Which of the "failure" TMNT reboots/series did you like most or least?

[CyberCubed]

There were 3 TMNT series/reboots that bombed, at least in the eyes of fans:



1. Next Mutation. Infamously mostly known for introducing Venus, the show also got canceled in just 1 season of 26 episodes. It was the end of TMNT on TV for years until the 4kids 2k3 series came out.

https://static.tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pub/images/next_mutation_hd.png


2. Platinum Dunes Michael Bay Ninja Turtles. Infamously known for giving the Turtles nostrils/noses, Megan Fox April, and for nearly making Shredder a white man named Eric Sachs but then going back on it, this movie series pretty much tanked.

https://www.thefancarpet.net/featureimages/tmntsequel1.jpg

3. Rise of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. The most recent TMNT cartoon, it was canceled after only 2 seasons and even had its second season reduced in episode order due to how badly it bombed. There is still a movie for it coming out on netflix next year which will properly wrap up this universe.

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51iC66o-XbL.jpg


Out of all the TMNT series and reboots we've had over 30+ years, these 3 were the biggest bombs by far. Ironically enough all 3 were meant to revive the franchise at time of debut too.

[Leo656]

I'll hold my nose and say "The Next Mutation" was the least offensive by a fair margin.

[Galactus]

To be honest I've barely seen anything of Rise so I have to rule that out.

So it's toss up between the Bay TMNT vs The Next Mutation as the 'better' option. Whoda thunk it.

[IndigoErth]

Next Mutation is a guilty pleasure. I can watch it without fast forwarding. I've recently tried to start my nephew on it, though he doesn't have much attention span yet so it may be a rather extended viewing.

While PD Leo won his place in my heart with most versions, I pretty much love him in OotS, but those films still suck and on the rare occasions I've had it on (and it's been quite a while and not at any time this year), I fast forward through some of the stuff (non-TMNT) that I just can't watch anymore. Not being able to enjoy the entirety at all, even for what it is, puts it below Next Mutation. It's easier just to watch the best parts as YouTube clips.

Rise... just doesn't inspire any feeling to wanting to rewatch any of it again, so that's dead last.

[sdp]

I haven't watched enough of Rise to make an accurate judgement so I'll skip it for now. As many here know I love Ninja Turtles The Next Mutation (https://miscrave.com/articles/ninja-turtles-the-next-mutation/), I can overlook the flaws and it feels very much like other Power Rangers ameritoku shows by Saban.
PD on the other hand I also don't think they're that bad, are they great interpretations? No but they have some good elements, I personally think they got the "family" aspect better than many other versions of the turtles and despite the horrible designs the movie made them work. They're a bit boring but I think overall they're much better than say TMNT 3 and more engaging to watch than TMNT 2007. Are the PD movies mediocre? Sure however are they the worst thing to happen to the turtles? Probably not.

[Andrew NDB]

Never seen Rise of the TMNT. Never watched the second Platinum Dunes movie.

[Shark_Blade]

I’ll go for Rise even though it’s based of Bayturtles but has more screentime and more appealing personalities.

[sdp]

Shouldn't we count TMNT 2007 a failure? The toys sold well but the movie didn't get a sequel, crippled the studio that made it, IMAGI which it was never able to recover from (we never got that cool G-Force Gatchaman Movie (https://miscrave.com/articles/imagi-gatchaman/)). The movie did give higher ratings the 2k3 show after release but in a way its failure was also the beginning of the death of TMNT during the Laird era. 2k3 got cancelled shortly after, no news or anything to look forward to until Peter Laird sold TMNT.

[Autbot_Benz]

I am gonna say Next Mutation only because of Phelous's hilarious reviews where he rips them apart.

[Roseangelo]

I definitely enjoyed Next Mutation when it first came out. There are a lot of fun bits to it that get lost in the endless complaining. I think the thing that drives me crazy about the show now, that makes it hard for me to defend it too much, is the damn sound effects added to every bit of movement. Ugh.

The Bay movies have zero redeeming qualities.

I'll give Rise a second chance if it does all get dumped onto Netflix.

[Roseangelo]

Shouldn't we count TMNT 2007 a failure? The toys sold well but the movie didn't get a sequel, crippled the studio that made it, IMAGI which it was never able to recover from (we never got that cool G-Force Gatchaman Movie (https://miscrave.com/articles/imagi-gatchaman/)). The movie did give higher ratings the 2k3 show after release but in a way its failure was also the beginning of the death of TMNT during the Laird era. 2k3 got cancelled shortly after, no news or anything to look forward to until Peter Laird sold TMNT.

The 2007 movie wasn't a failure for what it was. And it wasn't what tanked Imagi. Mirage's general management of the TMNT between then and the sale to Viacom is what tanked the brand during those years.

[ZariusTwo]

Next Mutation had a lot of problems and is still pretty bad, but points go to it for doing things different with their new characters. Plus it had the fortune of crossing over with one of the better Power Rangers seasons, even if the team-up wasn't one of it's highlights.

Out of the Shadows is a guilty pleasure of mine, a great tribute to the 80s cartoon. Doesn't try to be anything else.

[neatoman]

Well, Out of the Shadows really pissed me off. I mean it really pissed me off. There was nothing, virtually nothing, in that movie I expected/wanted from TMNT or even a good movie. So I am tempted to vote for Platinum Dunes based purely on the pain in my ass.

On the other hand, while the Next Mutation isn't as rage inducing by any means, it's much more bizarre and the low budget does not help. The editing and writing seriously makes it hard to follow what's even going on half the time. It also has this bizarre part about dubbing live-action face actors who (I assume) were speaking english in the first place. So on an objective level, it is probably worse.

So do I go by pain in my ass or try to stay objective?

As for which one I like better, Rise. The direction might be undesired but it's hardly as incompetent as the other two.

[The Turtle Terminator]

Couldn’t sit through a whole episode of ROTT, or the OOTS, so the Next Mutation takes the cake for being the best of a bad bunch. Like the worst seasons of Power Rangers, it fits in the “so bad it’s good” category

[sdp]

The 2007 movie wasn't a failure for what it was. And it wasn't what tanked Imagi. Mirage's general management of the TMNT between then and the sale to Viacom is what tanked the brand during those years.

It was Astro Boy that killed Imagi, but they were definitely counting on TMNT being a hit, that did give them a huge blow to them and investors trusted them only with Astro Boy after that and we know how that went. But you're right, they definitely milked the TMNT 2007 brand and designs in toys and games at least for the next years.

I remember you were very critical of the last few Laird years, what would you have done differently? I feel back then we all wanted a little FW influence, but now that Viacom has the franchise and it's all we're getting and I kind of regret it.
https://centuriesofsound.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/monkey-paw.jpg?w=640

[mikey0]

Next Mutation and the Bayverse Turtles were my two for this poll. Rise is a product of its time, but it doesn’t feel like TMNT to me (seriously, no Shredder until season 2).

OOTS had a Pizza Hut promotion and the giant Pizza Thrower at Comic Con was awesome. Next Mutation was probably more successful than Bay Turtles and Rise. I remember the turtles themselves (minus Venus) were always sold out at every big box toy store I went to in the late 90s. It was not until the 5 pack sets came to KB Toys in ‘98 did I see variants of the boys in person.

[PizzaPower1985]

I discount them all. The one I am peripherally aware of is Platinum Dunes because I watched the 1st one. Plunked down cash for a theater seat! Ugh.

Seen clips of Rise and clips of the other... Don't care in the slightest. Not even intelligent enough for a pre-Teen audience in my mind.

[frank_one]

As a sequel to the original Cartoon and the first three movies, The next Mutation was the most honest and coherent even if horrible. BayTurtles are full of stereotypes, Rise changed random stuff just for the sake of it (like April's race).

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

There were 3 TMNT series/reboots that bombed, at least in the eyes of fans:

You forgot the Dreamwave comics.

[CyberCubed]

The 2007 movie made Imagi a profit and did well for them, it's just that the entire studio went bankrupt a few years later due to poor management. As for the movie itself its harmless, it wasn't anything amazing but it was fine, if forgettable.

You forgot the Dreamwave comics.

Cartoon tie-in comics aren't really distinct enough outside the Archie run. Rise of the TMNT has comics published by IDW as well.

[neatoman]

I'm surprised that TNM is leading in the poll, especially by such a wide margin. Maybe the distance of it softens the view on it? Easier to forget what it was really like maybe?

Anyway, I watched all of it for the first time not too long ago. If you consider it the least offensive of the three, I don't really think it is. Maybe not rage inducing as OotS, but it is certainly insultingly unwatchable.

[NinjaPug]

I’ll be shocked if there is ever an incarnation of TMNT that I hate more than Platinum Dunes.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

I've never seen the Next Mutation.

When comparing Rise and Bayturtles though, Rise easily comes out on top. Its not even a close comparison, with Rise's 2D animation being much more pleasing to the eye than the hideous CGI of PD, the characters being much more likeable overall, and there being a much more endearing story in the end.

And being original doesn't automatically equal to being better, but Rise gets props for sticking to its original vision while the Bayturtles films pandered to other versions, even if it cost them in terms of quality (for e.g. the first film ditching its ridiculous alien concepts and becoming a dull/forgettable film in return, and Out of the Shadows heavily pandering to Fred Wolf nostalgia).

[D-ray]

The Platinum Dunes reboot might be trash and all, but atleast was kind of enjoyable and a little bit "consistent".
The next mutation is just weird and ugly, not even the funny weird of the movies. The fifth turtle (Venus) never made any sense to me.
I liked the idea of adding more things to the show, but how it was made didn't really went good for me.

[CyberCubed]

I'm surprised that TNM is leading in the poll, especially by such a wide margin. Maybe the distance of it softens the view on it? Easier to forget what it was really like maybe?.

Probably nostalgia. It aired in 1997 so a lot of us who watched it when it aired were kids/young teens.

I don't care for Next mutation, but the show would be 100% more watchable without the sound effects.

[IndigoErth]

I never even saw it back then, was out of the TMNT loop at the time (and a fresh high school grad with my attention on other things), but I guess watching it as an adult a few or so years ago knowing it was already past history made the failings of it less offensive.

I guess Rise could have been similar had I watched it 10 years from now instead, rather than now and setting expectations too high hoping for something more than what it was and not the present incarnation.

[Leo656]

I can at least give TNM some leeway on account of the franchise was still fairly "new", in that there hadn't been a bunch of different versions of it yet, thus "they" didn't know just how far yet they could bend the premise without breaking it. What they could get away with before it got "too stupid", etc. etc. They found out - and frankly, should have already known - but something that bad was bound to happen eventually. It's inevitable with any franchise.

BayTurtles and Rise, however, were made in an era where people god damn should have known better than to try and push that kinda sh*t on people. So it's a lot less forgivable. Plus, TNM didn't make big waves when it was out and many people who identify as "TMNT Fans" don't even know it exists, and it's more of a forgotten camp relic than anything, like the Filmation Batman cartoon. "Not good, but mostly-harmless". Without the internet, nobody'd even remember or talk about it.

Whereas BayTurtles and Rise were pushed as a pretty big deal, and "thanks" to the internet even bad things have a much wider reach than ever before, so instead of being cast off and forgotten they stand to pollute the brand in some form or fashion for decades to come, whether it's through their awful character designs or terrible story choices or whatever else. It's like, nobody really wants anything from TNM to come back, BUT a few people of questionable taste will inevitably push for stuff from BayTurtles and Rise to stick around. NONE of it should be kept, but you already see a few people insisting on exceptions for ______.

So yeah, all three are bad but BayTurtles and Rise did far more damage, in my opinion, and they most likely will be doing damage for a long time to come. It's amazing to me how in the current era, every time I think I've seen the worst TMNT has to offer, someone just has to go and top themselves. I really wish they'd stop doing that.

[PizzaPower1985]

It's not really been confirmed but I do think that the reason 2K3 was so good was because, by the early 2000s, Laird was so disgusted by 1987 and Next Mutation that he took great care with the next project.

[sdp]

I'm disgusted by all the FW crap we'll be getting forever. I love me some Rocksteady and Beebop but 2k3 feels so refreshing just because it doesn't have any of those FW mutants.
Laird took the "no references" to an extreme and we missed them, but we've been hit over the head with FW ever since Viacom got it, I miss the "Nothing from FW" years now.

[CyberCubed]

Rise of the TMNT had no Fred Wolf characters at all, so I don't see why people think that's all the new series are.

[PizzaPower1985]

Rise of the TMNT had no Fred Wolf characters at all, so I don't see why people think that's all the new series are.

Because, like FW, it's largely for very young children and adults who refuse to be... adults.

[neatoman]

Rise of the TMNT had no Fred Wolf characters at all, so I don't see why people think that's all the new series are.

That is true, there are no characters originating with the Fred Wolf cartoon or the toyline it was marketing. However, it is once again a show that prioritises goofy comedy, mutants that are whatever just because, a ton of characters clearly meant to build up a toyline, vehicles meant to market even more toys and pizza obsession. It may not carry on the characters or most of the core concepts, but much of the approach does carry over.

[CyberCubed]

Well we'll never have a new series without a ton of mutants. It's how it is. What I find interesting is each incarnation tries to make a new pair of major mutants (Nick originally with Dogpound/Fishface and then Tiger Claw, IDW with Koya and Bludgeon, and Rise with Meat Sweats, Hypno, etc), and then they just wind up falling back on classic characters again.

[80gmrp]

Personally, maybe it’s that I never watched TNM, but having watched OOTS, I didn’t think it was terrible, and I fail to see how it’s extremely different in mood from the better selling 2nd Avengers movie (which I was peer pressured to watch in theaters). The designs of the turtles, especially Michelangelo, are valid concerns to me, but otherwise...

Then again, I did not watch the first Bay movie yet, which, apparently, has an even worse reception.

[Galactus]

Personally, maybe it’s that I never watched TNM, but having watched OOTS, I didn’t think it was terrible, and I fail to see how it’s extremely different in mood from the better selling 2nd Avengers movie (which I was peer pressured to watch in theaters). The designs of the turtles, especially Michelangelo, are valid concerns to me, but otherwise...

Then again, I did not watch the first Bay movie yet, which, apparently, has an even worse reception.

Personally it's difficult to really compare the two Bay movies as the first movie really suffers from how obvious it is that chopped and changed the movie was two or three times. Every scene with Tohoru Masamune feels very different to the rest of the movie, then you have two different purposes for the mutagen and then two different motivations for the villains. Add to that the usual Bay nonsense and learning ninjutsu from a book and it all adds up to terrible.

By comparison they are no real big plot holes with Out Of The Shadows. It all makes sense but it falls short of even being a good inoffensive popcorn-fest or a nostalgia trip. The action is pretty sub par and Shredder gets iced before he does anything and the frankly bizarre choice of having the Technodrome assemble slowly piece by piece only to disassemble straight away really hurts its main selling point of being the Fred Wolf show in live action.

They are both horrible in different ways.

I'm somewhat puzzled by the comparison to Avengers 2. If anything it tries to ape the first Avengers movie at least in my opinion. At least Age of Ultron had the theme of the dangers of technology, how our fears affect us, family (Hawkeye and his, Vision and Ultron, Bruce and Natasha not being able to have one). There's a good movie in there somewhere it just wasn't quite out together quite 'right'. OOTS doesn't attempt anything other than trying to sell toys.

[80gmrp]

Personally it's difficult to really compare the two Bay movies as the first movie really suffers from how obvious it is that chopped and changed the movie was two or three times. Every scene with Tohoru Masamune feels very different to the rest of the movie, then you have two different purposes for the mutagen and then two different motivations for the villains. Add to that the usual Bay nonsense and learning ninjutsu from a book and it all adds up to terrible.

Yeah, I did hear that about the first Bay movie even while it was being made, which is one reason why I've been taking so long to watch it for myself already.

As for the comparison to Avengers, both it and OOTS seemed cheesy to me in their own ways. Beyond that statement, it seems we'll just have to agree to disagree there.

[Powder]

I love Rise & The Next Mutation. Both have a lot of redeeming qualities & unique, original characters/plots.

PD is a steaming pile.

[srmff]

I actually like Rise for what it is. It can put a smile on my face anyway.

I never gave the Next Mutation a chance to be honest. Venus and the costumes are just too much for me. Who knows, maybe some day. I'll probably at least watch one episode some time. It is on Netflix after all.

I didn't like the first PD movie. It wasn't unbearable but I've never had any urge to watch it a second time and I hate the designs. There's also the mess with Eric Sachs and the Shredder, learning ninjutsu from a book and April getting so much focus. I still have to watch the 2nd one. I saw one scene and Leo came across as a jerk in it so not a great incentive for me. I definitely will before the year ends though since it's on Amazon Prime.

[CyberCubed]

OK now that I've finally watched all of Rise properly, I have to say the show really grew on me. :tmad:

It's still my least favorite of the four cartoons we had so far, but the show actually had some great eps as it progressed and some neat concepts. Like most people I had a complete turn around on Rise's Splinter, who like most I hated in his first few eps and then he turned out to be really well developed and one of the most likeable characters of the show. The finale really sold me on the series overall and really showed how much potential it had.

There were a lot of eps that were too silly for my tastes, and of course I wish it had been more action and less comedy focused, and the designs of the Turtles while not too bad could have been more traditional, it actually came across pretty well.

Powder you were right about this one. I quit watching Rise after the first 10 eps originally but now gave it a proper chance and watched all of Seasons 1 and 2 over the last week or so. Pretty fun show, if not my ideal series. I hope the movie brings in Krang or the Utroms finally.

[neatoman]

Would it be too cruel to add the Image series to this discussion? I mean it only lasted 23 issues and was only granted a resolution 20 years later because it was reprinted. And if financial failure isn't enough, I must admit that I never found the series all that engaging. Quite a lot of it feels less like a continuation of Volume 2 and more like a Savage Dragon tie-in that happens to feature the turtles.

OK now that I've finally watched all of Rise properly, I have to say the show really grew on me. :tmad:

It's still my least favorite of the four cartoons we had so far, but the show actually had some great eps as it progressed and some neat concepts. Like most people I had a complete turn around on Rise's Splinter, who like most I hated in his first few eps and then he turned out to be really well developed and one of the most likeable characters of the show. The finale really sold me on the series overall and really showed how much potential it had.

There were a lot of eps that were too silly for my tastes, and of course I wish it had been more action and less comedy focused, and the designs of the Turtles while not too bad could have been more traditional, it actually came across pretty well.

Powder you were right about this one. I quit watching Rise after the first 10 eps originally but now gave it a proper chance and watched all of Seasons 1 and 2 over the last week or so. Pretty fun show, if not my ideal series. I hope the movie brings in Krang or the Utroms finally.

Yeah, Rise isn't that bad. Has nothing to do with any old TMNT material and it was clearly going in the wrong direction, but it's not actually bad when you ignore the fact that it's part of the TMNT franchise. And even if it actually was bad, there is no way it's as offensively bad as PD or TNM.

[CyberCubed]

Would it be too cruel to add the Image series to this discussion? I mean it only lasted 23 issues and was only granted a resolution 20 years later because it was reprinted. And if financial failure isn't enough, I must admit that I never found the series all that engaging. Quite a lot of it feels less like a continuation of Volume 2 and more like a Savage Dragon tie-in that happens to feature the turtles.

Image was short but it fullfilled its purpose during 1997-2000 when Mirage wasn't publishing any comics. And Peter Laird unofficially acknowledged it when he named his next series "Volume 4" instead of Volume 3 because he acknowledged Image as that. Likewise a lot of elements of Image continued into the second wave of Tales like Leatherhead's Utrom friend Dr. X, Leaherhead going through bouts of losing his mind and becoming feral, and Karai's ambiguous truce with the Turtles in early Vol. 4.

Yeah, Rise isn't that bad. Has nothing to do with any old TMNT material and it was clearly going in the wrong direction, but it's not actually bad when you ignore the fact that it's part of the TMNT franchise. And even if it actually was bad, there is no way it's as offensively bad as PD or TNM.

Yeah it's a departure from standard TMNT show, but I think it was also too silly at times (even for this franchise) that took people out of it. If the whole show was written in the tone of the 3 part finale, it would have been better received overall. Besides that having watched the whole thing, I find it funny he whole show is pretty much based on Season 5 of the 4kids series, the Ninja Tribunal arc. They literally turned all of Season 5 of the 2k3 series into an entire show. Turtles with mystic weapons, an ancient demon Shredder, an underground city, etc.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Yeah, Rise isn't that bad. Has nothing to do with any old TMNT material and it was clearly going in the wrong direction, but it's not actually bad when you ignore the fact that it's part of the TMNT franchise.

It's rather strange to me why you think Rise isn't bad for those reasons yet the OT is.

[neatoman]

It's rather strange to me why you think Rise isn't bad for those reasons yet the OT is.

That isn't really my point. The big difference between Fred Wolf and Rise is that Rise has generally good animation, some good jokes and some basic understanding tension. Fred Wolf really has none of that, Fred Wolf is just a boring, ugly and unfunny piece of crap. The main reason people defend FW over Rise is mainly nostalgia but it pretty does what Rise does except much worse.

That is not to say either approach is a good idea. TMNT should not be about comedy, over-the-top vehicles, countless mutants, incompetent villains, etc. That just turns the franchise into a toy commercial and the characters lose what makes them compelling.

These are two different arguments to be had. Approach and excecution are not the same thing. You can have the wrong approach but still do it with passion. If you want a concrete example, I wouldn't want either show to be the primary source of inspiration for any TMNT material going forward but if I had to watch a random episode of Rise or a random episode of FW, I'd go for Rise because I would prefer decent pacing and a fight scene that isn't animated at 4fps.

Please understand that the arguments about the direction and end product are not the same.

[superstaff]

Would it be too cruel to add the Image series to this discussion? I mean it only lasted 23 issues and was only granted a resolution 20 years later because it was reprinted. And if financial failure isn't enough, I must admit that I never found the series all that engaging. Quite a lot of it feels less like a continuation of Volume 2 and more like a Savage Dragon tie-in that happens to feature the turtles.



Yeah, Rise isn't that bad. Has nothing to do with any old TMNT material and it was clearly going in the wrong direction, but it's not actually bad when you ignore the fact that it's part of the TMNT franchise. And even if it actually was bad, there is no way it's as offensively bad as PD or TNM.

I...really don't understand the sudden love people have for this show.

I've watched several episodes, including the multi-part finale. The show never seemed to outgrow its "LOL RANDOM" humor, and continually undercuts scenes with nonsense that's meant to be funny, and characters making wacky faces. Yes, they added in Shredder and other characters from the other incarnations, but I felt the show didn't do them any favors. Even as a strictly comedy, I feel like it failed on every front.

In the end, the show just felt like a Teen Titans Go rip-off with a coat of Ninja Turtles paint. People also seem to love the animation, and I see that cited as the main reason this show is a supposed masterpiece... Ugh. It's fluid, but it's used mostly to accentuate the characters making dumb expressions, so...I'm not really impressed with it.

[CyberCubed]

Yeah it's definitely not for everyone, and the humor was more miss than hit for me, but I feel like the creators/animators/writers were really having fun with it, and I really liked the better eps.

The 2012 Nick show mixed seriousness with humor a lot better, many eps that were intended to be serious didn't have much humor at all and of course it was also very action oriented (the 2012 show actually has the best choreographed fight scenes outside the 2k3 series in animation), so it's a different type of humor.

It is what it is. And as I said before, it's kinda funny how the main plot of Rise just seemed to be entirely lifted from the Ninja Tribunal arc of the 2k3 series. You can just watch Season 5 of 2k3 and see almost the same story with variations.

[srmff]

I agree with the it is what it is take. I can enjoy it for what it is. However, I would not want a future series to be like this one. Once I completed my binge watch, I did want to see more of it and it resulted in me finally wanting to see the Batman vs TMNT movie and get the 2012 seasons on DVD. I have to admit that I did enjoy this show but I wouldn't actively try to save the show like others are doing since I know that I would ultimately not want Rise to be the template for future shows.

I have noticed though that some Rise fans seem to love post about how the 2012 show is worse than Rise. It just comes across as Rise fans who desperately want they’re show to look good so instead of just praising it, they try to shoot down other versions of tmnt and point out their flaws. It sort of reminds me of how some shows can only feel like they've written a strong female character if she belittles the man she is working with like that Princess Leia cartoon where Han and Luke are made to look incompetent: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6xAcbqnaIsQ&ab_channel=StarWarsKids
Leia was fine as a strong enough character already without needing to make other characters look worse to make her look better in contrast.

I've seen lots of criticism for 2012 Splinter and how he was cold, controlling, abusive (definitely remember Rise Splinter smacking Leo, who calls himself Splinter's least favourite, twice regarding solving the city's rat problem and giving back chat about Splinter keeping secrets), never apologises (even though 2012 Splinter has) and is a worse teacher (Rise Splinter mainly just had them watch his movies). Rise Splinter did definitely improve but I wouldn't consider him a model parent by any means. Donnie was beyond excited to spend some time with Splinter in a father-son car competition. However Splinter had lied about his intent, which was to enter the Turtle Tank in a Y?kai demolition derby, and Donnie was genuinely upset and hurt by this deception. They're always so eager to get hugs from Splinter which would make it seem as if he's not very affectionate.

Others say that Rise April is better than 2012 April (have never really had strong feelings regarding April in any version). There's also criticism that the 2012 turtles are cold and hateful to each other. If you actually watched the show, they clearly don't hate each other and are often showing affection to each other. Even though they argue, it's obvious that they care a lot for each other. The Rise turtles could be jerks too such as Donnie giving his brothers gifts to change them with one being an electric collar. It doesn't actually bother me since it's mainly played for laughs but some Rise fans just completely ignore it.

Another criticism is that the characters never grew. They all had development, particularly Leo. The thing that annoys me about it though is that I can't think of any growth for the Rise turtles other than their skills. They're all pretty much the same by the end of the show. I understand that there were only 2 seasons but it just seems to like an odd argument for making Rise seem better. I understand old fans criticising the 2012 show and new shows but, with Rise, it feels like new fans of TMNT reading up and watching clips of 2012 to look for faults that they can criticise to make Rise look better.

[neatoman]

I...really don't understand the sudden love people have for this show.

I've watched several episodes, including the multi-part finale. The show never seemed to outgrow its "LOL RANDOM" humor, and continually undercuts scenes with nonsense that's meant to be funny, and characters making wacky faces. Yes, they added in Shredder and other characters from the other incarnations, but I felt the show didn't do them any favors. Even as a strictly comedy, I feel like it failed on every front.

In the end, the show just felt like a Teen Titans Go rip-off with a coat of Ninja Turtles paint. People also seem to love the animation, and I see that cited as the main reason this show is a supposed masterpiece... Ugh. It's fluid, but it's used mostly to accentuate the characters making dumb expressions, so...I'm not really impressed with it.

Well this particular thread is partially about how it stacks up to Platinum Dunes and the Next Mutation. Which isn't exactly fair, the Platinum Dunes movies suffer from obvious reshoots and stories that make no sense, while Next Mutation is literally incomprehensible due to it's horrible sound design and editing.

It's not exactly fair to say Rise is bad because the humor undercut the drama and then shove it into the same category as the straight up unwatchable Next Mutation.

I don't "love" Rise, I just don't hate it or even really dislike it (I get the feeling few people get what I'm trying to convey about it). It's just not bad in the same demonstrable way that TNM, PD, FW or III is. It's certainly not the right direction for the TMNT franchise, not what I expect or want. But I can't really think of that many blatant animation errors, plotholes, bad pacing, poor sound editing or really that many flaws that would be flaws outside of TMNT.

[sleeplessknight]

https://pm1.narvii.com/6670/5417b83c8058d39073fbed93cf1a2eb768f490b9_00.jpg

[Powder]

OK now that I've finally watched all of Rise properly, I have to say the show really grew on me. :tmad:

It's still my least favorite of the four cartoons we had so far, but the show actually had some great eps as it progressed and some neat concepts. Like most people I had a complete turn around on Rise's Splinter, who like most I hated in his first few eps and then he turned out to be really well developed and one of the most likeable characters of the show. The finale really sold me on the series overall and really showed how much potential it had.

There were a lot of eps that were too silly for my tastes, and of course I wish it had been more action and less comedy focused, and the designs of the Turtles while not too bad could have been more traditional, it actually came across pretty well.

Powder you were right about this one. I quit watching Rise after the first 10 eps originally but now gave it a proper chance and watched all of Seasons 1 and 2 over the last week or so. Pretty fun show, if not my ideal series. I hope the movie brings in Krang or the Utroms finally.

Glad to hear, Cubed. Happy to hear you, or any fan, for that matter, gave it a proper chance & found some things to enjoy.

[Cake-Monster85]

This is my first post! And I'll just chime in to say, I love all things TMNT.

I don't think the live action TMNT stuff (outside of the 90s films) ever worked very well, but I still enjoy them.

[Dejablue]

I actually liked Platinum Dunes for the most part.

And Rise is okay.

I couldn't get through 3 episodes of Next Mutation without Phelous.

[mrmaczaps]

I voted TNM. Honestly heard horror stories about it but then watched it on Netflix. Its horrid but not Bay/Rise horrid. ????*??

[Jephael]

I never really cared for Next Mutation, even back when it originally aired. I felt the direction it went in was weird and the whole idea of a fifth turtle who had mutated with them and had grown up separated from the main four was kinda dumb. Granted they gave Mondo Gecko a similar origin story in the original cartoon, but atleast it made more sense to have some random lizard in the sewers, not a female turtle.

While Rise took the silly aspect to extremes, I rather enjoyed Splinter's backstory with this show and the idea of him once having once been a famous actor ala Bruce Lee. I feel that plotline could take things into interesting places if given to the right person. Plus I have to admit, I rather grew fond of the catchphrase "HOT SOUP!!!" that's another element I'd love to see carried over to a different iteration.

[Rooish]

PD on the other hand I also don't think they're that bad, are they great interpretations? No but they have some good elements, I personally think they got the "family" aspect better than many other versions of the turtles and despite the horrible designs the movie made them work. They're a bit boring but I think overall they're much better than say TMNT 3 and more engaging to watch than TMNT 2007. Are the PD movies mediocre? Sure however are they the worst thing to happen to the turtles? Probably not.

I don't really disagree, some parts were atrocious but they did get the family vibe down and the humour was pretty funny.

I can't really tolerate Next Mutation. I keep trying but the villains are intolerable.

And as for Rise... it's a fun show in its own right, and there is actually some character development, but it's not... the same characters that are developing. The Rise team is entirely different characters than we know. It's not really a TMNT show.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

The next mutation is probably my favorite out of these 3. It's not very likeable though and very boring. The bay movies are just straight up bad but the 2nd one had some likeable qualities like including bebop and rocksteady. I liked rise the least. It was a straight up abomination and I am glad that it got cancelled. The personalities of the turtles were all the same, Raphael should not be the leader, and splinter shouldn't be portrayed as an idiot.

[slashpieturtlemix]

The scary thing is I actually liked all three :tlol:

[Rabbit Kraken Zeo]

Next Mutation might be the worst of them all however I was never really interested in rise of the ninja turtles as it appeared to be very uninteresting on the basis of animation and character development from just the outside of what i would see. The show looks awful just by presentation standards. I think i remember seeing the trailer; and the first episode just "****sighs****" me type feeling in reaction. BOTH I'd say are failures.

Maybe i could give Rise a chance i just don't want too honestly.

[snake]

The tiny bit of Rise I’ve seen was inventive and fresh, with smooth animation. I definitely have to watch the rest one day.