CGI vs 2D Tv show

[Torterra]

Simple question which style do you prefer the tmnt to be for a television show?

Myself personally, I prefer 2D since you can have a lot more freedom in the animation of characters especially for the fight scenes.

[Leo656]

2D, same. 3D CGI just makes it look like a show desperately wants to be "hip" and trendy and those shows generally age like fruit. When so much of a show's identity is wrapped up in its visuals and "Look how shiny this is!" they're automatically boxed in.

[newfan]

So long as I like the look of whichever they use I could take either, with there being a few shows I'd prefer a mix than just one or the other.

[IndigoErth]

As long as it looks good I'm fine with either, though my first choice would be 2D and an aesthetic along the lines of 2003.

[IMJ]

As long as it looks good I'm fine with either, though my first choice would be 2D and an aesthetic along the lines of 2003.

I'd say this summarizes where I fall with this as well.

[ssjup81]

One of the things that made me kind of "meh" in regards to the 2012 series initially was that it was a full CG animated series. Yeah, I'd watched some CG shows before in the past, like Reboot (which I did like), but by 2012, I was sick of seeing people using CG stuff. After watching the series, though, I did like it.

Now, my preference...probably 2D. One thing that I did dislike about the 2012 series was that it was extremely limited in regards to its world building. This series takes place in NYC and yet you rarely saw people. I know they mostly hung around at night, but there still should be people walking around...especially in a place like Manhattan. If this was a suburb in Long Island or something, fine, but not the heart of the city. I also wish we could've seen Leonardo and Donatello's rooms.

I also hated the fact that when we saw Casey practicing and April meeting up with him, he was the only one there or even April in her school. How odd is that? So yeah, at least with a 2D setting, it's easier and cheaper to have multiple characters around without having to reuse the same models over and over.

[Leo656]

I had the exact same problem with how barren and empty the streets were... and then I watched Season 1 of the 2003 show and they did the exact same thing most of the time. :ohwell: Other than "Nano" I can't recall another episode from that Season that actually showed people just walking around.

I mean, it's NYC; even at 3am there'd be people packed ass-to-elbow on the streets so even the fact that most of the show takes place at night isn't a very good excuse.

So I guess it's less a CGI thing and more a factor of, cartoon shows just don't spend a lot of resources on dropping in background characters. I mean, they ultimately ARE shows for little kids, and they're definitely not going to notice that kind of thing. So I guess it's just one'a those things.

[newfan]

When I first caught sight of '12 I think it was Leo's smooth looking CGI face turning to the screen, right away I liked the look of the TMNT, as pointed out in another thread though, the CGI came up best on the TMNT themselves.
Budget needs to be enough for the crew to do what they want to do, in either case.

[ssjup81]

When I first caught sight of '12 I think it was Leo's smooth looking CGI face turning to the screen, right away I liked the look of the TMNT, as pointed out in another thread though, the CGI came up best on the TMNT themselves.
Budget needs to be enough for the crew to do what they want to do, in either case.The actual Turtle designs were nice. I really liked how distinguishable they were and how the features suited their characteristics somewhat. Like how Mikey had freckles which helped to give him that innocent look, or Raph with his chipped plastron showing how he's the brawler of the group, or Donnie being taller with that egghead, or Leonardo seemingly being the balanced one, but also having that idealistic optimistic look about him. I loved the designs and their personalities for the most part.

Donnie's look was also a bit nerdy. I like how it was done there. For the 2014 film, though, there was no subtlety. They slapped every nerdy thing in existence on him. lol

[Powder]

It all comes down to style. I prefer 2D to 3D by a landslide as a general rule, but I'd naturally take good 3D over bad 2D any day. A lot of modern cartoons are verrrry choppy & garbage looking, done cheaply & lazily in flash. So it's just a matter of what looks good & moves fluidly. Character design counts for a lot, too. Some things don't translate as well outside of the medium they were created for. Fortunately, the turtles don't seem to have that problem, for the most part.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Which ever I prefer depends entirely on when it gets made and the art style.

Just don't combine the 2 mediums

[PApagreg]

Both have their ups and downs 3D allows for some good fight scenes and decent choreography but like everyone said it has the downside of having the entirety of New York City feel empty. Don't get me wrong 2k3 also have this problem but there are ways you can make a city feel full that you can't do with 3d and seeing how TMNT lives in a big crowded city a 3d animated television show doesn't fit.

[newfan]

So far as having background characters in the streets, I get seeing more people around and also the turtles having to dodge them but I wouldn't want them to have to factor in tons of people every time they went out or were fighting, getting in the way. Maybe some crowded scenes but it fits the story I guess if we can believe that no-one can see them in fights .....or notice a massive thing like the Shellraiser driving around the city.

[IndigoErth]

Imo, at least find a reasonable excuse that makes it work... Such as definitely always showing the primary streets being much more populated and looking how NYC should look, but 75% of a series focuses on quieter side streets where the TMNT are less likely to be seen, since they can't go battle it out with the Foot in the middle of Times Square, etc. anyhow.

Maybe that's supposed to be the case for some of these shows and whatnot, but they don't show it very well.

[ssjup81]

So far as having background characters in the streets, I get seeing more people around and also the turtles having to dodge them but I wouldn't want them to have to factor in tons of people every time they went out or were fighting, getting in the way. Maybe some crowded scenes but it fits the story I guess if we can believe that no-one can see them in fights .....or notice a massive thing like the Shellraiser driving around the city.But it's New York City...there should be people shown walking around or even showing people driving would work better. The episode when Slash was first introduced wasn't so bad in this regard. They showed people out, at night, walking around, going on about their business. That should've been the norm.

Even if they didn't show the turtles interacting or having to dodge people, they still could have an establishing background shot to show how busy the city is and then switch to the turtles in an area not so busy. Even them going to Murakami's bothered me because it was always so empty, but in that regard it could be said that they're going there after closing hours to avoid being seen by humans. When Karai and April were there, it was strange to see. They could've had a couple more characters in there having a meal too. I've never seen an empty New York restaurant before. :P

So yeah, stuff like this would've been nice and the biggest offender of this was April's school and how she was the only person there and she called the turtles for help. They should've had students and teachers rushing out, running away, or something with April hiding inside when that old-lady Kraangbot started busting up the place.

[newfan]

But it's New York City...there should be people shown walking around or even showing people driving would work better. The episode when Slash was first introduced wasn't so bad in this regard. They showed people out, at night, walking around, going on about their business. That should've been the norm.

Even if they didn't show the turtles interacting or having to dodge people, they still could have an establishing background shot to show how busy the city is and then switch to the turtles in an area not so busy. Even them going to Murakami's bothered me because it was always so empty, but in that regard it could be said that they're going there after closing hours to avoid being seen by humans. When Karai and April were there, it was strange to see. They could've had a couple more characters in there having a meal too. I've never seen an empty New York restaurant before. :P

So yeah, stuff like this would've been nice and the biggest offender of this was April's school and how she was the only person there and she called the turtles for help. They should've had students and teachers rushing out, running away, or something with April hiding inside when that old-lady Kraangbot started busting up the place.

I figured the school thing was out of hours which is why no people, though you might have had the odd lingering staff member I guess.

Agreed with the background characters in general setting, I wasn't coming from the view that they shouldn't be there, I was just thinking of budget and what they can get away with. I was arguing that I didn't need every time we saw them outside to have to factor in a lot of people, but then they mostly fight or stay where they can't be seen so that wouldn't be an issue there.

[IndigoErth]

That's the part that always bugged me about that school scene. Not that it was empty of students, since it seemed like it was after hours and April was just stopping by, but the lights are all on as if it's still open, so you'd at least think they'd have run into a janitor mopping the floors or some adult that is alerted to hearing the sounds of fighting an alien robot.

[PizzaPower1985]

It depends. How much furry bull**** are we gonna have to deal with? If no one under the age of 10 is allowed to watch it, I'll go with 2D. Otherwise, they already made my TMNT show 17 years ago and even then it was still a "kids show"... far from perfect. We're not at any level where CGI can ever be used for TMNT in a positive way because it will look like a children's cartoon. For me to like it they would have to spend about $1 million per episode and no one would ever be able to say they were pandering to children. The CGI would have to be so incredible that 15 years after its final episode NO ONE would find any flaws in the designs or animation. The TMNT would act like the cast of Love and Rockets and not act like what 6 year olds think teenagers are.

Give me a show where Raph stabs somebody in the chest and where Casey Jones drinks beer. Then I'll watch it.

[IndigoErth]

like Reboot (which I did like).
Wow, haven't thought of that one in years. Wasn't it like one of the first in 3D animation? Cutting edge for its time I'm sure, but now looks soooo early in the development of the medium. lol




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(edit: Yeah, sorry, I kind of went off on a tangent...)

Side note... Recently got me a physical copy of Labyrinth. (Think the last copy I ever co-owned was way back on VHS!) You know, while that owl in the beginning looks noticeably a little stiff today, it still holds up incredibly well for an attempt at a realistic CGI owl created for a movie that came out in 1986. Knowing how relatively basic, compared to now, that the 3D animation programs still were when I was learning some of it around 1998, I'm kind of blown away that someone managed what they did with that owl in the mid 80s. (Esp when you look at the art of an early 3D series like Reboot!) I feel like the technology shouldn't even have existed yet -- let alone have capable computers! -- but I guess they had enough to fight with to make it work with enough hard work (and budget).

Although I'm even more baffled now to consider that in the late 80s the computers we were introduced to in my school, and I'm sure many others, looked something along the lines of this:
https://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2012/04/128k-twiggy-mac.jpg

And were taught that old black and green screen triangle "turtle" program:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/2e/44/5d/2e445dc290a9b7f49125f07c8681b3d1.png

https://venturebeat.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/logo-1.jpg?strip=all
And around that time, give or take, a lot of us were also playing the old Oregon Trail game in school, with the same kind of black and green screen. (Was the color the screen or just those programs?)

Yet this was produced prior to 1986, however long it took them to create Labyrinth:
https://i.pinimg.com/originals/ee/75/42/ee75423e43948c027adf8ccc605a9a9f.jpg

I mean, not that they were probably working with something equally basic as school computers, but what nearly futuristic computer were they using? :teek: (And was it the size of a room. lol)

[MsMarvelDuckie]

To be fair, Lucas and Hansen were pioneers in the medium. After all, Willow was made around the same time, and it had some AMAZING early CG work that still holds up today.

[Leo656]

Y'know what *I* haven't seen in years? A woman talk about "Labyrinth" without mentioning David Bowie's tight pants and what's in them. How refreshing.

Indigo gets a Gold Star for the day. :lol: You rebel, you.

[IndigoErth]

:tlol: There's a time and place for these things.

Also, very true, Duckie.

[PizzaPower1985]

The image below was made by my friend, Andrew. Now, it's not perfect as Raphie has nostrils and he's missing the elbow and wrist pads BUT it's better than that 2012 thing that all the kids are into these days... This could work towards a more mature take on a CG series.

https://cdna.artstation.com/p/assets/images/images/013/114/224/large/andrew-tuazon-ninjaturtle-turnaround.jpg?1538117448

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

The eyes look wrong, but everything else looks great! Just model some actual eyes instead of the "comic blank whites" and I'd be 100% on board.

[IndigoErth]

Personally, would tweak it a little (likewise the eyes, and prob reduce the hand size just a little, adjust the foot shape -- personal preference, I'm just tired of oversized and/or fat feet/hands on character designs -- and get those elbow pads in place to fix the odd arm proportions), but overall it's not bad. :thumbsup: Size and placement of the nostrils aren't obnoxious or anything, so I don't mind them really.

[PizzaPower1985]

Personally, would tweak it a little (likewise the eyes, and prob reduce the hand size just a little, adjust the foot shape -- personal preference, I'm just tired of oversized and/or fat feet/hands on character designs -- and get those elbow pads in place to fix the odd arm proportions), but overall it's not bad. :thumbsup: Size and placement of the nostrils aren't obnoxious or anything, so I don't mind them really.

But at least we got the shells right in this design, right? Finally the shells are a good size and shape.

[IndigoErth]

Yes, very true. :tsmile:

[sleeplessknight]

It doesn't matter. Just make a good show.

Good example of CG turtles: 2012 Nick series
Bad example of CG turtles: 2014 & 2016 Platinum Dunes "live action" movie

Good example of 2D animated turtles: 2003 4kids series
Bad example of 2D animated turtles: Rise of the TMNT

Just make a good show and the art form it is presented in won't matter.

[IndigoErth]

Just make a good show and the art form it is presented in won't matter.
Yeah, based on this present show and those movies... hopefully it is becoming clear to them that trying to halfass it or go off too far into left field doesn't cut it.

Design choices may be questionable, but not 100% unforgivable if the show concept and movie screenplays had been better. In neither case did they try to make something that wasn't immediately forgettable. "Some stuff happened" is pretty much my main takeaway. Forgettable stuff that few will ever share gifs and images of and say "remember this part??" like they do with the 90s films, comics, and other cartoons to an extent. Which more than anything is just sad.

[ssjup81]

Y'know what *I* haven't seen in years? A woman talk about "Labyrinth" without mentioning David Bowie's tight pants and what's in them. How refreshing.How could we not! It's just out there for the whole world to see! :lol:

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I like both but I prefer 2D overall since in many cases, it ages better with time compared to CG animation.

Like many here have pointed out, the 1st season of the 2012 show hasn't aged too well in its animation.

[newfan]

I haven't really seen enough older CG to compare but I have come across older 2D toons which looked aged to me, so 2D isn't exempt from that, I'll get a better idea of comparison in time. I can imagine how CG might be less watchable...maybe.. so long as a thing is still watchable while looking a little aged I'm fine with revisiting something I enjoyed.

[Leo656]

How could we not! It's just out there for the whole world to see! :lol:

Aaaaaaaaaaaaand YOU get the Gold Star for today!!! :lol::tgrin:

Innigo Erf better step up her game, this one might go into Sudden Death! :trazz:

[IndigoErth]

Indigo had a long day and willing to forfeit this round. lol

[CyberCubed]

The Nick 2012 show and the 2007 movie had pretty good CG for their time, but I do prefer 2D.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

The Leo vs Raph scene from the 2007 film is possibly the most beautiful piece of animation in tmnt history.