Karai

[neatoman]

Well, if we're gonna have a bunch of April threads...

... Hm... Relevant topic to justify this thread... How do you feel about the 4Kids Karai being the template for most versions of Karai and why do you think the reason for that is?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Hate it. Karai is not Shredder's daughter; biological, adopted, kidnapped, or otherwise.

[newfan]

Not sure the thread had to be justified, people could just want to do character focus threads maybe?
I like the daughter angle, but it's the first I knew of her so easier to say that, also I am bias here.

So far as 2k3, as Laird was involved with that, are his thoughts on how she was portrayed known?

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Justice for Pimiko. :tlol:

(Also a better wardrobe.)

[oldmanwinters]

"Karrie"

That's how most people pronounced her name who hadn't yet seen her in the 4Kids cartoon. :tlol:

[skylord]

I actually like the angle Karai has in the IDW comics but I wish she wouldn't refer to him as her grandfather. Dude's an ancient ancestor. I'd take ancestor at least.

Either way having her be indebted to Shredder by blood often makes her weaker. I could do without it for sure.

[garsh]

Just to cut in on this, my first exposure to Karai was in the Tournament Fighters SNES game. I was totally oblivious to who she was supposed to be, but for some reason I didn't even question it. I think I just assumed Konami invented their own new top villain and I just rolled with it. After all, as far as I knew at the time they had invented Aska from out of the blue too.

Interesting trivia for anyone who doesn't know; apparently Aska was originally going to be Mitsu from the third movie and they just stripped away her identity (and her pants) before the game was released.

Also, while I'm talking about Karai, I want to just mention that someone at Playmates deserves some credit for actually releasing a great Karai figure for 2012 Nick Turts. They didn't cut her short on articulation or deco, even though they knew full well she wouldn't be a major seller. That was just a blatant gesture of goodwill to fans.

[Andrew NDB]

Hate it. Karai is not Shredder's daughter; biological, adopted, kidnapped, or otherwise.

This. It's downright disrespectful to the character and insulting to... powerful women characters in general, honestly. It's as if to say "Karai can't be an important character unless she's related to Oroku Saki and under him."

[triplexxx]

When I got the 1987 series on DVD and saw Lotus Blossom, I thought she was supposed to be a take on her, but Karai hadn't yet appeared in the comics, so Lotus pre-dated her.

[oldmanwinters]

This. It's downright disrespectful to the character and insulting to... powerful women characters in general, honestly. It's as if to say "Karai can't be an important character unless she's related to Oroku Saki and under him."

Yeah, I agree it's unfortunate that casual Turtle fans seem to assume Karai is essentially "Shredder's daughter." It's a world removed from her original character.

[Leo656]

Just to cut in on this, my first exposure to Karai was in the Tournament Fighters SNES game. I was totally oblivious to who she was supposed to be, but for some reason I didn't even question it. I think I just assumed Konami invented their own new top villain and I just rolled with it. After all, as far as I knew at the time they had invented Aska from out of the blue too.


Yeah, I remember being utterly confused about who the hell Karai was, but I think I somehow knew that she was from the Mirage comics which I'd never read before. Not sure how I knew that exactly but I wasn't under the impression that she was made up. I might've read it in a magazine or something. But yeah, Tournament Fighters was my first exposure to her as well.

[newfan]

I'm sure I've speculated this somewhere else on here but so far as things like the shows go I guess it had something to do with Shredder already being established as the main big bad? so there was a matter of fitting her in after that? mixing aspects of Shredder having a daughter but using Karai by name? I have no idea.. just throwing out thoughts. Only read 2 volumes of Mirage so far so not come across Karai here yet.

I thought it odd how Karai had just gone for the last two seasons of 2k3 (okay the last one as obviously she would be in fast forward), SKY tv did miss a couple of eps when it put the series up but I don't think I missed one later on that covered that, that she was leaving or any mention of her I mean. As I only watched in recent years I wonder if any fans of her took issue with that at the time, I'm glad I got Nicks Rai for the series.

[The Great Saiyaman]

Well, if we're gonna have a bunch of April threads...

... Hm... Relevant topic to justify this thread... How do you feel about the 4Kids Karai being the template for most versions of Karai and why do you think the reason for that is?

Actually, 2003 Karai wasn't the first.
CnO_B2yBt2I
Lotus Blossom from the 1987 series was brought in by Krang to replace Shredder as head of the Foot Clan. As this clip shows, she and Leo got on like a house on fire. Lotus isn't Karai but she definitely is the prototype for what Karai became.

https://dyn1.heritagestatic.com/lf?set=path%5B9%2F0%2F9%2F3%2F9093914%5D%2Csizedat a%5B850x600%5D&call=url%5Bfile%3Aproduct.chain%5D
Karai of the Mirage Comics, 1990. THIS was the first TRUE Karai but much like Lotus Blossom she was to be the replacement for Shredder. This Karai was quite a lot older than subsequent versions of the character, being a mother of a teenage daughter. (https://img.fireden.net/co/image/1455/28/1455281237024.png) She remained a "Frenemy" of the Turtles throughout the series.

https://ninjaturtlesfansite.weebly.com/uploads/1/3/9/0/13903788/3763174.jpg?380
The 2003 Karai was pretty much the Mirage series Karai but a lot younger and without having become a mother.

https://static.comicvine.com/uploads/original/6/67602/2118095-iv00151.jpg
The 2007 Karai. Basically follows the pattren of the Mirage and 2003 karai, as Shredder's replacement as head of the Foot clan. Not much else is to say about her.

https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/heroes-and-villians/images/d/d1/YfifIF1g4Vex.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20171125200023
The IDW series Karai. THIS Karai, has quite the interesting background story. She was the daughter of a filthy rich corrupt businessman by the name of Oroku Nori, who ran the Foot Clan as a criminal enterprise with lawyers in place of the Ninja's. Karai, out of sheer boredom, began to train in Ninjitsu and using black magic to bring the clan's founder Oroku Saki back from the dead. This Karai is easily the most blood thirsty of all versions of the character but not the most dangerous.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/93/6a/00/936a00d7c19538d37d92be830c63910b.png
The 2012 Karai. It's actually a shame that we haven't gotten to see more of Hamato Miwa as out all of them she was the most accomplished warrior and most well rounded character. As for being the most dangerous, lest we forget she has that ace in the hole with being able to do THIS...
https://images-wixmp-ed30a86b8c4ca887773594c2.wixmp.com/f/a5ba22b4-e02d-4f04-948b-44359de1ed45/d7oh86q-65738a4e-eb64-4339-8543-b0eeca1b7292.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJ IUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOiIsImlzcyI6InVybjph cHA6Iiwib2JqIjpbW3sicGF0aCI6IlwvZlwvYTViYTIyYjQtZT AyZC00ZjA0LTk0OGItNDQzNTlkZTFlZDQ1XC9kN29oODZxLTY1 NzM4YTRlLWViNjQtNDMzOS04NTQzLWIwZWVjYTFiNzI5Mi5wbm cifV1dLCJhdWQiOlsidXJuOnNlcnZpY2U6ZmlsZS5kb3dubG9h ZCJdfQ.Z02LELPjIZeHBtba6U41Ap--XSmf3HaVD20GEFYjk2Q
But keeping it as a last ditch effort move as actually transforming makes her go feral.

Yes, unfortunately we have to mention the Bay-movies Karai's too.
https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/villains/images/c/cd/Karai.png/revision/latest?cb=20141225221923
Minai Noji as Karai, she wasn't even a ninja.

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/63/91/a2/6391a2ae4acdab82e0fe3ad89b7d3fcf.jpg
Brittany Ishibashi, was a ninja but barely spoke and basically was a prop.

https://64.media.tumblr.com/2f805bc9101ad630e545bb6016ac3760/fc9b5a286bf2beae-ba/s400x600/168a7e42706135d071497929abb159720fcf7d62.gifv
The 2018 "Rise" Karai is the founder of the Hamato clan. But what's more interesting is that she wasn't the only Karai-kind of character of that series, as Cassandra "Casey" Jones, AKA "Foot Recruit" fulfilled the more classic Karai role.
https://64.media.tumblr.com/2b1257f8c4d4754b04925cd9d53414cf/cde18ef68e6f84f1-33/s640x960/34e847a1372ce15cab3c7b8ef24b534e6086080c.png

[The Great Saiyaman]

I forgot one...

https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-2E2uqP86LLc/UkoBNovwHlI/AAAAAAAALMk/m2oeljbieII/s1600/leo3-4.jpg
Leonardo's wife in the series "Blind sight" While not a Karai per-se, the 2012 series Karai very strongly resembles her, which knowing that series, was intentional.

[newfan]

Cool run of images Saiyaman.
There seemed little point to her in the PD movies, in the 2nd she seemed to just be there. Little to know about 2k7 though she had more significance that PD.
I don't like where they have had April best her.

2012's wasn't even going to be Karai originally, that decision came later as a love letter to 2k3 apparently (I noticed a tweet by one of the writers) so she would have been her own character, I like the name Karai but as it was my first introduction I guess I would not have known any different, just there would be no other version of her if that had been the case (even though versions vary anyway)

I'd heard about Leo having a wife somewhere, was that part of a dream or AU?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

Mirage Karai debuted in October 1992, not 1990.

[The Great Saiyaman]

Mirage Karai debuted in October 1992, not 1990.

Ah sorry my bad.

[neatoman]

Actually, 2003 Karai wasn't the first.
CnO_B2yBt2I
Lotus Blossom from the 1987 series was brought in by Krang to replace Shredder as head of the Foot Clan. As this clip shows, she and Leo got on like a house on fire. Lotus isn't Karai but she definitely is the prototype for what Karai became.

Karai of the Mirage Comics, 1990. THIS was the first TRUE Karai but much like Lotus Blossom she was to be the replacement for Shredder. This Karai was quite a lot older than subsequent versions of the character, She remained a "Frenemy" of the Turtles throughout the series.


Setting aside what an irrelevant character Lotus Blossom really is, I still think we can exclude her from this debate. She only really shares similarities to Karai if we define her very loosely. She doesn't "replace" Shredder on the grounds of some chain of command structure, she's just some mercenary Krang hires, there are no personal connections or motives involved. Also, I doubt anyone was inspired by her when writing Karai, given how superficial the similarities really are.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, 0 chance Kevin or especially Peter were like, "You know how the cartoon uses none of our notes these days? Well how about we make our own version of that Lotus Blossom lady from last week's episode?"

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Japanese swordswoman / kunoichi clashing with the unofficial leader of the TMNT is such an original and unique concept, after all.

NO WAY two different people came up with THAT one. :tlol:

Also, Leonardo and Karai had exactly ZERO sexual tension in Mirage. That only came later, with Nick primarily (although some people argue for 4Kids starting it, I think)