Article: Dark Origins and History of TMNT

[PizzaPower1985]

Most of us seasoned TMNT vets know this stuff, so it's nothing new here BUT there may be a couple hidden gems of knowledge that you didn't know... so here it is. If nothing else the panels are beautiful to revisit.

https://www.ranker.com/list/dark-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-origins/zack-howe?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=snspost&pgid=128472013912354&utm_campaign=dark-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles&fbclid=IwAR2m1Fms4y2YPq1S0R8dllJF4zfN4QOWyAKFtfECB FlAWh3G_h5cIuE60Gc

[80gmrp]

I’m not sure if the political part applies to their main point: their example was not from the mid 80s source material, but, instead, from the Archie comics. Then again, I lean slightly to the right myself, so what do I know?

Beyond that, it was a good read, even if it seemed a bit like a long rant, and good to know Laird also has doubts about the direction of TMNT.

[Galactus]

I wouldn't say that Casey was a deranged killer in the comics. He can go too far but when he accidentally killed the kid in Shades of Grey he's shaken to the core.

Also the idea that the 80s animated series came up with the turtles personalities has long rubbed me the wrong way. The second issue basically sets up their core personality traits instantly. I get it's not as pronounced or as in your face as the animated series but it's there, I've never liked David Wise taking credit for creating the turtles signature personality traits and I'm somewhat puzzled why they give the credit to Chuck Lorre here.

I've never been quite at ease with the idea that Splinter raised the turtles just to be his instruments of revenge. It's clear that he does love his sons and I feel maybe this would have been presented differently if peter and Kevin knew they'd do more than one issue.

Other than that...yeah cool article.

[PizzaPower1985]

I wouldn't say that Casey was a deranged killer in the comics. He can go too far but when he accidentally killed the kid in Shades of Grey he's shaken to the core.

Also the idea that the 80s animated series came up with the turtles personalities has long rubbed me the wrong way. The second issue basically sets up their core personality traits instantly. I get it's not as pronounced or as in your face as the animated series but it's there, I've never liked David Wise taking credit for creating the turtles signature personality traits and I'm somewhat puzzled why they give the credit to Chuck Lorre here.

I've never been quite at ease with the idea that Splinter raised the turtles just to be his instruments of revenge. It's clear that he does love his sons and I feel maybe this would have been presented differently if peter and Kevin knew they'd do more than one issue.

Other than that...yeah cool article.


^^^^^^

The David Wise thing is something I have a real problem with too. Going back and rereading Mirage right now since I recently finished issue 100 of IDW and yeah, the turtle personalities are pretty well fleshed out by Eastman and Laird. The most Wise could take credit for is making Raphael funny and giving Mikey the surfer mentality. But the basic personalities to the toon turtles come out of Mirage.

And Casey's not much of a killer, you're right. He's got a moral compass and the death of the kid shakes him pretty hard.

As far as revenge, in the first issue it is heavily implied that confronting the Shredder and his subsequent execution, was the sole reason the boys were trained. But later issues have Splinter more or less training them to be do-gooders and use their skills to be helpful. It's more of a development that came to better round out the story because, originally, Eastman and Laird had no intentions of ever doing a 2nd issue or telling anymore turtle stories.

[Leo656]

Another "(Not So) Hidden Facts" list about TMNT, another quarter in the "Did You Know April Wasn't White?" Jar.

Except yes she wasssssss and it's really annoying when articles pretend they know what they're talking about and act all "insider", and then they let it slip that Oops, nah, they did all their "research" on message boards and other Listicles of dubious and mixed quality.

Otherwise, eh, no new information but short and to the point. But man, that one just ain't going away no matter how many times it's been debunked. Sigh. "Journalism".

[80gmrp]

Another "(Not So) Hidden Facts" list about TMNT, another quarter in the "Did You Know April Wasn't White?" Jar.

Except yes she wasssssss and it's really annoying when articles pretend they know what they're talking about and act all "insider", and then they let it slip that Oops, nah, they did all their "research" on message boards and other Listicles of dubious and mixed quality.

Didn't catch that part of the article, admittedly, but then, I was skimming to see if there was any mention of other characters. Shame that yet another article may have gotten it wrong.

Still, what I didn't know was, again, Laird not liking the FW cartoon and having doubts about the direction TMNT is headed. If he was responsible for reverting LH back to his roots in the 2003 series, then I'm hoping that means something regarding the franchise's future should he step in again.

[Leo656]

Yeah, it's a quick line at the very end of April's entry.

I get that a certain section of the fans sincerely wishes that it were true, but it ain't. It was a misunderstanding/urban legend that got way, way out of hand and nothing more than that. Falsehoods don't become Fact no matter how often they're repeated, and the Journalism student in me bristles whenever people do lazy or sloppy research on any kind of "official" article. It's one thing to get things wrong when a person is shooting the sh*t on a message board, but to get paid to write an "article" you should at least take care to get the facts right.

Big "oops", small "oops", it always bugs me because you're supposed to do better than that.

[PizzaPower1985]

That's kind of a point of contention with me as well. On the one hand, I would love a black April in a gritty, serious series or film BUT on the other hand if it were done, it wouldn't be worth it because then you'd have the "April is black" choir singing to the rest of us "Seeeee, We Told You! April is black and she always was and you were wrong and they finally did it right."

As cool an idea as I think it is, the rest of us would just have to point at the history of Mirage and yet again "disprove" the myth that's already been de-bunked.

So yeah, black April? Cool idea BUT not worth it!

[Leo656]

Eh, race-flipping is 100% of the time a big Thumbs Down from me.

Even when it's executed well - which I guess would be Laurence Fishburne as Perry White and Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin and just about nobody else - it's still annoying because that's not accurate. That's not what those characters look like.

Chris Hemsworth ain't never gonna play either Blade nor Malcolm X no matter how popular he gets, and if the idea ever came up people would pitch a fit, with good reason. So it's disingenuous to pretend it's okay "sometimes" as long as it's done "properly" (read: Turning white characters into Not-White characters because "Too many Honkies" is a legitimate problem to some people). No, it's not okay. It's pandering, and it's creatively bankrupt. And as you pointed out, it gives just, some of the worst people something to crow about without any just cause.

Just Say No, says I.

[PizzaPower1985]

Eh, race-flipping is 100% of the time a big Thumbs Down from me.

Even when it's executed well - which I guess would be Laurence Fishburne as Perry White and Michael Clarke Duncan as Kingpin and just about nobody else - it's still annoying because that's not accurate. That's not what those characters look like.

Chris Hemsworth ain't never gonna play either Blade nor Malcolm X no matter how popular he gets, and if the idea ever came up people would pitch a fit, with good reason. So it's disingenuous to pretend it's okay "sometimes" as long as it's done "properly" (read: Turning white characters into Not-White characters because "Too many Honkies" is a legitimate problem to some people). No, it's not okay. It's pandering, and it's creatively bankrupt. And as you pointed out, it gives just, some of the worst people something to crow about without any just cause.

Just Say No, says I.


Yeah. I'm for fictional characters being "ethnically correct" in adaptations.
Harvey Dent was ruined in Batman '89 because never had I seen him with Billy Dee's mustache in the books. As handsome as Lando Dent was, it wasn't Harvey. Tommy Lee Jones looked and acted perfect as Harvey Dent but the garish makeup/performance of Two-Face in Forever wasn't Harvey either.

There are also those who say Lex Luthor is or should be black because *sigh* in Superman TAS and JLU he was black. No, excuse me, his appearance was based on Telly Savalas, one of the greatest Greek-American actors of any time ever... again, not black.

There's a lot of this kind of $hit goin' round in the name of diversity. You wanna be diverse? Make a Spawn, Blade, Black Panther, Luke Cage or Falcon movie every 2 years. Don't turn white characters black and dear god, please don't turn black characters white.

The only reason I mention a black April is I heard Kevin in an interview about the now defunct Netflix TMNT say that HIS version of a TMNT show would be dark, gritty, serious and he hinted at her being black. If she was, and if the series got made, I'd be so ravenous for a dark gritty serious TMNT that, by that point, black April wouldnt bother me (as long as she was NOT a news reporter). I'm literally starving for some adult TMNT over here. It's so bad that I'm weak and emaciated. I constantly have to keep sucking on the Mirage and IDW teet for nourishment and it's a bit like eating meatloaf every night for a year. I want something NEW.

But,
I'm with ya' Leo. Race swapping for diversity is just bad, intellectually lazy and creatively bankrupt. It's like a lot of those "fans" on FB wanting Micheal B. Jordan or Idris Elba to be the next Superman... Are we making a multiverse movie? Okay, maybe. But Kal-El, Clark Kent, the real Superman... is white with black hair. He's also not short, blond-haired or a freckle-faced ginger. Read the comics. Look at the drawings, but now we're talkin' Supes and I'm preachin' to the choir so...

[Leo656]

I mean, I always assumed that Lex Luthor was either Russian, German, or a combination thereof. Maaaybe the cartoon gave him a bit of a tan, but this is the first I'm hearing that anyone read that as "Black". How odd.

Point of fact, "Luthor" is German, and even though it's more recently been retconned to "Lex" being short for "Alexander" as is most common, Luthor's first name was originally short for "Alexei" in-canon for many decades, which is apparently Russian by way of Greek. So maybe he's a smidge Greek, but otherwise, yeah, he's Russian/German. Two races of people who are, let's say, Big Fans of keeping the coffee and the creamer far away from each other, if you catch my meaning. So the odds are, aside from maybe having a little bit of Greek in him somewhere way back, Lex Luthor is, like, as white as you can get if you spend at least two seconds doing the math on it. And that's fine, it perfectly fits his character as being an outspoken bigoted xenophobe. Making him non-white and still being racist against aliens might add a veneer of dramatic irony, but let's face it... it would be total nonsense. A guy with his genetic heritage has a 99% chance of being white, let's just let that be the way it is rather than jump through 28 hoops to explain how someone with such deep-rooted Russian/German ancestry might accidentally turn out black. It's about as likely as someone with the last name "O'Neil" being anything but Scots-Irish with red hair and green eyes, let's put it that way.

I mean you can force anything to be Anything, but why bother? If it's a novel, and there's a character named "Seamus McDonnell", there's a 1% chance it's anything from a black guy to a Japanese guy to whatever, and you can imagine them in your head to look like just about anything, but let's be real... it's a short, stocky little Irish guy with a crew cut, probably wearing a ball cap. Likewise, if I read about a character named "Jerome Washington DuBois"... c'mon, man, I have to assume that's a black guy, but at least I'm giving the author points for not naming them "Darrel". :lol: Like some things just are what they are, and that should be Fine.

It's always just better to come up with a new character rather than "flip" an existing one to a new race or orientation or whatever. If your character is strong it should easily be able to survive on its own merits without a problem, rather than needing a famous name and reputation to coast on so people will "have" to accept them.

With regard to April, one problem with this falsehood constantly being reported as fact is you just know that it's gonna seep into the next movie as well - they pretty much HAVE to go there - which is gonna lead to more erroneous "Did You Know..." articles and the whole thing - which has already been put to bed numerous times, I'll remind - is going to get even more muddy and that's super-duper annoying. I forget who it was, but one of the members here, I believe, did a very long and detailed explanation on the entire April "controversy" some years ago, and it was pretty conclusive. I was sincerely hoping that was gonna be the Last Word on the subject, but I overlooked people's common insistence on seeing only what they want to. Doesn't make it any less annoying, though.

Like, people can speculate on whether she could've been, should've been, might've been, whether it would be Better or Worse if she was created that way from the start... fair game, that's just conversation. But some people are just never gonna let the "But April was black!" thing go, even though No, she totally wasn't. And frankly, I get really annoyed when people act like that.

[PizzaPower1985]

I?m not sure if the political part applies to their main point: their example was not from the mid 80s source material, but, instead, from the Archie comics. Then again, I lean slightly to the right myself, so what do I know?

Beyond that, it was a good read, even if it seemed a bit like a long rant, and good to know Laird also has doubts about the direction of TMNT.

I'm kind of curious myself, and a little annoyed, as to how environmentalism and things like that Archie bit, always have to be painted as politically left or propagandist with regards to fiction. Maybe it was propaganda when it was published, but these days, by this time, isn't environmentalism and Earth Day largely accepted as a positive thing? Are we still using the political brush to paint agendas like that as somehow "propagandist"???? What if he had pointed out a gay character in a comic book and labelled it as politically left? Why does everything have to be? I guess anything that's going to be viewed as a social issue, even by this unprofessional, non-journalistic writer, is going to get painted as such. But then again, this was published in the U.S. where Senator Inholfe took a snowball and a patch of ice into Congress to disprove "climate change" so... At any rate CAN WE STOP BEING SO BLATANTLY POLITICAL in our comic books? That's why modern Marvel books suck so bad. If we want social issues to be highlighted can we not do it where it really matters, either in the streets or in the political arena? Now, I'm all for social justice, but we all need to stop feeding that political dragon so we can get good comics again. Comics are not documentaries. They are largely adventure fiction. Politics has its place. But it shouldnt be everywhere, particularly when I'm trying to escape the world and read about Ninja Turtles.

[frank_one]

At this point in time everyone on the planet knows at least a bit of the Turtles' origins, so there're really no "hidden" or "obscure" facts about it. Everything is ready for everyone to be read on wikipedia or on thousands of other places across the net.

[PizzaPower1985]

Agreed. It's the same thing as those "YOU THINK YOU KNOW COMICS" videos that Comics Alliance makes. They just state the most obvious $hit that everyone has already heard.

You think you know Batman? He's actually a playboy industrialist whose parents were murdered. News Flash: His name is Bruce Wayne.

You think you know Superman? You probably didn't know that he was an alien from a planet called Krypton.

You think you know Hellboy? Guess what? He's a demon. OMG.

It's just asinine!

[Leo656]

I actually think that in 1990 when it was going on in the Archie books, the eco-preachy stuff was a bit more "neutral", and it's really only become more of a "Left" thing recently. Back then we all had to make the Earth Day posters in art class and all our teachers had us watching those videos about the hole in the ozone layer and convinced us that we were all gonna save the world by nagging our parents to separate all their plastics. It didn't seem to be a political thing, so much as maybe a fad? Especially since by 1993, nobody gave a sh*t about Earth Day anymore. But man, that was the hot ish for a minute. But in hindsight, yeah, kinda makes the whole "Save The Planet" thing seem like a passing fancy, and the TMNT were merely on board that train at the same time everyone else was.

Made sense to me. Not only were kids being inundated with those messages anyway, but the Turtles and their compatriots in the Archie series were mostly animals, so it made more sense to see THEM spreading that message than in, say, issues of the Real Ghostbusters comics, where the same message would pop up and was ALSO well-intentioned, but rang much more hollow given that it was coming in a comic book starring characters whose entire first adventure (in film) was about telling the EPA to go f*ck themselves. The Ghostbusters and their Unlicensed Nuclear Accelerators preaching to kids about the environment felt hollow and disingenuous; I'm no tree-hugger, but having the TMNT spread that message kinda just felt like common sense. Of COURSE a bunch of talking animals are gonna go around telling kids not to throw trash in the water. I'unno how anyone could've complained about it.

What I remember a lot more pushback about at the time, was NOT the eco-preaching, but about the Turtles being exposed to various world religions in their journeys. THAT led to a few not-so-nice letters being printed where parents and older siblings railed against the book for filling the young readers' heads with "Zen garbage" and "New-Age crap". That was the temperature among readers at the time TMNTA was actually in print: Preach about the environment all you want, that's just responsible, but you better not teach these kids about anything that isn't White Christian Jesus or we're gonna pitch a fit! :lol: And I mean, I get it, it was "ostensibly" a kids book, but c'mon, lighten up. The Superman books did a whole arc about Middle Eastern terrorists from "Qurac" around the same time, and kids read those books and nobody pitched a fit, they just said "Wow, that's topical". I'unno.

But anyways, yeah, people weren't whining about the eco-preaching stuff in TMNTA Back Then, it's just become more fashionable in recent years to complain about it, as older readers go back to it with a modern, more politically-polarized lens and say "Wow... that's all about as subtle as a chair to the head, isn't it?" And it's a fair observation, BUT, as Grandpa Simpson would say, "It was The Style at the time." The Sonic comics weren't much better about it, and again, nobody really complained.

Just a few observations from an Old Goat who was there as it was happening and remembers what the temperature was at the time. :)

[PizzaPower1985]

I actually think that in 1990 when it was going on in the Archie books, the eco-preachy stuff was a bit more "neutral", and it's really only become more of a "Left" thing recently. Back then we all had to make the Earth Day posters in art class and all our teachers had us watching those videos about the hole in the ozone layer and convinced us that we were all gonna save the world by nagging our parents to separate all their plastics. It didn't seem to be a political thing, so much as maybe a fad? Especially since by 1993, nobody gave a sh*t about Earth Day anymore. But man, that was the hot ish for a minute. But in hindsight, yeah, kinda makes the whole "Save The Planet" thing seem like a passing fancy, and the TMNT were merely on board that train at the same time everyone else was.

Made sense to me. Not only were kids being inundated with those messages anyway, but the Turtles and their compatriots in the Archie series were mostly animals, so it made more sense to see THEM spreading that message than in, say, issues of the Real Ghostbusters comics, where the same message would pop up and was ALSO well-intentioned, but rang much more hollow given that it was coming in a comic book starring characters whose entire first adventure (in film) was about telling the EPA to go f*ck themselves. The Ghostbusters and their Unlicensed Nuclear Accelerators preaching to kids about the environment felt hollow and disingenuous; I'm no tree-hugger, but having the TMNT spread that message kinda just felt like common sense. Of COURSE a bunch of talking animals are gonna go around telling kids not to throw trash in the water. I'unno how anyone could've complained about it.

What I remember a lot more pushback about at the time, was NOT the eco-preaching, but about the Turtles being exposed to various world religions in their journeys. THAT led to a few not-so-nice letters being printed where parents and older siblings railed against the book for filling the young readers' heads with "Zen garbage" and "New-Age crap". That was the temperature among readers at the time TMNTA was actually in print: Preach about the environment all you want, that's just responsible, but you better not teach these kids about anything that isn't White Christian Jesus or we're gonna pitch a fit! :lol: And I mean, I get it, it was "ostensibly" a kids book, but c'mon, lighten up. The Superman books did a whole arc about Middle Eastern terrorists from "Qurac" around the same time, and kids read those books and nobody pitched a fit, they just said "Wow, that's topical". I'unno.

But anyways, yeah, people weren't whining about the eco-preaching stuff in TMNTA Back Then, it's just become more fashionable in recent years to complain about it, as older readers go back to it with a modern, more politically-polarized lens and say "Wow... that's all about as subtle as a chair to the head, isn't it?" And it's a fair observation, BUT, as Grandpa Simpson would say, "It was The Style at the time." The Sonic comics weren't much better about it, and again, nobody really complained.

Just a few observations from an Old Goat who was there as it was happening and remembers what the temperature was at the time. :)

Nailed it shut. Well said. And I also remember the TURTLE TIPS PSAs that were about saving the planet too. Those were fun.

[mikey0]

Nailed it shut. Well said. And I also remember the TURTLE TIPS PSAs that were about saving the planet too. Those were fun.

These too:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-AceMbi6t8oI/WtoTbdqKBzI/AAAAAAAADEw/sX3ZHUqYiEE5WcflE_jV8ew_vG-Hd-RdQCLcBGAs/s1600/Turtle%2Bcover.jpg

https://mrrobertclarksclass.weebly.com/uploads/4/2/0/6/42060777/recycle-dude_orig.jpg

Totally very early 90s! Save the ozone layer!

[Leo656]

I grew up in a bad neighborhood and haven't seen that bottom photo in years. Now I swear Donnie's cooking up crack and I can't un-see it. :lol: Thanks, Random Guy.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

It didn't seem to be a political thing, so much as maybe a fad?

Environmentalism have come in series since the 1970's.

The first wave was in the 1970's and 80's, when people started taking Rachel Carson's warning serious. It was a about dying forests, dangerous chemicals and poisoned waters and nuclear power. Back then, it was usually thought that developed had major environmental problems.

The second wave was in the early 1990's, with Captain Planet, Toxic Crusaders, TMNT Adventures, TMNT ABC for a Better Planet and Turtle Tips. It peaked in June 1992 with the United Nations Conference in Rio de Janeiro, Brazil.

The third wave was in the early 2000's when Al Gore talked about the environmental consequences of flying.

The fourth wave was in the 2010's, as a reaction on Donald Trump blaming global warming on China. The wave culimated in 2018 and 2019 with the Fridays for Future school strike movement, and the voyage of Greta Thunberg across the Atlantic Ocean.

[Ninja Tiptup]

^^^^^^

The David Wise thing is something I have a real problem with too. Going back and rereading Mirage right now since I recently finished issue 100 of IDW and yeah, the turtle personalities are pretty well fleshed out by Eastman and Laird. The most Wise could take credit for is making Raphael funny and giving Mikey the surfer mentality. But the basic personalities to the toon turtles come out of Mirage.


I decided to re-read the early Mirage issues to see where the turtles personalities started being noticeable and it really does start all the way in the second book. So yeah, I also find it frustrating that David Wise gets credit for individualizing the turtles just because he amped up the personalities they already had. He adapted two or three of them decently well from the comics and changed up Raph considerably. If anything he should get credit for giving The Shredder a personality but much of that personality is also due to James Avery's marvelous performance. Likewise the vocal performances of the four turtles greatly shaped their animated personas. In that way it was more of a collaborative process. That said, it is safe to say that the TMNT cartoon could have been much different without Wise's influence. He was at least familiar with the comics when he got the gig. Who knows how far removed from the original personalities the turtles could have been in someone else's hands?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Leonardo leads is established in The Turtles' Origin is Told. Published May 1984

Donatello does machines is established in Kirby and the Warp Crystal. Published May 1986.

Raphael is cool but rude is established in Me, Myself and I. Published April 1985. (But David Wise may have changed from quick temper to sarcastic)

Michelangelo is the party dude is established in The Christmas Aliens. Published December 1985.

So, their personalities were already established when David Wise began working on Season 1 around April 1987.

[Leo656]

So yeah, I also find it frustrating that David Wise gets credit for individualizing the turtles just because he amped up the personalities they already had.

Eh. I think he only gets such credit from very ignorant people. Most people have never heard of David Wise, and the rest know better.

[neatoman]

Most people have never heard of David Wise, and the rest know better.

Good.

Not that it'll ever really be a problem though. Every single piece of TMNT media ever made has the words "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman" or "Based on characters created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman" attached to them somewhere. Even the Bebop and Rocksteady comics, the characters Wise tried to claim were his, credits Laird and Eastman as the creators.

All TMNT material that will ever credit him are the episodes he wrote, which is more or less as it should be. Unless someone out there decides to make a... Mister Ogg focused thing... There isn't much to unambigiously give him character creation credit for.

No joke, I'm looking through what episodes he wrote after season one and when they're not introducing characters who had toys or just needed to make the plot work, there's not a whole lot of new interesting characters. When it comes to characters that almost certainly has to be Wise's creations, this is it:

Mister Ogg
Z the computer
The Zipps
J. Gordon Hungerdunger
Cheeseburger Man
Buffy Shellhammer
The Ice Creature
Wally Airhead
Kerma
Herman the Horrible
Destructor X
Phantom of the Sewers
Speega
Cobrato
Quarx
Hamato Koji
Oroku Sancho
Dirk Savage
Krangazoids
Drakus
Megavolt
Titanus
Krakus
Medusa
Jet McCabe
Chronos
Landor
Merrik
Doomquest


Not exactly A-listers, are they?

[Andrew NDB]

Michelangelo is the party dude is established in The Christmas Aliens. Published December 1985.


He didn't do any partying in that. Absolutely nothing in Mirage would ever lead me to think Michelangelo is a "party dude." And if Wise wants credit for that, I would consider it more "blame" that he would get, not "credit."

[Leo656]

Good.

Not that it'll ever really be a problem though. Every single piece of TMNT media ever made has the words "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman" or "Based on characters created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman" attached to them somewhere. Even the Bebop and Rocksteady comics, the characters Wise tried to claim were his, credits Laird and Eastman as the creators.

All TMNT material that will ever credit him are the episodes he wrote, which is more or less as it should be. Unless someone out there decides to make a... Mister Ogg focused thing... There isn't much to unambigiously give him character creation credit for.

No joke, I'm looking through what episodes he wrote after season one and when they're not introducing characters who had toys or just needed to make the plot work, there's not a whole lot of new interesting characters. When it comes to characters that almost certainly has to be Wise's creations, this is it:

Mister Ogg
Z the computer
The Zipps
J. Gordon Hungerdunger
Cheeseburger Man
Buffy Shellhammer
The Ice Creature
Wally Airhead
Kerma
Herman the Horrible
Destructor X
Phantom of the Sewers
Speega
Cobrato
Quarx
Hamato Koji
Oroku Sancho
Dirk Savage
Krangazoids
Drakus
Megavolt
Titanus
Krakus
Medusa
Jet McCabe
Chronos
Landor
Merrik
Doomquest


Not exactly A-listers, are they?

No, those are much rather "Things That Should Be Forevermore Stricken From The Record" and then never spoken of again.

[PizzaPower1985]

Good.

Not that it'll ever really be a problem though. Every single piece of TMNT media ever made has the words "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman" or "Based on characters created by Peter Laird and Kevin Eastman" attached to them somewhere. Even the Bebop and Rocksteady comics, the characters Wise tried to claim were his, credits Laird and Eastman as the creators.

All TMNT material that will ever credit him are the episodes he wrote, which is more or less as it should be. Unless someone out there decides to make a... Mister Ogg focused thing... There isn't much to unambigiously give him character creation credit for.

No joke, I'm looking through what episodes he wrote after season one and when they're not introducing characters who had toys or just needed to make the plot work, there's not a whole lot of new interesting characters. When it comes to characters that almost certainly has to be Wise's creations, this is it:

Mister Ogg
Z the computer
The Zipps
J. Gordon Hungerdunger
Cheeseburger Man
Buffy Shellhammer
The Ice Creature
Wally Airhead
Kerma
Herman the Horrible
Destructor X
Phantom of the Sewers
Speega
Cobrato
Quarx
Hamato Koji
Oroku Sancho
Dirk Savage
Krangazoids
Drakus
Megavolt
Titanus
Krakus
Medusa
Jet McCabe
Chronos
Landor
Merrik
Doomquest


Not exactly A-listers, are they?

There's video footage, in the Turtle Power doc I believe, that shows Eastman and Laird drawing Bebop/Rocksteady... Even before they're named they are referred to as a "mutant rhino" and a "punk warthog".

They were created by E&L because they drew those characters.