Why the Snyder-cut will disappoint you.

[TommyT]

Good. You clicked. I mean how could you not, right? How F'n DARE he say anything against Snyder!

So, why am I so confident? It's simple, but I'm going to spoiler tag it, just to give you one last chance, one last opportunity, to avert your eyes, and not be sullied by the dank truth.

Still curious? Okay, but I warn you, it's not an easy truth. Most people won't have thought this through, so you'll have the insider scoop. You will be in the know long before the vast majority of Snyderverse supporters.

You're going to be absolutely, fundamentally, maybe even physically rocked by this.

I was going to drop a few hints earlier, but it might be more impactful as a surprise.

Ok, get hyped. This is clearly far to long of a build up.
Now, no more games, at long last, the reason you read everything up until now.
Here we go. The reason...IS...

...Your expectations are already set to high.

[ZariusTwo]

Leo's gonna kill you

[TommyT]

:lol:

C'mon , we're all thinking it. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It can't be more disappointing to me than the Whedon cut.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

It can't be more disappointing to me than the Whedon cut.

Basically this.

My expectations aren't super high for what is most likely gonna be an incomplete film, but its ludicrous to think that it's gonna be worse than the Theatrical cut.

[TommyT]

Nobody wants to be disappointed, but the hype machine will not allow for that.
Prediction : Game of Thrones Season 8, redux.

[Turo602]

The thing that nobody seems to get is that no movie is guaranteed to be good. If you didn't like his previous 2 films, you're most likely not gonna like his Justice League film either. But whether or not it's great isn't the reason for the hype. People just simply want the chance to watch what it was before the studio interfered and changed everything. I just want to see what the f*ck WB robbed us of and if it's great, great, but if it sucks, at least we got to see it. Besides, even if it does suck, it's not like people aren't gonna be clipping the sh*t out of it online like they do BvS and the Batman warehouse fight scene and other spectacular looking shots and sequences.

[TommyT]

The hype is always the best part. Look at what happened to Star Wars, both with the Prequels, and the Disneyverse.

You people, you are never, ever, ever, ever satisfied when over-hyped.

[Turo602]

The hype is always the best part. Look at what happened to Star Wars, both with the Prequels, and the Disneyverse.

You people, you are never, ever, ever, ever satisfied when over-hyped.

Star Wars isn't exactly a good example of overhype ruining an experience. You can't feed people sh*t with flies still flying around it and then say "well you just didn't like it because you were overhyped."

[ZariusTwo]

The problem is when things start to leak and those caught in the hype can't resist reading every detail and form an opinion of what they expect the film to be like, then they go see the movie, they know everything that's going on, and it colours their view. The hype's not there, so you have to think more like a critic and not a fanboy.

[TommyT]

Star Wars isn't exactly a good example of overhype ruining an experience. You can't feed people sh*t with flies still flying around it and then say "well you just didn't like it because you were overhyped."

Oh, you mean like deconstructing an archetype to create a postmodernist tale for today's audience?

“We learned that people don't like seeing their heroes deconstructed.” (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/justice-league-batman-v-superman-mistakes)

Debora Snyder, on course correction for Justice League.

[Turo602]

Oh, you mean like deconstructing an archetype to create a postmodernist tale for today's audience?

“We learned that people don't like seeing their heroes deconstructed.” (https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2016/06/justice-league-batman-v-superman-mistakes)

Debora Snyder, on course correction for Justice League.

So we both agree it's not overhype?

[TommyT]

So we both agree it's not overhype?

It's 100% overhype.

[Turo602]

It's 100% overhype.

Or people know what they like and what they think is sh*t.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

The thing that nobody seems to get is that no movie is guaranteed to be good. If you didn't like his previous 2 films, you're most likely not gonna like his Justice League film either. But whether or not it's great isn't the reason for the hype. People just simply want the chance to watch what it was before the studio interfered and changed everything. I just want to see what the f*ck WB robbed us of and if it's great, great, but if it sucks, at least we got to see it. Besides, even if it does suck, it's not like people aren't gonna be clipping the sh*t out of it online like they do BvS and the Batman warehouse fight scene and other spectacular looking shots and sequences.

My thoughts as well. At the very least, it will be consistant.

[TommyT]

Or people know what they like and what they think is sh*t.

Wow, wanna pull my hair next? LOL, it's over hype. the product won't match expectations. It's not possible. It's still the same shittastic film, but there will just be more of it, desaturated, dull. The bones were still there in the theatrical release, and it wasn't great. Basically, it's the same damned book, but it's going to have a few new chapters, and will be published in Helvetica instead of comics sans.

The lip, the redsky, the jokes, sure those were bad, but it wasn't like the film sitting around it was some sort of masterpiece.

[Leo656]

Obvious Bait Thread is Obvious.

We're not THIS bored, are we? C'mon.

[TommyT]

LOL, OF COURSE i'm pushing the dudes buttons. Self serious people are the best.

But it's true, none the less. You all will feel that horrible deep disappointment. There's no way not to, without, well, some kind of opiate.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Wow, wanna pull my hair next? LOL, it's over hype. the product won't match expectations. It's not possible. It's still the same shittastic film, but there will just be more of it, desaturated, dull. The bones were still there in the theatrical release, and it wasn't great. Basically, it's the same damned book, but it's going to have a few new chapters, and will be published in Helvetica instead of comics sans.

The lip, the redsky, the jokes, sure those were bad, but it wasn't like the film sitting around it was some sort of masterpiece.

Jokes on you buddy. I enjoyed Snyder's trilogy

[TommyT]

Jokes on you buddy. I enjoyed Snyder's trilogy

And I haven't passed out the IQ tests yet. Guess there's no need now.

[Turo602]

LOL, OF COURSE i'm pushing the dudes buttons. Self serious people are the best.

But it's true, none the less. You all will feel that horrible deep disappointment. There's no way not to, without, well, some kind of opiate.

It's funny that you think you're pushing anyone's buttons. You'd have to be clever to do that.

[Leo656]

Yeah, people who speak for others are always the most self-important.

Ah well. Again, Obvious Bait Thread Is Obvious. Also pointless.
We've had at least four "I hate Zack Snyder" threads over the years and they all get locked for being a complete waste of time and only existing in the first place to start fights.

So yeah, good job I guess?

[TommyT]

Yeah, people who speak for others are always the most self-important.

Ah well. Again, Obvious Bait Thread Is Obvious. Also pointless.
We've had at least four "I hate Zack Snyder" threads over the years and they all get locked for being a complete waste of time and only existing in the first place to start fights.

So yeah, good job I guess?

So you do work with the Mods to decide what is and is not acceptable.
Interesting, and so long as it doesn't offend you, it's fine.

I love the veiled threat. That's so sweet.

[Leo656]

I don't "work with" anyone and I wasn't threatening you. I was pointing out, these threads serve no purpose, thus are always locked because the fighting is inevitable. It was going on long before you got here.

If you're concerned about repercussions, I'd ask why the bait thread. You did say you were just tweaking people on purpose. Well, those threads get shut down. Not my rule. Do I support the rule? Yes, absolutely. But it's not mine, nor are the decisions about threads being locked and people being Banned. All that happens way, way above me.

Haven't reported anyone, haven't alerted anyone, wasn't planning to, but I'm just saying: Someone will eventually. Because this thread is a sh*t-stirring waste of time.

I, personally, do not, have not, and will never understand why some people want to bait people into arguments. I'd ask you to enlighten me on why you occasionally act like that, despite also being insightful elsewhere, but I get the feeling that we're two very, very different people. So you could explain it, but I probably wouldn't understand it. I don't get the "Tee-hee, I'm gonna annoy someone" thing no matter who does it. I know, I'm bad at being an "Internet Person" because schadenfreude doesn't make me giggle. Can't help it, it's just how I'm wired.

So yeah, not a threat, a prediction based on historical fact. Actual JL movie conversation is happening in its designated thread. This thread is simply flame bait. If me pointing that out upsets you, maybe refrain from posting flame bait? That'd be my suggestion.

[TommyT]

It's simple. This is really really really dumb.

It happens over and over again, The Nerds and fansboys get all crazy hyped, then, the watch what ever "thing"They couldn't wait to see, then get all pissey because it didn't measure up to what ever idiotic standard was set for they, and sometimes, by them.

And it's hillarious, when you take the long view and see just how easily manipulated everyone is. It's happening again, and again. I can't name a single "EVENT" film of the last 10 years that hasn't suffered from Hype hangover.

So why do this? Welllll if you actually do LOVE this thing, (I might not, but I get the feeling you all do) Maybe, watch yourselves, on what you expect, or what they feed you, because pretty much everything that was expected to be a success, and for whatever insipid reason didn't meet with expectations, it doesn't just underperform and continue, the crowd becomes a MOB and tries to KILL the brand, often successfully.

So yeah, I'm putting money down 10-1 odds that the hatelash after the fact is gonna be massive, because the tease has been going on for far too long.

10-1 odds.

[Leo656]

It needed its own entire thread, and not a one-off "I don't think this thing's gonna match the hype" comment in the designated space for it? Because the latter is acceptable, the former is a transparent bid for attention.

With literally any other movie, someone simply goes into the thread for that movie, and if they think "It's not gonna match the hype", they say that. Then they leave. Then people talk about it. You don't start threads like "Why People Who Loved 'Birds of Prey' Don't Shave Their Legs" or "Why Enjoying 'Thor: Ragnarok' Means You Draw With Crayons" unless you're trying to do damage. That's obvious bait sh*t.

Fundamentally, I agree with you that MOST things don't match their hype, regardless of what they are. That's why I love Spoilers. It's a scientific fact that people enjoy things more when they know exactly what they're getting beforehand (and also, that most people deny this Provably True Fact because they don't want to be lumped into A Group). So you're not altogether wrong: This Thing, like MOST things, has a good chance of disappointing some people if they set their own personal standards too high. Not disagreeing with that theory.

But starting a whole new thread about it is Bait Sh*t. Taking shots at people who have the audacity to say they liked the earlier films is Bait Sh*t.

A person with tact would go into the actual thread for the movie - any movie, doesn't matter - and say "I don't think it's gonna live up to the hype". All This? Like I said... must have been a really slow day.

[Shark_Blade]

I don't care what pessimist say. Life is so full of potential to be so negative.

[TommyT]

It needed its own entire thread, and not a one-off "I don't think this thing's gonna match the hype" comment in the designated space for it? Because the latter is acceptable, the former is a transparent bid for attention.


I need love like anyone else, glass house. :lol:

And yeah, it does need its own thread. it's not justice league specific, it's EVERY damned THING.

We're expectant jagg offs, and we are starting to ruin everything.

[Leo656]

I need love like anyone else, glass house. :lol:

And yeah, it does need its own thread. it's not justice league specific, it's EVERY damned THING.

Again, it's a point I wholeheartedly agree on, fundamentally. I just think the specific way you've framed and presented the conversation with the example you've chosen to lead with can only lead to Very Bad Things based on past precedent in this specific environment.

But you're right, most things are over-hyped and most people are very disappointed when those things don't meet their expectations. And that, by itself, is a discussion worth having. I just think the presentation of the point was needlessly inflammatory on purpose, that's all.

Were I inclined to instigate that conversation, I would have just started a thread about most things in pop-culture being over-hyped, and then used this film as a potential example within the body of the text as a supporting statement rather than the Thread Title (We won't know for sure until it exists as a reality rather than an idea, after all).

I, personally, would not have come out swinging with, "That thing you're looking forward to is gonna suck" and then gear-shifted into saying "But just because That's How Most Things Go". Subtle distinction, maybe, but one that can dictate the entire course of a conversation, just the same. How you lead into a conversation generally dictates how that conversation is gonna go.

As for this movie? I've followed the production of the film(s) closer than anyone here, so I'm Spoiled Rotten. I know exactly what's in it (more or less), and the only way I personally could be let down is if they accidentally left the lens cap on for all of Act III. Might other people's own high expectations let them down? Sure, probably. But like you said... that's true of absolutely everything.

[TommyT]

But you're right, most things are over-hyped and most people are very disappointed when those things don't meet their expectations. And that, by itself, is a discussion worth having. I just think the presentation of the point was needlessly inflammatory on purpose, that's all.

Were I inclined to instigate that conversation, I would have just started a thread about most things in pop-culture being over-hyped, and then used this film as a potential example within the body of the text as a supporting statement rather than the Thread Title


Yeah, except to make a point, where you know, the culprit is also the audience, you need a crazy wacky gimmick. You know about gimmicks right? We all love a good gimmick, cause frank conversation is sooooo boo boo yucky.

I mean cops have always been dicks, racism has been sorta a thing forever, but you only get to burn down your city and destroy personal or public property when theres a symbol to rally around, even when it has almost nothing at all to do wit you.

Anyway, I tap-danced a little, cause like, if they’re not bright enough to know they’re once again heading down the same freaking path, hand holding is required.

So dinner and a show, a little do ya hear me now, and here we are.
And sure, we could have put this whole exchange into the other thread, derailing it and irritating the other members, but I thought, nah, maybe I’ll drop this and those interested in this topic can have a giggity gander.


I, personally, would not have come out swinging with, "That thing you're looking forward to is gonna suck" and then gear-shifted into saying "But just because That's How Most Things Go". Subtle distinction, maybe, but one that can dictate the entire course of a conversation, just the same. How you lead into a conversation generally dictates how that conversation is gonna go.

Dudes with ironic mullets do not get to chastise others about personal decisions.

[Leo656]

I probably would have doubled-down on the bait while avoiding citing any specific film title in the Topic, and come up with something like, "Why People Who Avoid Spoilers Like The Plague Are Inevitably Disappointed By Their Own Expectations, And Also, They Deserve It."

That way you get all the joy of making inflammatory (but true) blanket statements about people while still casting a broad enough net so as not to appear as though you're only tweaking "some" people.

Because again, your broad point about people's too-high expectations for any and all entertainment - which is one I strongly agree with - threatens to be overshadowed by the inevitable bickering about the specific film you've chosen to include as the basis for your "thesis". If/When it just becomes another "Snyder Movies Suck"/"No They Don't I Like Them" thread, then your point about expectations in general gets lost in the wind and the whole thing is for naught, anyways.

Your larger point is valid. Your broaching of the topic, however, was clumsy, and threatens to dilute that point entirely. You assume that people will GET your larger point, rather than jump at a chance to bicker about something they've already been bickering about for 5 years. That assumes a lot about the people here, all of it more than most of them deserve, I hate to say.

Nobody's gonna get your point. They're just gonna say "Ohhh! Another Snyder Sucks Thread!" and light another match. Kinda suspect you knew that, but I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and allow that you were "just" trying to make a broad point in ostentatious fashion. I still don't think it was the best way to present the conversation, but that's me, I've been doing this a while.
------------

Unprovoked personal attacks aside, it can't be an "ironic" choice if the person actually looks better that way, guy. Good for you on coming out on the winning end of the "Awkward Head-To-Neck Ratio" Sweepstakes, I'm proud of you. God simply doesn't favor all of us so highly.

Also? The cheap shots don't do anything to help your previous case that this wasn't a Bait Thread.

I'll give you a dollar if you man up and say, "I was just bored today and just felt like kicking some sh*t." Honesty is always admirable. You almost had me on the "I was just trying to start a talk" bit, but now you're receding from that. My gut instincts are always correct.

Lemme know how you want that dollar. I have a lot of loose change at the moment, if that suits you. I need paper money for buying weed.

[Andrew NDB]

We already have a pretty good idea of what it'll be like from clues dropped when they were originally shooting and things we learned later.

Superman is resurrected in a black suit, but 90% of the movie he is under the control of the bad guys. Everything else structurally is about the same (but not tonally) except for a Darkseid cameo at the end to foreshadow Justice League Part 2, which we know we'll never get so it'll be a cliffhanger we'll never get any resolution for.

I mean, I'll take that over what we got. But it kind of can't be anything but disappointing, by the nature of it.

[Leo656]

We already have a pretty good idea of what it'll be like from clues dropped when they were originally shooting and things we learned later.

Superman is resurrected in a black suit, but 90% of the movie he is under the control of the bad guys. Everything else structurally is about the same (but not tonally) except for a Darkseid cameo at the end to foreshadow Justice League Part 2, which we know we'll never get so it'll be a cliffhanger we'll never get any resolution for.

I mean, I'll take that over what we got. But it kind of can't be anything but disappointing, by the nature of it.

You're entangling the plots of this one with what was going to be the plot of JL2. JL2 was the "Dark Timeline" stuff with Superman under Darkseid's thrall for part of it. JL1 was only going to foreshadow it again via Cyborg's interfacing with the Mother Boxes.

It's okay, not your fault, the internet does not do a very good job of delineating the various bits of information that have come out. They constantly mix up what was going to be in JL1 and JL2 and they also report a lot of rumors and half-truths as fact, so it's not surprising that people get confused.

But yeah, "Recovery Suit Superman" is in JL1. "Superman Enthralled By the Anti-Life Equation For Half The Movie" was JL2. Just to clarify once and for all.

They might condense bits of it down into one movie now, but that's always how it was supposed to go down.

[TommyT]

I probably would have doubled-down...

Look, I honestly just want you to cut your hair. You know the Mullet is just detracting from the whole package. It’s not an attack, its a statement of fact.

Mullets fundamentally undermine credibility. On anybody, anytime, anywhere.
It’s not personal.

[TommyT]

Also, yes I am impossibly bored, but also, yes I feel like this hype is just the preshow to the shitshow, and we have only had shitshows. Somebody just said that Infinity war and Endgame were kinda “meh”, which, sure the latter had boring bits, but by contrast to 90’s Captain America, like, what was expected?

Snyder isn’t my flavor, but I’m ok with that. He also isn’t making mindless CW crap, so ok, fine, this is somebody’s favorite thing cool.

But this poisonous hype machine is breaking all the IP’s, like Mario smashing bricks for coins, and we are totally complicit.

No, this will not be the best movie of all time, its a dime piece, but, close your eyes, until the show begins- it might be a great time, so long as you ignore the stretch marks and just let her do her thang.

So I am this bored, that the analogies are all mixed, in a vain attempt to entertain myself instead of watching, literally, the world burn.

[Leo656]

You underestimate the amount of money and social status I've gained in my chosen field simply BECAUSE of the hair, sir. Minus that, I'm just another short guy. With it, I get to mingle with the rich and famous. But then, you're not in that particular field, so the nuances of how to navigate it are probably lost on the laymen. You're probably better off anyway.

Don't let your personal hang-ups on others' appearances blind you to the fact that many people only succeed at anything in life because they stand out in a crowd. Sure, I have a big personality, but personality isn't what starts a conversation, looks are.

You're allowed to have an opinion. Meanwhile, hot drunk girls like to fawn over my hair and try to grab my penis. I could give all of that up in exchange for the approval of random strangers I'll never meet, but... nah, I'm in a good place. :lol:

I also spent the dollar I promised you at Walmart. Did you know the game "Upwords" is back?! I didn't! But I sure do now! It's like Scrabble for people who think fourth-dimensionally!

[TommyT]

You have Sampson syndrome? Really?

They grab your dick because you are you dude.
But you already knew that.

[Leo656]

I'unno, they usually SAY it's the hair. I'm not inclined to think they're lying. Chicks like to run their fingers through it. This is not a new phenomenon. That's why people who sing in bands get laid a lot more than guys who went to law school. The latter enjoy an overall greater degree of life stability but they don't get anywhere near the same quality or quantity of pussy unless they pay for it.

Que Sera Sera, I guess.

[TommyT]

I'unno, they usually SAY it's the hair. I'm not inclined to think they're lying. Chicks like to run their fingers through it. This is not a new phenomenon. That's why people who sing in bands get laid a lot more than guys who went to law school. The latter enjoy an overall greater degree of life stability but they don't get anywhere near the same quality or quantity of pussy unless they pay for it.

Que Sera Sera, I guess.

Lawyers get plenty. Trust me. Money talks.

Do you think Snyder will put the beard and mullet on Cavil? I have a feeling he will.

Wait, is this the real reason you're so hyped? Did I stumble backwards over the truth?

[TommyT]

Alright how do we pivot back to the real issue. The overhype that kills our favorite things.

Here, a peace offering:
https://i.imgur.com/smZN86D.jpg

Happy birthday Jukka.

Is it wise to shiton people, and their excitement, as a way of inoculating them against overhype? Is there a vaccine against the inevitable nerd rage aftermath?

[Leo656]

Do you think Snyder will put the beard and mullet on Cavil? I have a feeling he will.


He didn't film it, so no, probably not. It wouldn't really be in service to anything significant so I kind of don't see the point in CGI-ing a fake beard and long hair.

Frankly, much as I generally love Snyder's deference to the comics, his slavish devotion to the Black Recovery Suit slightly irritates me by itself. Not that there's anything wrong with it, it's from the books so it should be in there. He and I agree on that, and he and I agree that it's a fun visual to play around with. If I made the movie, absolutely, Black Recovery Suit. It's canon, it needs to be there.

BUT, when one of the biggest points of "criticism" in these movies is that "The Blue Isn't Blue Enough", dressing Superman in black for even two minutes is just going to give people more to whine about and they've already whined plenty. Nobody cares about the context if they never read the comics, they just see him in black and think it's just "Being Edgy for Edgy's Sake", nevermind that it's canon. So even though I'M thrilled to see the Recovery Suit, at the end of the day it's just one more thing for people to bitch about so I kinda selfishly wish he didn't choose to die on that hill. But that just comes from a personal place of being tired of people nitpicking Every Single Thing to death without even understanding the context of these choices, nor caring to.

But yeah, anyways, no, he didn't film anything with long hair or a beard so I highly doubt it. In 1993 people thought your hair kept growing after you were dead; in 2020, we have Google, so we know better. Black Suit is canon, leave that in. The other stuff need not be adhered to quite so strictly.
------------

Awesome Teela art, now I gotta go masturbate. :lol:

[TommyT]

Do you think he'll bring in Injustice?

https://th.bing.com/th/id/OIP.lchcJM9Y19MqPr_Uaotx5gHaHC?pid=Api&rs=1

[The Deadman]

LOL, OF COURSE i'm pushing the dudes buttons. Self serious people are the best.

But it's true, none the less. You all will feel that horrible deep disappointment. There's no way not to, without, well, some kind of opiate.

Or you take this **** way too seriously.

[Coola Yagami]

In 1993 people thought your hair kept growing after you were dead; in 2020, we have Google, so we know better.



So THAT'S why they did that.

[Leo656]

Yeah, they admitted way later on it was just "Bad Science".

Of course, there were other factors. Everyone except Bruce Wayne was dabbling with letting their hair grow out in the back, by 1993. Nightwing is probably the most iconic, to the point where a lot of people think he looks weird with short hair, now, since he was one of the first ones to rock the mullet and kept it longer than most. :lol: But it was a trend, and at some point they decided they wanted to give Superman a turn. You'll notice that on the cover of Superman #81, he's drawn wearing the black suit BUT he very clearly has short hair, which indicates that the long hair was a very "late-game" decision.

Then there's the after-the-fact retcons that some writers have tried to pull regarding the Death of Superman story, in that "Well, he wasn't really 'dead', just in hibernation", which more than anything, to me, seems like a way of trying to justify the hair. :lol: But Dan Jurgens himself has spoken on the matter several times, both in-story and in interviews, and his perspective has always been "Nope. He was absolutely dead, and he'd have stayed that way if it wasn't for super-advanced Kryptonian technology and a little bit of luck." And he's also copped to the fact that he and the other writers just messed up with the long hair because Bad Science. So I defer to Word of God on that.

I'unno. Not my favorite look, and I can't say I'm sad they got rid of it, but in the context of the day, it made sense. They also wrote Clark as being a bit more "laid back" in that time, wanting to use his second chance at life to loosen up a bit and try new things, so keeping his hair long wasn't entirely out of character in-context. He also frequently bonded with Jimmy over heavy metal music during that time, which was fun. :lol: That was a fun time for the character. He had a real joie de vie after coming back from the dead. Lots of fun stories.

I'm still amazed that they kept him looking like that for like, 3 or 4 years, though. Points for commitment, I guess. :lol:

[AquaParade]

The hype is always the best part. Look at what happened to Star Wars, both with the Prequels, and the Disneyverse.

You people, you are never, ever, ever, ever satisfied when over-hyped.

I find your stance on this odd. "You people" ? Who? There isn't a hive mind.

[TommyT]

I find your stance on this odd. "You people" ?? Who? There isn't a hive mind.

Tell that to the comicsgate pundits of youtube. They write as though the fight for the Snyder cut is akin to ratifying the constitution. The fever is absurd.

It's happening with He-man now, it's happening with Batman to a degree, it's palpable at conventions (pre lockdown). Hard line divisions across the board.

[Leo656]

NEWS FLASH! "Nerds are just the worst, and 'fans' ruin everything!" :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I find your stance on this odd. "You people" ? Who? There isn't a hive mind.

https://www.solvoyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Futile.jpg

[TommyT]

NEWS FLASH! "Nerds are just the worst, and 'fans' ruin everything!" :lol:

You agree.

http://imgur.com/0tkhqkP.gif

[AquaParade]

https://www.solvoyo.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Futile.jpg

:lol:

It's definitely funny when people refer to the dissenting voices of the internet as "you" while trying to understand why said "person" keeps changing their mind. Can't imagine the frustration that would bring.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

The Snyder cut will be the greatest movie of all time and anyone who says otherwise will need to make a future appointment with a psychiatrist

[ProphetofGanja]

...so I kind of don't see the point in CGI-ing a fake beard and long hair.

CGI-ing a fake beard and mullet onto Henry Cavill after they spent all that money CGI-ing out his mustache would just be so ****ing funny to me

Everyone except Bruce Wayne was dabbling with letting their hair grow out in the back, by 1993. Nightwing is probably the most iconic, to the point where a lot of people think he looks weird with short hair, now, since he was one of the first ones to rock the mullet and kept it longer than most. :lol: But it was a trend, and at some point they decided they wanted to give Superman a turn. You'll notice that on the cover of Superman #81, he's drawn wearing the black suit BUT he very clearly has short hair, which indicates that the long hair was a very "late-game" decision.

...

I'unno. Not my favorite look, and I can't say I'm sad they got rid of it, but in the context of the day, it made sense. They also wrote Clark as being a bit more "laid back" in that time, wanting to use his second chance at life to loosen up a bit and try new things, so keeping his hair long wasn't entirely out of character in-context. He also frequently bonded with Jimmy over heavy metal music during that time, which was fun. :lol: That was a fun time for the character. He had a real joie de vie after coming back from the dead. Lots of fun stories.

I'm still amazed that they kept him looking like that for like, 3 or 4 years, though. Points for commitment, I guess. :lol:

Honestly tho, I think Cavill could've pull off the mullet look and not come off as ridiculous. I dunno, maybe I'm just biased cuz of how cool he was in The Witcher.

Also, TommyT, you're the worst

[Leo656]

The Snyder cut will be the greatest movie of all time and anyone who says otherwise will need to make a future appointment with a psychiatrist

WELL, "Young Guns" exists so that's a bit of a high bar, but maaaaaaybe it'll take the Silver medal if we're incredibly lucky. :lol:

CGI-ing a fake beard and mullet onto Henry Cavill after they spent all that money CGI-ing out his mustache would just be so ****ing funny to me



Honestly tho, I think Cavill could've pull off the mullet look and not come off as ridiculous. I dunno, maybe I'm just biased cuz of how cool he was in The Witcher.

Also, TommyT, you're the worst

I think Cavill could probably make anything cool. He's such a swell fella. And charming!

[neatoman]

Fun thing, I found the blu-ray of the Whedon cut for next to nothing yesterday. I haven't bothered getting the movie because I've heard about how much it sucks. Guess now I'll have to watch it...

[Leo656]

People over-sell the Good and Bad in literally every single thing nowadays.

I wouldn't call the Whedon Cut "garbage" as many do, it's just a scab. There's dozens of worse super-hero movies and lots of better ones. Definitely a lot wrong with it but it's harmless in a vacuum. It's just not what it was supposed to be and thus created a lot of its own problems.

I think it's an acceptable way to pass two hours but I'unno if I'll ever watch it again after the "real" movie is available. My copy has some good Special Features and stuff, though. Those are worth revisiting for me even if the Whedon cut of the movie isn't. Big behind-the-scenes nerd.

[TommyT]

And you wonder why I chose this particular film to hold up as an example.

Shitson, just one big joke.

[Andrew NDB]

The Whedon cut is like a sliver above the worst of the MCU movies. Maybe. The reshoot material -- and it's like 80-90% of the film -- is easy to spot and not quality. Plus Affleck came back fat.

From the opening (reshoot scene) with Fat Batman and the Parademons, it was clear something was wrong.

[sdp]

If so much of the movie is Whedon's why didn't he get director credit? Did he really reshoot a lot or not ?

[Leo656]

It was a complicated union/contract thing.

Put simply directors generally can't share credit on a film. Partly for reasons of marketing consistency, as well as out of respect for the fact that the project, at least initially, was Zack's, he got to keep the director's credit, since he had gotten everything started, and had written and directed pretty much an entire movie's worth of material before they shifted gears. Whedon changed enough when he came in to completely overhaul the movie, BUT, he still oversaw less than half of the total footage that was shot between his stuff and Zack's stuff, even though he significantly changed the story and most of the final cut scenes were scenes that he shot. BUT. In terms of "directing" the movie, he did less than half of the total work (despite the final cut containing almost ONLY his work). So he got a story credit instead of a director credit.

That's about the simplest way to explain it. He shot less, but they used more of his stuff than Zacks stuff. But it was technically still "Zack's movie" on a technicality. So Zack gets director credit and Whedon gets story credit. Hope it makes sense. A lot of it has to do with loopholes and how contracts and titles work.

[AquaParade]

I try to avoid hyperbole, but I do think Justice League is especially bad. It's a tie between that and Suicide Squad for worst movies I can remember seeing in recent years. Their quality reminds me of when I catch a glimpse of "The Kardashians" or something while at a friend's place. I'm reminded that they still make content as crappy as I remember from childhood. It's not that all the movies I like are high art, I just think these two are bad enough that they make me feel bad. Just another subjective opinion though, quite honestly.

I'd also agree with Leo that the quality of most movies these days are exaggerated one way or another. The thing is, even in Justice League, I can find plenty to enjoy, if I am willing to. Certain characters, costume designs, maybe bits of music. It's crude to call it trash. Although, then again, the final product certainly is questionable on more than just an artistic standpoint. There's the egregious studio interference to consider.

[Leo656]

It was just such a patchwork quilt of nonsense. I enjoy most of it unironically, like the Superman stuff is good enough to justify it on its own, but I pretty much like everyone in it and the fight scenes are pretty good.

But the Scotch tape is goddamn everywhere and it really breaks my heart, because it didn't have to be SUCH an obvious rush-job (the final product, at least; the final cut was arranged in a panic but they'd been working on the movie for two whole years by then, so the problems they faced at the 11th hour were entirely of the studio's own making).

Even when he stepped away from the project, Zack strongly advised them to push the release back until March of the following year, once he knew how much retooling they were going to do. Pretty sure I heard even Whedon pushed for that. The WB suits wanted their quarterly bonuses, so they stapled the final cut together and rushed it out the door, bad Superman CGI and all. Every single person involved knew it wasn't finished, but they did it anyway.

The WHY of it all, to me, is so much more tragic than the finished product. Frankly, I'm amazed the thing even stands up on its own power, given that it's held up by f*cking toothpicks.

Like, anyone can hate on Snyder's style if they're a person who's simply not into it, but his movies are meticulous, maybe to a fault at times. Every single frame of footage and every note of the score is arranged and assembled to a specific purpose, with absolutely nothing done carelessly, and even if you don't dig his aesthetic, any objective viewer would have to admit that there's a "slickness", a smoothness to his work. "Justice League" is a choppy, borderline ugly film by comparison, with all of its bad CGI and inconsistent framing of shots exposing the hastily spliced-in reshoot footage, despite the oversaturated color palette doing its best to pick up the slack. You can still see the strings.

You go from working with a guy who'll take five years to make a movie if that's what it takes to nail everything down, and then you pivot to just trying to smash parts together and ship it out the door before Christmas. Just a really lousy and unfortunate situation.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I try to avoid hyperbole, but I do think Justice League is especially bad. It's a tie between that and Suicide Squad for worst movies I can remember seeing in recent years. Their quality reminds me of when I catch a glimpse of "The Kardashians" or something while at a friend's place. I'm reminded that they still make content as crappy as I remember from childhood. It's not that all the movies I like are high art, I just think these two are bad enough that they make me feel bad. Just another subjective opinion though, quite honestly.

I'd also agree with Leo that the quality of most movies these days are exaggerated one way or another. The thing is, even in Justice League, I can find plenty to enjoy, if I am willing to. Certain characters, costume designs, maybe bit's of music. It's crude to call it trash. Although, then again, the final product certainly is questionable on more than just an artistic standpoint. There's the egregious studio interference to consider.

I enjoyed Suicide Squad in theaters. It's only on repeat viewings I realized it had serious issues.

Justice League bored me in theaters. Never bothered to watch it again.

[AquaParade]

It was just such a patchwork quilt of nonsense. I enjoy most of it unironically, like the Superman stuff is good enough to justify it on its own, but I pretty much like everyone in it and the fight scenes are pretty good.

But the Scotch tape is goddamn everywhere and it really breaks my heart, because it didn't have to be SUCH an obvious rush-job (the final product, at least; the final cut was arranged in a panic but they'd been working on the movie for two whole years by then, so the problems they faced at the 11th hour were entirely of the studio's own making).

Even when he stepped away from the project, Zack strongly advised them to push the release back until March of the following year, once he knew how much retooling they were going to do. Pretty sure I heard even Whedon pushed for that. The WB suits wanted their quarterly bonuses, so they stapled the final cut together and rushed it out the door, bad Superman CGI and all. Every single person involved knew it wasn't finished, but they did it anyway.

The WHY of it all, to me, is so much more tragic than the finished product. Frankly, I'm amazed the thing even stands up on its own power, given that it's held up by f*cking toothpicks.

Like, anyone can hate on Snyder's style if they're a person who's simply not into it, but his movies are meticulous, maybe to a fault at times. Every single frame of footage and every note of the score is arranged and assembled to a specific purpose, with absolutely nothing done carelessly, and even if you don't dig his aesthetic, any objective viewer would have to admit that there's a "slickness", a smoothness to his work. "Justice League" is a choppy, borderline ugly film by comparison, with all of its bad CGI and inconsistent framing of shots exposing the hastily spliced-in reshoot footage, despite the oversaturated color palette doing its best to pick up the slack. You can still see the strings.

You go from working with a guy who'll take five years to make a movie if that's what it takes to nail everything down, and then you pivot to just trying to smash parts together and ship it out the door before Christmas. Just a really lousy and unfortunate situation.

Yup. The studio bonus ordeal is just classic. Will make for a great geek-culture trivia fact in the coming years.

I think you've hit on one of the reasons I am able to enjoy Zack Snyder's films, despite the personal issues I have with them, and that is the obvious care and love he puts into his work.
First and foremost, I enjoy the visuals, music, and fight scenes, or I'd have to "blow this popsicle stand", but I think the obvious devotion to the final product helps seal the deal.

I enjoyed Suicide Squad in theaters. It's only on repeat viewings I realized it had serious issues.

Justice League bored me in theaters. Never bothered to watch it again.

Funny. I had the opposite experience with those two, but neither help up for me, either way, at the end of the day.

[Leo656]

Squad's fine if you just take it as a romp and don't ask for too much past seeing everyone ham it up.

I can forgive a lot sometimes if the people in the movie are clearly having a good time. Everyone did their character really well, it's just another movie that was kind of clumsily written and then even more clumsily retrofitted into a completely different movie partway through. There was supposed to be a whole subplot at one point surrounding the Mother Boxes being the cause of everything bad that was going on, to more directly foreshadow Justice League. Just one example of several of how the overall project was changed at several key junctures. But again, as entirely its own thing and most likely the most prominent showcase most of these characters are ever going to get in a film, it's a passable way to spend two hours if you're not expecting Shakespeare.

[Coola Yagami]

Gotta love their stupid excuse of 'what is Superman one day decides to start trouble' and their solution is to assemble of group of super VILLIANS that even combined wouldn't have the power to stop an evil Superman anyway.

[TommyT]

I enjoyed Suicide Squad in theaters. It's only on repeat viewings I realized it had serious issues.


So, we?re you drunk or high at the theater? It’s an unwatchable mess, and it took you more than a single viewing to see that?

Maybe Ayer had a better film, when it was his cut, but I’ve seen his other work, and Hack doesn’t even begin to cover it. If he gets to release his version, maybe it will be better, maybe it will be even worse.




Justice League bored me in theaters. Never bothered to watch it again.

You all keep blaming Whedon. Snyder isn’t slick, nor smart, nor interesting. He’s the guy at a party that uses a catch phrase 6 months past it’s expiration date. He’s the guy who’s still listening to puddle of mud, and supports Christian Rock. He’s convinced the smartest thing you can do with Superman is to make him just like anybody else, burdened by his powers. He’s only interested in deconstruction, which is the same sin you’ve all railed against for last jedi.

And again, THIS is why you’ll be disappointed, this is the core of the problem. It didn’t work before, It will not work now, unless of course, you?re spite-liking the thing, to be contrarian.

I mean sure, wear that mantle, and maybe, you’ll convince yourself on the day, that it’s great. Later, in your quiet moments, that feeling will give way, and the realization that you’ve been had will set in.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

blah blah blah

And here I thought the target of this thread was Leo. Lucky me. :tlol:

Swayed by the crowd high at Suicide Squad. It was a pretty fun time in the theater.

I enjoyed around 3/4 of Man of Steel, and 3/5 of Batman V Superman. Never bored in it, either. Personal taste, fella.

[TommyT]

And here I thought the target of this thread was Leo. Lucky me. :tlol:

Swayed by the crowd high at Suicide Squad. It was a pretty fun time in the theater.

I enjoyed around 3/4 of Man of Steel, and 3/5 of Batman V Superman. Never bored in it, either. Personal taste, fella.

You're making my point. Man, you claim a lot of victimization. I'm singling out what you said, because it supports the underlying thesis of the thread, nothing more.

You'd have to be under some kind of influence to objectively think Suicide squad was an intelligible/satisfying story, and you know it.

BVS had a ton of problems, but if what you wanted was an elseworlds story about why humanity is composed of terrible people and terrible things, where even heroes are broken, sloppy, and even drunk, then you got it.

It's an angle, but really boring if you ask me, and honestly, done much better in THE BOYS, so much so that Snyder has nothing left to say. What The Boys did right, was to not label the heroes with known monikers, it was its own thing. Very smart. Bright Burn was more in line with Snyder - violence and action that were boring.

I'll take the plane scene in The Boys, over any other plane scene in any CB movie.

And it wasn't desaturated and cross-processed and ugly and try-hard. It was honest and effective. Snyder can't get there.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

my blushes, Watson

It's okay if you have a hard-on for me. I'm flattered, and it's perfectly understandable.

[AquaParade]

Tommy, I think your attitude towards this whole thing is crappier than any DCEU film. I don't mean to be a jerk - I think you have an interesting perspective to share and can articulate a good point. I think you go about it in the wrong way by acting abrasive and also being a bit arrogant in your opinion. Objectivity in film will only take you so far. It's fine to critique but let people enjoy things.

[TommyT]

Tommy, I think your attitude towards this whole thing is crappier than any DCEU film. I don't mean to be a jerk - I think you have an interesting perspective to share and can articulate a good point. I think you go about it in the wrong way by acting abrasive and also being a bit arrogant in your opinion. Objectivity in film will only take you so far. It's fine to critique but let people enjoy things.

Film enjoyment is subjective, as in "my favorite film is...".
There are objectively bad films. I'm not saying Snyders work is objectively bad, I'm saying, he tried to make a point, and it was sloppy. A few years later, The Boys made that same point, effectively, like a freaking laser.

Look, I get it, they're getting the band back together. That's super exciting for everyone who feel like the ultimate DC film was ripped away from them by the big mean monsters at WB. I think, maybe, what noboy is actually considering, is that it was actually unwatchable. All A list people have a stinker in them, maybe JL was that big stinker.

We've all been on blind dates, set up by well meaning friends who convince us that this one, this one is just the hottest, most incredible , blah blah blah... or I know the BEST hamburger joint, you have to try it... We all have those friends.

He-man is about to go through the same damned thing, only, so far the press has been crapping all over Smith, and nobody's seen a damned thing.
I was there the first time Superman Died, the big news all over TV's everywhere, the book selling millions of copies, only for the incredible backlash to HOW he died.

This folks, is excatly why I say "you people".

[Andrew NDB]

Snyder says that people didn't "get" his DCEU movies.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/snyder-audiences-didnt-get-my-dc-verse/

[ZariusTwo]

Change thread title to 'Why the Snyder Cult will disappoint you'

[Autbot_Benz]

Change thread title to 'Why the Snyder Cult will disappoint you'

It's just funny to laugh how bat **** crazy they are. Especially the ones on twitter.

[Andrew NDB]

Reminds me a lot of Obama, actually. "I can't conceive of any way that anybody wouldn't vote for _________, so it must be my fault for not explaining it well enough to the voters."

No, we got it. 100%. The answer is still NO. When your second movie is The Death of Superman AND The Dark Knight Returns (in the same movie we're meeting Batman for the first time) in one, something is f***ed up. There's just no way to explain around it. Like, no other exhibits of evidence need to be presented. We don't need to even get into Eisenberg's Lex or Martha stuff. That's enough, right there.

That said, I think Snyder got screwed over by WB early on by them not trusting him with a Man of Steel 2, as he was originally planning and down for. With exceptions, I dig the vibe and feel of Man of Steel and I would've loved to have seen a trilogy (or more) out of that world. Snyder turned loose to create a giant, interconnected dark opera? Not so much.

[Barkworm]

I don‘t remember which one it is but there‘s one episode of Half in the Bag in which Jay talks about Snyder being a guy who just talks a lot about how he thought this and that would look cool and Mike asks whether he‘s implying that Synder is a “Dummy“ to which they both start laughing.

This is pretty much my opinion of this guy. He‘s someone who‘s got a reckognizable but obnoxiously in-your-face style and thinks he‘s a genius because of it. But there‘s just no substance whatsoever.

[Andrew NDB]

I don‘t remember which one it is but there‘s one episode of Half in the Bag in which Jay talks about Snyder being a guy who just talks a lot about how he thought this and that would look cool and Mike asks whether he‘s implying that Synder is a “Dummy“ to which they both start laughing.

This is pretty much my opinion of this guy. He‘s someone who‘s got a reckognizable but obnoxiously in-your-face style and thinks he‘s a genius because of it. But there‘s just no substance whatsoever.

I think I've seen that episode of Half in the Bag.

Snyder's talented in that he understands cinematography and scale and storyboarding in ways that many directors do not, or delegate solely to, you know, the actual director of photography. He's good about sifting through the comics and finding the right panels with the dynamic angles and recreating that on the screen from the page, even though I'm not convinced he's really comprehending what he's reading as he's doing so beyond a surface level "this is sooo cooool!" AND I'm not sure he's even looking at the right mix of comics. If left to be creative by himself with no like real screenwriters given the floor, you just get stuff like Sucker Punch: nothing there, just some ideas and visuals lifted from far better movies and projects.

There's no real shame in it, I guess. Look at Ridley Scott. BRILLIANT director, makes movies that look fantastic. Now, he thinks he knows story, but every time he tries to assert himself creatively into that arena, sometimes you get lucky but 9 times out of 10 you get a stupid piece of sh**. Pair him up with a fantastic script, from real writers? You get magic. I'm sure the same would happen with Snyder.

[Barkworm]

Sucker Punch! That's the Half in the Bag episode I was talking about.

I agree with you about Ridley Scott, lots of greatness but at the same time you get stuff like Prometheus that looks cool but is just awful in every other department. I don't think Snyder is in the same ballpark though. He is a one-trick pony.

[Andrew NDB]

you get stuff like Prometheus that looks cool but is just awful in every other department.

And then a doubling down on all of the worst elements of Prometheus in Alien: Covenant! I couldn't believe it.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Sucker Punch....I remember being so hyped for that movie only to be majorly let down.

[IMJ]

Sucker Punch....I remember being so hyped for that movie only to be majorly let down.

It's amazing how that for so much eyecandy in that movie that it's nearly unwatchable.

[Andrew NDB]

It just made me want to watch Brazil and One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest again. Which I enjoyed doing again as I always do. So there's that.

[Allio]

Director’s cut was watchable at least.