Romance in Tmnt

[Torterra]

How do feel about the turtles being in relationships or the introduction of romance in the series in general?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I liked Raphael and Ninjara in the Archie Comics. The Donatello and Irma thing in the Fred Wolf cartoon was OK for a laugh.

[IndigoErth]

A little is okay, but don't go overboard and don't force it.

And either keep it canon or very similar to their past interests. Franchise as a whole, they all kind of seem to have a type(s) they go for and would be nice to see that maintained.
i.e.
Leo: human women, esp the butt kicking kind
Raph: canine mutants, plus one salamander
Donnie: human and esp human-like aliens/hybrid of both
Mikey: aliens and humans that are themselves a bit otherworldly

[neatoman]

It's... Always going to be an awkward subject for this series, isn't it? When it comes to the Turtles themselves, their options are pretty much going to be:

Someone that is not and looks nothing like a mutant turtle.
One of their brothers.

And before you spew fourth any objections to option 1 being awkward, imagine if your only option for a romantic partner was the talking gorilla from George of the Jungle...
8LwK8OzTZow
... Yeah, that's what I thought, and guess what? That gorilla is much more similar to human being than Alopex is to Raph, or really any of the potential love interests for any of the turtles that have been cooked up over the years (Venus excluded).

Edit: Oh and I should probably point out why it might come across as weirder in this series and maybe not in others that may feature humanoid animal characters.
In many stories that deal with animal people, they are the norm and regular human beings might not be found anywhere. The reason for this is typically not explained, the differences between the species are not pointed out and it's all just kind of like this. So in something like that, nobody blinks an eye at the dogman and the catwoman getting married because the characters are not aware of any distinction and there might not even be one.
In TMNT however, regular human beings are the norm and the humanoid animals are either mutants or aliens. Acknowledgement of the differences is baked into the very premise. The fact that Raph is literally a turtle and Alopex is literally fox makes this way more weirder than if the animal person thing was just an aestethic choice, not that either of them have better choices of course but it's still rather strange to think about.

[TigerClaw]

One thing to take into account. Is most of these mutants were once humans. And they were attracted to other humans. For a mutant to fall romantically in love with another mutant. They would know they two were once human as well. But they don't know what they looked like prior to the mutation.

a mutant to fall for another mutant. It would be a matter of looks and perhaps a preference. Like you could have feline mutants falling for other feline mutants because they see them as looking cute and adorable. Same for canine mutants

So what we have here are mutants who when they were humans was either a Cat or Dog lover. But they would feel awkward dating someone who looks like a certain animal they had as a pet. But they look pass that and just see them as looking rather cute. Perhaps its there personality that attracts then rather then the animal they appear to look like.

Its like a Mutant Dog dating a Mutant Cat. But they like each other because they share a common interest on things. So its not about what they look like on the outside. But what's on the inside. Because inside is a human soul inside a mutant animal body.

In the case for Raph and Alopex. They like each other because they both have something in common. And because of that they bonded and became more then just friends. I know Raph has mention about the fact she's a Fox. But he looked passed that and just loves her for who she is on the inside.

[Dejablue]

Leo is doomed to be forever alone. he's only attracted to women who want to kill him. Also to what Tiger Claw said...

I feel like animal first mutants wouldn't have much of an issue liking other types of mutants outside of their species. But human first mutants would most likely still only be into humans. Why? Tmnt takes place in a world more or less mirroring our own in terms of realism. Animals are beneath us and are not seen as equals intellectually by a sane majority. This is the situation Jennika finds herself in. Still likes a human guy, has shown no interest in mutants. Though this may change if she fell for a mutant who was also a human at one point, and if there is 0 chance of her being human again then...I mean she's gotta keep living.

So I see it perfectly reasonable that the tmnt could fall in love with human women. But it would be harder the other way around. Even though mutants have humanity, the stigma of still being half animal would be pretty strong. But given time some of these barriers would surely break down for some people.

[TigerClaw]

Leo is doomed to be forever alone. he's only attracted to women who want to kill him.
So he's into the bad girl types.

[IndigoErth]

"A cat or dog lover" takes on a whole different meaning in this topic. :tlol: :teek:

At least former-human mutants could probably share pictures of what they used to look like. And probably for the best if they had the option to de-mutate so both partners are knowing what to expect in a human-again partner. lol

As for Raph, I figure he just gets cold at night and likes fluffy women who can keep him warm. lol Although that whole kissing someone with a canine muzzle still sounds awkward. The IDW panel at least doesn't quite look like she's eating his face...

[Dejablue]

Romance as a thing in TMNT has never bothered me. But I hear the creators don't like it. Or at least didn't like it in the past, I don't know about now. The turtles sure do get a lot of off the record hoes if that's the case. 8)

I love romance but a few things I just don't like or cringe at.

1. The Misunderstanding Break up: Hate it, especially over stupid things that basic communication could fix. Unless the lovers are fighting over something plot related, a good reason, and something that can't be resolved with talking, then it is a waste of time.

2. Over drawn out will they/won't they shenanigans: Inuyasha is the only time I tolerated it. I don't want to see it again. If you like each other and nothing is holding you back, then just become an item for fuks sake.

3. No more love triangles please. I beg you. I'll even take will they/won't they over this.

[Leo656]

I personally feel like anything is fine if done well, so I'm fine with it in theory but I understand why a lot of people don't like it. It's not what most people are interested in seeing from the franchise, especially those too young to care about such things - it always has been a franchise aimed predominantly at pre-adolescent boys, after all - so I can see why to some people even a little bit isn't okay.

But I mean, attraction is a huge part of life, so to not include it at all feels disingenuous. But too much and to be poorly-written is not good. I mean the Don/April stuff in the Nick cartoon... blech. That whole thing did very little except to reinforce to some people the idea that such things have no place in the franchise.

So yeah, I'm open to it as a concept but I haven't seen it done especially well in any "official" works as of yet. I did really like Raph and Ninjara's whole deal, but I wasn't a huge fan of how that ended, it didn't feel organic. I'unno.

[triplexxx]

Considering they're very much human, it's very understandable in most cases, granted with their lifestyles it could never go anywhere in any case.

[newfan]

Well, I had a ship.. but generally speaking it depends on the extent and how it's done. I wouldn't want to feel like there was a genre shift to romance when watching a version. Keep the focus.

[Dejablue]

I've read some fics ... If you think about the relationship between a human and a mutant in the long term it is destined to fail unless they can achieve an at least stable life together. But too many of these stories go "And then Mary Jane lived in the sewers forever with her lover. The End".

Yeesh.

Heh, I guess she didn't realize the the sewers were where she always belonged. Fanfiction tends to avoid the idea that external circumstances can doom a relationship as much as internal ones.

[Andrew NDB]

No human-TMNT relationships. None. My preference is no relationships at all (keeping with the isolationist vibe), but I'm OK with things like Mikey with Horridus or the Regenta.

[Leo656]

I'unno man. I wouldn't trust anyone who wouldn't wanna bury a bone in FW April, be they Human Male, Human Female (All Chicks Are Swishy :trazz:), Mutant Turtle or Other. :lol:

"I'unno. I don't think FW April is f*ckable."
"Uh-huh....." ((Cuts head off with an ax)) "I KNEW IT! A Cylon! The last thing you said gave it away! NOT TODAY, SATAN!"

:lol::lol::lol:

[Dejablue]

They certainly aren't isolationist by choice. And no matter what they are teenage boys. Good thing aliens and other mutants exist as options if you really want to bar them from humans. But in the end anything is better than T-cest.

[Leo656]

Plus, are looks really all that matters? Many people claim they're attracted and aroused by "personalities" more than "people". If the Turtles were ever gonna fall for anyone at all, that would be a factor. There'd be crossing of "species lines" no matter what; it seems silly to say "No Humans" when that's really just One More Species the TMNT don't belong to. If Raphael can be attracted to anthro foxes or whatever then Leo can crush on Karai or Donnie can crush on April. In theory, anyway.

I can definitely see a mutual attraction developing between April and one or other of the Turtles over time, just because they spend a ton of time together and she was the first person to ever be nice to them, and Those Things Happen All The Time. Like two co-workers who maybe never had an implicit attraction before but have always been friendly, and then they're forced to work late or go on a business trip together, just the two of them, they find out how much they have in common, it starts getting late, and then BAM.

So I mean I CAN see it being on the table but I don't think it's ever been handled well, and I don't think it's very likey at all to be written in a way that could come off well. Not in an "official" piece of work, anyway. There might be some ficcers who handled it delicately. I'm well aware of why you "can't" go there for any number of reasons, but to say it's completely a verboten idea just seems kind of silly. Raph banging a fox-woman is just as "weird" or "nonsensical" or anything else as one of them being attracted to a human being would be.

Either It's All Okay or It's All Bad. Me? I say it's silly to pretend they'd never get awkward boners just because they're mutant turtles and there's no other mutant turtles around to ogle.

Although they probably watch Discovery Channel a lot differently than you or I do. :lol:

------------

I think the real "problem" with introducing romantic elements or characters into the series is the risk of those elements overshadowing everything else. I don't know too many people who flat-out HATE the idea of one or some of the Turtles falling for someone, BUT I don't think anyone wants a TMNT project to become "Archie Loves Veronica", either. Very little TMNT fiction in comics, movies, or TV gives me much hope that such topics would ever be handled properly or in an even-handed way, with Ninjara's inclusion in TMNTA being a notable exception which still wasn't perfect. But it does give hope that someone might crack it if they were really interested in doing it well.

[Wesley]

I?m not a big romance fan, but I?m ok with it as long as the franchise doesn?t focus too much on it. I liked April and Casey in the 1990 movie and 2003 tv series. I also thought Raph and Mona Lisa worked well together in the 1987 series.

[Andrew NDB]

They certainly aren't isolationist by choice.

That's not the point. The isolationist angle is what makes them unique... and somewhat sad/tragic. Which is part of their allure.

And no matter what they are teenage boys.

No, not teenage boys as we know them as humans. Unless you can draw up examples of 4 human boys raised in a sewer for 15 years with the exclusive goal of training to one day kill a man.

[Torterra]

I'm okay with the romance but as long as it's not the main focus of the series. That was the one thing didn't like about the 2012 series where Donatello's main character trait was I have a crush on April. But how do you guys feel towards Donatello hooking up with Mona Lisa in the IDW comics especially since Mona Lisa is usually titled in the TMNT community as Raph's girl?

[Dejablue]

That's not the point. The isolationist angle is what makes them unique... and somewhat sad/tragic. Which is part of their allure.

Well I have to agree a part of who they are is tragic. That doesn't change the in universe reality that the turtles would change that if they could. If a new show came out and at the very end they were accepted by the society they lived in because they saved it so many times, and it took 30 years for them to get there would you really be upset about that? The turtles have allies and can go into space and mingle with aliens who don't even bat an eye at their appearance. I'm just saying they already have options but outerspace/other planets or dimensions isn't where they want to live. The only group they can't mingle with are humans, which seems to be the group they care about the most if they care about any "group".



No, not teenage boys as we know them as humans. Unless you can draw up examples of 4 human boys raised in a sewer for 15 years with the exclusive goal of training to one day kill a man.

They are different in some ways and similar in others which is why the franchise is so popular. If them being teens didn't matter then it would be called Mutant Ninja Turtles. Not only that they are half human half turtles. Humans like to ****, turtles have distinct breeding seasons. There is a good chance that if it has a vertebrae, it wants to have sex and nothing about how it is raised will change that short of anti-sex therapy like what Meryl Silverburgh went through.

So tl;dr nobody is born celibate that is ridiculous.

[Torterra]

I'm okay with the romance but as long as it's not the main focus of the series. That was the one thing didn't like about the 2012 series where Donatello's main character trait was I have a crush on April. But how do you guys feel towards Donatello hooking up with Mona Lisa in the IDW comics especially since Mona is usually seen as Raph's girl in the community?

[Leo656]

I'unno, wasn't Mona Lisa only in one episode of the cartoon? Sure, she seemed to crush on Raph but I'unno if that's substantial enough to be "Hard Canon". Sure, let her go with someone else. Raph's a furry; THAT'S "hard canon". :trazz: Or at least "well-established in multiple TMNT universes" if nothing else.

It wouldn't be like with Thundercats 2011, where they had Cheetara crushing on Tygra when she's CLEARLY supposed to be with Lion-O and always was, doggone razza-frazzin'.... :tgrumble:

[Dejablue]

Ew wasn't Lion-O a kid in a man's body in the original. Cheetara was basically his mom.

[PApagreg]

Ew wasn't Lion-O a kid in a man's body in the original. Cheetara was basically his mom.

If you think that's bad Willykit and Liono was going to be a thing in the 2011 version

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/WhatCouldHaveBeen/ThunderCats2011

[Leo656]

I'm only speaking of original series (and comics based on it) here:

She was definitely older than him but several years passed while they were traveling from Thundera to Third Earth; he was a kid when they started the journey, but his cryo-chamber was busted or whatever, and so he aged several years during the trip while the others did not.

So they were all adults in their early-mid 20s by the time they got to Third Earth, at least physically. The thing was he never developed mentally or emotionally during the trip so he was still a bit juvenile in his mindset and attitude; that was part of the plot, he was supposedly "growing up" on the job and having to be this Great Leader for the others pretty much by it being preordained, even though he still wasn't quite ready yet. It wasn't always handled very well, and he still came off as rather a puss most of the time. The comics portrayed him much better.

If anything, since he aged and they didn't, he might have technically been "older" than her by the end for all I know. I don't know how old any of them were when they set out, I think he was like 10-12 or something.

But yeah, nah, he was kind of an idiot but otherwise there was nothing really unseemly about it. The later comics specifically indicated that once he fully became King that she was gonna be his Queen. It's generally accepted by most fans that that's how things were always gonna go.

What else was he gonna do, anyway? Wait around for Wily-Kit to grow up? Pumyra's a f*cking headcase. Options are limited, and Cheetara openly crushes on him in a few episodes. Sh*t's gonna go down, that's just the way it is.

Plus, she's really hot, that kinda supersedes anything else.

[Dejablue]

I'm okay with the romance but as long as it's not the main focus of the series. That was the one thing didn't like about the 2012 series where Donatello's main character trait was I have a crush on April. But how do you guys feel towards Donatello hooking up with Mona Lisa in the IDW comics especially since Mona is usually seen as Raph's girl in the community?

I'd argue that Donatello in 2012 had more going on than just his crush on April. I liked his character a lot and it wasn't because of that.

I've always felt weird about romance in IDW. I have to admit for the most part I'm either indifferent towards it or I don't like it because the writing in IDW does not allow for down time or moments of introspection. So when characters hook up I feel like its too rushed. This current arc is like the first time in IDW the turtles AREN'T gunning it to save someone or stop some evil. So for Donatello to just start macking with Mona feels like someone hit the fast forward button on romance.

Who knows maybe it'll just be a fling or they'll do it properly and let it simmer. But on screen development is key, something IDW probably won't give up a lot of page space for.

[Coola Yagami]

Leo is doomed to be forever alone. he's only attracted to women who want to kill him. Also to what Tiger Claw said...

I feel like animal first mutants wouldn't have much of an issue liking other types of mutants outside of their species. But human first mutants would most likely still only be into humans. Why? Tmnt takes place in a world more or less mirroring our own in terms of realism. Animals are beneath us and are not seen as equals intellectually by a sane majority. This is the situation Jennika finds herself in. Still likes a human guy, has shown no interest in mutants. Though this may change if she fell for a mutant who was also a human at one point, and if there is 0 chance of her being human again then...I mean she's gotta keep living.



OR she could just stay single for life. Not everyone needs someone or needs love. Something like that could change Jennika into focusing more on perfecting her ninja skills until she's Shredder level, than looking for love.

[Dejablue]

Thats a valid possibility. But you act like you can only reach Shredder's level without love. I disagree. Splinter had love and beat Shredder. Nobody in action adventure is ever "looking" for love. They just happen to meet someone on their journey that they may fall in love with.

[Leo656]

I'unno, man. The Blues Brothers famously sang, "Ever-y-body neeeeds some-bod-y to love," and I generally listen to Jake and Elwood.

I mean, they wear such skinny ties and the one guy swings a chain when he walks, so you know they've got a lot on the ball. Guys who wear sunglasses indoors all the time are definitely experts on just about everything, after all. I think they make a lot of sense!

[PApagreg]

Just don't follow 12's example(except for Raph and Mona) and I'll be good.

[IndigoErth]

Though Casey may not be able to look past Jennika's mutation, provided and assuming present events are resolved in short order... I have a feeling she may end up discovering maternal love instead, taking little Lita under are wing, along with some adopted uncles.

IDW Mona and Donnie... Don't mind if it happens. Kind of funny that she clearly wants to put the moves on him and Donnie looks kind of uncertain about this. lol Though Mona is certainly a case for an open minded girl who has embraced this mutant thing pretty well and looking to chase Turtle boy over there.

[PizzaPower1985]

I'll echo what others have said here, a little bit is okay. Allie and Raph is sweet! But as a general rule, these kind of entanglements IS NOT a good idea for all of them. With Raph it works to mellow that guy out.

Remember TMNT. They are ninjas. Romance will get in the way of their purpose IF not handled well.

Allie is an amazing character AND if she was human (and I was single), I'd be tempted to maybe ask her if she likes coffee or something.

But really, I think romance kinda gets in the way of KICK-BUTT-NINJA-ACTION!

Let's remember too that too many characters make the TMNT suffer (are you reading this IDW?)

[TigerClaw]

Im not a fan of the whole isolationist thing. Having grown up with the TMNT. I love seeing these characters grow and get out of the sewers. I love what IDW is doing by allowing the Turtles to be out in the open and out there protecting and helping the community in Mutant Time. They can finally be out there among other Mutants.

Times are changing and I think its time we let go about the whole Sewer thing and move on with the next stages of there lives.

As for the romances. I am fine with it because they are among other mutants.

We could have Mutants having relationship with others in some ways. I could see a mutant falling for another just because he or she loves Cats or Dogs. I could see someone commenting on something like. "You know. Your pretty cute for a Cat. The other person says. Thanks. Though I'm normally a dog person but I'm getting used to it."

[PizzaPower1985]

^^^^ Correct me if I'm wrong here, it's been a while since I read it, but the TMNT only were able to walk around without worry in later Mirage volumes because time had passed and TMNT were no longer the only mutants... it wasn't a very good notion then and what IDW is doing doesn't make it any better, especially with a million characters.

You don't need to justify the millions of mutants/side characters to argue that romance is a good idea. Neither of these things is good for TMNT in the long term.

[ZariusTwo]

I used to be against Turtles in relationship, then I actually started writing a few of them in one and enjoyed it very much, I relied on the characters histories and fleshed it out considerably, and one of my best friends/former crushes is a massive pregno-phobe so consulting her with how she handles her boyfriends was a major help. I's entirely possible to tell stories where you can live happily ever after and not really have any intention of doing the business or starting a family.

Life finds a way.

[Leo656]

I used to be against Turtles in relationship, then I actually started writing a few of them in one and enjoyed it very much, I relied on the characters histories and fleshed it out considerably, and one of my best friends/former crushes is a massive pregno-phobe so consulting her with how she handles her boyfriends was a major help. I's entirely possible to tell stories where you can live happily ever after and not really have any intention of doing the business or starting a family.

Life finds a way.

You more than anyone probably knows exactly how I feel about the subject as a whole, brutha. :lol: ;) And why I feel like handing such topics is "all in the wrist" with nothing being off-limits by default. :)

But yeah we generally think alike sometimes.

[PizzaPower1985]

I'm not anti-romance but we do have to get back to core characters and stop with all of these additional supporting characters. Again, Allie works best for Raph, but I can't see any other turtle falling in love. Mikey seems like he could but the character and opportunity would have to be right.

And just to piss off all of these fans who think TMNT is for children we need Casey Jones and April in a full page spread DOING IT... HARDCORE! How's that for romance? We have got to get TMNT into R-rated territory as fast as possible. They can do it for Spawn on HBO. They can do it for Wolverine (a sh*tty movie) in film. TMNT need to have that treatment.

April and Casey need SEX! And Leonardo's blades need BLOOD! I wanna see Raph straight up murder again. I am so tired of goddamned Nickelodeon treating our boys with kid gloves.

[Hamato Yoshi]

"Guys who wear sunglasses indoors"

Jack Nicholson : Aint that the truth buddy

[IndigoErth]

Agree it definitely needs something to put it into a higher rating, at least now and then for goodness sakes. Is a love scene the way... eh I dunno, I mean April and Casey could jump back into the territory of not focusing on the Turtles enough by needing to focus enough on them to make seeing that even matter.

I mean, you could do the realistic CGI Raph/Allopex sex scene and it will be immediately not for kids AND the world can be horrified that a movie went there. :tlol: (I don't recommend going the Shape of Water level of going there quite yet. lol)

On second thought however, it's my mom who goes sees these with me, I'd rather avoid that awkwardness. LOL

but I can't see any other turtle falling in love. Mikey seems like he could but the character and opportunity would have to be right.
No Leo? Not Mr. Swooning over Lotus, was pretended by the audience to have a thing for Karai but then Nick made it true, got with that super powered Native lady (whose name escapes me at the moment -- edit: Radical?)... :trazz: I mean, I dunno, butt kicking traits aside, he's the one guy among them who is surrounded by the type he historically tends to go for since they're all human.

Now, do I want to see it happen? Not really. But some woman turning his head is fine, and knowing my fave thinks us human women aren't gross is also totally fine. lol :D

[PizzaPower1985]

Agree it definitely needs something to put it into a higher rating, at least now and then for goodness sakes. Is a love scene the way... eh I dunno, I mean April and Casey could jump back into the territory of not focusing on the Turtles enough by needing to focus enough on them to make seeing that even matter.

I mean, you could do the realistic CGI Raph/Allopex sex scene and it will be immediately not for kids AND the world can be horrified that a movie went there. :tlol: (I don't recommend going the Shape of Water level of going there quite yet. lol)

On second thought however, it's my mom who goes sees these with me, I'd rather avoid that awkwardness. LOL


No Leo? Not Mr. Swooning over Lotus, was pretended by the audience to have a thing for Karai but then Nick made it true, got with that super powered Native lady (whose name escapes me at the moment -- edit: Radical?)... :trazz: I mean, I dunno, butt kicking traits aside, he's the one guy among them who is surrounded by the type he historically tends to go for since they're all human.

Now, do I want to see it happen? Not really. But some woman turning his head is fine, and knowing my fave thinks us human women aren't gross is also totally fine. lol :D

^^^ The Leo/Karai thing always bugged me. It's nothing more than a way to relate the 2 to each other. 2 ninja, highly trained and each very disciplined. Let's create an implied/possible flirtation?

Nope. It's just lazy to write them that way, especially in the more mature/serious TMNT stuff. I think Leo is, or at least should be, too disciplined for love/romance.

What really cheeses me off is the fact of the whole Donnie/April thing in 2012. Ugh!

Now, Mikey. He's the 1 turtle throughout TMNT history that is seen as fawning over ladies but rarely got a love life. I dunno, because he's fun-loving and caring, love/romance could/should work for him.

At the end of the day, Raph needs a lady to calm his ass down. The rest, meh. I dunno!

[Leo656]

I think Leo would definitely have romantic urges, it just seems that he's mostly attracted to problem cases. Which would make "settling down" with anyone difficult.

It's odd that the Nick cartoon made Donnie's crush on April so prevalent, because he's the one I can't see having much interest or attraction just in general. Like, I'm not convinced "asexual" is a real thing (genuinely feels more like a buzzword created by people who can't get laid, not gonna lie), but Donnie's definitely the one closest to it.

The others, though? I can see them as being resigned to the fact that most females wouldn't want them BUT perfectly capable of attraction and willing to Go There with the right "person" if it ever came up.

They're the very definition of "incels"; it's not that they wouldn't WANNA do it, they just figure nobody'd want 'em. BUT, that doesn't mean that one day they couldn't be pleasantly surprised by someone, either.

[Leo656]

Nope. It's just lazy to write them that way, especially in the more mature/serious TMNT stuff. I think Leo is, or at least should be, too disciplined for love/romance.


Ahhhhhhh, that's a crock'a sh*t. :lol: The "too disciplined for romance" thing is, again, something people who can't get laid espouse. "I don't think about sex, I'm too busy working out." I known guys like that. Never lasts. When they can finally get some, that "discipline" of theirs falls by the wayside. Seen it a million times. P*ssy Trumps Everything Else, mang. :trazz:

Especially if it's later on in the story, after Shredder's done away with and things have "calmed down" in their lives. The guy's just gonna live in the gym doing push-ups and polishing his swords forever until the day he dies? Naaaaaaaaaaaah, no way, man. Nobody acts like that on purpose. Everyone yearns for connection, and Hormones aren't something you just turn off.

Leo might be a Supreme Warrior Badass, but he'd definitely want some P. He just don't think he's gonna get any so he doesn't make it a priority, that's all. If it came up? Game On. Dude ain't a robot.

[PizzaPower1985]

Ahhhhhhh, that's a crock'a sh*t. :lol: The "too disciplined for romance" thing is, again, something people who can't get laid espouse. "I don't think about sex, I'm too busy working out." I known guys like that. Never lasts. When they can finally get some, that "discipline" of theirs falls by the wayside. Seen it a million times. P*ssy Trumps Everything Else, mang. :trazz:

Especially if it's later on in the story, after Shredder's done away with and things have "calmed down" in their lives. The guy's just gonna live in the gym doing push-ups and polishing his swords forever until the day he dies? Naaaaaaaaaaaah, no way, man. Nobody acts like that on purpose. Everyone yearns for connection, and Hormones aren't something you just turn off.

Leo might be a Supreme Warrior Badass, but he'd definitely want some P. He just don't think he's gonna get any so he doesn't make it a priority, that's all. If it came up? Game On. Dude ain't a robot.

^^^^ That sounded different in my head than what I actually typed. I dont mean Leo should be celibate, hell look at Bruce... how many women has he had? I just meant I think he'd be the least likely to find or have romance because of his focus.

There could be an iteration where he's so obsessively Bushido and monk-like that he forgoes his animalistic needs but I dunno. Maybe if he's the Last Ronin.

You think Bruce in DKR is concerned with sex? Not one bit... that old man's got a war to fight.

[Leo656]

Yeah but Bruce Wayne is a f*cking emo little punk. :lol: He also isn't real, but if he were, he'd be a horrible example to use for... well, just about anything, really. :trazz:

I look at it like this: Bruce Lee was a Supreme Warrior Badass. He also pulled down more trim than George Clooney. Just because you spend 23 hours a day practicing your split kick doesn't mean you can't devote that other hour a day to some "Bow-chicka-bow-wooooooooowwwwwwww", nah'mean?

I'd say the closest thing we could compare the TMNT to, really, would be Olympic athletes. They're almost certainly Olympic-level in their skills and level of training. So one would figure that the amount of devotion to training and "focus" would be similar. At every Olympics, the Olympic Village is a full-blown Bacchanal full of alcohol, cocaine, and lots and lots and lots and lots and LOTS of sex. So again, just because these people are "supremely focused and disciplined" doesn't mean they also won't jump in bed with anything that moves when the opportunity presents itself.

I can't see the Turtles being any different. They're only celibate because an opportunity hasn't presented itself. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :trazz:

Except Raph when he was with Ninjara. A girl with jugs like that, I doubt they spent all their time sitting around playing Scrabble every night. :trazz: So we know that at least in one canon, at least ONE of them's gotten laid. Although I think it was hinted at with Mikey in both Image and Mirage as well, but I'm fuzzy on that.

EDIT: Wait, yeah, Mikey definitely nailed the chick in Vol. 4, didn't he?

[IndigoErth]

Mikey and the alien dino princess. (I'm sure Kala also would have gone for it given a chance. lol) I think it was rather implied about Leo and Radical? Too bad Jhanna was so short lived and she and Donnie didn't actually get to have a thing.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Yeah but Bruce Wayne is a f*cking emo little punk. :lol: He also isn't real, but if he were, he'd be a horrible example to use for... well, just about anything, really. :trazz:

I look at it like this: Bruce Lee was a Supreme Warrior Badass. He also pulled down more trim than George Clooney. Just because you spend 23 hours a day practicing your split kick doesn't mean you can't devote that other hour a day to some "Bow-chicka-bow-wooooooooowwwwwwww", nah'mean?

I'd say the closest thing we could compare the TMNT to, really, would be Olympic athletes. They're almost certainly Olympic-level in their skills and level of training. So one would figure that the amount of devotion to training and "focus" would be similar. At every Olympics, the Olympic Village is a full-blown Bacchanal full of alcohol, cocaine, and lots and lots and lots and lots and LOTS of sex. So again, just because these people are "supremely focused and disciplined" doesn't mean they also won't jump in bed with anything that moves when the opportunity presents itself.

I can't see the Turtles being any different. They're only celibate because an opportunity hasn't presented itself. That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! :trazz:

Except Raph when he was with Ninjara. A girl with jugs like that, I doubt they spent all their time sitting around playing Scrabble every night. :trazz: So we know that at least in one canon, at least ONE of them's gotten laid. Although I think it was hinted at with Mikey in both Image and Mirage as well, but I'm fuzzy on that.

EDIT: Wait, yeah, Mikey definitely nailed the chick in Vol. 4, didn't he?

Mike has gotten lucky with Horridus in Volume 3, and the Regenta Seri in Volume 4. Possibly even fathered kids in Volume 4... there was discussion that the eggs weren't actually his.

Those are the only instances I've ever seen romance done well in TMNT, of ANY iteration. Along with Raph and Ninjara in Archie, I guess. I've never read it all, but I take the word of you guys who vouch for it.

Although I suppose you could count Raph's tension with Pimiko in Volume 3 as hinting at something more, I dunno.

[PizzaPower1985]

Mike has gotten lucky with Horridus in Volume 3, and the Regenta Seri in Volume 4. Possibly even fathered kids in Volume 4... there was discussion that the eggs weren't actually his.

Those are the only instances I've ever seen romance done well in TMNT, of ANY iteration. Along with Raph and Ninjara in Archie, I guess. I've never read it all, but I take the word of you guys who vouch for it.

Although I suppose you could count Raph's tension with Pimiko in Volume 3 as hinting at something more, I dunno.

Wait! Didn't Mikey end up adopting Shadow at one point too? A little fuzzy on that as the later volumes dont stick with me like Vol. 1 does.

[Leo656]

Mike has gotten lucky with Horridus in Volume 3, and the Regenta Seri in Volume 4. Possibly even fathered kids in Volume 4... there was discussion that the eggs weren't actually his.

Those are the only instances I've ever seen romance done well in TMNT, of ANY iteration. Along with Raph and Ninjara in Archie, I guess. I've never read it all, but I take the word of you guys who vouch for it.

Although I suppose you could count Raph's tension with Pimiko in Volume 3 as hinting at something more, I dunno.

Ohhhhhhh right, right. Didn't Regenta try and baby-trap him, or something?

I'm always a bit fuzzy on the stuff in Vol. 4. I don't take narcotic drugs, so when I have trouble falling asleep, I just grab an issue of Vol. 4 whereas most people would take an Ambien. Works like a charm! :tgrin:

Conversely, when I feel like going all Patrick Bateman on people, I re-read April's "Secret Origin" issue and walk the streets at night pretending everyone I see is Peter Laird.

.....Jesus, what the f*ck is with we Irish and dark humor? :lol: :teek:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Ohhhhhhh right, right. Didn't Regenta try and baby-trap him, or something?

I'm always a bit fuzzy on the stuff in Vol. 4. I don't take narcotic drugs, so when I have trouble falling asleep, I just grab an issue of Vol. 4 whereas most people would take an Ambien. Works like a charm! :tgrin:

He ended up thrown in prison and rescued by Triceratons. Last we saw, he's pretty pissed at the Regenta and her people; he's even ready to go full Raphael on them. :tlol:

Wait! Didn't Mikey end up adopting Shadow at one point too? A little fuzzy on that as the later volumes dont stick with me like Vol. 1 does.

Not adopting. He just bonds the most with Shadow, out of the four Turtles. Although some of the Tales in Volume 2 tried to pair Shadow more often with her Uncle Raph... but those stories usually sucked (IMO).

[Leo656]

Ah, yeah, I remember some of that, but like I said, it's all a blur.

Too many divergent plots in that book (Vol. 4). I know it was "the story Laird wanted to tell" but splitting the guys up and subsequently having five or six parallel subplots in one ongoing book was terrible. Obviously they couldn't do four concurrent solo series for each Turtle, but that's the only way that those stories could ever have been told properly within a comic book format. But that was just a terrible book as far as pacing, format, etc. Especially since sometimes issues would come out months apart; by the time you get the new one, you can't even remember what happened last time. Nothing about that book worked at all. Even if you like the stories within, the execution was terrible by default.

You know what I would've done with that exact same story (or stories)? A novel, alternating chapters between each Turtle's subplot, like how Stephen King did "The Stand". THAT could have worked pretty well. Maybe it would've been "Dry" and "Too highbrow" of a concept to do a giant, 1000-page TMNT novel, but again, as far as being a story presented within a comic book, utilizing that medium's format and storytelling style, Vol. 4 is AWFUL.

Maybe not "awful" as a story itself, but definitely "awful" as a comic book.

Like, it's obvious that Laird isn't good at writing comics. Which is NOT to call him a "bad writer". He's not a bad storyteller, but it's obvious that Kevin was "the comic book guy", while I do believe I heard that Laird always had aspirations to be a novelist. It shows! He has interesting ideas but just being a "good writer" doesn't mean you know how to apply your stories to a serialized comic book format. It's not like any other kind of writing.

Point of fact, Mario Puzo - the Godfather guy - loved comic books, and after he got famous he used his "pull" to try and get a gig writing one. He gave up. Said it was "far too difficult", the hardest writing job he ever attempted. Said flat-out that nothing he knew from "regular" writing applied and that he'd rather just not force something that wasn't gonna work.

Knowing that, it makes sense why Laird can be a decent writer but bad at writing comic books. His ideas are perhaps a little "too big", or at least he doesn't know how to balance things properly. "I wanna split the guys up and follow each of them on their own journey, plus April, Casey, etc." Wow, how many pages you think you got per issue, there, Chief? Stuff like that never, ever works. And even when each Turtle got their own mini-series to try and speed things up a little, it really didn't resolve anything significantly.

I also heard he was booking some of it on the fly and never really fleshed out any kind of ending, which is... Siiiiiiigh. I don't know. Again, that's the opposite of how you're supposed to do these things.

I respect his ambition and commitment to doing His Story, but it's a commercial medium. Tales Vol. 2 had some duds but as a comic book? Oooof. 100x better and more of what a TMNT comic "should be", compared to Vol. 4. You can just tell that those other guys understand how to write for comics, is all.

I'm not trying to be overly harsh, just explaining. You can say, "I liked Vol. 4" and I can't argue that even though I did not like it. If you enjoyed it, then you enjoyed it. But strictly as "a comic book", you can't say it's "good" because it really is not, technically. The story presented within was not adequate for the limitations of an ongoing comic book. Forget the art, forget whatever, just... FIVE OR SIX concurrent subplots. In one book. A book that only came out sometimes once every three or four months. Which cost twice as much as every other book that came out during that time period.

That's bad. That is objectively a very poor use of resources, even if you like the story.

To be clear, I've read WAY worse comic books, as in worse writing, worse ideas, etc. (Although that sh*t with April is pretty goddamn indefensible no matter what drugs you're on). But Vol. 4 disappointed because it simply wasn't right for the format. That's all I'm saying.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

You know what I would've done with that exact same story (or stories)? A novel, alternating chapters between each Turtle's subplot, like how Stephen King did "The Stand". THAT could have worked pretty well. Maybe it would've been "Dry" and "Too highbrow" of a concept to do a giant, 1000-page TMNT novel, but again, as far as being a story presented within a comic book, utilizing that medium's format and storytelling style, Vol. 4 is AWFUL.

Knowing that, it makes sense why Laird can be a decent writer but bad at writing comic books. His ideas are perhaps a little "too big", or at least he doesn't know how to balance things properly. "I wanna split the guys up and follow each of them on their own journey, plus April, Casey, etc." Wow, how many pages you think you got per issue, there, Chief? Stuff like that never, ever works. And even when each Turtle got their own mini-series to try and speed things up a little, it really didn't resolve anything significantly.

It worked in City at War! Except it was the Turtles, Splinter, Casey, and April, and the Turtles were together.

And nobody really cared about April's storyline. :tlol:

I love the idea of a TMNT book tracking four different storylines for a year or more on end, and eventually pulling the four brothers back into a big plot development or "event" at the end of it; and then seeing them go their separate ways again.

But that's NOT what Volume 4 was. :tconfuse:

[Leo656]

I mean, "decompressed storytelling" is perfectly within "the rules", it's just that you have to present a story that fits within the framework you're utilizing. Comics aren't necessarily the place for it. Things have to happen, eventually.

If you went to a "real" comic book publisher and said, "I wanna do a book with 5 or 6 main characters, they don't interact much and all their plots run parallel but don't intersect," you're out the door. You can't DO things like that.

[Torterra]

Wait! Didn't Mikey end up adopting Shadow at one point too? A little fuzzy on that as the later volumes dont stick with me like Vol. 1 does.

If I remember right I think Mikey just babysitting her and Casey was the one who adopted Shadow and he was raising her with April.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I mean, "decompressed storytelling" is perfectly within "the rules", it's just that you have to present a story that fits within the framework you're utilizing. Comics aren't necessarily the place for it. Things have to happen, eventually.

If you went to a "real" comic book publisher and said, "I wanna do a book with 5 or 6 main characters, they don't interact much and all their plots run parallel but don't intersect," you're out the door. You can't DO things like that.

If more things had HAPPENED, and the things that did happen didn't happen (cockroaches. never forget, never forgive), the parallel storylines with occasional intersections wouldn't have been a problem.

[Leo656]

"Occasional intersections" is being extremely generous, don't you think?

Tales Vol. 2 should have been Mirage Vol. 4. That's It, That's All.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

"Occasional intersections" is being extremely generous, don't you think?

Tales Vol. 2 should have been Mirage Vol. 4. That's It, That's All.

Not even Tales Volume 2 was very good. :tlol: Not as an overall series, at least.

[Leo656]

It was disjointed, sure, and not every story was a Home Run, but it felt WAY more like what a person reading a TMNT comic should expect to see when they pick it up. "Turtles get together and fight bad guys. You get some stuff that fills in the blanks between older stories." That's all you needed. Vol. 4 was overdone and pretentious, as the main title, not to mention meandering. At least in Tales Vol. 2, Stuff Happened, and not only occasionally. Tales engaged the reader; Vol. 4 asked the reader to go on a journey that had no destination and didn't actually go anywhere. There was no active engagement at all. Splinter died, and it was "So what?" That's terrible, man.

You're just pissy because Tales made Cudley "Hard Canon", because you can't accept the fact that everybody loves Cudley except you, you goddamn philistine. :trazz: Get Over It!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

It was disjointed, sure, and not every story was a Home Run, but it felt WAY more like what a person reading a TMNT comic should expect to see when they pick it up. "Turtles get together and fight bad guys. You get some stuff that fills in the blanks between older stories." That's all you needed. Vol. 4 was overdone and pretentious, as the main title, not to mention meandering. At least in Tales Vol. 2, Stuff Happened, and not only occasionally. Tales engaged the reader; Vol. 4 asked the reader to go on a journey that had no destination and didn't actually go anywhere. There was no active engagement at all. Splinter died, and it was "So what?" That's terrible, man.

You're just pissy because Tales made Cudley "Hard Canon", because you can't accept the fact that everybody loves Cudley except you, you goddamn philistine. :trazz: Get Over It!

Fvck Cudley. :tlol:

Hey, Splinter dying was great. That was the highlight of Volume 4, very well done...

[Leo656]

"Hmm, think I'll get me a drink and aaahhhhhhhhh F*CK, I'm dead."

Pppppppbbbbbbbbbbbth. Such a noble and fitting end to an iconic and beloved character. :roll: "Awwwww, but it's so humble! So poignant! So 'slice of life'! People die unceremoniously with no fanfare all the time!"

Not when you're asking people to pay $4 for the "privilege" of watching it, they don't. Wet fart. Again, I get "slice of life", I get that the entire point of the book was to "subvert expectations" and be extremely understated. But that is NOT how you "comic book".

I'm not saying you have to go full-blown "Pa Kent got killed by Brainiac", that was awful, too, from the opposite direction. I'm just saying, in a commercial medium where the entire point is not ONLY to tell stories, but to entertain people, that was maybe not the worst possible choice in how to kill of Splinter... but it WAS a very bad way to do it.

I mean, have you ever tried explaining his death to someone who has no idea about it? I have. It never plays well.

"He DIED? How?!"
"He, uh... he kinda keeled over by the fridge while nobody was home."
".......Are you f*cking kidding me?"
"I wish I was, man."

Was it "real"? Was it the kinda thing that happens every day? Can readers relate to it? Sure. Is that the kinda thing people pay $4 to see? Absolutely not. Very bad, borderline indefensible choice. You could put 25 death scenes in a hat, pull one at random, and any one of them would likely be better than "He stroked out while nobody was home."

It's like those people who say, "I love it in super-hero comics when the super-heroes don't fight bad guys, they make quips about their fashion sense and hang out getting coffee." Like CHRIST, stop reading comic books, you people. People don't pay money to watch people scratch their ass, take that nonsense and cram it. :lol:

Splinter's death was a big pile of Nothing. Literally Nothing. Y'know what's better than "Nothing"? ANYTHING!

Like, I could in theory book a match for myself where I went out, grabbed a guy in an armbar, and had him submit in less than 15 seconds. Because "That's real, that's Real Life," right? Except not one person in the audience paid their hard-earned money to see that, therefore it does not matter one bit if it's "Real Life", I just cheated my audience. I could have done anything else, I could have put on a spectacle and actually told a story and given people something to cheer over... but I didn't. I purposely chose to cheat them. "Because It's Real." I'd never get booked again if I did that sh*t, I'd get scolded and fired and sent home without pay. And rightfully so. Because you DON'T cheat your audience when you have any other option available to you.

People trust you to entertain them and take them on a journey, you don't give them blue balls and then say "Well, that's just how sh*t happens."

I literally rolled my eyes, slapped the comic down on the bed and said "Jesus, I HATE this f*cking book." Not the last time - April's bullsh*t was worse, but still. If I wanted to watch Peter Laird masturbate - and I don't - but if I did want to, I'd break into his house. Instead, I paid him $4 an issue for five years and there wasn't even a "Money Shot" to justify it all.

Again, his "style" is not at all fit for comic books. Which does not mean he is a "bad writer". It means that he knows how to tell stories, but not necessarily how to entertain people, and comic books, like wrestling, are an amalgamation of those two things.

His style is meant for prose. He would do very, very well in that medium, and some of his ideas that played horribly in comics would likely read much, much better as part of a book than a comic. His writing is entirely too "small" for action-oriented comic books.
--------------

Cudley is a Treasure. You just don't know what's good! :lol: He single-handedly (single-headedly? :lol:) holds the entire TMNT Multiverse together and he does it with style. I will forever be angry that I did not invent "Flying Cow Head that effortlessly traverses Time and Space and Parallel Dimensions" as a character/plot device.

And so're you! You're jealous, that's what it is! :lol: You didn't think of it, so you're squeezing sour grapes! Don't piss down my leg and tell me it's rainin', pal! :trazz:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

"Hmm, think I'll get me a drink and aaahhhhhhhhh F*CK, I'm dead."

Pppppppbbbbbbbbbbbth. Such a noble and fitting end to an iconic and beloved character. :roll: "Awwwww, but it's so humble! So poignant! So 'slice of life'! People die unceremoniously with no fanfare all the time!"

Not when you're asking people to pay $4 for the "privilege" of watching it, they don't. Wet fart. Again, I get "slice of life", I get that the entire point of the book was to "subvert expectations" and be extremely understated. But that is NOT how you "comic book".

I'm not saying you have to go full-blown "Pa Kent got killed by Brainiac", that was awful, too, from the opposite direction. I'm just saying, in a commercial medium where the entire point is not ONLY to tell stories, but to entertain people, that was maybe not the worst possible choice in how to kill of Splinter... but it WAS a very bad way to do it.

I mean, have you ever tried explaining his death to someone who has no idea about it? I have. It never plays well.

"He DIED? How?!"
"He, uh... he kinda keeled over by the fridge while nobody was home."
".......Are you f*cking kidding me?"
"I wish I was, man."

Was it "real"? Was it the kinda thing that happens every day? Can readers relate to it? Sure. Is that the kinda thing people pay $4 to see? Absolutely not. Very bad, borderline indefensible choice. You could put 25 death scenes in a hat, pull one at random, and any one of them would likely be better than "He stroked out while nobody was home."

It's like those people who say, "I love it in super-hero comics when the super-heroes don't fight bad guys, they make quips about their fashion sense and hang out getting coffee." Like CHRIST, stop reading comic books, you people. People don't pay money to watch people scratch their ass, take that nonsense and cram it. :lol:

Splinter's death was a big pile of Nothing. Literally Nothing. Y'know what's better than "Nothing"? ANYTHING!

Like, I could in theory book a match for myself where I went out, grabbed a guy in an armbar, and had him submit in less than 15 seconds. Because "That's real, that's Real Life," right? Except not one person in the audience paid their hard-earned money to see that, therefore it does not matter one bit if it's "Real Life", I just cheated my audience. I could have done anything else, I could have put on a spectacle and actually told a story and given people something to cheer over... but I didn't. I purposely chose to cheat them. "Because It's Real." I'd never get booked again if I did that sh*t, I'd get scolded and fired and sent home without pay. And rightfully so. Because you DON'T cheat your audience when you have any other option available to you.

People trust you to entertain them and take them on a journey, you don't give them blue balls and then say "Well, that's just how sh*t happens."

I literally rolled my eyes, slapped the comic down on the bed and said "Jesus, I HATE this f*cking book." Not the last time - April's bullsh*t was worse, but still. If I wanted to watch Peter Laird masturbate - and I don't - but if I did want to, I'd break into his house. Instead, I paid him $4 an issue for five years and there wasn't even a "Money Shot" to justify it all.

Again, his "style" is not at all fit for comic books. Which does not mean he is a "bad writer". It means that he knows how to tell stories, but not necessarily how to entertain people, and comic books, like wrestling, are an amalgamation of those two things.

His style is meant for prose. He would do very, very well in that medium, and some of his ideas that played horribly in comics would likely read much, much better as part of a book than a comic. His writing is entirely too "small" for action-oriented comic books.
--------------

Cudley is a Treasure. You just don't know what's good! :lol: He single-handedly (single-headedly? :lol:) holds the entire TMNT Multiverse together and he does it with style. I will forever be angry that I did not invent "Flying Cow Head that effortlessly traverses Time and Space and Parallel Dimensions" as a character/plot device.

And so're you! You're jealous, that's what it is! :lol: You didn't think of it, so you're squeezing sour grapes! Don't piss down my leg and tell me it's rainin', pal! :trazz:

You LIKE Cudley the fvcking Cowsteak and you HATE Splinter's poignant death in Volume 4?

You've taken too many blows to the head, my man.

[PizzaPower1985]

You LIKE Cudley the fvcking Cowsteak and you HATE Splinter's poignant death in Volume 4?

You've taken too many blows to the head, my man.

I agree with Leo here, CKD. Like, I know Mirage is the master of slice o' life and introspection and low-key storytelling BUT to have your franchise's YODA die so unceremoniously. WTF. You know who died by the fridge? Spencer Tracy after a hot night of action with Kate Hepburn. Splinter's not Spencer Tracy. Sorry!

Splinter deserved better, poignant or not!

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I agree with Leo here, CKD. Like, I know Mirage is the master of slice o' life and introspection and low-key storytelling BUT to have your franchise's YODA die so unceremoniously. WTF. You know who died by the fridge? Spencer Tracy after a hot night of action with Kate Hepburn. Splinter's not Spencer Tracy. Sorry!

Splinter deserved better, poignant or not!

You're a couple of damn Philistines, the both of you.

[Leo656]

You know who died by the fridge? Spencer Tracy after a hot night of action with Kate Hepburn. !

:lol: I'm sad I was not drinking coffee at the moment I read this because the spit-take would've been epic. :lol: Damn it!
----------

I'm a huge fan of Poignant, but comics (or at least ones which ostensibly lean on action) shouldn't be Boring or Understated, is all. Gotta give people the ol' Razzmatazz, sometimes. :trazz:

Again, there was way worse things, that just felt like some "We got all the original Star Wars actors back, let's not put 'em in one scene together" type of misreading the audience. But like I said, in another medium? The same exact scene might've played much better for me. Lord knows my scribblings would make a lousy comic book, but they're not designed for that medium. Like, I like drama quite a lot, but people generally expect something with a bit more "sizzle" from a TMNT book than what many of the moments in Vol. 4 provided. It was so heavy on Drama and light on Action, that moments that should have been a lot more impactful just don't land quite like they should. And I do feel that an "event" like Splinter's death needed a bit more "Oomph" for a comic book. He's just too important a character. Like, I felt for the Turtles, later, when they found out about it, but in the moment, "watching" it happen and seeing Splinter keel over? I just didn't feel it. I wanted to, it just didn't land on the bullseye, for me.

Buuuuuuut maybe if I'd read that same scene in prose, with a bunch of descriptive text about what was going on in Splinter's head as it happened and in the moment, it would be more immersive and engaging and impactful. I'll totally allow for that possibility. As-presented (and with That Art) it just came off as... flat.

But again, that's definitely NOT to say it needed to be some Pa Kent/Brainiac stuff, either, because that by contrast was OVER-done. Neither of those "Iconic Father Deaths" hit the sweet spot for me, due to being presented as Way Too Big or Way Too Small for the feeling they were trying to instill. In both cases, the writers (Laird and Geoff Johns) made their intentions perfectly clear, it just felt like they didn't stick the landing.
---------

And I know for a fact that that Cowlick pulls in more choch than Mark McGrath. SO HUH. :lol:

[IndigoErth]

Came across this art last night (via Redbubble) that I'm going to end up having to get on a shirt or something... Made me think of this thread because really, from a lady perspective, those are some swoon worthy eyes. What a shame if no fictional ladies look past the differences and take notice! :tlove: :D

https://i.imgur.com/SE6q0It.jpg

[Leo656]

Sooooo, you don't have to answer this, and you know you're one'a my All-Time Favorites, I just felt like this would be a perfect time to ask...

But... that voice clip of Leo saying "The girl is a fox!" from the 1990 movie... that's your Text Message Alert, isn't it? :trazz:

NO judgment! Just asking. :lol: My wife's got a tiny crush, too (maybe not so tiny... hmm... :fshifty:)... might have to razzle her to win your spot in The Blue One's "pecking order". :lol:

You totally don't have to answer the question. But why do I feel like if this dude were real he'd have his own harem without even trying? :lol::tgrumble:

But yeah, the cell phone thing... if you don't already do that, you should totally Do That.

[IndigoErth]

:lol: That would be hilarious, but I don't even have a smart phone so no, sadly it's not. :tlol:

Harem? Okay, look, how many am I gonna have to cut down? *possessive Taurus mode activate* :tlol: Actually, nah... there's an ever expanding Turtleverse, there's enough to go around. :D

[Leo656]

Now I know what to pretend to buy you for Christmas. :lol:

I can't speak for how to engage the other "usurpers" to your "claim". I can just tell you that my wife is ticklish under her right arm. You can do with that information what you will. :lol: :trazz:

Cudley the fvcking Cowsteak

I missed this before. :lol: Next time my wife and I have an Eyes Wide Shut party you are so f*cking invited, brah. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I'm a huge fan of Poignant, but comics (or at least ones which ostensibly lean on action) shouldn't be Boring or Understated, is all. Gotta give people the ol' Razzmatazz, sometimes. :trazz:

I think you're being unnecessarily harsh on that scene/plot simply because of the book it came in.

If it'd happened in a more action/plot oriented TMNT volume instead of Peter Laird Shilling for Moto Guzzi, Apple, and Al Gore: Now With Some TMNT!, would you honestly feel the same?

EDIT: Also, every time I criticize Volume 4 or Laird's writing choices, I feel like he's gonna hear about it, say "those assh0les!", and delay Volume 4 another two years. By my count, for every criticism I've made, he's not going to release Issue #33 until sometime 2169.

[PizzaPower1985]

:lol: That would be hilarious, but I don't even have a smart phone so no, sadly it's not. :tlol:

Harem? Okay, look, how many am I gonna have to cut down? *possessive Taurus mode activate* :tlol: Actually, nah... there's an ever expanding Turtleverse, there's enough to go around. :D

Well then... haha. If there were a TMNT multiverse and like every Leo ever came knockin', which Leo is your 1st choice?

[Leo656]

I think you're being unnecessarily harsh on that scene/plot simply because of the book it came in.

If it'd happened in a more action/plot oriented TMNT volume instead of Peter Laird Shilling for Moto Guzzi, Apple, and Al Gore: Now With Some TMNT!, would you honestly feel the same?

EDIT: Also, every time I criticize Volume 4 or Laird's writing choices, I feel like he's gonna hear about it, say "those assh0les!", and delay Volume 4 another two years. By my count, for every criticism I've made, he's not going to release Issue #33 until sometime 2169.

Naaaaaahhh, I can definitely see why you might think that because I rant about the book a lot, but I was still really, really trying to go along for the ride, at that point. Sincerely.

That Moment was just one of the first big things that tipped me off that this book wasn't gonna be very satisfying for me.

I actually have given a LOT of thought to how Splinter's death might have played better in That comic or just A comic, and to be fair, I don't have any really good answers. I can only report when things don't make me feel the way they're intended to. I can't always advise on how they'd specifically be improved.

I know for a fact Laird used to either lurk here, or someone would report my posts to him Back Then, because sometimes he would paraphrase me in the letter column with a little bit of defensive sass. Especially when I wasn't nice about his buddy Jim. He still kept the book going for like three more years so I doubt he's quite THAT thin-skinned. :trazz:

Point of fact, not long ago I PM'ed Lawson and apologized for being a little too stiff at times about his art, because I know I was, many times, and I know it got back to him and I know he wasn't thrilled. He totally no-sold it, doesn't look like he ever even read it, so... Eh. I feel like my conscience is clean on that end, at least. I tried!

Well then... haha. If there were a TMNT multiverse and like every Leo ever came knockin', which Leo is your 1st choice?

I think my wife would actually cut someone to get a swing at 1990 Movie Leo. I've seen the look she gets when he gets all Big Time on someone. :lol:

She generally thinks that kinda thing is a little bit silly, BUT, I guess Everybody Gets One. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Naaaaaahhh, I can definitely see why you might think that because I rant about the book a lot, but I was still really, really trying to go along for the ride, at that point. Sincerely.

That Moment was just one of the first big things that tipped me off that this book wasn't gonna be very satisfying for me.

I actually have given a LOT of thought to how Splinter's death might have played better in That comic or just A comic, and to be fair, I don't have any really good answers. I can only report when things don't make me feel the way they're intended to. I can't always advise on how they'd specifically be improved.

Fair enough. I do have a lot of love for parts of Volume 4. Leonardo and the Battle Nexus, everything with Michelangelo's story arc, Splinter's death, and the Utroms making first contact were all definite highlights.

Donatello's arc I liked, too, up to the point when he stayed shrunk. That seemed dumb to me.

But Volume 4 sure did my man Raph wrong. :tgrumble:

[IndigoErth]

A lady does not reveal her age, weight, or Turtleverse preferences! :tlol:

*cough* Adore Leo in general and most versions, but on average something akin to an aged up 2003 would fit the bill if he showed up and wanted to catch a movie. :trazz: I'm sure that's a very common choice. lol

Less common choice, I really wouldn't mind already older seeming PD 2016 Leo either, provided real world physics scale him down to a more normal size. (As it stands those PD Turtles would break a theater seat... :tconfuse: edit: Okay now I want a film short of them trying to sneak into a theater to catch a movie.) Easier to imagine live action Turtles in the real world than trying to translate cartoons ones to it... Plus, his profile is rather 2003-ish.

I think my wife would actually cut someone to get a swing at 1990 Movie Leo. I've seen the look she gets when he gets all Big Time on someone. :lol:

She generally thinks that kinda thing is a little bit silly, BUT, I guess Everybody Gets One. :lol:
lol Fine to leave it to her then. As much as I love the 1990 Turtles like anyone else...90s animatronics is a little puppety for my taste these days.

[Leo656]

Fair enough. I do have a lot of love for parts of Volume 4. Leonardo and the Battle Nexus, everything with Michelangelo's story arc, Splinter's death, and the Utroms making first contact were all definite highlights.

Donatello's arc I liked, too, up to the point when he stayed shrunk. That seemed dumb to me.

But Volume 4 sure did my man Raph wrong. :tgrumble:

I don't say this often, and perhaps I should, but I greatly admire Vol. 4 for attempting to do what almost no other version of TMNT even attempts to do, and that's move the story forward.

I just don't like a lot of the choices and execution. But all the credit in the world for ambition. Seriously. I poke and I razz and I speak my mind about what I think didn't work. But at least they let things go past "Year Three" or whatever of the TMNT story, which is more or less where most TMNT media hits a snag. It was an earnest attempt and it's written with sincerity. Props for that. It just could've used a little bit more of what I call "Oooomph-AH!" I can't explain exactly what that is, I just know that you know it when you see it.


*cough* Adore Leo in general and most versions, but on average something akin to an aged up 2003 would fit the bill if he showed up and wanted to catch a movie. :trazz: I'm sure that's a very common choice. lol


Ahhh, yeah, I saw my wife get a twinkle when we re-watched Season 1 of 2K3 recently, too. I can see it. He's rather "intense" in that show. :lol:

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

I don't say this often, and perhaps I should, but I greatly admire Vol. 4 for attempting to do what almost no other version of TMNT even attempts to do, and that's move the story forward.

I get what you're saying, but I feel like the core Mirage/Image continuity WAS always moving forward.

TMNT Volume 1, skipping the guest era nonsense, was always moving forward, with the Tales thrown in.

TMNT Volume 2 kinda did, but it didn't really last long enough to REALLY move the ball forward.

TMNT Volume 3 did for Raph and Mike, and the relationship with the Foot Clan. Also the Jones family.

And TMNT Volume 4 did.

It didn't always do it well, but Mirage/Image TMNT never rebooted itself, or ever left things at the status quo.

[Leo656]

Well I mean yeah, but Vol. 4 was waaaaay forward.

I also discount Image because... well, I'm just gonna say it. Anything with an "Image" sticker on it that was published in the 1990s, I probably don't have a lot of nice things to say about. :lol: I admit an inherent bias, totally. "1990s Image" is one of my all-time least-favorite "things" about the entire comic book industry, so that right there means I probably can't be fair to the TMNT book. Because Image. BUT. I defer to Laird, and he said it's fanfic. So I don't count it as "Vol. 3", even if it tried to fit in. I know, I know, "It was supposed to be." There's OTHER reasons I don't care for it. But yeah, I'm gonna leave Image out of the conversation, the water's muddy enough. :trazz:

I'unno if I'd want any other series to be set a whopping 15 years after their "debut" or whatever like Vol. 4 did, but it was a ballsy move, I give 'em that. All the movies and TV shows and most other things just flame out shortly after Shredder's finally gone. Like if they start each TMNT story at age 15, most versions never most past them being, like, 17-18 in-story. So just the fact that Vol. 4 was so far removed from the Year One stuff makes it unique in itself.

That's what I meant by "moving forward" in regard to Vol. 4, specifically; as in not at all closely tethered to the Year One type stuff. The idea of an ongoing TMNT story where a LOT of time has passed since their "debut" and it's more or less an entirely different world by then was a rather novel approach at the time. I don't mean like, story progression specifically, obviously Mirage always did story progression. I mean "We're not doing like Two Years or Three Years after they showed up, we're going WAY forward."

It maybe wouldn't have been what I'd have done but it made sense and was in itself a pretty great idea. I just think that the execution, at times, didn't make the most of the opportunities they created for themselves with that choice. There's definitely a lot of good ideas in the soup. It was just... not all executed to full potential.

I also liked that they let Tales Vol. 2 tell some of those stories that happened in-between series. I felt like that was a great approach and made the most of having two books; it just sometimes felt like Tales was "the real book" and Vol. 4 was Laird's fanfic or something. Because as far as tone and the kind of plots, I've said this before but Tales V2 was much more "typical" of what one would expect from a TMNT comic and the stories had a lot more pizzazz. There wasn't so much "waiting for something to happen", things Just Happened, a lot, and they answered questions we might have had about what went on between Vol. 2 and 4. I really appreciated that. Especially once it became obvious that Vol. 4 wasn't interested in answering any of those questions, or even acknowledging them.

Neither book was perfect, but I can't stress enough how much more engaging and satisfying, on the whole, that Tales was compared to Vol. 4. I didn't always end up loving what I read but I always looked forward to reading it.

It also came out more than once a year. That was nice. :trazz:

[MsMarvelDuckie]

How in Hades' name did we get from romance to Splinter keeling over?! Jeeze, I can't leave you two alone even for a minute....

Sooo, my take is that any/all of the boys would certainly jump at the chance for a relationship if an opportunity presented itself. Mikey, most of all, perhaps, but I feel like Raph would be right behind him in line. Leo, stoic as he tries to be, would be there too. Donnie- he's kind of an odd one. While I feel he'd welcome it if it happened, he's less likely to actively seek out such a situation. He's the thinker, the logician, he's the "Spock" of the group, and probably has an even tighter grip on his inner feelings than Leo in some ways. Not to say he doesn't get emotional, but he doesn't often show his vulnerability or his deeper desires.

I actually like to see them get involved with romantic relationships. It feels more realistic for them as emotional beings, it gives them a bit of humanity, and it makes for some very good story opportunities.

[Leo656]

Makes sense to me!

Also, threads will not remain on-topic so long as I exist. NEVAR!!! :trazz: All Life is stream-of-consciousness. I'm just ahead of the curve.

[IndigoErth]

Until we bring in the duct tape.

[Leo656]

I like where this is going.... :tgrin:

[Dejablue]

^^^ The Leo/Karai thing always bugged me. It's nothing more than a way to relate the 2 to each other. 2 ninja, highly trained and each very disciplined. Let's create an implied/possible flirtation?




Ahhhhhhh, that's a crock'a sh*t. :lol: The "too disciplined for romance" thing is, again, something people who can't get laid espouse. "I don't think about sex, I'm too busy working out." I known guys like that. Never lasts. When they can finally get some, that "discipline" of theirs falls by the wayside. Seen it a million times. P*ssy Trumps Everything Else, mang. :trazz:

Especially if it's later on in the story, after Shredder's done away with and things have "calmed down" in their lives. The guy's just gonna live in the gym doing push-ups and polishing his swords forever until the day he dies? Naaaaaaaaaaaah, no way, man. Nobody acts like that on purpose. Everyone yearns for connection, and Hormones aren't something you just turn off.

Leo might be a Supreme Warrior Badass, but he'd definitely want some P. He just don't think he's gonna get any so he doesn't make it a priority, that's all. If it came up? Game On. Dude ain't a robot.


Leo: While you were out building fruitful relationships and finding love in the warm embrace of a woman....

https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/023/465/blade.jpg

I Studied the Blade...

[IndigoErth]

Me: Immediately looks for a larger image to see if the sword looks like a cheap wall hanger.

Because of course I would... lol



Anyway.
Big explosion via sword, must be 1987 version.

Before Lotus gave him more to think about.

[Leo656]

Ain't it weird how he typically seems to get paired up with problem cases?

They've each got a "type". Raph is a furry, Leo's one'a them guys who tries "Saving Strippers". :lol: At least there's consistency!

[IndigoErth]

Just a fault of his nature, wanting too hard to believe there is good in everyone. Too big of a heart, hoping enemies he thinks still have a chance (such as Karai) are capable of turning it around and choosing another path, even though they probably won't.

I mean, it's not a bad fault to have, it's just not too realistic. Esp if he's too focused and doesn't step back to consider the bigger picture.

[Leo656]

We seem to think along the same wavelength often. That's rad. :lol:

I plan to one day send you a book's worth of "stuff" that I think you're gonna have, just, an awesome time with, based on insights like this. :tgrin:

[IndigoErth]

Sounds good. :twink:




Oh and Raph... Just recalled his short thing he had for Joi (2003), so I guess he technically does have one human. Even if the fluffy canine women seem more common with him. Wouldn't have minded seeing a little expanded on with Joi, even if it was kept a low key thing they never ended up acting on.

[Torterra]

Some ideas for romances for turtles I had if I were to create a series was going to be something like this:

Michelangelo: I was thinking a Neutrino since it's been shown in many incarnations that Mikey has always some attraction to a girl neutrino.

Donatello: Mona Lisa, IDW comics showed me that a relationship between those two could actually work. Both are pretty smart in their own way and I could see if Donatello was going to be in a relationship with someone he would probably want a person just as smart as himself.

Raphael: Either reintroduce Ninjara or go for Alopex

Leonardo: Either I was going to go for Lotus Blossom or possibly Karai. But my friend gave me an idea that would be interesting and she said what if Leo's love interest could be Koya. I'll have to work on the story for that but I think that could be an interesting thing.

[IndigoErth]

Something in the a similar vein as FW Mikey and Kala (the Neutrino) would be cute. Always kind of liked that they had thing, though just wasn't ever going to work out given the dimensional divide and all. Would be cool to see a version where it does work out.



Koya is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too left field for me and far beyond what he's always gone for in the last 36 years, enough to feel out of character. To each their own, if that is a cool idea to some people, hey, they should definitely have fun and go explore it. :thumbsup: But for me... no thank you.

Personally, I'd just like to seem him progress past wanting to "save" the human bad girl and crush on one that's already on his side. (Just good god, not in the 2012 Donnie kind of way.) Not that he was ever really into Karai like that until 2012 went for it (then still created a new impossible obstacle). Anything else was just read into by the viewers, so until then Lotus was really his only "bad girl" crush I think.

[Torterra]

Something in the a similar vein as FW Mikey and Kala (the Neutrino) would be cute. Always kind of liked that they had thing, though just wasn't ever going to work out given the dimensional divide and all. Would be cool to see a version where it does work out.



Koya is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay too left field for me and far beyond what he's always gone for in the last 36 years, enough to feel out of character. To each their own, if that is a cool idea to some people, hey, they should definitely have fun and go explore it. :thumbsup: But for me... no thank you.

Personally, I'd just like to seem him progress past wanting to "save" the human bad girl and crush on one that's already on his side. (Just good god, not in the 2012 Donnie kind of way.) Not that he was ever really into Karai like that until 2012 went for it (then still created a new impossible obstacle). Anything else was just read into by the viewers, so until then Lotus was really his only "bad girl" crush I think.

Yeah the Koya thing is kind of a "Really?" idea I mean give it to the the right person I think it could work she told me that it would start out something similar to Leo and Dark Leo interaction from Fast Forward. Where she hostile to Leonardo but Leo teaches her self control and guidance and they sort of form a respect to each other as warriors her words not mine.

But for me I would bring back Lotus and change it up so that maybe she's a member of the Hamato clan like the daughter of a good friend of Yoshi's who came to NY to find him. Cause maybe the foot clan kill him and she wants revenge and needed the help of Splinter and turtles to do it. But Leo and Splinter try to talk her out and a relationship forms between leo and her.

[Hamato Yoshi]

TMNT , Bond or MotU , its mostly about the action......doesnt mean it cant happen now and then though

[Dejablue]

Doesn't Koya already bang a shark? I don't want turtles going after taken females. This isn't a soap opera lol.

But to be honest...PizzaPower kind of has a point? A friend of mine takes offense at Leo656 taking a shot at the too disciplined for romance trope. It happened all the time in history, many of the major philosophers were super autist virgins. And if you can concede to the existence of martial artists monks, or spiritual martial artists, you can easily work with that trope

Fictional characters like Sherlock Holmes would count as a super autist virgin that is considered very attractive in today's and yesturday's culture. Might be the first character to start this trope. And its not like Sherlock failed at attracting females. He just wasn't interested Of course now people say thats because he was teh ghey but that is neither here nor there. And also not true.

So I'll give PizzaPower that. The "I'm too focused in perfecting my skills for sex" trope is valid.

I just disagree with it because its no fun whatsoever.

[newfan]

While the discipline/focus/training is a strong part of Leo, there is more to him than soley and only that. He might not be looking for these things but that shouldn't have to mean that he feels nothing when it crosses his path, or even attractions aside, would he like nothing else in the little downtime he has?

Edit: Anyway, way back in Mirage Leo was shown to have a love interest (or relationship?, not got to that part yet) so it is in his character, just the degree of how much of this he experiences is something else.

[Torterra]

Wait didn't Leo in a alternate reality in a miniseries from the Mirage version didn't he get married and had a daughter with a human woman? This is what I'm talking about:

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Tales_of_Leonardo:_Blind_Sight

[Dejablue]

I think that was part of his vision quest so it was more like a dream than alternate reality?

[Dejablue]

So someone in here said Leo would date Koya. And now given current events in the comic. I have to laugh in hindsight.

[IndigoErth]

That immediately came to my mind as well and started wondering if only coincidence or not... Hmm.

Still, I don't care where it's been suggested now... good god no. lol

[Dejablue]

I mean Campbell do be lurkin lol.

[Utrommaniac]

Doesn't Koya already bang a shark?
She considers him to be her brother so....no.

I only care about one relationship in this whole franchise, built out of nothing and a single panel. And I don't even care if it ends up how I think it's been since 2018.

YOU ALL KNOW. I may have gone down the Zimvoid, but this still burns within me.

Shipping the turtles has always rubbed me the wrong way, from any and all directions. April and Casey was always a little bit more interesting to explore, but I just tend to gravitate toward romances that are already in progress. Being pulled and teased around is obnoxious and wastes a lot of time for me.

[Dejablue]

Thanks for clarifying. I was completely wrong about Koya and Bludgeon's relationship.

I don't like teasing romances that drag things out unnecessarily. Alternatively I do love a good slow burn. That's different. The only reason I don't outwardly hope for canon romance for the turtles is because the creators keep saying they hate it, and because the written quality of romance with the main characters has always been either controversial or a disaster. Especially in the cartoons.

There is always fanfiction. And maybe one day a writer who knows how to write fuzzy feelings good may come around, but I'm not holding my breath.

[The Great Saiyaman]

Bit late to this party but here's my findings about Romance in the TMNT taking the 2012 series.

Leo and Karai
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/66/0b/06/660b06a9c83622eb6dfc6843d89a6b19.gif
I liked how their coupling wasn't one of "We have to give Leo a girlfriend just because..." From the way the two first met and their first few playful flirt fights and their clash over their respective clans, Heck, even when they were full blown enemies, she always called him "Leo" whereas she always used the full names when dealing with the other turtles in addition, they always behaved like a married couple. It also took the two of them the full duration of the series until they were at a stage where they could openly show affection.

Raph and Mona Lisa
https://media1.tenor.com/images/81913486e3db1f6e0914cbf50be551d0/tenor.gif?itemid=5677425
VERY different from Leo and Karai, this one was a "We have to give Raph a girlfriend just because." They kissed in the episode in which she first appeared. It was very much a rush-job. But what I DO love about them is how they reversed the roles as Raph is pretty much the girl in their relationship.

[superstaff]

So someone in here said Leo would date Koya. And now given current events in the comic. I have to laugh in hindsight.

What happened?


Shipping the turtles has always rubbed me the wrong way, from any and all directions. April and Casey was always a little bit more interesting to explore, but I just tend to gravitate toward romances that are already in progress. Being pulled and teased around is obnoxious and wastes a lot of time for me.

I don't really see the problem with it. They're teenagers, and with that, comes the curiosity of said teenagers exploring crushes/relationships. For me, at least, it's fitting for writers to explore that aspect. Of course, I don't want the romance to take over the plotline, and become a CW show. But having them develop feelings, and yearning for relationships seems normal, and also human (yes, they are mutants, though they are sentient and have human behaviors and feelings).

[Dejablue]

Nothing has happened (yet) but Lita from the future says Leonardo and Koya get together.

[TigerClaw]

What happened?



I don't really see the problem with it. They're teenagers, and with that, comes the curiosity of said teenagers exploring crushes/relationships. For me, at least, it's fitting for writers to explore that aspect. Of course, I don't want the romance to take over the plotline, and become a CW show. But having them develop feelings, and yearning for relationships seems normal, and also human (yes, they are mutants, though they are sentient and have human behaviors and feelings).
Oh man! Imagine TMNT done as a CW Show. :tlol:

[superstaff]

Nothing has happened (yet) but Lita from the future says Leonardo and Koya get together.

:tcry: Oh. Right. Forgot about that.

[neatoman]

Oh man! Imagine TMNT done as a CW Show. :tlol:

Then we'd get people watching every single episode to mock it on Youtube. So at least there would be some entertainment value would come out of it, albeit indirectly.
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[MsMarvelDuckie]

As some here may know, I have always enjoyed shipping the turtles. Mostly canon, ie, Mikey/Kala or Renet, Leo/Lotus or Karai, Donnie/Jhanna or Irma (a bit of a stretch, but they always seemed kind of close in the OT series) and of course Raph/Mona Lisa or Alopex(Ninjara). But I have played with other pairings, too, as those who have read my fics will know. I like exploring that side of their personalities, their loneliness, and need for connections.

[Prowler]

There were several reasons that made the 1987 TMNT cartoon series appealing to me back when I was a little kid. Don't ask me to name all of them, since I can't really explain what exactly some of those things are, but the lack of romance was a major one.

You see, as a kid, I always HATED when there was romance in cartoons and movies. Nothing more cringe worthy and embarrassing to be 7 years old and watching two characters on TV kissing or having a romantic moment while your mother or another adult family member is sitting next to you watching it. Plus, I also hated the cliche of main male and female character dating or falling for each other. Therefore TMNT was a REAL relief in that sense to me. And, as you may have now guessed, I really disliked the 2nd Neutrinos episode where Michelangelo and Kala have it for each other.

But still, even with the years going by and me getting more mature, I've NEVER liked romance in TMNT and have always felt like it didn't fit the series. The Turtles aren't supposed to have girlfriends or sex in my mind. The only "romance" I can accept in TMNT is April and Casey. But any romance involving the Turtles I could do better without. It kinda defeats the point of them being "alone" in the universe. And needless to say, romance between the Turtles and human beings is a BIG NO for me.

The turtles have historically provided me with action, sci-fi and humour, which is what I expect from them. Don't want any romance distracting them from fighting Shredder.

[superstaff]

The turtles have historically provided me with action, sci-fi and humour, which is what I expect from them. Don't want any romance distracting them from fighting Shredder.

I mean...

Romance doesn't distract other shows, movies, books, or media from adventure plotlines where the characters must defeat a villain. That is, if there is a good writer at the helm, anyway.

I don't see why one or more of them having a romance would detract from the action, sci-fi, humor, or the general plotline. It wouldn't, not if the writing is solid, and can juggle all of these elements together.

[Coola Yagami]

Then we'd get people watching every single episode to mock it on Youtube. So at least there would be some entertainment value would come out of it, albeit indirectly.
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I mean... Isn't that what the Black Nerd did for every episode of the TMNT 2012 show?

[neatoman]

I mean... Isn't that what the Black Nerd did for every episode of the TMNT 2012 show?

No, I'm pretty sure he was actually praising that show. These guys watch every episode and laugh at the stupidity of it.

[Rooish]

There were several reasons that made the 1987 TMNT cartoon series appealing to me back when I was a little kid. Don't ask me to name all of them, since I can't really explain what exactly some of those things are, but the lack of romance was a major one.

You see, as a kid, I always HATED when there was romance in cartoons and movies. Nothing more cringe worthy and embarrassing to be 7 years old and watching two characters on TV kissing or having a romantic moment while your mother or another adult family member is sitting next to you watching it. Plus, I also hated the cliche of main male and female character dating or falling for each other. Therefore TMNT was a REAL relief in that sense to me. And, as you may have now guessed, I really disliked the 2nd Neutrinos episode where Michelangelo and Kala have it for each other.

But still, even with the years going by and me getting more mature, I've NEVER liked romance in TMNT and have always felt like it didn't fit the series. The Turtles aren't supposed to have girlfriends or sex in my mind. The only "romance" I can accept in TMNT is April and Casey. But any romance involving the Turtles I could do better without. It kinda defeats the point of them being "alone" in the universe. And needless to say, romance between the Turtles and human beings is a BIG NO for me.

The turtles have historically provided me with action, sci-fi and humour, which is what I expect from them. Don't want any romance distracting them from fighting Shredder.

This is how I feel too. Maybe because I like when it's focused on the family and their bond most. Not sure why it's a sign of growth to put the Turtles in romantic relationships when those often bring out the worst in the characters.

[Prowler]

I mean...

Romance doesn't distract other shows, movies, books, or media from adventure plotlines where the characters must defeat a villain. That is, if there is a good writer at the helm, anyway.

I don't see why one or more of them having a romance would detract from the action, sci-fi, humor, or the general plotline. It wouldn't, not if the writing is solid, and can juggle all of these elements together.
That's fair, but I just don't like the idea of romance in TMNT overall I guess. That's not a side I have much of an interest in seeing writers explore.

This is how I feel too. Maybe because I like when it's focused on the family and their bond most. Not sure why it's a sign of growth to put the Turtles in romantic relationships when those often bring out the worst in the characters.

I guess it's because, if we want a more adult TMNT series, there has to be some sort of romance or sexuality(no, not explicit sex scenes) to make it more realistic and relatable, since those are things most adults experience at some point in their lives and a big part of their lives?

I can understand the reasoning, but I don't think we need to see the Turtles having dating lives. At least I don't care for it. I haven't read Mirage in its entirety, but from what I've read of vol.1 and th early Tales issues, clearly there was no need to give the boys love interests to make the story more interesting. It's not like they had much time or room to breathe when they went to space. Romance would just get things sidetracked.