What are your biggest disappointments with the MCU?

[Andrew NDB]

I'll go first with mine, in order of what disappoints me the most to disappoints me the least.

1. Ed Norton's recasting as Hulk. I get it, but seeing him in the Avengers was the biggest thing I was looking forward to. Sidenote: also the complete forgetting about the character of Betty, after Incredible Hulk.

2. The disconnect between the TV and movies. I would've lost my sh** in Infinity War or Endgame if Jon Bernthal's Punisher popped out and started blasting Thanos troops, or seeing the Charlie Cox Daredevil saving some people on a street or something. I don't think this was ever too much to ask. I know the new Disney+ series will be far more interconnected with the films but this should have been the case all along, as they originally promised us.

3. Iron Man 3. It learned nothing from the mistakes of 2 and even double-downed on them. Also, huge disappointment on the Mandarin.

4. Thor 3. A largely brain dead summer actioner that just repeats the same "I need to prove myself worthy!" story from the first movie. With more laughs and none of the supporting characters from 1 or 2 except Loki. Thor 2 was flawed but deserved a proper follow-up.

5. No Death in Infinity War or Endgame. I thought for sure they'd reposition Hela from Thor 3 as Death (I thought that was the whole point in getting Blanchett at all) if not introduce Death herself... well, turns out none of the above, folks. No Death at all, even though she was like the sole motivating factor for Thanos in the comics. I guess we can thank China for that, or rather Disney's insistence on kowtowing to their weird sensibilities (no occult, skulls, ghosts, etc.).

6. Hulk and Thor's treatment in Endgame. Basically, they took the manliest characters of the Avengers... made one a weakened intellectual (Hulk) and made the other one a fat, depressed beer swiller (Thor). And to boot, they make another one a retired old man (Cap) handing his shield off to a person of color, even though that's not the way it shook out in the comics (at least, not in this order). And after that "preview" of a fight between Hulk and Thanos in Infinity War, I thought for sure there'd be a main event in Endgame. Turns out there was nothing at all. Just an "Endgame" for toxic masculinity, instead.

7. The Marvel Netflix decline. Daredevil season 1? AWESOME. Daredevil season 2? Pretty cool! Daredevil season 3? Maybe a LITTLE bit of a step back in some ways, but nice. Jessica Jones season 1? Cool! I dig it as the start of her arc. 2 and 3? Uh... no. No, not good. The people in charge seem to delight in not allowing her to evolve, just keeping her the same from beginning to end. Would've been nice to see a greater usage of her powers. Also, 2 and 3 seemed more interested in feminism than actually growing Jessica. Iron Fist? Both seasons were pretty OK... but I am NOT a fan of him having no costume. He SHOULD wear one. I also didn't appreciate him being emasculated in that 2nd season. Luke Cage 1 and 2? Both pretty cool, especially 1. Punisher season 1 and 2? WOW. It is actually criminal that we may never see the Bernthal Punisher again. Picture perfect casting and nicely executed (and brutal!) stories. Defenders? A SHAM! And the whole build-up to "is he ready for when the gate opens!" from Daredevil season 1 was completely ignored. Also, Marvel Netflix/Disney or whoever clearly fell on their sword to all the SJWs complaining about the evil Japanese ninja clan in Daredevil season 1 and 2 being Japanese. Morons.

8. No real advancement on Deadpool 3 yet. C'mon. You guys promised. Give us something here.

9. Agents of SHIELD. I still watch it and enjoy it... but its become a shell of its former self. It peaked in season 3, I think, with the alien planet and the living embodiment of HYDRA being the bad guy. Season 2 was awesome, too, with Kyle freakin' MacLachlan as Daisy's dad. We even had Samuel L. Jackson show up a couple of times and even Bill Paxton as an ongoing villain. For the last few seasons they must have had their budget hamstringed or something and it's all kind of by-the-numbers plot-driven stuff (rife with a lot of snarky SJW-type dialogue lately), no more character-driven stuff, and I think that really hurt things. Season 4 restored SHIELD to good public standing then it was almost as immediately yanked away... I've been waiting since season 1 for things to be restored to normality but it never seems to be in the cards.

[ZariusTwo]

Most of the MCU movies just aren't timeless. They've dated horribly over the last decade, the humour is too quirky and comes close to Family Guy levels at times.

Each film's story doesn't get talked about much on it's own merits by it's audience, all they quote are the jokes or the memetic lines, all they care about is the post-credit scene and discussing the next disappointment to come. There is nothing to hook them in the main feature, and whatever does isn't related to some weighty moral or captivating character arc, it's whatever stupid fart or pop culture joke the characters crack.

There are just so few journies in these movies you can be taken on. At a stretch, Tony is the best realised in the MCU, but even he doesn't really have a low point even in the films where he's supposed to because nobody stays mad at him for long enough.

[Sumac]

Lack of Death in Infinity War / Endgame.
While I understand that for some people it might look to quirky, I mean, nigh invulnerable monster is trying to destroy universe to woo his waifu, it would have been better than pseudo-scientific explanation about "halving population of the universe slows entropy and waster of resources". Especially in the movie series where you have a talking racoon and a sentient tree.

And over all, lack of stakes. MCU movies never feel like there is a genuine threat. It is obvious that by the end all characters gonna become friends again and only insignificant characters gonna die.

There are plenty of movies where you know that main character gonna survive no matter what, yet you worry for them. MCU just leaves me completely disinterested in that regard.
It feels like a kid's cartoon almost.

[Galactus]

1. This may sound really trivial but the lack of wings on Captain America's helmet. I definitely think his Avengers 2012 costume should have included them given how much more the suit was trying to invoke patriotic super hero imagery over military garb. I know that it may look very stupid but the CW Flash for all its faults made the lightning bolts on the cowl work and one of those Batintgesun videos gave us a great Marvel Now inspired Cap but with the raised wings and it looked great so it can be done.

2. I definitely wanted a real Mandarin in Iron Man 3. The twist was actually funny and one of the better parts of the movie but it wasn't worth not having a proper Mandarin. Even if I'm not a huge fan of the character it would have been great to see a battle with a mystically charged foe. They could have even worked it that he charged his rings with an Infinity Stone.

3. How badly botched the whole situation with the Inhumans was. Not a huge fan but I have a certain fondness for the characters and would like to have seen them in the MCU. However their hamfisted push for them in comics created this resentment that they were trying to replace the X-Men and in the end it seemed Marvel just caved and relegated them to a crappy 10$ budget TV series. I was also a fan on Hickman's Infinity series which was a clear influence on Infinity a War. I would have liked to have seen more of that. Black Bolt destroying Attilan to keep it from falling to Thanos would have been cool to see in a movie.

Beyond that just better movies for the ones I was less fond of. Iron Man 2, The Dark World. This is a hugely normie opinion but Marvel studios have yet to give us a properly bad movie so I can't complain too much but yeah this is what I'd change.

[ZariusTwo]

This is a hugely normie opinion but Marvel studios have yet to give us a properly bad movie

There's been several. People just won't admit it.

[Galactus]

There's been several. People just won't admit it.

People don't tend to admit to things they don't actually believe.

[Cure]

Spider-Man Homecoming is trash and so is Thor 3. Never saw the second Spider-Man because of how mad the first one made me. Nothing else besides that for me.

Well, no. A theme across most of the movies I can do without is how everything is a joke. I need less hyucks.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

1. The tone of all the movies. I want fewer jokes and more stakes. It seems that when they play up the stakes, it's ruined a second later by some lame 'joke' that ruins all the build up

2. The samey style for all the movies. I'm all for consistency. but perhaps the MCU is 'too' consistence in how the movies look and feel. Sure, Winter Soldier the guardians movies and Thor 3 all seem to look different, but they don't look different enough.

Also, Captain Marvel is by far the worst Marvel 'movie'.

[neatoman]

Well the weakest movies in order of release are:

The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Iron Man 3
Thor: The Dark World
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Black Panther
Captain Marvel


I'm not adding TV shows to that list because let's face it, they are probably going to be treated as non-canon down the line.

In terms of creative descisions I don't like:

The design of the Abomination
Completely ignoring foreshadowing of the Leader
The aliens in Avengers basically being a generic force created for that movie
Writing out SHIELD as it was a secret HYDRA thing
Zola being killed off and never getting his robot body
Ultron being about as definitively as possible in his first appearence
Giving every single character in GotG overly simplified backstories (yes, I get that making Gamora from the future and Drax a human recreated by an Eternal might be confusing to explain in one movie but all things considered...)
Turning the Eye of Agamotto into a time travel device
Effectively turning Spider-Man into Iron Man Jr.
Having Flash be a rich spiteful nerd who would obviously never join the military
Making the Grandmaster an idiot manchild
The uh... Hrm... Awkwardness... of Black Panther... Hrm...
Removing Death, thereby making Thanos' reasoning a bit more nonsensical
Making Nick Fury lose an eye to a cat
Making the villainous elements of the Skrull a total lie by the Kree
Making Carol's backstory so weak
Killing off Mar-Vell off in such an undignified way
Literally just using the name and species of Talos for a new character
A damn video game amnesia plot
Carol's powers being held back by little nub on the neck
Effectively removing the possibility of Genis-Vell, Phyla-Vell and Teddy Altman from ever showing up
Casting Brie Larson
Introducing the concept of alternate timelines in the movie they need it
Seemingly confirming that they'll never use Hydro-Man (I know I'm in the minority who care about Hydro-Man but still)
Deciding to go with a secret identity revealed twist so soon

[sdp]

Movies are entertaining but ultimately forgettable, there's a reason why DC films are still talked about despite supposedly being inferior to Marvel films, with Marvel you just want the latest, like a soap opera but how many are as rewatchable as the original Iron Man?

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Movies are entertaining but ultimately forgettable, there's a reason why DC films are still talked about despite supposedly being inferior to Marvel films, with Marvel you just want the latest, like a soap opera but how many are as rewatchable as the original Iron Man?

Captain America: Winter Soldier
Captain America: Civil War (mostly)
Infinity War (kinda)

That's about it

[IMJ]

There's been several. People just won't admit it.

When Iron Man 3 came out most people were towing the line, posting everywhere "the best Marvel movie yet!" and other nonsense.

That movie was complete ****. It's almost irredeemable.

[CyberCubed]

Well the weakest movies in order of release are:

The Incredible Hulk
Iron Man 2
Iron Man 3
Thor: The Dark World
Avengers: Age of Ultron
Black Panther
Captain Marvel



I agree with the others on your list but what was weak about Black Panther? It blows the others on that list out of the water.

[Coola Yagami]

I loved Black Panther. Killmonger and Klaw stole every scene they were in.

I guess my disappointments were

-Iron Man 3

-Other than Loki, and I guess Klaw and Crossbones, no other villains survive long enough to return or do a villain team-up or anything. Even Klaw and Crossbones return only to die anyways.

-Bringing back Ross was ok but really wanted to see Abomination return somewhere, even if he's a hired gun or brainwashed or whatever

-The fact Betty Ross was also forgotten. Between that and Abomination it really makes that Hulk movie feel like it doesn't belong. Like the only two things linking it are Ross coming back and Tony's post credit cameo in that one.

-Where's Lady Sith?

-Could have gone without the Black Widow and Hulk attempt at romance. It was out of left field. I mean I guess since she was the one to seek him out in the first Avengers, maybe, but I don't remember anything past that moment that would have hinted her having feelings for him. And again, Banner acts as if Betty doesn't even exist, which would have been a good chance to at least bring her up. Hell, now that Professor Hulk was a celeb of sorts, Betty could have seeked him out assuming she wasn't snapped.

-Wish there was more crossover between Agents of SHIELD and the movies. Really wanted an extra scene of the Defenders trying to keep things under control street side during the Infinity War movies. Like the theater would have lost their ****.

[Galactus]

When Nat seeks out Banner in the first Avengers movie he holds a cradle "we don't always get what we want" so yeah the whole romance and not being able to have kids was always Whedon's plan.

That being said I didn't really care for it. Maybe Scarlett's pregnancy affected what they could do but I didn't think her and Mark Ruffallo had any real chemistry.

[Allio]

I guess I always found MCU always kind of ?okay? so really I never really paid much attention.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

1. The whole M.J. character in the MCU Spider-Man. I know that they said that the love interest that they chose is not Mary Jane but you still alluded to the fact that her name was M.J. Like if she's an entirely different character, why bother giving her the nickname in the first place. Not to mention, she's a very wooden and disturbed character. Like if you combined Plank from Ed, Edd, n Eddy with Raven from Teen Titans into one person, this is the result. She's "M.J." in name only.

2. While I don't find the Spider-Man films awful, they're not very ambitious. You have Peter back to being a teenage again, why? It's been done to death already. And both movies keep treating him like he's Iron Man's protege.

3. This is a bit pedantic but the final battle scene in The Incredible Hulk. Not necessarily how it went down but how it was shot. There were quite a number of inconsistencies during that fight. When Hulk kicks Blonsky, he kicks him to the right of the scene but then it cuts to him landing to the left when he hits the tree. Just a bit of weird editing shots for me, personally.

4. The CGI in Black Panther. Something about the effects were out of place with what this movie was going for. The last fight scene in particular was shockingly bad for an MCU film.

5. I really didn't care for Captain Marvel. It's not objectively a bad film but it was pretty boring in a lot of aspects. Pretty weak that a space cat was responsible for Nick Fury's eye...come on!:roll: Also didn't help that the protagonist wasn't very likable, which was an apparent problem with Brie Larson and her comments on white men before the movie was released. I would say that I was looking forward to seeing how she was teased as the key to beating Thanos but I was kinda split on the matter after both her solo movie and Endgame. On one hand, her movie didn't get me excited for her to show up since she didn't really have much character growth. On the other, she only fights him for 20 seconds and even she gets her ass handed to her. So they hyped this character up for nothing. Maybe she was mishandled but in the end, she turned out to be a character I couldn't care less about.

I guess movies such as Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, and Avengers Age of Ultron were pretty much on the weak side. The first two Thor movies weren't great but I got a bit more enjoyment out of those.

[Coola Yagami]

1. The whole M.J. character in the MCU Spider-Man. I know that they said that the love interest that they chose is not Mary Jane but you still alluded to the fact that her name was M.J. Like if she's an entirely different character, why bother giving her the nickname in the first place. Not to mention, she's a very wooden and disturbed character. Like if you combined Plank from Ed, Edd, n Eddy with Raven from Teen Titans into one person, this is the result. She's "M.J." in name only.

2. While I don't find the Spider-Man films awful, they're not very ambitious. You have Peter back to being a teenage again, why? It's been done to death already. And both movies keep treating him like he's Iron Man's protege.

3. This is a bit pedantic but the final battle scene in The Incredible Hulk. Not necessarily how it went down but how it was shot. There were quite a number of inconsistencies during that fight. When Hulk kicks Blonsky, he kicks him to the right of the scene but then it cuts to him landing to the left when he hits the tree. Just a bit of weird editing shots for me, personally.

4. The CGI in Black Panther. Something about the effects were out of place with what this movie was going for. The last fight scene in particular was shockingly bad for an MCU film.

5. I really didn't care for Captain Marvel. It's not objectively a bad film but it was pretty boring in a lot of aspects. Pretty weak that a space cat was responsible for Nick Fury's eye...come on!:roll: Also didn't help that the protagonist wasn't very likable, which was an apparent problem with Brie Larson and her comments on white men before the movie was released. I would say that I was looking forward to seeing how she was teased as the key to beating Thanos but I was kinda split on the matter after both her solo movie and Endgame. On one hand, her movie didn't get me excited for her to show up since she didn't really have much character growth. On the other, she only fights him for 20 seconds and even she gets her ass handed to her. So they hyped this character up for nothing. Maybe she was mishandled but in the end, she turned out to be a character I couldn't care less about.

I guess movies such as Iron Man 2, Iron Man 3, and Avengers Age of Ultron were pretty much on the weak side. The first two Thor movies weren't great but I got a bit more enjoyment out of those.

I'm not 100% if maybe Carol had more of a fight scene with Thanos or not, but I know everyone hated the Roman Reigns Push she was getting both in the comics and the movie, so people would have rioted if they made her whup Thanos' ass as if he were nothing.

I'm glad Tony got to finish it. The whole MCU started with his movie. Throughout the series from having panic attacks in IM3 to the creation of Ultron, Tony was always in fear of what would come next from space. And seeing that Thanos was behind the alien invasion in Avengers, it made sense Tony gave his life to put his fear to rest and wipe him out.

[Autbot_Benz]

Smart Hulk. Hulk isn't some Selfie taking dabbing taco making idiot. He is the green rage monster. They did cut out the scene of banner and hulk coming to terms and coming together which I wish was left in the movie.


Everyone hating on Thor Rangarok blah I say. its the best Thor movie and reinvented the character. Hemsworth was sick of playing him as the straight shakespearean god and wanted to do something different. Also that movie gave us Jeff Goldblum's awesome Grandmaster Tessa Thompson's Valkyrie and Korg 3 which are 3 fan favorite characters.

My Gripe is characters that haven't been brought into the MCU yet that should have. Mainly Adam Warlock and Beta Ray Bill (Hopes Beta will be in Love and Thunder)

I agree with everyone about Captain Marvel's Standalone movie it was just average nothing special. she was much cooler in Endgame and I agree fans would have revolted if she beat thanos instead of Tony.

[neatoman]

I agree with the others on your list but what was weak about Black Panther? It blows the others on that list out of the water.

Well, some of the flaws of the movie are... Awkward... To adress, so I'm not going to talk about them openly considering what kind of discussion that could lead to. If you really want to know about that, PM me. I'm not pointing out those flaws here.

But the ones I'm willing to adress here are:

The opening scene in the 90's is way too hamfisted as foreshadowing. We know Killmonger must have something to do with it long before he admits to being the traitor's son. The scene would otherwise have been pointless.
There is also no reason for the King to lie about what happened. His brother was a traitor and was killed when he retaliated, there is no need to cover that up.
Killmonger's makes very little sense. He had the tattoo that gives him passage into Wakanda and didn't need much proof that he's royalty. There should be any need to do anything but show up.
The way Klaw acts is quite a leap from Age of Ultron, it feels like we missed some movie in between were he went nuts (and no, having a robot rip off your arm is not a satisfying explaination).
Many of these issues I covered already seems to stem from a need for filler. If none of it happened then you'd end up with a movie that's about one hour long. As result of the filler, the movie has rather terrible pacing.
There are also several points of questionable CGI particularily in the final battle.


The script is obviously pretty terrible and it's mostly the action scenes that entertain. Which, given that it's primarily an action movie, makes it somewhat forgiveable. But I can't really say it's more than mediocre overall.

[Leo656]

Everyone hating on Thor Rangarok blah I say. its the best Thor movie and reinvented the character. Hemsworth was sick of playing him as the straight shakespearean god and wanted to do something different.

But... but that's who Thor is... like, literally all the time. :blanksta:

I really, really, really don't like it when actors get too much creative control. They make everything about themselves for nebulous reasons. See also: Robbie, Margot and Quinn, Harley.

Whatever Hemsworth was portraying in the latter MCU films may have been entertaining, but it absolutely wasn't "Thor". And it kinda irks me because Thor's one of the few Marvel characters I pay any attention to. They started off well even if it was a little dry, but by the end it was so far away from who the Thor character is, they could've just called him Hammer McDudeBro or something and it would've made no difference. People always whine and whinge quite loudly in accusing lots and lots of comic book movies of not being faithful in representing their characters, and what a grave injustice that is, but DudeBro Thor is celebrated by many because... "jokes" (And the quotes are definitely warranted)? What a paper-thin double-standard that is.

Of course, apparently most of what he did in Chickbusters was his own personal choices, too. So I guess it turns out that Chris Hemsworth, a guy whose work I initially enjoyed in his early years, is kind of a goofball jagoff who thinks he's hilarious but isn't really, and insists on putting too much of himself in his material. That's unfortunate. I liked him fine ten years ago but now I'd kinda be fine never seeing him again.

"Cabin in the Woods" is alright, though. Gotta admit, I LOVE seeing him wipe out on that trap wall.

[Coola Yagami]

But... but that's who Thor is... like, literally all the time. :blanksta:

I really, really, really don't like it when actors get too much creative control. They make everything about themselves for nebulous reasons. See also: Robbie, Margot and Quinn, Harley.

Whatever Hemsworth was portraying in the latter MCU films may have been entertaining, but it absolutely wasn't "Thor". And it kinda irks me because Thor's one of the few Marvel characters I pay any attention to. They started off well even if it was a little dry, but by the end it was so far away from who the Thor character is, they could've just called him Hammer McDudeBro or something and it would've made no difference. People always whine and whinge quite loudly in accusing lots and lots of comic book movies of not being faithful in representing their characters, and what a grave injustice that is, but DudeBro Thor is celebrated by many because... "jokes" (And the quotes are definitely warranted)? What a paper-thin double-standard that is.

Of course, apparently most of what he did in Chickbusters was his own personal choices, too. So I guess it turns out that Chris Hemsworth, a guy whose work I initially enjoyed in his early years, is kind of a goofball jagoff who thinks he's hilarious but isn't really, and insists on putting too much of himself in his material. That's unfortunate. I liked him fine ten years ago but now I'd kinda be fine never seeing him again.

"Cabin in the Woods" is alright, though. Gotta admit, I LOVE seeing him wipe out on that trap wall.

Wasn't he also portrayed as a bumbling 'how did they even hire this guy' type of idiot in the new MIB? It's kinda like he went from being the manly man men aspire to be to now being Homer Simpson.

[Leo656]

I didn't see it - not a big "Men In Black" guy - but I saw snippets of trailers on YouTube when that thing was coming out and yeah, I kinda don't like this dude. He's a clown shoe.

I mean guys like Bill Murray can make "Obnoxious, Insufferable Twat" their gimmick and play it in every movie to the point where they're not even "acting" in roles anymore, if they have a certain charisma, but not everyone can or should even try for that. For one thing, Hemsworth hasn't earned that kinda thing yet, and for another, he's not even incredibly funny or charming. If you're "neutral" on him in general like me he just comes off as a goof, and the more you see the less you wanna see.

I'm aware that mileage will vary. And I did really, really wanna like the guy once upon a time. When I saw "Thor 1" I thought the movie was slightly above average but that he himself was good. But it's been all downhill from there in everything I've seen him in.

So of course he's playing Hulk Hogan in some upcoming biopic. :lol: Ohhhhh brother, Brother! Real treat for me. :lol: I love how they got a guy with a full head of hair who can barely get tan and vocally hates working out, to play a guy who went bald at age 2, has the skin tone of overcooked bacon and still has arms like tree trunks at age 60-whatever. Such perfectly inspired casting. :lol: I haven't seen such "perfect" casting since Will Sasso played Jesse "The Body" Ventura on MAD TV. :trazz:

[Spike Spiegel]

Everything involving Spider-Man
Brie Larson's casting as Carol Danvers
The lack of Hulk-related side stories
Too much Iron Man/RDJ wank
The Guardians of the Galaxy are unlikable assholes for the most part

I agree with the sentiment that the overall tone has too much humor. Infinity War and Endgame were so good because, for once, they played things pretty straight.

[Slade]

Pretty much what everyone else has said.

I'd have liked to see the X-Men and better Fantastic 4.
I need more Punisher.
Some Death, Deadpool and Thanos stuff would have been nice.
Fix Spider-Man altogether.
Better sequels.

[Leo656]

I agree with the sentiment that the overall tone has too much humor. Infinity War and Endgame were so good because, for once, they played things pretty straight.

Unfortunately, that leaves people like me who will probably never see those last two films in their entirety, because they just don't have the patience to sit through 87 skit comedies posing as super-hero movies, first, before everyone involved finally decides to stop doing shtick at the very end of the race. :lol::trazz:

I kid, I kid. Kinda. I do highly doubt I'll ever see them, though. That would require sitting through TWO Ant-Man movies and I really don't care enough.

I did really like the first Captain America, though.

[TommyT]

You know, it’s just so boring to hear Snyder apologists wank repeatedly about how great the failed DC franchises could have been, while simultaneously slamming the beloved Marvel films.

Like, I understand that you don’t like something, but maybe it’s just not for you. Maybe they were too smart for you, who knows, but let others like what they like.

[Leo656]

Wrong thread, buddy, nobody's doing that. We're just talking.

Your trolling efforts lately have been very, very weak. Go recharge and try again. I think your craft peaked somewhere in early-June but since then it's been tepid. Just sayin'.

[ZariusTwo]

Maybe they were too smart for you

These movies are the furthest you can imagine from "smart"

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Unfortunately, that leaves people like me who will probably never see those last two films in their entirety, because they just don't have the patience to sit through 87 skit comedies posing as super-hero movies, first, before everyone involved finally decides to stop doing shtick at the very end of the race. :lol::trazz:

I kid, I kid. Kinda. I do highly doubt I'll ever see them, though. That would require sitting through TWO Ant-Man movies and I really don't care enough.

I did really like the first Captain America, though.

As someone who hasn't seen all the MCU films yet understood Infinity War and Endgame perfectly, you don't need to see all of them.

If we think of the MCU as a TV show, then both Antman films, Thor 2, Guardians 2 and Black panther are kind of like 'filler episodes'. The later 'episodes' barely reference them in any important way.

[Leo656]

Eh, maybe. I'unno. I see what you're saying, though.

For me, I'm "supposed" to see all of them because that's the way the material was meant to be digested so I'd feel disingenuous at half-assing it. If I was gonna bother taking the journey I'd at least want to respect the creators' intent and follow the path they asked me to follow. I feel like otherwise I'd be missing some of the points or finer nuances of what they were trying to do. It's nice that you can skip some of the movies before watching those at the end, just like it's nice that you can read "Infinite Crisis" and make sense of it without reading "OMAC Project" or even "Crisis on Infinite Earths", really, just for example... you can make sense of the plot, but you're not SUPPOSED to do it that way. To get the absolute most out of the story you're supposed to follow the trail of breadcrumbs left in front of you before arriving at your predetermined endpoint. If you hopscotch around, you inevitably miss a few notes here and there; even if they're not important notes, they're still "supposed" to be part of the overall experience.

Thus, it makes perfect sense to me that the people who got the most overall enjoyment out of the final two Avengers movies are the ones who saw every single other movie first. Of course they'd get the most out of it because they're going to see things other people aren't aware of, even if they're minor or even inconsequential.

So I'd actually prefer to take the Long Way There if I were to ever sit and do the deal, even though I make (half) jokes about completely not caring about certain movies. But the truth is, I've never actually read the entire Saga from the comics that the movies are loosely based on, and I'd truly, truly rather read that for the first time than ever watch a bunch of movies water down the concepts. I've never been a huge Marvel guy, period, BUT, I can say with full conviction that I'd much rather read their comics - of a certain era, anyway, primarily 80s/early-90s - than watch any of the movies based on them.

It's not even "a knock" against the movies, it's fine that people like them and they excel at what they aim at doing, there's no denying that. They just do a lot of things that I don't care for in movies, is all. Not even "super-hero movies", just movies in general. At my age, with just about ANY comic book adaptation... I'd just rather read the books again. They're just more in line with my sensibilities and what I like about super-hero fiction. Movies and TV shows do not elevate the material of super-hero fiction, they simply water it down and diminish it so they can serve it fast-food style to a mass audience. It's like if comic books are spaghetti, live-action adaptations are Chef Boyardee. And again, at my age, the novelty of seeing stuff play out in live action isn't really enough to entice me anymore. I'm over it. The best versions of the stories and characters are always, always going to remain in print, and that's just the way it is.

That said, this thread is about stuff that specifically disappointed people about the MCU films, so even though I don't care as much, I feel that it's fine to toss a nickel into the "WHY I don't especially care" bucket. I'm not taking shots or trying to bang the drum, people have already said a lot of how I feel about it so I don't need to rehash what they've said.

I think Captain America and Iron Man were both really well-done, though. I think those two are going to hold up better over the ages than most of what's come since. They're nowhere near as ambitious but they're also a lot more focused and do a great job of presenting the source material, providing a strong bridge between the movies and comics for anyone who maybe hadn't heard of the characters and wanted to know more. Later movies, you really couldn't do that because the stories and characters became so unrecognizable. It's like, "So you like ______ and wanna read more about them? Tough break, in the comics they're a totally different character so it's pointless."

I really appreciated how the earliest movies were both good on their own, and also good adaptations. I've turned a lot of people on to the first Captain America who said they skipped it because he was "The boring Avenger" after jumping into the series with the more recent movies. They're usually surprised to find how much they like that movie. But that's purely anecdotal.

[Sumac]

These movies are the furthest you can imagine from "smart"
As someone who likes MCU, I must agree.
Marvel movies are definition of popcorn and not particularly smart at all.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

I think after Endgame I've just decided to largely not watch any more MCU film.

Not from any sort of stubbornness, but simply because they've spent the last 11 years building up a series of interconnecting film that lead up to a (mostly) satisfying conclusion that I was (mostly) happy with.

Waiting around for possibly another 10 years or so for the next one which probably won't be done nearly as well seems like a waste to me

I'll probably watch the odd or so if the film really interests me, but overall I'm kind of just done with the MCU

[Leo656]

I think that my biggest problem with them isn't even the movies, it's the audience, or certain parts of it.

People have proven to be willing to rabidly attack certain flaws in other movies, not even super-hero movies but just plain movies in general, yet those same exact criticisms can be lobbed towards MCU movies, often to a much greater degree, but it's like nobody is supposed to point it out. Like someone can rant and rave about how many plot threads were abandoned between "Prometheus" and "Alien: Covenant" and how they're both crap for those reasons and more- I disagree, by the way, I think they're alright, but anyway - but if you apply those same exact criticisms to, like, "Why does 'The Incredible Hulk' movie have nothing to do with anything, when it Could and Should be a major building block for the entire project?" or "If the second Thor movie was just gonna be disregarded, why did they make it and ask people for money to watch it?", people accuse you of spoiling their fun when you're merely questioning where the selective criticism comes from.

There's literally millions of movies people like which I don't care for and that's absolutely fine. The thing with the MCU that puzzles me is simply, things people attack in other films, no matter what kind of films, sometimes rabidly attack... they just handwave if the movie has a "Marvel" sticker on it. And it's like, you either care or you don't. If you're a person who bangs on about Movie X's flaws but ignores the exact same problems in Movie Y, I just can't understand it.

It's got nothing at all to do with the specific movies or their subject matter, let me be perfectly clear on that. It's just a thing people do more with those movies and it drives me up a wall.

It's true that "Everyone is a Critic", but such dramatic levels of inconsistency is frustrating if you pay attention to people as closely as I do.

[Spike Spiegel]

I think that my biggest problem with them isn't even the movies, it's the audience, or certain parts of it.

People have proven to be willing to rabidly attack certain flaws in other movies, not even super-hero movies but just plain movies in general, yet those same exact criticisms can be lobbed towards MCU movies, often to a much greater degree, but it's like nobody is supposed to point it out.

That's what infuriates me about their version of Spider-Man. People shout to high heaven that Snyder's Superman is a brooding jerk, but the MCU completely changes Peter Parker's setting, supporting cast, and overall portrayal and every "Marvel stan" on Twitter claps like an intoxicated seal.

Zendaya is NOT Mary Jane Watson. Flash Thompson is NOT a fast talking, academically inclined Indian kid. Ned Leeds is NOT a pudgy, comic-relief sidekick Peter met in high school or a Ganke Lee expy. In fact, MCU Spider-Man is basically Miles Morales in whiteface anyway. As an African American fan myself, I see they love to promote all that "diversity" but they couldn't really follow through in a way that was meaningful. And in that regard, don't get me started on the Carol Danvers/Monica Rambeau relationship in the movies vs. the comics.

I think after Endgame I've just decided to largely not watch any more MCU film.

Not from any sort of stubbornness, but simply because they've spent the last 11 years building up a series of interconnecting film that lead up to a (mostly) satisfying conclusion that I was (mostly) happy with.

Waiting around for possibly another 10 years or so for the next one which probably won't be done nearly as well seems like a waste to me

I'll probably watch the odd or so if the film really interests me, but overall I'm kind of just done with the MCU

These things have a shelf life. Stories are supposed to end. I'm interested to see if the timeline of those movies ends up being as convoluted as that of the original comic universe.

[Leo656]

That's what infuriates me about their version of Spider-Man. People shout to high heaven that Snyder's Superman is a brooding jerk, but the MCU completely changes Peter Parker's setting, supporting cast, and overall portrayal and every "Marvel stan" on Twitter claps like an intoxicated seal.

Zendaya is NOT Mary Jane Watson. Flash Thompson is NOT a fast talking, academically inclined Indian kid. Ned Leeds is NOT a pudgy, comic-relief sidekick Peter met in high school or a Ganke Lee expy. In fact, MCU Spider-Man is basically Miles Morales in whiteface anyway. As an African American fan myself, I see they love to promote all that "diversity" but they couldn't really follow through in a way that was meaningful. And in that regard, don't get me started on the Carol Danvers/Monica Rambeau relationship in the movies vs. the comics.


Spider-Man was always my favorite Marvel character if I have one, anyway, so yeah, everything about these new ones just makes me go, "nope".

They have, like, nothing at all that's recognizable to me as someone who owns a few comics and has played plenty of video games. Nothing I know and like about Spider-Man exists in the new movies. It's fine if people like it, but you're right, it's pretty far from faithful so it's bizarre that some of the same individuals who care a lot about fidelity, or claim to, in Movie X, will disregard it entirely for Movie Y because Movie Y spoke more to them personally. I'm sure they're fun movies, but that's not the point. My point is simply that people are very selective with their criticism at times, and it's just weird.

They should just say, "I just liked this better for myself, and that's that," and leave the inconsistent straw-grabbing about character fidelity out of the conversation entirely, if they're going to be so wishy-washy about when it should apply and when it doesn't matter.
-------------------

I completely don't want to derail the topic, but since you mentioned it, it always baffles me how people see what's clearly meant to be read as "introspective and conflicted" as "brooding and mopey" with regard to Cavill's Superman. He mopes a little towards the back end of BvS - in like, one scene - because all he has are good intentions and people won't let him just Be Superman, but for 5 hours across one-and-a-half movies before that, he's just trying to figure this whole gig out. I mean, he's been tasked with the hardest job in the world, there's no manual for it, and people keep telling him to f*ck off when all he wants to do is help out. His emotional responses scene-to-scene are the appropriate emotional reactions to the events happening around him.

Aaaaaaaaand it's all directly lifted from the comic books where he's predominantly behaved Exactly In That Manner since at least the mid-70s. The problem isn't that he's "Out of character", it's that it's a version of the character the people making the criticisms haven't been exposed to, so it's foreign to them. But it isn't "wrong"; if you've read the Byrne and Jurgens and Stern and Ordway stuff, for example, you know that it's "Introspective and Conflicted", not "brooding and mopey". This is a character who spends a ton of his time wrestling with an existential crisis about whether he's doing Too Much or Not Enough. It's just that "standing around in the Alps lost in thought" doesn't make for very exciting cartoons and such, so most people don't realize that that's, like, 60% of his day when he's not Clark Kenting or saving people. :lol: It's fine if you don't know that's part of who he is, if you've never seen it, but if you don't know just say you don't know. Y'know?

People who don't read comics can't see his thought balloons, so they have no idea how neurotic Clark Kent really is, and he's got every reason to be. Especially Year One, which is what those movies were based on, when he just got started and isn't even close to knowing what he's doing yet.

I know most people know and love the Reeve movie where he literally gets his cape, is immediately a Perfect Being who knows everything and always does everything right, but... that's literally the One And Only Time that the character's ever been presented that way. In all the other versions that have ever been done of the character, his entire first year is a big game of trial and error and he has a lot of sh*tty days along the way. You can't insist that people throw out 80 years of Hard Canon because "I wanna see him smile more", that's kind of silly. "Out of character presentation" is one of the worst complaints about those movies, it's simply incorrect. It's alright to not have seen or read something in the canon until you start fighting wars over your position, that's how I look at it.

Sorry to go off-topic, but obviously it's something I'm passionate about and it comes up a lot, and since you pointed it out specifically I felt like going into it. It's just such a bogus criticism that it exposes the person doing the criticizing as someone who literally doesn't know anything about the character, positioning themselves as an authority on the character. And it gets very frustrating when you're in my position, y'know what I mean? People screaming at the top of their lungs about something simply because they were personally misinformed.

At least it's harmless with fictional characters. :lol: People do it with politics and real-life issues as well, and we see how THAT goes. :trazz:

[neatoman]

I know this might not be the thread to discuss this, but how do you feel about retcons that will surely come? Like we already know there's going to be a "real" Mandarin and it's a fairly safe assumption Wanda will be retconned as mutant. Because we've already seen some retcons and the main reasons the MCU differs from the comics are:

A lot of things are difficult to present in live-action movies or it's difficult to establish certain concepts and characters when you are bound by runtime instead of pages.
A lot characters and concept were barred until last year. When they started they simply weren't allowed to use Spider-Man, Deadpool, New Mutants, the X-Men, the Fantastic Four, Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Blade, Punisher and I think Man-Thing. Plus the fact that there are still some limits on Spider-Man and Hulk.


Of course, there have been retcons to make the series more complex and the recent addition of licenses means more are sure to come. And retcons could easily undo some decent directions.

[Leo656]

One of the biggest and most unfortunate will surely be retconning the previous TV shows away to make way for presenting some of those characters such as Daredevil, Ghost Rider, Punisher, etc. I never watched them but people seem to like them, mostly, but everything I've read/heard says they'll most likely be discarded as some kind of alternate universe one they decide to do a Proper Daredevil or Punisher movie. So that's kind of a shame.

I was originally very curious to see what would become of the X-Men, as they could have been done terrific justice in the "real" MCU if they'd started doing it 10 years ago somehow. But as is, with all the talk from inside about wanting to make Magneto or Xavier or both either black or gay or whatever else, I have no interest in yet another "In Name Only" adaptation like their new Spider-Man stuff. So I'm pretty disappointed in that, as well. I was very underwhelmed by the Fox X-Men series although some of the movies were good, but the idea of a far more accurate and true-to-the-comics version of the X-Men was really enticing. Then they say they're not interested in doing that, and it's like, "Alright, I'm out, then."

It seems like the X-Men are destined to never get a "proper" film adaptation, and that's a shame. I am preemptively angry at them for how they've already announced that they plan to waste this great and unique opportunity that's been presented to them. COULD have been great, but I don't think it will be unless they change their priorities.

[drgon78]

Where to begin...

Soy latte Hulk
Fat Thor
No Funeral For Black Widow
No Ironman vs The Mandorin
No Red Skull re-mach for Cap.
Many bad/Forgettable villains
No Scarlet Witch and/or Vision movie
No more Hulk solo movies
Captain Marvel
Many missed opportunities.

[ProphetofGanja]

These movies are the furthest you can imagine from "smart"

This is one of the few times I agree with Zarius





I really enjoyed pretty much every MCU movie I saw in theaters, except for Thor 2 and Captain Marvel. I liked most of Doctor Strange but a lot of it just wasn't what I wanted from a movie about the character, after coming to love the way he was portrayed in his early comics (Benedict Cumberbatch was just not the right dude for the job, in my opinion).

And it's not that I don't love different takes on characters; I like new iterations of iconic figures that change a few things at a time in order to examine the character as a whole in a new light. I like the MCU's Peter Parker/Spider-Man for the most part but I recognize that making him Iron Man Jr. is a significant departure from the comics, but I don't need the movies to be EXACTLY like the comics. The comics are still out there.

I enjoyed Endgame a lot when I saw it in the theater, but now having re-watched it a couple times I gotta say, the inability of the directors and the writers to agree on how the fvck time travel is supposed to work in-universe is infuriating. It kinda ruins the whole thing, the phrase "sh!t the bed" comes to mind.

All that said, I'm still pretty curious about The Eternals, I'm vaguely interested in Black Widow, and I'm pretty excited about Shang-Chi and the Legend of the Ten Rings, the MCU Spider-Man 3, Thor: Love and Thunder, Black Panther 2, and Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness. And I'll definitely show-up for a Fantastic Four MCU movie, but I'll have strong opinions about that so we'll see how it goes.

[TommyT]

Wrong thread, buddy, nobody's doing that. We're just talking.

Your trolling efforts lately have been very, very weak. Go recharge and try again. I think your craft peaked somewhere in early-June but since then it's been tepid. Just sayin'.

That trailer air is getting to your head sunshine. You were all giggles and smirks until I stomped on your precious Snyder cut, then poof - snowflake.

Get it together Karen.

[AquaParade]

It’s really hard for me to complain at this point. I mean, I could critique these movies all day, and I do enjoy the discussion, but lately I‘m just in awe of what they have accomplished.

I like to think of how blown away I’d be if I had fallen into a coma around 2008 and had just awoken when someone handed me the MCU box-set. Like, suddenly my disappointments turn to dust. It’s just really cool what they’ve done and while I don’t enjoy them all, a few have become favorites.

[Andrew NDB]

Someone mentioned the CGI in Black Panther. Yeah, the fight with Black Panther vs. Killmonger looked pretty bad.

Beyond that, though, I didn't like the sudden introduction of nanite suits that just form together. And what, for thousands of years they've just worn regular, traditional suits (like he wore in Civil War)... and suddenly they just invent the nanite suits? Just in time for the Black Panther movie?

[neatoman]

Someone mentioned the CGI in Black Panther. Yeah, the fight with Black Panther vs. Killmonger looked pretty bad.

Beyond that, though, I didn't like the sudden introduction of nanite suits that just form together. And what, for thousands of years they've just worn regular, traditional suits (like he wore in Civil War)... and suddenly they just invent the nanite suits? Just in time for the Black Panther movie?

Yeah... In Black Panther I sort of figured it was basically Vibrinanium wankery, that they needed some tangible reason why Vibranium is "totes teh best material evar".

But Infinity War happened where Iron Man has a nanosuit and according to the official timeline, Black Panther only takes place a short while before Infinty War. This means one of the following happened:

A. Shuri and Tony made similar Tech around the same time.
B. Tony's tech was known and Shuri just copied it.
C. Shuri shared her tech and Tony figured out how to do it right away without vibranium (I think).

So in at least two of these scenarios, Vibranium isn't necessary. So I'm guessing the special properties it has is just that it's durable and a little easier to make advanced stuff with? In any case, T'Challa's suit is still objectively worse as it's still seemingly just basic armor protection.

And speaking of Vibranium and retcons, what happened to the promise of using it to aid the world? A five year skip after a major catastrophe and we see no signs of this aid? I'm gueessing whoever ruled when T'Challa was blipped didn't respect his wishes.

[Leo656]

That trailer air is getting to your head sunshine. You were all giggles and smirks until I stomped on your precious Snyder cut, then poof - snowflake.

Get it together Karen.

https://scontent.fewr1-6.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p720x720/105542407_2648637438569232_7817305409695648371_o.j pg?_nc_cat=103&_nc_sid=110474&_nc_ohc=U7WQC8Yhtj4AX_90lsg&_nc_ht=scontent.fewr1-6.fna&_nc_tp=6&oh=88da5719e9daf46e3108fca64bb211ca&oe=5F153520
I live here. :lol: Not bragging, just explaining. "Trailer air". You're alright, you.

My thing with you is that sometimes you have solid insight and other times it's like you wanna tweak peoples' nipples for no reason. That's all it is. I like the first guy better than the second one. No heat, just explaining.

[TommyT]

If you were brutally honest, the way you are with almost anything else, you'd maybe see Snyder is like just about anything else, maybe a bit worse.

See you, you're smart, smarter than most on the board, and yeah, you know that. Ok cool, but then you apply that intelligence to defending silly things, things that in large parts are not well crafted, and for some reason you're not applying the clear critical eye to things that deserve it.

So Marvel didn't hue to the comics. So what? neither did Snyder. Both have references and Easter eggs an nods. Both took liberties.

Here's my beef - I think, maybe, just maybe, you like the doom/gloom supposed realist take. I also think, that isn't at all what made you love Superman to begin with, because it can't be, because that's not who he was, is or should be. Maybe you hate people, and maybe I do too, but maybe Superman shouldn't. Maybe that's the whole rasion de etre of the idea. Maybe.

So hate Thor for not being a two dimensional mid century pastiche if you want, but it's not fair to lambast one, while exalting on the other (Superman), both are guilty of the same crime.

Stay consistent Constance. Nice garden BTW.

[Coola Yagami]

It's also difficult to see where we go from here. Spider-Man Far From Home was perfect way to end the series as saw the aftermath to Infinity War/End Game and how people reacted to half the population suddenly vanishing and suddenly coming back. I liked some of the little things like the younger brother now looking more like an older brother since he continued to age while the one that vanished and came back never did, or the wife that used this as a way to leave her husband and junk like that. If it weren't for the cliffhanger ending it woulda been perfect.

The only 2 MCU movies I wanna see now are Black Widow and Spider-Man 3 (to see how he gets out of that mess). I'm curious how they're gonna play Black Widow, and if the 'post credit' scene thing will end seeing as there isn't that major movie to lead up to anymore. I personally wouldn't mind if it was some of the old crew giving her a secret funeral.

Unlike Tony, Widow was technically not supposed to 'exist' to the common person, so no funeral for her makes sense. I would love if her movie ended with the remaining crew paying their respects to her in private, along with some of the new characters introduced in this movie.

No interest in seeing Captain Marvel 2 unless the rumors about Rogue and other X-Men characters being true. I feel her sequel is gonna be another shitstorm. Larson and her fanbase are in denial that her movie was mediocre and the ONLY reason is made box office was cause it was the last movie before End Game and people wanted to see any clues or that sweet sweet post credit scene. Same thing if the rumors are true in the sequel, that movie will do well, but not cause of you Larson, it would be cause of Rogue and X-Men hints.

[Leo656]

If you were brutally honest, the way you are with almost anything else, you'd maybe see Snyder is like just about anything else, maybe a bit worse.

See you, you're smart, smarter than most on the board, and yeah, you know that. Ok cool, but then you apply that intelligence to defending silly things, things that in large parts are not well crafted, and for some reason you're not applying the clear critical eye to things that deserve it.

So Marvel didn't hue to the comics. So what? neither did Snyder. Both have references and Easter eggs an nods. Both took liberties.

Here's my beef - I think, maybe, just maybe, you like the doom/gloom supposed realist take. I also think, that isn't at all what made you love Superman to begin with, because it can't be, because that's not who he was, is or should be. Maybe you hate people, and maybe I do too, but maybe Superman shouldn't. Maybe that's the whole rasion de etre of the idea. Maybe.

So hate Thor for not being a two dimensional mid century pastiche if you want, but it's not fair to lambast one, while exalting on the other (Superman), both are guilty of the same crime.

Stay consistent Constance. Nice garden BTW.

Nice projecting, but thanks for the compliments all the same.

Pretty sure you don't read comics, or as I've said elsewhere, you'd see how what you see as "Doom N Gloom" was always meant to be taken as "poignant and introspective", because That's Who The Character Is. But you've always been pretty outspoken on "I don't think I have to meet the creators halfway, and I don't care about their intentions, I just want my personal tastes catered to at all times", regardless of what topic is being discussed, whether it's TMNT or super-heroes, so no, I wouldn't expect you to take it that way. It's not what you, personally wanted, therefore, "I don't care if it's valid or authentic to the source, it's terrible because I don't like it." Okay. More End-User Problems. But kindly don't project that onto other people just because they see things from a perspective you don't share.

I'd like to either shift this part of the conversation elsewhere or drop it because this isn't the thread for it. I was specifically addressing something Spike Siegel mentioned which was tangentially relevant to the topic at hand, but that's been said and done. The last thing this board or this planet needs is more "I Hate Zack Snyder And If You Don't Then You're An Idiot" stuff. Spike made a point, I extrapolated upon that point, and now we've moved on. Kindly stop trying to turn a thread that's thus far been a lighthearted exchange of ideas into yet another Argument Thread just because you don't like a director. I have my own opinions about how Taika Waititi directs movies, and they're probably just as negative as your Snyder opinions, but out of respect for those who like his work, I'm not banging that drum because it's not entirely relevant. All I'm going to say, unless pressed, is that "It doesn't work for me, brother" because anything else is subjective sh*t-stirring and I've been trying to be better about that in my old age. If you can't see the line between "Doesn't work for me" and "This is flat-out garbage", you need personal growth, I'm sorry.

Now, going forward, if you're hellbent on trying to convince me that I don't understand who Superman should be or why my taste in movies isn't up to your arbitrary standards, I've cleaned out some space in my PM box, so feel free to "correct" me there if you absolutely must. It's highly likely that I've both read more comics and seen more movies in my lifetime than you have, but it's always amusing when people try to "educate" me on a subject just because we don't share an opinion. It's fun watching people punch upwards, sometimes. Like when people who've never had a match try and tell me how wrestling should work. I'm open to it, but I mostly just sigh. But by all means, you clearly think you're right, so feel free to continue this back-and-forth with me in the appropriate venue rather than trying to derail this thread. I don't think anyone appreciates it.

So yeah, PM me if you MUST continue trying to make whatever point you're trying to make. It's your quarter. As usual, I'm just kinda bemused why anyone actually gives This Much Of A F*ck what I'm into or why they take offense. You want me to share your values and standards, I guess? Why? We're never gonna meet, it's irrelevant. Clearly it bothers you, but... I fail to see why. ((Shrug))

You're a sharp cat too, but I wish you applied yourself less to being a salty biscuit because it's unbecoming and I personally feel it's beneath you, based on the times when I've seen you actually carry a conversation without venom. You're committed to the Internet Snark Boss bit, for sure, but why anyone does that, I'll never ever know. Feel free to try and make me understand that, too, should you become inclined to continue this chat in private.

In brief: I kinda like you in spite of yourself, probably more than anyone else here does if we're being honest. But sometimes, you make that very difficult with how you choose to speak to people, not limited to but including myself.
----------------

Also, though, thanks, it's a nice yard. :lol: It's my mother-in-law's garden and she works very hard on it. If it were up to me there'd be a pool there.

F*cking ten grand a year property taxes, there ought'a be virgins peeling grapes back there. :roll: At least I can see horses through the fence. Very tranquil.
--------------

Anyways. PM me if you must, otherwise I prefer to let this thread go back to its original function as it was in no way my intent to derail it in the first place. I was merely expanding on someone else's point, not summoning the cultures. Maybe I should've known better, but what can I say? My faith in the goodness and civility of people rarely goes unpunished.

[Leo656]

No interest in seeing Captain Marvel 2 unless the rumors about Rogue and other X-Men characters being true. I feel her sequel is gonna be another shitstorm. Larson and her fanbase are in denial that her movie was mediocre and the ONLY reason is made box office was cause it was the last movie before End Game and people wanted to see any clues or that sweet sweet post credit scene. Same thing if the rumors are true in the sequel, that movie will do well, but not cause of you Larson, it would be cause of Rogue and X-Men hints.

I didn't see the first one - I kinda never cared about "Captain Copyright Loophole" (Captain Marvel is the guy in the red suit with the lightning bolt, and I'll go to my goddamn grave saying so) - but I think you're right on with this. I never hear anyone talking about that movie, and barely heard anyone talking about the movie when it came out, even - just people talking about Brie Larson and how she behaved in interviews, but NOT the movie itself- and I completely feel that its box office was greatly enhanced by being the last pre-Endgame movie.

Maybe it was good, maybe it wasn't, I don't know, BUT, my gut tells me it only hit that gross because it was positioned correctly for maximum impact. And I think if the X-Men characters rumor turns out to be true, it'll be another case in point.

I get why they need to "protect" that character, since they need their own Wonder Woman/"Strong Feminist Icon who can also pack in a crowd", but it felt a lot more organic with Wonder Woman than it did with that movie/character. It's like Hulk Hogan's totally organic rise in popularity between 1980-1984, versus Ultimate Warrior's completely manufactured rise between 1988-1990. Hogan got over because people liked him, Warrior got over because people were TOLD to like him. Kinda the same thing.

[Coola Yagami]

I didn't see the first one - I kinda never cared about "Captain Copyright Loophole" (Captain Marvel is the guy in the red suit with the lightning bolt, and I'll go to my goddamn grave saying so) - but I think you're right on with this. I never hear anyone talking about that movie, and barely heard anyone talking about the movie when it came out, even - just people talking about Brie Larson and how she behaved in interviews, but NOT the movie itself- and I completely feel that its box office was greatly enhanced by being the last pre-Endgame movie.

Maybe it was good, maybe it wasn't, I don't know, BUT, my gut tells me it only hit that gross because it was positioned correctly for maximum impact. And I think if the X-Men characters rumor turns out to be true, it'll be another case in point.

I get why they need to "protect" that character, since they need their own Wonder Woman/"Strong Feminist Icon who can also pack in a crowd", but it felt a lot more organic with Wonder Woman than it did with that movie/character. It's like Hulk Hogan's totally organic rise in popularity between 1980-1984, versus Ultimate Warrior's completely manufactured rise between 1988-1990. Hogan got over because people liked him, Warrior got over because people were TOLD to like him. Kinda the same thing.

That's how people feel about Roman Reigns, people were TOLD to like him and they weren't havin' it.

And Carol, despite having comics upon comics cancelled cause no one would buy them, is continued to be pushed to the forefront cause Marvel realized maybe 40 or so years too late that they didn't have an iconic woman for the franchise the way DC had Wonder Woman almost since day one.

I love Marvel but even I have to admit they dropped the ball there. Sure we had Storm, but she's with the X-Men and rarely had a solo series. She-Hulk, but she's a female Hulk. Wonder Woman was not Bagirl or Supergirl, she was her own unique thing with her own unique backstory.

This weird plan to somehow take Carol out of the Miss Marvel role and shove her into the Captain Marvel role and then push her to the forefront practically telling people either you like her or you hate all women is just not the way to do it Marvel.

[Leo656]

I was gonna say "What about She-Hulk?" but you kinda addressed it... although, she's barely anything like Hulk, character-wise, most of the time. I guess she's hardly "iconic" but she's one of the first Marvel Women I think of when asked. Plus, it doesn't hurt a thing that She-Hulk is deliberately super-hot.

Maybe that's why she can't be The One. A lot of the time she's cheesecake, and god knows we can't have THAT anymore. :roll: That's not ALL she is, but I guess the very fact that "She-Hulk is hot, and many characters in-story point it out and make reference to it" makes her just too "problematic" for the current model, under which it's shameful to accept and point out that good-looking people are, indeed, Good-Looking.

[Coola Yagami]

I was gonna say "What about She-Hulk?" but you kinda addressed it... although, she's barely anything like Hulk, character-wise, most of the time. I guess she's hardly "iconic" but she's one of the first Marvel Women I think of when asked. Plus, it doesn't hurt a thing that She-Hulk is deliberately super-hot.

Maybe that's why she can't be The One. A lot of the time she's cheesecake, and god knows we can't have THAT anymore. :roll: That's not ALL she is, but I guess the very fact that "She-Hulk is hot, and many characters in-story point it out and make reference to it" makes her just too "problematic" for the current model, under which it's shameful to accept and point out that good-looking people are, indeed, Good-Looking.

Which is why nowadays she regressed sort of into... well... a female Hulk. As in 'Hulk Smash', acting brutish and basically looking like Hulk with long hair and boobs.

Similar to Carol just suddenly losing her figure when she became Captain Marvel.

Marvel just had this weird kink lately where attractive-woman bad, mannish-woman good.

[ranger_scout]

I was only able to stomach through two viewings of Avengers: Infinity War and I don?t know if I can ever watch it again. Mark Ruffalo’s performance in it is way too hammy and cartoonish. It made me feel uncomfortable. His portrayal of Banner/Hulk in that movie was a mesh of both Jim Carrey and Bette Midler. I can handle one, but not both. Another huge disappointment with the MCU is how unprofessional Joss Whedon, the director of the first two Avengers, is. He never once apologized for his revolting behavior on social media. At least James Gunn did for his own behavior and he does seem to have learned his lesson.

[Leo656]

Which is why nowadays she regressed sort of into... well... a female Hulk. As in 'Hulk Smash', acting brutish and basically looking like Hulk with long hair and boobs.

Similar to Carol just suddenly losing her figure when she became Captain Marvel.

Marvel just had this weird kink lately where attractive-woman bad, mannish-woman good.

The Left would prefer to see humanity "evolve" into androgynous, amorphous, figure-less gray blobs so that everything is entirely Neutral, and the less physically-fortunate among us no longer need to feel bad. That's entirely it.

Never mind that we all accepted long ago that such tastes are subjective even if and when there's a consensus on who's considered "beautiful" in general; there can be a consensus but that in no way means that ONLY people in that category can ever be considered attractive. But that's not good enough. Nobody can be allowed to be "beautiful", because some people aren't and it makes them feel bad. Nothing that makes anyone feel bad can be tolerated even a little, and so we all have to be forced into a standard set solely for the purpose of making the physically "Meh" have better self-esteem.

It's screwy, but a bunch of kids who got made fun of in school for being Too Fat, Too Skinny, Too Ugly, Too Nerdy, or whatever else are the people holding all of the pens now, and they want recompense.

We wouldn't be in that kind of situation if people were more secure in themselves, and also accepted the fact that no matter how attractive you are or aren't, there's always someone better and always someone worse, anyway, so overreacting out of spite helps no one. But nah. "Some girls are prettier than me, nobody should ever be allowed to be pretty." That's the rule. So sayeth all the girls who had to settle for Flag Corps when they wanted to be cheerleaders, who all now work for Disney.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I missed this thread until now, but here's my $0.02, in no particular order...

Captain America 3 being Civil War and an Avengers movie, not a straight "The Search for Bucky" story.

Hardly any Scarlet Witch, and killing Quicksilver (a speedster too slow to avoid bullets... how stupid)

Iron Man 3 and the "Mandarin"

Captain Marvel, the entire movie. Snoozefest.

No Black Widow movie until AFTER she dies?

The humor. Just fvcking ALL the humor. Especially in Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Avengers Endgame, and Thor 3 Ragnarok.

Turning Drax the Destroyer and Thor God of Thunder into doofuses who tell dumb jokes.

The villains almost always suck. Malekith especially... they did my man Christopher Eccleston so, so wrong.

No Incredible Hulk 2.

Losing Lady Sif, and replacing her with Valkyrie. Also, Thor giving up his entire kingdom to go play space pirate.

[Andrew NDB]

I missed this thread until now, but here's my $0.02, in no particular order...

Ah! You bring up some things that I omitted.

Hardly any Scarlet Witch, and killing Quicksilver (a speedster too slow to avoid bullets... how stupid)

Which I thought for SURE would come up in the Infinity War/Endgame saga. Like, Thanos would bring him back to life and try and play Scarlet Witch against everybody. Or something. Anything along those lines.

Like everything else I mentioned... just turns out to be NOTHING. I guess Whedon just really wanted to kill him? Weird. Senseless.

Captain Marvel, the entire movie. Snoozefest.

I don't mind it as much as I want to. I mostly just don't like how that final battle went down. Lame.

No Black Widow movie until AFTER she dies?

Still betting there's something going on there. I could be very wrong, as I've been about almost every MCU prediction. apparently.

The humor. Just fvcking ALL the humor. Especially in Guardians of the Galaxy 2, Avengers Endgame, and Thor 3 Ragnarok.

Especially Thor 3.

No Incredible Hulk 2.

A bit weird, isn't it? Marvel was able to play ball with Universal on things... but just a hard no go from Disney? Why?

Losing Lady Sif, and replacing her with Valkyrie.

Yes! Yes! I wish I'd mentioned this. From what I can tell it's literally like the actress was punished because she appeared on Agents of SHIELD twice. I guess she was asked to return for Thor 3 for something small... though I'm pretty sure it was intended to be something like the scene where the warriors are quickly killed by Hela.

Also, Thor giving up his entire kingdom to go play space pirate.[/B]

Yeah, getting pretty tired of Thor dallying about "maybe I take up the throne" and then "nah."

[drgon78]

CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy I agree with everything you just said.

[Leo656]

Like everything else I mentioned... just turns out to be NOTHING. I guess Whedon just really wanted to kill him? Weird. Senseless.



That was soooo stupid. I really hate studio dick-waving matches.

Frankly, I was never in love with the "Quicksilver" in the X-Men movies like everyone else is/was - he's a Set Piece, not a "character", and it's a funny gag but they recycled it to the point where it wasn't as funny or memorable after the first time - so I was very wide open to seeing a new, and possible even better take on the character in "Age of Ultron".

Nope. "We're pissy about having to share rights to this character, so rather than just not use them, we're going to use them once - somewhat stupidly - and then just kill him off." To... accomplish what? To taint the name of the "Quicksilver" character, or something? That's all I can think of. "HAH! Those X-Men movies are so dumb, they're using a character that's such a scrub, he died in his first appearance in OUR movies, but in Those Movies he's a big player! HAH! They must have a weak crop of characters, huh? Cuz in our universe 'Quicksilver' is a loser! Nyah nyah!"

Had to be that. It's too much like when guys in TNA/Impact Wrestling are World Champion, then go to WWE and do nothing but look stupid... to prove that they're a "better" company. "Your company's Champ can't even beat our company's scrubs! What a joke!"

Same kind of petty nonsense. That was a real boner in my opinion. Not necessarily killing him off, but to have it be so pointless and apparently never even reference him again.

[Andrew NDB]

Frankly, I was never in love with the "Quicksilver" in the X-Men movies like everyone else is/was

Yeah. And he quickly became a joke. Like, "I wonder when the 1 Quicksilver running fast scene scene will be in this X-Men movie?"

[oldmanwinters]

Once a character is established to be as powerful as the X-movies made Quicksilver, you have to contrive reasons to sideline him for the decisive battles so that he doesn't single-handedly solve the main problem. Either it's "he just wants to go back home" (First Class) or "he got injured" (Dark Phoenix).

[Cure]

Frankly, I was never in love with the "Quicksilver" in the X-Men movies like everyone else is/was - he's a Set Piece, not a "character", and it's a funny gag but they recycled it to the point where it wasn't as funny or memorable after the first time - so I was very wide open to seeing a new, and possible even better take on the character in "Age of Ultron".



Quicksilver was in one X-Men movie when Age of Ultron came out.

[PizzaPower1985]

I've been avoiding this thread because I'm a Marvel Comics fan and I have a lot of VENOM to spew. I'll try to be nice and keep it to 5 so I don't rant but... here are MY biggest disappointments (saving my big one for the bottom):

1) Captain America The First Avenger was a great film. The sequels and everything after that have not been the same.

2) Nick Fury should be a white man. And without DumDum Dugan, he's not really himself.

3) Captain Marvel is not Carol Danvers. Carol Danvers IS Ms. Marvel and Binary and if we're being generous, Warbird... at one point in continuity she was even related to Rogue. Where the F*** is Mar-Vel? Stop the revisionist B.S.

4) The F.F. should have made the first MCU film, not Iron Man. In fact, without the F.F. why is it even called the MCU exactly? Heard they were being introduced soon and I no longer care.

5) An Avengers team without Wonder Man? Seriously? The banter and arguments between him and Cap alone would have been GOLD!

Extra: An MCU without X-men (or the F.F.) leaves a lot of questions for me. I'm bitter and old I guess.

Also, the costumes pretty much suck nearly across the board. The only ones who remotely look like the characters are: Black Panther, Cap (in his first film), and Iron Man. Even Hulk's face has little to do with the Hulked out Banner of the comics but Ruffalo doesn't look like Bruce either so. He's not lanky enough. Now Ed Norton made a good Banner.

And now the BIG ONE:

Robert Downey Jr. IS NOT Tony Stark. The suit looks great but Downey is playing a different character. He's Stark in name only. The Tony I know, from his classic stories, was NOT A GOOF. The Tony I know had a lot of self doubt and a lot of angst. Downey just plays him like Chandler Bing from Friends i.e. "I make jokes and use humor and sarcasm as a defense mechanism because deep down I'm really sad and conflicted."

Downey is not Tony!

[TMNTFanatic4Life]

Biggest one for me is The Mandarin. Some liked that twist but I didnt. Give me the real Mandarin as a main villain!


And just a smaller one as a nitpick rather than a disappointment....I wish Bucky got Cap's Shield at the end in Endgame instead of Sam.

[sdp]

2) Nick Fury should be a white man. And without DumDum Dugan, he's not really himself.

4) The F.F. should have made the first MCU film, not Iron Man. In fact, without the F.F. why is it even called the MCU exactly? Heard they were being introduced soon and I no longer care.

5) An Avengers team without Wonder Man? Seriously? The banter and arguments between him and Cap alone would have been GOLD!

Robert Downey Jr. IS NOT Tony Stark. The suit looks great but Downey is playing a different character. He's Stark in name only. The Tony I know, from his classic stories, was NOT A GOOF. The Tony I know had a lot of self doubt and a lot of angst. Downey just plays him like Chandler Bing from Friends i.e. "I make jokes and use humor and sarcasm as a defense mechanism because deep down I'm really sad and conflicted."

Downey is not Tony!

I prefer White Nick Fury as well but when Ultimate Fury was modeled after Samuel L Jackson, it'd be dumb not to use him, literally perfect casting.

To me the lack of Antman and Wasp in Avengers was a bigger no, no. Wonder Man is lame to me, but I understood. But having Ultron without Antman? poor choice.

To me Iron Man was always boring until the movie, Downey was what made the character work for me (and most of the people), let's be honest despite being in the Avengers, Iron Man wasn't exactly an A lister before the movie, he might've been big with comic fans but that's about it.

[Coola Yagami]

Funny thing is, before the movie I never knew Iron Man was well... an Iron Man so to speak. Appearance-wise in the few comics I've seen him in, Iron Man isn't that much bigger than the rest of the heroes, so I never had the idea he was a dude in a suit of armor like that. Plus I had no idea of the shrapnel in his heart and the reactor thing that tied him not just to the suit but to his heart.

[Andrew NDB]

Rewatching the MCU with my daughter, who is watching it all for the first time. Actually by her request... for years she didn't want to watch any comic book movies, really. At least superhero ones. I think her new little buddies are into them and she wants to know what the hubbub is about.

We just finished Winter Soldier, about to rewatch Guardians and then get into Avengers 2 and all that.

Anyway, some new irritations that occur to me:

* Lady Sif, yes, big setup and 0 payoff. Everything comes down to that 2nd Thor movie -- that's where the wheels came off. There was great potential there, destroyed by "Let's make this mostly a Loki story and cut everything else out." Though... I know there was a lot more Dark Elves stuff cut out but do we even know if there was good Lady Sif stuff left on the cutting room floor at all? If not, that was a design flaw to begin with. I thought I remember Jamie Alexander commenting that there was a big thing cut out, but it's been many years and I'm hazy on it.

* The mind stone being inside Loki's scepter. I don't think this was originally the plan at all and it's a big stretch to make it out that Loki was running around with two Infinity stones... moreso that Thanos was OK with that and even sponsoring that.

* Making the Captain America "trilogy" a big event thing. The first movie is almost a perfect movie and script... then they go and do two back-to-back big MCU-level event movies that should have been standalone things. Which could be excused except... where is the "real" Captain America 2 or 3? There seems to be no interest.

* Black Widow and Hawkeye. I DO have higher hopes than most for the Black Widow movie, but it's largely too little too late at this stage, especially for Hawkeye. 10 years later, we finally get a Hawkeye project... and it's apparently a "passing the torch" nonsense already? Pfft. gtfoh.

* I see really no compelling reason we couldn't have got a proper Iron Man 4 in the midst of Phase 3.

My daughter's thoughts. Well, these are all PG-13 movies and this is a 13 year-old kid... so I guess they're for her, anyway. Generally speaking:

* She loves all 3 of the Iron Man movies. Laughed a lot.

* Considers the Captain America movies the "second worst" of the bunch, the last of which being the "Hulk" movies, consisting of only the Norton movie which is all she's seen. I considered showing her the Eric Bana Hulk movie first, which DOES exist as a stealth prequel to the Norton movie, but nah.

* Likes that Tony doesn't get along with Steve much.

* Seems to really like Pepper Potts. Also, Black Widow.

And that's about it.

[neatoman]

I have always been under the assumption that there were more than a few changes in the plans when it came to the Infinity Stones. Like I seriously doubt Loki's staff is the only one that was changed to be one, I'm betting the Tesseract and Aether were also not really meant to be Infinity Stones either and I'm guessing the Eye of Agamotto wasn't one in the earlier drafts of Doctor Strange either. It just kind of seems like someone realised it wasn't a good idea to dedicate several movies to introducing the majority of these things and just reworked a bunch of already established plot devices to being them.

That's probably the main reason they have different colors than they did in the comics. It doesn't make much sense to change such a detail just because. Obviously in the comics, the Cosmic Cube, Vision's Solar Gem and the Eye of Agamotto have nothing to with the Infinity Gems, nor does the powers of Carol, Wanda or Pietro.

Like if I had to guess, I'd say they originally planned on adapting the earlier Thanos story where he used the Cosmic Cube but instead went with the Infinity Gauntlet when they realised they could make more more movies.

[Leo656]

Like everybody else, they just made 90% of it up as they went along, tweaking and retconning things to fit as necessary. You'll never convince me otherwise.

Disney/Marvel gets a ton of credit for "having a clear plan and sticking to it" with regard to their shared universe, but that's nonsense. You can see the Scotch tape everywhere if you bother to look. They simply do a better job of burying/hiding any behind-the-scenes shake-ups and drama than WB and other companies do, and the movies are generally crowd-pleasing enough so that any attempts to point out inconsistencies gets you smacked for "thinking too hard." After all, "They're just goofy super-hero movies, man! Don't overthink it! Geez!"

[IMJ]

The truth about the MCU is that they are event movies and they gave people something to be excited about. Combine that with the general level of self-centered focus from people who go through life reacting instead of thinking, and you'll find that there was often over-excitment and over-gratification upon an MCU release.

There is actually a lot of lackluster content and some very crap content amidst those flicks. Again, when Iron Man 3 came out, there was a world of mouth-breathers out there literally telling everyone that it was "the best Marvel Movie YET!" which is incredibly far from the truth. Marvel Studios would have you believe that Captain Marvel had filled theaters and that their weren't 2 completely forgettable Thor flicks.

The same people who came out of theaters championing the "groundbreaking black superhero masterpiece" of Black Panther ignored movies like Blade from 20 years earlier. Those same people felt the best criticism they could give Iron Man 2 was that "there's too much Avengers setup" even though that's not even a valid criticism of that movie.

The point is that there are a lot of Marvel movie missteps that are covered up by the general mouth breather population.

[drgon78]

I love the first two captain America movies, but to the 3rd one is an Avengers 2.5 more then anything else.

[Leo656]

Yeah, the first Captain America flick was one of the ones I really, really liked, and I was disappointed that it was quickly made obvious how less time going forward was going to be spent on his as his own character and more on him as "an Avenger", and everything that went with that.

The Ups and Downs of a shared cinematic universe, I guess. Once it becomes clear that "an event" is on the horizon, all stories and characters merely become part of the build to that event, and the individual pieces become less important than the larger whole.

[neatoman]

What I meant the cosmic cube plan isn't so much a "plan" and more of a "we'll do this if we don't get to make a trillion movies".

Basically imagine this, Avengers ends with the Thanos cliffhanger, correct? So as the movie made a crazy amount of money as did Iron Man 3, they went ahead and made the following movies about collecting the Infinity Stones, which if I remember correctly, were never directly mentioned until Guardians of the Galaxy.

However, imagine a scenario in which Avengers still made money, but closer to 700 million or so. In this scenario they might not be entirely confident they will get to 20 movies like they did. Thus, instead of making a bunch of movies establishing the Infinity Gems, the Tesseract can just turn out to be a Cosmic Cube in need of more charge and that what Thanos would use, maybe around movie 10 or so.

Of course they're just making crap up as they go along, I'm just saying it's probably no coincidence the Tesseract looks just like a Cosmic Cube, because that's probably what it would have been if they didn't get to make a phase 3.

[sdp]

Wasn't the Thanos ending of Avengers added in the last moments by Whedon just to add something at the end for extra "umph"? If Avengers hadn't made a lot of money perhaps they would've continued to try to make the MCU more grounded like the phase 1 movies were

[Andrew NDB]

They definitely had the stones on the brain as early as Thor (the gauntlet in Asgard that got retconned later on) but certainly with Thor 2. When Odin is doing his big spiel about the Aether, he mentions the other gems, which is mentions "usually are stones, except the Aether....which keeps a liquid state."

[ranger_scout]

That Disney hired a terrible person like Joss Whedon to direct the first two Avengers films and for picking an actor to play the Hulk whose acting made me feel very uncomfortable in Avengers: Infinity War that I could never watch it again after two viewings. That actor is also controversial on a multitude of levels and needs to stop being so woke with his protests and on his social media accounts.

Mark Ruffalo apologizes for tweet suggesting Israel committed ‘genocide’ (https://nypost.com/2021/05/25/mark-ruffalo-apologizes-for-saying-israel-committed-genocide/)

[Coola Yagami]

That Disney hired a terrible person like Joss Whedon to direct the first two Avengers films and for picking an actor to play the Hulk whose acting made me feel very uncomfortable in Avengers: Infinity War that I could never watch it again after two viewings. That actor is also controversial on a multitude of levels and needs to stop being so woke with his protests and on his social media accounts.

Mark Ruffalo apologizes for tweet suggesting Israel committed ‘genocide’ (https://nypost.com/2021/05/25/mark-ruffalo-apologizes-for-saying-israel-committed-genocide/)

Who cares?

And what about his acting in Infinity War in particular made you uncomfortable??

[sdp]

I know that I am not known for posting unpopular opinions but Avengers 1 is mediocre, there's just nothing exciting about it.

[ranger_scout]

And what about his acting in Infinity War in particular made you uncomfortable??

His entire performance, but the moments where he was constantly trying to make the Hulk come out were especially bad. Bruce wasn't as smart that time around and was just simply coming across hammy buffoon throughout the entire movie. I felt like was watching someone playing a superhero like Jim Carrey or Bette Midler would and that just doesn't work in the world of superheros.

[Coola Yagami]

I know that I am not known for posting unpopular opinions but Avengers 1 is mediocre, there's just nothing exciting about it.

To be honest the movie was a very straightforward plot. The whole point was just the spectacle of seeing all of these characters crossover and really start off the the whole 'cinematic universe' thing.

It's the equivalent of if we saw a movie with Adam West Batman, Linda Carter Wonder Woman, Van Williams Green Hornet and Chris Reeves Superman all together back in the day.

[Andrew NDB]

Avengers 1 did what it was supposed to. I was satisfied, as was most of the planet.

[Coola Yagami]

I guess my disappointment was when they brought in Carol and tried to shoe-horn her in there, similar to the comics.

A lot of us were bracing ourselves for Super Carol to come in and one-shot Thanos to save the day. The theater either laughed or cheered when Thanos decked her and sent her out of the fight for a good while.

While people argued about wether or not Tony should have been the one to do it, it made sense, he was there from the beginning and it only made sense it was him as opposed to Carol.

[IMJ]

While people argued about wether or not Tony should have been the one to do it, it made sense, he was there from the beginning and it only made sense it was him as opposed to Carol.

To be honest I've can't say that I've ever seen a single argument from anyone asserting that it should've been Craptain Marvel to defeat Thanos instead of Iron Man.

Most people can't stand Brie's Craptain Marvel, and even if she was likeable, it would have been a huge disservice to ten years of Avengers build-up to have her come in and suddenly resolve the problem for them.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Captain Marvel takes the cake.

Poorly written character played by one of the most narcissistic people on the planet.

[CyberCubed]

It's kind of a shame it feels the movies have just gotten too similar to each other, even the ones that feature completely different settings (like sci-fi or on Earth, etc), or different heroes. Now it feels like you've seen one, you've seen them all.

[ToTheNines]

Captain Marvel takes the cake.

Poorly written character played by one of the most narcissistic people on the planet.

Deadass. I love Carol in the comics, so it’s very disappointing. She should have been cast as someone in her 40’s or even 50’s that was somewhat physically imposing. Brie’s personality sucks but she also looks like you could snap her like a twig.

[CyberCubed]

The MCU feels so done to me, and has for awhile. I can't think of the last movie I truly enjoyed beyond like a 7/10 which to me means average and nothing special. Guardians 3 maybe? Deadpool/Wolverine but that barely counts.

Every movie now just feels forgettable where even if I kind of like it while I'm watching, by like a week later I've already forgotten it and don't care about it anymore.

[IMJ]

They've now spent 6.5 years building an MCU with characters that people not only don't care about, but many of which are maligned by fans. By the time Doomsday comes out, it will be 7.5 years since Endgame.

If this movie has legs at all it will 100% be on the back of "what is going on with Iron Man" - basically a 2nd tier effect much like how people paid to see Craptain Marvel simply because it was thought to be "required viewing" before Endgame.

[Mr. Entertainment]

The Mandarin is a big one. Not really a "disappointment" in terms of the overall scale of the MCU, but I do wish Black Widow and Hawkeye started out as villains before transitioning into heroes in The Avengers.

The directionless path of Hulk and pointless arcs that were grafted onto the character were pretty disappointing as well. I guess that's what happens when you don't have any solo films to flesh out your mythology enough.

[Andrew NDB]

The Mandarin is a big one.

It's kind of "next level" disappointing. We'd already pretty much made peace with never seeing a proper Mandarin on screen ever after Iron Man 3 but then came the "All Hail the King" short. Then our excitement gets built up again only for a long wait until Shang-Chi and it's all a nothingburger. In fact, the name Mandarin is laughable to him.

[Autbot_Benz]

Taika “ I hate Thor comics” Waititi making Thor an incompetent idiot in love and blunder. I hope the Russo ignore that in the next avengers movie

[IMJ]

The Mandarin is a big one. Not really a "disappointment" in terms of the overall scale of the MCU, but I do wish Black Widow and Hawkeye started out as villains before transitioning into heroes in The Avengers.

The directionless path of Hulk and pointless arcs that were grafted onto the character were pretty disappointing as well. I guess that's what happens when you don't have any solo films to flesh out your mythology enough.

Ugh. The Mandarin in the MCU.... omfg don't get me started on that one again....