, crybaby. :lol:

As for the story - its not like RE4 was built on top of previous games...but I guess, intricacies of story telling too much for your tiny ganglia, which some people mistake for a brain, unless its set once again in Raccoon City with the same protagonists as always.

If you're gonna make a snide remark, at least try to understand what you're responding to. You just sound f*cking retarded seeing as I clearly said the game is far more dated than people would like to admit. Once again, if you had any idea about what you were talking about, you wouldn't have felt compelled to say something stupid seeing as there's currently tons of resistance from stupid RE4 fanboys like you who think RE4 shouldn't be remade because it holds up so perfectly fine...
I am not in the mood of sifting through the fanboy garbage.
Cry more, lil' baby.

[Leo656]

Even more to the point, without RE4 series most likely when down the toilet like Silent Hill.

Seems a bit harsh. I know they don't make the games anymore (Konami in general just seems like they've given up on making "real" video games altogether, not just that series) and that everyone stopped paying attention after SH3. I've also only played a couple of the games in the series and haven't gotten around to Downpour, the most recent.

BUT... I didn't see any point where the series "went down the toilet". The most recent game I played in the series was Homecoming, which was a VERY fun game. It was just maybe a bit "too easy" and a bit more action-focused than the earlier games, but that was all for the same reason the RE series changed; to make it more fun and easy to get into for neophytes and casuals. Some people say that it being so easy "ruined" it, but I don't think so.

"Shattered Memories" on Wii was a bit of an odd duck and a clear deviation from the franchise norms, but honestly, I had a ton of fun with that game, too. It's its own thing, totally, but I got a huge kick out of the way the game psychologically profiles you, the player, and then the game itself changes based on your responses to various things, right up to which ending you get. That was great, I wish more games had elements like that. Like all Wii games the controls were a bit wonky but it was a fun experiment.

So maybe Downpour sucks or something, I don't know and I won't until I get around to it. I do know that most people say SH2 is the best (I would agree, that game is a masterpiece), that SH4 was "too different" (never played it yet) and that everything after that was "a waste of time" (I very much disagree), but having played a couple of the games that came after SH4, supposedly the point where the franchise "died"... I never saw a spot where the series "went down the toilet".

It's definitely a dead franchise but I take issue with your word choice. The post-SH4 games I've played were good enough, people just chose not to bother with them for their own reasons and thus since they didn't sell like 2 and 3 Konami stopped making more (and as mentioned, they don't really care about making much of ANYTHING, it would seem, these days).

If I end up hating Downpour though perhaps I'll agree more with your chosen descriptor. Until then, I don't think it's apt. To me, "went down the toilet" implies the games got bad, and as far as I'm concerned that didn't happen.
---------------

Anyways, the name calling and insults are dragging this whole conversation down, guys. A long time ago, I never, EVER came into the Video Games section of this forum, because people like Peanut, Cure, and their "crew" would routinely talk like that to people over the dumbest and most innocuous things, and it was tiresome. Even though I'm a huge video game fan and play games almost every day, I almost never came in here because I just can't be bothered with that sh*t, being taken to that level. The fact that the section had its own special rules that allowed for abusive behavior because "Video Gamers are assholes so just expect it" never sat right with me at all.

You both often make great points about video games and different franchises, and you've each given me a lot to think about or educated me on things I didn't know with various games and series. I sincerely appreciate that. And I appreciate that you both feel very strongly from different directions about this topic. But I'd also appreciate taking the temperature down. I know that might sound weird from me of all people, but c'mon guys, we're talking about video games, we don't need to get so hot.

Not to be a glib asshole, but Cure is dead and Peanut and the rest are AWOL. So let this place finally be free once and for all of the toxic legacy they created for the Video Games section, and let people finally just talk about games without all this other sh*t. Please? Like, can we just "disagree nicer"?

Like, it would be nice to appreciate that they're gone, not have other people carrying on the same bullsh*t they all did. It's not necessary. I've never liked it.

Just a suggestion. it's clear you both feel strongly I just don't think this topic warrants so much vitriol.

[Turo602]

So, basically what I've said: "original formula has become outdated and ****" and was replaced after long tests and trials. Thanks for confirming my point, I guess.

Try again. I know you can read, even if daddy didn't raze your asshole tonight. You're just being lazy now.

Also, it is hilarious to think that RE4 was not supposed t be template for the future of the series, because, it was originally on a GameCube. Capcom didn't think it would be a failure of a console and in the past their partnership with Nintendo was extremely profitable for both companies.
Why'd they think it won't work this time?

Nevermind, maybe you can't read. WTF is this even supposed to mean? You seriously think you've made an intelligent point just by pulling words out of your ass?

They neither play anywhere near close to the originals, retarded fanboy.
To put it simply so even your simple brain can understand it: without RE4 there won't be remakes.
Even more to the point, without RE4 series most likely when down the toilet like Silent Hill.

More retard drivel. Just like I pegged you down as a dumb**** who finds RE4 scary because it's night outside, let me guess, you think RE4 doesn't control just like the classics because the camera got moved... You realize RE4 and REmake control damn near identical?

Your unhealthy obsession with "original vision" (TM) of the series is hilariously idiotic. "Oh no, they changed it - now it sux!!!" Whatever. What is evolution? What is modernization? No matter, you'd better cry like a retarded baby, that they don't use prerendered backgrounds and hilariously ****** tank controls, like its still 1997.

I've seen this arguments before and they never stop being idiotic. Gladly series won't go back, so you can twist your tiny balls into pretzel all day all night - it won't make lick of change, crybaby. :lol:

What obsession? What weird stupid garbage narrative have you spun in your head about me over a comment about Resident Evil 4? Is your buttplug not in far enough or something?

As for the story - its not like RE4 was built on top of previous games...but I guess, intricacies of story telling too much for your tiny ganglia, which some people mistake for a brain, unless its set once again in Raccoon City with the same protagonists as always.

Yes, because the previous 3 games ending with "let's stop Umbrella" to Resident Evil 4 starting with "the stock market finished Umbrella" isn't a total f*ckin swerve from the original premise of Leon infiltrating Spencer's castle and ending Umbrella. Just shut the f*ck up about things you don't know about.

I am not in the mood of sifting through the fanboy garbage.
Cry more, lil' baby.

You quoted it, you responded to Leo for his approval, so I know you read it. Don't make excuses for your autism.

Anyways, the name calling and insults are dragging this whole conversation down, guys. A long time ago, I never, EVER came into the Video Games section of this forum, because people like Peanut, Cure, and their "crew" would routinely talk like that to people over the dumbest and most innocuous things, and it was tiresome. Even though I'm a huge video game fan and play games almost every day, I almost never came in here because I just can't be bothered with that sh*t, being taken to that level. The fact that the section had its own special rules that allowed for abusive behavior because "Video Gamers are assholes so just expect it" never sat right with me at all.

You both often make great points about video games and different franchises, and you've each given me a lot to think about or educated me on things I didn't know with various games and series. I sincerely appreciate that. And I appreciate that you both feel very strongly from different directions about this topic. But I'd also appreciate taking the temperature down. I know that might sound weird from me of all people, but c'mon guys, we're talking about video games, we don't need to get so hot.

Not to be a glib asshole, but Cure is dead and Peanut and the rest are AWOL. So let this place finally be free once and for all of the toxic legacy they created for the Video Games section, and let people finally just talk about games without all this other sh*t. Please? Like, can we just "disagree nicer"?

Like, it would be nice to appreciate that they're gone, not have other people carrying on the same bullsh*t they all did. It's not necessary. I've never liked it.

Just a suggestion. it's clear you both feel strongly I just don't think this topic warrants so much vitriol.

The negligence and lack of rules allows clowns like Sumac to run his mouth freely. I don't see why he shouldn't receive the same energy he puts out. I love Resident Evil and I love talking about it to anyone in an in-depth and civilized manner, but it's clear that was never his intention which is why he keeps making autistic edgy comments.

You think I give a f*ck that he's wrong and disagrees with me about video games? He came at me with some mentally ill bullsh*t and I'm supposed to act like we're just talking games? If he's allowed to do that without consequences, why the f*ck shouldn't we all do it too? Does this forum literally need to collapse in on itself for some f*cking action to be taken?

[Andrew NDB]

I admit, I don't know enough about the Resident Evil games (I've played 1 for about an hour and got frustrated, played 0 for quite a while until it seems like it turns out I was playing "survival horror" wrong and didn't really have enough ammo and stuff to go any further, and that's it) beyond the many marathons the wife has gone through I've witnessed and getting her general opinion about it.

That said, this back and forth is very interesting to me. I've heard others echo both sides of this in real life and online.

Best as I can figure, 1 and 2 were both beloved games, 3 isn't REALLY Resident Evil 3, but kind of an exciting sidestory for 2. Then yeah, the Gamecube thing happened, which I was there for. That's when I got 1 and 0. And apparently afterward that's when the shift happened. 4-6 for crazy sci-fi action stuff, then 7-8 for Texas Chainsaw meets... I dunno, fungus people sh**.

[Leo656]

Wasn't Code: Veronica "the REAL RE3"? I've heard some people call it that. Like you, I kinda know dick about RE (despite owning most of them; I'm such an asshole :lol:), only playing 0 a few times and getting stuck. The series intrigues me, I'm just not great at "straight" survival horror.
--------

Anyways, I was just making a suggestion, I'm not really invested in who got mad first or what deserved what reaction. I understand it, I'm not taking a side, I barely even know anything about this franchise. I'm just frustrated that even with the "worst offenders" gone the VG section seems destined to carry on the "legacy" of the guys who ruined it in the first place. Makes me sad.

[Andrew NDB]

Code Veronica might as well have been, from what I've seen and heard. Though there seems to be about 10 side games that go this way and that way with various characters.

I tell you, though, of course I've had the bug in my head to try these out properly one day. But nothing was more discouraging than watching the wife playing the Resident Evil 2 remake and getting to what I think was near the end. She's fighting the Nemesis guy in like an elevator or something, but just plain didn't have enough ammo and herbs and such to get it done. She looks at me plainly and is like, "sh**, I got to start over."

I don't think I'd be OK with that.

[Sumac]

Seems a bit harsh. I know they don't make the games anymore (Konami in general just seems like they've given up on making "real" video games altogether, not just that series) and that everyone stopped paying attention after SH3. I've also only played a couple of the games in the series and haven't gotten around to Downpour, the most recent.

BUT... I didn't see any point where the series "went down the toilet". The most recent game I played in the series was Homecoming, which was a VERY fun game. It was just maybe a bit "too easy" and a bit more action-focused than the earlier games, but that was all for the same reason the RE series changed; to make it more fun and easy to get into for neophytes and casuals. Some people say that it being so easy "ruined" it, but I don't think so.
We can't know for sure, of course, but one of the main problems of Silent Hill was that Konami wanted developers to stick to the same formula again and again, with no modernization.

And when Team Silent finally collapsed they have started outsourcing SH to various Western developers, hoping they somehow strike the gold by copying the same exact formula. Konami did it before, with Contra and Castlevania to mediocre results, so the path was decided in this case.

As for Capcom, there was nothing stopping them ruining series on their own, if they went with just copying the same formula again and again.

Also, Konami generally withdrew form making big video games, because, they have other profitable profitable business (fitness clubs, love hotels, pachinko clubs) and making video games in a HD era was risky for Japanese developers.

Anyways, the name calling and insults are dragging this whole conversation down, guys.
I agree, but I am not the one who had started it and I won't let some wannabe edgy momma's boy to insult me. Its just annoying.

Wasn't Code: Veronica "the REAL RE3"? I've heard some people call it that. Like you, I kinda know dick about RE (despite owning most of them; I'm such an asshole :lol:), only playing 0 a few times and getting stuck. The series intrigues me, I'm just not great at "straight" survival horror.
There is a rumor that Code Veronica was indeed supposed to be "real" RE3 and RE3 on PS1 was intended to be a spin-off, but they swapped positions, due to contractual obligation of Capcom to release three story games on PlayStation 1.

So far no-one can say whether it is true or not. And I personally, not sure what exactly would have a been a problem with PS1 RE3 being just a spin-off - its not like it was less of a game, because, of it.

[Leo656]

I tell you, though, of course I've had the bug in my head to try these out properly one day. But nothing was more discouraging than watching the wife playing the Resident Evil 2 remake and getting to what I think was near the end. She's fighting the Nemesis guy in like an elevator or something, but just plain didn't have enough ammo and herbs and such to get it done. She looks at me plainly and is like, "sh**, I got to start over."

I don't think I'd be OK with that.

That would definitely suck and be discouraging. Can't lie, at this stage in my life I keep a guide nearby for games like this, because while I want "the experience" of finally playing through them I definitely don't want to hit an unpassable wall after putting hours and hours of time in. That happened the first time I played RE:0 and I didn't touch it for like over ten years. Saved in a bad spot, without enough ammo, got stuck in a spot I couldn't get past. Said "F*ck this" and moved on with my life. Went back to it, got stuck AGAIN (although I did get farther), and was like, "F*ck it, next time I play this I'm just gonna use a guide, I'm sick of this sh*t."

I'm getting old, I don't have time to run in f*cking circles and waste days on a game only to hit a brick wall. I don't care if using a guide so I know where to conserve ammo and exactly when to Save undermines the "purity" of the experience. Let the kids on Summer vacation with their unlimited free time run around in circles, I got f*cking sh*t to do. :lol: It's whatever.

I *will* play them all... one day. There's just other, less-frustrating things I'm long overdue for, first.

One thing I've been wondering about with that, though, is that I own RE:0, 1, 2, and 4 for Gamecube (never found a copy of RE3 for GC that wasn't outrageously expensive), and I also own some of those for Xbox One as well. To those who would know, should I even bother with the GC versions, or jump ahead? I am aware that the GC "remakes" and the Xbox One "remakes" of the first couple of games are vastly different in ways far beyond just the graphics. I'm just not sure if I should even bother with the GC versions; I kinda feel like I should, since I bought them, and if I don't play them then it was literally a waste. But I also feel like it might be redundant, and also, that the newer versions might be easier.

I never got the PS originals because I wasn't paying attention to the series at that time and I don't think I'd have the patience to go that far back. I remember watching my friend play the first RE on PS1 and I just... was not into it at all. Like, the concept, yeah. Graphics and controls, not at all. So I kinda think I'd only go as far back as the GC versions, at best.

[Turo602]

I agree, but I am not the one who had started it and I won't let some wannabe edgy momma's boy to insult me. Its just annoying.

You came at me presumptuous and uniformed. Pointing that out got you all f*cking bothered, so f*ck off with your "I didn't start it." You don't know sh*t and you've proved that all over this thread.

[Sumac]

Try again. I know you can read, even if daddy didn't raze your asshole tonight. You're just being lazy now.
Do you seriously believe that using insults, which sound like they are coming from a mouth of 10-year old raised by alcoholics in a trailer park, will inspire any desire to answer you for real?

Yes, because the previous 3 games ending with "let's stop Umbrella" to Resident Evil 4 starting with "the stock market finished Umbrella" isn't a total f*ckin swerve from the original premise of Leon infiltrating Spencer's castle and ending Umbrella. Just shut the f*ck up about things you don't know about.
Oh, no, how dare they make something new with a story without consent of a dumb fanatic like you?

You quoted it, you responded to Leo for his approval, so I know you read it. Don't make excuses for your autism.
Given your attitude I'd say that I am not the one with autism.

The negligence and lack of rules allows clowns like Sumac to run his mouth freely. I don't see why he shouldn't receive the same energy he puts out. I love Resident Evil and I love talking about it to anyone in an in-depth and civilized manner, but it's clear that was never his intention which is why he keeps making autistic edgy comments.

You think I give a f*ck that he's wrong and disagrees with me about video games? He came at me with some mentally ill bullsh*t and I'm supposed to act like we're just talking games? If he's allowed to do that without consequences, why the f*ck shouldn't we all do it too? Does this forum literally need to collapse in on itself for some f*cking action to be taken?
We reached levels of Autism thought impossible.

Look here, retard, I am not the autistic screeching monkey, who started throwing insults left and right, because, someone talked stuff about his favorite series. And I haven't said anything BAD about Resident Evil series.

The fact that you can't handle JUST A TALK about Resident Evil without acting like 10 year old from 4Chan, who masturbated on a Resident Evil disks and acts like anything said about this SACRED series, which deviates from your personal interpretation is "mentally ill" is proof enough that you are the one who needs some therapy.
Probably shock one, since I have a feeling you will stab poor doctor, who will try to talk with you like with a normal person.

You came at me presumptuous and uniformed. Pointing that out got you all f*cking bothered, so f*ck off with your "I didn't start it." You don't know sh*t and you've proved that all over this thread.
I will be curt: eat ****, autist.

[Andrew NDB]

https://media.giphy.com/media/FVIA0oABhcjvpiPgJI/giphy.gif

[Turo602]

Do you seriously believe that using insults, which sound like they are coming from a mouth of 10-year old raised by alcoholics in a trailer park, will inspire any desire to answer you for real?

It's almost like I have no desire to have a serious conversation with someone who acts and types like they need assistance wiping their own ass... All you've done is talk sh*t and make bizarre assumptions because I made a comment about a game you've clearly shoved up your ass a few times since I dared f*cking say anything bad about it. You're clearly the hurt stupid delusional fanboy here which is why you keep making autistic points and still have the audacity to act like you know what you're talking about which is why you keep projecting strange opinions onto me like you're venting your frustrations from being verbally eviscerated on this subject in the past by people clearly more intelligent than you. If you can't approach people correctly, don't cry like a pussy when you get your medicine.

[Leo656]

...SO I should skip the Gamecube versions and go right to the Xbox One versions, I guess? That figures.

[Turo602]

One thing I've been wondering about with that, though, is that I own RE:0, 1, 2, and 4 for Gamecube (never found a copy of RE3 for GC that wasn't outrageously expensive), and I also own some of those for Xbox One as well. To those who would know, should I even bother with the GC versions, or jump ahead? I am aware that the GC "remakes" and the Xbox One "remakes" of the first couple of games are vastly different in ways far beyond just the graphics. I'm just not sure if I should even bother with the GC versions; I kinda feel like I should, since I bought them, and if I don't play them then it was literally a waste. But I also feel like it might be redundant, and also, that the newer versions might be easier.

I'm a little confused, but do you mean the remasters? Because Resident Evil 0, REmake, and 4 are the same exact games on Gamecube as they are on Xbox One. So there's really no reason to play the Gamecube version. Other than being wide-screen and HD, the benefit of playing 0 and REmake on Xbox is that they added a new control option that was supposed to make it easier to move around which does make the characters turn a lot faster making it easier to dodge zombies and save ammo.

RE4 is a little trickier because the Xbox One remaster makes the game run at 60 FPS which I think kinda ruined the experience a little since that's the only difference I can think of between the 360 remaster and the Xbox One version. But sound effects don't sink up that well sometimes on Xbox One and I think I've been experiencing some issues when aiming that I've never had on other versions. But if you can live with minor issues, then there's no reason to not just play it on Xbox.

The Resident Evil 2 and 3 remakes do get the same general story across and is definitely easier than the original. So it's really up to you what you want to do. If it were me, I'd definitely play RE2 on Gamecube because there's so much they cut out of the remake that made it amazing. I also think it's one of the easier games in the series anyway because there's so many ammo pick ups. Playing on easy is also always an option too.

But these games aren't that hard if you know how you're supposed to play them. Maybe you guys just aren't grasping the concept correctly? Especially you, Leo, since I know you've played some sh*t I wouldn't have the time or patience for. If you can put up with Arkham Origins Blackgate and Revenge of Shinobi, then Resident Evil should be cake, man.

I seriously recommend looking up some speed run strategies as they're helpful when it comes to navigation, knowing how to solve puzzles quicker, and learning what kills what enemy more efficiently. These games can be played with nothing more than a knife or be completed in about an hour. So you don't have to kill every enemy you come across if you want to save ammo and health, but truthfully, these games do give you more than enough to get by killing everything, especially the newer ones which even have checkpoints. But they're not shooters either. I also wouldn't be afraid to restart a save if you know you can get through to the next save easier without all the trial and error of playing blind.

I used to be really intimidated by these games as a kid and the first one I actually played was RE4 because it was a lot easier. But having played through some of the older games more recently, it's really pretty easy if you treat it like a puzzle game. It's really more about exploring and solving puzzles to progress than it is combat, which is why these games pretty much lose their horror on subsequent playthroughs because you know what you're doing and getting through the game quicker each time because you start developing better strategies and cutting down on backtracking and your focus is purely on getting from point a to point b.

[Leo656]

Much obliged, hepcat. I appreciate your input. This was all very helpful.

I wouldn't say I "put up" with Revenge of Shinobi. Thanks to that f*cking game I immediately went out and set three homeless people and a large possum on fire.

...I kind of have a bad temper. :lol:

[Turo602]

Much obliged, hepcat. I appreciate your input. This was all very helpful.

I wouldn't say I "put up" with Revenge of Shinobi. Thanks to that f*cking game I immediately went out and set three homeless people and a large possum on fire.

...I kind of have a bad temper. :lol:

I seriously don't know how you play some of those games, man. :lol: I read your reviews and it's like you gotta be really good on some level to play a lot of those sh*tty old games. And Metal Gear, man. You've marathoned Metal Gear. Those games I guess are similar to Resident Evil in that they're pretty archaic and they've intimidated me for that reason as well, but I played through the first three games and admittedly, I didn't play through them well, but I got through them somehow. :lol:

Trust me, once you click with Resident Evil, you'll be good, man. I know you insist you must play them in chronological order, but I seriously recommend starting with REmake. Like you said about Arkham City informing Arkham Origins, it's the same thing here. Zero ups the challenge because it was trying to keep the formula fresh, but REmake is straight to basics.

[Leo656]

Must be the DNA of growing up on an Atari 2600/ColecoVision. :lol: On some level I'm conditioned to "archaic" things. Although modern games have spoiled me utterly. It IS hard to go back, sometimes.

Much as I love James Rolfe, I'm also a little bitter, because for him it's just a gimmick but I actually AM That Guy. With much better fashion sense. :lol: Guy's a f*cking millionaire doing what I'M supposed to be doing, if only I knew how to use a green screen or editing software. :tgrumble: Bastard. It's not fair, he only gets to be who he is because he has nerd friends who know how to do geek sh*t! BAH!

You can't imagine what a mind-f*ck it was during that Metal Gear run, to go directly within 24 hours from MGS V: The Phantom Pain, to... Metal Gear. :lol: I won't lie, the idea that I *might* be something of an idiot did creep in at least once. Still, it was epic, and awesome, and I cried (again) during Big Boss's final soliloquy to Solid Snake in MGS4. Remember when we all thought that the "hero" of the saga was Solid Snake, and turns out it was REALLY Big Boss the entire time? Man. What an amazing series.

...Wall-to-wall ass, too. :lol: I miss when games weren't afraid of cheesecake.

We'll see what happens when I get back in a survival horror mood, how I decide to tackle the RE series. Kinda think I might try Dead Space, first. We'll see, though. You definitely got me thinkin'.

[Sumac]

It's almost like I have no desire to have a serious conversation with someone who acts and types like they need assistance wiping their own ass... All you've done is talk sh*t and make bizarre assumptions because I made a comment about a game you've clearly shoved up your ass a few times since I dared f*cking say anything bad about it. You're clearly the hurt stupid delusional fanboy here which is why you keep making autistic points and still have the audacity to act like you know what you're talking about which is why you keep projecting strange opinions onto me like you're venting your frustrations from being verbally eviscerated on this subject in the past by people clearly more intelligent than you. If you can't approach people correctly, don't cry like a pussy when you get your medicine.
Uneducated autistic lowlife throws an idiotic hysterical temper tantrum, with retarded insults befitting trailer garbage, when someone says something about his precious beloved video game series, but its me who can't approach people correctly. Wow.

*slow clap*

Find yourself a good psychologist.

Or in your parlance: get bend by your inbred brother in your ****** trailer.

[Turo602]

Uneducated autistic lowlife throws an idiotic hysterical temper tantrum, with retarded insults befitting trailer garbage, when someone says something about his precious beloved video game series, but its me who can't approach people correctly. Wow.

*slow clap*

Find yourself a good psychologist.

Or in your parlance: get bend by your inbred brother in your ****** trailer.

Yes, you're the forum angel. Go choke on a f*cking dick already, cry baby ass b*tch. You tried boxing above your weight and f*cking lost. Now wipe your tears and accept responsibility for your stupidity instead of whining and crying like you had none of it coming. Delusional ass bastard. "i TaLkEd aBOuT yOuR gAMe." Say it enough times and suddenly you weren't being a dismissive funny asshole who couldn't back their sh*t up. Not Sumac. No way! Cry harder.

That's all I'll say to this jerk off. You guys can go back to talking about Final Fantasy after he gets all the autism out of his system or whatever.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

This is the first really funny fight I have seen on this forum. Keep it up guys I am about to make some popcorn.

[Leo656]

This is the first really funny fight I have seen on this forum.

I feel attacked.

[Turo602]

I feel attacked.

We set the bar pretty low, so sorry, man. The Jerry Springer sh*t gets ratings.

[Sumac]

Yes, you're the forum angel. Go choke on a f*cking dick already, cry baby ass b*tch. You tried boxing above your weight and f*cking lost. Now wipe your tears and accept responsibility for your stupidity instead of whining and crying like you had none of it coming. Delusional ass bastard. "i TaLkEd aBOuT yOuR gAMe." Say it enough times and suddenly you weren't being a dismissive funny asshole who couldn't back their sh*t up. Not Sumac. No way! Cry harder.

That's all I'll say to this jerk off. You guys can go back to talking about Final Fantasy after he gets all the autism out of his system or whatever.
What do we have here? Lil' trailer trash pretends that he won and that he "so cool at verbal boxing", just, because, he uses dumb**** insults from his inbred family. How adorable.

You've never did anything, except for demonstrating that you have a brain rot and in a dire need of education. And a psychologist.

Now be a good autist, jack off on your Resident Evil disks and **** away from here. You are annoying and nothing else.

[CyberCubed]

Time for a history lesson:

1. Resident Evil 1 on Playstation hasn't aged well, thankfully it was remade on Gamecube in 2001 (commonly called REmake), and has an HD release on PS4/PS5. It's the same game as the Gamecube one but in HD and better controls.

2. Resident Evil 2 is on Playstation/N64 and got remade recently in 2019. Some prefer the original game but the remake is also fantastic.

3. Resident Evil 3 is on Playstation and again got remade as RE3 on PS4/Xbox last gen.

4. Resident Evil: Code Veronica is the 4th game in the series and originally debuted on Dreamcast before being ported to PS2/Gamecube. So far this game has no remake, so the one on the PSN store digitally is the original one from 20 years ago.

5. Resident Evil 0, hence the number, is a prequel to the original game. It debuted on Gamecube in 2001 and got re-released in HD on PS4/Xbox. Again it's the same game as the original but just in HD.

6. Resident Evil 4 is the most popular, debuted on Gamecube and got ported to every console under the sun. The HD version is on PS4 and modern consoles and a remake is coming next year. I suspect the remake won't be as good as the original so I suggest everyone play it.

7. Resident Evil 5 debuted on PS3/360, is also on modern consoles in an HD remaster

8. Resident Evil 6 is considered the worst of the series, debuted on PS3/360, is on modern consoles.

9. Resident Evil 7 took the franchise first person which it never did before, it debuted on PS4/One and is on modern consoles.

10. Resident Evil 8: Village just came out last year and is on PS4/PS5/Xbox, etc.


There's several spinoffs but you don't really need to bother with any of them. There's 10 main games in the series and remakes for several.

[Andrew NDB]

okGnXYjvJRM

Another trailer for "Rebirth," which is apparently the second third of the whole "Remake" business.

So, so stupid...

[Sumac]

Another trailer for "Rebirth," which is apparently the second third of the whole "Remake" business.

So, so stupid...
Why?
Given the scope of original, it is justified to remake it in parts.

[Andrew NDB]

Why?
Given the scope of original, it is justified to remake it in parts.

Calling this thing a remake is being pretty charitable to Square. And again, guaranteed there is no back-tracking in this. You won't be able to revisit Midgar or anything, or anywhere in Rebirth in the next one either. This is going to be the equivalent of every FF since FFX (except XII)... just running down a corridor from one end to the other, no going back, figuratively and... probably literally, too.

[neatoman]

okGnXYjvJRM

Another trailer for "Rebirth," which is apparently the second third of the whole "Remake" business.

So, so stupid...

On two discs and it's only part 2 of 3? Jessus, I knew part 1 was 100GB but that's just absurd. The original was three discs but it was still all one package and the total capacity of a CD is far lower than a Blu-Ray.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder if it'll let you import your saved game from FF 7 Remake so that your stats are recovered and ma -- hahahahah, no, of course there won't be that.

[Sumac]

Calling this thing a remake is being pretty charitable to Square. And again, guaranteed there is no back-tracking in this. You won't be able to revisit Midgar or anything, or anywhere in Rebirth in the next one either. This is going to be the equivalent of every FF since FFX (except XII)... just running down a corridor from one end to the other, no going back, figuratively and... probably literally, too.
I mean, of all remakes, it is probably the rare one, which deserved to be called "remake". It takes stuff from an original game, enhances it and adds to it.
Yeah, it takes some liberties, but once again, the scope of OG game was too large to make it into one single game and writers do not want simply retell the story.

If anything I am all for this style of remakes - it keeps things fresh and interesting, while preserving familiar beats.

Also, if you want something closer to the original style - you have Ever Crisis, now on Steam too. Which also includes story stuff from other FFVII projects.

On two discs and it's only part 2 of 3? Jessus, I knew part 1 was 100GB but that's just absurd. The original was three discs but it was still all one package and the total capacity of a CD is far lower than a Blu-Ray.
You do not understand how much time and effort producing HD game takes this days. Especially of this scope.

All this complaints "why they can not make the game this large nowadays"...well, they can. But it would be a far lesser experience, since it would be far less detailed. And you probably would need to wait this game for 7-8 years. By this point graphics would be outdated and gameplay might be outdated as well.

Once again, each FF7 remake part is not a "part of the bigger game" - it is a game on its own. I know, that people can't precept it right, but this is the case.

[neatoman]

You do not understand how much time and effort producing HD game takes this days. Especially of this scope.

All this complaints "why they can not make the game this large nowadays"...well, they can. But it would be a far lesser experience, since it would be far less detailed. And you probably would need to wait this game for 7-8 years. By this point graphics would be outdated and gameplay might be outdated as well.

Once again, each FF7 remake part is not a "part of the bigger game" - it is a game on its own. I know, that people can't precept it right, but this is the case.

It's really more of a complaint about disk space and the need to install games these days. 100 GB is a huge amount of space and some people (like my sister for example) run around with laptops that only have about 256 GB storage.

[Sumac]

It's really more of a complaint about disk space and the need to install games these days. 100 GB is a huge amount of space and some people (like my sister for example) run around with laptops that only have about 256 GB storage.
Yeah, but once again - quality of the graphics demands some sacrifices.
It is not like we've limited 80Gb hard drives anyway.

Even I've upgraded to 2Tb drive and I don't play most of the modern games.

[neatoman]

Yeah, but once again - quality of the graphics demands some sacrifices.
It is not like we've limited 80Gb hard drives anyway.

Even I've upgraded to 2Tb drive and I don't play most of the modern games.

So you're really cool with dedicating (a mininum) of 20% to three games? Twelve more games of the same size and you're out.

[CyberCubed]

This is fine as a trilogy, and this second game especially will be a big meat of the original game.

[Sumac]

So you're really cool with dedicating (a mininum) of 20% to three games? Twelve more games of the same size and you're out.
Different times, different sizes.
You want good graphics, well, that's the price.

[Andrew NDB]

This is fine as a trilogy, and this second game especially will be a big meat of the original game.

Proportionately I'm not sure how this would make sense. The first "third" of the game in Remake was just Midgar, which was like the first 9% of the original game. Are we really thinking this middle Rebirth part is going to adequately adapt another 55% or so? It'd be hard to believe.

[CyberCubed]

Well considering they confirmed this is a trilogy, logically this second part has to cover a good chunk (50-60%) of the original games areas. Then the final game will cover the final chunk of the game.

This is basically going to be the meat of the original game.

[Andrew NDB]

Nice to read, but I'm still skeptical.

https://wccftech.com/final-fantasy-vii-rebirth-100-hours/

"Open world." Oh, sure. Not picking destinations and fast traveling to them from a list?

[CyberCubed]

They said the world is open where you can travel from one area to the next seamlessly (bar maybe a loading screen here or there). It definitely has some sort of world map or overworld.

[Andrew NDB]

They said the world is open where you can travel from one area to the next seamlessly (bar maybe a loading screen here or there). It definitely has some sort of world map or overworld.

If it's at least like FF XII in that regard I'll be impressed. If you can physically fly the airship somehow and its not just clicking on destinations off a list (with a pretty map behind it), then hats off.

The dream would be, of course, to have no overworld map or areas where you go off into one area and it loads into the next. The dream would be an FF where it's basically GTA where the whole map is accessible, and you can board your airship and actually pilot it about the same map without ever leaving a screen. But Square is increasingly only interested in making movies so I wouldn't ever count on it.

[CyberCubed]

The game is confirmed to be 50-100 hours long depending how much you want to do. Sounds about right, my final playtime for the FF7 remake Pt. 1 was around 55 hours with all sidequests completed. Add in 5 more hours for the Yuffie DLC that came out after and it was about 60 hours total.

If this game is double the size of the first due to having an overworld and towns to explore, I can see it taking as long. Sounds good to me, and I tend not to like overly long games but I can make an exception here.

[Andrew NDB]

So they just unlocked sort of a pre-Junon part of the game in the Rebirth demo. I suspect to show us how open world it is. It's pretty much just like I thought/feared. It's just the same old "go from one end of the corridor to the other to continue to the next story bit/FMV" playbook since FFX by a bit of enclosed shoreline next to Under Junon. Yay, look at all the empty houses you can't interact with. Always just the illusion of exploration.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

So they just unlocked sort of a pre-Junon part of the game in the Rebirth demo. I suspect to show us how open world it is. It's pretty much just like I thought/feared. It's just the same old "go from one end of the corridor to the other to continue to the next story bit/FMV" playbook since FFX by a bit of enclosed shoreline next to Under Junon. Yay, look at all the empty houses you can't interact with. Always just the illusion of exploration.

That sounds so lame. In a way I guess I am glad that the FF7 remakes don't interest me because it saves me from having to buy a PS 5. FF7 is my favorite game of all time.

[Allio]

With Rebirth out I decided that this would be a perfect chance to jump into the final fantasy world with the new 7 trilogy. Finished up “remake” and honestly was pretty fun. I even got around to watching Advent Children yesterday (already had seen a summary of the original FF7 so i wasn’t lost.) going to need to play through the INTERmission campaign, but after that I’ll start in rebirth next week.

[Andrew NDB]

I even got around to watching Advent Children yesterday

You should technically wait until after you play through all of FF7 before watching that. And what a horrible "movie" that was. Just an extended J-Pop music video with nonsensical garbage filling the screen with every passing moment. It squandered its huge opportunity to actually patch FF7's biggest problem with not having a proper ending.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

You should technically wait until after you play through all of FF7 before watching that. And what a horrible "movie" that was. Just an extended J-Pop music video with nonsensical garbage filling the screen with every passing moment. It squandered its huge opportunity to actually patch FF7's biggest problem with not having a proper ending.
I thought the ending in the original FF7 worked pretty well.

[Andrew NDB]

I thought the ending in the original FF7 worked pretty well.

The developers didn't, and apologized profusely for that when the game originally came out.

[CyberCubed]

I'm 60 hours into FF Rebirth, it's good. Some parts of the open world are very dated, but otherwise the gameplay is great and the pacing/story is great. Full 3D towns, open world to travel in, some good sidequests.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm 60 hours into FF Rebirth, it's good. Some parts of the open world are very dated, but otherwise the gameplay is great and the pacing/story is great. Full 3D towns, open world to travel in, some good sidequests.

I have to agree. This is a beautiful and fun game, just 3 hours or so into it. It's way more fun than FF XVI to play. It's just very enjoyable to go into battle with these characters and everything is top notch. You can even swim now.

I suspect my only big gripe will be when we get to "fly" the airship. I haven't seen anything on how that works yet. But let me guess.... the FFX school again of pick a destination from a list or a map and fast travel there?

[CyberCubed]

I'm 81 hours in and up to the second to last chapter. I did all sidequests and world intel on the open world. Only thing I didn't do was all the optional Queens Blood card matches, but I may do that later. Also as usual there's a bunch of endgame Chadley VR fights and Colosseum/tournament battles to do, I'll save that for the end of the story.

I was not expecting this game to be this long. The first game took about 56 hours to finish (I beat it twice and finished the same time more or less), but this game could easily push 100 hours trying to do everything. I was not expecting a 100 hour game.

[CyberCubed]

Well after 100 hours and 32 minutes, I'm done with the game. Did all sidequests, most minigames to completion, all world intel on the map, all Queens Blood matches, all romances/dates, all the VR battle simulations besides the Hard mode ones.

If you're curious as to where the game ends, it ends at a place most predicted:

It ends where in the original 1997 game Sephrioth kills Aerith. This game goes a little further but stops around there after that dungeon.

The third game will have Wutai and the whole last 1/3rd of the original FF7, while also letting us revisit everything in this game flying over. Vincent and Cid aren't playable this time around but they join your party for the cutscenes.

[Andrew NDB]

Interesting. Yeah, if the third game actually lets you pilot the airship around to all the existing areas from Remake and Rebirth, maybe adding in a few new quests for them, that'd be an impressive feat.

And I read that the retcon with Aerith is that yeah, she still dies from getting skewered by Sephiroth... but now there's some kind of alternate timeline existing simultaneously where she's still alive and with Zack?

[CyberCubed]

Yeah basically.

There's multiple timelines/universes, ones where Aerith lives and ones she doesn't, and Zack is from one of those alternate timelines you see in the prologue with Aerith and Cloud in a wheelchair that aren't "our" Cloud and Aerith.

Basically there's a whole multiverse of Aerith's and only she, Cloud and Sephrioth know about it. Tifa and the others have no idea.

[Andrew NDB]

Do they offer any explanation for exactly what the waves of ghostly specter people are from Remake? I guess I assumed they were some kind of multi-dimensional force that came over from the original FF7 dimension into the Remake one, and wanted to save Aerith's life but I guess that theory is out now.

[Allio]

Finished up the main story of Rebirth (outside of the Gilgamesh stuff.) honestly enjoyed ot even though it does fall into the trappings of open world games still had a fun time. It was a *itch and a half trying to deal with “the end of nigh” of Sephiroth, just for whatever reason I just couldn’t get enough damage off after breaking his stamina. Though I just ended up saving up limit break. Still, I had fun.

Will give it a couple of days before I start Crisis Core Reunion.

[Andrew NDB]

Will give it a couple of days before I start Crisis Core Reunion.

I got that one. It sucks. Sooooo repetitive and the story is barely there.

[CyberCubed]

In the final boss battle of the game:

An alternate Aerith actually comes into your party to fight alongside Cloud against Sephrioth

It seems Square wanted to both stick to the original game story but still change things at the same time, so they wound up doing both things? I mean it's hard to say how any of this will end up because the third game could do anything.

The first game came out in 2020 and the second in 2024, so we're probably in for another 4 year wait till 2028 for the final game. Maybe 2027 if we're lucky since they can re-use assets from this game. I just wonder if the last game will be a PS5 game or we'll have to wait till PS6.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm reminded how dumb this battle system is. I just fought a floating boss you can barely hit that requires you to do a lot of magic... but you can't do anything in this game (as in, cast anything) unless you hit an opponent at least a few times first. So it's just an exercise in futility.

[CyberCubed]

Cloud can shoot beams from his sword now against all flying enemies by holding it down, they changed this from the first game.

[Andrew NDB]

Cloud can shoot beams from his sword now against all flying enemies by holding it down, they changed this from the first game.

Gottit. Yeah. He does.

Just finished the main Costa Del Sol part. Wow. What an amazing bit of fun that was. I really can't say enough about how enjoyable this all was. And it doesn't force you to do these stupid little mini-games, or at least win them. But the experience is amazing. Apparently I'm already 21 hours in.

A thought popped into my head as all of the ladies got into their swimsuits. I wonder if all of this "Remake" business is a way to circumvent modern day politics. Because modern games have a push to make people look fatter and uglier. There's a war on beauty in almost everything. And having played through FFXVI, which even while you have multiple outfits for the main character's girlfriend, all of them are super covered and her features are pretty nominal. I think "FFVII Remake/Rebirth" is a way to circumvent that for the Japanese. Like, "Hey, hey, hey, quiet that noise... we're not glamorizing beauty, we're just remaking this game from 1997!" Either way, loving it.

[CyberCubed]

The Japanese don't care, they sexualize underage girls all the time in anime and videogames. In FF7 Tifa is 20 and Aerith is 22/23, but Yuffie is only 16 and she's in a swimsuit the same way. But the main two girls are in their early 20's.

A lot of other RPG's or anime always use teenage protagonists, so as a result, you're going to see a lot of 15-16 year old teen girls in swimsuits or suggestive outfits in a lot of videogames or anime from Japan. I guess people didn't care too much about this 20 years ago because people were closer in age to the characters, but now that everyone is 30-40+ years old it feels a bit odd.

One of the reasons Tifa became popular in 1997 was for the same reason Lara Croft became popular back then, she was a girl with huge breasts in the earliest 3D games when videogames were just starting to become "realistic" for the first time.

[Andrew NDB]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1VkAAOSwW61e~o-J/s-l1600.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Yuffie_Kisaragi.png

Am I the only one who thought Yuffie had a prosthetic leg in the original FF VII? I thought it was kind of endearing. And she'd kind of wobble when she did her victory spin on that leg.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1VkAAOSwW61e~o-J/s-l1600.jpg

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6a/Yuffie_Kisaragi.png

Am I the only one who thought Yuffie had a prosthetic leg in the original FF VII? I thought it was kind of endearing. And she'd kind of wobble when she did her victory spin on that leg.
To be honest I was never quite sure what was going on with her leg.

[Andrew NDB]

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Jesus...

[CyberCubed]

Tifa and the others have a little anime-ish look to them so they don't quite look realistic but not as completely anime-designed as Cloud is.

Barret in terms of his face probably looks the most like a "real person." It's like how a lot of the background NPC's look like normal people from our world and then all the anime designs are the major characters.

[Andrew NDB]

Let me just say it is really, really fun the pockets of time the game let's you play as Tifa.

[Andrew NDB]

Wow, I'm about 49 hours into things and I'm just now going to the Nibelheim reactor with Tifa and Yuffie. I feel like there is easily about 20 or so hours worth of mini-games and sidequests I've ignored, even having done a decent amount along the way that didn't divert me too much. This is supremely fun and involved, but I'd still say a little bit... well, it's weird. It SEEMS like it wants you to explore and find stuff, but like everything Square does now, they don't trust the gamer. Even just wandering around, little chocobo babies show up to guide you by the hand to Chocobo transit sites, and as you're getting close to Materia areas loud magical owls show up to literally lead you to the exact entrance in the same manner. Like, c'mon. Let us explore and figure out sh** on our own.

It also kinda seems like different teams were assigned to create different chapters here. It's weird that, for example, all the tools you get to rappel across a certain factory at a certain time suddenly go away when you leave and are never mentioned again while they'd seem super useful later on.

[CyberCubed]

The game definitely has an extra 50+ hours for all the sidequests and world intel stuff. Sure it's all optional, but you're missing out on a lot of good story scenes if you skip the regular green sidequests. I did them all as soon as they became available in each region before moving on. I also did all the world intel on the map I could get to in time, although some I had to wait for later or look up a guide to find out how to get to some.

I didn't do any of the optional Queens Blood matches till the end of the game though. It's best to wait for the end for that, as you'll have a better deck of cards and stronger cards to use than while playing through the game.

[Andrew NDB]

I didn't do any of the optional Queens Blood matches till the end of the game though. It's best to wait for the end for that, as you'll have a better deck of cards and stronger cards to use than while playing through the game.

I'm still not entirely sure I know what I'm doing when I play Queen's Blood. When I try to use anything but the Starter Pack, I'll maybe be able to make one move then I have to keep forfeiting my turn until I lose because I can't make any additional ones.

[CyberCubed]

I didn't understand Queens blood fully till the end of the game. I learned by watching the CPU play and seeing what they were doing, I had no idea you could place cards on top of each other on your own side to raise your score. All you have to do is get a higher number on your side for the 3 columns total (you don't have to have all 3 winning, but at least 2 of the 3 helps).

I wouldn't bother doing most of them till the post-game. Then you can buy all the best cards at the shops and re-arrange your whole deck. It's too hard to beat a lot of the CPU right now going through the story.

[Andrew NDB]

I'll probably do it on an eventual New Game+. And I don't think having quality cards is the problem... I've made Decks with new cards I find or buy as I go along, but always the same problem -- I can't make any moves after a certain point. During the big Costa boat ride tournament I was only able to beat the first lady opponent and then I couldn't win against Tifa or Aerith and gave up. I think I just don't have a good idea of what mix of cards constitutes "a good deck." Because there's a big element of "chance" that comes up.

Now Triple Triad from VIII... now there's a good FF card game. Tetra Master from IX, much less so.

[Andrew NDB]

About 62 hours in now. This Temple of the Ancients business is really overstaying its welcome. I've spent like 4 or 5 hours on it the past 3 days and we're still in it (I just saved after everybody reunites and we get what I'm assuming is the last "A Few Hours Ago" with Aerith, Yuffie and Red XIII). It's too much. They could have cut this "stage" in half.

[Andrew NDB]

Finished it. It's all well and good but boy that's super disjointed for the last few hours. Like right when you get free roam with the boat (for which you're given a grand total of 1 quest to do on the water) the next question you're asked is "Are you sure you want to disembark? Because this is it." And it is. Get ready to spend the next 8 hours in basically a movie mode. Not happy about that at all.

[CyberCubed]

You could have done some of the sidequests inbetween there which is what they warn you about. The game ends where many predicted it would (where Aerith dies in the original), so the final game will cover the entire rest of the original.

Or you can go do sidequests now as the next game is probably a good 3-4 years away at the minimum.

[Andrew NDB]

You could have done some of the sidequests inbetween there which is what they warn you about. The game ends where many predicted it would (where Aerith dies in the original), so the final game will cover the entire rest of the original.

They kind of robbed her death of a lot of impact the way they did it. Yeah, she dies... but as we're seeing that we see another dimension where the sword doesn't have blood on it. And Sephiroth going on about uniting dimensions and such the whole while... I'm frankly not sure she's actually dead, or going to stay dead in this in the next one.

Or you can go do sidequests now as the next game is probably a good 3-4 years away at the minimum.

Oh, I'll eventually do a New Game + runthrough and do that. Probably after it's time to play Remake again.

[Andrew NDB]

Holy moley... I'm getting my wish. FF VII Reunion (that's what I'm guessing FFVII Remake III will be called) will allow you to completely fly around the map and freely. "No cutting corners." Seeing is believing but that's great to hear.

https://wccftech.com/final-fantasy-vii-remake-part-3-story-completed/

I don't think we've even been able to fly an airship since FF IX.

[CyberCubed]

They'll really need to make some more sidequests to make revisiting all the old towns worth it, because otherwise it's kinda pointless. Half the game was in the second game after all but all the story parts of those areas were done already.

[Andrew NDB]

They'll really need to make some more sidequests to make revisiting all the old towns worth it,

Hey, if there's more than 0 then that's already more than the original game. I don't remember the original FF VII making you backtrack to old towns for any quests or anything. In fact, later games like VIII and IX, after you change to a CD at a certain point a lot of old towns would be locked out entirely.

[Andrew NDB]

Old news now, but:

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So basically it is reconfirmed that yes, you do get to pilot the airship anywhere and revisit everywhere from Remake and Rebirth by basically parachuting from it and then gliding down to where you want to land (kind of like Fortnite). But then how do you re-board it? Climbing a really, really, really long rope?