Are the 80's Turtles 'cancellable'?

[Coola Yagami]

You know these modern day teenage idiots discover old shows, then get their undies in a bunch when they discover the show has a lot of humor and jokes that don't fly today but somehow expect a show from the 80's or 90's to somehow have modern day sensibilities?

Are there any episodes or jokes or whatever from the old show that would have caused problems? I don't really think so, especially since the show was very tame and for kids.

The only thing I can see is 'not enough black people' in the cast or backgrounds because nowadays it feels every show needs to have tons of black people in it or else its racist. I'm not sure Shredder counts either cause he was voices by Uncle Phil, but if he was voiced by a white guy.... hoo boy, man the cancel-stations.

I guess maybe all the 'just like a woman' type jokes, maybe?

[CyberCubed]

None of the Shredder's in cartoons were ever voiced by Asians. 80's Shredder and Nick 2012 Shredder are voiced by black actors, and 2k3 Shredder was a white guy.

The only thing a little dated about the old toon is of course April being a damsel in distress in most episodes. If it was a modern cartoon she definitely wouldn't get captured in almost every episode.

[IndigoErth]

Having rewatched the whole thing after getting the complete set a while ago... not really much. There are jokes and slang that are very dated at this point, but probably the "worst" they have that sounds weird to hear in a kid's cartoons now is the word "bimbo," and some of Irma's stereotyped behavior being obsessed with her weight and getting a man, but that's about it I think.

I guess maybe all the 'just like a woman' type jokes, maybe?
That too, though I think sometimes April at least responded to it instead of acting like it didn't happen, so that at least helps that part just a little.

The only thing a little dated about the old toon is of course April being a damsel in distress in most episodes. If it was a modern cartoon she definitely wouldn't get captured in almost every episode.
Also that, though likewise it's at least helped a little that she does sometimes get herself out of it and on occasion the rescue is reversed with the Turtles stuck in a situation.

[neatoman]

If we are talking about things that are "Not OK anymore"... Not that much but there are few things someone might get annoyed about:

Baxter Stockman being changed into a white man, that is probably the biggest issue here that won't require any bent interpreation. They took a character who was always black and made him white.
Presenting a man transforming into a rat has some parallels with American WWII propaganda.
The only black man in amongst the main characters is literally retarded (though given that he almost always looks like a pig it's easy to forget he's black).
The Japanese language and martial arts is usually represented through incoherent gibberish and goofy slapstick, which might give the impression that it's not to be taken seriously.
Foreigners are typically presented in a stereotypical manner.
Irma's desperate desire to find a man might not be appreciated by a lot of schools of feminism.


I think I should just stop there. Most of this is clearly not intentional. Baxter being made white, the stereotypes and the goofy depiction of martial arts might be but I'm not sure. The FW cartoon isn't exactly South Park, Drawn Together or Family Guy, it's meant for kids and clearly not intended to push any buttons.

Beyond this, I'm not sure there is much about the cast, crew or production that could be so offensive that it just drags the show down. Fred Wolf shutting Eastman/Laird out the creative process and David Wise being a liar who recycled scripts are kind of bad things, but it's not like the Cosby show where the creator/star turned out to be a serial rapist. Like seriously, unless it turns out Cam Clarke funded 9/11 or something, I don't think any controversy that can relate back to the show would ever be bad enough to have it "cancelled".

[Slade]

Not that I'm the biggest fan of the 80's turtles, but let's not give these fools any ideas...:lol:

These people will get offended about anything, everything and nothing all at once. I'm sure if one of them felt like it they'd try. :trolleye:

[Leo656]

Baxter Stockman being changed into a white man, that is probably the biggest issue here that won't require any bent interpreation. They took a character who was always black and made him white.


It's a Catch-22, though, because in either case you're damned. If you leave Baxter as a black guy, you inevitably have someone complain that making a black guy a villain is "racist."

That literally just happened with the new Superman & Lois show; they decided a long time ago to make their new Lex Luthor black to "subvert expectations/add diversity to the cast", and one of the black writers (who was later fired for complaining too much about every little thing) raised a stink about having the main villain be a black person.

Whitewash a black character, you're Racist. Keep a black character as a villain, ALSO racist. The only way to "fix" it would be to make Baxter the biggest heroic character in the series aside from the Turtles themselves, only THEN would the Constantly Outraged Brigade ever be satisfied.

You can't win with these types of people who go around claiming everything is "offensive", which is why they should always be dismissed out of hand.

[Coola Yagami]

You know the funny thing would be, you'd THINK newer TMNT cartoons would tone down April, as the camera would focus on her butt quite often. But then I remember that while 2012 April is younger, hence they don't have to worry about 'offensive big boobs', the camera STILL focused a lot on her butt. Go figure.

[Leo656]

All Animators Are Pervs. What's the "internet rule #" on that one?

[CyberCubed]

I think they only got away with white Baxter because black Baxter was only in a single issue at the time the original cartoon came out in 1987, and back then outside of hardcore comic fans nobody knew Baxter was black.

I didn't find out till about a decade and a half later in the late 90's when I was discovering the Mirage comics for the first time.

[Jester]

Bebop was black but was voiced by a white guy.

[Prowler]

Bebop was black but was voiced by a white guy.

And Shredder was voiced by Uncle Phil. :D

[Last Ronin]

Everything is cancellable with these snowflakes. Next thing you know they'll cancel me....

Don't let them cancel me bros.

[sdp]

OT Baxter isn't white, he deals with Vitiligo like Michael Jackson did.

[FrederikWolferson]

Stockman was probably changed because they didn't want Shredder to boss around a black guy.
Wasn't there a one off mad scientist who looked like comic/Stockman?

[Coola Yagami]

And Shredder was voiced by Uncle Phil. :D

Yeah, but they only raise a stink if it's a white person doing... well... anything nowadays really. They'd give Uncle Phil a pass.

[CyberCubed]

Kevin Michael Richardson voiced Nick 2012 Shredder, and by 2012 "political correctness" was already a thing. I always found it odd they hired black guys to voice an obvious Asian Japanese man like Shredder.

[Prowler]

Anyway...

Not really. I mean, people who like to "cancel" will probably find some things in the 87 series that's a bit insensitive about Japanese culture. It made their food look gross. Sushi is a very trendy and loved food all over the world these days, but viewed as gross by the Turtles in the FW series.

But, OTOH, Japanese people aren't the prime concerns of SJWs. They're more worried about finding bad media representations of black people, LGBT people and women. So I guess they'd end up having more issues with April being a damsel in distress, Irma being obsessed with men and Vernon being an effeminate sounding man who wears pink shirts.

[Coola Yagami]

Anyway...

Not really. I mean, people who like to "cancel" will probably find some things in the 87 series that's a bit insensitive about Japanese culture. It made their food look gross. Sushi is a very trendy and loved food all over the world these days, but viewed as gross by the Turtles in the FW series.



It was thanks to the Turtles that it took so long for me to 'take the jump' and eat some sushi. Now I can't get enough of the stuff.

On a similar note, I remember some sitcoms always made sauerkraut sound disgusting, like the kids were not looking forward to having it for dinner and whatnot, but I tried it for whatever reason, and I love eating hot dogs with sauerkraut on it.

Geez, TV really does influence a lot when you're growing up.

[Sumac]

Everything is cancellable with these snowflakes.
Ditto.

If it exists, they'll figure out a reason to cancel it.

[superstaff]

Stockman was probably changed because they didn't want Shredder to boss around a black guy.
Wasn't there a one off mad scientist who looked like comic/Stockman?

But Shredder still bosses around a black guy, aka Bebop. :lol:

[FrederikWolferson]

But Shredder still bosses around a black guy, aka Bebop. :lol:
He's a warthog,anyway.

[joe-eyeball]

I remember thinking it was funny when Splinter used Sacajawea as a Japanese word.

[Musashi]

I wouldn't really worry too much unless the Turtles become a huge pop culture phenomenon again. Lurking around the fringes of mainstream like it generally does, it doesn't attract all that much attention from anyone likely to get on the case. High profile targets work best.

[CyberCubed]

Technically they canceled Michaelangelo's nunchucks due to the UK.

Weird to think how the Brits convinced the studio to have Michaelangelo stop using nunchucks. It's so absurd.

[ABrown]

There are jokes and slang that are very dated at this point, but probably the "worst" they have that sounds weird to hear in a kid's cartoons now is the word "bimbo,"

Yeah, the "bimbo" term was the first thing that I thought of when I came accross this thread. No way they're gonna be allowed to say that today.

The only black man in amongst the main characters is literally retarded (though given that he almost always looks like a pig it's easy to forget he's black).

Haha! What?

[IndigoErth]

Technically they canceled Michaelangelo's nunchucks due to the UK.

Weird to think how the Brits convinced the studio to have Michaelangelo stop using nunchucks. It's so absurd.
They were probably a big enough market that they were willing to do it for the bottom line.

[Coola Yagami]

But Shredder still bosses around a black guy, aka Bebop. :lol:

But Shredder's Japanese so it's ok.

[Ninjinister]

I'm not sure why people use the term "cancel" when they mean "criticize" or even when someone simply *notices* that something is/was terrible.

I mean for Chrissake most of these things are older than the people talking about them. You can't "cancel" something that's been over for 30+ years.

Recognizing how something is f**ked up, especially in the past, is what helps us have a better future. Recognizing how f**ked up something *NOW* is, helps us have a better present.

[neatoman]

The word cancelled is probably used because this sort of thing can result in the official distribution being halted. Sure, you can't really cancel a show that has been off the air for decades in the sense that you prevent new episodes from being produced, but you can prevent the reruns, stop printing the DVDs and remove it from streaming services.

[Lord Nightwalker]

Cancel culture is, in all truth, utter ********. Freedom of speech. Freedom of choice. We all take these for granted, but if this "cancel culture" nonsense continues unchecked without any real common sense involved, we will lose both.
As far as 80s TMNT goes, Who knows what the tide pod chewing generation thinks?
Seems like they're pretty keen on the destruction of anything that doesn't fit in their tidy little bubble.

[Sumac]

I'm not sure why people use the term "cancel" when they mean "criticize" or even when someone simply *notices* that something is/was terrible.
In other circumstances I'd agree with you, however, nowadays it is obvious that this principle has been appropriated by political zealots as well as losers who just want to get a kick from having power to ruin life of other people.

Also, in many cases those "terrible" things are just no big deal for 99% of people. There are some exceptions, but most of the cases just make mountain out of molehill, fueling division in society and hatred. Thus having an opposite effect from intended one.

I mean for Chrissake most of these things are older than the people talking about them. You can't "cancel" something that's been over for 30+ years.
Tell it to Seuss, whose books were "banned" from being produced, because, some idiot was "offended". Tell it to cartoons which were censored or locked in the vault, because, apparently in mind of those who made those decisions, people are incapable to understand that some things from the past are not OK today and would emulate behaviors from the past like dumb monkeys.

Recognizing how something is f**ked up, especially in the past, is what helps us have a better future. Recognizing how f**ked up something *NOW* is, helps us have a better present.
It is not what is going on, though.
Right we have zealots who want to rewrite history and ban everything that don't align with their vision of the world, which changes almost every week.

If totalitarian control of art and thought is your better future, than it can **** off in the deepest shithole of the universe. Thinking people will never accept that.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

Actually, the Seuss books were not "banned". The Seuss ESTATE simply pulled them from publication due to racially charged/racist content. And it was only six books out of dozens, and all of them were relatively obscure ones that nobody really reads anyway. It was his own heirs who decided they were offensive, not some random idiot. They just chose to discontinue them to avoid any possible future issues with them.

[Coola Yagami]

The word cancelled is probably used because this sort of thing can result in the official distribution being halted. Sure, you can't really cancel a show that has been off the air for decades in the sense that you prevent new episodes from being produced, but you can prevent the reruns, stop printing the DVDs and remove it from streaming services.

Exactly, or if they can't they try to cancel whatever the person that produced said show back then they'll mess with him/her and whatever they're doing now. They'll go after your job, or they'll go after your friends and family.

Some examples are-

Getting Gina Carano fired off of Mandalorian. When she refused to back down and apologize, now they are trying to cancel Henry Cavill because he dated her ten years ago.... as if he can somehow predict the future.

Forcing them to replace the voice of Apu and now Dr. Hibbert from the Simpsons.

Removing Pepe Le Peue from the Space Jam sequel.

Multiple attempts to cancel Robert Downey Jr over Tropic Thunder, a movie literally no one had a problem with back then and also considering that RDJ is such a beloved actor nowadays.

Most of these are minor things, with the exception of Gina actually losing her job, but when you just keep adding more and more and more to the list.... at what point are people gonna actually worry and start to do something about it?

[Sumac]

Actually, the Seuss books were not "banned". The Seuss ESTATE simply pulled them from publication due to racially charged/racist content. And it was only six books out of dozens, and all of them were relatively obscure ones that nobody really reads anyway. It was his own heirs who decided they were offensive, not some random idiot. They just chose to discontinue them to avoid any possible future issues with them.
Would they need to do it, if some random idiots on Twatter won't try to lynch everyone for their perceived wrongthink?

[Prowler]

I'm not sure why people use the term "cancel" when they mean "criticize" or even when someone simply *notices* that something is/was terrible.

I mean for Chrissake most of these things are older than the people talking about them. You can't "cancel" something that's been over for 30+ years.

Recognizing how something is f**ked up, especially in the past, is what helps us have a better future. Recognizing how f**ked up something *NOW* is, helps us have a better present.

That's not what "cancelling" is.

Andrew has been openly criticising FW TMNT for YEARS on these forums, but no one would ever call what he does "cancelling".

"Cancelling" is when something essentially becomes a witch-hunt to get something out of the air or cease it's distribution. Or pressuring a studio or a company to get an actor fired. Or when someone does something wrong but their actions are blown out of proportion and people rush to Twitter to vilify them.

[Xav]

None of the Shredder's in cartoons were ever voiced by Asians. 80's Shredder and Nick 2012 Shredder are voiced by black actors, and 2k3 Shredder was a white guy.Well the two most recent animated Shredder's from Rise of the TMNT and Batman vs TMNT were both voiced by Asian actors.

[Jester]

I keep hearing that these books are "obscure" and some of them are...I didn't know Cat's Quizzer, On Beyond Zebra, or Scrambled Eggs Super! existed until I looked at book lists to attempt to complete our Dr. Seuss collection years ago.

BUT....Mulberry Street? It's his first book.

I'm really sad I missed on getting McElligot's Pool before it now is out of print. I guess I'll have to keep an eye out at flea markets.

Also, have there been explanations on all the books? I've seen them for Mulberry Street, If I ran the Zoo, The Cat's Quizzer, and possible issues with Scrambled Eggs Super, but not McElligot's Pool or On Beyond Zebra.

[PizzaPower1985]

Speaking as one of those filthy L*ftist...

NO! I think WE go too far if we are trying to eliminate anything that is not racist or marginalizing!

But that's me. Ask someone else and it's OMG! CANCEL EVERYTHING! If you go looking for something to be offended by, you will find it!

Anti-woman things NEED TO BE CANCELLED.
Something that is racist NEEDS TO BE CANCELLED unless of course it is historical, like Huck Finn or UNCLE REMUS. The Afro-American community got a lot of power out of their own myths. Uncle Remus stories are valuable!

IF we judge the past by the standards of today we will not learn anything and we may be doomed to repeat ugly history.