Why was Rise cancelled?

[Mugic]

I've been out of the loop, is there a reason why Nick pulled the plug on Rise?

[Coola Yagami]

I wonder if it's due to the toys not selling. I've seen successful shows get canned due to toys not selling, and even though this show is still airing it's final episodes, I don't even see the toys anymore.

[Andrew NDB]

I wonder if it's due to the toys not selling. I've seen successful shows get canned due to toys not selling, and even though this show is still airing it's final episodes, I don't even see the toys anymore.

Yeah, that right there. If it was selling it would still be on shelves.

[IndigoErth]

Agree.

I can understand people who liked it wanting it back, but when they're watching it on Nick for free...why is Nick going to invest time and money into a show that isn't pulling a big enough audience and profiting enough to be worth it to keep it going.

Now, to be fair, they weren't exactly giving people that much product to buy, and the Turtle figures in particular were not that great looking and didn't translate well to real life toys. (Some of the non-Turtles were better, but too scarce?) That said, well, I guess Rise fans should have gone crazy cat lady mode and bought irrational quantities of it to support it and make them think it was popular. But that sounds a little unreasonable.

The last Rise products I saw, and beyond the end of the toy line, was some kid gift set for probably Valentine's Day (or Easter?) and they weren't exactly flying off the shelf. I still see Rise gift bags in Dollar Tree currently (at the one I visit for my job every week) and they aren't exactly selling fast either.

But hey, if any Rise fans what any remaining memorabilia, check the gift bags. And if not for a gift, well... I dunno, cut out and frame a side of it for art?

[Powder]

The toys were trash. Really, just awful. The articulation was easily Playmates' best, but the likenesses were God-awful. Especially for Raph & the Donnie which came packaged with a drone vehicle of sorts. Toys largely fund these cartoons, as I understand it, so their failure may be the most simple answer, sure. I saw a lot of guys who didn't like the show support the toy line, out of brand loyalty. I also saw many express that they'd have liked to, if only the toys didn't look so bad, bias against the actual episodes aside. Even 'haters' like to pepper their shelves with a new set of turtles, if only to sort of represent their evolution over time. I bought them despite my own criticisms, but largely on clearance, & out of desperation. They/we deserved better figures, for sure. At least concerning the turtles themselves, anyway. Others, like Meat Sweats & other baddies, were great!

Obviously, the series making dramatic changes in style, tone, & character turned off the majority of longtime fans (not me, I loved it, but I'm not blind to the fact). Those changes seemed to scare off the majority of companies who otherwise would have wanted to license these characters for the merch, too. Remember, 2012 had people saying Turtlemania was back. You couldn't go ANYWHERE without seeing tons of goods with CG renderings of those turtles on 'em. That's a lot of revenue to drum up, or in this case, not see. I saw Rise party favors & stickers, not much else. They made it impossible to support this iteration financially, honestly.

Nick also treated it very poorly. Odd scheduling, hiatuses, lackluster updates, shoving it into obscure time slots & ultimately the Nicktoons channel, etc.

[neatoman]

There could be any number of reasons:

Low toy sales (most likely)
Low TV ratings (second most likely)
Not enough people watching it digitally (wherever that was, if anywhere)
Too expensive (I'm willing to bet Aussies cost more than Koreans)
Not enough buzz on twitter (no, really, that's a thing these days)
Another pitched show (possibly TMNT related) was projected to have better chances

There's also the possibilty that Rise was never meant to last more than two or three seasons in the first place. There are thirteen Transformers cartoons (twenty-two if you count Japanese exclusives and online ****) and hardly any of them lasted more than seventy episodes, most don't even exceed fifty-two. So it is indeed possible that TMNT cartoons from now on may not last one hundred plus episodes.

[Andrew NDB]

Rise always struck me as a quick, temporary experiment to keep something TMNT out there while they work on the next "real" TMNT cartoon.

[IndigoErth]

Did anyone ever even see a t-shirt, at least a kid one, for this show? I saw them online, but never a single one in person.

Also, pulled out my wrestling Leo, one the few Rise figures I bought. Why did they give him a shirt that's basically wearing him? Compared to my 'in disguise' PD Leo (honestly a fav variant figure among recent incarnations), I just don't get it. Playmates clearly knows how to do a good sculpt of a Turtle in clothing, so why did they make the choice they did with the Rise figure, just putting a rubbery plastic "shirt" on over top of the figure? Was it a cheap shortcut to not bother with a new sculpt?

Tried to get a pic of these two. (Though too lazy at this hour to post it for reference.) Annoys me that the Rise figures don't even stand up well.



Not enough buzz on twitter (no, really, that's a thing these days)
I keep seeing people now claiming that it's popular on Twitter... but well, where was that popularity when it mattered, and it kind of needed to be popular on television, too, not just a minority of people online after the fact. :tconfuse:

[Andrew NDB]

The people that it needed to be popular with the most aren't old enough to have a Twitter account yet.

[IndigoErth]

True, it's a good point. They did want to go younger. Guess the little kids didn't care. (And/or like my nephew banned from shows that insanely hyper.)

Hopefully, maybe Nick is realizing that where the money is, is more-so with the people old enough to earn it, as well as have influence on what their own kids are seeing if it's good enough to pull the older fans in.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Did anyone ever even see a t-shirt, at least a kid one, for this show? I saw them online, but never a single one in person.

The only shirt I saw of this show was a grey one with all four turtles and the show logo on it. Saw no kid wearing one though.

But yeah, pretty much what everyone else has said. We all saw the cancellation coming but what caught us off guard was when they shortened the season from 26 to 13 episodes. That shows how much Nick really didn't see much profit nor further use for this series.

[Autbot_Benz]

Pretty much what everyone said above. If your toys don't sell your cartoon is F'ed. Not to mention changing a lot of the characters so much that it turned off the hardcore turtle fans.

[lonewarrior20]

also nick went out of their way to kill it. changing the air times, moving it to nick toons, only releasing two dvds in all this time. as for the toys if they would have stopped releasing wave one constantly and given us the figures they kept hinting at it probably would have sold better. i really wanted that hidden city add on.

[The Turtle Terminator]

The toys and the time/channel changes/breaks were the shows killer. A lack of consistency of new episodes will eventually turn away children, unless they are a really big fan of the show. This leads to declining toy sales which will lead to cancellation

[Andrew NDB]

also nick went out of their way to kill it. changing the air times, moving it to nick toons, only releasing two dvds in all this time.

Probably all in response to poor ratings/receival. Attempts to right the ship.

[CyberCubed]

It's also possible it was originally re-tooled from being a Michael Bay/Platinum Dunes movie tie-in cartoon. Donatello has the same goggles on his head that he wore in the movie, and Raphael is "bigger and bulkier" like the Turtles were in the movies.

After the movies bombed they probably re-tooled the show into what it is now. Remember this cartoon came out in 2018 so it was in pre-production as far back as 2016 when the second movie came out.

[neatoman]

It's also possible it was originally re-tooled from being a Michael Bay/Platinum Dunes movie tie-in cartoon. Donatello has the same goggles on his head that he wore in the movie, and Raphael is "bigger and bulkier" like the Turtles were in the movies.

After the movies bombed they probably re-tooled the show into what it is now. Remember this cartoon came out in 2018 so it was in pre-production as far back as 2016 when the second movie came out.

Yes, it is certainly posssible that it was originally meant to be a tie-in to the PD movies... But they sure changed a lot if that was the case... Like way more than you'd expect if that was the case. If it really was meant to be a tie-in (and not just loosely using some elements) then you'd expect more similarities to remain. As examples:

Splinter being a literal lab rat
Sacks being where they came from
April being an adult reporter
Vernon hanging around being a creep
Shredder being a regular human
Karai being a modern day member of the Foot
Krang and Dimension X
The Turtles being open allies to the police
Casey being a male corrections officer
Baxter Stockman being an adult scientist
Bebop and Rocksteady... Having any signifigant presence

Not saying all or even most of these elements would have been kept, just that expect more than just "Raph and Donnie kinda look the same as in the movies... Sort of...".


I keep seeing people now claiming that it's popular on Twitter... but well, where was that popularity when it mattered, and it kind of needed to be popular on television, too, not just a minority of people online after the fact. :tconfuse:

Yes, I know it's dumb but appearently it is something companies track these days.

[Coola Yagami]

I tried to buy em on the basis of the show might not be for me, but at least if the toys look good... And I just couldn't. They were just too crappy looking.

[IndigoErth]

While I don't mind making them look different to a degree, I particularly did not like the size difference between Raph and the others. The exaggerated skinny limbs on the other three were on their own not good for figure designs. Far too flimsy and can hardly stand up. If an adult has a hard time making them stand steadily on their feet, how frustrated are the kids going to get with that who they wanted as the audience? That just hurts the play potential. When I saw the Rise basics Five Below had, the limited articulation was better for the young kids, but I only got my nephew Raph because I really thought he might end up breaking the others with those skinny limbs. :tconfuse: And that face paint and the basic Leo looking drugged or something... ugh.


As for PD... ehhhhh... I dunno, there's clearly some inspiration there at least in the case of Raph and Donnie's designs -- and maybe utterly coincidental that Rise Leo's red marks falls almost exactly across where PD Leo's scar(s) is above/across his right brow and cheek so maybe they looked at that and it evolved into the red stripes -- but enough else is different that I doubt it was supposed to be a PD show per se. I think it's also probable they did the old "hey, here's a random idea, now what franchise will we apply it to?" lazy nonsense.

[The Great Saiyaman]

From what I understand, Nickelodeon went through a management change and the new people in charge decided to get rid of what was considered to be "Surplus material" from their predecessors, which included Rise.

The only Rise toy I have is the one of April, since that was the best looking of them all.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61A6PfldRRL._AC_SX425_.jpg

Problem is that she has the same issues as the others: as in they don't look the way they do in the show.

https://i.pinimg.com/564x/8e/f9/58/8ef958a9400bc76210412cd783c0e6ba.jpg
Yes, a dress is a bit hard to pull off in toy form but it's what made her look.

[CyberCubed]

It's also kinda sad that black April will always be remembered for this incarnation alone, I'm pretty sure April will be white again in the next cartoon. They'll probably always associate black April with "Rise" and assume it didn't work.

Back to the basics.

[IndigoErth]

Hm, I always figured it was just a shirt she has on.



Can I just add, why didn't they make a Mayhem plush? I mean come on... That and I'll always be annoyed there was no Ice Cream Kitty plush (edit: or figure!). Mayhem had more potential than what he was given. But isn't that the way of Rise.

[Roseangelo]

The issue I had during Rise is one that has happened before, but it's a mistake they keep making.

When a company commits to a show, the industry seems to demand that all merchandising needs to reflect that show and that show only. This worked out fine for the 2K3 show and the 2012 show, because those shows used "standard" turtle designs. If a parent needed to buy their kid a Ninja Turtles toy or, in my favorite example, a Ninja Turtles halloween costume, great, no problem, you've got lots of great choices.

But then Fast Forward came along and the turtle designs changed to crap with weird gear (markings) over the turtles. Now if you wanted a halloween costume, it looked like this:

https://crazyforcostumes.com/ProdImages/DIS6693.jpg

Then the 2012 show happens and those are nice, standard designs and all the merch looks good.

Then the 2014 movie happens... oh god.

Luckily, the Bay movies didn't take over all the merch; it co-existed with the 2012 merch. But now when you went Halloween costume shopping, this was one of the options:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uMkAAOSw7GRZCBas/s-l400.jpg

LEGO dropped the TMNT license after supporting the 2014 movie, and I'm sure there were others.

So now the 2012 show ends and Rise comes to replace it. Look, I think it's neat that they got creative with the Turtle designs for this show, but now you've got Turtles that don't look like the Ninja Turtles parents know, so when Johnny asks for a Ninja Turtles toy they don't find what they think that is supposed to look like. And here is what you get in the Halloween costume aisle:

https://spirit.scene7.com/is/image/Spirit/07559966-a

(There's actually a pretty interesting range of Rise costumes if you google these, all of which are terrible.)

Meanwhile, there is a small trickle of what Nickelodeon calls "retro" merchandise, which is generally ok. But it tends to be in specialty stores or in a different department other than the basic toy aisle. And I think they've even had some retro Halloween costumes (ok, just did a quick google search and they seem to only be available in adult sizes).

Anyways, this is a lot of words to say that they took a creative risk and they KNEW they were taking a creative risk. None of the vocal reaction to the show should have been a surprise to them. BUT THEN THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON IT. They green lit a second season (and made a HUGE press release about that) before the show ever aired and after they knew people didn't really like how it looked. And then they went and gave it a freaking Netflix movie. THINK ABOUT THE WASTED OPPORTUNITY. No one is going to care about that when it comes out and Netflix is going to be all, "Thanks, but no thanks" on more TMNT projects.

It's fine to take a creative risk with a show, but it's stupid to put all of your turtle eggs in the one basket when there's no reason that you can't have generic TMNT merch on the shelf alongside some Rise-specific toys because hopefully some kids do like and want that.

AND I WILL NEVER FORGIVE RISE FOR CHANGING THE TMNT ICE CREAM.

ahem.

[Leo656]

You're really good at this. :tgrin:

[oldmanwinters]

Well said, Rose!

[Allsparrow]

Some people like coffee, some people love coffee, some need a non-fat latte with decaf espresso and cinnamon drizzle. Grabbing a coffee sometime can be seen as a date, or an excuse to friend zone/brush off somebody.

Turtles, like coffee, covers a lot of ground, and just like coffee, it can be made strong, or weak. Some people are addicts, and so you want that main-lined hard stuff, you want the purest, most Mirageiest experience possible. Some are so bored of the same old, they need it to be reimagined and deconstructed. If Seth is looking to please the base, just make the thing they never got, distilled, purified, Mirage. If he wants to go after Gen Alpha, mock it, shave down the edges, gentrify and liquify it into a new beast.

Preacher was pretty good. The Boys is pretty good. Seth seemed to know how to translate those to series, without losing what made them cool. So long as he doesn’t inject too much of himself into the series, it should be good.

[Autbot_Benz]

Rose nailed it on the head "chef's kiss"

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I agree with what Rose said as well. Though I'm sure Nickelodeon wants to forget about this show even before the movie comes out.

[CyberCubed]

Still hoping the 2012 series gets revisited for a movie. Ciro said he gave a number of pitches to Nick to bring it back for a movie as a follow-up to the series. I hope it happens.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

You'd think Nickelodeon would just go with that instead of the announced CGI film by Seth Rogen.

[IndigoErth]

I dunno, Nick still at least knows that 2012 is popular enough that when they recently licensed some face masks for charity (https://ot-sports-online-store.myshopify.com/collections/tmnt) they used 2012 for it. :tthumbsu:

edit: If Nick can't really go and give us the kind of show we dream of, at least not on their channels... I at least still wouldn't mind a 2D series that is essentially an aged-up version and continuation of the 2012 Turtles. Edit the designs and art style to freshen it up, sure, but still keep the looks of them mildly recognizable enough as an older version of those Turtles.

Nick managed a popular one in their first try, but may be hard to repeat that success if they remain determined to go too far off the rails.

[shredder orokusaki]

mY NEXT series will start ifn a few months and it will be as seiorus as 2012 and 2003 series were. No suprise that it failed. I was not fighting the turtles as much as the previous series, there wasnt aliens, i didnt have any good and powerful henchmen like Hun Rocksteady bebop and Tiger claw, it was much more kiddie and funny than even the 1987 series was... That why it failed but evrytihng will be good in the next series that will start in a few months and will be dark and serious like the 2012 and 2003 series. The failurp roved that such kiddle and funy series cant be succesful.

[Slash-Dash]

as far as I know, rise hasn't been officially cancelled.

correct me if I'm wrong.

[srmff]

I don't think that I've ever come across Rise merchandise in Ireland. Of course, I'm sure that the toy stores used to stock them. However, in the supermarkets I've only ever seen TMNT 2012 cakes and birthday cards.

[Autbot_Benz]

as far as I know, rise hasn't been officially cancelled.

correct me if I'm wrong.

Nickandmore!
@nickandmore
?
46m
That was the TV show's finale. The second season, which was ordered in July 2018 before the show had even premiered, was apparently cut from the original 26 episodes to 13.

Susanna

@SuspiciousAnna
? 43m
Welp it?s done! It?s been a crazy two years of animating on #rottmnt and I have loved every second of it! Thank you guys so much for the constant and unwavering support!?? THANK YOU!!! #rottmntfinale #rottmntspoilers


ant ward
@Ward_Ant
? 19m
Hope everyone enjoyed the #rottmntfinale -Thanks for being amazing fans. Thanks to the entire crew for being amazing humans.

Those are all people who worked on Rise

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, the posts of those behind it made it pretty clear, but anyone waiting for the words "it's canceled" probably aren't going to get it, because being straight forward doesn't seem to be a thing that shows and whatnot do anymore. I hate that companies do that though. (Hell, I still want Josh Gates' Destination Truth to come back since they never said a word to suggest it was over and never explained it -- and why not just tell us?? -- but after a while it was safe to assume, esp since he moved on to other series. Sucks that companies do this.)


However, in the supermarkets I've only ever seen TMNT 2012 cakes and birthday cards.
I work for a card company and while only one of my stores I service sells a TMNT card, can confirm it has also remained the 2012 version.

[Galactus]

Hardly anyone was watching the show or buying the toys.

As for why hardly anyone was doing these things I imagine it just came too soon after the 2012 show to really hook people in. Most kids who hadn't outgrown the cgi show wouldn't take to a new version and there hadn't been a significant turnover of new kids coming to the franchise fresh.


Beyond that I think there are certain concepts that just don't work well for this franchise. New non-Shredder central villains (Dregg, Dragonlord, Draxum), magic and techno weapons, excessive accessorising, giant 'roided up turtles and this show did all of that.

Defenders of Rise will say that fans don't like change (and that is true) but this wasn't new or trying anything different. It was taking a bunch of stuff that time again has either been met with mixed reactions or outright flopped with fans and doing it all in one show.

I kinda get why Nickelodeon would do it. People often obsess about how kids will be able to tell the turtles apart so accessorising and giving them all different proportions sounds like a good idea on paper. It's always a problem that few versions of TMNT can get past the Shredder as the main villain only Archie and 2K3 really managed it, even Mirage kinda struggles with City at War the last universally considered good story after Saki's final defeat in Return to New York. I get why coming up with new villains is a popular idea but it rarely ever works out well. I just feel that the powers that be always look at these issues and think that 'this time it will work'.

[IndigoErth]

I feel that some new concepts could work fine for TMNT, but if you're going that route you really can't half-ass it and expect it to work out, and that has happened all too frequently.

When it came down to it, for example, what was the point of the mystic weapons really? Just because? They never really played much part in the show other than "look a flashy thing." If the explanation for something can be summed up as "just because," that is sort of a rather lousy reason.

After all, the 2003 Turtles got mystic weapons too. But it was made to matter that they got them, that they'd earned them, it mattered that Leo came away disappointed and probably wondering why he didn't and how it impacts him. I realize these are very different shows, but even some hyper, candy coated comedy could at least have a decent enough excuse and reason to have them other than they saw shiny objects and stole them without a thought or care.

Sure, I'm probably giving it more thought than fans of Rise care for and would hand wave it off, but if a show runs by the premise that you're not supposed to think about it, then, well, I guess it also died by that motto, too, didn't it.


Draxum had potential, but they again just stuck with scratching the surface then dropped the ball in favor of a Shredder that never really got to pose that much of a threat to the world beyond the TMNT. They could have gone into more detail and given his existence and history in the mystic city more depth, and not forgotten about the reason he was a bad guy after a short time. I really wouldn't mind seeing someone else's deeper, more impactful take on Draxum someday.

[lonewarrior20]

The issue I had during Rise is one that has happened before, but it's a mistake they keep making.

When a company commits to a show, the industry seems to demand that all merchandising needs to reflect that show and that show only. This worked out fine for the 2K3 show and the 2012 show, because those shows used "standard" turtle designs. If a parent needed to buy their kid a Ninja Turtles toy or, in my favorite example, a Ninja Turtles halloween costume, great, no problem, you've got lots of great choices.

But then Fast Forward came along and the turtle designs changed to crap with weird gear (markings) over the turtles. Now if you wanted a halloween costume, it looked like this:

https://crazyforcostumes.com/ProdImages/DIS6693.jpg

Then the 2012 show happens and those are nice, standard designs and all the merch looks good.

Then the 2014 movie happens... oh god.

Luckily, the Bay movies didn't take over all the merch; it co-existed with the 2012 merch. But now when you went Halloween costume shopping, this was one of the options:

https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/uMkAAOSw7GRZCBas/s-l400.jpg

LEGO dropped the TMNT license after supporting the 2014 movie, and I'm sure there were others.

So now the 2012 show ends and Rise comes to replace it. Look, I think it's neat that they got creative with the Turtle designs for this show, but now you've got Turtles that don't look like the Ninja Turtles parents know, so when Johnny asks for a Ninja Turtles toy they don't find what they think that is supposed to look like. And here is what you get in the Halloween costume aisle:

https://spirit.scene7.com/is/image/Spirit/07559966-a

(There's actually a pretty interesting range of Rise costumes if you google these, all of which are terrible.)

Meanwhile, there is a small trickle of what Nickelodeon calls "retro" merchandise, which is generally ok. But it tends to be in specialty stores or in a different department other than the basic toy aisle. And I think they've even had some retro Halloween costumes (ok, just did a quick google search and they seem to only be available in adult sizes).

Anyways, this is a lot of words to say that they took a creative risk and they KNEW they were taking a creative risk. None of the vocal reaction to the show should have been a surprise to them. BUT THEN THEY DOUBLED DOWN ON IT. They green lit a second season (and made a HUGE press release about that) before the show ever aired and after they knew people didn't really like how it looked. And then they went and gave it a freaking Netflix movie. THINK ABOUT THE WASTED OPPORTUNITY. No one is going to care about that when it comes out and Netflix is going to be all, "Thanks, but no thanks" on more TMNT projects.

It's fine to take a creative risk with a show, but it's stupid to put all of your turtle eggs in the one basket when there's no reason that you can't have generic TMNT merch on the shelf alongside some Rise-specific toys because hopefully some kids do like and want that.

AND I WILL NEVER FORGIVE RISE FOR CHANGING THE TMNT ICE CREAM.

ahem.

I'm kinda reminded of the 87 series episode raphael meets his match when a guy told raph his tmnt costume was better than raphs.

[Torterra]

Besides the toy-lines Nick just also treated it like crap. I mean only show the newest episode then go right back to Spongebob or Loud House with the occasional showing of the previous episode before the newest episode come on (Although they did that with the 2012 series too). I watched a video about Rise from TheCartoonGamer 8000 and he said YTV treated Rise a whole lot better than Nick showing it multiple times on the channel. Having pretty cool fan art promos showing fan art from fans that liked the show, making promos with actual turtles. Seriously Canada treats their shows a whole lot better than we do.

[sleeplessknight]

Remember when people were complaining that the 2012 Turtles had 3 toes and wraps around their feet?

Pepperidge Farms remembers.

[Ioz]

The ratings have been abysmal compared to the 2012 show and the toys failed at retail, so I think whatever is in production will be finished (52 total episodes & Netflix movie?) and then dropped after that. The 3 other cartoons blew this one out of the water.

[CyberCubed]

^ The show already ended.

[nintendo2600]

I've been out of the loop, is there a reason why Nick pulled the plug on Rise?


Cause it was awful and without a doubt the worst TMNT cartoon ever.

EDIT: As in so bad, I think that Nick owes us all an apology for bastardizing this beloved franchise.

[Andrew NDB]

Cause it was awful and without a doubt the worst TMNT cartoon ever.

EDIT: As in so bad, I think that Nick owes us all an apology for bastardizing this beloved franchise.

Why would they apologize to a demographic not even remotely close to what they intended for the show? This was for 5 year-olds. If the 50 or so TMNT fans in their 30s or 40s want to tune in, they're not going to turn them away but they're also not going to listen to them.

[Leo656]

Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question.

Can't wait for the hot new Dick Tracy reboot aimed at 5-year olds. Kids love 1930s-era gangster shenanigans starring a guy in a canary-colored fedora who's so square Ronald Reagan would tell him to lighten the f*ck up. That'd play huge with the Paw Patrol set, I'm tellin' ya. Sure, traditionally the mean average age of your typical hardcore Dick Tracy fan is about friggin' 60, but hey... why not roll the dice, right?

I really feel like it's ignorant for any brand to ignore and/or alienate its existing base in their attempts to reach or create a new one. Why push people away who WANT to give you their money? They already care! It makes no sense.

[Andrew NDB]

Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question.

The answer is that TMNT has "worked" to hook about 3 generations of kiddies just by virtue of the "basic formula." They aren't banking on or caring about any carry-over.

[Leo656]

I'd love to see the numbers that back up that supposition.

I think kids were *mildly* excited about the 2003 reboot, but got over it pretty quick. I've seen little to no evidence that anyone under 30 paid much attention to anything since.

Sure, a few people our age sat their kids down and "encouraged" them to watch the new Ninja Turtles gimmick every couple years... but how many of those kids stayed on, and how many of them immediately got bored after 5 minutes? That's my question.

They haven't created "new fans" in large numbers. They've periodically managed to hold a younger audience's attention briefly, before they go back to their other pursuits. But that's not at all the same thing. They haven't kept those younger fans on, AND they've pushed older fans away, a few more with each new version.

Only ONE audience of children ever watched any iteration of TMNT and subsequently stayed with it as lifelong fans: Our Generation. For us, it was more than a passing fancy and that's why we're still around.

How many millions of people who were 6 years old in 2003 still pay attention to the brand? In 2007? 2012? I'm not talking anecdotal "Well MY kid likes it" stuff. Obviously there are figurative handfuls of people. I mean, what's the Hard Data that proves that legions of "new fans" are ACTUALLY being created with every new version of TMNT?

If they're NOT actually creating passionate, lifelong fans with their increasingly bizarre and off-putting creative choices - and I have to believe they are not until proven otherwise - then I have no choice but to question their commitment to the "New Fans, Not Old Fans" business model.

It'd be a different story if their plans to create millions of fans out of thin air every three to five years actually worked. Toy sales, TV ratings, ticket sales and internet chatter, though, strongly suggests otherwise.

The people who cared in 1990 still care. That won't change. The kids who watched the first Season of "Rise" are already onto the next fad. The 2012 kids, too. Again, it's odd and frustrating to me that anyone would spend all of their time and resources catering to such a notoriously fickle demographic when there's a whole group of people Right Over Here who already want to give you their money as long as you don't try and insult their intelligence.

You can razzle-dazzle anybody out of their time and money One Time with a few fast words, but you can't make long-term profits that way. You have to actually create lifelong fans and keep them satisfied, or it's all for naught.

WWE is in the same boat. They've publicly said that they don't care about older fans because they fully believe that they can invent a whole new audience every 5 years. But that hasn't been the case and despite all the money they make from advertisers and action figures, wrestling is by far less popular right now than it's been in 40 years. Same problem as the TMNT brand: Older fans stop watching because they find the product insulting, and the kids don't stick around because they're fickle and easily bored.

Same thing. "We can lose people, it's fine; we'll just create a new audience." Doesn't work. Hasn't worked. Dangerous game. You can only run the same con so many times before people smarten up. You can't abuse your hardcore audience and expect to simply make up the difference on the back end. It's all very presumptuous and it always backfires eventually.

[Andrew NDB]

Definitely 2k3 and 2012 weren't carried or even significantly bolstered by 20 or 30 year olds. There's no way. I know even back then we could go on a message board or a group or a whatever and find other adults that still love TMNT... but for 99% of TMNT fans? They outgrew it and never looked back. Hell, even around here. The people that were around in the 2000s that I swore would always be in the fandom... they're out.

[srmff]

I also have my doubts that the 2003 and 2012 shows were successful just because people who grew up in the 1980s supported it. I would imagine that the majority of action figures are being bought by actual children. I'm one of those under 30 fans who grew up in the 2000s. Sure, children are fickle. However, they only need them to watch the current iteration of TMNT that's on TV. They don't need them to become long-term fans.

To be honest, I don't think that there would be enough long-term fans from back in the 1980s to keep the brand alive and successful. I think that they need a new audience to survive. Who knows, maybe I'm underestimating their numbers. Another problem is that a lot of people who grew in the 80s might not lot to see new versions of their show. When I mentioned the 2012 show to a friend, her reaction was almost one of disgust. It's only the '87 and '03 show that are any good (the ones that we grew up with). She never actually watched '12 show but it's new and different to what we watched so it's automatically not good.

Not that it's something that people would casually bring up in conversation but I don't know anyone who is a fan of TMNT. I've seen children with TMNT merchandise though. TMNT isn't a brand like Star Wars where there's continuity with the original story. Every new series features new turtles, a new tone and a reset of the story so it's not as if people are invested in these characters and want to see their lives progress since it's a different world.

[IndigoErth]

so it's not as if people are invested in these characters and want to see their lives progress.
Actually, that's exactly what I want. Not always rehashing the same thing over and over with every single incarnation NOR making stupidly drastic changes and rewrites the way Rise did in an effort to redo it. If someone keeps the portrayal of the TMNT who they are and should be as individuals and focuses instead on coming up with good new stories from other periods in their lives, then I'd probably be on board.

Little kids might not be invested, they've got too much vying for their attention anymore as it is, but a lot of long time fans still sticking around certainly are.



As far as 2003 goes, it's the closest to the kind of show I really want to see on tv again in look and tone. And that is coming from someone who did not grow up on it and only saw it via a binge watch several summers ago in my 30s, some years after it had ended.

Okay, maybe not that last season or two. In that last season esp you can really see some of the cruddy cartoon trends starting to seep in that are still around today. :ohwell:

[Leo656]

I really missed you. :tgrin:

[Turnstone]

I’ll answer the question from the very first post without reading through all the other pages. It was canceled because the animation was horrible, the characters were horrible and the stories were horrible. The end. You can close the thread now.

[Cordial Bird]

I hated the writing; the story telling and the dialogue.

The character designs of Rise went a little bit too extreme for me, as well.

[Luckyday]

So I guess the lesson here that majority of fans just want a grounded and gritty tmnt. Maybe it do better with CBS? They seem like they trying to get on the adult animation bandwagon with Star Trek so why just try it with the TMNT property if their kiddie market attempt had fell flat on its face?

[Leo656]

Viacom would honestly and truly prefer it if anyone over the age of 10 just stopped paying attention to TMNT forever. They've come dangerously close to saying so out loud multiple times.

The fact that there even ARE older fans ruins their entire narrative of TMNT being a "children's property". As does the fact that when presented with TMNT in any incarnation, most kids nowadays just ignore it altogether OR give up on it very fast.

Our existence is an "inconvenient truth" that upsets what their preconceived notions were as to what TMNT "should" be when they bought it. Nick has never had to try and please anyone older than age 10-12 with any of their shows/products, so they have no idea how to do it and would honestly rather not have to even try.

They'll realize this strategic error one day, but it might be way too late by then.

[nellyp]

Did anyone ever even see a t-shirt, at least a kid one, for this show? I saw them online, but never a single one in person.
:

I bought a couple shirts for my son at Walmart and he wore them for a bit but now is way more into Spider-Man and Pokémon so Rise of the TMNT merch is at the bottom of his drawer.

Rise of the TMNT is such a bad property as a whole. The toy line was bad and most of the figures never came out here in Canada. I was buying them for my son but interest was lost when the line wasn’t getting refreshed. The sewer lair looked cool and often went on sale for half off but still never got it and at this point it would be a waste.

The concept of the show crapped on everything that came before it. The animation was lazy. The layout of the episodes being released as half episodes and full episodes and some being packaged together while others weren’t made it even a pain to watch as an on demand show. My kids watch stuff like Teen Titans Go but they won’t watch this. They took the break between season 1 and 2 and we never came back to it. I never even realized season 2 started till 2 months ago but still the desire to go back to it and binge watch is just not there.

I would compare it to TMNT: Next Mutation from when I was young but I can’t cause I have actually watched all of Next Mutation and own the complete DVD so this is far worse in my opinion. A real low point for the franchise so good riddance.

[Powder]

The concept of the show crapped on everything that came before it. The animation was lazy.

Have your opinions but these are simply not true.

It made plenty of references/homages to past material, including even some obscure Mirage stuff. & the animation? Bruh. https://twitter.com/idolomantises/status/1087392592730431488

[Luckyday]

Have your opinions but these are simply not true.

It made plenty of references/homages to past material, including even some obscure Mirage stuff. & the animation? Bruh. https://twitter.com/idolomantises/status/1087392592730431488

Hating on the animation is something that I can never understand. Cgi tmnt series took a lot of short cuts to save money. Sometimes using still shots with speed lines background, which I didn't mind because I know they were just saving their budget for scenes with Shredder or season finales.

And what really gets me is hearing 2k3 has better animation.

I seriously want examples in videos. Please enlighten me.

[Maruten]

I'm (as of very recently) a big Rise fan, after being suuuuper skeptical when we saw the first images, but I fully understand most of the complaints people have about the show.

But I can't fault the animation. I don't remember the last time I saw a 2D animated series with so much energy. It's such a refreshing change after years of every TV cartoon being some plodding Flash thing full of stretched clipart.

[Powder]

Hating on the animation is something that I can never understand. Cgi tmnt series took a lot of short cuts to save money. Sometimes using still shots with speed lines background, which I didn't mind because I know they were just saving their budget for scenes with Shredder or season finales.

And what really gets me is hearing 2k3 has better animation.

I seriously want examples in videos. Please enlighten me.

A lot of people mistake animation with art style. Plain & simple.

[skylord]

Just my two cents but I thought TMNT 2012 was pretty damn popular. I saw merch for it everywhere. I think it was a bad move by Nick to create a new TMNT so quickly after the 2012 run. I can imagine plenty of kids who liked the 2012 show just didn't like Rise because they weren't familiar with it.

Gen X = 1987 - early 90s
Millenials = 2003 - late 2000s
Zoomer = 2012 - late 2010s

The end dates have less of a cut off because kids fall out of interest at different times. I think the Zoomer period needed to end before a new TMNT cartoon could be as successful.

[IndigoErth]

The animation of this one varies... Sure, in some action scenes it looks decent when there are plenty of frames and it's smooth, but there are other parts they take short cuts and make it choppy like some anime like to do and I hate that in animation. Also not a fan of the trend of needing to make animation overly hyper and exaggerated. By exaggerated I mean frames in animation where objects, etc are distorted to suggest motion.

[Luckyday]

I watch a lot of anime so I don't mind the "short cuts" because you can't blow the budget if the guys are eating chips on the sofa, but honestly if animation was consistent then some scenes are not going have "snap" impact or weight when characters punch each other or slam into walls.

This also plays into how they show humor in the show which is heavily dependent on visual gags and comedic timing which again you won't be able to do if the animation speed is linear.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

And what really gets me is hearing 2k3 has better animation.

I seriously want examples in videos. Please enlighten me.

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpoxqnjsnY1qii6tmo1_500.gif

[Zachatello00]

http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lpoxqnjsnY1qii6tmo1_500.gif

I literally laughed out loud at this, so much so that I've had to explain to the rest of the staff what I'm laughing at.

[IndigoErth]

:tlol:

I think that gif's frame rate is roughly what Rise's frame rate is. 2003 is smoother. :trazz:

[Luckyday]

https://media.giphy.com/media/lP3teORUq6aBO/giphy.gif

[clockstomper]

It's a mixture of cable dying, a piss poor timeslot and poor toy sales. I think this will find a fanbase if it's ever put on Netflix, so people can actually see it. Too late to save it, though. I myself have no way to watch it, putting the show on an app after a set number of weeks could have helped. Also, if it was anything like Power Rangers' broadcasts on Nick, it was probably highly inconsistent, sometimes disappearing for weeks, am I right? And you only had one or two chances to catch it?

I also think the timing was bad, the 2012 versions of the Turtles haven't cooled off at all, you still see merchandise and comics using those designs all over the place. The current generation of kids still fondly remember them. I think we might end up seeing that cast come back at some point once this generation has disposable income of their own, which isn't that long to be honest. A kid who was 10 when that started will be going to college soon.

[CyberCubed]

I also think the timing was bad, the 2012 versions of the Turtles haven't cooled off at all, you still see merchandise and comics using those designs all over the place. The current generation of kids still fondly remember them. I think we might end up seeing that cast come back at some point once this generation has disposable income of their own, which isn't that long to be honest. A kid who was 10 when that started will be going to college soon.

I honestly wonder if the failure of this show will see the 2012 series revisited, maybe as some standalone movies.

[80gmrp]

Not sure about framerate between 2003 and Rise, but, in animation terms, I did see a lot of “tweening” in Rise, whereas at least the 2003 animators tried their best at drawing most if not all of the 2D frames (there was some 3D CGI thrown in as well at times). I mean, if people like Flash animations and the tweening that defines them, it’s fine by me, but it’s not what I would expect from a high end professional production, personally.

As for it being too soon after 2012, while I don’t rabidly hate Rise anymore, I’ve always had that sentiment: as a creative person myself, I know that the public needs time to cool down from a given release or else sales will be poor; that much is economics in general.

[CyberCubed]

I still maintain the 2012 series should have gotten 7 seasons and then ended, then wait 5 years and do another cartoon. Instead they just ended a show for an even less successful show with even lower ratings than the first cartoon would have gotten with two extra seasons. As said the merch/toy sales for the 2012 series was still a lot higher too.

But what's done is done. So I guess Nick will learn from this before they greenlit whatever the next TMNT cartoon is.

[IndigoErth]

Not sure about framerate between 2003 and Rise, but, in animation terms, I did see a lot of “tweening” in Rise, whereas at least the 2003 animators tried their best at drawing most if not all of the 2D frames (there was some 3D CGI thrown in as well at times). I mean, if people like Flash animations and the tweening that defines them, it’s fine by me, but it’s not what I would expect from a high end professional production, personally.
Was only a joke, though the amount of frames used for Rise and many other "modern" cartoons do seem notably lower than "older" shows like 2003. And agree, have long felt that cutting down on the amount of in-between frames just looks cheaper. But I suppose you get out of it what you put in...

If companies keep cutting out frames eventually cartoons will just be slideshows, won't that be fun?? /sarcasm



Comparatively, anyone know what was used to create 2003? (At least those better seasons.) I've assumed it had to be computer done itself since animation cels don't seem to exist, but presumably still hand done via computer. It's not impossible to get good looking hand drawn computer aided animation, but is doing it via Flash really so different and impossible to get the kind of look of shows like 2003? Or is the final product really just down to budget and the present trends in animation?

It's just sad to see a cheapening of animation overall.

[PizzaPower1985]

Comparatively, anyone know what was used to create 2003? (At least those better seasons.) I've assumed it had to be computer done itself since animation cels don't seem to exist, but presumably still hand done via computer. It's not impossible to get good looking hand drawn computer aided animation, but is doing it via Flash really so different and impossible to get the kind of look of shows like 2003? Or is the final product really just down to budget and the present trends in animation?

It's just sad to see a cheapening of animation overall.

Couldnt agree more. We are going back to the 1970s era where animated cartoons on TV were seen as being for 4-7 year olds. The Batman: Animated Series revolution that suddenly made cartoons aimed at ALL AGES in thee 90's has disappeared. THANKFULLY, with Laird in charge, WE GOT a TMNT show that older TMNT fans can appreciate. But... in this climate and perhaps in the near future, 2012 and Rise is going to be as good as it gets.

[PizzaPower1985]

I also gotta share a story here...

When Rise was announced I was talking with a friend and he was speculating that it might be more IDW/comic inspired and less childish. I was looking forward to it.. a lot... And then... the designs dropped and my heart dropped into my stomach. And... that was it for me. When a few praised the animation, I checked it out and it had some fluid movement but... NO! it wasnt made for me!

[Leo656]

What beyond "wishful thinking" would have made him think any of that? Jesus. Talk about mis-calling your shot.

[PizzaPower1985]

What beyond "wishful thinking" would have made him think any of that? Jesus. Talk about mis-calling your shot.

i know... i guess when you're so desperate for the "NEW" thing to be what you want, you'll believe anything.

[IndigoErth]

Supposedly the Rise float will be back for the Macy's Thanksgiving parade. Sure there's the Netflix thing coming, but you can't even find this show on tv, or the app now I guess, so why even have a float for a canceled show in a parade.

[PizzaPower1985]

Supposedly the Rise float will be back for the Macy's Thanksgiving parade. Sure there's the Netflix thing coming, but you can't even find this show on tv, or the app now I guess, so why even have a float for a canceled show in a parade.

good question. it got cancelled. why would they even pay it anymore mind unless they are just trying to keep the brand out there until the next iteration?

[Roseangelo]

Supposedly the Rise float will be back for the Macy's Thanksgiving parade. Sure there's the Netflix thing coming, but you can't even find this show on tv, or the app now I guess, so why even have a float for a canceled show in a parade.

Wasn't the Rise float just the 2012 float decorated? Maybe it'll be redecorated again. Or, more likely, they'll just keep pretending Rise is the hot new thing.

[IndigoErth]

Nah, they were definitely two different floats.

https://i.imgur.com/DmyueRe.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/9zzn1Hj.jpg


Honestly, when I saw the TMNT mentioned I was curious if they might break out the 2012 again. :trazz: But I guess they probably don't have that float anymore.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I read that they're doing things a bit different with the parade this year due to Covid. I'm guessing because Rise was still active this year that they decided to use them for one last time.

[sdp]

The show is still getting a movie early next year and the 2 seasons will be uploaded to Netflix so it's still relevant. Who knows maybe they can sell some of the Rise overstock.

[Autbot_Benz]

I read that they're doing things a bit different with the parade this year due to Covid. I'm guessing because Rise was still active this year that they decided to use them for one last time.

Rise was the turtle float used this year. I gave them the finger when they showed up on my tv. :lol:

[sdp]

I'm certain that the full series will be added on Netflix a few weeks or when the movie comes out. Creators and others will start the dumb #saveRise hashtag and yes if people watch it Netflix could very well save Rise of the TMNT. They've done it before, but don't bet on it happening since most of the time it nothing comes of it. Many shows are sometimes dumped on Netflix to try to "save" them to no avail, aka Glitch Techs also by Nickelodeon
And from what I know the first week that the show is online is the most important for people to "watch" it from what I've read

[NinjaPug]

I'm certain that the full series will be added on Netflix a few weeks or when the movie comes out. Creators and others will start the dumb #saveRise hashtag and yes if people watch it Netflix could very well save Rise of the TMNT. They've done it before, but don't bet on it happening since most of the time it nothing comes of it. Many shows are sometimes dumped on Netflix to try to "save" them to no avail, aka Glitch Techs also by Nickelodeon
And from what I know the first week that the show is online is the most important for people to "watch" it from what I've read

Rise isn’t for me but I hope it’s successful enough on Netflix that it not only gets more Rise eps but that Netflix decides to order another series aimed at an older crowd (I think they are doing that with the two versions of He-Man they’re developing).

I don’t think it is possible for viewing statistics to be favorable enough that Netflix wants to have more new TMNT content but not more episodes of Rise.

I hate that the TMNT experiment on Netflix is reliant on Rise.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, I wish they'd just let Netflix develop their own series. In the last few years or so it seems to be people who don't own the TMNT who seem to be more eager to do something decent with them.

If Netflix ends up getting new eps of Rise, then more power to them, so long as we aren't stuck not being able to move on to another better show. Netflix would have probably been a better home for it to begin with as it would have cut out the long waits between eps that wasn't helping. (2012 may have had those long waits too sometimes, but in its case the eps it came back with generally felt worth the wait; Rise, not so much.)

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Let's be honest, Netflix isn't going to save this show. And hoping for it's success won't guarantee a Netflix TMNT series. The toy sales also did poorly which was another factor for why the show discontinued. Nick will just move on to the next series whenever that may be.

[Leo656]

My favorite part of the whole ordeal was the constant chorus of, "It's for kids anyway! If you're an adult you don't even have any right to an opinion... unless you like it, in which case you can have as much opinion as you want. Otherwise you're just an old crab! IT'S FOR KIDS!"

...........And then "the kids" didn't buy the toys OR watch the show. :lol: That was awesome.

[CyberCubed]

I'm watching through the show right now just to see every episode, I originally watched the first 12ish eps and then stopped due to the long hiatus of new eps and never bothered to get back into it. So now that the show is over I'm going through it, and honestly there's way too many silly/ridiculous eps to take this seriously.

The 2012 show mixed humor with action and dark concepts that it never felt overly silly, but this show does the opposite thing. I always dislike the "strange movements" where the Turtles do these weird poses meant to be funny either when they're walking, cheering, or their eyes bug out. Also the early eps are really aimless, there's no real plot after the first episode and it's just random episodes meeting random mutants.

I also really dislike Splinter and April here, they were a complete misfire. And again it feels too "loud" where even when characters are talking normally it sounds like they're shouting their lines.

One good thing I can say about the show is the animation looks really good during some fight scenes, you can tell how well animated and smooth the action looks...I just wish it had better Turtle designs and was for a better show.

[superstaff]

Why would they apologize to a demographic not even remotely close to what they intended for the show? This was for 5 year-olds. If the 50 or so TMNT fans in their 30s or 40s want to tune in, they're not going to turn them away but they're also not going to listen to them.

Heh. The 5 year olds didn't seem to like this one much either.

[CyberCubed]

Heh. The 5 year olds didn't seem to like this one much either.

I think it's mainly because it aired at such weird times and then half the eps debuted on their website first or on Nicktoons that no kid could even keep up with the series.

[superstaff]

I think it's mainly because it aired at such weird times and then half the eps debuted on their website first or on Nicktoons that no kid could even keep up with the series.

When I was a kid, I was able to keep up with shows that the networks would bounce around their schedule. But then again, I was a weird kid.

[IndigoErth]

When you're a show that gets exiled to Nicktoons only that's considered a bad sign. When you can't even be found on Nicktoons anymore, but your predecessor is... *tisk* Yeah... (edit: And that predecessor has already been over for 3 years.)

[LeotheLateBloomer]

When you're a show that gets exiled to Nicktoons only that's considered a bad sign. When you can't even be found on Nicktoons anymore, but your predecessor is... *tisk* Yeah... (edit: And that predecessor has already been over for 3 years.)

I didn't know Nicktoons is still airing the 2012 show and took off Rise after both shows ended. I have a feeling Nick will want their audiences to remember 2012 (I mean they still use those turtles in the Nicktoons Racing games) but forget about Rise.

Though speaking of Rise, when do you think we'll get a trailer or release date of the movie? Is that still happening?

[CyberCubed]

The movie is coming out early next year. They were already in production of it during Season 2 so it has to be done by now.

[IndigoErth]

I didn't know Nicktoons is still airing the 2012 show and took off Rise after both shows ended.
Yeah, 2012 had several eps on yesterday morning. Not bad for a show over for that long and isn't the Sponge. IF Rise is ever on at all, it must be at an odd time, though I have a feeling it's just gone.

[sdp]

Just like with season 2, i hope they were aware of the show being cancelled while working in the movie so they could go all out knowing it was the last hooray

[CyberCubed]

The finale wrapped up all the shows plots really well. The thing I can see the movie doing is possibly introducing Krang or the Utroms, because there's no real big villain for them to face anymore. They can't just make a movie about the Turtles fighting the random generic mutants of the show.

There was a vague hint of an Utrom like creature in the finale, so if that's the direction they go in for the movie, it would be great.

[superstaff]

Yeah, 2012 had several eps on yesterday morning. Not bad for a show over for that long and isn't the Sponge. IF Rise is ever on at all, it must be at an odd time, though I have a feeling it's just gone.

I think they show episodes of the 2012 series every morning at 10am, and have mini marathons on weekends.

Rise Of episodes seem to only air for an hour on Saturday evenings.

[CyberCubed]

Makes me wonder instead of Nick making a third TMNT cartoon anytime soon, they'll just revisit either 2012 or Rise with a set of movies or something. I guess we'll see if the Rise movie does well on netflix, if it does, we might see more of stuff along those lines.

I really don't expect another TMNT cartoon anytime soon, as I think Nick will take a break for awhile, but having movies is pretty possible.

[sdp]

If Rise is somehow popular in Netflix we could get more, but I see that as not very likely. I think it could be possible for 2012 to get a "special" to revive interest in the brand with the cartoon that people actually cared for since they already have the 3D models and that way they don't commit to anything.

If neither of those scenarios happen which neither has a high chance of happening then we'll be in a hiatus for a few years which I'm also fine with.

[Slash-Dash]

as far as I know, rise hasn't been officially cancelled.

[IndigoErth]

Though never being "officially" canceled via direct wording isn't too uncommon these days, unfortunately, but the posts made by those who worked on this show seemed like a pretty strong indication after it ended early, and if anyone knows the truth, it's them.

A binge watch show on Netflix might have been a better option to begin with, and I mean, things on a rare occasion can return -- it worked for Futurama? -- but I wouldn't hold my breath on it.

[Autbot_Benz]

as far as I know, rise hasn't been officially cancelled.

it was by the people who worked on the show many came forth and said it was done.

[Coola Yagami]

Makes me wonder instead of Nick making a third TMNT cartoon anytime soon, they'll just revisit either 2012 or Rise with a set of movies or something.

Doubtful. The most we'll see of Nick 2012 is if they either adapt the other Batman crossover based on the animated series, or there's another Turtles Forever crossover with the 2012 and whatever future TMNT incarnation there is.

I mean the OT TMNT are still the most popular and other than cameos and crossovers, they haven't come back with a brand new show or anything, so pretty doubtful 2012 TMNT will do the same.

[CyberCubed]

I mean Nick made their own series, it would make more sense than to make an original cartoon movie. Likewise the 2012 series will always be remembered as the "first" Nick TMNT cartoon, so if they make 3-4 cartoons later, the 2012 one will likely remain the most iconic of all the "modern" TMNT cartoons since the Nick buyout.

[aprilbound]

The animation in this show was absolutely dire, why can't they draw realistic humans anymore?

[Diorm]

The animation in this show was absolutely dire, why can't they draw realistic humans anymore?

You mean the artstyle.
The animation was one of the stronger point of the series.

[Powder]

The animation in this show was absolutely dire, why can't they draw realistic humans anymore?

Going by your username I'm going to guess you're just mad you didn't get proper fetish material.

[The Fifth Turtle]

So, I haven’t been following Rise and this may be posted somewhere else but...how many seasons and episodes did this show conclude at? I’d like to try and watch them all. Thank you for your help!

[CyberCubed]

So, I haven’t been following Rise and this may be posted somewhere else but...how many seasons and episodes did this show conclude at? I’d like to try and watch them all. Thank you for your help!

It has 2 seasons total.

I used this guide for the episode list since most eps are only 11 minutes and have two different episodes in each 22 minute episode:

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/List_of_Rise_of_the_Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles_e pisodes

There's also a movie coming out next year that will take place after the series ended.

[Ioz]

Bad ratings and bad toy sales, which this show seemed to have both of, doomed it. It just didn't capture the imagination of both kids and old fans like the previous ones. They made too drastic of changes.

[Zulithe]

While I'm way happier with how 2012 turned out than Rise, RotTMNT will still make for an interesting bullet point in TMNT history. Mostly for how fun the action sequences were to watch. That's certainly an area where future TMNT content could learn from. Maybe how wacky/zany it was at times won't fit with every imagining of the franchise, but the pure kinetic energy of it was really entertaining. They are teenagers, so of course they are going to inject a lot of style and personality into their combat. I think that was one of the strongest aspects of the show. Not much else resonated with me.

I'm just ready to move on to what is next. They'd do well to learn from the shortcomings of Rise and how they can appeal to more fans of the franchise. You could look at Star Wars or other franchises which, even when making shows aimed at kids, know that adult fans will be watching and make sure it's got something for them as well.

[DragonSoul]

I enjoyed RotTMNT because of its fresh, semi-accurate take on the characters. Raphael was my favorite, the whole snapper turtle look is very fitting to his character as a whole and his fits of rage actually made him closer to his original Mirage version. However, I am not blind to RotTMNT's shortcomings and fair criticism. I think there is one major criticism that isn't touched on yet which is the critical reviews that said RotTMNT teaches kids to be immoral. So how can a show marketed towards children survive a criticism that makes it detrimental to the mental development of children? not so much which is why I think in combination with all other criticisms that the critical reviews that complained about the show being immoral is the final nail in the coffin.

As for the criticism that says RotTMNT teaches children to be immoral there are a few scenes provided as evidence. The first episode was used to showcase that the turtles are immoral. When the turtles bypassed the criminal activity seen at a party to instead have fun at a rooftop pool it created a moral issue. In which, the controversial scene teaches children to be immature with no responsibility to do what is right. I can't really remember the critic's other examples right now. Yet it seems like the show's early, poor writing and overlooked immoral implications may have played a role in a pitch that ended the show.

[IndigoErth]

The first episode was used to showcase that the turtles are immoral. When the turtles bypassed the criminal activity seen at a party to instead have fun at a rooftop pool it created a moral issue. In which, the controversial scene teaches children to be immature with no responsibility to do what is right.
Well, while the Turtles are just kids, esp in this one, and not really their job to stop crime, let alone notice what covert things the boring adult humans are doing, there are certainly other moments that are better examples of immoral behavior if anyone really wanted to point that out as criticism of the show. Particularly, it was disappointing that the writing didn't find a creative way to have them gain/earn those new weapons. Nope, they just ended up in a strange place, saw shiny weapons...and stole them.

[Klunk1234]

Happy New Yeat! Is Rise cancelled? If it is, well... good riddance. That show was so horrible. I hope the Turtles have another series that is good like the 2k3 or 2012.

[shredder orokusaki]

I agree with Klunk the next series will be like 2003 or 2012 to be succesful. At least there is the IDW series but it is not the same as it is a comic and not a tv series.

[DragonSoul]

Well, while the Turtles are just kids, esp in this one, and not really their job to stop crime, let alone notice what covert things the boring adult humans are doing, there are certainly other moments that are better examples of immoral behavior if anyone really wanted to point that out as criticism of the show. Particularly, it was disappointing that the writing didn't find a creative way to have them gain/earn those new weapons. Nope, they just ended up in a strange place, saw shiny weapons...and stole them.

To be honest, I don't remember much from that scathing review of RotTMNT nor can I find it again. All I know is the first episodes were used in their complaint of the show. The part were the turtles steal their weapons may have been used as well but I am not sure on that. I think the main point is that RotTMNT had a very bad initial impression which may have contributed to its cancellation.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

To be honest, I don't remember much from that scathing review of RotTMNT nor can I find it again. All I know is the first episodes were used in their complaint of the show. The part were the turtles steal their weapons may have been used as well but I am not sure on that. I think the main point is that RotTMNT had a very bad initial impression which may have contributed to its cancellation.

That may be true but from what I've watched, the show doesn't get any better for me. I know it was mainly aimed for a younger audience but it sort of speaks volumes when it doesn't catch on with it's intended audience. I just found it overall uninteresting.

[DragonSoul]

That may be true but from what I've watched, the show doesn't get any better for me. I know it was mainly aimed for a younger audience but it sort of speaks volumes when it doesn't catch on with it's intended audience. I just found it overall uninteresting.

I think that is a fair criticism too. I feel like the majority of story plots lack depth besides a few interesting ones. The lack of depth in story plots maybe due to their targeted demographic which is children. Hopefully, visionaries of the next reboot keep in mind the flaws of RotTMNT but also take note of what the show got right.

[Walkabout]

I finally saw this show last week, and have seen 2 episodes now.

I expected to HATE it, but I didn't end up being offended by it at all.

It is super fast paced though...manic.
I was watching casually as I ate dinner and had real hard time following what was going on!

[Mad Dog McMutt]

I thought rise was a terrible show. It wasn't interesting in the slightest. I may recieve a lot of hate, but I am glad they cancelled that abomination.

[Theonlywessmith]

I finally saw this show last week, and have seen 2 episodes now.

I expected to HATE it, but I didn't end up being offended by it at all.

It is super fast paced though...manic.
I was watching casually as I ate dinner and had real hard time following what was going on!

It takes some time to really build up the story. At the beginning most of the episodes are filler. Once they start the Shredder storyline the show gets surprisingly good. I wish it started out that way and not as many people would hate. The problem is it takes like 30 episodes to become good. The action on it is a work of art too with some impressive animation.

[sdp]

Paramount+ will revive the show for another season.

[superstaff]

Paramount+ will revive the show for another season.

Source on that..?

[neatoman]

Source on that..?

There isn't any, he's just speculating because streaming services need new content. We're getting that movie and that's it, it's seriously doubtful we're getting another season of this show. If we're getting new TMNT on Paramount+, it'll probably just be a total reboot unrelated to anything older.

[D-ray]

I wonder if it's due to the toys not selling. I've seen successful shows get canned due to toys not selling, and even though this show is still airing it's final episodes, I don't even see the toys anymore.
I don't get why they keep gambling with this kind of economical moves.
The turtles community changed, ALOT, but they keep doing things for kids, un-interested ones.

I still hope that Nick and Viacom give up the deed of the TMNT to a
wiser company.
I know that "kids" make you sell more stuff, because they have more free time, they are
willing to waste hundreds of dollars on playmates, but now is like trying to sell a plastic hammer to an ironmongery.

[ZariusTwo]

Paramount+ will revive the show for another season.

I don't doubt Paramount+ will stream an exclusive TMNT series, but I doubt it'll be for Rise

Given the reactions towards the animated intro for Shredder's Revenge, don't be too shocked if the Paramount+ series ends up being a revival of the 80s cartoon down the line.

[sdp]

TMNT The Next Chapter aka the 87 continuation exclusive to Paramount+.

[Galactus]

I don't doubt Paramount+ will stream an exclusive TMNT series, but I doubt it'll be for Rise

Given the reactions towards the animated intro for Shredder's Revenge, don't be too shocked if the Paramount+ series ends up being a revival of the 80s cartoon down the line.

It wouldn't suprise me but it would be sod's law that Paramount would pay attention to the positive reaction to the intro to Shredder's revenge and not the positive reaction Batman v TMNT (either comic or movie) or the positive reaction to The Last Ronin.

[Leo656]

Confirmation bias. They want to believe in their whole "FW is what people want, that's the only thing that sells" narrative. They'll dismiss anything that goes against that as a "fluke" or an outlier. The reaction to the video game, though... "See? This is what we've been saying all along, THIS is what sells! Nothing else! Just this!"

[neatoman]

Plus the fact that we have no idea if the game actually will sell. Plenty of games get hyped up before release but nobody seems to care once it's actually out. It's also possible that it turns out to be a terrible game in general.

Another thing is that the game is still in development and thus subject to change, so we also don't know how close the final product will be to the Fred Wolf cartoon, what we've seen so far are just snippets. The old Konami games may generally have stuck close to the Fred Wolf cartoon, but they sure as hell weren't against using Karai, Tokka, Rahzar, Tatsu, Super Shredder, Hothead, Armaggon, War or the Archie design for Slash. Quite often they even just made up new characters

We honestly don't know, granted it still seems likely it will stick to the Fred Wolf thing and sell decently, we just don't know for sure. For all we actually know however, this game could have Baron Draxum show up out of nowhere to team up with Eric Sacks and the Garbageman.

[CyberCubed]

Plus the fact that we have no idea if the game actually will sell. P.

It's definitely going to sell well for what it is, likely an inexpensive indie type game. If it's priced at $19.99 which most expect it to, it'll sell like hotcakes.

[Warhorse]

Okay, reason I am here is because I follow some TMNT stuff on other social media like Facebook, and it seems like whoever is running the official pages on FB, Twitter, etc, seem to be really shoving Rise down our throats. Seems like somebody with power wants the series to come back and is trying to get people on board, and it's just not clicking. The show itself seems like the CEO's at the top are having a power struggle and Rise was the result of this power.

It's also kinda sad that black April will always be remembered for this incarnation alone, I'm pretty sure April will be white again in the next cartoon. They'll probably always associate black April with "Rise" and assume it didn't work.

Back to the basics.
This leads me to my theory that there is a power struggle at the top. Seems one side wants to dab into the virtual signaling going on at the moment (nothing wrong with that) but the other side decides to make sure that the incarnation is as obnoxious as possible that way they can turn around and be like "see, Black April will never sell", even though more than likely if she was portrayed more like the girl in Jurassic Park 2 or Storm, she would have been more accepted. Just saying, Nick Fury in Avengers was originally White, but nobody cared when Samuel L Jackson played him because he was just a good character. Now if he acted like Chris Tucker did in the Fifth Element, it might not have gone over so well.

Why would they try and create content for a demographic that simply doesn't care about the property? That's my question.

Can't wait for the hot new Dick Tracy reboot aimed at 5-year olds. Kids love 1930s-era gangster shenanigans starring a guy in a canary-colored fedora who's so square Ronald Reagan would tell him to lighten the f*ck up. That'd play huge with the Paw Patrol set, I'm tellin' ya. Sure, traditionally the mean average age of your typical hardcore Dick Tracy fan is about friggin' 60, but hey... why not roll the dice, right?

I really feel like it's ignorant for any brand to ignore and/or alienate its existing base in their attempts to reach or create a new one. Why push people away who WANT to give you their money? They already care! It makes no sense.

Been asking myself the same question. I was about 10 myself when I got into TMNT, and it did seem like the shows aimed towards the teens (10-13) seem to have the biggest impact in entertainment. Too bad the CEO's are just so blinded by their insistence with this property to aim at 5 year olds when everything popular like Harry Potter, LOTR, MCU and DCU are aimed at the teenage crowd. Even the original TMNT comics was aimed at the teenage crowd. Time to let the show evolve, naturally.

Viacom would honestly and truly prefer it if anyone over the age of 10 just stopped paying attention to TMNT forever. They've come dangerously close to saying so out loud multiple times.

The fact that there even ARE older fans ruins their entire narrative of TMNT being a "children's property". As does the fact that when presented with TMNT in any incarnation, most kids nowadays just ignore it altogether OR give up on it very fast.

Our existence is an "inconvenient truth" that upsets what their preconceived notions were as to what TMNT "should" be when they bought it. Nick has never had to try and please anyone older than age 10-12 with any of their shows/products, so they have no idea how to do it and would honestly rather not have to even try.

They'll realize this strategic error one day, but it might be way too late by then.

Sadly, you are probably right. We had the first live action movie and parts of 2k3 that looked like it was going in the right direction, but these CEO's always cave into the Karens and soccer moms.

Couldnt agree more. We are going back to the 1970s era where animated cartoons on TV were seen as being for 4-7 year olds. The Batman: Animated Series revolution that suddenly made cartoons aimed at ALL AGES in thee 90's has disappeared. THANKFULLY, with Laird in charge, WE GOT a TMNT show that older TMNT fans can appreciate. But... in this climate and perhaps in the near future, 2012 and Rise is going to be as good as it gets.

Yep. You would think they see the popularity of Harry Potter, MCU and DCU, even the Transormers movies and realize they are going about this all wrong.

Supposedly the Rise float will be back for the Macy's Thanksgiving parade. Sure there's the Netflix thing coming, but you can't even find this show on tv, or the app now I guess, so why even have a float for a canceled show in a parade.

Somebody behind the scenes is trying to keep this show going. Been seeing it on FB, where the official TMNT page is literally forcing this show down our throats.

Let's be honest, Netflix isn't going to save this show. And hoping for it's success won't guarantee a Netflix TMNT series. The toy sales also did poorly which was another factor for why the show discontinued. Nick will just move on to the next series whenever that may be.

I can only hope, but in this climate, it seems like the powers that be want to cater to the small demographics, not the big ones.



as far as I know, rise hasn't been officially cancelled.

How many times are you going to ask this question? Do you work on the show or something? You sound desperate and just can't handle the fact that the show was a miss, not a hit.

There isn't any, he's just speculating because streaming services need new content. We're getting that movie and that's it, it's seriously doubtful we're getting another season of this show. If we're getting new TMNT on Paramount+, it'll probably just be a total reboot unrelated to anything older.

Agreed

I don't get why they keep gambling with this kind of economical moves.
The turtles community changed, ALOT, but they keep doing things for kids, un-interested ones.

I still hope that Nick and Viacom give up the deed of the TMNT to a
wiser company.
I know that "kids" make you sell more stuff, because they have more free time, they are
willing to waste hundreds of dollars on playmates, but now is like trying to sell a plastic hammer to an ironmongery.

Good question. The writing is on the wall where the money is with a series like this. It's in the teens and young adult. Sadly, you have CEO's that have mush for brains and refuse to open their minds.

Confirmation bias. They want to believe in their whole "FW is what people want, that's the only thing that sells" narrative. They'll dismiss anything that goes against that as a "fluke" or an outlier. The reaction to the video game, though... "See? This is what we've been saying all along, THIS is what sells! Nothing else! Just this!"

Yep.

[Powder]

Seems like somebody with power wants the series to come back and is trying to get people on board, and it's just not clicking.

Gee, it's almost like a big company is trying to promote their product, a product which has a movie coming out in a few months. How about that!

[IndigoErth]

Somebody behind the scenes is trying to keep this show going. Been seeing it on FB, where the official TMNT page is literally forcing this show down our throats.
That's strange. I could kind of understand if they were specifically trying to promote the Netflix movie, as mentioned by Powder, but to go clinging in general to an iteration that bombed? Esp when they already had a previous series that was quite successful and with that under their belt could theoretically create another show later that hits its targets right. Why choose this particular hill to die on, Nick. Is someone still trying to make back what they invested into it?


Surely it's close enough to release date that they could throw together a trailer and focus on promoting the movie itself, not just obnoxiously pushing an otherwise dead series. And did they ever even put the rest of the series on DVD/Blu-ray for the fans that want it? That would at least have given them a valid excuse for a bit. But if it's not successful enough to at least give its fans those disc sets, come on... time to move on.

Hopefully, once that CGI theater movie has something to show for it they'll have some new material. In the meantime I guess I'm not missing anything by not following those sources. :ohwell:

[Powder]

Season 1 was just put on Paramount+

[Leo656]

The TMNT Facebook Page is a dumpster fire even by FB standards.

[dcat]

As an old school TMNT fan I have to say I really loved Rise. The comedy, the personality, the style; Its all there! Saved all the episodes to my DVR which is lucky since Nickelodeon doesn't seem to air them anymore.