Jon Watts to direct MCU Fantastic Four film [Archive]

Leo656

12-11-2020, 01:09 AM

I remain unconvinced that there are a huge number of people salivating over the Fantastic Four.

To most of the movie-going audience, they're just a corny rip-off of The Incredibles. Yes, I know that's backwards. But that's how most of the people who go to see these movies sees the situation.

I mean, let's be real... aside from their Dr. Doom being thoroughly "meh", the very first F4 movie was pretty spot-on. I mean, that's the story, those are the characters. It was about as good as anyone can ever do with that material and those characters, without changing it so much it becomes something else. It wasn't perfect, but it more or less was. Doom aside, it's about as "straight" of an adaptation as there's ever been done. It's ALMOST 1:1 with the comics.

....And in spite of all that it's STILL one of the f*cking worst comic book movies I've ever seen in my life. Second one was very, very, very slightly better in a few ways but also worse in others. The reboot... well, we see what they did there. That was never gonna be any good.

The Fantastic 4 is f*cking corny. I'm sorry, I know they have their fans. Why, I don't know. I just don't think the material is there to make a really "good" movie out of. It's a dumb premise. The only reason to even do them is to introduce Dr. Doom and Galactus into the MCU. Those are top-tier villains. The F4 themselves are f*cking C-listers, though. They are absolutely no one ever's favorite super-hero team. Human Torch is kinda cool. Reed Richards is comics' second (or third) most interesting Stretchy Guy, and you know you suck when Plastic Man is better than you are. Thing is kinda alright, but he's just a "Does his dick look like the rest of him?" punchline to most people. Sue is hot, but she's goddamn useless.

I know Duckie's gonna yell at me, like she does every single time I say this stuff. :trazz: But I don't care. The F4 are some of Marvel's least-interesting characters of all time. I don't think they've ever had one single "iconic" story outside of their origin, and their villains are the only interesting thing about them. Everybody loves Doom, everybody loves Galactus... nobody "loves" the Fantastic 4. They tolerate them, so that they can have Doom and Galactus. That's all it is.

I mean, we'll see. They've had three at-bats and they've struck out three straight times as far as making an F4 movie that wasn't lousy. Disney might have "The Midas Touch" but you'd have to be some kinda warlock to make the F4 not-corny in a movie setting.

Then again, I think ALL the MCU movies are kinda f*cking corny so maybe they're perfect for this, I'unno. :lol:

ZariusTwo

12-11-2020, 03:00 AM

I need to see if there's been any updates to the "Fantastic Four: Great American Novel" website. That guy's fountain of knowledge and trying to weave a whole tapestry of Marvel history around how much the FF's story meant to it was insane.

I love the characters, and even Slott, who I normally despise, is doing a decent job with them at the moment in the comics, it's arguably his best work since his early days on Amazing Spider-Man, and infinitely better than his Iron Man 2020 dross.

However, it's almost impossible to put together a decent movie or animated series featuring them. Their problem is they function so well as a family that any attempt at drama with them feels forced and unnecessary, and you don't actually want to see them in too much trouble

I suppose given the low key stakes of almost everything in the MCU (Russo Brother movies as the exception), they fit right in though.

Galactus

12-11-2020, 11:31 AM

Definitely give it a chance but I think Watt's strengths will be in the family aspect but I've seen little in his Spider-Man movies to show he can successfully pull off the grand scale action the FF needs but we'll see.

It's only recently that I got around to watching Josh Trank's 'dark' FF movie. It was just as horrible as expected but the idea of giving them an edge wasn't wrong. In the early comics the Thing is supposed to truly scary and deeply resentful of Reed's arrogance turning him into a monster and Johnny was a true rebel without a cause. I think showing that would be great before settling into to being a big rocky teddy bear and the surrogate brother that likes to tease him.

As for Reed he's one of the most important characters in the entire Marvel Universe. Throughout the 60s and 70s if ever there was any gathering of heroes he was the one that was naturally picked to lead. Throughout most of the Lee/Kirby run he's just as much a man of action as lab guy. He is partially based on Doc Savage and he should always be like an intrepid explorer in 50s pop culture. Yeah his stretchy powers look silly in live action and there's little you can do not make it look at least a little silly but his main weapon is his mind.

Sumac

12-11-2020, 07:18 PM

FF4 is too "primitive" and goody-goody for its own good.
It is hard to make something serious out of them, but we'll see. If Marvel was able to make Guardians of Galaxy to be good, so I assume they have chops to make even FF4 good.

Galactus

12-11-2020, 07:37 PM

How is the FF too goody-goody? They were the first comic book super hero team with interpersonal issues and real world problems. You can argue that other Marvel properties teams and expanded on this and made the FF seem tame by comparison but it all started with the FF.

I suspect that the movie wont go for the more edgy version of the characters as depicted in the early issues and go for more of a the light family sitcom version the characters settled into eventually. That's a valid take and one that even the 2000s movies got right. I expect the MCU movies will be similar but much better depiction of the villains.

I'm not sure what is primitive about them either. There is a reason why most of Marvel's big bads started off as FF villains.

Leo656

12-11-2020, 07:43 PM

This is my all-time favorite Fantastic 4 story, no question:

https://s3.crackedcdn.com/phpimages/article/4/3/5/51435.jpg?v=1

Sumac

12-12-2020, 03:57 AM

sdp

12-12-2020, 09:06 AM

The comics have always loved the Fantastic 4, they somehow write them in such ways that despite not looking as interesting at first sight they had the most awesome stories. I don't know if the general audience can change their minds and if not left with great writers F4 might just seem like a generic super hero team but they're more than that, they're the explorers of the Marvel Universe.
Counting they're being introduced late into the game I think they'll have things difficult for them, I also don't think Antman will ever be as big as if he had been in phase 1, I mean Hawkguy is getting more love than Antman and that's sad.

Galactus

12-12-2020, 09:26 PM

My knowledge of FF4 comes mainly from cartoon and movies, so maybe in the comic books they are more nuanced.

My impressions was that they are pretty boring and their powers are kind of generic.

I think it's kinda like Superman. That character came and popularised almost everything about the superhero genre but it was expanded on by literally every other superhero. Decades on Supes looks plain and generic by comparison.

Fantastic Four is basically the same deal. The solified a lot of the formula which made Marvel's characters so successful. The lead characters arrogance causing something bad to happen and they feel a sense of responsibility, a gruff but noble monster, teenage angst and real world issues as a backdrop. It was all very fresh and new but then came the Hulk and Spider-Man and Wolverine and the X-Men and s on who did a lot of these things too arguably better.

Still FF operate on a grander scale than most of those characters hence why their villains and mythos gets absorbed into the wider Marvel Universe. Heck a lot of their characters have had a huge presence in the MCU even without the FF themselves. Watchers, Skrulls, Ronan the Accuser

The comics have always loved the Fantastic 4, they somehow write them in such ways that despite not looking as interesting at first sight they had the most awesome stories. I don't know if the general audience can change their minds and if not left with great writers F4 might just seem like a generic super hero team but they're more than that, they're the explorers of the Marvel Universe.
Counting they're being introduced late into the game I think they'll have things difficult for them, I also don't think Antman will ever be as big as if he had been in phase 1, I mean Hawkguy is getting more love than Antman and that's sad.

Do them 'right' and I don't think it doesn't matters when they debut.

I think they are uncomfortably caught in between what their big fans want. A lot of of them thing they should be very old school super heroics to the point they want Brad Bird to make an animated movie but the moment that happens they complain it's too camp and cheesy and not respecting the characters enough.

Personally I think the '05 movie got the characters right enough but I'd prefer they had a bit more edge to them this time around. Reed should feel slightly more guilt and sense of responsibility for ruining his friends lives and Ben should be a bit resentful that he's become a monster. I doubt that's the route they'll go, their characterisation will probably be more inline with the previous movies but I don't think they'll shy away from the big scale action the series requires...like Doom wont be an evil business man or Galactus or cloud out of fear the audience wont get it.

I need to see if there's been any updates to the "Fantastic Four: Great American Novel" website. That guy's fountain of knowledge and trying to weave a whole tapestry of Marvel history around how much the FF's story meant to it was insane.

I actually just checked that site again since this news. He makes a few interesting points but he's absolutely insane with ideas like Reed being a skrull or Skrull milk being the source of most Marvel super heroes powers Sue being Johnny's mother etc is some perfect madness.

Leo656

12-12-2020, 09:39 PM

I mean, that was kinda my earlier point, though. Like jokes aside the 2005 movie mostly "got them right" and it was still terrible, partly because it was so damn cornball. Sure, they got Doom wrong, but I doubt that would have "saved" the movie even if they'd gotten him right. You could still drown your nachos in all that cheese.

But like, you kinda can't do it any differently or it's not even them anymore. And then Fant4stic tried to "give them an edge" and that was only one of a hundred reasons why THAT movie was also terrible from a different direction.

I kinda feel like a person's hope for the potential of an F4 movie has a lot to do with how tolerant they are of "funny" super-hero movies. And I, personally, just haaaaaaaaaaaate that stuff. But I feel like you kinda can't even do the Fantastic 4 without making it "dumb". So what might be authentic to the characters and premise would by definition still be anathema to a "good movie".

Galactus

12-12-2020, 10:07 PM

The 2000s movies mostly got the four right but there was still things they could have done to make them better. Still I don't think the characterisation of the FF themselves was the problem.

I empathise somewhat with the studios predicament. A super villain that is also the monarch of a fictional country might have seemed a bit too 'out there' for an audience still getting used to super hero movies so the evil business man angle is understandable as was linking his origin to FF themselves. Still when he became Doctor Doom he should have been a lot more grandiose and their final battle should have been much bigger. For a comic property that is supposed to be about big scale action a low stakes brawl in a street is a huge let down. There was no big pay off even for the turn your brain off and just enjoy it crowd.

Same with the sequel. Most of the stuff in that movie is forgivable except for the whole Galactus as a cloud crap. Again I get they thought that a giant guy with a goofy helmet may be a bit too much for audiences back then but a cloud???. That's the best they could do?

Andrew NDB

12-12-2020, 10:19 PM

I've never really read any Fantastic Four comics, though I've heard from enough people who do whose opinions I value that I believe there's something to them. Now, I actually enjoyed the first Fantastic Four movie with Chris Evans and all, for the most part. Taking that sort of family/fun vibe but utilizing a comic book accurate Dr. Doom and Galactus (instead of an effete pretty boy and a cloud)? I mean, I could see that being pretty awesome. Some people have suggested the "hook" this time could be that it's a "family out of time"... as in, a family from the 1950s accidentally time-travels to the 2020s and becomes the Fantastic Four as we know them and I could definitely see that working.

Just please, please... no checkboxes with "this is the gay/lesbian one, this is the black one, this is the genderqueer one" stuff. We know who the Fantastic Four are and that isn't them.

Galactus

12-14-2020, 07:15 PM

Some people have suggested the "hook" this time could be that it's a "family out of time"... as in, a family from the 1950s accidentally time-travels to the 2020s and becomes the Fantastic Four as we know them and I could definitely see that working.

I've heard that a lot. It's an interesting idea but it mostly seems like a work around to have them as Marvel's "first family" when I don't think it's important. They could be the first of a new wave of heroes of the MCU.

The other reason is they can keep the more 60s themes which I'm not sure is a big deal to keep. Do people want to see Reed being quaintly sexist and Sue being a good girlfriend/wife? Also with a renewed interest in space travel their origin and status as explorers fits in just as well in contemporary times.

Just please, please... no checkboxes with "this is the gay/lesbian one, this is the black one, this is the genderqueer one" stuff. We know who the Fantastic Four are and that isn't them.

C'mon we all know the deal with Johnny and his womanising being a cover, right? I kid of course.

In all seriousness the MCU has never actually altered the race/ethnicity/gender/sexuality of any of the characters that matter other than Nick Fury and that was based on the Ultimate version which was already black and it's debatable whether he's considered to be major draw so I wouldn't worry too much about the core four.

Then again I remember the meltdowns people had over Latina Jessica Alba playing Sue Storm but conveniently saying nothing about Ben Grimm's actor not being Jewish.

Autbot_Benz

07-23-2022, 08:10 PM

Jon Watts is no longer directing and it will Start Phase 6 the multiverse saga

Nov 8 2024

Andrew NDB

07-23-2022, 08:36 PM

Hmf. No Galactus for a while then. And not 1 X-Men movie for the next 3 years? Wtf?

Leo656

07-23-2022, 09:54 PM

At what point did they convince you that any of that was in fact upcoming? Or were you just guessing, "Yeah, it HAS to be that"?

Because the last thing I heard about X-Men was that Disney was still trying to figure out between Xavier and Magneto which one was gonna be the black one, and if both of were gonna be gay or just one of 'em.

If you're impatient, there's your hang-up as to Why it's gonna take so long. Write 'em an angry letter, I would.

I will also for the 500th time ask out loud "Who actually gives a sh*t about the Fantastic 4?" They had three bad movies, we need more? Eh.

I know everybody wants Dr. Doom and he's kinda wedded to the Fantastic 4, but if we can have Spider-Man without Uncle Ben I think we can just admit the Fantastic 4 suck and just pretend for the sake of the movies that Doom is someone else's villain entirely.

Coola Yagami

07-23-2022, 10:06 PM

Autbot_Benz

07-23-2022, 10:36 PM

Hmf. No Galactus for a while then. And not 1 X-Men movie for the next 3 years? Wtf?

There are still 8 unknown Projects for Phase 6 so Deadpool and X-men could show up there

Autbot_Benz

10-11-2022, 02:23 PM

Do to Blade being delayed

Fantastic Four drops 11/8/24 for 2/14/25

https://twitter.com/BrandonDavisBD/status/1579904137306963968

Andrew NDB

02-01-2023, 08:05 PM

Dev Patel might be Reed Richards.

https://comicbookmovie.com/fantastic-four/fantastic-four-latest-casting-rumor-points-to-dev-patel-being-top-choice-to-play-reed-richards-a200181#gs.a6ca.ouiuay

Coola Yagami

02-01-2023, 10:22 PM

Dev Patel might be Reed Richards.

https://comicbookmovie.com/fantastic-four/fantastic-four-latest-casting-rumor-points-to-dev-patel-being-top-choice-to-play-reed-richards-a200181#gs.a6ca.ouiuay

Of course.... cause there weren't any white people that looked like Reed available.

Zulithe

02-02-2023, 03:30 AM

What happened to the Jon Watts that made Cop Car? I want that version of Jon Watts back.

We saw what his version of Spider-Man was like, so we can expect the same for FF. You have characters named MJ and Flash Thompson running around who have nothing at all in common with the classic comic versions, they are just piggy backing on the name recognition.

No way in hell the MCU is going to allow an all-white family of super heroes in today's climate. But meanwhile in Wakanda...

Andrew NDB

02-02-2023, 03:39 AM

I'll say this: whatever they do to the Fantastic 4 next should lay it out how the X-Men universe is going to go.

Andrew NDB

05-23-2023, 02:35 PM

Sumac

05-23-2023, 05:47 PM

Said to be all about Sue Storm, female-driven.

https://cosmicbook.news/emma-stone-turns-down-marvel-fantastic-four-all-about-sue-storm?fbclid=IwAR2_Qj403sbTP-QVhwgcA9-OU2rtaiVVXpjalSzz8edYUs4ZwQSOklCOQPc
M-she-U reigns supreme...and fails like a sack of stones to the bottom.
Well, maybe its failure finally open eyes of corporates that pandering to woke trash is courting death (of their money).

Galactus

05-24-2023, 08:15 PM

What happened to the Jon Watts that made Cop Car? I want that version of Jon Watts back..

Watts hasn't been involved in this movie for some time. We don't know who is going to direct FF.

M-she-U reigns supreme...and fails like a sack of stones to the bottom.
Well, maybe its failure finally open eyes of corporates that pandering to woke trash is courting death (of their money).

Ah yes. The M-she-U with a whopping 3 out of 32 movies being female led. How are men possibly going to survive. Also how will Disney/Marvel survive with it's string of billion or close to billion dollar movies.

Sumac

05-25-2023, 05:40 AM

Ah yes. The M-she-U with a whopping 3 out of 32 movies being female led. How are men possibly going to survive. Also how will Disney/Marvel survive with it's string of billion or close to billion dollar movies.
Stop inhaling copium, zealot. M-she-U is no longer a juggernaut it once was. If that is still not obvious - you have problems with comprehending reality. Almost every project of theirs makes less money than the last, not to mention critical reception.

Also, if you can't get through your thick skull, that movie not necessarily should have nominal female protagonist to sabotage its male lead - you are even slower than a victory of communism.

ZariusTwo

05-25-2023, 10:21 AM

Ah yes. The M-she-U with a whopping 3 out of 32 movies being female led. How are men possibly going to survive. Also how will Disney/Marvel survive with it's string of billion or close to billion dollar movies.

The same Disney that is laying off millions of employers nationally and internationally? That Disney?:lol:

Muppet.

IMJ

05-25-2023, 10:41 AM

Ah yes. The M-she-U with a whopping 3 out of 32 movies being female led. How are men possibly going to survive. Also how will Disney/Marvel survive with it's string of billion or close to billion dollar movies.

I don't think that the catchphrase "M-SHE-U" is entirely about "volume of product" as much as it is about rage-bait-messaging, replacing male characters, and cramming dramatic-feminism down people's throats in the content they did produce.

Ant-Man had a gender-swapped Ghost which was made worse because they chose to make her a sympathetic character for the "plight of women". That character is ruined on screen forever for anyone who knows the ins and outs of the character in-print. The Ghost is so compelling that he could have become a household name Marvel villain the way that Iron Man and Thanos are now, as-if they were always popular.

We had the Avengers: Endgame scene with the clown car of awkwardly grouped all-girl-superheroes running into the battle like they were Titans from Attack On Titan, which was forced and awful.

Captain Marvel was awful. And it's star is an incredibly unlikable person, lecturing men and showing scenes in the movie as-if the natural state of men was to be awful to women.

WandaVision was fine - mostly on it's unique premise and infinite attractiveness and overall likeability of it's star.

She-Hulk.... was..... a truly warped version of the things that made the John Byrne comic so good.

Ms. Marvel appropriated the Quantum Bands of a fan-favorite blonde-haired, blue-eyed character but called them the "nega bands" instead, hoping that everyone would overlook it.

Black Widow was a cartoon-like disaster that bordered on parody. Ray Winston's character direction at the end of the movie was as if it was designed by every cliched that a high school purple hair assumes about the world because she was bullied in school at some point. It was ridiculous. Taskmaster was irredeemably changed for film and that's a character with a pretty large following as far as villains go.

The Eternals gender and race swapped Makkari for their full-on agenda movie of nonsense.

Thor Love and Thunder. Seriously? "But Jane became Thor in the books! DURP!" :roll: I don't even want to get started on that mess, and I love Portman's Jane.

Black Panther: Wakanda Forever. No M-SHE-U, huh? :roll:

The Marvels has one good thing going for it - the Photon actress who is gorgeous and was great in WandaVision. But I haven't seen anyone projecting that it is going to do well.

Galactus

05-25-2023, 10:51 AM

Stop inhaling copium, zealot. M-she-U is no longer a juggernaut it once was. If that is still not obvious - you have problems with comprehending reality. Almost every project of theirs makes less money than the last, not to mention critical reception.

Also, if you can't get through your thick skull, that movie not necessarily should have nominal female protagonist to sabotage its male lead - you are even slower than a victory of communism.

If we go by the officially recognised 'phases' of the MCU then Phase 4 was their second most profitable phase after the previous one. Forgive me if don't think only slightly coming in second to their commercial peak is a sign the sky is falling.

Also I'm curious which particular MCU movies sabotaged their male leads in order to boost up women?

The same Disney that is laying off millions of employers nationally and internationally? That Disney?:lol:

Muppet.

The same Disney that is experiencing significantly increased profits these last few years?

I'm not even caping for them. Laying off workers when you're getting record profits is a crappy thing to do but par of the course for a corporation that just wants to earn more money when they are already impossibly wealthy. Sadly it's not a sign that the company is failing.

ZariusTwo

05-26-2023, 01:42 AM

qntP8DqDbY8

Sabacooza

05-26-2023, 09:20 AM

qntP8DqDbY8 Truth.

Anybody that thinks Disney is doing good just isn't paying attention. Disney is so far in the red it's not even funny and they have no one to blame but themselves for their idiotic decision to wage war against the fans/customers.

Galactus

05-26-2023, 12:29 PM

I don't think that the catchphrase "M-SHE-U" is entirely about "volume of product" as much as it is about rage-bait-messaging, replacing male characters, and cramming dramatic-feminism down people's throats in the content they did produce.

We had the Avengers: Endgame scene with the clown car of awkwardly grouped all-girl-superheroes running into the battle like they were Titans from Attack On Titan, which was forced and awful...

So the idea that Marvel Studios is sabotaging their male characters largely comes down to them making (what you feel) are bad movies with female protagonists? If anything that sounds more like they are sabotaging their female characters.

Beyond that I don't really get your arguments. The whole Jane Foster Thor saga was one of the best selling books Marvel Comics had during that era. Outselling the Thor run starring Odinson that immediately preceded it which at the time was hyped as a rare sales success for the character. It was a no brainer decision to adapt that story into film. Regardless of the quality of the final product the movie was a lot kinder to it's male protagonist than the comic version. Odinson is still the main character, he isn't replaced by Jane or rendered unworthy.

As for Wakanda Forever...you do realise Chadwick Boseman died. Unless you're suggesting that Disney secretly had him killed to promote Letitia Wright to the lead role I don't see how he was sabotaged. Also how many times has T'challa stood down or been deposed in the comics and Shuri takes over as Black Panther? It just makes sense to have her step into the lead role.

I don't know if you've read classic Ms Marvel comics but she was created to be a feminist superhero. If anything modern depictions of Carol Danvers (including the movie version) portray her as much less militant in her feminism. I don't understand who she was supposed to be sabotaging simply by starring in a movie. As something of an aside the movie made over a billion dollars and the comics actually got an uptick in sales after the movie so clearly some people liked it. Brie Larsen also still gets work in Hollywood outside of the MCU so she can't be that unpopular either.

We don't know how The Marvels is going to do but it's response from regular people has been mostly positive. Of course it's got the usual angry right wing youtubers up in arms about the movie and how this will be the one to finally kill off Marvel but I notice a few prominent ones are laying off the movie and saying things like "don't hate me but this one doesn't look so woke to me". I imagine they are hedging their bets after ranting for months about how woke the Super Mario Bros movie was and predicting it would flop only to have to hurriedly change tactics and portray it as anti-woke after the it broke records and couldn't spin it as a failure.

I also don't know if you read modern Eternal comics but like a lot of Marvel's god-like pantheon they are in a constant cycle of death and rebirth and with the Eternals they come back different each time. Makkari has been a woman for some time. Even if the character being gender swapped was purely a movie thing I don't see how that sabotaged any of the male characters. I don't recall her being portrayed as better than the male Eternals.

Similarly I don't see how that sequence were the female heroes team up sabotages the male heroes. I'll never get why this was such a big deal, the whole thing was less 20 seconds. You'd think it was them that defeated Thanos.

Truth.

Anybody that thinks Disney is doing good just isn't paying attention. Disney is so far in the red it's not even funny and they have no one to blame but themselves for their idiotic decision to wage war against the fans/customers.

Anyone who thinks Disney is in the red is not only not paying attention but living in bizarro world. The last time this came up I posted a bunch of links which showed that Disney's profits are up these past two years. I'd bust them out again if I felt people on this board weren't so far down the rabbit hole that they could accept simple facts.

It's incredibly stupid that idiots have been convinced that the CEOs of one of the biggest corporations in the world are not only secret communists and are also deliberately killing their company with woke products to accomplish...well no one can tell me what they think the end goal of this dastardly plan is.

IMJ

05-26-2023, 01:34 PM

So the idea that Marvel Studios is sabotaging their male characters largely comes down to them making (what you feel) are bad movies with female protagonists?

No. The idea that Marvel is pushing an agenda at the expense of their male characters is factual happening and the fact that they are doing it so strongly that even the quality of movies are suffering is evidence enough.

Marvel has pushed the "M-She-U" to an extreme - so much that their output has a variety of examples that are so poorly done and so indicative of the blue-hair headspace that the output borders on parody rather than commentary. And almost every example I cited supports that.

The reason you always twist meaning or incorporate the "your opinion is...." defense is simply so you don't have to address the actual commentary head-on, otherwise you'd have to lie about it - i.e. "No, Ray Winston's character in Black Widow was not indicative of agenda and nowhere in the movie did I find him to be so irrelevant and cliche that he was more parody than foolish, liberal commentary." But you don't even do that.

Andrew NDB

05-26-2023, 01:38 PM

Take Doctor Strange 2. It exists solely to introduce Captain Two Moms so they can set up her movie(s) or whatever they have planned there for her. There is no character arc for Doctor Strange in it whatsoever.

Look at Thor 4. There's barely anything for Thor himself in it, as it mostly exists to showcase the female Thor, and then give Thor a daughter at the end of it for an encore.

Ant-Man 3. It's mostly there to showcase Cassie stepping into the suit and learning the ropes.

IMJ

05-26-2023, 01:46 PM

So the idea that Marvel Studios is sabotaging their male characters largely comes down to them making (what you feel) are bad movies with female protagonists? If anything that sounds more like they are sabotaging their female characters.

No. The idea that Marvel is pushing an agenda at the expense of their male characters is factual happening and the fact that they are doing it so strongly that even the quality of movies are suffering is evidence enough.

Marvel has pushed the "M-She-U" to an extreme - so much that their output has a variety of examples that are so poorly done and so indicative of the blue-hair headspace that the output borders on parody rather than commentary. And almost every example I cited supports that.

The reason you always twist meaning or incorporate the "your opinion is...." defense is simply so you don't have to address the actual commentary head-on, otherwise you'd have to lie about it - i.e. "No, Ray Winston's character in Black Widow was not indicative of agenda and nowhere in the movie did I find him to be so irrelevant and cliche that he was more parody than foolish, liberal commentary." But you don't even do that.

Galactus

05-26-2023, 03:22 PM

Take Doctor Strange 2. It exists solely to introduce Captain Two Moms so they can set up her movie(s) or whatever they have planned there for her. There is no character arc for Doctor Strange in it whatsoever.

The whole movie was about how Strange was unhappy with his solitary life which of course sets him up him getting romantically involved with Clea (Charlize Theron's character from the post credit scene and main love interest from the comics).

Another big character arc is Strange learning to value life as more than just a math exercise. Infinity War, No Way Home and all the various other Strange's from Multiverse of Madness are willing to sacrifice people for what he sees as the greater good. The movie climaxes with Strange trusting America can handle herself were previously he would have killed her than run the risk Wanda stealing her power.

Obviously it sets up a Young Avengers tv series or movie down the line but no one had a problem with Civil War setting up MCU Spider-man and this movie integrated America in the story better than the Russos were able to with Peter Parker.

Look at Thor 4. There's barely anything for Thor himself in it, as it mostly exists to showcase the female Thor, and then give Thor a daughter at the end of it for an encore.

Love & Thunder is a strange one because it's very much a send off for Thor (which was apparently Waititi's intention) in which case giving him a daughter makes sense but then sets up a follow up were he'll fight Hercules.

The whole movie is about his character arc though. Similar to Strange the whole point of Thor 4 was that he was alone. All of his closest family and friends were dead and not having a purpose. Hence why it ends it ends with him getting a new family to care for. I assume wherever Thor shows up to fight Hercules he'll leave Love with her Uncle Korg. Sadly that may not happen with Hemsworth's health issues.

Ant-Man 3. It's mostly there to showcase Cassie stepping into the suit and learning the ropes.

That was definitely a theme of the movie but is that a bad thing? The main character arc of his previous movies was maintaining a relationship with his daughter so surely it's important to see what their relationship with her now she's suddenly a teenager. It's one of the few things carried over from the previous Ant-Man since it seems more intent on pushing Kang as the next big bad. That was what the movie was mostly about.

No. The idea that Marvel is pushing an agenda at the expense of their male characters is factual happening and the fact that they are doing it so strongly that even the quality of movies are suffering is evidence enough.

Marvel has pushed the "M-She-U" to an extreme - so much that their output has a variety of examples that are so poorly done and so indicative of the blue-hair headspace that the output borders on parody rather than commentary. And almost every example I cited supports that.

The reason you always twist meaning or incorporate the "your opinion is...." defense is simply so you don't have to address the actual commentary head-on, otherwise you'd have to lie about it - i.e. "No, Ray Winston's character in Black Widow was not indicative of agenda and nowhere in the movie did I find him to be so irrelevant and cliche that he was more parody than foolish, liberal commentary." But you don't even do that.

Whether a piece of art is good or bad is a matter of opinion. Clearly normies liked things like Captain Marvel and Black Panther despite politically motivated grifters promoting the idea that everyone hated them. Most people loved Endgame and didn't spend their time obsessing over a small segment were a few women were on camera at the same time.

But let's say you're right about Marvel/Disney's agenda again I ask why would a mega corporation be deliberately tanking their most valuable IPs? Surely someone can give me answer that doesn't involve the Jews or the lizard people.

Andrew NDB

05-26-2023, 03:57 PM

The whole movie was about how Strange was unhappy with his solitary life which of course sets him up him getting romantically involved with Clea (Charlize Theron's character from the post credit scene and main love interest from the comics).

An after-credits setup for something that may or may not happen in a future film isn't a character arc. It isn't anything at all.

Love & Thunder is a strange one because it's very much a send off for Thor (which was apparently Waititi's intention) in which case giving him a daughter makes sense but then sets up a follow up were he'll fight Hercules.

You got "sendoff for Thor" from the movie? I got "random Taika Waitiki sh** going on and Thor will probably train his daughter in the next movie."

But let's say you're right about Marvel/Disney's agenda again I ask why would a mega corporation be deliberately tanking their most valuable IPs? Surely someone can give me answer that doesn't involve the Jews or the lizard people.

Deliberately tanking? It's not really that black and white. Certainly the hope is that one day, these kinds of movies will be super successful because that will be what people will want. Taking a few punches along the way is a small price to pay in changing audience's worldview in and through entertainment, in their eyes. Which is a much broader agenda. Shifting away from masculine stoic men, destroying all norms so that everything is morally equivalent, portraying capitalism as "oh capitalism? of course that's bad/evil" so that gets plugged into brains early on, and so on and so on as we march toward Liberal Utopia. One movie and Disney+ series at a time.

You know, you see something once, it's obvious and out of place. You see it again, it's a little less noticeable. Three or four times, you're used to it now. By the twentieth time, it becomes to be a bit odd if it isn't there.

Coola Yagami

05-26-2023, 04:54 PM

But let's say you're right about Marvel/Disney's agenda again I ask why would a mega corporation be deliberately tanking their most valuable IPs? Surely someone can give me answer that doesn't involve the Jews or the lizard people.

I don't think it's 'deliberately taking their IPs' but moreso they expected everyone to love it and either being too oblivious or too stubborn to care if anyone actually did and continuing to do it anyway.

Obviously a lot of people didn't like the changes post End Game.

Galactus

05-26-2023, 05:37 PM

An after-credits setup for something that may or may not happen in a future film isn't a character arc. It isn't anything at all.

You don't think there is going to be a Doctor Strange 3? You don't think they have got Charlize Theron already contractually locked in place for it?

The whole movie is about letting go of his past love that he never got over. The guy repairs his watch at the end as a visual clue that he's ready to move on. It's not exactly subtle.

You may not find Strange's character arcs in the movie particularly interesting or compelling but they existed, they were the main themes of the movie. It wasn't just a vehicle another Young Avenger.

You got "sendoff for Thor" from the movie? I got "random Taika Waitiki sh** going on and Thor will probably train his daughter in the next movie."

Yeah I got "sendoff for Thor" from the movie then Waititi confirmed it too. We know the after credit scene setting more Thor was tacked on by Marvel Studios. Like I said with Hemsworth's health issues he may not want to do more Marvel movies and even if he's contractually obligated I'm sure they realise it would look bad to force a sick man to work against his will. However if he does return in say Avengers 5 I doubt it will feature his daughter in any meaningful capacity.

Almost all of the new young faces that have popped up in recent Marvel Projects are all members of the Young Avengers (Marvel's 2000s attempt at a Teen Titans). Clearly there is some TV series or movie in the works were they all team up. The difference is that Thor's daughter is an original character. Not that the MCU is averse to original characters playing a prominent role in their movies (Hope Van Dyne) but I doubt that's their intention. The roster already looks pretty full despite some key members yet to debut.

Deliberately tanking? It's not really that black and white. Certainly the hope is that one day, these kinds of movies will be super successful because that will be what people will want. Taking a few punches along the way is a small price to pay in changing audience's worldview in and through entertainment, in their eyes. Which is a much broader agenda. Shifting away from masculine stoic men, destroying all norms so that everything is morally equivalent, portraying capitalism as "oh capitalism? of course that's bad/evil" so that gets plugged into brains early on, and so on and so on as we march toward Liberal Utopia. One movie and Disney+ series at a time.

You know, you see something once, it's obvious and out of place. You see it again, it's a little less noticeable. Three or four times, you're used to it now. By the twentieth time, it becomes to be a bit odd if it isn't there.

There is some semblance of truth in that. I've used this example before but when Disney made The Princess and the Frog they knew it would likely not be a financial hit but saw the value in having at least one black Disney Princess. Over a decade later Tiana regularly ranks as their best selling character in dolls.

Disney should know the value of things that aren't immediately successful. Several of the movies in what is considered to be their first golden age were actually commercial failures on release. They are only considered classic generations down the line and the absolute fortune they make on merchandise and home releases and theme park rides based on these movies more than justified their existence. Heck you could argue it's worked with one of their MCU films; Eternals wasn't really successful but ended up the most streamed Disney+ movie of 2022.

Still I'm not entirely sure this is what is happening here. Clearly they hope audiences warm to these next gen characters so when they do get around to making a Young Avengers thing they have an inbuilt audience but they are not taking a financial hit by including them in projects with the existing characters. Featuring America Chavez didn't stop Doctor Strange earning nearly a billion and the lowest rated Disney+ series (Hawkeye) which was upfront about being about Clint and his young female protege still outperformed much more lauded shows like Peacemaker.

The reason why Disney and indeed any corporation does woke in their creative content is because there is vast amounts of market research that tells them that this works to hook in demographics which are financially important. Of course they occasionally get it wrong like the all female Ghost Busters but contrary to the narrative of right wing youtubers usually they work out financially well. They are not trying to wipe out straight white males from popular culture, they are just trying to make money.

Were you really lose me is the idea that Disney are trying to portray capitalism as bad. They are a f**cking MEGA CORPORATION. One of the biggest in the world. Do you really think one of the richest organisations in history wants to end the system which allows them for intents and purposes to operate their own nation state within a state? Seriously. They are big doners to Republican Party for goodness sakes. There is a reason that a lot of Ron Desantis' financial backers are telling him "dude just drop the anti-Disney crap or we'll have to leave you for the orage idiot again".

IMJ

05-26-2023, 06:18 PM

But let's say you're right about Marvel/Disney's agenda again I ask why would a mega corporation be deliberately tanking their most valuable IPs? Surely someone can give me answer that doesn't involve the Jews or the lizard people.

Because they are a "creative writing" company. A non-profession that liberals flock to in search of deploying their own phony intellectualism. And those kinds of people don't see the world straight to begin with and they simply dig-in on their nonsense in a homogenized group. That's why. This isn't speculation. It's common sense. People homogenize. Look at the "California way" and that state is falling apart at the seams.

Do you think that if these people weren't at Disney flexing their sense of self-importance that they would be somewhere else being engineers, designing meaningful things? Jesus, man. Seriously you needed that explanation?!?!? I thought that was a common sense societal observation. Why do you think they call them "bleeding heart liberals"? It's because it's all maladaptive, melodramatic, self-serving, virtue-signaling narcissism. OMG. Holy $#!(, seriously you didn't know that?!?!

They aren't deliberately tanking their own I.P.s! LMAO!
Groupthink amongst a group of basket cases like Kathleen Kennedy becomes a corporate movement.
Groupthink in a society who has mobilized it's countryside peasants to riots over phony issues means a society tearing itself apart.

There are more peasants than kings, holy $#!( it's that simple. A political environment results in leaders who manipulate and mobilize their peasants into riots. And then companies with cowardly leaders onboard with the "movement narrative" out of fear as well as pursuit of profit. Presumably because they either understand the manipulation themselves, or because they also lack the common sense to know that the whole thing was disingenuous bull$#!( to begin with, again because there are more f'n peasants than kings in the world. And ironically the new peasant-ass thing to do is call each other "kings" and "queens". Except that one group uses the term as allusion to illustrate a point, while the other group uses the term to jerk off.

You don't need a "lizard person conspiracy" to have a real agenda, omfg dude.

Galactus

05-26-2023, 06:47 PM

Because they are a "creative writing" company. A non-profession that liberals flock to in search of deploying their own phony intellectualism. And those kinds of people don't see the world straight to begin with and they simply dig-in on their nonsense in a homogenized group. That's why. This isn't speculation. It's common sense. People homogenize. Look at the "California way" and that state is falling apart at the seams.

...

Disney isn't some art house project making small scale indie movies. They are a multi billion dollar corporation that makes thousands of big budget movies and tv series that go on their own tv channels and streaming services. They operate multiple massive theme parks across the globe and have thousands of merchandising deals active at any given time.

Sure, liberals and progressives have always been drawn to the creative arts but the people at the top are ultra capitalists and conservatives, as I pointed out the company is a big doner to the Republican party and they control all of their output with an iron fist. The reason that most MCU movies keep a consistent feel is that they are created by the same committee. Sure, they have been persuaded to give some directors more leeway but ultimately they have the last say on everything.

It's nice that you don't think they are deliberately tanking their IPs but many of the right including a lot of people in this board have argued vehemently that they are (congratulations you're one of the less insane inmates at the asylum) so then it begs a follow up question; if their approach is failing so much why aren't the CEOs and executives on the board all stepping in to stop it? Why are they doubling down and not course correcting?

It's because their approach is not failing. And as the latest right wing youtuber yells that the latest woke MCU movie is tanking and the entire thing is collapsing these CEOs are swimming in money laughing their asses off like Scrooge Mcduck.

IMJ

05-26-2023, 08:53 PM

sigh omfg.

Man, always be an armchair critic bro. Never do this kind of conversing anywhere it counts, please I implore you.

Galactus

05-27-2023, 11:55 AM

sigh omfg.

Man, always be an armchair critic bro. Never do this kind of conversing anywhere it counts, please I implore you.
n
I do. I don't spend all my time conversing with the people of opposite land, y'know.

Where CEOs of the biggest corporations on Earth are anti-capitalist.

Where organisations that donate millions to the Republican party are ultra woke left wingers.

Where these same organisations disproportionately run by white men are bankrupting themselves trying to marginalise the white men.

Quite a place you've constructed for yourself this Opposite Land but I can't live there full time like y'all do.

IMJ

05-27-2023, 01:28 PM

You are having your own conversation. Not the conversation. And you've dug in on it so badly that you've lost sight of whatever point you had - if you ever even had one other than digging in to fight whatever "evil" and "misguidedness" you perceive yourself to be fighting.

It's very simple. No matter how often you come back to it or try to discredit it by relying on shaming tactics that include "conspiracy flinger!" and "lizard men!", remains the simple point that there is an agenda by TV and film creators, that this agenda has been overwhelmingly on-the-nose from Disney content, and that it is a self-serving market manipulation bent on onboarding with what these people perceive as the social movement of the moment.

How you could possibly argue against that fact simply for your own lost headspace is inconceivable. There is now enough evidence in this thread simply between your gaslighting and flailing around and my regular return-to-the-point that it's clear to anyone who wants to wade through it.

Autbot_Benz

06-13-2023, 11:25 AM

FANTASTIC FOUR
Previously dated on 2/14/25 moves to 5/2/25

https://www.marvel.com/articles/movies/marvel-studios-announces-updates-to-theatrical-release-schedule

Autbot_Benz

11-15-2023, 04:08 PM

Looks like Mando himself Pedro Pascal is Reed Richards if Slashfilm is correct

The news was initially reported by Daniel RPK, but according to sources close to the project who spoke with /Film, Pascal has officially signed on the dotted line. Although Daniel RPK's report says Pascal is in talks, /Film's source says the deal is done and should be announced soon. We have reached out to Disney for comment.*

We still don't know who will be playing the rest

Read More: https://www.slashfilm.com/1000765/marvels-fantastic-four-movie-casts-pedro-pascal-reed-richards/

Deadline is saying he is in talks too which is basically a conformation https://deadline.com/2023/11/pedro-p...ur-1235599560/

CyberCubed

11-15-2023, 04:18 PM

Between that and playing Joel in The Last of Us it seems he's everywhere these days. I also forgot he was in Wonder Woman 2.

Andrew NDB

11-15-2023, 05:30 PM

He's a little old for Reed Richards.

IMJ

11-16-2023, 10:51 AM

He's a little old for Reed Richards.

I like Pedro Pascal but this just looks like bad casting for a variety of reasons.

ProphetofGanja

11-28-2023, 03:48 PM

He's a little old for Reed Richards.

Reed Richards, the guy who famously has graying temples? :lol:

Autbot_Benz

02-07-2024, 12:05 PM

SAG-AFTRA confirms Pascal is going to be Reed Richards

https://i.imgur.com/LV1ARMY.jpeg

https://twitter.com/DiscussingFilm/status/1755247279445795158

Autbot_Benz

02-14-2024, 10:04 AM

https://i.imgur.com/7H41T0X.png

The Cast

https://i.imgur.com/YuANzJg.png

LeotheLateBloomer

02-14-2024, 01:20 PM

Vanessa Kirby as Sue Storm? I'm not liking this casting.

Zulithe

02-14-2024, 01:41 PM

I think it's MOSTLY pretty solid. Pedro is a bit overexposed in recent years though. I'm not against him just I can see how some are probably rolling their eyes. Game of Thrones, Mandalorian, Wonder Woman 84, The Last of Us... he's just been in a lot of these 'nerdcore' type shows that all tend to attract a very similar audience, so having him also in FF feels like he's being stretched a little thin in these kinds of roles. BUT... I do think he's likeable and a good actor, so hoping for the best.

Now we need to know the Doom casting, and I'm also really curious if they will have any of the kids in this one. I think that would be a good direction to go, as they can play up The Incredibles parallels and I think a lot of audiences would really dig that. Would help set it apart from a lot of other super teams.

Andrew NDB

02-14-2024, 01:50 PM

The old-timey logo and general aesthetic might lend credence to the whole thing about this F4 being plucked from the 1960s into the present day.

CyberCubed

02-14-2024, 04:14 PM

1960's would make sense to explain their absence in the modern timeline. Did Iron Man 1 take place in 2007-2008 when it came out? I can't remember if it did because if so that'd be 50 years later.

Andrew NDB

02-14-2024, 04:26 PM

1960's would make sense to explain their absence in the modern timeline. Did Iron Man 1 take place in 2007-2008 when it came out? I can't remember if it did because if so that'd be 50 years later.

Yeah, 2008. And for all we know 99.8% of the movie could be set in the 60s and it just ends up in the modern day, like Captain America 1.

And Joseph Quinn? That's Eddie from the last season of Stranger Things. Is he playing the Thing or the Human Torch?

Autbot_Benz

02-14-2024, 04:37 PM

.

And Joseph Quinn? That's Eddie from the last season of Stranger Things. Is he playing the Thing or the Human Torch?

Quinn is Human Torch. Ebon Moss Bachrach is Thing

Andrew NDB

02-14-2024, 04:40 PM

Ebon Moss Bachrach is Thing

Ah, Micro from Netflix Punisher! Pedro's the only odd duck in that lineup. They should have kept John Krasinski.

Drose18

02-14-2024, 04:45 PM

I hope Reed descends into becoming the Maker in the MCU

neatoman

02-14-2024, 05:20 PM

0pl1wBpwnZw

Galactus

02-14-2024, 06:32 PM

Ah, Micro from Netflix Punisher! Pedro's the only odd duck in that lineup. They should have kept John Krasinski.

The rumour is that Krasinski just flat out doesn't want to be Reed Richards or commit to being part of the big MCU franchise. He just did Doctor Strange as bone to the fans who kept asking for it. If that's true it's nice he and Marvel did something small for the fans but I always found it weird they introduced the alternate universe versions of these characters before the main versions.

Personally I've long thought Anson Mount looks the part of Reed and seeing him act in Strange New Worlds I think he could pull it off too. I know he already played a Marvel character but he wouldn't be the first to play two Marvel characters...or two MCU characters for that matter.

Xav

02-14-2024, 07:11 PM

I'm shocked they're all white. You would think they would try to put at least one black person in there.

CyberCubed

02-14-2024, 07:30 PM

Wasn't one of them black in the last reboot?

neatoman

02-14-2024, 07:43 PM

Wasn't one of them black in the last reboot?

Johnny was.

IMJ

02-15-2024, 09:34 AM

I'm shocked they're all white. You would think they would try to put at least one black person in there.

Pedro Pascal is Hispanic. He isn't "white".

Xav

02-15-2024, 05:07 PM

Pedro Pascal is Hispanic. He isn't "white".You can speak Spanish and still be white.

Andrew NDB

02-15-2024, 05:30 PM

You can speak Spanish and still be white.

He's Chilean. That isn't white.

IMJ

02-15-2024, 05:55 PM

You can speak Spanish and still be white.

sigh. Fair enough, excuse me. He is "Chilean" and not white. Although I point out that you said:

I'm shocked they're all white.

and they are not. And so, my point still stands, semantics aside.

CyberCubed

02-15-2024, 06:55 PM

Andrew NDB

02-15-2024, 07:09 PM

I still wonder if this movie will do as well as Disney hopes. Fantastic Four aren't really a big draw to casual audiences, and after the Fox films (and the last one bombing completely), I doubt people are even that interested. Or likely just remember those films being mediocre and not caring.

I dunno, it could go either way. Even if the film itself turns out good, I do wonder if it'll be the hit they want.

It's hard to say. Let's wait and see who's their Dr. Doom. Right now, there aren't any names that are going to do any magic with the box office on their own. No, Pedro Pascal is pretty far from a guaranteed box office draw. In fact, I can't even think of one movie he's been in that's been a hit. Equalizer 2 and Kingsmen 2 come to mind, but those just barely made their money back and they didn't make the money they did because people were showing up for Pedro.

Zulithe

02-15-2024, 07:39 PM

Pedro Pascal is Hispanic. He isn't "white".
White can be a very broad umbrella, it depends on who you ask and where they live as the definition isn't strictly defined.

What we can say is that he is primarily of Spanish descent, with also some Portuguese, French and Welsh. Chilean is his national origin, not his race.

In some parts of Europe he probably would more or less be considered as "white" as any other European, depending on the region.

Race is complicated. But actors like Pedo are in a good position because they can play latino/spanish/"ethnic" when the role calls for it, or he can come off as more or less "white" in some other roles when need be. Since he is of mixed background he can lean into whatever direction he needs to.

Andrew NDB

02-16-2024, 11:53 AM

But actors like Pedo are in a good position because they can play latino/spanish/"ethnic" when the role calls for it, or he can come off as more or less "white" in some other roles when need be.

No, he doesn't come off as white at all. If I didn't know anything about him and just glanced at him, I'd say he looks like a middle-aged Mexican man.

When this comes out it'll be the 4th Fantastic 4 movie that fails to get people interested in the characters.

Nonsense. Fantastic Four (2005) made a ton of money. It's why it got a sequel.

Autbot_Benz

04-03-2024, 04:13 PM

https://i.imgur.com/jb9b0tM.png

Andrew NDB

04-03-2024, 04:57 PM

That's a pretty bold move. Bold as in now it's going to become persona non grata for everyone tired of woke sh** in superhero movies (or anything else).

People don't know a TON about Fantastic Four but they generally know enough to know that the Silver Surfer is a dude. Yes, I'm sure there's been alternate versions of the Silver Surfer, some have maybe been female, but they can't sit there and pretend they're doing this because of some kind of love for the alternate version(s). We know why they're doing this.

Coola Yagami

04-03-2024, 08:38 PM

IMJ

04-03-2024, 08:49 PM

Why the **** wasn't she cast as Sue?

OMG. That is hysterical. In my first thought of "well that's a flop" I didn't even consider that, but yeah....

And she is a great actress too.

IMJ

04-03-2024, 10:03 PM

The current manipulation finding it's way through social media is the "you DO know that there was a female Silver Surfer, right". You know... as if that does it. :lol:

Simp manipulations.

1 - finding some obscure one-shot in an alternate Universe comic does not change the minds of fans who wanted to see what they bought and read for decades, or even for an hour. It also deepens the "agenda" that an extreme was gone to in order to change another character and then weaponize "source material language".

2 - It's simple - no one needs to justify why they don't want to support any given consumer product. Sometimes you know something is out of place, or that there is mal-intent, or that a methodology simply isn't correct and it's simply enough to know it.

Of course, it helps to have the foresight and language to articulate and shut a manipulator down, but at the end of the day Capitalism is the great equalizer. Someone can shame you for not buying, they can try to scarlett letter you as an "istaphobe", they can commit all of the verbal evil in the world and pretend they are heroes for doing it. But at the end of the day you don't give your bully your lunch money.

Someone says "you do know that there was a female Silver Surfer, right?" And the answer to that is just as cogent when you say back "and you do know that there was a male Silver Surfer, right?"

Autbot_Benz

05-09-2024, 06:01 PM

The Fantastic Four, meet your villain.

Ralph Ineson, the British actor whose three-decade career ranges from the Harry Potter movies to recent horror prequel The First Omen, has landed the plum part of Galactus, the antagonist in Marvel Studios’ The Fantastic Four.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/fantastic-four-casts-ralph-ineson-as-galactus-1235893995/

TigerClaw

05-09-2024, 06:55 PM

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/fantastic-four-casts-ralph-ineson-as-galactus-1235893995/
John Malkovich has also been cast.
https://deadline.com/2024/05/the-fantastic-four-casts-john-malkovich-mystery-role-1235910028/

Andrew NDB

07-25-2024, 01:36 PM

Not a great picture of Vanessa Kirby there. Looks about 85 years-old.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/fantastic-four-cast-assemble-in-photo/

The Deadman

07-28-2024, 04:28 AM

Title of the movie is The Fantastic Four: The First Steps

ZariusTwo

07-28-2024, 07:59 AM

Title of the movie is The Fantastic Four: The First Days

First Steps actually

I saw a camrip of the footage...you only see Galactus' eyes peering through a window and there's some cringe stuff with Thing on a dating show and a science lesson, not a lot of action, the FF walk towards their rocket and Reed makes dinner reservations.

Andrew NDB

02-04-2025, 09:38 AM

AzMo-FgRp64

Autbot_Benz

02-04-2025, 09:45 AM

Decent trailer. I still think Pascal is a terrible choice for Reed. Thing looks good his voice just needs to be a bit more gravely

CyberCubed

02-04-2025, 10:45 AM

Looks unique and better than most MCU films from the last 5+ years.

IMJ

02-04-2025, 11:19 AM

They cut a good first trailer and wisely stayed away from woke-Silver Surfer.
Feels a bit like a direct-to-Netflix movie to me. I'll see it - won't pay for a 40 dollar movie night for it though.

Andrew NDB

02-04-2025, 11:49 AM

Pretty exciting that we're finally getting a comic accurate Galactus. I wonder if this will be a "the bad guys win" situation... where Galactus consumes this alternate Earth, then the F4 come to the MCU one to stop the same thing from happening there.

ToTheNines

02-04-2025, 12:29 PM

Decent trailer. I still think Pascal is a terrible choice for Reed. Thing looks good his voice just needs to be a bit more gravely

This, 100 percent.

Still kind of annoyed there was never an Earth-199999 Fantastic Four, but they missed the bus for the Infinity Saga anyways. I’ll just have to imagine what the Krasinski team would/could have been.

Andrew NDB

02-04-2025, 12:36 PM

I’ll just have to imagine what the Krasinski team would/could have been.

That's still soo, sooo stupid. The one thing or surprise the Multiverse of Madness could have given us was at least revealing of the MCU Reed Richards as Krasinski... and then they even took that away.

ToTheNines

02-04-2025, 12:49 PM

Yeah that pissed me off.

Barkworm

02-04-2025, 03:05 PM

I really like the art style in this one. The trailer was really cool, I especially enjoyed that shot with The Thing running and Sue Storm giving her little speech was nice as well.

Andrew NDB

02-04-2025, 04:09 PM

I wonder how much RDJ will be in this as Victor Von Doom? It's got to be more than a cameo if this is the world he's coming from.

sdp

02-04-2025, 05:27 PM

I'd watch a F4 trilogy all set in the 60s. And a superman movie set in the 30s. It just makes more sense to have these heroes set in the time they were created.
It breaks my suspension of disbelief when I see modern tech and realize this could not happen in a modern world.
TMNT just works best in an 80s/90s setting.
It's like that for every example.
But instead they're going to kill the setting and set them in the past it's prime MCU and no one will care again.

Andrew NDB

02-04-2025, 05:40 PM

It's not set in the 60s, it's set in 2025 of another Earth that kept the aesthetic of the 60s into the present.

ZariusTwo

02-05-2025, 12:22 AM

-2be8kr3TPw

IMJ

02-05-2025, 10:50 AM

Music Video thingy

I honestly don't get it.....
Huh?

ZariusTwo

02-05-2025, 11:54 AM

I honestly don't get it.....
Huh?

I saw someone on Youtube comments comparing the trailer to the look and style of the 2004 flop Thunderbirds, that music video was part of that movie's soundtrack, I just edited it for laughs.

Here's the original for context (contains clips of the film)

CxiwlSshZPM

Barkworm

02-06-2025, 04:09 AM

They seemed to have made the very conscious decision to not show Reed‘s powers in this trailer. I wonder why that is.

IMJ

02-06-2025, 12:41 PM

They seemed to have made the very conscious decision to not show Reed‘s powers in this trailer. I wonder why that is.

It's clear that they cut the absolutely "safest" and most neutral trailer that they could. And in general there isn't much cool spectacle about "stretchy powers" unless it's a big "heroic moment". So my guess is that they save the "heroic moment" for the actual movie and stay away from mundane "arm extension".

Basically the same reason they didn't show any "Woke Girl Surfer" and that they didn't risk showing Galactus' face just yet to the mainstream (even though we sort of saw it in the bootleg footage from ComicCon). Marvel knows they have more cause for Woke-resistance to this one so they are playing it very safe to build buzz. The need a new hit badly.

Andrew NDB

02-06-2025, 01:03 PM

TMNT just works best in an 80s/90s setting.

And I don't buy this at all. The fictional sewers of NYC are pretty much the same no matter what decade you're in, and what's going on above them only matters peripherally in TMNT. Maybe April or Casey has a cell phone, who cares?

Barkworm

02-06-2025, 02:20 PM

It's clear that they cut the absolutely "safest" and most neutral trailer that they could. And in general there isn't much cool spectacle about "stretchy powers" unless it's a big "heroic moment". So my guess is that they save the "heroic moment" for the actual movie and stay away from mundane "arm extension".

Basically the same reason they didn't show any "Woke Girl Surfer" and that they didn't risk showing Galactus' face just yet to the mainstream (even though we sort of saw it in the bootleg footage from ComicCon). Marvel knows they have more cause for Woke-resistance to this one so they are playing it very safe to build buzz. The need a new hit badly.

That might be but even in that part where Reed talks about how everyone was affected by their space trip, his own fate is omitted. `I couldn‘t stretch`wouldn‘t have been more goofy than ‘Ben wasn‘t a Rock‘, no? I feel like there’s more to it than wanting the trailer to be safe, especially since the trailer seemed to embrace the goofiness of the FF.

Andrew NDB

02-06-2025, 02:26 PM

`I couldn‘t stretch`wouldn‘t have been more goofy than ‘Ben wasn‘t a Rock‘, no?

It would have, actually, I think. Even saying it out loud now. And obviously they were in love with the double entendre of "he's a rock" for the purposes of the trailer.

Barkworm

02-06-2025, 02:30 PM

I don‘t know, after the beginning with H.E.R.B.I.E. and Ben in the kitchen, the camp factor had already been set super high.

IMJ

02-06-2025, 04:31 PM

That might be but even in that part where Reed talks about how everyone was affected by their space trip, his own fate is omitted. `I couldn‘t stretch`wouldn‘t have been more goofy than ‘Ben wasn‘t a Rock‘, no? I feel like there’s more to it than wanting the trailer to be safe, especially since the trailer seemed to embrace the goofiness of the FF.

I hate to nitpick at this, but - how could you define that trailer as anything but "safe" and absolutely zero-risk?

They cut a good, cliche trailer. But from a business standpoint it was purely "ZERO controversial or offensive material at all costs". It was so formulaic that it could have been a fan-made trailer to hype a wish-project.

I feel like there’s more to it than wanting the trailer to be safe, especially since the trailer seemed to embrace the goofiness of the FF.

So, what is the "more to it" that you would speculate on? I'm legitimately curious..... Because all I saw was a "decent, risk-off trailer".

On another note entirely - from an FF fan perspective - Ben's design looks great, but he is entirely too small and seemed to have zero "New York Extreme Accent" about him.

Barkworm

02-06-2025, 11:41 PM

So, what is the "more to it" that you would speculate on? I'm legitimately curious..... Because all I saw was a "decent, risk-off trailer".
I don‘t disagree with you at all! 100 per cent typical Hollywood trailer, nothing new about it. I‘m simply saying it‘s weird in this type of trailer to reveal everyone‘s powers and even mention what these powers are but leave out one guy. I don‘t know if there‘s more to it, it‘s just a curious detail.

Andrew NDB

02-07-2025, 12:20 AM

IMJ

02-07-2025, 02:01 PM

A small piece of it might be them focus group blaming The Marvels retroactively on early perceptions of Kamala's powers? In marketing? Though I don't remember if they showed her stretching in the trailers and I really don't want to watch those again to see now.

Kamala stretches in the comics. In the awful, anti-white male movie and show she appropriates the Quantum Bands and creates energy fists and constructs with the Quantum Force.

Literally the most disappointing and soul crushing movie experience for me personally in movie history. Followed only by the $#!(fest known as Iron Man 3 and what they did with the Mandarin, then followed by Shang Chi. :lol:

Andrew NDB

02-07-2025, 02:44 PM

Followed only by the $#!(fest known as Iron Man 3 and what they did with the Mandarin, then followed by Shang Chi. :lol:

And I was really excited after the "All Hail the King" short. All that build-up and tease just to have another non-Mandarin? It still doesn't even make sense how or why that Mandarin would have been in charge of the people that abducted Tony in IM1.

Also, a mod should probably replace Jon Watts in the title with Matt Shakman by this point.

Andrew NDB

04-10-2025, 06:15 PM

Not good!

https://i.ibb.co/VY4bngPf/489888008-9594666530569665-8841071969068844482-n.jpg

https://i.ibb.co/C3nqpYbz/489885790-9594667130569605-6688223736368056007-n.jpg

ToTheNines

04-11-2025, 04:40 AM

The Fantastic Bore

IMJ

04-11-2025, 09:59 AM

And they are still hiding woke Silver Surfer.

Coola Yagami

04-11-2025, 10:26 AM

And they are still hiding woke Silver Surfer.

Kinda telling they had to dig through history until they found an obscure female Silver Surfer to use just so both the studio and the wokies can claim 'nuh uh!! There was a female Silver Surfer in the comics, don't you read comics?'.

It would be like making a Batman movie and purposely use Jace Fox because he was Batman for a weekend in some comics.

IMJ

04-11-2025, 01:35 PM

The catchphrase that represents the truth is "they are disingenuous, don't believe them". They'll say anything to manipulate people who aren't equipped or inclined to push back.

"it's from the comics". Answer - don't care - it's not from the comics that we cherished and waited our lifetimes to see on screen. It's agenda, don't want it.

Galactus

04-13-2025, 09:18 PM

Not good!

Putting aside the a movie based around a family in a version of the 60s is obviously going to explore gender roles with the wife and mother character. The main thing is that this is true to how Sue has been used in the comics for a long time. Vanessa kirby name checking Malice shows she's either done her homework or the writers have.

Same with Johnny Storm. Sure the character is a serial dater but he's never been a pump and dump kinda guy like the version Chris Evans played. I get why they did it that way in the 2005 movie as it's a short hand for him being a bit of a womanizer rather than the alternate rout they could have taken like him being shown to date a new girl in every movie in the series (considering they only got two they probably made the right call) but a comic accurate version wouldn't be a full on player.

Kinda telling they had to dig through history until they found an obscure female Silver Surfer to use just so both the studio and the wokies can claim 'nuh uh!! There was a female Silver Surfer in the comics, don't you read comics?'.

Earth-X isn't really obscure. It's essentially Marvel's version of Kingdom Come and had multiple sequels and spin offs. I was never a huge fan of them but it was a fairly popular in it's day and concepts from it have leaked into the main continuity.

Coola Yagami

04-13-2025, 09:52 PM

Earth-X isn't really obscure. It's essentially Marvel's version of Kingdom Come and had multiple sequels and spin offs. I was never a huge fan of them but it was a fairly popular in it's day and concepts from it have leaked into the main continuity.

True but since this is supposed to be THE Fantastic Four, let's go with THE Silver Surfer and not some obscure variant.

But I guess the studios can't help themselves. They got the Fantastic Fout to be white (or at least Pedro is meant to be white-presenting, similar to Jessica Alba), so I guess Silver Surfer had to be a woman. Just can't be faithful to the comics. There just has to be a gender swap or race swap somewhere.

Andrew NDB

04-14-2025, 12:07 AM

And Silver Surfer is like the one character I doubt anyone would care if was played by a black dude, if they were really interested in checking a box. But making it a woman? No.

Galactus

04-14-2025, 10:32 PM

True but since this is supposed to be THE Fantastic Four, let's go with THE Silver Surfer and not some obscure variant.

But I guess the studios can't help themselves. They got the Fantastic Fout to be white (or at least Pedro is meant to be white-presenting, similar to Jessica Alba), so I guess Silver Surfer had to be a woman. Just can't be faithful to the comics. There just has to be a gender swap or race swap somewhere.

It was the 2005 Fantastic Four movie that I first noticed one of these attempts at a hate campaign for casting a non white actor to play a character that was originally white. The irony is that Jessica Alba is white - not white presenting. But being hispanic she's considered to be the wrong kind of white for those people. Funnily enough everyone who was so concerned with characters being not the correct race and ethnicity as the originals were not remotely concerned about Michael Chiklis playing the Jewish Ben Grimm. Nor do they seem to care about the MCU Wanda Maximoff or even Victor Von Doom being totally the wrong ethnicity.

First Steps seems to be an odd mix. Very faithful to the FF in a lot of aspects the previous movies weren't which has me happy but divergent in a some others which gives me pause but them using a different version of the Silver is not one of them. I may begin to start caring about these things if the internet outrage for these kind of changes was applied fairly across the board.

And Silver Surfer is like the one character I doubt anyone would care if was played by a black dude, if they were really interested in checking a box. But making it a woman? No.

I remember some backlash to Laurence Fishburne back in Rise of the Silver Surfer too, I can only imagine what it what it would be now. But this version of the Sufer isn't a gender bended Norin Radd it's Shala Bal. It's like if a Justice League movie included Jessica Cruz as their Green Lantern instead of Hal Jordan. Would that really be a big deal?

ZariusTwo

04-15-2025, 02:28 AM

Earth-X isn't really obscure

Ask anyone who doesn't read comics what it is and see how many answers you get.

ToTheNines

04-15-2025, 04:26 AM

True but since this is supposed to be THE Fantastic Four, let's go with THE Silver Surfer and not some obscure variant.

For me personally, once a character has been done justice and given a complete arc, I do not care what they want to do with them in the medium of film. So like Cap, Iron Man, Thor, maybe Hulk, technically Ant-Man, Vision, Daredevil, Black Panther, GotG, Punisher…. Whatever, go nuts.

But it’s 2025 and every FF movie produced to date has been awful. Fans deserve a decent adaption before you start reinventing the wheel. (As we do for the X-Men, Spidey, both Hawkeyes, Captain Marvel, Iron Fist, and many more)

IMJ

04-15-2025, 11:08 AM

Jessica Alba did a genetic heritage test and found out on live tv that she wasn't even Hispanic but mostly European. You could clearly see her own racist conceptualizations had difficulty handling that in her immediate facial tones. I can only imagine the response to reading this at his computer by true-racists like "Galactus" there.

As for the go-to "call 'em racists" thing? That's clearly more reflective of the worldview of the proponent of race swaps than it is of people who don't like them. I'm at the point where pointing out these realities doesn't even matter anymore though. Fine, call people "racists". Then it's racism, whatever. Who cares at this point. Say what you want, still not getting the dollars for it and it will continue to go that way.

Ironic though too because Fanboy A doesn't like "Lawrence Fishburne as Silver Surfer" and Reactive Clown B says "A" is a racist. All while Fanboy A loves "Lawrence Fishburne as Morpheus", arguably a better character in every way anyway, but Reactive Clown B fixates on "the racism" of rejection of race swaps.
It's easier to pencil whip "racist" in moments of opportunity. It's easier that way to make excuses for your own life when you entire worldview is built around "THEEEE RAAAAACCEE-ISMMMM!!!" Clown world continues.

Galactus

04-15-2025, 07:34 PM

I can't speak on the whole Jessica Alba heritage test or how she reacted as I had no idea that was a thing. All I know is if the film makers had listened to all the people that complained about her casting as Sue Storm then we would have been robbed of seeing her in skin tight spandex and that would have been unforgivable.

If people want to advocate for movie adaptions to always be 1:1 when it comes to the race and ethnicity of the original versions of the characters that's fine by me but if you only go into outrage when they change a white guy and not the many times it's happened the other way around then yeah I think you have a problem when it comes to race.

Autbot_Benz

04-17-2025, 09:54 AM

fxwTk-wD57s?si=mJlb7HTNijV33Ghq

Andrew NDB

04-17-2025, 10:37 AM

Wow, that female Silver Surfer looks bad. Even the CGI looks bad on her. I think it looked better in the old movies.

ToTheNines

04-17-2025, 11:12 AM

Andrew NDB

04-17-2025, 11:30 AM

Still looks pretty good. Very troubling that we haven’t seen a single sign of Doom. I understand they’re saving that reveal for normies who don’t follow nerd news every day, but that’s by far my biggest reservation, so I’d like some reassurance that that’s not gonna be awful. But I’ll wait and see.

I'm really wondering what will be the deal with Doom. There has to be a Victor Von Doom there IN the Fantastic Four alternate universe, and we know that RDJ is PLAYING Victor Von Doom, and not some Iron Man variant in the Doom armor... but they've also said that Tony's death in Endgame is a "key" part of who Doom is in Doomsday.

Maybe Victor Von Doom will be played by another guy in this then something happens... and he ends up wearing O.G. Tony's body like a skinsuit for some reason? Yet still needs to wear the Doom mask/helmet all the time?

idk... it's hard to imagine how any of this will work in any way that isn't needlessly convoluted. It should have just been "HERE IS YOUR DR. DOOM ACTOR!!" (and it's Cillian Murphy, or someone like that) he shows up in a decent capacity in Fantastic Four, then gets rolled out into the other movies. Nice and simple.

Agreed. No way it’s incomplete at this point right?

I think it's mostly the hair? idk.

https://i.ibb.co/3m3dM6Wn/491160003-23967192129531069-6568115747120712522-n.jpg

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is your new Silver Surfer. Did they give her little black eyelashes? Is that what's going on there?

IMJ

04-17-2025, 01:02 PM

My understanding is that Doom won't play a role in this movie basically at all. This movie is woke $#!(, but now it's woke $#!( with goalpost-moving excuses like "there was a girl Surfer in a comic" and other such manipulation for clown-world.

Here, ladies and gentlemen, is your new Silver Surfer. Did they give her little black eyelashes? Is that what's going on there?

Years ago clown world participants claimed that "women don't need armor that shows the female form". Can't wait to hear their logic for a female surfer that shows the female form under her cosmic slick.

This movie won't be a slam dunk but it will probably do okay though. It's been a long time since the addicts stuck a Marvel needle in their arm and they've cut two, good, formulaic trailers so that will sell some tickets. I'll watch it. Won't pay for it.... but I'll see what they do with it.

Also, on another note, remember when the manipulation used to be "you can't judge it unless you see it" as their cash-play? Now it's "she's only in this movie because they are in another Universe, so the next one will be the Surfer everyone wanted" as their cash-play.

ToTheNines

04-17-2025, 03:38 PM

idk... it's hard to imagine how any of this will work in any way that isn't needlessly convoluted. It should have just been "HERE IS YOUR DR. DOOM ACTOR!!" (and it's Cillian Murphy, or someone like that) he shows up in a decent capacity in Fantastic Four, then gets rolled out into the other movies. Nice and simple.

Right. It’s literally that simple.

My understanding is that Doom won't play a role in this movie basically at all.

That’s pretty crazy. You have a FF origin movie in 2025 and Doom is their big bad in the 2026 and 2027 Avengers flicks and they’re going to leave him out? How does this make any sense?

Same thing as our chat in the thread about Bayturtles… you and I are just regular Joes and not big dick swinging Hollywood execs, but c’mon! A little common sense might go a long way here lol.

Barkworm

04-18-2025, 07:20 AM

Two things:

Silver Surfer looks HORRIBLE.
Unfortunately, it really looks like they are just ashamed of showing Reed‘s powers. Which is lame.

Coola Yagami

04-18-2025, 07:26 AM

Two things:

Silver Surfer looks HORRIBLE.
Unfortunately, it really looks like they are just ashamed of showing Reed‘s powers. Which is lame.

*After watching the trailer* HE HAS POWERS? :o :o :o
I thought he was just the Fantastic Four hype man or something.

Autbot_Benz

06-25-2025, 03:54 PM

18QQWa5MEcs?si=IShnJWzkEKZxqmyT

Not a fan of this lame Ben refuses to say It’s Clobbering time cause he claims its only in the cartoons

ToTheNines

06-30-2025, 03:04 PM

Still looking pretty darn good. I'm hesitantly excited.

IMJ

06-30-2025, 04:38 PM

*After watching the trailer* HE HAS POWERS? :o :o :o
I thought he was just the Fantastic Four hype me or something.

My guess is that we will get a lot of "stretchy jumping" and "stretchy reaching" but not much "shape-forming".

We will all get it, but only some will pay for it. :lol:

ToTheNines

07-09-2025, 02:49 AM

https://i.imgur.com/JhL3Vbc.jpeg

ToTheNines

07-22-2025, 02:11 PM

People like it: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/fantastic-four-first-steps-first-reactions-premiere-1236325282/

neatoman

07-23-2025, 05:54 PM

Alright, I've seen it. I liked it way better than I expected, not like it's a high bar but it is better than the one from 20 years ago and way better than the one from 10 years ago. There are definitely some contrivances that made me ask questions like "Why is the pregnant woman going into space?" or "Why are underground tunnels the best place to evacuate to?" but I can mostly overlook that.

Oh, and I know some people were worried about "girlboss" stuff. Nothing like that seemed to really bother me. In case you must know, there are two instances where female characters do something instead of male characters but I am pretty sure you'd really need have stick up your ass to take an issue with either.
Sue uses her forcefields to push Galactus into a portal so he can be defeated, but this is such a strain on her that she actually dies and Franklin uses his baby god power to bring her back.
Then Silver Surfer decides to sacrifice herself instead of Johnny in order to make sure Galactus stays in the portal, which is seemingly motivated by a desire to atone for having lead Galactus to so many planets previously.

And this isn't quite related to the movie itself, but I think I have an idea to how Doom can look like Tony Stark:
Any references to Maria being pregnant in the main universe is a mislead, she actually had a miscarriage and the Starks adopted Victor Von Doom and renamed him Tony, though they died before they could tell him the truth.

Andrew NDB

07-23-2025, 06:00 PM

And this isn't quite related to the movie itself, but I think I have an idea to how Doom can look like Tony Stark:
Any references to Maria being pregnant in the main universe is a mislead, she actually had a miscarriage and the Starks adopted Victor Von Doom and renamed him Tony, though they died before they could tell him the truth.

I don't get it. Why would an adopted kid look like Tony?

neatoman

07-23-2025, 06:10 PM

I don't get it. Why would an adopted kid look like Tony?

The theory is that the Tony in the MCU is Victor Von Doom adopted by the Starks. Imagine this timeline:

Howard and Maria expect a child.
Child is stillborn.
In their grief, they adopt a Latverian child and name him Tony.
Howard and Maria never get the chance to tell him he's adopted and grows up thinking he's their biological child.
Tony grows up to work with Stane and becomes Iron Man in the first movie.

That is the Tony we know from the previous movies, not someone who "looks" like him.

Now imagine a hypothetical alternative scenario for that same child:

Maria's baby, let's call him Arno, is not stillborn and thus the Starks never go to Latveria to adopt a child.
The child they would have adopted if Arno was stillborn remains in Latveria.
This child grows up to take over power in Latveria as Victor Von Doom.

That's it, it's not more complicated than that. Tony and Victor are the same person with the difference being the adoption.

Andrew NDB

07-23-2025, 07:08 PM

Oh, I get what you're saying now. Could be. Something like that is what I was imagining.

IMJ

07-24-2025, 07:49 AM

People are discussing that wretched theory everywhere. It's pulled from one of the most maligned Iron Man runs ever written by Terry Gillam.

Andrew NDB

07-24-2025, 12:17 PM

Anyone care to make predictions now? I'll go out on a limb here:

Knowing now where Superman's box office will end (it may pick up another 10-15 million this weekend if that, but then that's it) I think Fantastic Four is going to do better than Superman, and probably significantly.

I'd guesstimate it'll do... maybe just a little less than Guardians of the Galaxy 3 numbers? Somewhere in the 300 million dollar domestic, 800 worldwide area?

sdp

07-24-2025, 01:14 PM

I don't think it'll do better than Jurassic World Rebirth and that one is not going to reach 800

Jester

07-24-2025, 04:05 PM

After watching both I just like FF better than Superman.
The characters seem to bounce of each other better. No one seems to be left without something to do, even Johnny gets a chance to show why he's a valuable member of the team.
The family dynamic in done better too. As is the villain and the stakes.
And I've heard people even compare and contrast the babies. And yes: Franklin > Joey

Andrew NDB

07-24-2025, 11:55 PM

Wow, even Ethan Van Sciver loves it:

nCuLkpQvCSQ

neatoman

07-25-2025, 05:25 AM

People are discussing that wretched theory everywhere. It's pulled from one of the most maligned Iron Man runs ever written by Terry Gillam.

Kieron Gillen Not Terry Gilliam. Though I must admit, I am curious to see what a version of Iron Man made him would be like now that you mention it.

IMJ

07-25-2025, 10:01 AM

Kieron Gillen Not Terry Gilliam. Though I must admit, I am curious to see what a version of Iron Man made him would be like now that you mention it.

:lol: Voice recog chewed that one up...

That run had gorgeous art but the "Adoption Story" is so outrageous that it's maligned amongst Iron Man fans. And it's a real shame too because the first 6-issues of his run showed a TON of promise. And then he got into the material with the Recorder and it went down hill badly for years.

sdp

07-25-2025, 11:13 AM

So this movie has it "all"' it's liked by fans, critics, 'return to norm', RDJ. This should be a huge hit unless general audiences are tired of capes. I still hold Jurassic World will do better

IMJ

07-25-2025, 02:06 PM

We hear that BS at the launch of every Marvel flick. "It's the BEST Marvel movie YET!" - it rings in my ears like with the sound of one of those obnoxious scripted kids in an 80's toy commercial as they put emphasis on "Best" and "Yet". :lol:

I'm not saying that it isn't a better flick compared to the last 7 years of Marvel output - I'm just saying that I'll believe it's "all good" maybe a week or two from now. :lol:

Also - pay for it, you get it. So if it does well you can expect more Girl-Surfer even though so many people lapped up the "she's only in this one, they'll do Norrin Radd later!". smh at the simps.

Andrew NDB

07-25-2025, 02:19 PM

So if it does well you can expect more Girl-Surfer even though so many people lapped up the "she's only in this one, they'll do Norrin Radd later!"

Well, apparently she sacrifices herself and dies in this? So it'll be Norrin Radd or nothing later, and they already said they'll bring in Norrin. I'm assuming he will be the already-existing Silver Surfer of the regular MCU universe.

IMJ

07-25-2025, 02:36 PM

Well, apparently she sacrifices herself and dies in this? So it'll be Norrin Radd or nothing later, and they already said they'll bring in Norrin. I'm assuming he will be the already-existing Silver Surfer of the regular MCU universe.

Oh COME ON duuuddeee....
:lol:

If she follows Galactus into the "portal of death" then she survives for a future flick just like Galactus does.

You really think that after years of agenda and swaps and nonsense that this time it's okay because it's an "alternate universe" and they really are going to wipe out Julia Garner's character never to return because that doesn't fit the agenda at all because it's an alternate Universe so they wouldn't do that because it's an alternate universe and they are super ready to give fans what they want which isn't an alternate Universe Surfer which is why they gave us the alternate universe surfer now so they got the alternate universe surfer out of the way because it was only an..... bla bla bla

Hello? See that paragraph? That represents every goof @$$ that laps that $#( up. That paragraph that ran on with nonsense there? That's the thought process of people who believe that $#!( and that's why it works....

"It isn't da woke becuz id's from the com-icks dis time of all da times so ids the okay!"

Andrew NDB

07-26-2025, 01:11 AM

I just saw it so I see what you mean. I thought the Silver Surfer death was going to be more definitive but she'll definitely be back. I think we'll still meet Norrin Radd in the MCU, though (probably we will get Silver Surfer vs. Silver Surfer on Battleworld or whatever). I also wonder if the gender swapping of the Silver Surfer had far more to do with struggling to give Johnny stuff to do than DEI stuff. This movie, this script, if the Silver Surfer had been male then Johnny wouldn't have been smitten and there wouldn't be nearly as much there. Unless, of course, they made Johnny gay, which I'd be surprised if they didn't consider at some point.

I generally liked the movie but I thought we were going to get a ballsier climax. Like they lose, they're humbled, Galactus eats the planet and the Fantastic 4 are barely able to escape the planet/universe by the skin of their teeth. The idea being when they would get to the MCU Earth, they'd want to take extra special care to defend THIS one. The ending we got was too "neat." I don't think even one person good or bad died in the whole movie.

The mid and end credits bits weren't much of anything. We don't even see RDJ and the END credits bit is seriously not worth sitting until.

ToTheNines

07-26-2025, 07:50 AM

So if the FF have been operating for 4 years here, have they already fought Doom a couple of times?

Coola Yagami

07-26-2025, 11:16 AM

Wow, even Ethan Van Sciver loves it:

nCuLkpQvCSQ

Yeah but he's a scumbag so who cares what he thinks.

ToTheNines

07-26-2025, 12:14 PM

He might be a chud, but his art is incredible. He’s the yin to Sophie Campbell’s yang lol

Andrew NDB

07-26-2025, 04:09 PM

What's wrong with EVS? Sometimes he has some "hot takes" on things but I've seldom disagreed with him except on movies. My only axe to grind with him is that he wouldn't draw me a Kyle Rayner 10 years ago or so.

So if the FF have been operating for 4 years here, have they already fought Doom a couple of times?

Maybe. We learn or hear literally 0 about Victor Von Doom in the movie. Other than an empty seat at the Latveria chair.

ToTheNines

07-26-2025, 04:43 PM

Mind blowing. Are they going to save the RDJ reveal as some kind of twist in Doomsday? Seems crazy.

IMJ

07-26-2025, 05:43 PM

I'm already more interested in the post-Secret Wars MCU than I am in anything leading up to Secret Wars to be honest.

Also, how great can that reboot even be? They'll still be holdover in it from this phase. I sort of wish they'd get rid of Feige at this point and pave it and start over.

Andrew NDB

07-29-2025, 12:59 AM

Also, how great can that reboot even be?

"Great" will be relative. My suspicion is that basically we've got all these worlds now... the MCU as we know it, the Fantastic Four universe, and the Fox-Men universe, and somehow we get actually like a "Crisis on Infinite Earths" where it all gets merged into one thing, one universe. Some things are the same and some things aren't. This is where we'll get some recastings of MCU people and the new non-Fox-Men X-Men.

This wasn't necessary. They could have approached the F4 as something in the existing MCU from the 60s coming forward in time. They could have planted more X-Men seeds to have the X-Men proper just pop up now. And recastings of the core Avengers should never have been a big deal to begin with.

So here we are, we have the Superman vs. Fantastic Four tally:

OPENING WEEKEND:

Superman:

125 million domestic.

Fantastic Four:

117 million domestic.

It's a bit close but wow... I was wrong. Superman did do better.

CyberCubed

07-29-2025, 07:49 AM

I saw Superman in theaters but this movie I can wait till it comes out on streaming so I can watch it for *free when it's in HD. I imagine many other people are doing the same so it hurts box office sales.

I only see about 1 or 2 movies in theaters a year, last year it was Deadpool/Wolverine and this year Superman. Sometimes I forget what it's like paying for a movie ticket, now they all have QR codes and assigned seating. Feels like such a foreign concept for me.

ranger_scout

08-02-2025, 10:21 AM

I saw it last Saturday in IMAX and I do think it was easily the best Fantastic Four film. Did I think it was 100% flawless? No, but I did think it was an excellent start for Phase Six of the MCU.

neatoman

08-02-2025, 11:14 AM

I do think it was easily the best Fantastic Four film.

Well... I agree and I liked the movie... But saying it's the best one isn't exactly a high bar is it? The Roger Corman one is a nonsensical thing that was never meant to be released and only exists so the studio would technically have fulfilled their obligation, the 2015 one may have always been intended to get released but was still made for similar reasons and just isn't good as a result either. The only ones left to compare it to as any sort of "real" movies that weren't just meant to honor a contract are the 2005 and its direct sequel, which still weren't good.

Andrew NDB

08-02-2025, 02:20 PM

It's kind of looking like the movie is going to end right around where the original 2005 movie did, and that had less than half of the budget.

IMJ

08-02-2025, 03:25 PM

:lol:

What I originally was going to post is just best summed up with:

:lol:

sdp

08-02-2025, 10:47 PM

Confirms what we already knew, cape **** is done
Thank God.

CyberCubed

08-02-2025, 11:06 PM

Only Batman or Spider-man movies will probably do well in the future. I don't even see Marvel's reboot of the X-men breaking numbers, it'll just be another superhero team-up movie to most.

IMJ

08-03-2025, 08:26 PM

These movies are being rejected because almost all of them since Endgame were woke $#!(. It has nothing to do with "superhero fatigue" which is about as dumb as when they blamed Trek's reduced numbers on "Star Trek fatigue" after $#!((ing out an awful movie with Nemesis and dragging Enterprise out for two seasons before doing anything of merit. It's like saying there's "Star Wars fatigue" when in fact that was more ongoing woke $#!(, and yet when it's not, people watch it.

Citing basically any "genre or title fatigue" is Hollywood's lie to brush off responsibility and it's something for the low-information people to grab onto and join in on a buzzword.

CyberCubed

08-03-2025, 08:55 PM

Which Marvel movies are considered, "woke?"

sdp

08-03-2025, 10:56 PM

Saying it's woke is just incels way of coping that their nerd hobby is no longer mainstream with general audiences. Mass audiences jumped aboard with the Avengers movie and were fully invested into the MCU, it was new and exciting. Remember how all the solo movies got a post-Avengers B.O. boost? They stayed with Marvel up until End Game which was well the end of the story. People are not going to follow these characters forever, not in the serialized way they were doing. They got to see a pay off and are not willing to return again for more of the same. Diminishing returns, that's what we've been seeing. The TV shows and quality lowering of the movies are also factors but even great movies were not going to cut it, the newness of superheroes and interconnected movies that you need to follow is gone.

The big names are all going to survive, but they won't be doing original MCU level numbers again outside of an outlier or two. Video Game movies seem to be the new MCU, now that they're finally getting it "right".

IMJ

08-04-2025, 10:36 AM

Which Marvel movies are considered, "woke?"

Almost all of the content since Endgame has been weighed down by it.

ToTheNines

08-04-2025, 10:49 AM

Captain Marvel 1 and 2. Probably Eternals but I didn’t see it. The Taika Waititi Thor crap was its own unique genre of garbage. Some cringey elements to the BP movies, but they were fine overall (love the first one).

Some of the D+ stuff too.

Andrew NDB

08-04-2025, 10:54 AM

Definitely there's been varying degrees of woke in all MCU stuff since Endgame, and even a bit of it before that. Sometimes it's just as simple as a couple of race/gender swaps and pushing the straight white males to the back row and a few brush strokes of emasculation (Thunderbolts), sometimes it's much more in-your-face and obvious (The Marvels, Ms. Marvel, Ironheart).

Boy, it'd be interesting to see that first cut of Captain America: Brave New World (or rather, "New World Order" as it was originally called). You can only imagine the kind of stuff that was in there before they took the machete to it.

ToTheNines

08-04-2025, 11:01 AM

You think it was better or worse than the last couple episodes of “Falcon and the Winter Soldier”?

Andrew NDB

08-04-2025, 11:05 AM

You think it was better or worse than the last couple episodes of “Falcon and the Winter Soldier”?

Oh, I'm almost positive it was a double or tripling down on the very worst post-BLM aspects of Falcon & the Winter Soldier. All of the interviews of how proud those guys were of what they did (all the "Do better!" crap and worse) when they resumed filming on the back half of F&TWS after BLM and COVID, that was assuredly going to be the direction of the movie. And then when they realized nobody wanted to see that stuff and scrapped it out and frantically tried to reshoot stuff to plug all the holes... there really wasn't much of a movie left at all.

IMJ

08-04-2025, 07:15 PM

I really like Anthony Mackie as Falcon. Or should I say "liked". It's been completely ruined for me with the direction they took in that.....

eh.

That show.

sdp

08-07-2025, 05:55 PM

Neither of the two avengers movie is going to hit 1 billion.
Maybe one of them does but by really going all out on nostalgia bringing back all the OGs "remember you used to love us" but even then wouldn't ougross Age of Ultron which is the lowest grossing avengers film.
It'll be funny seeing Disney go full panic mode their golden goose is confirmed dead.

All the movies that did great numbers relied heavily on nostalgia bringing back toby and Hugh Jackman. You can only do that so many times.

ToTheNines

08-07-2025, 07:56 PM

I really like Anthony Mackie as Falcon. Or should I say "liked". It's been completely ruined for me with the direction they took in that.....

eh.

That show.

Dude, same here. Always loved that character in MCU. I LOVED the scene between him and Steve at the end of Endgame, as most people did. I felt Sam really deserved the shield and it was an incredible scene.

(This is a whole nother topic, but is worth mentioning. Plenty of people did take issue with Sam getting the shield, but it had absolutely nothing to do with racism. Many people just expected it to be Bucky because he had a stint as Cap in the comics WAY before Sam. There is nothing wrong with wanting to see the source material adhered to as much as possible. Level headed and previously apolitical comic readers have been maligned and painted as reactionary devils when they don’t accept certain changes, and I’ve always thought that was really unfair. Ok, side rant over).

So it really bothered the **** of me in episode 6 of F&TWS when Sam said “I know half of you HATE to see me in this uniform” or whatever. Yuck. No one said that, dude! We all liked you and were rooting for you! This is made up!

ToTheNines

08-24-2025, 05:50 PM

Late to the party, but I just got back from the theater. I thought it was outstanding. Loved it!

This is about the best FF move I could imagine, even if I’m not in love with their unconventional introduction to the MCU. But if this is the lemonade we get out of the lemons of Fox holding their rights throughout the entire Infinity Saga, I’ll take it. Certainly feels like one or more movies should have happened before this one, but that’s what your imagination is for, I suppose. I did enjoy the pacing and thought they knocked every aspect out of the park, especially the emotional stuff. The spaceship chase with Sue in labor was really well done and the birth scene was great. Also the stuff with Galactus and Franklin was super tense.

Vanessa Kirby was incredible as Sue. My only nitpick is her British accent really came through once or twice, but that’s more on the director and editors using that take.

Pascal did great as Reed, even if he doesn’t exactly look how I think Reed should. (Plus he’s just in every effing movie these days)

Ben was good, but probably the most overlooked of the four leads. Mildly annoying that they cast Micro from Punisher, but it’s an alternate universe so whatever.

Joseph Quinn was great as Johnny, but it just now hit me that he looks like a younger, blonder RDJ clone.

Silver Surfer was awesome. I have zero issue with the gender bending. You’d have to rewrite Johnny’s arc or make him gay otherwise. Silver Surfer was always a cool character to me, growing up. But not someone I’m super attached to, so yeah. No complaints there.

This barely felt like an MCU to me, so it really will feel like a true crossover when they show up in Doomsday. I still don’t like the whole RDJ thing, but after this I’m finally excited to see more. Although I wouldn’t be surprised if they both get pushed back again.

The 828 thing was cool, didn’t realize we’re so close to Jack Kirby’s birthday until the end of the credits.