So will TMNT soon be "culturally cancelled"?

[Refractive Reflections]

With child restrictions on Disney's "Dumbo" and "Peter Pan" and "The Aristocrats" (https://nypost.com/2021/03/09/disney-forbids-kids-from-watching-racist-classics/), Looney Tunes' Pepe Le Pew being cancelled (https://movieweb.com/pepe-le-pew-canceled-warner-bros-looney-tunes/) as well as Speedy Gonzales (https://thetimesofnewyork.com/2021/03/07/hispanics-slam-nyt-for-canceling-speedy-gonzales/), 6 Dr. Seuss children books no longer being published (https://nypost.com/2021/03/02/six-dr-seuss-books-wont-be-published-for-racist-images/), and in summer 2020 temporarily pausing the cartoon "Paw Patrol" because of George Floyd (https://www.msn.com/en-us/tv/news/paw-patrol-canceled-twitter-erupts-as-people-debate-whether-cop-dog-is-problematic/ar-BB15lZjE)...

Is it just a matter of time before TMNT (in any universe) is eventually restricted or have trigger warnings?
Due to some believing:

The American turtles culturally appropriating Japanese martial arts?
Master Splinter perpetuating Asian stereotypes (as the Mark Dice clip below speculates at 2:31)?
Having April not being able to fight as proficiently as the Turtles is continuing the cultural misogyny through the damsel-in-distress trope?


See at 2:31:
aNmeQWaNT3U

Welcome to the cultural progression of 2021.

[Andrew NDB]

There may be a push to make the Turtles pre-mutation into clearly Japanese turtles, to avoid the issue.

Which isn't an issue. It's only morons.

[FrederikWolferson]

Except Splinter/Hamato Yoshi WAS Japanese.

Idk,has the twitter crowd run out of targets,so they might come for 30 y.o. cartoon? It's possible,I guess.

[Sumac]

I am sure some retards will try to do it.
They believe that until their generation everything was "sexist, racist, e.t.c.", so it is not matter of "what" targets do they choose, but "when".

Also, one should remember they are doing it not for progressive society, but to inflate their limp egos, caused by the fact they are failures at everything else in life.

[superstaff]

Didn't TMNT basically get cancelled back in 2017/2018 right before Rise Of premiered?

I remember a lot of arguing about whether April was originally black or not in the Mirage Comics, people accusing Eastman and Laird of racism (especially Eastman), and so on.

[Andrew NDB]

I remember a lot of arguing about whether April was originally black or not in the Mirage Comics, people accusing Eastman and Laird of racism (especially Eastman), and so on.

No actual claims, just a lot of fan hubbub. Founded in nothing. Based on nothing. And turned out to BE nothing.

[superstaff]

No actual claims, just a lot of fan hubbub. Founded in nothing. Based on nothing. And turned out to BE nothing.

I never said there was validity to the claims...

I'm just saying that the series basically got raked through the coals by SJWs during that time.

[Andrew NDB]

I never said there was validity to the claims...

I'm just saying that the series basically got raked through the coals by SJWs during that time.

Well, this is kind of -- actually not even kind of, it IS -- the fundamental problem with all of this. It isn't the SJW types spewing this stuff, it is the people that humor it and fan it. And it always has been. Because there will always be those types... and there always has been. It's just, in the past 5 years, suddenly everyone has decided we need to listen to them and be afraid of them.

So... it's kind of on those people and it's kind of on us.

[sdp]

Nah, it's just snowflake cuckservatives trying to be outraged over something that hasn't happened because they love FAKE news and being outraged just as much as SJW, they're all the same people on the inside.

[superstaff]

Nah, it's just snowflake cuckservatives trying to be outraged over something that hasn't happened because they love FAKE news and being outraged just as much as SJW, they're all the same people on the inside.

Eh?

Go through some TMNT Twitter and fandom based blogs from around 2017/2018, and I can assure you that this did happen.

For the record, a lot of the people on Twitter who cancelled TMNT/Eastman and Laird back then seem to be the same ones who tag their Twitter posts with #SaveROTTMNT, and are huge fans of it now. I catch them trashing the other incarnations of the series as well, especially the 2012 series.

[sdp]

Anyone can write an outraged tweet and get 30 likes and 13 retweets, people will post that on a blog because they know the usual gang will see the headline, be outraged and click and then be mad about the article they just read and share it to show how outraged they are. It's how blogs have been making money since 2016 in mass, nothing new anymore. There's always going to be 1 person that will be offended by something, doesn't mean anything going to happen.

Even if it gains "some traction" it takes a lot to get something "cancelled", remember when they tried to cancel Marilyn Manson, that one had plenty of media but it's flippin' Marilyn Manson, of course he's a degenerate, not going to hurt his career more than when they tried to cancel him in the 90s.

[Andrew NDB]

Even if it gains "some traction" it takes a lot to get something "cancelled", remember when they tried to cancel Marilyn Manson, that one had plenty of media but it's flippin' Marilyn Manson, of course he's a degenerate, not going to hurt his career more than when they tried to cancel him in the 90s.

He's already been cancelled. Lost his agent, and they edited him out of the episodes of "American Gods" he was yet to appear in.

[superstaff]

Anyone can write an outraged tweet and get 30 likes and 13 retweets, people will post that on a blog because they know the usual gang will see the headline, be outraged and click and then be mad about the article they just read and share it to show how outraged they are. It's how blogs have been making money since 2016 in mass, nothing new anymore. There's always going to be 1 person that will be offended by something, doesn't mean anything going to happen.

True, however, I do remember there being a lot of outrage going on due to the controversy with April being black in ROTTMNT, and whether she was originally black in the Mirage Comics and subsequently whitewashed after the fact. It caused a huge stink in the fandom for a time.

I don't think the series itself got cancelled, mostly because ROTTMNT ended up having April being black, and many of those folks who sided with the show being progressive ended up loving it while deriding other parts of the franchise like other shows and comics.

Personally, I don't mind April being black. I remember there was a rumor that they wanted to make her black in the 2012 series (I can't find an actual verification of this, the concept art has April as a blonde 'party girl' that Raphael had a crush on instead), and I didn't care as long as she was interesting/entertaining. I am not pleased with other aspects of ROTTMNT (but then again, I have criticisms for all of the cartoons in one way or another).

[Leo656]

He's already been cancelled. Lost his agent, and they edited him out of the episodes of "American Gods" he was yet to appear in.

Yeah, there's talk about getting the FBI involved in the investigation. He's not doin' too good.

For my part, I am shocked that a guy who presents as he does and lives off of nothing but cocaine ALSO beats and rapes women and chases them with an ax when he's angry. "Allegedly". I am very, VERY shocked by this.

I never, ever bought that "It's just a persona" stuff. To a point, sure, it's exaggerated, but he gave himself that "persona", nobody stuck it on him. If that's the way you choose to present yourself to the world, then bottom line, there IS something f*cking wrong with you. And what makes it worse is that he has tons of fans who don't get that some of it is a "persona" and they take it as 100% sincere, then turn around and perpetuate those things into Real Life. Some of the Manson acolytes I knew in high school have almost certainly killed someone by now. Those people were f*cking warped; it was far beyond just music or "I think he dresses cool."

What's really gross is that some of those people are women, and some of those women sincerely push the "If he was married/dating those women then he couldn't have raped them, because you can't rape someone you're in a relationship with" narrative. Seriously, this is a thing women who like Marilyn Manson tell me, and it's not an isolated thing, it's a LOT. Some of them openly say "I WISH Marilyn Manson would tie me up and beat me, I think that would be hot." And those people need f*cking therapy. Or cyanide. Whichever. Frankly I think they're beyond all hope, but that's me.

F*ck Marilyn Manson. I kinda hope he doesn't see the other side of this. He's quite clearly a Very Bad Person.

[sdp]

btw cuckservative is being used ironically, it's just as retarded as "libtard", this thread is silly and needs to be treated as such.

He's already been cancelled. Lost his agent, and they edited him out of the episodes of "American Gods" he was yet to appear in.

So? He's Marilyn Manson, he's been in bigger controversies and gotten banned from many more places. He's a metal singer not an actor, people will go see him in concerts and venues will have him. He's dealt with actual controversy with consequences in the past.

Who ever thought Marilyn Manson wasn't a bad person?

True, however, I do remember there being a lot of outrage going on due to the controversy with April being black in ROTTMNT, and whether she was originally black in the Mirage Comics and subsequently whitewashed after the fact. It caused a huge stink in the fandom for a time.

I don't think the series itself got cancelled, mostly because ROTTMNT ended up having April being black, and many of those folks who sided with the show being progressive ended up loving it while deriding other parts of the franchise like other shows and comics.

Personally, I don't mind April being black. I remember there was a rumor that they wanted to make her black in the 2012 series (I can't find an actual verification of this, the concept art has April as a blonde 'party girl' that Raphael had a crush on instead), and I didn't care as long as she was interesting/entertaining. I am not pleased with other aspects of ROTTMNT (but then again, I have criticisms for all of the cartoons in one way or another).

The tumblr type crowd is always going to be outraged, will always ship every character in a show, will always make characters gay in their fanart. It's what they do, no one actually pays attention to them, they're like the furry community they do their thing and it rarely crosses over to the "real" world.

And when it does then sure people can complain about it, but it's silly to be outraged over what people something that most likely is just within a small niche.

[Leo656]

So? He's Marilyn Manson, he's been in bigger controversies and gotten banned from many more places. He's a metal singer not an actor, people will go see him in concerts and venues will have him.

Sick people, sure. People who probably should be forcibly sterilized.

"Back in the day" was a different time. R. Kelly got away with his pedo sh*t for a long time, too... until people finally got fed up.

Times change. Values change. When your number's up, it's up.

[sdp]

I separate artists from the art, I wouldn't be able to listen to most of the music I listen to otherwise. Artists tend to be messed up and fame only exponentializes that.
First saw Marilyn Manson at the 2004 Ozzfest, great show but post 2001s manson records haven't been great, same can be said for most bands after their first few records though. It really wasn't cool to like Manson during that time anymore though, since he was a relic of the past.

Mechanical Animals amazing album
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XPSvXs1H5uo/hqdefault.jpg

and you know why we're talking about Marilyn Manson? Because this is non-news and the TMNT have 0 possibility of being cancelled.

[CyberCubed]

TMNT will get canceled because the Turtles live in the sewer and represent the LGBT crowd of "coming out of the closet" since the Turtles cannot mate with any female Turtles.

[d_osborn]

This stupid thread got pretty far without a mention of Kevin Splinter Clash being accused of diddlying kids. Whatever happened with that?

[Leo656]

Nothing really. He still works with the Henson company, he did stuff on that Dark Crystal show apparently. Allegedly there was no "diddling kids" involved in the accusations, although at least one of the guys he was in a relationship with was underage when they first met but before they had a relationship, thus there's a bit of a gray area. But such things are supposedly not uncommon in gay relationships.

But yeah, it would seem that there wasn't much fire to the smoke, and so his name took a big hit but he still gets work in the industry.

I didn't follow that situation all that closely, but one would think that if there was a lot of truth to the accusations that the Henson company wouldn't still employ him, especially given their reputation for family entertainment and whatnot. It would be a bad look for them to retain him if those accusations proved to be more than just accusations.

One would think, anyway.

[IMJ]

Why are these things so confusing and compelling to people that they need to fact check it, egg it on, or investigate therefore giving it life?

I mean by even asking if something is "problematic" you are breathing life into the whole situation by legitimizing that these things are valid enough to inquire within the framework.

The new "Problematic sensitivity" is the anti-life equation. It's the circular thinking that basically triggers the bottom feeder population by design because they don't know what to do with it other than being drawn in and acting on it. It turns the lower part of Earth's humanity into Parademons.

Don't you guys get it? LOL! Do you want to be Parademons or regular people?

[superstaff]

Nothing really. He still works with the Henson company, he did stuff on that Dark Crystal show apparently. Allegedly there was no "diddling kids" involved in the accusations, although at least one of the guys he was in a relationship with was underage when they first met but before they had a relationship, thus there's a bit of a gray area. But such things are supposedly not uncommon in gay relationships.

But yeah, it would seem that there wasn't much fire to the smoke, and so his name took a big hit but he still gets work in the industry.

I didn't follow that situation all that closely, but one would think that if there was a lot of truth to the accusations that the Henson company wouldn't still employ him, especially given their reputation for family entertainment and whatnot. It would be a bad look for them to retain him if those accusations proved to be more than just accusations.

One would think, anyway.

He was apparently cleared of all charges in court: https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/elmo-puppeteer-kevin-clash-cleared-698645

He seems to have always maintained that everything that happened was between consenting adults.

[Coola Yagami]

Sick people, sure. People who probably should be forcibly sterilized.

"Back in the day" was a different time. R. Kelly got away with his pedo sh*t for a long time, too... until people finally got fed up.

Times change. Values change. When your number's up, it's up.

I lost track, what has happened to R.Kelly, or is the dude still performing?

[IMJ]

I lost track, what has happened to R.Kelly, or is the dude still performing?

I think he's actually in a Chicago prison right now.

[Coola Yagami]

I think he's actually in a Chicago prison right now.

Holy ****. I thought I'd never see the day.

[IMJ]

Holy ****. I thought I'd never see the day.

He's been there for a while now. I can't remember if his court cases are ongoing at this point though.

[Leo656]

You can only literally sit in your car outside of elementary schools hawking little girls, and keep women in cages inside your home, for so long before ultimately people stop making excuses for you.

It blows my mind that people looked the other way on that guy for SO long, because they liked his music. "I Believe I Can Fly" does not excuse peeing on little girls. I'm sorry, it doesn't. You can keep the songs on the radio but the human being behind those songs does not need to ever see daylight again.

[IMJ]

TMNT will get canceled because the Turtles live in the sewer and represent the LGBT crowd of "coming out of the closet" since the Turtles cannot mate with any female Turtles.

That would actually keep them on the air nowadays. At the production companies expense where they would air on the CW.

[Coola Yagami]

You can only literally sit in your car outside of elementary schools hawking little girls, and keep women in cages inside your home, for so long before ultimately people stop making excuses for you.

It blows my mind that people looked the other way on that guy for SO long, because they liked his music. "I Believe I Can Fly" does not excuse peeing on little girls. I'm sorry, it doesn't. You can keep the songs on the radio but the human being behind those songs does not need to ever see daylight again.

I wonder if his latest songs were starting to suck.

In this sick money-driven world it would not surprise me in the least if the powers-that-be decided to look the other way all this time cause 'maybe we can still get another few hits out of him and make some more money' and then finally decide to rain justice down on him once his music started to 'not be what it used to be'.

Hmmmm....

[Sumac]

Canceling happens very arbitrarily and as I said - its just a way for losers to inflate their egos.

For example, this man (https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/ashton-challenor-the-boy-who-disappeared) was hired as a moderator for the Reddit, despite his past. And as an administrator he started to delete posts which criticized him.

Of course, "brave and stunning" left pretend that nothing happens.

[d_osborn]

Nothing really.
Well that's good to hear! :)

[Leo656]

Well that's good to hear! :)

Yeah, I'd feel differently if there'd been a lot of evidence that the guy was a pedo or a "groomer", but apparently that wasn't the case. There's a nuance between "they met when one side was young but they didn't have a relationship until later on." Also consent is a factor.

I mean, I can't in good conscience be a hypocrite. I've mentioned before that my first time was with a woman twice my age, and despite a lot of people telling me that I'm "supposed" to be angry and horrified about it... I'm not. I have no regrets at all about the situation as it happened. We had a bad falling out years later on for unrelated reasons, but I absolutely would not have wanted her to go to jail over what happened, not even after we were no longer friends. Nothing "bad" happened.

Meanwhile, my wife just got back onto FB after a 30-day ban, for telling that story to someone else and disagreeing with that person's assessment that I should have had the woman arrested. To be clear, my wife absolutely hated that woman, but in a conversation such as this she simply told the story and reiterated, "He wanted it to happen, though, so it's not a big deal." This other person reported my wife to FB for "promoting 'grooming'" and they slapped her. Nonsense.

Lots of gray areas, lots of double standards. Stuff gets complicated.

[d_osborn]

Lots of gray areas...
STOP TALKING ABOUT MY BEARD! :tmad:

[Leo656]

:lol: Yours and mine both, brother. :trazz:

I'm rather lucky that my hair is an interesting mix of dark brown, light brown, red, dirty blonde, and gold, and that it changes tint based on lighting and seasonal factors (darker in Winter, lighter in Summer). Because that really hides the strands of silver I see more of every day and other people swear they don't notice. :lol: It just kinda blends in.

Frankly, I don't care if it turns Bright Pink, so long as it stays on my head. :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, I'd feel differently if there'd been a lot of evidence that the guy was a pedo or a "groomer", but apparently that wasn't the case. There's a nuance between "they met when one side was young but they didn't have a relationship until later on." Also consent is a factor.

I mean, I can't in good conscience be a hypocrite. I've mentioned before that my first time was with a woman twice my age, and despite a lot of people telling me that I'm "supposed" to be angry and horrified about it... I'm not. I have no regrets at all about the situation as it happened. We had a bad falling out years later on for unrelated reasons, but I absolutely would not have wanted her to go to jail over what happened, not even after we were no longer friends. Nothing "bad" happened.

Meanwhile, my wife just got back onto FB after a 30-day ban, for telling that story to someone else and disagreeing with that person's assessment that I should have had the woman arrested. To be clear, my wife absolutely hated that woman, but in a conversation such as this she simply told the story and reiterated, "He wanted it to happen, though, so it's not a big deal." This other person reported my wife to FB for "promoting 'grooming'" and they slapped her. Nonsense.

Lots of gray areas, lots of double standards. Stuff gets complicated.

eh, you know how it is, the whole double standard. Now while in your case, you had a blast, as a guy everyone is kinda expecting you to, even if some other kid would have been traumatized cause he wasn't mentally ready for that or whatever else.

You know if the genders were reversed, even if the girl initiated it, allowed it, and had an absolute 'no other man made her see stars the way he did' blast, everybody and their mother would have wanted the guy in jail if not flat out dead. Even if the dude looked like Aquaman. (Idk is it just me but are all these guy teachers creepy fat old guys that obviously can't get laid any other way while most of the female teachers are hotties that you wonder why they bother with kids when they could land a man at a bar without much effort, like I always think it would be a poor girl crying and begging the dude to get off her while with the female teacher it would be like that Rikki Roxx/Steph McMahon sex tape that recently surfaced).

I mean in your case, I'm just glad it worked out, and like there were no mental traumas or consequences. At your age you were still mature enough to understand it was just hooking up and might as well enjoy it while it lasted.

[Leo656]

I am pretty sure that by age 14, as I was, a person of either gender has a pretty good idea as to whether or not they want to have sex. I do admit that at that age they still may lack the foresight to be able to tell if they're making a "good decision" in doing so, measuring the consequences, etc.

But I don't think that lack of judgment or foresight magically goes away at age 18, either. A girl I was good friends with in High School, when she as 18, was having an affair with a married man in his 30s who had kids. She knew it was wrong, she just completely did not care. If the guy's wife found out? "I'm not scared'a her, I can take her." If the guy lost his entire family over it? "That's all on him, I never put a gun to his head, he's doing what he wants to do." That was her rationale. No idea whatever came of that, but I definitely lost some respect for her over the whole deal. She showed an incredible lack of foresight, judgment, and even basic empathy in the way she handled that entire situation.

But, she was an "adult" and thus free to do Whatever. Even if the "adults" in the situation (either her or him) showed no more common sense than the way a child would behave. Common sense doesn't magically hit you when you turn 18; some people younger than that have a lot of it, and some people make it their whole lives to old age with none of it.

[Jester]

STOP TALKING ABOUT MY BEARD! :tmad:

:lol: Yours and mine both, brother. :trazz:

I'm rather lucky that my hair is an interesting mix of dark brown, light brown, red, dirty blonde, and gold, and that it changes tint based on lighting and seasonal factors (darker in Winter, lighter in Summer). Because that really hides the strands of silver I see more of every day and other people swear they don't notice. :lol: It just kinda blends in.

Frankly, I don't care if it turns Bright Pink, so long as it stays on my head. :lol:
Mine beard's pretty grey too. 2 kids'll do that too ya. Hair on my head also has some too it. My dad's been grey as long as i can remember, so it's my fate really.

But as like Leo, I often say, "I don't care what color it turns, as along as it doesn't turn loose."

[Leo656]

My Dad was half-silver AND half-bald by my age. I count my blessing every single day. :lol:

My stylists sees the back of my head way more than I do, and they assure me that all's well. One annoying thing is that I have a growth spot on the back of my head that everything circles out from, like a "nexus point", and it's a little bit thinner than the rest because of that. So ever since I was like 4 years old people used to tease me about having a "bald spot" even though that's not at all what it is. :ohwell:

Whenever I watch a video of one of my matches, I'm watching my head like a hawk. :lol: "Whew! It's all still right where it belongs!" :trazz: When I let it grow really long and just brush it back, it does make my forehead line look like it's receding even though it's not. When I get the top and sides cut short it looks more "normal".

I would know if it was actually falling out. I'm like Uncle Jesse in the mirror with the ruler and the tape measure with that sh*t. :lol:

[IndigoErth]

Eh, if they stick with Yoshi becoming Splinter then the Turtles are basically adopted by a Japanese guy, so the Turtles have an excuse since it would be an adopted portion of the dual cultures that influence their upbringing. Easier to just tweak any stereotypes brought into question.

Sure, try to avoid the damsel in distress thing for the most part. Nothing wrong with a friend needing a save once in a while (and visa versa!), but don't overdo it and don't make that character incapable of even trying to help themselves. April doesn't need to be as good of a fighter, or a fighter at all, she's not a Turtle nor their sister and hasn't spent a lifetime training in martial arts. She has her own life and separate career choices. Were she much more like them and the Turtles were human or one of these girls Turtles among them sometimes were downplayed in comparison, then that itself would be an issue. April however should at least still be capable of trying to help herself in situations, not just waiting for rescue.



How did this turn into another hair thread. lol


edit: Of course, people objecting to things and wanting to "cancel" it is nothing new -- see: TMNT "Exposed!" and "Saturday Morning Mind Control" books -- we just didn't have a dumb term to apply to it back then.

[Prowler]

My hair is dark brown, but my beard/facial hair is black. There's some brown hairs mixed in too, but they're not noticeable unless I look myself in the mirror up close haha

[Coola Yagami]

I am pretty sure that by age 14, as I was, a person of either gender has a pretty good idea as to whether or not they want to have sex. I do admit that at that age they still may lack the foresight to be able to tell if they're making a "good decision" in doing so, measuring the consequences, etc.

But I don't think that lack of judgment or foresight magically goes away at age 18, either. A girl I was good friends with in High School, when she as 18, was having an affair with a married man in his 30s who had kids. She knew it was wrong, she just completely did not care. If the guy's wife found out? "I'm not scared'a her, I can take her." If the guy lost his entire family over it? "That's all on him, I never put a gun to his head, he's doing what he wants to do." That was her rationale. No idea whatever came of that, but I definitely lost some respect for her over the whole deal. She showed an incredible lack of foresight, judgment, and even basic empathy in the way she handled that entire situation.

But, she was an "adult" and thus free to do Whatever. Even if the "adults" in the situation (either her or him) showed no more common sense than the way a child would behave. Common sense doesn't magically hit you when you turn 18; some people younger than that have a lot of it, and some people make it their whole lives to old age with none of it.

I'm thinking in a kid's case, the ones that end up with trauma of some sort are either just not mentally ready for sexual things, were possibly very sheltered by the parents from sexual things, or are too young to understand the 'hook up' concept and are devastated when they find out their teacher was screwing his buddies too. In a sense I kinda think these teachers target these kids cause they're more likely to keep it quiet while I guess the more 'hormonal ones' would be bragging that they had their junk down Miss Nichol's throat to anyone that would listen.

A guess in that example you gave, girls are far more dangerous than guys are. A kid knows that other than the high-fives his father might give him, his mother is gonna ground him to kingdom come if he gets caught, but no one, literally no one is gonna look at the girl as anything other than 'that poor little angel victim' while the dude ends up getting passed around in jail.

I just feel a lot of it glossed over cause of 'nice' and 'where were these teachers when I was in school' and whatnot, but like has anyone actually bothered to examine exactly WHY an adult attractive woman that could have a train ran on her if she so chose to, would rather go after kids instead? WTF.

[PizzaPower1985]

Things should only be cancelled if they are harmful. What the hell is harmful about any of this?

[Coola Yagami]

Things should only be cancelled if they are harmful. What the hell is harmful about any of this?

All it takes is some idiot to be like 'hey, so I was watching the 80's TMNT and I just realized (insert woke sjw nonsense here)' and enough people to blow it up on Twitter.

Though the Turtles are done for the time being, there's nothing to really cancel. They would need to have some upcoming movie or whatever for these people to rally against. Or I guess make the crew lose their jobs.

If they come after Rob Paulsen, blood will be shed though.

[CyberCubed]

I'm surprise whitewashing Baxter didn't cause an uproar years later.

[Galactus]

Things should only be cancelled if they are harmful. What the hell is harmful about any of this?

Absolutely nothing. This thread is just trying to stir up trouble.

[Coola Yagami]

I'm surprise whitewashing Baxter didn't cause an uproar years later.

Yeah, but that's easily excusable because a black sniveling Baxter calling Shredder 'master' all the time woulda been worse.

The bigger problem woulda been has Baxter been a cool competent villain, then people would be raising the question why he was race-swapped.

[IMJ]

Absolutely nothing. This thread is just trying to stir up trouble.

It's a $#!(bag thread.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, but that's easily excusable because a black sniveling Baxter calling Shredder 'master' all the time woulda been worse.
Wow... just mentally heard "Yes, master" in his exact voice, as often said in the cartoon, and I never realized until this moment how super cringy that would have been, or at least be now, had they kept him black.

[superstaff]

Wow... just mentally heard "Yes, master" in his exact voice, as often said in the cartoon, and I never realized until this moment how super cringy that would have been, or at least be now, had they kept him black.

Thing is, doesn't he basically do this in his current depictions in 2003 and 2012? He calls him "Master Shredder" instead of just "Master", but still.

[IndigoErth]

True, though calling Shredder by name at least tweaks the way it is heard a little, and 2012 probably only ever does it when he's no longer human, I think?

2003... that guy always had his icy sarcasm and ulterior motives and his tone of voice reflects it. This Baxter at least seems less like a sniveling peon and more like a snake in the grass, abused by Shredder, but always trying to play him and waiting for his moment to strike. His personality got a little old after a while, but I still find him probably the most interesting of the cartoon versions.

[Coola Yagami]

Thing is, doesn't he basically do this in his current depictions in 2003 and 2012? He calls him "Master Shredder" instead of just "Master", but still.

Not really. 2K3 Baxter never respected Shredder, any time he called him Master was kinda sarcastic, if anything Hun called him Master a lot more.

Don't remember 2012 calling Shredder 'master' to be honest.

[Leo656]

I really got a kick out of 2K3 Baxter.


How did this turn into another hair thread. lol


Every thread you and/or I post in will inevitably become a hair thread.

It is the burden of those with awesome hair to educate those less fortunate. I don't make the rules I just enforce them.

[IndigoErth]

lol Not to brag, but as long as mine is at this point, I have been getting a few compliments lately. (But good god I can't wait until I feel comfortable to go get it cut and be done with the endless tangles, etc.)

[sdp]

I'm surprise whitewashing Baxter didn't cause an uproar years later.

In my headcanon 1987 Baxter just had vitiligo, he's still black. Rise April just has one of those fake tans which is why she looks black, but she's still white, just happens to be very tanned. For reference this is a white model with a super tan:

https://www.thelocal.se/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/28dd4a6fafafeaeff2c416d8200539d5ad84c2cd9a139472e1 7a99a0366777ae.jpg

Rise Casey is trans, so he's technically still male.

[Rooish]

Omg you sound like paranoid lunatics. No, TMNT is adaptable and generally inoffensive.

[Leo656]

Since we're on the subject of folks who are Racially Confusing... Lest we forget who holds the undisputed World Championship for "Blackest White Man In The Entire Known Universe"... :lol:

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/9e/c6/b6/9ec6b6c5a810de404493e0c3bddd63c0.jpg

He's technically half-Italian and half-Panaminian, but c'mon... he's totally "black". :trazz: Sinbad and Dennis Rodman put together aren't as dark as he is! Aside from having skin that's exactly the same color and consistency as bacon that's been overcooked in the microwave, and using the word "brother" instead of pausing for breath, he's also the only guy to ever wear a doo-rag in court and win. :lol: Totally Black. :trazz:

None of this, however, explains why he has silken hair of a Chinese man, or why said hair is naturally bleach-blonde (before age took its toll and it all turned white on its own). Like, what the F*CK is going on with this dude? :lol: Every single physical trait he has makes no sense in context with the rest of him. It's nuts!

"The Blackest White Man Ever" is NOT to be confused with the championship for "Whitest Black Man Ever". Who I assume is still Wayne Brady.

[Jester]

Omg you sound like paranoid lunatics. No, TMNT is adaptable and generally inoffensive.
Believe me, people from ANY side can find SOMETHING offensive about the seemingly inoffensive.

Need we be reminded:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510YVFQ8B8L._SX294_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

[Leo656]

Scott Steiner is VERY offended. :lol:

https://media.giphy.com/media/zSP7TZLAUiys0/200.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/6cff5a63c41dbd2b0a27f14609cb8673/tenor.gif
https://media.tenor.com/images/9f11f594c7dc764f9f9154a94d7d1a1d/tenor.gif
https://media1.tenor.com/images/e81a17b49fd638cb69beee1def9bce05/tenor.gif?itemid=9041546
F-dZGsd2rAY

[Jester]

t2mU6USTBRE

[Leo656]

eoGxmkGJPZ0

[Allio]

Can you really get onto TMNT for "japanese stereotypes" when the most offensive japanese stereotypes was from the manga turtles done by japanese people?

[CyberCubed]

If the Turtles were raised by a Japanese sensei why do they all speak in New York lingo? Shouldn't they all have Japanese accents? Nobody ever seemed to think of this.

[Leo656]

They don't even speak in "New York lingo." They talk like Bill and Ted who are from f*cking San Dimas. These idiots don't know WHAT they are. :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

They don't even speak in "New York lingo." They talk like Bill and Ted who are from f*cking San Dimas. These idiots don't know WHAT they are. :lol:

Even back in the day I remember Elbert or someone reviewing one of the TMNT VHS tapes mentioning that 'they speak with California lingo which seems out of place in New York'.

[Refractive Reflections]

Except Splinter/Hamato Yoshi WAS Japanese.

Idk,has the twitter crowd run out of targets,so they might come for 30 y.o. cartoon? It's possible,I guess.

This stupid thread got pretty far without a mention of Kevin Splinter Clash being accused of diddlying kids. Whatever happened with that?
It's a $#!(bag thread.
Things should only be cancelled if they are harmful. What the hell is harmful about any of this?
Absolutely nothing. This thread is just trying to stir up trouble.
Omg you sound like paranoid lunatics. No, TMNT is adaptable and generally inoffensive.

Have you read the articles linked on the original post? They came after Looney Tunes, Dr. Seuss and Disney which are older than TMNT. If you think this isn't a possibility, were you able to foresee all of this "cancelling" upon children's cartoons and literature just 10, or 5 years ago? The definition of "harmful" has changed over the years from when they were originally created, and this is why some cartoons and literature are being restricted presently, and deemed unsuitable for children.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm a bit on R. Kelly's side. He's a weird dude into some really, really weird sh**... but when you listen to these women speak out against him, they knew damn well what they were getting into. Every one of them.

[superstaff]

Not really. 2K3 Baxter never respected Shredder, any time he called him Master was kinda sarcastic, if anything Hun called him Master a lot more.

Don't remember 2012 calling Shredder 'master' to be honest.

Yeah, it was, but he still called him "Master". I'm pretty sure I've heard 2012 Baxter call him "Master Shredder", especially in the latter seasons.

Omg you sound like paranoid lunatics. No, TMNT is adaptable and generally inoffensive.

Clearly, you were not around in 2017/2018 when crap hit the fan in the fandom over ROTTMNT. Also, as Jester said, almost anything can be deemed offensive to people out there.

If the Turtles were raised by a Japanese sensei why do they all speak in New York lingo? Shouldn't they all have Japanese accents? Nobody ever seemed to think of this.

My mother has a spanish accent, but I don't have one.

[CyberCubed]

I get the feeling we might get a transgender Karai in a future incarnation. For some reason Karai strikes me as the type of character they would do that with. She has to be "head" of the Foot Clan after all, it's best to be both genders when you're a leader of a ninja clan typically controlled by men.

[Prowler]

Ofc the Turtles don't have a Japanese accent like Splinter/Yoshi do. They were born and raised in USA. They're Americans. They've never been to Japan. The language they grew up listening to on TV and the radio was English.

As for them not having New York accents, well not every TV show and movie is set in New York. The Turtles didn't seem to venture outside much before meeting April. Meaning they didn't have any significant contact with humans before meeting her. So they must have learned how to talk from watching TV.

And even a lot of shows and movies set in NYC don't have New York actors in them. One of the few common complains I've read people make about Seinfeld online was how "it's in NYC but nearly everyone speaks with a Californian accent".

In the 2k3 series, Raphael had more of a stereotypical New York accent. His brothers didn't, however.

[sdp]

In mirage all turtles have NY accents, those are the versions that count not the kid versions of cartoons.

[Andrew NDB]

There is always the whole, "They got their accents from watching TV" thing. Not because of people in NY (they don't interact with them anyway) or CA.

[CyberCubed]

How do the Turtles find a working TV in the sewer anyway? Is there even any place down there to plug it in?

[Andrew NDB]

How do the Turtles find a working TV in the sewer anyway? Is there even any place down there to plug it in?

It's not hard to imagine "supply runs" at night in alleys and dumpsters and all. They'd find a TV eventually. And I'm sure they could patch into some maintenance power line underground... something has to power those lights for sewer workers.

[Rooish]

Believe me, people from ANY side can find SOMETHING offensive about the seemingly inoffensive.

Need we be reminded:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510YVFQ8B8L._SX294_BO1,204,203,200_.jpg

Bahaha I forgot about that. Someone tried to cancel it but it didn't work then. I guess the only real issue is the Japanese ninja appropriation stuff, but for some reason this has not yet become a cancellable issue. Maybe some Japanese people will take offense but that doesn't seem to catch on.

[Andrew NDB]

Maybe some Japanese people will take offense but that doesn't seem to catch on.

That's not really the way it works. It'd be some white people getting offended on behalf of Japanese people, not Japanese people themselves.

[Coola Yagami]

That's not really the way it works. It'd be some white people getting offended on behalf of Japanese people, not Japanese people themselves.

And it won't work anyway cause Hamato Yoshi and Oroku Saki ARE Japanese.

EDIT- I forgot, it wouldn't be the case if the character are or aren't Japanese, the big 'crime' would be that a bunch of white people are writing stories about Japanese people and martial arts.

[IMJ]

Have you read the articles linked on the original post? They came after Looney Tunes, Dr. Seuss and Disney which are older than TMNT. If you think this isn't a possibility, were you able to foresee all of this "cancelling" upon children's cartoons and literature just 10, or 5 years ago? The definition of "harmful" has changed over the years from when they were originally created, and this is why some cartoons and literature are being restricted presently, and deemed unsuitable for children.

The definition of harmful hasn't changed at all. This is the kind of nonsense that onboarders say to justify lunacy.

The use of "harmful" has been weaponized, mostly by people who are making any connection they can that involves "race" in order to make a statement. If the people who weaponize action against perceived "harmful behaviours" really cared about harm then there would be greater subscription to "live and let live" instead of "outrage and cancellation".

It's all a lie. All of it. And the changes you mentioned are done out of fear of the witch hunt. Which is ironic, because so many people don't want to acknowledge this as what's going on, yet they sure as hell are afraid of it. It's all a lie and it's so deep that even people who know it's a lie continue to lie about it out of fear.

That's not really the way it works. It'd be some white people getting offended on behalf of Japanese people, not Japanese people themselves.


Exactly. This guy above was saying that the definition of harmful has changed as if this is all a movement of a genuine nature. It's not. It's a movement of reverse psychology and verbal judo. It's all a lie that has caught on for the same reasons that an entire town was overtaken by mania in Massachusetts and burned people alive in Salem. It's the exact same thing, and the fact that we see so many posts about it here for example tells us clearly that the world is still populated with same emotionally clad fool archetypes of humanity as was back then. It's the exact same thing - even an ahead of the curve fifth grader could see it if not mired in the psychology social acceptance.

[CyberCubed]

As a white man I am offended that those who are offended aren't really offended but are pretending to be offended for those of us who think they are offended. Meanwhile it is the ones who are really offended but don't seem like they're offended because white people are offended upon their behalf and think they are offended meanwhile it belittles the ones who really are offended because other people think they can be offended to when they are not the ones who are offended.

You can only be offended so much.

[IndigoErth]

Poor excuse. Too often those who are the target of something and actually do want it to stop are ignored. Too easy just to pretend it's only white people and don't matter since that then excuses any need to change or make an effort to stop being a jerk. The real voices whose opinion matter tend to be ignored if they don't like it; a few cherry picked opinions that don't care tend to be pointed at as proof that it fine, but the rest ignored.

[Leo656]

Words aren't bullets. They shouldn't hurt so bad.

- Signed, "A Kid Who Got Teased, Picked On, Bullied, and Occasionally Beaten Up Almost Constantly From Kindergarten Through The End Of 8th Grade, But Refused To Succumb To 'Victim' Mentality And In Turn Became A Better, Stronger Person"

P.S.: If anyone tries to say it's "not the same for white people", I'd argue that being beaten up by a half-dozen kids and thrown in a ditch because your parents got arrested for drugs, being called "trash" and taunted for "living in a cardboard box" because the bank foreclosed on your house and you had to move to a sh*tbox apartment, and told that "nobody's ever going to love you, you're gross" because you're short, skinny, and have rather effeminate facial features, all hurts JUST as much no matter what your skin color is. I'd actually argue that those things are much, much worse than calling an Indian kid "Apu" or making Mulan jokes at Asian kids.

Seriously. I have an open-hand for anyone who even tries to argue that either white people are "immune" from bullying, or that race makes a damn bit of difference.

Yeah, people could and should be nicer. But they're not, and they're never going to be. Therefore, people NEED to Toughen Up. We don't live in "I Wish" Land. Every single person is taught "Treat others the way YOU want to be treated" by the age of 5. MOST people in turn just chuck that right out the window. It's never gonna change. Expecting or even hoping that it will is wasted energy.

Just Be The Change You Want To See and let that be good enough. Nobody's changing the world. Ever.

[IMJ]

Words aren't bullets. They shouldn't hurt so bad.

- Signed, "A Kid Who Got Teased, Picked On, Bullied, and Occasionally Beaten Up Almost Constantly From Kindergarten Through The End Of 8th Grade, But Refused To Succumb To 'Victim' Mentality And In Turn Became A Better, Stronger Person"

P.S.: If anyone tries to say it's "not the same for white people", I'd argue that being beaten up by a half-dozen kids and thrown in a ditch because your parents got arrested for drugs, being called "trash" and taunted for "living in a cardboard box" because the bank foreclosed on your house and you had to move to a sh*tbox apartment, and told that "nobody's ever going to love you, you're gross" because you're short, skinny, and have rather effeminate facial features, all hurts JUST as much no matter what your skin color is. I'd actually argue that those things are much, much worse than calling an Indian kid "Apu" or making Mulan jokes at Asian kids.

Seriously. I have an open-hand for anyone who even tries to argue that either white people are "immune" from bullying, or that race makes a damn bit of difference.

Yeah, people could and should be nicer. But they're not, and they're never going to be. Therefore, people NEED to Toughen Up. We don't live in "I Wish" Land. Every single person is taught "Treat others the way YOU want to be treated" by the age of 5. MOST people in turn just chuck that right out the window. It's never gonna change. Expecting or even hoping that it will is wasted energy.

Just Be The Change You Want To See and let that be good enough. Nobody's changing the world. Ever.

I dont think that people ever actually care about the words. I think it's more often than not the intent. The fact that you know someone is provoking you with anything they have because they've chosen to dislike you is what I think get under people's skin most of the time.

But see, that in of itself is part of the problem. The ego's and narcissism of "the offended" informs those very people that they are being personally attacked - as if they are so important to the world that all of these offensive things must be directed at them.

Being offended nowadays is more often than not a sign of weaponized reverse-attack from an @$$hole, or a sign of narcissism that an @$$hole thinks they are so important that everything is about them.

If you could remove those two paradigms and were left only with valid situations in which normal, well-adjusted people became genuinely offended by something, then you'd only have 2% of the current problem remaining.

[IndigoErth]

People just need to stop complicating the whole issue.

If a demographic that is the target of something calls BS on it, then it's BS. The response should be to tweak our understanding of manners and basic respect for other people, not more or less scream 'false flag' and act victimized for being told/asked to stop, which too many seem to do.


But yeah, bullying certainly happens across the board. Some have what it takes to strengthen themselves in the face of it, and unfortunately some do not.

[Iroh]

I think the only group that will try to cancel TMNT is PETA. :tlol:
I remember when people were trying to cancel TMNT back in 1989 because slime was making its mark in the toy industry at a devastating rate. There was a news segment about how concerns are being raised about a boy's fascination with gooey toys that are deemed nasty to parents. In my opinion, if TMNT were going to be cancelled, it would be by the OG collectors and viewers such as myself that has been there from the beginning. I don't have any notions of being offended from what I have been seeing all of these years. The only thing that I hate is how the turtles look now. LMAO!:tlol:

[IndigoErth]

I don't recall the issue over the slime, but too funny that it's like 10x as popular with kids today. Though Nick and that old show "You can't do that on Television" is probably way more to blame for it back then than the Turtles. :trazz: That show invented it as one of Nick's trademark things. Kids now have no idea where that started.


Now I want a TMNT vs PETA short. Not really as foes, but just as the sometimes misguided organization that it is and struggles to accept that no, the TMNT are people capable of making their own decisions and don't want to "return to the wild."

[Iroh]

That would be hilarious to watch!:lol:

[Sumac]

If a demographic that is the target of something calls BS on it, then it's BS. The response should be to tweak our understanding of manners and basic respect for other people, not more or less scream 'false flag' and act victimized for being told/asked to stop, which too many seem to do.
Except most of the time most prominent voices belong to "white knights" and supposedly offended party either doesn't see the issue or don't really care, since the issue is so miniscule there is no serious harmful intent or offense.
Like recently, when SJW scum attempted to cancel Speedy Gonzalez again and pretty much all Latino / Mexican told them that they liked the character.

[IndigoErth]

Yeah, but that's what I'm talking about.

Same thing with a couple sports team names and logos/mascots over here for example. Some Native people might shrug and not care and so some people, mostly white ones, point and say "Look, they don't care, it's fine!" but they ignore the many Native people who DO care and don't like it because those select people who shrug it off offer confirmation bias, and those who don't like it are denied a voice in the matter because their opinion isn't what other people want to hear. That is what I mean.


Basically, white people on both sides of an issue have a bad habit of trying to decide everything...

[IMJ]

Except most of the time most prominent voices belong to "white knights" and supposedly offended party either doesn't see the issue or don't really care, since the issue is so miniscule there is no serious harmful intent or offense.
Like recently, when SJW scum attempted to cancel Speedy Gonzalez again and pretty much all Latino / Mexican told them that they liked the character.

And not only that, but they don't have to like the character. It's a joke and it makes more people laugh than otherwise and I refuse to believe that people at large watch Speedy Gonzalez and then as a direct result are completely informed about Hispanic people. Which is an irony because it seems that there are more people at large nowadays that believe that would happen! It's the new idiot population. They don't watch Speedy and believe that all Hispanics are like that mouse, but instead they watch Speedy and believe that everyone will believe that all Hispanics are like that mouse.

The point is that caricatures are around for a reason and it isn't widely to oppress people.

But instead of becoming educated and being able to tell the difference, we just have people running around pointing at anything they can as part of the movement. And that alone, on it's own merits are the actions of the kind of people in society that we shouldn't be listening to in the first place.

Yeah, but that's what I'm talking about.

Same thing with a couple sports team names and logos/mascots over here for example. Some Native people might shrug and not care and so some people, mostly white ones, point and say "Look, they don't care, it's fine!" but they ignore the many Native people who DO care and don't like it because those select people who shrug it off offer confirmation bias, and those who don't like it are denied a voice in the matter because their opinion isn't what other people want to hear. That is what I mean.


Basically, white people on both sides of an issue have a bad habit of trying to decide everything...

LOL! Yeah. That's complete bull $#!(.

The point isn't who is offended and who says not to be. The point is that live and let live, support what you like and avoid what you don't. You are taking some position that everyone has as a stake in this, but most normal people actually don't - normal people of all races. Most of it is complete nonsense that doesn't yield a stakeholder beyond enjoyment or disregard. This country wasn't built on cancelling and demanding conformity to everyone else's framework, and capitalism grew to accommodate choice by voting with patronage. That's it.

[Galactus]

The above is very true.

Also I don't see the harm in putting a disclaimer in front of shows, movies or even books we know have problematic elements in them. Disney have been doing that for years. They released their War Propaganda shorts and had introductions by Leonard Maltin talking about the context of which they were made. Likewise I have some collected Floyd Gottfredson Mickey Mouse strips that have essays at the front some of which include an explanations of the same of the stuff that would be seen as racist now and even one of my Carl Barks Uncle Scrooge does the same. Would you rather that or censoring them or even removing them all together?

[IMJ]

The above is very true.

Also I don't see the harm in putting a disclaimer in front of shows, movies or even books we know have problematic elements in them. Disney have been doing that for years. They released their War Propaganda shorts and had introductions by Leonard Maltin talking about the context of which they were made. Likewise I have some collected Floyd Gottfredson Mickey Mouse strips that have essays at the front some of which include an explanations of the same of the stuff that would be seen as racist now and even one of my Carl Barks Uncle Scrooge does the same. Would you rather that or censoring them or even removing them all together?

Exactly.

And congrats on having a normalized POV on this that isn't galvanized like Indigo going on about "white people" and other nonsense.

And really above all else is that this is why we have a ratings system on things now. To aid in consumer choice. Nothing wrong with continuous improvement on it that might add a note or a rater that annotates some of the older content.

But on that note, not a fan of "trigger warnings" at all. Easy explanation - trigger warnings are intended to prime shallower thinkers to "be ready". But those same people have a tendency to have "informed reaction". We all know it. It's like when you tell a child not to do something because it could be bad and their response is to over dramatize that thing instead of simply acting on it. And so, trigger warnings that are so blunt actually invite problems from these stunted people instead of diffuse problems.

That's who we are dealing with as a society. The empowered idiot.

[IndigoErth]

I guess I should start adding a trigger warning to my posts just for you.

[Leo656]

https://thumbs.gfycat.com/MatureNaiveIndianglassfish-size_restricted.gif

[Refractive Reflections]

Except most of the time most prominent voices belong to "white knights" and supposedly offended party either doesn't see the issue or don't really care, since the issue is so miniscule there is no serious harmful intent or offense.
Like recently, when SJW scum attempted to cancel Speedy Gonzalez again and pretty much all Latino / Mexican told them that they liked the character.

To add to that, it's usually the loudest SJWs who selectively dictate and make policies to other racial minorities what is considered to be racist/offensive or not for them. For example, the massacre in Atlanta is considered racism against Asian Americans, but the affirmative action policy on elite colleges that use race as a factor of admission is not (https://visiontimes.com/2021/03/03/white-and-asian-students-file-discrimination-suits-against-yale-and-harvard.html), when it restricts Asian-American college admission because of their high achievement.

[Sumac]

Yeah, but that's what I'm talking about.

Same thing with a couple sports team names and logos/mascots over here for example. Some Native people might shrug and not care and so some people, mostly white ones, point and say "Look, they don't care, it's fine!" but they ignore the many Native people who DO care and don't like it because those select people who shrug it off offer confirmation bias, and those who don't like it are denied a voice in the matter because their opinion isn't what other people want to hear. That is what I mean.

Basically, white people on both sides of an issue have a bad habit of trying to decide everything...
Well, than how about offended party saying it for themselves?
Because, in most situations like this its basically reduced to white people vs white people on behalf of parties that don't care. It doesn't reduce racism, its just ego pandering.

And saying "somebody cares"...its kind of pointless. If they care - they will say so. Assuming something on behalf of others is just stupid.

Also, SJWs don't understand context and that people are not parrots and won't instantly imitate something that they've seen on screen or have been told.

And even than, normal people tend to overthink stuff and see offensive context where there is none. Like how "Red Skins" logo was offensive? To who? How?

To add to that, it's usually the loudest SJWs who selectively dictate and make policies to other racial minorities what is considered to be racist/offensive or not for them. For example, the massacre in Atlanta is considered racism against Asian Americans, but the affirmative action policy on elite colleges that use race as a factor of admission is not (https://visiontimes.com/2021/03/03/white-and-asian-students-file-discrimination-suits-against-yale-and-harvard.html), when it restricts Asian-American college admission because of their high achievement.
This is what I hate about SJWs the most: their ideology is entirely situational and dictated by who is highest on a victim totem pole at the moment.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Like people growing weed the turtles prolly "borrows" electricity (been watching UK landlords show with horrible tenants , one guy lost 20k £ :x

[Coola Yagami]

Except most of the time most prominent voices belong to "white knights" and supposedly offended party either doesn't see the issue or don't really care, since the issue is so miniscule there is no serious harmful intent or offense.
Like recently, when SJW scum attempted to cancel Speedy Gonzalez again and pretty much all Latino / Mexican told them that they liked the character.

Or the Scarjo/Motoko Kusanagi example where Japanese people didn't see a problem, where the creator of Motoko himself didn't see the problem but sjws were trying to make it part of their white-washing campaign. Despite the fact that Scajo flat out looks like the character, they even went as far as to say 'it doesn't matter what the creator says'. Like dude, sit down and stfu.

[IMJ]

I guess I should start adding a trigger warning to my posts just for you.

LOL you don't trigger me, man. :lol::lol: Holy $#!(... :lol:
shakes head God

You want to focus on me so tightly, but all that really means is that my points are more solid, poignant, and crushing you all to hell. HAHAHAHA Jesus. If you said something actually informed, wise or of valid life experienced (that I believed) I'd do with you what I'd do with anyone - respect it and discuss that. But you don't. LOL that's all there is to it.

Or the Scarjo/Motoko Kusanagi example where Japanese people didn't see a problem, where the creator of Motoko himself didn't see the problem but sjws were trying to make it part of their white-washing campaign. Despite the fact that Scajo flat out looks like the character, they even went as far as to say 'it doesn't matter what the creator says'. Like dude, sit down and stfu.

And now what society needs as a whole is to take what you've said here and turn it into an operating model to crush these fools completely. Because right now the operating model is to pander to them. And it's being done out of fear of being scarlet lettered - not real support. And only the people deepest down that "belief well" don't know it.

[Coola Yagami]

LOL you don't trigger me, man. :lol::lol: Holy $#!(... :lol:
shakes head God

You want to focus on me so tightly, but all that really means is that my points are more solid, poignant, and crushing you all to hell. HAHAHAHA Jesus. If you said something actually informed, wise or of valid life experienced (that I believed) I'd do with you what I'd do with anyone - respect it and discuss that. But you don't. LOL that's all there is to it.



And now what society needs as a whole is to take what you've said here and turn it into an operating model to crush these fools completely. Because right now the operating model is to pander to them. And it's being done out of fear of being scarlet lettered - not real support. And only the people deepest down that "belief well" don't know it.

Another thing I'm against is the LatinX crap. Just because, well.... white people... have problems with the gender-neutral words and pronouns we use, doesn't mean they have to 'do us a favor' and create weird new ways to make our pronouns gender-nuetral. We're fine with Latino and Latina. We don't need other people branding us with other names.

I consider any Latino/a openly using LatinX to describe themselves as ignorant stupid borderline race traitors for going along with what some other race is saying you should call yourself. The hell with that.

No. The super ****ing hell with that.

[Sumac]

It is similar to "womXn" crap, which Twitch attempted to use some time to "celebrate women" (or rather men who pretend to be women) sometime ago and caused backlash.

[IndigoErth]

WomXn? What is that even supposed to mean. Not even pronounceable. Think there are better ways to celebrate people without applying new terms or making up new words for everything.

edit: If it was intended for trans women, "womYn" for the chromosomes would at least have been more clever and able to be pronounced. Though making any such distinctions probably would have backlash any way you do it.



respect it and discuss that.
But that "discussion" typically comes down to rejecting or clapping for other people's views. It's a pretty empty argument to call something "nonsense," yet offer no counter perspective of your own to support why it is supposedly nonsense. Your perspective... not why you think someone else holds the view you don't like.

Not sure you're aware, but you aren't the god of what opinions are "right."

And yeahhh...a person who can't look past posts with perspectives they don't agree with and impulsively (and compulsively?) always have to tell someone else that they're "wrong on the internet," isn't exactly acting not triggered.

Lets not forget that bit of amusingly inaccurate fan hate fiction who wrote about me a while ago. Dude... you already ruined any ability to tell me you aren't triggered at all.

Most of your posts I ignore. Sorry to say that doesn't mean you are/were right, imo. It means I generally don't care, don't tend to agree and typically ignore you in most cases unless you come at me first. Going back to ignoring you now because continuing this "argument" is stupid.

[IMJ]

It is similar to "womXn" crap, which Twitch attempted to use some time to "celebrate women" (or rather men who pretend to be women) sometime ago and caused backlash.

It's all a lie, man.
It's all from the same microcosm of thinkers in society that are just sitting around brainstorming this stuff while the zeitgeist is hot because they think it's going to buy them promotion points in history.

It's all a lie.

WomXn? What is that even supposed to mean. Not even pronounceable. Think there are better ways to celebrate people without applying new terms or making up new words for everything.

edit: If it was intended for trans women, "womYn" for the chromosomes would at least have been more clever and able to be pronounced. Though making any such distinctions probably would have backlash any way you do it.




But that "discussion" typically comes down to rejecting or clapping for other people's views. It's a pretty empty argument to call something "nonsense," yet offer no counter perspective of your own to support why it is supposedly nonsense. Your perspective... not why you think someone else holds the view you don't like.

Not sure you're aware, but you aren't the god of what opinions are "right."

And yeahhh...a person who can't look past posts with perspectives they don't agree with and impulsively (and compulsively?) always have to tell someone else that they're "wrong on the internet," isn't exactly acting not triggered.

Lets not forget that bit of amusingly inaccurate fan hate fiction who wrote about me a while ago. Dude... you already ruined any ability to tell me you aren't triggered at all.

Most of your posts I ignore. Sorry to say that doesn't mean you are/were right, imo. It means I generally don't care, don't tend to agree and typically ignore you in most cases unless you come at me first. Going back to ignoring you now because continuing this "argument" is stupid.

It's fine. I understand your point. I think there's an ignore button somewhere on the forums where, if I'm so problematic for you, you can hit it and never see my posts and probably eventually forget I'm here.

:) Take care.

[Sumac]

WomXn? What is that even supposed to mean. Not even pronounceable. Think there are better ways to celebrate people without applying new terms or making up new words for everything.

edit: If it was intended for trans women, "womYn" for the chromosomes would at least have been more clever and able to be pronounced. Though making any such distinctions probably would have backlash any way you do it.
It supposed to "inclusive" for men who pretend to be women and women who don't want identify as women (yeah, that ****'s dumb). It's like "LatinX" crap.

Gladly modern feminists put their heads out of their asses for once and complained about this ****. Even trans were against it and they usually do everything to diminish women.

[IMJ]

It supposed to "inclusive" for men who pretend to be women and women who don't want identify as women (yeah, that ****'s dumb). It's like "LatinX" crap.

Gladly modern feminists put their heads out of their asses for once and complained about this ****. Even trans were against it and they usually do everything to diminish women.

So basically it's another "change what you do and how you speak, for me over a non-issue", is basically what it is then.

[Andrew NDB]

So basically it's another "change what you do and how you speak, for me over a non-issue", is basically what it is then.

Mostly it's textbook virtue signaling. Random white weirdo: "I'm not from the Philippines and don't really know anybody who is... but I want to know I'm WITH you guys, and FIGHTING for you guys! Also, I want others who are fighting for causes see this and KNOW that *I* am fighting for something, too! Filipinx!!! Did you see what I said? #filipinx #equalityforall, etc.."

When everybody I know who is Filipino (a vast number, I was going to parties regularly numbering in the 100s before COVID) just laughs at that stuff, wanting nothing to do with it.

[Sumac]

So basically it's another "change what you do and how you speak, for me over a non-issue", is basically what it is then.
Yes, it is another method of controlling society and conditioning certain people to feel "lesser" than the others.

[IMJ]

Mostly it's textbook virtue signaling. Random white weirdo: "I'm not from the Philippines and don't really know anybody who is... but I want to know I'm WITH you guys, and FIGHTING for you guys! Also, I want others who are fighting for causes see this and KNOW that *I* am fighting for something, too! Filipinx!!! Did you see what I said? #filipinx #equalityforall, etc.."

When everybody I know who is Filipino (a vast number, I was going to parties regularly numbering in the 100s before COVID) just laughs at that stuff, wanting nothing to do with it.

Again, based on precedent, it's hard to disagree with your point of view, there. When you combine that with that thing I said elsewhere here about egging on a child's mentality and I can see how these things pick up steam from supporters of all races after the initial virtue signal of BS.

[Jester]

Scholastic (and author Dav Pilkey) just pulled one of his books The Adventures of Ook and Gluk: Kung-Fu Cavemen from the Future due to "passive racism" in regards to the title characters being taught Kung-fu from a Mr. Wong who is drawn in stereotypical short hand.

Now I do wonder how soon someone will come for TMNT since it's a story of Ninjas written by 2 white dudes.

[Sumac]

"Passive racism"...I want to punch those people in the mouth.
This cretins do more to perpetuate racism, hatred and segregation, than KKK could ever dream about.

[Refractive Reflections]

Scholastic (and author Dav Pilkey) just pulled one of his books The Adventures of Ook and Gluk: Kung-Fu Cavemen from the Future due to "passive racism" in regards to the title characters being taught Kung-fu from a Mr. Wong who is drawn in stereotypical short hand.

Now I do wonder how soon someone will come for TMNT since it's a story of Ninjas written by 2 white dudes.

Posted a link of the story (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=1886994) at the "Current Events" page.

---------------------------------------
Well don't be too surprised, but the clouds of that cancel culture storm are gathering. Here are some highlights from the following articles:

"Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is Worse Than You Thought (http://www.geekquality.com/tmnt/)" by Rick of GeekQuality

No, I’m not kidding. Master Splinter, wise leader of the Teenage Mutant Ninja turtles, is basically an overenthusiastic anime fan. He’s Mickey Mouse in yellowface. If you’ve ever wondered how to take a property that repackages a foreign culture for easy consumption by American kids and make it even more appropriative, now you have your answer.

....

Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is terrible for a lot of reasons. Even without the blatant sexism and racism, it still would have been extremely bad. Enumerating all the ways this film went wrong would make for a post that’s twice as long. This film comes from a place where it’s absolutely OK to have a female character relegated to just being a pretty thing with a destiny and cultural signifiers can be completely severed from the culture that created them, because they’re, you know, cool. A place where bad decision-making is shorthand for “Strong Female Character” and cultural appropriation can be fixed with a halfhearted last-minute rewrite. A place where none of this is a problem.

A place of privilege, in other words.


"Commentary: What's in a Ninja's name? Undercurrents of racism (https://www.inquirer.com/philly/opinion/20160613_Commentary__What_s_in_a_Ninja_s_name__Und ercurrents_of_racism.html)" by Karen E. Quinones Miller of The Philadelphia Inquirer


Yes, I'm saying it! The cartoon featuring those green, sewer-dwelling amphibians that everyone loves is racist. Subliminally racist. Insidiously racist.

I know. People are tired of folks accusing movies or television series of having racist content or undertones. Because, come on, if you look hard enough, you can convince yourself that anything can be racist. Right?

...

What bothers me the most is that it's subliminal and therefore insidious.

Subliminal because most of the children watching wouldn't yet know about the European Renaissance or be familiar with the names of musical genres like rocksteady and bebop. They're just watching a funny, action-packed cartoon. Thus the idea is insidiously planted in their brain: European culture good and black culture bad.


"Has The Word “Ninja” Been Culturally Appropriated? (https://www.dictionary.com/e/a-look-at-the-word-ninja/)" by Dictionary.com


Is ninja offensive?

Some people consider the extended use of ninja to be appropriative and offensive. Essentially, they argue, calling someone a “fill-in-the-skill ninja” strips the word of its meaning and its cultural roots, for the purpose of being funny, grabbing attention, or worse, turning a profit.

In a 2015 piece on the misappropriation of Asian culture in the tech industry, programmer Brian Kung explained how tech companies co-opt Asian culture, language, and ideas, like ninjas, Zen koans, and Buddhism to capitalize on our collective interest in these ideas. Kung described not just job listings for, say, programming ninjas but also coding programs that incorporate language about becoming a master of a skill and achieving enlightenment.Meanwhile, Asian labor is often exploited by major tech companies, such as in Apple factories overseas, where workers are rumored to work for low wages in terrible conditions. And, in the United States, Asian-Americans are disproportionately underrepresented in higher-level tech jobs. In 2014, Asian Americans made up just over two percent of corporate leadership at Fortune 500 companies, according to DiversityInc, despite making up a large percentage of highly skilled and educated tech industry workers.

In 2019, we watch American Ninja Warrior, an athletic competition TV show spun-off from its Japanese original, Sasuke. We bake ninja-bread cookies instead of gingerbread cookies. We post job listings for sales ninjas. We tell our friends they’re Candy Crush ninjas when they excel at mobile games—like Fruit Ninja.Clearly, we celebrate ninjas, but it’s worth examining how we use the word and whether or not we’re respecting its origins. Just as dressing in certain Halloween costumes (such as Native American headdresses) can be considered cultural appropriation, so, too, can adopting certain words and ideas without regard to their original culture and context.

[slashpieturtlemix]

Well, most of the cancel culture cases that are happening today are mainly by the creators or the copy right holders of that said material.

For example, Pepé Le Pew was removed by the copy right holders Time Warner / Warner Brothers. The reason they gave was that the stunk had a cartoon personality that does not age well and is actually sexist in many ways and can be a bad example upon kids.

Another example of this is the books removed by the Dr Suess estate. They own the rights to the books and they felt like the books did not have a place in modern society. I actually owned the Mulberry street book and the screen they discussed was a scene of stereotypical asian individuals running down Mulberry street during the book. Does it age well? Not really. It's still a stereotype.

Here is a great example, Disney. Just Disney. Disney put warning labels in front of several of their Ips on Disney+. Why did they do it? Because the Jim Crows in Dumbo, the Indians in Peter Pan and the Siamese cats in Aristocats was also an asian stereotype.

What everyone is considering as cancel culture seems to really be owners of the brands flexing their muscle so that their name isn't tarnished in history. No one wants to be remembered as a racist like Winsor McCay (Little Nemo).

[IMJ]

Posted a link of the story (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=1886994) at the "Current Events" page.

---------------------------------------
Well don't be too surprised, but the clouds of that cancel culture storm are gathering. Here are some highlights from the following articles:

"Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles is Worse Than You Thought (http://www.geekquality.com/tmnt/)" by Rick of GeekQuality



"Commentary: What's in a Ninja's name? Undercurrents of racism (https://www.inquirer.com/philly/opinion/20160613_Commentary__What_s_in_a_Ninja_s_name__Und ercurrents_of_racism.html)" by Karen E. Quinones Miller of The Philadelphia Inquirer



"Has The Word “Ninja” Been Culturally Appropriated? (https://www.dictionary.com/e/a-look-at-the-word-ninja/)" by Dictionary.com

What is your position on the the opinion pieces you've posted here?

[Jester]

Well, most of the cancel culture cases that are happening today are mainly by the creators or the copy right holders of that said material.

For example, Pepé Le Pew was removed by the copy right holders Time Warner / Warner Brothers. The reason they gave was that the stunk had a cartoon personality that does not age well and is actually sexist in many ways and can be a bad example upon kids.

Another example of this is the books removed by the Dr Suess estate. They own the rights to the books and they felt like the books did not have a place in modern society. I actually owned the Mulberry street book and the screen they discussed was a scene of stereotypical asian individuals running down Mulberry street during the book. Does it age well? Not really. It's still a stereotype.

Here is a great example, Disney. Just Disney. Disney put warning labels in front of several of their Ips on Disney+. Why did they do it? Because the Jim Crows in Dumbo, the Indians in Peter Pan and the Siamese cats in Aristocats was also an asian stereotype.

What everyone is considering as cancel culture seems to really be owners of the brands flexing their muscle so that their name isn't tarnished in history. No one wants to be remembered as a racist like Winsor McCay (Little Nemo).
But only the Mouse is doing it correctly by pointing to the issue, but not completely removing the works from circulation...except for Song of the South. We cannot change the past and the past can hurt but we can learn from it...I learned THAT from a Disney movie.

[slashpieturtlemix]

But only the Mouse is doing it correctly by pointing to the issue, but not completely removing the works from circulation...except for Song of the South. We cannot change the past and the past can hurt but we can learn from it...I learned THAT from a Disney movie.

I can agree to a certain extent. I know the Le Pew thing came up because an actress from the new Space Jam was complaining that her scene with him was cut. WB hasn't announced they retired the character as far as I am aware. They also haven't retired his episodes in their cartoons either. This could be simply an editing situation but everyone complained so much that we are just under the assumption is was a decision to remove him.

The Dr. Seuss books were simply retired from production and can still be found on ebay and other used outlets. His books were heavily popular and can be found since they were produced in bulk for years on end.

The Disney moves can still be accessed.

All of these "cancel culture" complaining is about stuff that is still easily accessible. You just can't watch a 2021 cartoon movie with a Le Pew scene, get a brand new book of books we mostly didn't know were in the Seuess library and you have to get a history lesson for your Disney movie. I don't see those as bad things for what is supposed to better the world for kids.

Also, I don't think we could easily provide a section for context for most of these cases. You can't exactly start off a Dr Seuss book with a label telling kids that this scene on page 15 is actually racist and the book wouldn't make sense without it. The tv shows, they can add a little historical section but it can only go so far for 30 minute episodes from the 50s, 60s, and 70s.

[Leo656]

All censorship is wrong. The End.

[slashpieturtlemix]

All censorship is wrong. The End.

The song of the south disagrees :tlol: but on a serious note, they have some horrible stuff that deserves to be censored. Especially with comics and animation. My personal favorite example is Impie from Little Nemo. Does that character deserve to be in comics in this day and age? Absolutely not but he still exists in its past.

[Leo656]

Even if things are "wrong" or "bad" they can be re-framed as a "teachable moment" or a learning experience. Nobody learns anything if you just sweep things under the rug and pretend they never happened.

I'm also a big fan of a free-market economy where people can purchase and consume whatever content they wish as free-thinking adults, without some unelected third party telling them what they are "allowed" to see. If a person wants to watch "Song of the South", or the episode of The Simpsons with Michael Jackson, or read some of those Seuss books, that's their right.

I'm fine with disclaimers, although their necessity is debatable. Conversation is useful, forced silence is not.

Side Note: I think it's hilarious that if you look at the Big Picture, some of the same people out there who advocate for media censorship because these things are "dangerous" are also 100% in favor of drug legalization "because that should be a person's individual choice". So sticking needles in your arm is Perfectly Fine, but we can't let kids see a cartoon or a movie because it'll warp 'em. That makes perfect sense! :lol:

[slashpieturtlemix]

Even if things are "wrong" or "bad" they can be re-framed as a "teachable moment" or a learning experience. Nobody learns anything if you just sweep things under the rug and pretend they never happened.

I'm also a big fan of a free-market economy where people can purchase and consume whatever content they wish as free-thinking adults, without some unelected third party telling them what they are "allowed" to see. If a person wants to watch "Song of the South", or the episode of The Simpsons with Michael Jackson, or read some of those Seuss books, that's their right.

I'm fine with disclaimers, although their necessity is debatable. Conversation is useful, forced silence is not.

Side Note: I think it's hilarious that if you look at the Big Picture, some of the same people out there who advocate for media censorship because these things are "dangerous" are also 100% in favor of drug legalization "because that should be a person's individual choice". So sticking needles in your arm is Perfectly Fine, but we can't let kids see a cartoon or a movie because it'll warp 'em. That makes perfect sense! :lol:

:tlol: I can understand the argument. I know when I went to art college, we were forced to watch several of these "banned" cartoons and movies for historical reasons. Most of the stuff is available, you just have to buy it used. You can make the argument that everyone is allowed access to them (which they are with used copies), its just that companies are deciding to not reproduce them because it will hurt their brand image overall and their capital intake. So this is literally a situation of the company telling us that they feel like it will hurt their revenue if they make it and have decided not to. And we all know that in the USA, money is literally everything.

[Leo656]

True and fair. It's just probably irritating for those who do want to see these things, having to jump through extra hoops.

I confess a lot of my own misgivings have to do with the whole "Slippery Slope" thing. Once it starts, where does it end? And who elected these people to be arbiters of Good Taste, anyway?

It's like with Peacock suddenly and arbitrarily censoring a few things on the WWE Network now that they own it. At first, a lot of people said "Well, it was just those two things out of thousands of hours of content; it's not like they're gonna go through the entire catalog and start cutting stuff just because they feel like it!" Except then the next day they announced that that's EXACTLY what they're doing. And given the nature of pro wrestling in general, a huge chunk of stuff that's happened over the decades is now "problematic", and therefore susceptible to being put under the knife, all at the whims of some faceless executives. And people are pissed because part of what they're paying for with the Network is to have access to the "complete" video archives at the press of a button; that's what was advertised, that's what people are paying for. It doesn't hurt people like me - I kept all my DVDs and old VHS tapes, in huge part because I don't like the streaming model of "You don't own any of this sh*t and we can take it away from you at any time for any or no reason" - but a TON of people had already sold off their DVD collections for exactly that reason, "The Network has everything anyway", and now they're supremely annoyed because of the current situation. They're not thrilled about buying back stuff they already sold - and thanks to the current situation making those DVDs "in-demand" again, in most cases those people are gonna pay more to buy them back than whatever price they sold them for. Can you blame them for being pissed?

It's just stupid.

[slashpieturtlemix]

True and fair. It's just probably irritating for those who do want to see these things, having to jump through extra hoops.

I confess a lot of my own misgivings have to do with the whole "Slippery Slope" thing. Once it starts, where does it end? And who elected these people to be arbiters of Good Taste, anyway?

It's like with Peacock suddenly and arbitrarily censoring a few things on the WWE Network now that they own it. At first, a lot of people said "Well, it was just those two things out of thousands of hours of content; it's not like they're gonna go through the entire catalog and start cutting stuff just because they feel like it!" Except then the next day they announced that that's EXACTLY what they're doing. And given the nature of pro wrestling in general, a huge chunk of stuff that's happened over the decades is now "problematic", and therefore susceptible to being put under the knife, all at the whims of some faceless executives. And people are pissed because part of what they're paying for with the Network is to have access to the "complete" video archives at the press of a button; that's what was advertised, that's what people are paying for. It doesn't hurt people like me - I kept all my DVDs and old VHS tapes, in huge part because I don't like the streaming model of "You don't own any of this sh*t and we can take it away from you at any time for any or no reason" - but a TON of people had already sold off their DVD collections for exactly that reason, "The Network has everything anyway", and now they're supremely annoyed because of the current situation. They're not thrilled about buying back stuff they already sold - and thanks to the current situation making those DVDs "in-demand" again, in most cases those people are gonna pay more to buy them back than whatever price they sold them for. Can you blame them for being pissed?

It's just stupid.

That would annoy me beyond reason. I can understand your frustration. That is a shame with the WWE stuff.

I actually started trying to get the original run of Little Nemo (1905-1925 I believe) and those books are crazy expensive ($900 for a complete collection book) for that very reason. The books have stopped production because of racist images and the price for the older books have sky rocketed. I guess I am lucky because I don't deal to much in some of the franchises affected. Guess scalpers are scalpers no matter the content.

[Sumac]

Well, most of the cancel culture cases that are happening today are mainly by the creators or the copy right holders of that said material.
It happens, because, they cave in to avoid possible backlash from Twitter lunatic mob.

The song of the south disagrees :tlol: but on a serious note, they have some horrible stuff that deserves to be censored. Especially with comics and animation. My personal favorite example is Impie from Little Nemo. Does that character deserve to be in comics in this day and age? Absolutely not but he still exists in its past.
It is a slippery slope: as soon as banning starts, it grows like a snowball rolling from the mountain and soon banning and censorship spreads to absolutely harmless things, just, because, companies not sure, when another retard on Twitter, stoned by hormones and marijuana will find something offensive in his pursue of "social justice".

All of these "cancel culture" complaining is about stuff that is still easily accessible. You just can't watch a 2021 cartoon movie with a Le Pew scene, get a brand new book of books we mostly didn't know were in the Seuess library and you have to get a history lesson for your Disney movie. I don't see those as bad things for what is supposed to better the world for kids.

Also, I don't think we could easily provide a section for context for most of these cases. You can't exactly start off a Dr Seuss book with a label telling kids that this scene on page 15 is actually racist and the book wouldn't make sense without it. The tv shows, they can add a little historical section but it can only go so far for 30 minute episodes from the 50s, 60s, and 70s.
Most of the stuff is completely or relatively harmless and can be seen as racism only by paranoid idiots, like this one of the examples from Seuss book about Chinese guy using sticks to eat. I don't know what kind of mental deficiency person need to see that as racist.

Also, I am opposed to banning art on principle.
Art should not only entertain or teach, but also it should provoke.

Of course, in the modern Western discourse any attempt to provoke something more than a mindless nodding, will be seen as "literal violence" by fragile snowflakes.

[Sabacooza]

This current trend of cancelling and censorship is nothing more than cultural vandalism and modern day witch hunts and should not be tolerated in any form.

If someone don't like something, simply don't buy it. If someone says something you don't like, either confront them, agree to disagree, or just move the f**k on.

[superstaff]

All censorship is wrong. The End.

Leo656, brother.

I wish I could high five you, man. :lol:

This current trend of cancelling and censorship is nothing more than cultural vandalism and modern day witch hunts and should not be tolerated in any form.

If someone don't like something, simply don't buy it. If someone says something you don't like, either confront them, agree to disagree, or just move the f**k on.


This is the correct course of action...in a sane world. But the world isn't really sane anymore, in my opinion.

[slashpieturtlemix]

This is how I am looking at it, are these items being removed from your life change it? Did you work on those Dr. Seuss books? Did you create the Jim Crow Crows?

If you cannot see the racism in a picture of a stereotype based caricature, then I have to admit that I wish I lived in your world of bliss :tlol:

Most of the creators for these products are dead and their families are rich now anyway.

[IMJ]

If you cannot see the racism in a picture of a stereotype based caricature, then I have to admit that I wish I lived in your world of bliss :tlol:

:lol:

You are taking the position that people are ignorant of these tropes.

But I don't think they are. I just think that there are a lot of smart people out there who can read and see these things and understand how they fit into the framework of history and society without going out and being racist or harming people.

But your position is very rigid. It's very simple and it's very black and white. It's a bland operating heuristic that you're building a pyre on. "Stereotype based caricature is bad!" - simply be default. And in situations where there is overt racism (for example, I'd say that old artwork where black people tend to be drawn like clowns with cartoon shapes is pretty damn racist, yeah) I think that if action needs to be taken because modern, educated people are too dumb to integrate an understanding of that nonsense into their framework, then there should be disclaimers that they can read and calm the maladjusted autism through. Because regular people see that crap and can assimilate that it was archaic nonsense right away. But we don't erase it.

The truth is that the it's the idiot population that we are appeasing with these cancellation actions. Somewhere here someone made a statement about how it's "the companies" that are agreeing to it. But that's because those feudal lords are afraid of a peasant revolt. All of this material will come back when this generation has screwed themselves over so much that they'll have no choice but to move on to real life to catch up. Those same people will read what I wrote here and lose their minds at their keyboards because all they'll see is that somehow it's me calling them peasants instead of the allusion or the truth of the situation. F'n peasants. ;)

[Leo656]

Leo656, brother.

I wish I could high five you, man. :lol:


I felt it. :lol:

[IMJ]

This current trend of cancelling and censorship is nothing more than cultural vandalism and modern day witch hunts and should not be tolerated in any form.

If someone don't like something, simply don't buy it. If someone says something you don't like, either confront them, agree to disagree, or just move the f**k on.

Beautiful. Been saying this same thing here as well. Props for recognizing the truth and understand the behavioral element involved. Too many people disregard it and in doing so, support or enable the negativity of cancel culture.

[Refractive Reflections]

What is your position on the the opinion pieces you've posted here?

lol :lol:, me?
I think it's ludicrous, it's such far-reaching conclusions to what they are claiming about TMNT. Though no matter how outlandish we may think it is, doesn't mean it will stop the momentum of the intention to "cancel" and appease to a highly vocal, overly-sensitive minority. Considering Eastman and Laird are both white males, the Captain Underpants kung fu situation, and if this cancel culture trajectory continues, in my opinion, it's a matter of time when Eastman, Laird, and the fandom will be bombarded by the SJW cancel culture mob.

For those that remember plastroncafe's time here in the Technodrome Forums and her petulant vociferous arguing over some SJW points with this TMNT franchise (she deemed herself as a "social justice cleric (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=1540415&highlight=cleric#post1540415)" with pride), in comparison, it would be a small sample to the huge storm arriving once the SJW mob smells blood.

A lot of the opinion pieces I'm posting are more of a "sign of the times". It certainly is saying something when Ebay is banning those 6 Dr. Seuss books from being resold, but a bomb-making terrorist book, The Anarchist Cookbook, (as seen in the below videoclip) and Adolf Hitler's Mein Kampf (https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=adolf+hitler+mein+kampf&_sacat=0) is just fine to sell and buy on Ebay.

Jqooe1SS8B8

[ssjup81]

Is it just a matter of time before TMNT (in any universe) is eventually restricted or have trigger warnings?Don't see why or how. As for the stuff you mentioned, like Disney putting up disclaimers to explain that the views represent the times or whatever, and can be viewed through a modern lens as culturally insensitive or sexist. Same with old shows and some other old movies. Look, it was once socially acceptable for a husband to beat his wife if she "got out of line". There are actual laws (still on the books) where it's legal for a husband to beat his wife. We all know that it shouldn't be acceptable under any circumstance for anyone to hit or beat their spouse (same with women who abuse their husbands, which is sadly under-reported), but it was a thing. Old shows that had no problem alluding to that, would seem out of place now.

For the turtles, where is it being culturally insensitive or better yet, how is it being culturally insensitive or how can it be construed in that way? Yoshi's character is Japanese, his rat is Japanese, and his rat teaches a bunch of turtles the art of ninjitsu which he learned (sorta) from his Japanese owner. Other iterations, Splinter is Yoshi and he's Japanese. The only thing wrong as far the series go is that Saki is named Saki and wouldn't work if actual Japanese person had written the story. No Japanese parent would name his/her son Saki.

The 2012 show was okay with the cultural things they used in it, from what I remember, so no issues there. There were liberties taken here and there, but it is an American show.But your position is very rigid. It's very simple and it's very black and white. It's a bland operating heuristic that you're building a pyre on. "Stereotype based caricature is bad!" - simply be default. And in situations where there is overt racism (for example, I'd say that old artwork where black people tend to be drawn like clowns with cartoon shapes is pretty damn racist, yeah) I think that if action needs to be taken because modern, educated people are too dumb to integrate an understanding of that nonsense into their framework, then there should be disclaimers that they can read and calm the maladjusted autism through. Because regular people see that crap and can assimilate that it was archaic nonsense right away. But we don't erase it.I have to agree with this. Yeah, there are some racist things from the past, but we should be smart enough to understand that's how it was at the time. We don't condone it, but it is what it is. If it was being done in a modern setting, then there should be outrage or whatever. I felt the same way about the confederate statues. My state is the old capital of the confederacy...it's a part of this state's history. I don't think that they should be "canceled", but if taking them down, they should just put them into a museum. It's history and it shouldn't be erased, good and bad.

[slashpieturtlemix]

Apparently you can get a copy of "And to think I saw it on mulberry street" by Dr Seuss for $139.97 on Amazon I anyone is interested.

[Sumac]

From what I understood, TMNT has a relatively big fandom of furries in it. Since there is an overlap, between furry and other gender degenerates it might be not so easy to cancel TMNT. But its like taking acid to quell poisoning.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

American culture was, and is still, created when people came from all over the world (especially from Western countries, but even many other places) to contribute, and people and cultures from all over the world were mixed. That's what made it so great, and that's why I can't stand Donald Trump. (I understand no country can have unlimited immigration, but not all immigrants are criminals or illegal, and that is an issue of economy and politics more than contributions to culture).

tvdoKvHYxcA

The Ninja Turtles:

Practice Japanese martial arts

Are named after European Renaissance artists

Like pizza, which at least in its modern form, eveovled in Italy

Befriend April O'Neil, who is of some Irish-American origin (and we all know all Americans are of immigrant origin, originally even the Native Americans who came via the Bering's Strait land bridge many thousands of years ago)

Live in the multitultural-melting pot of New York City

Aren't bound to be citizens of any country, and travel around Earth

Are exposed to people fearing the different (a symbol of racism and xenophobia)

Watch television shows from other planets than Earth (Planet of the Turtles)





Something to think of be for calling for cancellation.

[IMJ]

American culture was, and is still, created when people came from all over the world (especially from Western countries, but even many other places) to contribute, and people and cultures from all over the world were mixed. That's what made it so great. (I understand no country can have unlimited immigration, but that's an issue of politics more than culture)

tvdoKvHYxcA

The Ninja Turtles:

Practice Japanese martial arts

Are named after European Renaissance artists

Like pizza, which at least in its modern form, eveovled in Italy

Befriend April O'Neil, who is of some Irish-American origin (and we all know all Americans are of immigrant origin, originally even the Native Americans who came via the Bering's Strait land bridge many thousands of years ago)

Live in the multitultural-melting pot of New York City

Aren't bound to be citizens of any country

Watch television shows from other planets than Earth (Planet of the Turtles)

Are exposed to people fearing the different (a symbol of racism and xenophobia)




Something to think of be for calling for cancellation.

You can't use logic here suddenly after years of agreeing with these small societal trends and giving them power, and then expect your logic to be heard.

Melting pot situations like you've described in your post are no longer representations or archetypes, but rather they are now cultural appropriations - at least according to the liberal mob.

And here we are in this thread potentially living the future of the franchise that we all enjoy but that many of you here didn't have a problem with cancel culture until it came for something that you loved. So far it's all just conversation related to this I.P. but where are all of the liberal apologists that haunt other threads where they can hide behind plausible deniability and virtue signaling arguments? Where are they going to be with their past opinions when the liberal mob witch-hunt comes for their hobby?

[slashpieturtlemix]

On the plus side, since we are discussing them canceling tmnt for having a character of asian descent teaching martial arts to animal / human hybrids, then I am assuming other shows will get canceled for having asian characters too. Good old Captain Planet and Magic School Bus will clearly be the next targets :tlol:

[PizzaPower1985]

This current trend of cancelling and censorship is nothing more than cultural vandalism and modern day witch hunts and should not be tolerated in any form.

If someone don't like something, simply don't buy it. If someone says something you don't like, either confront them, agree to disagree, or just move the f**k on.

That last part is good advice. As a leftist, I get weary of cultural cancelling... IF we choose to cancel things we cannot learn from the disgustingly vile mistakes. The problem is the line has to be drawn somewhere.

I think we can "forgive but not forget" Mark Twain for his racism in Huck Finn and the blatant sexism and misogyny of Captain Ahab in Melville's story. It was the times, fashionable and accepted.

Seuss? Raymond Chandler too??? A host of other writers/creators? Can that be argued that it was "the times" as well? MAYBE? But our society should not TO THIS DAY hold these men up on pedestals. I love some of those stories because I was raised on them. Should they be cancelled? NO! They should be held up and their racism and sexism should be taught to young kids as EVIL. It should not be hidden away. It should be exposed. Kids today, as we were when I was a kid... should be exposed to that evil and taught to fight it!

t's not that hard to endeavor to be decent to women or smile at and be friendly/helpful to people who are not of your race or class.

Point being... some things need cancelled but those are cultural things... not art/entertainment/literature/film... if you cancel it, it's a disservice to society!

[PizzaPower1985]

From what I understood, TMNT has a relatively big fandom of furries in it. Since there is an overlap, between furry and other gender degenerates it might be not so easy to cancel TMNT. But its like taking acid to quell poisoning.

Who are you calling degenerates exactly? Furryism is not a gender, last time I checked... it's a lifestyle. And... What kind of gender deserved to be called degenerate? Are you always this cruel or do you only act this way on internet forums?

[PizzaPower1985]

They're doing it again...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/scholastic-pulls-dav-pilkey-adventures-of-ook-gluk-captain-underpants-180507215.html?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation

[Sumac]

I think we can "forgive but not forget" Mark Twain for his racism in Huck Finn and the blatant sexism and misogyny of Captain Ahab in Melville's story. It was the times, fashionable and accepted.

Seuss? Raymond Chandler too??? A host of other writers/creators? Can that be argued that it was "the times" as well? MAYBE? But our society should not TO THIS DAY hold these men up on pedestals. I love some of those stories because I was raised on them. Should they be cancelled? NO! They should be held up and their racism and sexism should be taught to young kids as EVIL. It should not be hidden away. It should be exposed. Kids today, as we were when I was a kid... should be exposed to that evil and taught to fight it!
You sound like a zealot book-burner.
No different than religious nutjobs, who want to destroy artifacts of the past, because, they don't fit in their narrative and, in their warped worldview can "corrupt people".

Who are you calling degenerates exactly? Furryism is not a gender, last time I checked... it's a lifestyle. And... What kind of gender deserved to be called degenerate? Are you always this cruel or do you only act this way on internet forums?
"Furryism" is a lifestyle of deranged people, which have association with a lot of unsavory stuff, including zoophilia and pedophilia.

I am not interested in arguments, like "but its not all of them", because, dressing as giant ****ing ugly cartoon animal is not normal on its own in the first place.

As for "gender speculs" - they also crazy or pretentious liars, who are trying to use made up gender identities to hide the fact, that they are ugly, boring, stupid and nothing special.

Together with furries, they are indeed "degenerates" who destroy society from the inside, creating constant conflicts to pander to their tiny worthless egos.

Its not cruelty to call liars and losers, liars and losers. We ended up in this situation exactly, because, a lot of people considered this **** normal and that instead curing those people we need to be softer to them.

Those cretins never dealt with mentally ill abusers, otherwise, they'd know - you never pander to abusers or / and mentally ill. NEVER. Pandering just reaffirms degenerates that they can achieve everything by emotional manipulation, suicide baiting and constant scandals and abuse.

And instead of fixing their worthless useless dumb lives and achieving something, they are reaffirmed that they can just cry on the Twitter (and sometimes in real world) about their totally "not made up gender identity" or "me too" and get clout, money and power, when in reality they are the least oppressed people in the world.

[Jester]

They're doing it again...

https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/scholastic-pulls-dav-pilkey-adventures-of-ook-gluk-captain-underpants-180507215.html?utm_source=spotim&utm_medium=spotim_recirculation

We have a thread (http://forums.thetechnodrome.com/showthread.php?p=1886994) about it even...

[IMJ]

As a leftist,

It's not that hard to endeavor to be decent to women or smile at and be friendly/helpful to people who are not of your race or class.

Point being... some things need cancelled but those are cultural things... not art/entertainment/literature/film... if you cancel it, it's a disservice to society!

Dude. "leftists" are the greatest haters on the Earth. Their entire philosophy is rooted in hate behind a message of equality. It's a lie man.

I would give some consideration to the fact that maybe you aren't a leftist, but for whatever.... uninformed reasons.... chose to believe that's where you fall. If what you said above was that simple then you'd actually be centered. Leftists don't want equality man. Those words are merely their propaganda while they tear down the country. It's like the guy who walks up to you and asks if you are okay while he puts a knife in you ,and as you lay down he keeps asking if you are okay, but he gutted you.

And the same thought processes that maybe make you think you fall on the left will galvanize you to argue you about it. And so I'm not saying that what you posted is wrong, but I am saying that the associations you've made about the left are wrong and that you don't know the truth of the spectrum and you drank the kool-aid and believed it. It's not the left that wants equality buddy. If it was they'd simply be living it.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Well, during the 80’s, TMNT almost got “cancelled” by the UK because of Michelangelo’s nunchucks, which for some reason were considered more dangerous than the other turtles’ weapons, so the creators of the cartoon made the (stupid) decision of replacing them with a grappling hook.

[Galactus]

Well, during the 80’s, TMNT almost got “cancelled” by the UK because of Michelangelo’s nunchucks, which for some reason were considered more dangerous than the other turtles’ weapons, so the creators of the cartoon made the (stupid) decision of replacing them with a grappling hook.

The removal of Michelangelo's nunchucks was because they were a popular weapon for real life gangs in Europe at the time. Airings of Seasons 1 - 4 contained cuts whenever the character using his nunchuks. This isn't being 'cancelled' though. Censored yes but not cancelled in the cultural terms you mean.

The replacement of Michelangelo's nunchuks with a grappling hook was when the Us version of the show moved to CBS. To this day no one knows why they did this but it likely it had little to do with the UK.

[Coola Yagami]

The only 'cancelling' was when that American Pie guy got cancelled and no longer voiced Leo in the 2012 show. But then again, why would a kids channel like Nick even hire him?

[Sumac]

The removal of Michelangelo's nunchucks was because they were a popular weapon for real life gangs in Europe at the time.

Proves? Links?
First time I am hearing about it throughout the years.
Not to mention it doesn't make much sense practically.

[Coola Yagami]

Proves? Links?
First time I am hearing about it throughout the years.
Not to mention it doesn't make much sense practically.

I mean that was the general concensus back then. Gangs used nunchucks, those countries didn't want kids to tie sticks together and go wild. Pretty much common knowledge by now.

[Sumac]

I mean that was the general concensus back then. Gangs used nunchucks, those countries didn't want kids to tie sticks together and go wild. Pretty much common knowledge by now.
I've heard only about kids making their own nunchuks, nothing about gangs using them.

[CyberCubed]

We're getting there soon enough.

[Warhorse]

Proves? Links?
First time I am hearing about it throughout the years.
Not to mention it doesn't make much sense practically.

Heck, the word "ninja" is taboo in many European countries so that when the TMNT were being marketed over there, they would be called the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. :roll:

[Warhorse]

We're getting there soon enough.

I'm just waiting for when they turn one of the Turtles into a girl.

[TurtleManiac]

If Disney gets their hands on TMNT, it’s a done deal.

[frank_one]

Heck, the word "ninja" is taboo in many European countries so that when the TMNT were being marketed over there, they would be called the Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles. :roll:The word "ninja" WAS a taboo and that was only in UK.