Creed 3 Michael B Jordan is directing

[Autbot_Benz]

https://collider.com/creed-3-michael-b-jordan-director/?amp&utm_medium=twitter&utm_medium=twitter&utm_source=twitter&utm_source=twitter

Well, it looks like Creed 3 has secured its director: Michael B. Jordan. The actor and producer has been with the franchise from the beginning, so it makes sense that he would helm the next installment. Jordan initially re-teamed with Fruitvale Station director Ryan Coogler for 2015’s Creed, later reprising his role as boxer Adonis Johnson in 2018’s Creed II.

[Leo656]

Interesting. I really, really liked the first one. Haven't seen the second one yet but I heard it's also really good. I'm aware there were some behind-the-scenes issues, though. This isn't altogether surprising but it's definitely an interesting turn.

[Autbot_Benz]

Interesting. I really, really liked the first one. Haven't seen the second one yet but I heard it's also really good. I'm aware there were some behind-the-scenes issues, though. This isn't altogether surprising but it's definitely an interesting turn.

Creed 2 is good just Ryan Coogler didn't direct it and I think part of the magic is missing because he didn't direct the follow up.

also Casting Phylicia Rashad aka Claire Huxtable as Mary Ann Creed was perfect casting in the sequel

[sdp]

I want the new Rocky just to have a franchise go two different directions at once.

[Andrew NDB]

I remember reading Stallone begging Jordan not to do this (direct), that it would take over his whole life for a year. *shrug* Guess he didn't listen.

[CyberCubed]

Will Rocky die in this one? Maybe it's time he bows out.

[Andrew NDB]

Will Rocky die in this one? Maybe it's time he bows out.

Stallone won't have anything to do with this one. They can't even kill him off-screen since Stallone is threatening to do Rocky 7.

[Andrew NDB]

You know? Maybe I'm way off base here. But as time goes on I'm beginning to suspect the whole "Stallone is talking big about doing Rocky 7 and the studio really wants to do it and all he has to say is 'yes'" is largely just bargaining chips to get a bigger piece of the pie with "Creed 3." Both creatively and monetarily.

[Andrew NDB]

Thanksgiving, 2022 locked in.

https://deadline.com/2021/03/michael-b-jordan-director-creed-3-film-mgm-1234711695/

[XERO]

Creed 2 is good just Ryan Coogler didn't direct it and I think part of the magic is missing because he didn't direct the follow up.

You can thank Black Panther for that. No complaints in my part.

[Andrew NDB]

Stallone is sticking to his guns about not doing Creed 3.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/stallone-wont-return-for-third-creed/

[sdp]

Maybe after Creed 3 and Rocky 7 we can get Rocky vs Creed

[Leo656]

"...Script from the writer of 'Space Jam: A New Legacy'..."

:teek::teek::teek::lol::lol::lol:

Oh, Jesus.

[Andrew NDB]

So with Stallone pretty definitively out of Creed 3, that means Creed is going to get a new trainer. Who do you guys reckon they'll tap for it?

My money is on Clubber Lang. Barring that, perhaps Drago himself.

[MikeandRaph87]

What is the character's reasoning for not being present? I watched both Creed films on delay because of Stallone's presence. Drago or Lang don't do it for me so if Stallone throws in the towel so do I.

[Autbot_Benz]

What is the character's reasoning for not being present?

Creed 2 ended Rocky's Story. He made amends with his son and wants to spend time with his grandson so he probably moved closer to spend time with them.

[Andrew NDB]

Creed 2 ended Rocky's Story. He made amends with his son and wants to spend time with his grandson so he probably moved closer to spend time with them.

For now. Stallone was wanting to make his "Rocky trains an illegal immigrant" Rocky 7 a while back. That kind of means Stallone still sees Rocky as potentially being active.

[Autbot_Benz]

For now. Stallone was wanting to make his "Rocky trains an illegal immigrant" Rocky 7 a while back. That kind of means Stallone still sees Rocky as potentially being active.

now he wants to do a Rocky Prequel series for streaming

"I started out this morning by writing a treatment for a Rocky prequel For streaming. Ideally 10 episodes for a few seasons to really get to the heart of the Characters in there [sic] younger years." He also included pictures of two handwritten pages titled “Treatment for Rocky prequel series.”

“Imagine a time machine that will simply transport us back to the origins of Rocky,” Stallone wrote in surprisingly neat cursive, "a cinematic world brimming with characters that have been beloved by people around the world for nearly five decades!"

https://collider.com/sylvester-stallone-rocky-prequel-series-pitch/

[Andrew NDB]

now he wants to do a Rocky Prequel series for streaming



https://collider.com/sylvester-stallone-rocky-prequel-series-pitch/

Yeah, I saw that. I'd way rather see Young Rambo: The Nam Years. I don't know that we need to see Young Rocky just being a well-intentioned loser pre-Rocky, though from the way Stallone is talking it sounds like he wants to Forrest Gump him into a bunch of historical points... which sounds really terrible.

[Autbot_Benz]

Yeah, I saw that. I'd way rather see Young Rambo: The Nam Years. I don't know that we need to see Young Rocky just being a well-intentioned loser pre-Rocky, though from the way Stallone is talking it sounds like he wants to Forrest Gump him into a bunch of historical points... which sounds really terrible.

ya id prefer young rambo too that would be cool

[Andrew NDB]

Michael B. Jordan addresses Stallone not being in Creed 3:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/jordan-talks-stallones-creed-iii-absence/

[Andrew NDB]

So Creed is just fighting some guy in this:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/jonathan-majors-to-fight-in-creed-iii/

I like that he's getting an actor and not a boxer for the part... but wake me up when "Mr. T joins Creed 3" is making headlines.

[Andrew NDB]

It will be more "intimate."

https://screenrant.com/creed-3-movie-story-details-jonathan-majors-response/

Also, I forgot the villain was Jonathan Majors, the guy who is Kang the Conqueror at the end of Loki and will be in Ant-Man 2.

I bet you this guy is either one of Apollo's legitimate sons or there is a Lang connection. But probably the former.

[Andrew NDB]

Pushed back 4 months into 2023 now:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/creed-iii-delayed-nearly-four-months/

[Autbot_Benz]

That sucks I was looking forward to it. Next year it is.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Michael B. Jordan addresses Stallone not being in Creed 3:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/jordan-talks-stallones-creed-iii-absence/

No Stallone, no deal.
:tthumbsd:

[Andrew NDB]

No Stallone, no deal.
:tthumbsd:

I SUSPECT he'll have a surprise cameo in it. Nothing substantial. Like maybe Rocky leaving him high and dry in the trainer department is a thread in the movie (they can't not acknowledge it), but there he is in the crowd in the final ring bout at a critical moment, making eye contact with Creed.

Kind of wondering what they'll do in the musical department. If Rocky is gone, does that mean the wonderful musical cues are, too?

[Cowabung-Gal]

I SUSPECT he'll have a surprise cameo in it. Nothing substantial. Like maybe Rocky leaving him high and dry in the trainer department is a thread in the movie (they can't not acknowledge it), but there he is in the crowd in the final ring bout at a critical moment, making eye contact with Creed.

Maybe they’ll pull a “Terminator Dark Fate” and have him appear for like a minute…before Clubber Lang suddenly appears and guns him down.

[Andrew NDB]

Maybe they’ll pull a “Terminator Dark Fate” and have him appear for like a minute…before Clubber Lang suddenly appears and guns him down.

You're joking, but Stallone would never sign onto anything like that. And no way would B. Jordan take that liberty with like a lookalike, or be allowed to.

Though maybe this is me being weird but I kind of do want to see Rocky's death.

[Cowabung-Gal]

You're joking, but Sallone would never sign onto anything like that. And no way would B. Jordan take that liberty with like a lookalike, or be allowed to.

Though maybe this is me being weird but I kind of do want to see Rocky's death.

Yeah, I was obviously joking, but still, why act so surprised? We didn’t expect Mark Hamill to sell Luke Skywalker out and let his character be completely torn down by Kathleen Kennedy. But he did, despite knowing how much Luke meant to us.

We almost got a Rocky death, actually, during the production of Rocky V, but the script was rewritten and Rocky got spared because he was too popular to be killed off.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, I was obviously joking, but still, why act so surprised? We didn’t expect Mark Hamill to sell Luke Skywalker out and let his character be completely torn down by Kathleen Kennedy. But he did, despite knowing how much Luke meant to us.

We almost got a Rocky death, actually, during the production of Rocky V, but the script was rewritten and Rocky got spared because he was too popular to be killed off.

And Rambo 1, etc. The guy doesn't like to die.

Hamill? From what I've read it seemed like before anything went into motion on episodes VII-IX, Hamill, Fisher and Ford all had to sign on, script(s) unseen. It was like a big commitment. So not much Hamill could do but covertly complain about it on Twitter later on. While not so covertly doing the same about Trump and half the country, yadda yadda.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Hamill? From what I've read it seemed like before anything went into motion on episodes VII-IX, Hamill, Fisher and Ford all had to sign on, script(s) unseen. It was like a big commitment. So not much Hamill could do but covertly complain about it on Twitter later on. While not so covertly doing the same about Trump and half the country, yadda yadda.

It’s not like they held a gun to his head and forced him to read the script. When he realized what they had in plan for Luke, he could’ve just walked off the set, contract or no contract. He’s rich. He can obviously afford a legal battle. But he instead chose to let them crucify Luke because he didn’t care enough about the character or the fandom to go through all the trouble. “Oh, there was nothing I could do, I hate it as much as you all do, it’s all Disney’s fault.” I don’t care what he tweets. He’s a coward.

[Andrew NDB]

It’s not like they held a gun to his head and forced him to read the script. When he realized what they had in plan for Luke, he could’ve just walked off the set, contract or no contract. He’s rich. He can obviously afford a legal battle. But he instead chose to let them crucify Luke because he didn’t care enough about the character or the fandom to go through all the trouble. “Oh, there was nothing I could do, I hate it as much as you all do, it’s all Disney’s fault.” I don’t care what he tweets. He’s a coward.

Eugh. I'm of two minds on it. And I wish I didn't see a lot of his tweets about this or that to color my opinion on him as a human being (and I do divorce the actor from the performance). I'm not saying you're wrong but I don't know that he could do a whole lot either way about his role in the sequel trilogy beyond sitting on his hands and putting up more of a fight. But from most accounts it sounds like he did, at least a bit. Which is more than anyone else did.

[MikeandRaph87]

No Stallone, no deal.
:tthumbsd:

Exact same for me!

[Andrew NDB]

https://actionewz.com/movies/creed-iii-posters-give-us-a-first-look-at-jonathan-majors-mysterious-a251?fbclid=IwAR3xGvqQM_rlUTMOhQGdDDzdStNxd61LcQ9C TKtTlcC11GwwT7dmDAPo7W4#gs.fwwwg2

Yeah, Adonis is going to fight a "real" Creed in this.

[Autbot_Benz]

AHmCH7iB_IM

[Andrew NDB]

Eh. Well, I guess the Creed movies could have their own Rocky V. That's a choice.

[oldmanwinters]

Eh. Well, I guess the Creed movies could have their own Rocky V. That's a choice.

Man, how old would an "older brother" have to be to fit into the (admittedly scattered-brained) Rocky timeline? I think Adonis was already supposed to be over 30 when he started his professional fight career.

[Andrew NDB]

And waittaminute... oh, no. Flashbacks to when they were young men getting harassed by the police. You can imagine where this is going.

Man, how old would an "older brother" have to be to fit into the (admittedly scattered-brained) Rocky timeline? I think Adonis was already supposed to be over 30 when he started his professional fight career.

Like 6-10 years older? We see Apollo's kids at his house in, what was it, Rocky 3? And they looked about 8ish? And Adonis' mom was pregnant with him during the Drago fight in 4.

[oldmanwinters]

I wouldn't think most +40-year-old ex-cons have a chance to START a professional boxing career, let alone earning a title-shot.

[Leo656]

I stopped trying to apply logic to the Rocky timeline when Rocky's kid aged 7 years in a month between 4 and 5.

If I were Sly I would've added a cheeky bit of dialog to that scene like "'Eeeey who's dis big guy? I hardly recognized yuh!" as a giant wink to the whole deal, y'know?

[Andrew NDB]

And "Rocky Balboa" was actually set a good number of years before it came out. Because the character needed to be in his 50s, not 60s. But then by Creed it was in the full-on present.

I wouldn't think most +40-year-old ex-cons have a chance to START a professional boxing career, let alone earning a title-shot.

Yeah, well, clearly it's not another Creed in this. It's just a bestie from the mean streets where they had to fend off racist police.

[Leo656]

Alriiiiight, settle down. :trazz:

[oldmanwinters]

Speaking of Rocky V and the franchise time-line. It feels like the movie spans a little over a year, (maybe two) but how long would one expect a formerly amateur/semi-pro fighter (granted, with a high-profile manager) to work his way up to #1 contender and eventual heavy-weight champion? The montage (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IV39CwiB5V0) makes it look like he has at least 10 professional fights at high-profile venues and a newspaper headline in the middle of it mentions he has 16 victories. By some accounts on fansites, his pro record was 23-0-0, presumably all that came before he got into a pointless street brawl with Rocky.

I stopped trying to apply logic to the Rocky timeline when Rocky's kid aged 7 years in a month between 4 and 5.

If I were Sly I would've added a cheeky bit of dialog to that scene like "'Eeeey who's dis big guy? I hardly recognized yuh!" as a giant wink to the whole deal, y'know?

If Rocky V plays out over 4-5 years, it's actually more remarkable that Sage Stallone doesn't age up noticeably between beginning and end of the movie than it is that he's suddenly way older than he looked before Rocky went to Russia. It would seem like this would have been a decent opportunity to show two versions of Rocky Jr, one with a child actor closer to the appearance in Rocky IV, then Sage Stallone for the real meat of the film.

[Leo656]

Yeah, and most pro boxers at the "elite" level who contend for Championships only fight a couple of times a year, so... yeah, none of it makes any sense. Tommy Gunn's entire montage would be like 3 to 5 years of Real Time, minimum. They made it look like it was pro wrestling and he was going out every weekend knocking guys out and racking up wins. Doesn't work that way.

But I mean eh, Movies.

[Andrew NDB]

https://www.darkhorizons.com/rave-reviews-from-creed-iii-testing/

Huh, I didn't know that Viktor Drago would be back in this. That means Ivan might show up, too.

[Andrew NDB]

https://www.darkhorizons.com/creed-4-creed-spin-offs-in-the-works/

Creed 4 is a for sure thing, as well as Creed spinoffs (which may be the already leaked Drago spinoff). Also, the fights in Creed 3 have a strong anime influence? Eh...

[oldmanwinters]

https://www.darkhorizons.com/rave-reviews-from-creed-iii-testing/

Huh, I didn't know that Viktor Drago would be back in this. That means Ivan might show up, too.

I enjoyed playing Viktor's campaign in the Big Rumble Boxing: Creed Legends game. Glad to see some of the canon storyline expanded.

[Andrew NDB]

Final trailer:

xTaIZo8OJYE

[Andrew NDB]

Saw it. I'm going to give it a day before I really figure out how I feel about it. At the moment, it feels like I saw a well-crafted drama when I was also hoping for excitement. I wasn't excited, or really rooting for/against anybody in this.

[Andrew NDB]

The non-spoiler review I just posted on FB:

Saw "Creed III" this past Friday. I didn't want to post my thoughts right away as I wanted a day or so to let it sink into my brain first. I liked it but I didn't love it and I think it comes in last place for the Creed movies so far.

Pros:
* The movie kicks off the training wheels Creed 1 and 2 had in being so heavily tethered to the Rocky movies and relatively firmly becomes its own thing.
* For the first time since Rocky IV, we get a "bad guy" that's played by an actual actor, not a real boxer who has to kind of learn how to act real quick before shooting the movie. And it really helps.
* The boxing matches are filmed pretty refreshlingly. It feels new. Not clinical and ESPN-like and not overdone either. Dynamic. A lot of slow-mo hits.

Cons:
* The movie kicks off the training wheels Creed 1 and 2 had in being so heavily tethered to the Rocky movies and relatively firmly becomes its own thing.
* The training montages were a little weak.
* There isn't a lot of buildup to the fight(s). We're just kind of thrust into them.
* The musical score was a little weak. While I understand the idea is to tip-toe away from the Rocky musical score (though one song does make the cut near the end!) and do something new... I would hope they would replace it with something equally memorable. Now, the actual rap songs they chose here and there are perfect.
* Where do they go from here, exactly? A time skip and then he trains his daughter? Maybe, but that's not super appealing.
* (only halfway kidding on this one) C'mon, no Mr. T cameo? Clubber Lang absolutely could have been Damian's trainer and it didn't even need to be a big thing.

My biggest problem with the movie, I think, is that the "bad guy" Damian was made to be TOO sympathetic. When the final fight comes I found I wasn't really rooting for Creed to beat the guy all that much. I just sort of felt a general sense of, "Well, I guess let's just see what happens. *shrug*" And it all becomes sort of predictable from there. At no point in the movie was I really excited about what was going on and I've felt genuine excitement in every Rocky and Creed movie so far with the exception, maybe, of Rocky V.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

My biggest problem with the movie, I think, is that the "bad guy" Damian was made to be TOO sympathetic. When the final fight comes I found I wasn't really rooting for Creed to beat the guy all that much. I just sort of felt a general sense of, "Well, I guess let's just see what happens. *shrug*" And it all becomes sort of predictable from there.

The movie tries to make Damian someone you want to be put in his place but it just didn't work for me. Also...
Damian hiring some dude to assault Draco just so he can become champ was a weak setup.

[Andrew NDB]

The movie tries to make Damian someone you want to be put in his place but it just didn't work for me.

I think they did the reveal that as a kid, Adonis just ran off and let Damian take the rap for beating that guy and pulling the gun to defend him way too early. They should have even saved that for AFTER the end fight. Because as it stands, we're -- well, I am at least -- going into the final fight thinking, "Wow, Adonis ran off like a scared b**ch while the other guy did 18 years in prison for him and I'm supposed be rooting for Adonis?"

[ZariusTwo]

Creedverse in the works at amazon, movies and tv shows

https://deadline.com/2023/03/michael-b-jordan-creed-verse-film-tv-amazon-1235282120/

[Andrew NDB]

Creedverse in the works at amazon, movies and tv shows

https://deadline.com/2023/03/michael-b-jordan-creed-verse-film-tv-amazon-1235282120/

This is really going to piss of Stallone.

[oldmanwinters]

This is really going to piss of Stallone.

That day when Stallone found out his services were no longer required by the MGM/WB/Amazon conglomerate:
LXpuJZfr8Lk

[MikeandRaph87]

I just saw this whole Creedverse thing on Yahoo! Creed III is successful? Rocky Balboa isn't in it. Sly was not involved. I don't get it. :tconfuse:

[Andrew NDB]

Complete sidenote. Can you guys believe it has been EIGHT YEARS since Creed 1 came out? wtf, guys... how did that happen?

I just saw this whole Creedverse thing on Yahoo! Creed III is successful?

At the moment it is tracking above both Creed movies but it has not eclipsed them yet. We'll see in a couple of weeks.

[oldmanwinters]

Went to see it last night on the big XD screen for the Tuesday discount price last night in an almost empty theatre with recliners (my preferred way to enjoy these), and liked it, overall.

I agree with Andrew on these high points:


Pros:
* The movie kicks off the training wheels Creed 1 and 2 had in being so heavily tethered to the Rocky movies and relatively firmly becomes its own thing.
* For the first time since Rocky IV, we get a "bad guy" that's played by an actual actor, not a real boxer who has to kind of learn how to act real quick before shooting the movie. And it really helps.
* The boxing matches are filmed pretty refreshlingly. It feels new. Not clinical and ESPN-like and not overdone either. Dynamic. A lot of slow-mo hits.


One thing that was bizarre but much appreciated was the idea that a heavyweight championship match would take place in open-air Dodger Stadium. I'm sure a tone of CGI was used for the backdrops, but it is quite a spectacle. Seems like every real-life boxing match of consequence happens in the carefully monitored confines of Las Vegas, and the Rocky-verse films have really leaned into that trend since 2006. I'd LOVE for that type of venue to be more common in both art and life, but I can certainly understand a number of reasons against it... can you imagine if a fight like that was hyped up and then it rained on everything?

And I probably agree on all his *Cons too. But to elaborate:
As regards the Buildup, it seems there were two plot points would should have been Adonis' major motivating factors but just... kinda happened and didn't prove especially consequential:
(1) The "Massacre" of Felix Chavez and (2) death of Clair Huxtable, er... I mean, Mrs. Creed.
The movie went to great lengths to build up Chavez as a full character despite not being essential to the plot as anything more than a jobber to buildup Dame; they give Chavez's mother several lines of spoken dialogue and an entire scene to the Chavez family considering whether to take the title fight with Dame. He gets a wonderfully eccentric fight intro and we get a three-round fight that culminates in his death scene... except he doesn't officially die. Beyond that his off-camera condition is referenced and then we see him attending the Battle for Los Angeles, I guess to make everybody feel good that he recovered. But... why bother? I felt like the movie was going hard for Rocky IV symmetry but giving Adonis a reason to come "out of retirement" and "avenge" his friend. Only problem is, Chavez and Adonis (and Duke Jr.) have a primarily business relationship where friendship (if it exists) is only a footnote. When Adonis stares down Dame after that Chavez beating, you feel like he's more upset over the damage to his business brand than potentially losing a friend (Adonis isn't exactly cradling Chavez's body like Rocky did for Apollo).
And then Mrs. Creed dies (heavily foreshadowed earlier) and that's the big emotional moment for Adonis, but the funeral happens, and then... I think that's it for that plot point. They have the nice connection together that's supposed to forgive any resentment between them, but whether or not her death provides any additional challenge, baggage or motivation for Adonis and his title bout with Dame is a moot point, at best.

So the movie has an in-ring "death" followed by a funeral for a major franchise character, but neither seem essential to raising the steaks for this film's conclusion. Those are thematic elements that Rocky III & IV landed with way more impact.

As far as Dame as a "villain"... yeah, Majors is great in the role. From a real-life perspective, I imagine it would be quite a sensational sports story if an aged +40 ex-con (not to comment on the movie's fictional justice system, but how does the dude get 15-20 years of incarceration...

for pulling a gun on a street fight without firing it and then maybe or maybe not trying-and-failing to evade arrest, even if he does have some priors?) received and dominated a title shot with his 1st professional match--despite several illegal blows--and then went a brutal 12-rounds with a legendary post-retirement heavyweight champ in his 2nd fight.

But the BIGGER story would be the allegations that said +40 ex-con hired a hit-man on another major heavyweight in order to manipulate the fight promotor (his old buddy) into giving him the title shot. If Adonis has evidence that connects Dame and the hitman (didn't register in my mind at first because the hitman is so inconsequential and his face is barely seen on two occasions but apparently it's a big deal), that could be a media equivalent of Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan. Maybe you have the impending legal case against Dame (similar to the first movie's subplot with Conlan about to go to jail), but Creed decides to fight Dame anyway as a non-authorized exhibition grudge match.

I actually think that is a more interesting story than the movie we got with Creed III.

Additional thoughts:
*When I saw the PS2 game collection on teenaged Adonis' shelf (circa 2002 maybe?), it made me realize how odd it is that Adonis is almost surely still in high school when the events of Rocky Balboa take place. Makes me wonder whatever happened to Marie's teenaged son, Steps.
*Apollo Creed apparently owned (and had presumably attended) the 1974 Rumble in the Jungle match between Ali and Foreman. Not the first reference to the legendary fight in the franchise, but when exactly did Apollo Creed find the time to dominate the heavyweight division (he "retired more men than Social Security") up through January 1st, 1976? Man... this alternative boxing history just got even weirder.
*Reference is made to Don King, whom I never thought existed in the Rocky-verse, since his role was filled by George Washington Duke in Rocky V. So.. did the careers of Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, et al play out almost true to real-life? Man... this alternative boxing history just got even weirder.
*Adonis Creed starts to reference Rocky's "It ain't about how hard you hit" but changes the ending to make it way less memorable.
*Dame's attempts to pressure Adonis into giving the same opportunity that Apollo gave Rocky was an interesting tactic, but it just didn't seem to mean as much when Adonis almost ordered Chavez to do it instead of fighting Dame himself to begin with.
*Chavez didn't even look like he belonged in the same weight class with Dame during their title bout.
*Did Michael B. Jordan get some CGI enhanced muscles at the end of his training montage? If not, very impressive. If so, they should have given Chavez a little movie magic too.
*In-universe, you would have thought a good health Rocky Balboa would have at least attended the funeral. Maybe not the Battle of LA. But... I dunno.
*This Looper article (https://www.looper.com/1214790/small-details-and-references-you-missed-in-creed-iii/) has some good observations; I especially thought the in-film switch from HBO to Showtime was an interesting point for the real-life relationship between MGM/Amazon/Warner Bros (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showpost.php?p=1957884&postcount=60).
*What does it mean for Adonis to reclaim the unified heavyweight championships years after retirement? What would be his next logical step since the #1-3 ranked challengers would either be under his promotional stable or are training buddies/frienemies?
*A couple of the rap songs are heavy on the "N-word" to a point where they are impossible to ignore (the flashback scene and the leadup to the Battle of LA). I started to wonder if this was the right movie for someone like... uh, me.

[Andrew NDB]

At the moment it is tracking above both Creed movies but it has not eclipsed them yet. We'll see in a couple of weeks.

OK, so Creed 3 has blown everything out of the water. 30 million more domestically than Creed 2 (which made about 10 million more than 1) and still growing. 248 overall. It domestically made the most of ALL Creed and Rocky movies, ever. It is only 2nd to Rocky IV's 300 million worldwide, but the domestic numbers mean it actually MADE more money than that at the end of the day.

I suspect Stallone won't like that either. I'd think he'd be imagining or at least hoping that a Rocky-less Creed movie would flop to prove a point.


The movie went to great lengths to build up Chavez as a full character despite not being essential to the plot as anything more than a jobber to buildup Dame; they give Chavez's mother several lines of spoken dialogue and an entire scene to the Chavez family considering whether to take the title fight with Dame. He gets a wonderfully eccentric fight intro and we get a three-round fight that culminates in his death scene... except he doesn't officially die. Beyond that his off-camera condition is referenced and then we see him attending the Battle for Los Angeles, I guess to make everybody feel good that he recovered. But... why bother? I felt like the movie was going hard for Rocky IV symmetry but giving Adonis a reason to come "out of retirement" and "avenge" his friend. Only problem is, Chavez and Adonis (and Duke Jr.) have a primarily business relationship where friendship (if it exists) is only a footnote. When Adonis stares down Dame after that Chavez beating, you feel like he's more upset over the damage to his business brand than potentially losing a friend (Adonis isn't exactly cradling Chavez's body like Rocky did for Apollo).

Yeah, that was weird. I wonder if he did die and then there was reshoots, perhaps to make it less overtly Rocky IV-like.

And then Mrs. Creed dies (heavily foreshadowed earlier) and that's the big emotional moment for Adonis, but the funeral happens, and then... I think that's it for that plot point. They have the nice connection together that's supposed to forgive any resentment between them, but whether or not her death provides any additional challenge, baggage or motivation for Adonis and his title bout with Dame is a moot point, at best.

Yeah, it's just sort of, "Oh, and now this happened."

So the movie has an in-ring "death" followed by a funeral for a major franchise character, but neither seem essential to raising the steaks for this film's conclusion. Those are thematic elements that Rocky III & IV landed with way more impact.

Way more impact, sold better by solid music that brings the feels. Where is it here? It's not.

*Reference is made to Don King, whom I never thought existed in the Rocky-verse, since his role was filled by George Washington Duke in Rocky V. So.. did the careers of Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, et al play out almost true to real-life? Man... this alternative boxing history just got even weirder.

They really should have made the reference to George Washington Duke.

*Adonis Creed starts to reference Rocky's "It ain't about how hard you hit" but changes the ending to make it way less memorable.

Yeah, that bugged me.

*Chavez didn't even look like he belonged in the same weight class with Dame during their title bout.

He really didn't. It was visibly laughable.

*In-universe, you would have thought a good health Rocky Balboa would have at least attended the funeral. Maybe not the Battle of LA. But... I dunno.

Of course he would've. "I'm too busy babysitting the grandkids to attend my dear dead friend Apollo's wife's funeral, who is also the mother of my dear friend Adonis" wouldn't fly.

*A couple of the rap songs are heavy on the "N-word" to a point where they are impossible to ignore (the flashback scene and the leadup to the Battle of LA). I started to wonder if this was the right movie for someone like... uh, me.

Oh, it's fine. Better than the songs they censored in Creed 1. Or was it 2? One of them was like the radio edits.

[CyberCubed]

Well I saw it and it was reasonably good for what it was. I still like the main cast and his deaf daughter, his mother constantly having strokes and the wife/singer didn't do much in this one.

But yeah without Rocky...this could just be any other generic black boxing movie. You don't even have to have seen Creed 1 or 2 to understand this. At this point if there are sequels I'll probably stop here, now it could just be any generic movie about black people boxing.

One reason I liked the Rocky movies is after the first one it basically became like Punchout. It became a little less realistic and more like a superhero boxing movie franchise. Now it's just a black drama. So while this was good I think this will be the last one I watch.

[oldmanwinters]

this could just be any other generic black boxing movie

About how many films already exist in that genre?

[CyberCubed]

I don't really watch any other boxing movies but I assume they make movies with black people boxing all the time? I am pretty sure Will Smith played Muhammed Ali in a movie.

[XERO]

This is the dumbest sh*t I've ever read.

[oldmanwinters]

This is the dumbest sh*t I've ever read.

Got the bug to randomly start thinking about this thread and some comments I wrote on the Rocky-verse history, so wanted to come back and read through the whole thing, and got a major chuckle about the last word way back in 2023!

[CyberCubed]

BTW is this series over? Doesn't seem like a Creed 4 is planned. So this might be the end of the trilogy, and I doubt we'll ever see "Rocky" in canon again.

[Andrew NDB]

BTW is this series over? Doesn't seem like a Creed 4 is planned. So this might be the end of the trilogy, and I doubt we'll ever see "Rocky" in canon again.

It's planned (https://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=66471). Which would make you assume that it'd probably be about Creed training his deaf daughter to box while contending with his now fully deaf wife (what a joy that would be to watch)... but apparently we'll see the daughter getting trained in the Delphi spinoff (https://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?t=67537), so who knows what Creed IV will be.

The Winklers haven't made nice with Stallone so there's 0 chance of Rocky coming back into things, though.

[oldmanwinters]

Speaking of Rocky V and the franchise time-line. It feels like the movie spans a little over a year, (maybe two) but how long would one expect a formerly amateur/semi-pro fighter (granted, with a high-profile manager) to work his way up to #1 contender and eventual heavy-weight champion? . . . If Rocky V plays out over 4-5 years, it's actually more remarkable that Sage Stallone doesn't age up noticeably between beginning and end of the movie than it is that he's suddenly way older than he looked before Rocky went to Russia. It would seem like this would have been a decent opportunity to show two versions of Rocky Jr, one with a child actor closer to the appearance in Rocky IV, then Sage Stallone for the real meat of the film.


*Apollo Creed apparently owned (and had presumably attended) the 1974 Rumble in the Jungle match between Ali and Foreman. Not the first reference to the legendary fight in the franchise, but when exactly did Apollo Creed find the time to dominate the heavyweight division (he "retired more men than Social Security") up through January 1st, 1976? Man... this alternative boxing history just got even weirder.
*Reference is made to Don King, whom I never thought existed in the Rocky-verse, since his role was filled by George Washington Duke in Rocky V. So.. did the careers of Larry Holmes, Mike Tyson, Evander Holyfield, Lennox Lewis, et al play out almost true to real-life? Man... this alternative boxing history just got even weirder.

Ok, I found a guy on YouTube who does "What If?" boxing history videos, and he makes a valiant attempt to reconcile all of the weird historical anachronisms of the Rocky-verse's alternative history.

Apollo Creed's professional history prior to the first Rocky fight on January 1, 1976:
ZUoJz8oJ-74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUoJz8oJ-74

Rocky's 10 title defenses prior to the first Clubber Lang fight in... 1981(?!?):
N5dwo_nCQBQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N5dwo_nCQBQ

A WILD one! Rocky's other title defenses under Apollo's management (1982-1985) which surprisingly culminates in their secret rematch (on Paulie's birthday) prior to the emergence of Drago:
8-OliKzXS6U
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8-OliKzXS6U

Tommy Gunn's rise to the title from 1986-1990:
O2g-bI4BNgI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2g-bI4BNgI

Spoilers:
* Apollo fights and beats a TON of guys between 1968-1974.
* There's a lot of politics disputes between the WBA and WBC championship brands.
* There's a lot of blustering between Apollo, & Ali. Foreman and Frazier are still big dogs in the heavyweight circuit. In 1974, Ali beats Frazier and Foreman beats Ken Norton to setup the Rumble in the Jungle. Is it still really a "championship fight" with Apollo as the undisputed champ? I dunno...
* Apollo beats Foreman in 12 rounds in 1972 to take the unified, undisputed heavyweight championship (pro record of 24-0)
* Larry Holmes get several bad breaks which prevents him from having his world championship reign.
* Apollo gases his tank to beat Ali in 1975, after the Rumble in the Jungle
* Apollo and Frazier never fight despite having plans for it in 1976, foiled by Frazier failing a sight-test, leading to the scheduling of the Creed vs. Mac Lee Green, who then gets injured, setting in motion the events of the first Rocky film.
* Apollo retires with a pro record of 47-1.
* Rocky beats Larry Holmes twice (the too-young and too-old versions) among his title defenses, but notoriously ducks him during his prime years.
* George Foreman retires after losing to Jimmy Young and is out-of-the-picture (like the real history)
* The dude just can't bring himself to acknowledge Rocky really fought a guy named "Big Yank Ball." And also recons the German champ into ... some real European guy I can't remember.
* Clubber steamrolls a slightly past-prime Larry Holmes, Leon Spinks, and a much-too-old Ali prior to his bouts with Rocky
* Clubber retires after the Rocky loss, and becomes a born-again Christian and fight commentator (similar to the original idea Stallone had for Rocky Balboa)
* An on-the-rise Drago defeats young Tyrell Biggs and young Lennox Lewis in goodwill/amateur fights, but because Russia was banned from the Olympics, Drago has no shot at a gold medal.
* George W. Duke and Don King have competing boxing-promotion empires of Showtime and HBO. Both Kind and Duke WANT to ally with #1 contender Mike Tyson. Union Cane becomes Duke's Showtime tournament champ in 1986. Tyson ultimately signs with King in 1988.
* Tommy Gunn gets the decision against the comeback-George Foreman in late 1988. Gunn defeats Buster Douglas in 1989 to earn the #2 contender rank (behind Tyson). By this point, Gunn has broken off from Rocky.
* Gunn shockingly knocks out Tyson in 1990, then easily beats Cane to become undisputed champion later that year.
* After losing the street-fight to Rocky, Gunn loses his title to Cane a 1991 rematch. G.W. Duke backlists Gunn, but his own corruption becomes public due to King's meddling. Tommy Gunn and Tommy Morrison are supposed to have a bout but Gunn's heart just isn't in it anymore.