Is Michelangelo eternally doomed?

[Prowler]

Ever since the Fred Wolf series days, Michelangelo has become the designated catchphrase spewing machine and the face of the family friendly versions of TMNT.

While in the OT he was a chill surfer slang speaking dude, in 2k3 the writers decided to turn him into the comedian of the group and made him annoying and stupid as hell.

The last time a version of Michelangelo was tolerable was in the FW series days. Sure that was when the trend of turning Mikey into a joke began, but he still wasn't as annoying at the time. Although he was already known for being the least intelligent of the group.

TMNT is a property for kids. And Mikey is the face of such property and the most popular turtle for some reason. And kids love goofy humour and characters.

So yeah, I don't see that ever changing. All turtles have had a bad characterization or two, but Mikey clearly has gotten the short end of the stick.

[Powder]

Probably, yes. IDW tried to do him better justice but kinda just turned him into a crybaby. There's a chance for redemption, sure, but it won't come easy, or often.

Rise did a pretty solid job with him, actually. He was probably the most toned-down of them all, ironically. Can't use him as too much of a reference point, though, as the overall tone of the series was wacky & humorous.

Future writers need to learn from Image (Mirage Vol. 3) which gave us the best Michelangelo to date. He would babysit Shadow, he wrote short stories/poetry, enjoyed some brews, broke a few necks, fell in love, he was well rounded & fairly adult. It was such a refreshing change of pace. Mirage on a whole has also characterized him as an artist, which Rise made reference to as well.

Michelangelo should be defined more by his heart, rather than his sense of humor. The latter is due to the former, anyway.

[Leo656]

Eh, Mikey was alright in 4Kids Season 1 at least. He definitely got worse and was pretty insufferable by the time he became Battle Nexus Champion, but it didn't start out in all that bad a place.

But yeah, he's been pretty well "Flanderized" since then and it's probably too late to walk it back. Back in the day, someone saying that Mikey was their favorite Turtle was no big deal; at this point anyone who "claims" him though is pretty eyebrow-raising, given how awful he's been portrayed for the last twenty years. Like "THAT's your boy? Really?"

[Prowler]

Probably, yes. IDW tried to do him better justice but kinda just turned him into a crybaby. There's a chance for redemption, sure, but it won't come easy, or often.

Rise did a pretty solid job with him, actually. He was probably the most toned-down of them all, ironically. Can't use him as too much of a reference point, though, as the overall tone of the series was wacky & humorous.

Future writers need to learn from Image (Mirage Vol. 3) which gave us the best Michelangelo to date. He would babysit Shadow, he wrote short stories/poetry, enjoyed some brews, broke a few necks, fell in love, he was well rounded & fairly adult. It was such a refreshing change of pace. Mirage on a whole has also characterized him as an artist, which Rise made reference to as well.

Michelangelo should be defined more by his heart, rather than his sense of humor. The latter is due to the former, anyway.

Well said. Mikey shouldn't be a polarising individual. In the 2k3 he became too full of himself after winning Battle Nexus. Mikey isn't supposed to be an arrogant prick. Plus, they made him a chicken too, for some reason. What sense does it make for a skilled ninja to be a coward?

Eh, Mikey was alright in 4Kids Season 1 at least. He definitely got worse and was pretty insufferable by the time he became Battle Nexus Champion, but it didn't start out in all that bad a place.

But yeah, he's been pretty well "Flanderized" since then and it's probably too late to walk it back. Back in the day, someone saying that Mikey was their favorite Turtle was no big deal; at this point anyone who "claims" him though is pretty eyebrow-raising, given how awful he's been portrayed for the last twenty years. Like "THAT's your boy? Really?"

Sure, he was better in the 1st season, but after winning the Battle Nexus tournament at the end of the 3nd season he came insufferable. Plus, it's not like he mopped the floor with his opponents. He fluked his wins against Raph and that big alien dude.

But he was already a chicken **** before that.

[Lord Nightwalker]

You know, I always think of Michelangelo as a creative soul and a bit of an adrenaline junkie. It's all about living, and making the most out of it. Kinda the heart and soul of the group similarly to Ray Stantz role in the Ghostbusters team.

[AquaParade]

The main problem with Mikey these days is that we are typically set up to laugh at him, not with him.

I agree that Image and Mirage did right by him. I also really dig the 1990 version, because while he is a goof in that movie, he is actually pretty funny and charming.
Mikey should be likeable and charming. He should help you crack a smile when you need it, not constantly encourage you to roll your eyes at him.

[oldmanwinters]

I thought this thread was gonna be about metaphysics and damnation.

[Coola Yagami]

Another problem with Mikey is, I hate how he's also become the 'annoying one'. Like the one the other usually don't want him around during downtime. Too obnoxious or 'tries too hard to be funny'. Like I don't get it, is the joke supposed to be he's bugging the **** out of everyone around him ala Spongebob?

Like while there were some times they did treat Mikey like that in the OT, it was rare and in the later seasons. When it was mission time, the turtles split up and were all competent in their own way. No one acted like 'ugh.... I'm stuck with Mikey' like the general impression is nowadays.

[Leo656]

The main problem with Mikey these days is that we are typically set up to laugh at him, not with him.

I agree that Image and Mirage did right by him. I also really dig the 1990 version, because while he is a goof in that movie, he is actually pretty funny and charming.
Mikey should be likeable and charming. He should help you crack a smile when you need it, not constantly encourage you to roll your eyes at him.

S'truth.

The 1990 movie pretty much "ruined" me for any other depiction of the Turtles themselves. They all feel so perfect and spot-on in that, to the point where everything I see or read of them gets filtered through that "lens". Everything else feels like either a step down or a misstep.

That definitely was Best Mikey. It's a shame that now he's little but the "Resident Autist". He used to have other traits besides "he's so dumb that he's only one step up from useless and often more a liability than an asset." How the f*ck did we get here?

[Coola Yagami]

S'truth.

He used to have other traits besides "he's so dumb that he's only one step up from useless and often more a liability than an asset." How the f*ck did we get here?

Bad writers that can't think up of other forms of comedy other than 'dumb is funny'. Like if you must make Mikey the funny one, why not make him the smartass or something? There are other forms of comedy, ya know? 2012 Mikey bordered on 'lol-so-random' Deadpool funny but without the 4th walls.

[IndigoErth]

It's weird that as much as some keep trying to pull inspiration from the first cartoon, they don't reboot Mikey as that sort of laid back personality. :tconfuse:

Credit to Rise for toning him down, but in contrast to the other personalities around him that they tried to amp up in other directions and the allover tone of the show he just ended up rather bland instead.

I assume he's probably to some extent going to remain stuck in it. I HOPE future iterations might consider taking a careful look at how they craft his behavior and personality and cut out the stupid stuff and just let him be upbeat and suitably funny (now and then, not all of the time) without being stupid and annoying, but since they're probably always going to want the "fun one" who is comparatively the sunshiny goober of the group to draw some people in, esp the kids, I doubt it's ever going to be lost completely.

And really, while a comic might be able to get away with a serious Mikey, a show or movie kind of needs that one guy who is exuding charm and keeping things from becoming too depressing, but they really need to take a better look at how they are making it happen and stop relying on making him dumb or forcing too much humor in there. I have only few complaints about the Batman vs. TMNT movie, but the amount of forced humor from Mikey is one of them.

He can be the "happy pill" in his family, who are otherwise weighed down by their troubled existence, without being stupid about it.

[Sumac]

Anything better than 2k12 Mike.
This thing was an embarrassment of cosmic proportions.

[Prowler]

You know, I always think of Michelangelo as a creative soul and a bit of an adrenaline junkie. It's all about living, and making the most out of it. Kinda the heart and soul of the group similarly to Ray Stantz role in the Ghostbusters team.
Well, he was creative in battle in the 2k3 series I suppose.

Would be nice to see future cartoon versions of Mikey focusing on his artistic and poet sides. But I guess it's easier to sell a goofy idiot to kids than a positive but yet intelligent character.

The main problem with Mikey these days is that we are typically set up to laugh at him, not with him.

I agree that Image and Mirage did right by him. I also really dig the 1990 version, because while he is a goof in that movie, he is actually pretty funny and charming.
Mikey should be likeable and charming. He should help you crack a smile when you need it, not constantly encourage you to roll your eyes at him.
Well said.

I thought this thread was gonna be about metaphysics and damnation.

I'm sorry to disappoint you :P

Another problem with Mikey is, I hate how he's also become the 'annoying one'. Like the one the other usually don't want him around during downtime. Too obnoxious or 'tries too hard to be funny'. Like I don't get it, is the joke supposed to be he's bugging the **** out of everyone around him ala Spongebob?

Like while there were some times they did treat Mikey like that in the OT, it was rare and in the later seasons. When it was mission time, the turtles split up and were all competent in their own way. No one acted like 'ugh.... I'm stuck with Mikey' like the general impression is nowadays.

In one of the Red Sky episodes they give Mikey **** for "goofing off" during missions. Which is weird, because we didn't see Mikey not taking the missions seriously in any of the previous episodes. And now, all of a sudden, he was acting immature and getting distracted during missions?

[slashpieturtlemix]

I find this thread funny. As much as I have been reading the comics lately, I don't see him nearly as hyper as his animated selves. I think the comics spoiled me because now I see most of the turtles in different ways in general.

[Shark_Blade]

He’s actually quite cool and collective in Rise, and even mature and wise in IDW comic.

Those are vast improvements over 2k3, 2k7, 2k12, and Bayturtles Mikey tbh. I’m so done with Mikey being depicted as a moron that spouted unfunny jokes all the time.

[neatoman]

WSleZn4upl0

[Andrew NDB]

I pretty much unilaterally refuse to support anything that has "Dude Mikey" in it. That's just not him.

[Coola Yagami]

In one of the Red Sky episodes they give Mikey **** for "goofing off" during missions. Which is weird, because we didn't see Mikey not taking the missions seriously in any of the previous episodes. And now, all of a sudden, he was acting immature and getting distracted during missions?

I remember, it was stupid cause Mikey was just as serious as the other as soon as Red Sky began, and on top of that, once he was useful they still had to rub it in with 'see what you can accomplish if you set your mind to it'. Like WTF, the writer for that one must have really hate Michealangelo.

[Prowler]

I remember, it was stupid cause Mikey was just as serious as the other as soon as Red Sky began, and on top of that, once he was useful they still had to rub it in with 'see what you can accomplish if you set your mind to it'. Like WTF, the writer for that one must have really hate Michealangelo.

Yep.

Red Sky also had an episode where April thought the Turtles had become bad guys... after 8 seasons of being friends with them she starts distrusting them just like that?

[Cowabung-Gal]

Every superhero team needs a funny guy, and Mikey’s mask is orange, which is the color of happiness, enthusiasm, and fun. He could just change it to black and become the emo of the group.

Oh, wait, that already happened in “The Last Ronin”.

[Vegita-San]

keep in mind, in the first five eps, mike was the raph of the series. quick to anger and impatient. trashing a robot long after it was 'dead'. then they decided to lighten it up a little.

Movie mike is probably my favorite, with 2k3 mike next.

[TheLabRat]

It would be an improvement if Mikey's personality is closer to DMC1/DMC2 Dante or Hellboy. Although that would make him look like a eldest brother, not a younger brother.

[Coola Yagami]

Ever since the Fred Wolf series days, Michelangelo has become the designated catchphrase spewing machine and the face of the family friendly versions of TMNT.

While in the OT he was a chill surfer slang speaking dude, in 2k3 the writers decided to turn him into the comedian of the group and made him annoying and stupid as hell.

The last time a version of Michelangelo was tolerable was in the FW series days. Sure that was when the trend of turning Mikey into a joke began, but he still wasn't as annoying at the time. Although he was already known for being the least intelligent of the group.

TMNT is a property for kids. And Mikey is the face of such property and the most popular turtle for some reason. And kids love goofy humour and characters.

So yeah, I don't see that ever changing. All turtles have had a bad characterization or two, but Mikey clearly has gotten the short end of the stick.

I think the problem was Mikey didn't have much of a personality in the early Mirage comics. I think it was a bit later on when he'd become 'the heart of the team'.

Leo was shown calling the shots. Don was shown at least curious about technology and stuff. Raph was definitely the anger management one, which the cartoon toned down and made him a rude smartass. But Mikey was just.... there. So I guess someone (prob David Wise) came up with the surfer stereotype. Or maybe the suits felt they needed one of the Turtles to be particularly likeable and a catchphrase machine and whatnot and since Mikey was pretty much a clean slate, he was the chosen one.

In other words, I feel like if Mikey had a personality in the early Mirage comics, the cartoon would have gone with some variation of that,

[CyberCubed]

Michelangelo's personality in Mirage started with his one-shot Christmas issue with Klunk. I think that cemented Michelangelo's personality as, "the fun one" even in Mirage. The whole issue is a fun Christmas story with Michelangelo taking care of a stray cat.

Obviously the whole, "pizza cowabunga dude' personality started with the original cartoon, but I think it's likely David Wise read that Mirage issue and spun it off from there.

[neatoman]

Michelangelo's personality in Mirage started with his one-shot Christmas issue with Klunk. I think that cemented Michelangelo's personality as, "the fun one" even in Mirage. The whole issue is a fun Christmas story with Michelangelo taking care of a stray cat.


Well that and... Then there is this as well:

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/S7djXFvgCOmu9Al-UMfQSgLqAnUKQxGGF6XzGFD0x9GACGtFpBMiIyQQQpFo0c4Sd_ SrkChP1nHMd4kxbgBiVJoBeFEGunJ6RIMxIvYg-wvJo-48Imzd7SQkcBVZfQBVSB9XSSq34Q=s1600?rhlupa=MjEzLjEx Mi4xMjcuMjE3&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2l uNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgb GlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzExMi4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM 3LjM2

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/6jN0HjjD1jDdh8K13ejvVLhbeBSPykdeTVzy_radKiCqHXWESy 0VK8ECrEAPMJD0kdPHH7EEizmGjm_0fliEVgNG_YQXb_YJZF-4a3ztsz3fRIktZiOO2CDfee5TLMwBl8-uke3UmA=s1600?rhlupa=MjEzLjExMi4xMjcuMjE3&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2l uNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgb GlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzExMi4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM 3LjM2

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/TcUyN5It3Lc6EN7YsnFpqieZQmN7aqLz60rdmpKrLxua5FD974 La2FH_nFN2wxAlWOme0hkwbj8XwptpFKva6YvRTpwrmXUUl67s oSSA8WJWqk9j4RwBo8wKTKst_3v_kaXe24q6mA=s1600?rhlup a=MjEzLjExMi4xMjcuMjE3&rnvuka=TW96aWxsYS81LjAgKFdpbmRvd3MgTlQgMTAuMDsgV2l uNjQ7IHg2NCkgQXBwbGVXZWJLaXQvNTM3LjM2IChLSFRNTCwgb GlrZSBHZWNrbykgQ2hyb21lLzExMi4wLjAuMCBTYWZhcmkvNTM 3LjM2

[Shark_Blade]

From the looks of it, Mikey won’t be an idiot moron in Mutants Mayhem too. What a blessing.

[Andrew NDB]

No, he is very doomed. There isn't anything post-Mirage where he isn't OOC. All there is is varying degrees of the least levels of abrasion. But there is always abrasion. Whether he has some degree of apparent retardation or a general sense of surfer/vacuous jokey dude, it's always there.

[Cowabung-Gal]

From the looks of it, Mikey won’t be an idiot moron in Mutants Mayhem too. What a blessing.

Nope. They will all be idiot morons. :lol:

[Monty Mole]

From the looks of it, Mikey won’t be an idiot moron in Mutants Mayhem too. What a blessing.

Are you joking?

[Jephael]

I thought Rise did a pretty decent job with him, showing his more creative side, not to mention his love for his brothers. I know everyone has their hang ups and issues with that interpretation, but that had to be my favorite version of Michelangelo!

[Poweranimals]

Ever since the Fred Wolf series days, Michelangelo has become the designated catchphrase spewing machine and the face of the family friendly versions of TMNT.

While in the OT he was a chill surfer slang speaking dude, in 2k3 the writers decided to turn him into the comedian of the group and made him annoying and stupid as hell.

The last time a version of Michelangelo was tolerable was in the FW series days. Sure that was when the trend of turning Mikey into a joke began, but he still wasn't as annoying at the time. Although he was already known for being the least intelligent of the group.

TMNT is a property for kids. And Mikey is the face of such property and the most popular turtle for some reason. And kids love goofy humour and characters.

So yeah, I don't see that ever changing. All turtles have had a bad characterization or two, but Mikey clearly has gotten the short end of the stick.
I don't understand the issue with making him the comic relief character. I've always found him to be amusing and one of the most enjoyable characters. I didn't enjoy the Rise version as much since that version took more of a backseat in terms of comedy.

[miru]

I wonder if Baxter is also eternally doomed? Outside of the Mirage series and the Last Ronin (maybe IDW and 2k3 but those versions still make him sympathetic) he’s always a borderline joke villain best known for the sheer misfortune handled upon him and being pushed around by others.

[TheLabRat]

I wonder if Baxter is also eternally doomed? Outside of the Mirage series and the Last Ronin (maybe IDW and 2k3 but those versions still make him sympathetic) he’s always a borderline joke villain best known for the sheer misfortune handled upon him and being pushed around by others.

I think IDW Stockman might be an archenemy for Old Hob and Mighty Mutanimals. But they screwed up a lot of potential story development. In Mutant Town arc, he just build a giant wall and stole some mutant fish's egg. Even in Armageddon Game arc, he actually just sits and does nothing.

[Anarchistguy]

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think Mike is going to be anything more than the goofy party dude/immature baby brother. Especially in this Nickelodeon era. 80% of fan art today has Leo, Don and Raph looking badass while Mike is stuffing his face with pizza. It's ingrained in pop culture.

[Andrew NDB]

You guys are kidding yourselves if you think Mike is going to be anything more than the goofy party dude/immature baby brother. Especially in this Nickelodeon era. It's ingrained in pop culture.

True. But we just don't have to like it. Or even really accept it.

[Anarchistguy]

Oh don't get it twisted. I don't care for it at all. But such is the state of things.