April as a Ally in Combat?

[MikeandRaph87]

April O'Neil as a lab assistant or reporter, teenager or late 20s' is the one constant friend to the TMNT. However, she is most often an information source whether as a reporter or as an Oracle-like observer to help in their missions. On occasions however April has assisted the Turtles in battle such as in TMNT Adventures and the 2007 TMNT film or a pair of combat fighter games. There was a tease during the Triceraton invasion of her being a more competent fighter than Casey Jones in the 2003 cartoon, but it turned out to be a one off. Should April as a friend to the Turtles fight alongside them or help them in some other way? Do you think if it is not every version, but every so often and it is not forced it work fine? I personally prefer her as a non-combatant ally. She does not strike me as one who should fight with the Turtles against The Shredder and other threats, but if a version or two finds it fits the narrative its fine. As an information broker it fits her better to me. After reading Archie's TMNT Adventures and seeing her go from a field reporter to competent blade wielder seems weird. Holding her on in a fight against foot soldiers/ninja or tricking unintelligent Hench characters works.

[oldmanwinters]

As weird as Archie's May East mini-series was, it at least made an effort to explain why April made such quick progress at being trained by Splinter. Every other instance in which she's a fully functioning adult who quickly becomes a skilled fighter and acrobat within a few weeks/months after meeting the Turtles defies any notion of plausibility. It's also more believable that she could make quick progress as a teenager like in the Nick CGI toon, on account of the fact that a lot of kids don't start playing particular sports until high school, and then become top prospects within 2-3 years.

[turtle1237]

To me it just seems odd for April to be in the field fighting along the Turtles. Not everyone can be the warrior in a JRPG. April should of been a white mage with the task of healing and other ways of helping out.

[ABrown]

If it works for said version of the character, then absolutely. I thought that both the 4Kids and 2007 movie Aprils handled her as a fighter very well.

[IndigoErth]

Frequently and on purpose, no. But it would make sense that her friends might give her some basic training she can use out in life if need be and on the occasion that she's with them and ends up in the middle of a battle.

Even if she is not actively going after the enemy herself, it would be good and preferable if she can at least defend herself. And maybe provide occasional support as able with some clever quick thinking, etc. (Rather than just being made into a screaming hostage or cowering behind something.) Things like causing something to come crashing down that slows an enemy, being able to trip one of them with something, or is able to toss a lost weapon back to one of the Turtles. Things that can help turn the tide in favor of her friends without getting too involved.

Hell, she could even impact a bad battle the Turtles are not likely to win by escaping to call the police and the Turtles know to make a quick escape amid the chaos when they hear those sirens.

If April was a character who'd chosen a career as a cop, or martial artist, military, or whatnot, it might make sense to have more involvement and for her to have interest in doing so if she found herself in the middle of it, but that isn't her life. (And I'd rather not make it her life for the sake of an excuse to do it or for trying to be different... The reporter or lab tech options work.)

While having occasional female fighting partners is good, I don't see April as the best option for that. Let her use her own skills and tools from her own career choices to be an asset in her own ways. She doesn't forever have to be the only woman they ever know, just preferably the closest.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I'm surprised this isn't a TommyT thread :lol:.

I prefer her not be a fighter, Atleast not extensively to the extent with iterations like 2012 which made her a Kunoich with all-out Psychic powers.

The extent of OT April fighting was just waving around a frying pan or unplugging dangerous machinery for the turtles every now and then :tlol:

She was still pretty helpful to them though, by virtue of being their eyes and ears to the outside world.

[TommyT]

The day I get a good looking April figure, is the day I stop obsessing.

[oldmanwinters]

If it works for said version of the character, then absolutely. I thought that both the 4Kids and 2007 movie Aprils handled her as a fighter very well.

I liked April in both of those contexts, but when most people complain about "warrior" April, they probably have one of those two examples in mind. In the 4Kids show, she advances (off-camera) so quickly that she's making Casey Jones look bad by early Season 3 (specifically her acrobatics in "Worlds Collide, Parts 2-3"); to be fair, most episodes were content to scale back her competence to basic self-defense. But the Imagi film has her going one-on-one with Karai and besting her; although I've heard some people argue that Karai was thrown off-balance by some sort of distraction that allowed April to simply get around her during the big battle when the good guys storm the enemy stronghold.

The day I get a good looking April figure, is the day I stop obsessing.

:teek:

Uh... wrong thread?

[PizzaPower1985]

As an avid April fan I can tell you how I would play this... Since April has become a vital supporting character (we had that debate in another thread) I believe that over the course of time her experiences with the TMNT would necessitate her to be able to defend herself. Plus, I like strong women and consider myself an ally to feminism, so yes, April should know self defense. Does that mean she should be a ninja? Not necessarily? A martial artist of any sort? Yes. She should be an ally in combat, sometimes. Perhaps on RARE occasions. It shouldn't be often.

In my TMNT dreams, she is trained by Splinter and by the time the turtles are 17 or 18, she is familiar with the ways of the ninja, but not a master.

[Leo656]

I can see her being trained and occasionally participating, but holding her own against someone like Karai is a bridge too far, in my opinion. Even the Turtles should struggle against Karai, April's a total noob by comparison. That's a little too Mary-Sue.

[neatoman]

Well there is this old toy that came with a gun and a shuriken, the card even straight shows her firing that thing. I've never held this toy but I could swear I've seen that the camera was a disguise for the gun.

Almost makes me wonder if she was meant to be an agent disguised as a reporter...

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8e/ca/c8/8ecac842047ecc0b6e621b4e63e7a7a3.jpg

[MikeandRaph87]

This thread was inspired by April turning into a ninja trained by Splinter around issue #21 of TMNT Adventures. Raphael was off on his own adventures and Donatello was captured. The Turtles were lacking in non-Mutanimal allies especially then so it was okay for her to get green behind the ears. Going to toe to toe with a trained ninja like Chien Khan who can summon minor demons on her own just a few months there time later? Investigative reporting and able to defend herself sure. It just seemed a bit much to believe for her character. I am glad she was not the Turtles weakest point that Shredder or others continued to exploit, but it was not expected to answer that with the Adventures turn. I wonder if April being trained and fighting on her own was a response to her constantly being captured in video games and the original cartoon.

I like that level of capability that the 2003 cartoon displayed. World's Collide parts 2 & 3 was an error in my opinion. She suddenly displayed gymnastics and basic ninja skill and Casey was left to look like a bumbling goof who should have stayed at the lair. Instead of making an ally in combat such as Casey Jones look silly, Splinter could have commented on how his private trainings with him will finally be put to the test. However, the creative team may have noticed this and scaled back on her sudden ability. She was 'April the Jungle Girl" when she went with Don to save her uncle trapped in another dimension. That was a solid portrayal beyond investigative reporting or hacker skills. If built over time perhaps in dialogue and then shown on just a few occasions or handling Foot members I think it would work.

I remember when anticipating TMNT Smash Up and looking for what would turn out to be a sorry roster, I was like "why waste a space with a non-fighter in a fighter game!". There was the Sega version of Tournament Fighters, I know, but that was my thought on the matter.

So I believe if built and shown only occasionally April can take to the field to fight alongside the Turtles, but she is best served in an Oracle-like role or investigative reporting to get the Turtles information.

[PizzaPower1985]

I can see her being trained and occasionally participating, but holding her own against someone like Karai is a bridge too far, in my opinion. Even the Turtles should struggle against Karai, April's a total noob by comparison. That's a little too Mary-Sue.

Complete agreement here. Her training should never be enough to even rival a Foot Elite. It should perhaps be enough to defend herself against a small cadre of Foot soldiers though or maybe just a single Foot soldier.

[MikeandRaph87]

Complete agreement here. Her training should never be enough to even rival a Foot Elite. It should perhaps be enough to defend herself against a small cadre of Foot soldiers though or maybe just a single Foot soldier.

Never able to hold her own in against a lead villain and occasionally tricking more than beating the henchmen. Maybe use the environment to her advantage as a way of tricking. If it is Karai maybe just once in an iteration and it be using the environment but out right fight only a few foot soldiers.

[Drose18]

i thought the obsessive focus on april in 2012 outright ruined the show for me as they were constantly bailed out by her undefined limit psychic powers.

[PizzaPower1985]

I love the idea that April can hold her own. The fact that its even being discussed means we've come a long way for female supporting characters since the 1990s.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

There is a wide range between "fainting violet / damsel in distress" and "overpowered Mary Su". Shouldn't be hard to write a good April.

[Leo656]

Female characters are tough to write in general, though.

[PizzaPower1985]

There is a wide range between "fainting violet / damsel in distress" and "overpowered Mary Su". Shouldn't be hard to write a good April.

Wait. CKD, are you implying that April being trained in martial arts is a mary sue? I certainly don't see April as a martial artist or being trained as ninja as being overpowered.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Wait. CKD, are you implying that April being trained in martial arts is a mary sue? I certainly don't see April as a martial artist or being trained as ninja as being overpowered.

Not my intent. I was thinking more of the Nick April for being the Mary Sue. I don't mind April training some (it should be inevitable, after all, when she's hanging around the TMNT), but like others have already said, she shouldn't be much of a badass. Certainly not Karai / Pimiko / Tang Amaya levels.

Female characters are tough to write in general, though.

Nah. They're really not.

[Leo656]

Not my intent. I was thinking more of the Nick April for being the Mary Sue. I don't mind April training some (it should be inevitable, after all, when she's hanging around the TMNT), but like others have already said, she shouldn't be much of a badass. Certainly not Karai / Pimiko / Tang Amaya levels.

Nah. They're really not.

Well, we write different stuff, so maybe, maybe not. :lol:

I kinda like the concept of April being able to handle herself in a scrap. Maybe even wielding a katana once in a while. That's hot. :lol: But the whole "psychic powers and plot armor" stuff, nah, that's a bridge too far, for me.

[Coola Yagami]

I think the major issue is April is supposed to be a normal person in a normal world before the Turtles enter her life. And most normal run-of-the-mill people aren't just casually practicing martial arts. Having her suddenly pick it up and be on par with people that have been trained all their life in martial arts (Karai) is just stupid.

I think if there was some version of April that was already a martial artist or whatever before she met the Turtles, that would kinda work, it would just be jarring for people that are so used to April being Miss Joe Average. Like before the 2012 cartoon I would never think I'd be using physic powers or half alien to describe April.

[PizzaPower1985]

The idea of April as a martial artist would provide real definition to her character and make for some great story possibilities, but as others have said, her martial arts knowledge should offer a very basic protection and get her out of most scrapes within the city. She shouldn't even be a factor with someone like Karai, certainly not Tatsu.

The idea of April as a martial artist did originate in the Archie books right, as an apprentice to Splinter? Well, fine for that version (did they touch on it at all in later Mirage?), but ideally, yeah, I think we're all in agreement here that April should be able to handle herself on the street, but against highly trained ninja or otherwise, No!

April should be resourceful, cunning, intelligent. She should definitely NEVER be a damsel, but if a threat like the Foot enter her life, well, she's f**ked.

[MikeandRaph87]

What originated this thread was seeing April suddenly take to the field and defeated a lead villain on her own matching skills rather quickly. I read the follow up miniseries yesterday. The art is not something I really care about, its the characters involved, their treatment, and the tone. However, the art in The May East saga is aweful, the funny looking noses and even if Splinter is caught in a predicament he is drawn poorly just the same. May East is Asian? She looks Caucasian to me, always thought she was. I blame it on the poor art. Seeing April in ful ninja gear is mind boggling.

I think it is safe to say that most fans prefer April support the Turtles in other ways and be able to defend herself from a gang or Foot Soldiers, but nothing more. Maybe get lucky once a series by tricking someone who is not Bebop and Rocksteady.

What was the idea during the Triceraton invasion in the 2003 cartoon to make April competent and Casey Jones a klutz? It would seem to be the opposite way around as far as going on a stealthy vigilante mission.

[Coola Yagami]

April should be resourceful, cunning, intelligent. She should definitely NEVER be a damsel, but if a threat like the Foot enter her life, well, she's f**ked.

The problem is, any time a woman is in trouble people consider her a damsel. If you're saying the Foot are a threat to her, yeah she's pretty much a damsel in distress unless the Turtles bust in and save her.