IronHeart disney + Series

[Autbot_Benz]

Looks like RIRI Willams is getting her own series

https://i.imgur.com/LXX7YQA.jpg

[neatoman]

Does anyone actually care about this character? What was the last comic she was part of?

[Autbot_Benz]

Does anyone actually care about this character? What was the last comic she was part of?

Riri was in the Infinity Countdown comic Champions and she had her own solo Invincible Iron Man 11 issue series back in 2006

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Good for her. But I really, really don't give a $hit.

Did her comic series even succeed? Is IronHeart even still a thing in the comics?

[Autbot_Benz]

Good for her. But I really, really don't give a $hit.

Did her comic series even succeed? Is IronHeart even still a thing in the comics?

Last I read Riri has shown up in the newest run of Iron Man that started this year

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

On the one hand, Iron Man going out like a boss was great.

On the other hand, we never did get Tony facing off against the actual Mandarin. I'm still irked by Iron Man 3. That's when I realized I would never again see a MCU movie without spoilers beforehand.

So this and Armor Wars with War Machine... I find it hard to care about Iron Man stories told without Iron Man.

[IMJ]

Last I read Riri has shown up in the newest run of Iron Man that started this year

She had no presence of note in the "Iron Man 2020" event that began earlier this year (which was garbage) and she has nothing to do with the current Cantwell and Cafu series. Which, by the way is the best Iron Man I've read since the Knauf's wrote the book back in 2007. The Iron Man comic has literally been a dismal mess starting with Matt Fraction's truly awful run that coincided with the first Iron Man movie.

Good for her. But I really, really don't give a $hit.

Did her comic series even succeed? Is IronHeart even still a thing in the comics?

Her first appearance is a back issue burner, but that's mostly supported by the modern wave of speculation investors as opposed to any true cult of fandom for the character. This character is another Bendis-agenda-creation. The concept took over the Iron Man book for way to long. But to put it bluntly - the character was embedded into the regular Iron Man book for a year and when launched on it's own merits the Iron Heart book was not a success. It yielded nothing of note in terms story, sales, or even low print run interest. Now and again you'll find an aftermarket gougers for a Riri ratio-variant related to the short lived Iron Heart series; and the first appearance book which benefited from a ratio variant and the current comic speculation craze.

But ultimately if the character brings in new readership and makes a heroic archetype for a new generation of reader, that's cool. If the character finds it's own footing, then cool. The character wasn't "for me" so hopefully then the readership the character was for shows up. So far they haven't.

On another note, if anyone here is an Iron Man fan or collector then you should find us on Facebook under the group name, "Advanced Iron". It's the continuation of a great Iron Man website and online PDF comics magazine that was around for two decades before migrating over the Facebook.

On the one hand, Iron Man going out like a boss was great.

On the other hand, we never did get Tony facing off against the actual Mandarin. I'm still irked by Iron Man 3. That's when I realized I would never again see a MCU movie without spoilers beforehand.

So this and Armor Wars with War Machine... I find it hard to care about Iron Man stories told without Iron Man.

Iron Man 3. Where Marvel Studios catered to China for fear of box office. They called their own I.P. a "racist caricature" and instead chose to make "the Mandarin" of the movie a rich white guy. Because you know... rich white guys are evil and that's more believable than a Chinese cultural fanatic that is brilliant enough to climb to power intellectually, physically and through technological rings. That movie was a $#!( storm disaster of crap. I'm still mad about it. To this day I have never bought Iron Man 3. I won't support it financially at all.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Iron Man 3. Where Marvel Studios catered to China for fear of box office. They called their own I.P. a "racist caricature" and instead chose to make "the Mandarin" of the movie a rich white guy. Because you know... rich white guys are evil and that's more believable than a Chinese cultural fanatic that is brilliant enough to climb to power intellectually, physically and through technological rings. That movie was a $#!( storm disaster of crap. I'm still mad about it. To this day I have never bought Iron Man 3. I won't support it financially at all.

Good for you! Don't give Iron Man 3 your money... FUUCK that movie.

[Coola Yagami]

I don't why but it sometimes irks me how fast some of these characters get movies or shows when they were barely introduced in the comics. Like it took the avengers how many years to finally get a live action adaptation but it only takes Riri like 10 or so to get a live action series.

We're gonna reach the point some new character will get a movie or series before they've even had 5 solid issues out.

[IMJ]

I don't why but it sometimes irks me how fast some of these characters get movies or shows when they were barely introduced in the comics. Like it took the avengers how many years to finally get a live action adaptation but it only takes Riri like 10 or so to get a live action series.

We're gonna reach the point some new character will get a movie or series before they've even had 5 solid issues out.

It's the agenda, man. Some of these characters weren't even created altruistically. They were created by edict on the agenda or subscription to it. And so it's fast tracked. Because it's the agenda.

Like I said on a few other occasions - cool. I hope the intended audience shows up. If they do it would truly be a good thing.

I also just read that they are butchering Tony Stark's most relevant story. The story that SHOULD'VE been Iron Man 2. The Armor Wars. Now it's a T.V. series where Rhodey goes through the motions. I love Rhodey that is a complete character assassination on Stark given the content of that amazing arc from Iron Man vol 1 #225 - 232.

As a side bar, one of my claims to nerd-fame:
https://i.imgur.com/M1k8YUS.jpg

[sdp]

It's too bad we never got a second Iron Man Trilogy or at the very least an Iron Man 4, why? Now Tony Stark is dead and it's too late, I'm ok with Ironheart eventually becoming Iron Man and being the new Iron Man in a movie until Tony Stark is recast and they find some comic book reason as to why Tony is alive.

[Leo656]

Y'know, if they really wanted to bring Tony Stark back in the movies, there's precedent in the comics, albeit in a story not everybody liked very much. I'm sure IMJ knows the one I mean.

They did a story once when Tony Stark was brainwashed by some bad guy (Kang, I think his name was?) and became a villain, and so the Avengers had to go back in time and pluck a much younger Tony Stark from before he was brainwashed out of the past and bring him to the present to fight his older, corrupted self. I think "Evil Tony" died and then Teenage Tony became the new Iron Man full-time for a while. I forget how the arc ended, I think it had something to do with the whole "Heroes Reborn" nonsense.

I mean, they'd have to change most of the details quite a bit, but they could still use the same basic "pull a younger Tony Stark out of the past" gimmick if they decide that their universe needs Iron Man for the movies that badly. It wouldn't even need to be a teenager, since that was seemingly the most contentious part of the angle. They could just as well use a younger actor who's 20-something and do it that way. And they've already established time travel as a plot device.

As soon as I heard they'd killed off Tony Stark in the movies - especially one with such a heavy focus on time travel - that's the first thing I thought of as to how they could bring him back eventually. I wouldn't give up on ever seeing Iron Man in the movies again. Something tells me they'll do some variation of this exact idea before too long. And it would fit the MCU track record of doing things "kinda sorta" from the comics but doing them completely differently.

[Coola Yagami]

Y'know, if they really wanted to bring Tony Stark back in the movies, there's precedent in the comics, albeit in a story not everybody liked very much. I'm sure IMJ knows the one I mean.

They did a story once when Tony Stark was brainwashed by some bad guy (Kang, I think his name was?) and became a villain, and so the Avengers had to go back in time and pluck a much younger Tony Stark from before he was brainwashed out of the past and bring him to the present to fight his older, corrupted self. I think "Evil Tony" died and then Teenage Tony became the new Iron Man full-time for a while. I forget how the arc ended, I think it had something to do with the whole "Heroes Reborn" nonsense.

I mean, they'd have to change most of the details quite a bit, but they could still use the same basic "pull a younger Tony Stark out of the past" gimmick if they decide that their universe needs Iron Man for the movies that badly. It wouldn't even need to be a teenager, since that was seemingly the most contentious part of the angle. They could just as well use a younger actor who's 20-something and do it that way. And they've already established time travel as a plot device.

As soon as I heard they'd killed off Tony Stark in the movies - especially one with such a heavy focus on time travel - that's the first thing I thought of as to how they could bring him back eventually. I wouldn't give up on ever seeing Iron Man in the movies again. Something tells me they'll do some variation of this exact idea before too long. And it would fit the MCU track record of doing things "kinda sorta" from the comics but doing them completely differently.

Only problem I see with this is, if they bring back Tony in the current MCU instead of an all-new reboot.... that new guy is gonna have some big shoes to fill. Not only woul he have to play Tony, he'd also better be damn good at all of Robert Downey Jr's mannerisms and such.

[Leo656]

Meh. Characters are bigger than actors. They always say "The new guy probably won't live up to the other guy" and 99% of the time the new guy does even better.

I've always found Downey very smarmy and unlikeable, personally. And yeah, I get it, "That's Tony Stark" and therefore he's perfect for it. But it gets old after a while. Like I love Bill Murray, too, but he's got the same kinda "Everyone in this room is a complete idiot except for me" thing going on and sometimes it's a little tiresome.

But yeah, they'll get a new guy eventually and it'll probably be fine. Possibly even better. I just have a very hard time believing they'll never have Iron Man in a movie again, and I don't think they'll wait for a full reboot to go there. We'll see.

[sdp]

I don't see them bringing Tony Stark anytime soon but in 10 years, he's fair game and I don't think they'll do a straight up reboot, most likely a soft reboot of sorts to bring in new actors for the older heroes of the MCU while still maintaining the newer heroes of the MCU. That's if superhero movies don't collapse in the next few years, in that case then yeah full reboot eventually.

[IMJ]

Y'know, if they really wanted to bring Tony Stark back in the movies, there's precedent in the comics, albeit in a story not everybody liked very much. I'm sure IMJ knows the one I mean.

They did a story once when Tony Stark was brainwashed by some bad guy (Kang, I think his name was?) and became a villain, and so the Avengers had to go back in time and pluck a much younger Tony Stark from before he was brainwashed out of the past and bring him to the present to fight his older, corrupted self. I think "Evil Tony" died and then Teenage Tony became the new Iron Man full-time for a while. I forget how the arc ended, I think it had something to do with the whole "Heroes Reborn" nonsense.

I mean, they'd have to change most of the details quite a bit, but they could still use the same basic "pull a younger Tony Stark out of the past" gimmick if they decide that their universe needs Iron Man for the movies that badly. It wouldn't even need to be a teenager, since that was seemingly the most contentious part of the angle. They could just as well use a younger actor who's 20-something and do it that way. And they've already established time travel as a plot device.

As soon as I heard they'd killed off Tony Stark in the movies - especially one with such a heavy focus on time travel - that's the first thing I thought of as to how they could bring him back eventually. I wouldn't give up on ever seeing Iron Man in the movies again. Something tells me they'll do some variation of this exact idea before too long. And it would fit the MCU track record of doing things "kinda sorta" from the comics but doing them completely differently.

I absolutely believe they are going to do this on film to be honest. They are setting up Kang as the next big bad after they cast the guy from Lovecraft Country in the role.

Only problem I see with this is, if they bring back Tony in the current MCU instead of an all-new reboot.... that new guy is gonna have some big shoes to fill. Not only woul he have to play Tony, he'd also better be damn good at all of Robert Downey Jr's mannerisms and such.

I think we talked about this in another thread. Everyone felt the same way about Connery as James Bond, and now here we are 28 films later or whatever... Also the new guy wouldn't have to act like Downey. Downey created a Stark that was akin to him, not akin to what the comics produced. In many ways it's actually ashame that everyone thinks Tony Stark is a wise-ass, ass-wipe personality hero. That's actually not the character at all until that's what Downey did with it. And how he's like it in the books and it's awful.

I always felt that personality was okay in the first movie. Because the events of the first movie are what is supposed to change him. But they ran with it throughout all of the films. I didn't hate it by any means, but it wasn't right. We are actually having a discussion very similar to this on the Advanced Iron group because of all of the Iron Man related news that was just dropped - all of it without friggin' Iron Man.

[Andrew NDB]

What, you guys really don't think the "real Mandarin" (who has been foreshadowed since way back in the "All Hail the King" short) will show up in "Shang-Chi and the Legend of the 10 Rings"? I figured that was a sure thing.

Did her comic series even succeed?

Last I read Riri has shown up in the newest run of Iron Man that started this year

One thing doesn't have much to do with the other. :)

[IMJ]

What, you guys really don't think the "real Mandarin" (who has been foreshadowed since way back in the "All Hail the King" short) will show up in "Shang-Chi and the Legend of the 10 Rings"? I figured that was a sure thing.





One thing doesn't have much to do with the other. :)

Oh it's already confirmed that he is. And it's frustrating as hell. Especially how Marvel went on about how their own intellectual property was a racist caricature as their excuse to keep the character out of Iron Man 3 and to appease China for the box office.

But now they have Shang Chi so I guess that was all talk and bull ****.

It's very frustrating.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh it's already confirmed that he is. And it's frustrating as hell. Especially how Marvel went on about how their own intellectual property was a racist caricature as their excuse to keep the character out of Iron Man 3 and to appease China for the box office.

But now they have Shang Chi so I guess that was all talk and bull ****.

Maybe they figure as long as it's not a straight white guy fighting him, it's more OK? Or they'll make the Mandarin into a robot or an AI or something. They can't go supernatural or bye bye China dollars.

[Leo656]

If it's streaming-only they can more or less say "Bye Bye ANY kinda dollars". So in the end it really doesn't matter, does it?

[IMJ]

I'd say that the fans that made these franchises billions are now growing very disenfranchised because Endgame tied things up terminally for the character interactions that most people wanted. Combine that with the fatigue in knowing that the "M-SHE-U" is going woke in most of it's films. So you'll have the addicts and zombies go and say every new movie is "the bestest Marvel movie yet!" but I'm really curious as to how the box office patterns are going to go.

As for upcoming flicks, the only one I plan on paying to see is Dr. Strange. I have little to no interest in much else on their slate. Maybe a Shang Chi trailer will be cut that looks awesome, but I think the only way I'm going to really care is if they reveal that Iron Man guest stars in it and we see an Iron Man / Mandarin conclusion, which would of course be ridiculous in a Shang-Chi flick.

I'm curious about Black Widow because of the Winter Soldier vibes. But my excitement is widely gone with Endgame. These flicks are more for regular theater goers now. They'll cheer at anything that Marvel puts on screen because "that's what you do". Even though the cheering was originally comic fans excitement and seeing certain moments on screen. I don't even like what I'm writing right now because I could develop all of the point so much, but it would just come off as infinite negativity to a group of "normie fans" who think those movies are all amazing.

[Leo656]

Nothing to apologize for in that statement.

Scorsese nailed it. They don't make "movies", they make theme park rides.

[CylonsKlingonsDaleksOhMy]

Frankly, I'm in the same boat.

I'm finding it very hard to feel excited about the TV shows, because Marvel already crushed the superior Netflix shows like Daredevil and Punisher. I'd be a whole lot more interested in Daredevil Season 4 than Loki Season 1.

And the movies are in a weird holding pattern. The MCU was always about generating interest in the next movie and the next crossover, but now that they've shot their wad with Endgame and taken major players off the board...

I'm just not that excited for the MCU to continue. Maybe an isolated movie here and there (STILL waiting for Black Widow), but nothing's really catching my interest... I dunno, they don't need my money anyway.

I was really excited for WandaVision, but the whole sitcom spoof thing just looks corny as hell.

[ZariusTwo]

Riri was in the Infinity Countdown comic Champions and she had her own solo Invincible Iron Man 11 issue series back in 2006


2016, and eleven issues really isn't saying much

She had no presence of note in the "Iron Man 2020" event that began earlier this year (which was garbage) and she has nothing to do with the current Cantwell and Cafu series. Which, by the way is the best Iron Man I've read since the Knauf's wrote the book back in 2007

I don't see how, it's literally just the "Patsy Walker Fun time Adventure Co-Starring Tony"

Tony as a character was ruined by the comic book version of Civil War, Marvel have never been able to fully rebuild him from that, and constantly rewrite his personality and memories in an attempt to get him away from the fascist he was in that story. All to no avail because the readers don't appreciate having their intelligence insulted. He should be realistically locked up and never spoken of again. That's how irredeemable he is now.

I say this as someone who really doesn't like most of the MCU, but the movies salvaged Tony in ways that the comics branch failed to do, and they've only doubled down on their blunders since then.

[AquaParade]

Between this and Armor Wars, I think it's cool to see the MCU carving out it's legacy and responding to it. I find it more interesting than re-casting Iron Man, bringing him back to life, or trying to forget about his impact on that world. At least for now. So all in all, I think this is pretty cool.

I'm actually quite excited for the MCU right now. I've always been a fan, but I'd consider about half their films to be straight up boring in my eyes. What I like about now, is that a lot of shackles are being taken off of the MCU and there is a lot of potential for new and exciting stories, that hopefully can get away from the monotony that has plagued some of their output.
I'm referring to:

1. The fact that they are finally a good distance apart from the era of Kevin Feige having to report to Ike, leading to more freedom and risk taking. While Ike has been out of the picture for a few years now, the rate at which these things are planned means it is only now that we are going to start seeing the fruits of Kevin Feige's freedom.

2. as much as I love the MCU take on Cap and Iron Man, I'm ready to move on from them. They've had a ton of great moments and each went through a somewhat interesting character arc with a suitable ending. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, I'd like to see more of the weird, experimental stuff. Moon Knight, you say? That's what I'm talking about.

3. Lastly, they have gained so much goodwill with audiences at this point, they can afford to take those risks. This is when things may actually begin to get interesting.

Now, if Eternals is just Avengers or Guardians with a different coat of paint, that'll be too bad. I'm hoping they are using such an unknown brand so they can actually experiment and carve out something fresh.

[Andrew NDB]

They should have just taken my idea and had Tony get zapped by the time gem mid-battle at some point in Infinity War or Endgame... poof, he's a younger man and we get a new actor.

[IMJ]

They should have just taken my idea and had Tony had zapped by the time gem mid-battle at some point in Infinity War or Endgame... poof, he's a younger man and we get a new actor.

This is actually the biggest threat from movies that hold continuity. It's something we always wanted, but now you are in a corner to the continuity at all costs. Even if the multiverse gives access to variation in the story, it's all got to come from the multi-verse explanation now.

I'm not looking forward to 5 to 7 years down the road when Kang is fully fleshed out and they bring Tony back in an Avengers flick as a pawn of Kang. And the normies will cheer at that.

[ZariusTwo]

Trans character to be introduced

https://www.pinknews.co.uk/2022/04/02/marvel-trans-woman-ironheart/

[Andrew NDB]

Now filming:

https://www.darkhorizons.com/marvels-ironheart-series-is-now-filming/

[ProphetofGanja]

Eh, like previously mentioned in this thread, I'm having a hard time caring about this series. Ironheart is such a new character, I know nothing about her yet. Also I can tell she was created to appeal to new, younger demographics. Whatever, as long as someone gets enjoyment out of it I guess it's OK.

I'm just waiting to see the trailer for Wakanda Forever to see what story teases we get

[Autbot_Benz]

First look at The Hood and Riri's armor

https://i.imgur.com/NisMLOP.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/eapvK9Z.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/dlrk5ny.jpg

https://www.justjared.com/2022/08/08/anthony-ramos-dominique-thorne-spotted-filming-marvels-ironheart-first-pics/

[Coola Yagami]

Eh, like previously mentioned in this thread, I'm having a hard time caring about this series. Ironheart is such a new character, I know nothing about her yet. Also I can tell she was created to appeal to new, younger demographics. Whatever, as long as someone gets enjoyment out of it I guess it's OK.

I'm just waiting to see the trailer for Wakanda Forever to see what story teases we get

To be honest, a lot of these woke token replacements seem to be created on purpose just to have them be in live action adaptations.

[Andrew NDB]

To be honest, a lot of these woke token replacements seem to be created on purpose just to have them be in live action adaptations.

Doubtlessly. Because then they can say, "B-b-b-but she's from the comics!!"

[ProphetofGanja]

I'll admit, I'm more curious about this show now that they've done some filming for it in my neighborhood. They built a whole fake White Castle that looks like it'll feature in a chase/fight scene, and I also saw an auto shop and parking lot with some damaged vehicles that look like they may be part of the same sequence.

[ZariusTwo]

Borat/Ali G Sacha Baron Cohen reportedly cast as Mephisto and will debut in this

https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-sacha-baron-cohen-mephisto

[neatoman]

Borat/Ali G Sacha Baron Cohen reportedly cast as Mephisto and will debut in this

https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-sacha-baron-cohen-mephisto

... And now I'm starting to imagine Borat telling Spider-Man to get divorced...

[TigerClaw]

Borat/Ali G Sacha Baron Cohen reportedly cast as Mephisto and will debut in this

https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-sacha-baron-cohen-mephisto
That's an interesting casting choice, Is Mephisto a comedic character in the comics, Like he's not taken seriously?

[Coola Yagami]

Borat/Ali G Sacha Baron Cohen reportedly cast as Mephisto and will debut in this

https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-sacha-baron-cohen-mephisto

Yep, so let's waste a top villain like Mephisto on schlock like this. That dude should have been in the movies, or at the very least in Wandavision.

I don't want to give up on the MCU entirely, but they're not making it easy. They've taken liberties before and already botched the Mandarin to the point Tony Stark died before ever meeting the real one, but now it's clear they have tossed everything out the window and are just using whoever they can whenever they can, actual comics be damned. The MCU just isn't actual Marvel anymore. It's become 'what normies think Marvel is like'.

Kinda like how some people now think Casey was a recurring character in the 80's how and the Turtles used their shortened nicknames back then but multiplied by a thousand.

Wake me up next Spider-Man movie I guess.

[ZariusTwo]

Is Mephisto a comedic character in the comics, Like he's not taken seriously?

He's had a few light-hearted stories (like the one Spider-Man rescues the spirit of Christmas from him and one where he tries to get a date) but for the most part he's portrayed as a big threat.(He was eventually responsible for erasing Spdier-Man's marriage in One More Day)

The current storylines in the comics are building towards Mephisto going to war with the Avengers, and he has assembled a 'council of red' assembled from all his variants in the multiverse

[IMJ]

I have traditionally not been a fan of Cohen's stuff. But more and more the MCU is making material that I care little to nothing about. So now my operating heuristic is generally to wait for a trailer or more info.

And then based on that, if it seems like woke $#!(, then I don't pay for it. And then I look to see if it has woke $#!(, and if it does, I don't pay for it. Lastly, I look to see if there are replacement characters, race swaps, gender messaging or other broadcasted identity politics that are indicative of woke $#!( and if there is, then I don't pay for it. Then of a last resort I check to see if the casting enhanced the movie or seemed like it had something to do with agenda or some other nonsense. And if it does, then I don't pay for it.

So basically I have only actually given money to a Marvel production two times since April, 2019 - once for Avengers: Endgame and once for Spider-Man: No Way Home. So I guess you could say that I've helped the cause because even those two flicks had some woke $#( inorganically or opportunistically shoved into them too.

[ProphetofGanja]

He's had a few light-hearted stories (like the one Spider-Man rescues the spirit of Christmas from him and one where he tries to get a date) but for the most part he's portrayed as a big threat.(He was eventually responsible for erasing Spdier-Man's marriage in One More Day)

The current storylines in the comics are building towards Mephisto going to war with the Avengers, and he has assembled a 'council of red' assembled from all his variants in the multiverse

Have you guys seen The Trial of the Chicago 7? Les Mis? Sh!t even Sweeney Todd? Dude can definitely act in more serious fare. His take on Mephisto is something I eagerly look forward to

[Autbot_Benz]

Famous Voice Actor Cree Summer will be in this her role hasn't ben disclosed yet

https://marvelousnews.com/286-31900?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

[Autbot_Benz]

Ironheart, a show focused on genius-inventor Riri Williams (Dominique Thorne) first introduced in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, was to have dropped this fall but that is now off the schedule. It finished shooting but its completion is affected by the strikes.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/marvel-tv-show-release-dates-1235580093/

[Sumac]

Heh. Might follow fate of DC's Batgirl.

[IMJ]

Heh. Might follow fate of DC's Batgirl.

Nah this will get released. They need to have several people overtly say on camera "Riri is smarter than Tony Stark!". 8)

[Coola Yagami]

Nah this will get released. They need to have several people overtly say on camera "Riri is smarter than Tony Stark!". 8)

That's literally Riri's whole shtick.

I believe in one of her first issues she got upset at her teacher for saying she can achieve anything she wants to do, but she was expecting her to say that 'she can't' so she could prove her wrong. Conceited little bitch from the get-go.

[Andrew NDB]

If there had been a pocket of time where we actually saw Tony take her under his wing for a minute and develop a mentor/student relationship, this might have worked or at least been... something. As is, this is fully poised to piss over Iron Man in the most egregious manner while wearing racism-plated critic armor.

[Sumac]

If there had been a pocket of time where we actually saw Tony take her under his wing for a minute and develop a mentor/student relationship, this might have worked or at least been... something. As is, this is fully poised to piss over Iron Man in the most egregious manner while wearing racism-plated critic armor.
Gladly, this stuff doesn't impact quality of the work or general audience opinion on it. Like in case with Ms. Marvel - insulated from criticism by "DIVERSITY", yet, arguably, one of the biggest TV flops in MCU history.

And even not in a way, where SJW trash can yap about "muh racisms", its just most people don't give a **** about it, which is arguably worse, since you can't make a scandal out of nothing and for the work of art, irrelevance is worse than a negative opinion.

Though, even, when SJWs manage to throw a hissy fit, it doesn't help - She-Hulk was their darling, yet, not much of a success.

[Andrew NDB]

So the show wrapped all the way back last November and was supposed to come out next year... but now won't come out until September of 2025?

https://www.cbr.com/ironheart-series-debut-pushed-back/#:~:text=The%20Ironheart%20series%20is%20scheduled ,3%2C%202025.

Talk about serious reshoots and retooling. Or will this even come out at all, in the post-Ms-Marvel-and-the-Marvels-flopped-hard era? And are we even sure Armor Wars is happening now? About the only thing they could possibly do to make IronHeart palatable is to put her in the Armor Wars movie first and kind of give Rhodey the Tony Stark role in the comics with her, with her working under Rhodey and earning his respect while learning a thing or two... THEN do the IronHeart series, and include Rhodey in it as well. Throw in a couple of flashbacks with younger her and RDJ... they might be OK. I don't see anything less succeeding.

[IMJ]

They have already f'd up "Armor Wars" by adapting it for Rhodey. "Armor Wars" is the definitive Iron Man story. Fools running Disney Marvel.

[Coola Yagami]

So the show wrapped all the way back last November and was supposed to come out next year... but now won't come out until September of 2025?

https://www.cbr.com/ironheart-series-debut-pushed-back/#:~:text=The%20Ironheart%20series%20is%20scheduled ,3%2C%202025.

Talk about serious reshoots and retooling. Or will this even come out at all, in the post-Ms-Marvel-and-the-Marvels-flopped-hard era? And are we even sure Armor Wars is happening now? About the only thing they could possibly do to make IronHeart palatable is to put her in the Armor Wars movie first and kind of give Rhodey the Tony Stark role in the comics with her, with her working under Rhodey and earning his respect while learning a thing or two... THEN do the IronHeart series, and include Rhodey in it as well. Throw in a couple of flashbacks with younger her and RDJ... they might be OK. I don't see anything less succeeding.

Nowadays it's more about boomer Rhodey having to earn Riri's respect.

[Andrew NDB]

It finished shooting again.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/ironheart-star-talks-filming-conclusion/

[Andrew NDB]

Riri will be bisexual in it.

https://magicalclan.com/marvels-ironheart-promises-fresh-twists-with-familiar-vibes/?fbclid=IwY2xjawFnrddleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHfoCq3p0G8ht hmm78oStMaZk5qmcfdQ5nKR0iR39yiNcKzL2xns0Edq4bg_aem _Jp8HGk8k6CoCeTFcwQyjEA

[ToTheNines]

https://i.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/facebook/001/583/120/22f.jpg

[neatoman]

Riri will be bisexual in it.

https://magicalclan.com/marvels-ironheart-promises-fresh-twists-with-familiar-vibes/?fbclid=IwY2xjawFnrddleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHfoCq3p0G8ht hmm78oStMaZk5qmcfdQ5nKR0iR39yiNcKzL2xns0Edq4bg_aem _Jp8HGk8k6CoCeTFcwQyjEA

Wasn't there an instance in the comics where she freaked out about being hit on by a woman?

[Bahamut810]

Wasn't there an instance in the comics where she freaked out about being hit on by a woman?

Researched and It looks like it was with Viv Vision, and she completely rejected the advance. There are rumors that Writer Jim Zub was planning to have it happen and it was rejected when he vague-posted about not being able to do a relationship.

Shipping Fandom VivHeart (https://shipping.fandom.com/wiki/Vivheart)

I dont like Ironheart to begin with so its whatever to me...but, lets be honest. This is Disney. Everything that does not *have* to be successful will be gay.

[neatoman]

This is Disney. Everything that does not *have* to be successful will be gay.

AJS4JHYgj50

[Autbot_Benz]

They are seriously releasing the Trailer for this the same day as the first Superman Trailer :lol:

Marvel nobody gives a **** about Ironheart

Also. 3 episode premiere June 24th

[Andrew NDB]

This is going to bomb so hard. It's not even like with "The Marvels" where you would have pockets of lefties saying how "important" the movie will be and how much they're excited for it... there is NOBODY saying anything good about Ironheart or that they're looking forward to it, or even bothering to defend it from scrutiny.

[Autbot_Benz]

This is going to bomb so hard. It's not even like with "The Marvels" where you would have pockets of lefties saying how "important" the movie will be and how much they're excited for it... there is NOBODY saying anything good about Ironheart or that they're looking forward to it, or even bothering to defend it from scrutiny.

The Marketing has been nonexistent so shows how much faith Marvel has in it

[ZariusTwo]

Marketing is s*it and Riri hasn't been a big deal in the comics for years now

[ToTheNines]

This is going to bomb so hard. It's not even like with "The Marvels" where you would have pockets of lefties saying how "important" the movie will be and how much they're excited for it... there is NOBODY saying anything good about Ironheart or that they're looking forward to it, or even bothering to defend it from scrutiny.

I never read a single Re-re comic, but I remember when Marvel was pushing her as a character and a few people were feigning excitement but literally no one was out there even pretending it was some amazing, must-read book.

BUT… I will say that from what I know about her, she at least had some relationship with Tony in the comics, so there was a shred of legitimacy to her as a hero. The MCU introducing her after he’s dead and gone is stupid. People would rather see War Machine, Harley, or even Morgan Stark.

[ToTheNines]

_Ercl9qMzVU?si=lW-wNpeVXNrT5XE6

FAKE trailer is out. Just a phony featurette. Every single interviewee appears to be being held at gunpoint haha

[IMJ]

"eat hot chip"

[Autbot_Benz]

I watched the trailer and this show is the textbook definition of generic and bland looking

[Coola Yagami]

I never read a single Re-re comic, but I remember when Marvel was pushing her as a character and a few people were feigning excitement but literally no one was out there even pretending it was some amazing, must-read book.

BUT… I will say that from what I know about her, she at least had some relationship with Tony in the comics, so there was a shred of legitimacy to her as a hero. The MCU introducing her after he’s dead and gone is stupid. People would rather see War Machine, Harley, or even Morgan Stark.

Riri is one of those characters where the internet goes on and on about how stunning and brave she is (or Marvel is for having her) and complain about whenever she gets shunned or whatever.... but no one is actually buying or reading her books.

The part that gets me that made me dislike her is before Iron Heart, when she asked her teacher if she could be whatever she wants to be and the teacher said yes. Riri was actually disappointed because she wanted the teacher to say no just so that she had someone to prove wrong. Even the teacher was like 'why would I say that?' If anything it reflects the modern say Twitter mindset, where people just want to create these imaginary dragons to slay.

[IMJ]

It's evidence of the nature of the times when Feige says, like a blunt force hammer, "Riri is smarter than Tony Stark!". Sort of the same as his virtuous "Captain Marvel is stronger than an infinity stone" line.

And we are all supposed to be excited about it and scream for it in "Hall H".

Now pay for it, dogs! Pay for it!

[Andrew NDB]

It would have already been unlikely, but they might have had something defensible if they'd at least paired her with Tony in a project or two before he died. This, as is... this is like the sum of every "bad" DEI character replacement all amalgamated into one character and one show.

[IMJ]

Riri had very, very little traction in the comics. And the traction that she did have can be assigned to two solid reasons:

-the common cheerleading associated with the virtue-signaling of the time. Therefore mostly synthetic interest.

-the book flippers pushed two or three Riri books for "the cash grab of the moment", and two of those three Riri books were an incredibly hard to find ratio variant (the Apocalypse variant) and the other was a low-print run Riri variant from an obscure comic shop. The third was simply her standard 1st appearance. And so the market action for the character was basically hype or true supply shock.

But those two reasons aside, I don't know anyone who wanted this character and felt that it was somehow "the future of Iron Man". Just more of "The Power Rangering of everything".

[Andrew NDB]

I remember a lot of voices on the internet years ago telling me that "No no no, Ironheart is really good and an example of a legacy character done right!" but then I never actually saw any iota of evidence to support that.

[IMJ]

Rhodey being forced into the suit out of friendship and then evolving into his own character with something like War Machine is an example of a legacy character being done right.

Riri is just woke $#!( for phony-virtue where someone took Tony Stark, flipped his race and gender and threw him into hoodrat life while saying "she's smarter than Tony too!". It might as well be a What If...? Story. "What If...? Tony Stark was a Black Girl In Urban Chicago". It's woke $#!( with all of the earmarks of woke $#!( culture.

It's the creation of simple-minded social-justice from a guy who did nothing more than steal the "Stark Template" and "woke it up" because he had black daughters in real life (aka Brian-Michael Bendis).

"Inclusion" is a character and character-driven evolution like Rhodey. Woke $#!( is "infiltration" with a clown-character like Riri pasted over a legacy character as if that's "the new way forward".

The "Power Rangering" of everything for the simple-minded. "Durp we all same. I same karate power as you, who is da same as da other color. Easy, see? Durp we all same. Strive for nothing be-cuzz we all same, see each other in same durp"

[Coola Yagami]

As much hate as Kamala gets, Riri gets more tenfold. I know Kamala has her own comic and I guess appears in the X-Men comics too. What comic is Riri even in nowadays?

[Andrew NDB]

As much hate as Kamala gets, Riri gets more tenfold.

I've seen the opposite in comic book crowds. Though you're right in terms of the MCU, and for pretty obvious reasons. Iron Man isn't dead in the comics, but in the MCU he's dead and they're pretty literally trying to replace him with her right in front of us.

[Andrew NDB]

r6j-wSIqJJ0

Yikes @ that last scene there.

[Coola Yagami]

I've seen the opposite in comic book crowds. Though you're right in terms of the MCU, and for pretty obvious reasons. Iron Man isn't dead in the comics, but in the MCU he's dead and they're pretty literally trying to replace him with her right in front of us.

The Riri/Iron Heart stuff started while Tony was in a coma after the fight he had with Carol at the end of Civil War 2.

I have the non-consistent characterization characters have since they change from writer to writer. Once her rage subsided, Carol felt bad for what she did to Tony and was relieved he survived.

But come the next Avengers book after that event, where Carol and Tony have a disagreement, she had to be like 'or did I have to put you in a coma again'. ARGH.

Also I noticed one of the characters that kinda slipped in obscurity is America Chavez. I don't hear nothing about her. Unless she's on a team or something I don't think she has her own series currently.

What were her powers again? Just increased strength or something? Dodging deportation?

[Andrew NDB]

Also I noticed one of the characters that kinda slipped in obscurity is America Chavez. I don't hear nothing about her. Unless she's on a team or something I don't think she has her own series currently.

What were her powers again? Just increased strength or something? Dodging deportation?

Oh, Captain Two Moms? Her superpower was her two moms. Or at least, that's why it was so important Dr. Strange 2 be molded into a vehicle for her.

Supposedly she was going to be the "key" to the Multiverse Saga, Feige was saying. But that's when it was going to be the Kang Dynasty and so on. Probably they were going to give her a Disney+ show before Ms. Marvel and The Marvels bombed as a one-two punch. She'll probably pop up in some little cameo in one of the next two Avengers movies and if she gets a big reaction, maybe they'll do something else with her but if not, then probably not.

[Coola Yagami]

Oh, Captain Two Moms? Her superpower was her two moms. Or at least, that's why it was so important Dr. Strange 2 be molded into a vehicle for her.

Supposedly she was going to be the "key" to the Multiverse Saga, Feige was saying. But that's when it was going to be the Kang Dynasty and so on. Probably they were going to give her a Disney+ show before Ms. Marvel and The Marvels bombed as a one-two punch. She'll probably pop up in some little cameo in one of the next two Avengers movies and if she gets a big reaction, maybe they'll do something else with her but if not, then probably not.

Well I meant more like the actual comics, but yeah so far it sounds like Multiverse was her only appearance so far?

[Autbot_Benz]

Well I meant more like the actual comics, but yeah so far it sounds like Multiverse was her only appearance so far?

America possesses superhuman strength, durability, and speed, as well as the power of flight. She can make physical contact with non-corporeal points of existence, allowing her to apparently touch a gravitational singularity’s center and to create interdimensional portals by punching the air or stomping her foot, literally breaking the barriers that separate dimensions; her eyes, necklace, and wrist tattoos glow when she creates such portals.


https://www.marvel.com/characters/miss-america-america-chavez/in-comics



.

[Andrew NDB]

America possesses superhuman strength, durability, and speed, as well as the power of flight. She can make physical contact with non-corporeal points of existence, allowing her to apparently touch a gravitational singularity’s center and to create interdimensional portals by punching the air or stomping her foot, literally breaking the barriers that separate dimensions; her eyes, necklace, and wrist tattoos glow when she creates such portals.


https://www.marvel.com/characters/miss-america-america-chavez/in-comics



.

Best, strongest character EVARRRR!!!

[IMJ]

All I can say is that way back in the day Brian Michael Bendis wrote an amazing, amazing character with Iron Man in his New Avengers books. And from that point forward I spent several years sort of bringing up discussion to the Advanced Iron guys how amazing a Bendis-Iron Man run could be. And then his run on the actual title finally arrived in 2015, and I was so excited for it!

And instead of delivering a compelling, well-written story or what I was hoping would be a definitive Iron Man run (which we've needed for years now), he spent 3 years delivering a dog$#!( agenda-title. He introduces Riri basically on behalf of his real-life adopted black daughters. And she overruns and overtakes Iron Man's title for a couple year while some strange positioning for Tony takes place over in Infamous Iron Man in a one-year "mini-series" of nonsense.

Bendis had what it takes to churn out an Iron Man run for the ages, but he went full-liberal-BS. Riri is an awful "replacement character" in full-on Liberal mania written as a Mary Sue and intended to signal how virtuous her creator was rather than anything truly compelling or well developed.

And so, Bendis puked out a run of garbage up there with what Frank Tieri's awful run, and possibly worse than Matt Fraction's run of garbage that was bolstered only by ratio-incentives to boost print runs, and probably only surpassed in "awful" by Kieron Gillen's run (which if you don't know what happened in that run, you're better off not knowing). If Bendis didn't have his head up his @$$ with Virtue-ego then he might've chosen to write some amazing Rhodey-driven "War Machine" book that introduced Riri in some kind of organic capacity to a story of meaning. But instead he pulled a Kevin Feige on-page.

Riri Williams is a dog$#!( character. I'll take Rhodey anyday as Iron Man's valid diversity-character.

[Galactus]

Marketing is s*it and Riri hasn't been a big deal in the comics for years now

I would argue she's never been a particularly big deal in the comics. She headlined a book towards the end of that publishing initiative so didn't have a big moment in any of the big events of that time. Still that's no reason for the character not to have a Disney+ series. The comic industry in general is filled to the brim with characters that aren't popular enough to carry their own series but are just popular enough to be dusted off every few years to have another attempt. Some might argue that a 6-9 episode streaming series is the best place for these kinds of characters.

Rhodey being forced into the suit out of friendship and then evolving into his own character with something like War Machine is an example of a legacy character being done right.

The reason that Rhodey became Iron Man was because then writer Denny O'Neil felt it impossible to relate to capitalist Tony Stark so decided he needed to humble him by having relapse into alcoholism, lose his company, end up homeless and have his super hero identity taken over by a black guy. Which was honestly an awesome story and better than when he made John Stewart a Green Lantern just to sass Hal Jordan. It was totally woke, like way woker than Riri Williams just existing.

Oh, Captain Two Moms? Her superpower was her two moms. Or at least, that's why it was so important Dr. Strange 2 be molded into a vehicle for her.

Supposedly she was going to be the "key" to the Multiverse Saga, Feige was saying. But that's when it was going to be the Kang Dynasty and so on. Probably they were going to give her a Disney+ show before Ms. Marvel and The Marvels bombed as a one-two punch. She'll probably pop up in some little cameo in one of the next two Avengers movies and if she gets a big reaction, maybe they'll do something else with her but if not, then probably not.

You've got a Multiverse Saga of course you're going to include the character whose whole thing is being able to travel the multiverse. It'd be like making a symbiot arc in Spider-Man movie series and not including Venom at some point. That being said Multiverse of Madness was no more a vehicle for America Chavez than it was a big screen follow up to the very popular Wandavison, a character piece for Stephen Strange, cool cameos and Sam Raimi doing his horror stuff but in the Marvel house style. There's no grand conspiracy to turn the Doctor Strange series into a vehicle to promote lesbians.

[IMJ]

The reason that Rhodey became Iron Man was because then writer Denny O'Neil felt it impossible to relate to capitalist Tony Stark so decided he needed to humble him by having relapse into alcoholism, lose his company, end up homeless and have his super hero identity taken over by a black guy. Which was honestly an awesome story and better than when he made John Stewart a Green Lantern just to sass Hal Jordan. It was totally woke, like way woker than Riri Williams just existing.

And there's nothing wrong with Denny's perspective beyond that he littered that run with the strangest content from the zeitgeist of his era making that run a real slog to read.

But beyond that, no.

Rhodey's ascension in the armor was a character evolution that coincided with Tony's character evolution and culminated in a powerful return in an unmatched triumph with issue 200. O'Neil's run was your standard-fare character deconstruction so as to reassemble with greater strength and purpose. O'Neil's run wasn't "woke". It was a character-story.

Riri was woke-replacement dog $#!( from the beginning.

[Galactus]

And there's nothing wrong with Denny's perspective beyond that he littered that run with the strangest content from the zeitgeist of his era making that run a real slog to read.

But beyond that, no.

Rhodey's ascension in the armor was a character evolution that coincided with Tony's character evolution and culminated in a powerful return in an unmatched triumph with issue 200. O'Neil's run was your standard-fare character deconstruction so as to reassemble with greater strength and purpose. O'Neil's run wasn't "woke". It was a character-story.

Riri was woke-replacement dog $#!( from the beginning.

A lot of Denny O'Neil's work is incredibly woke. We're talking about the guy who wrote the famous Green Lantern/Green Arrow tackle socio-political issues stories. The character change O'Neil gave Stark may have felt like a 'natural evolution' to you but it was motivated by O'Neil really not liking the character because he was rich white guy. He used the story to alter Stark into something O'Neil liked better. Yeah he was still a rich white dude but at the end he had hang ups and a social conscience. He wasn't wrong to do this as the MCU characterised him like that from the the moment he got captured by the Ten Rings. I'm not sure they could have ever built a successful film franchise with a war profiteer as the protagonist.

The kind of character arc you think you got with Stark and Rhodey has more in common with a lot of the more modern 'replacement' heroes. Steve Rogers has the super soldier serum removed from his body and ages. His best friend takes over as Captain America...only for Steve to return to deliver the final blow to his evil doppelganger. Thor has a crisis of faith and can no longer wield mjolnir but his former lover does until he proves himself worthy again. Heck, Riri isn't even a replacement. She started being a street level armor clad vigilante when Stark was still active. It's only after he ends up in a coma he had his people gift her access to his tech. Even then she doesn't call herself Iron Man and since her AI was based off his brainwaves it's more of a mentor/mentee relationship.

[Andrew NDB]

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/b66/e7b/a82c856592e318ee4619bbec3a83863511-lantern-3.w710.jpg

[ToTheNines]

Yikes @ that last scene there.

I actually laughed :lol:

[neatoman]

https://pyxis.nymag.com/v1/imgs/b66/e7b/a82c856592e318ee4619bbec3a83863511-lantern-3.w710.jpg

Doesn't he technically do that everytime he helps saving the earth?

[IMJ]

A lot of Denny O'Neil's work is incredibly woke. We're talking about the guy who wrote the famous Green Lantern/Green Arrow tackle socio-political issues stories. The character change O'Neil gave Stark may have felt like a 'natural evolution' to you but it was motivated by O'Neil really not liking the character because he was rich white guy. He used the story to alter Stark into something O'Neil liked better. Yeah he was still a rich white dude but at the end he had hang ups and a social conscience. He wasn't wrong to do this as the MCU characterised him like that from the the moment he got captured by the Ten Rings. I'm not sure they could have ever built a successful film franchise with a war profiteer as the protagonist.

The kind of character arc you think you got with Stark and Rhodey has more in common with a lot of the more modern 'replacement' heroes. Steve Rogers has the super soldier serum removed from his body and ages. His best friend takes over as Captain America...only for Steve to return to deliver the final blow to his evil doppelganger. Thor has a crisis of faith and can no longer wield mjolnir but his former lover does until he proves himself worthy again. Heck, Riri isn't even a replacement. She started being a street level armor clad vigilante when Stark was still active. It's only after he ends up in a coma he had his people gift her access to his tech. Even then she doesn't call herself Iron Man and since her AI was based off his brainwaves it's more of a mentor/mentee relationship.

:lol: You're justifying wherever you can, grasping at straws to further the woke ideology you worship in a frenzy as it dies around you. O'Neil's run was more akin to "progressive" than "woke" regardless of how you want to will into your warped POV. And irony alert that the platform of worship you are trying to build is greatly hampered by the fact that a metric TON of O'Neil's written work is unreadable, drawn out narrative bore. Basically he isn't remembered for his amazing, readable stories but rather his "shocking long-form progressive" choices.

Honestly bud, you're the kind of guy who would dig in and say that Miles Davis "Bitches Brew" is a great album because you don't know any better. But it would sound good because you can argue a miscellaneous case for a black dude somewhere over an album you've heard of but don't realize is actually trash. That's you here with your tiresome O'Neil commentary in standard woke-simp style.

Riri next in line to fail. Go eat hot chip. :teek:

I actually laughed :lol:

While Galactus celebrates Denny O'Neil, he remains in huge denial about Denny's portrayal of every colored culture through cliches and stereotypes. It's awesome and just more evidence at how lost clown world clowns like Galactus are. If Clown-lactus hadn't already built locked himself into a pro-O'Niel modality here then he'd just as easily have called in a racist caricature creator in another thread where it suit his standard operating model.

[Andrew NDB]

So it's out now. And now Disney is boasting about Ironheart featuring the first drag queen and non-binary trans man in it.

https://luxury.amazingtoday.net/ironheart-ad-disaster-just-got-worse-marvel-star-boasts-about-first-drag-queen-and-non-binary-transg-taydaica/?utm_source=facebook&fbclid=IwY2xjawLJDKpleHRuA2FlbQIxMABicmlkETFmNlVsd U1mRWdhalpFZ3JBAR5tCScpZPVUoqkdC4hEG4cnqVZnWIouGt6 oC1hRfOXiKEyD9a_1YO5zEkEf4g_aem_7osEyXnSNTAHRz-VI4dpmw

You'd think they'd want to try and make the show at least nominally more palatable and not less, but hey, what do I know?

[ZariusTwo]

Speak of the devil and he appears, Mephisto makes his MCU debut

[Andrew NDB]

I skipped to the end of the last episode to see that.

Sacha Baron Cohen's take on Mephisto isn't bad. And I guess this is harmless. He can still show up in something else later on and this needn't mean anything.

[CyberCubed]

Finished watching all 6 episodes, it was mostly terrible. I don't know why I still subject myself to these Marvel Disney + shows, probably just because I want to say I've seen everything. Even the 1.5x speed setting did not help, should of set it to 2x speed.

I'll watch Daredevil Season 5 but other than that I think I'm done.

[IMJ]

Finished watching all 6 episodes, it was mostly terrible. I don't know why I still subject myself to these Marvel Disney + shows, probably just because I want to say I've seen everything. Even the 1.5x speed setting did not help, should of set it to 2x speed.

I'll watch Daredevil Season 5 but other than that I think I'm done.

You paid them for it by clicking on it. :lol:

[CyberCubed]

It's ok, the illegal streaming websites took care of that. ;)

[IMJ]

Well... according to Rotten Tomatoes the show is top tier and that any negativity surrounding it was due to racist review bombing. And so all of those reviews were censored and now the show is great!

Boom! Instant fix -money talks-

[Andrew NDB]

You paid them for it by clicking on it. :lol:

Actually, the best thing you can do is to begin to watch a show and then shut it off about 10-15 minutes into it. Then it goes down as a "they watched it/gave it a chance and didn't like it" metric.

And wtf... if someone had told me the Ironheart show was coming to Disney+ -- which is already pretty dicey in and of itself -- and front and center would be a drag queen and some kind of trans man, I would have laughed out loud. As there's no way Disney could possibly be that STUPID.

[sdp]

Racist cybercubed