Black Panther: Wakanda Forever

[ZariusTwo]

Production has been underway on the follow-up to one of the world’s highest-grossing films for some time now, with Ryan Coogler set to unveil the sequel in 2022.

Marvel Studios has now revealed that it will be called Black Panther: Wakanda Forever.

It is currently unknown what form the film will take – lead star Chadwick Boseman died of cancer in August 2020.

However, it’s been confirmed that Boseman’s role as the heroic King T’Challa will not be recast.

https://www.independent.co.uk/extras/indybest/fashion-beauty/best-brands-turning-recycled-plastic-bottles-clothes-a8774446.html

[AquaParade]

I'm really looking forward to it. I expect a jump in quality from the first Black Panther film.

Bless Chadwick Boseman. Story wise, I think this shakeup will be good for the franchise. I really don't know what to expect.

[CyberCubed]

The movie is tainted by no real Black Panther. It's a real shame what happened to him.

[IMJ]

I'm super curious as to what they are going to do with this one. Boseman was so good in the roll - he played a likable guy, a regal king, and a tactical badass.

I almost feel like maybe they should let it rest and give it a reboot in it's own "alternate Universe" or something rather than shoehorning strange events or material in to fit the continuity.

[neatoman]

The notion of the Black Panther as a mantle rather than a character is built into the lore, in the comics T'Challa is at at least the ninteenth Black Panther, the movie also makes it explicitly clear he's just one in a long line of Black Panthers. Replacing him should not be that hard in theory.

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-YkhruCP-2Fg/VmAY1HkkK3I/AAAAAAAACZ4/PsJw3jqWaws/s1600-Ic42/RCO008.jpg

[Andrew NDB]

The notion of the Black Panther as a mantle rather than a character is built into the lore

Yeah yeah. But I'd imagine most/all of the comic book ones lasted more than the equivalent of ONE film.

[IMJ]

Yeah yeah. But I'd imagine most/all of the comic book ones lasted more than the equivalent of ONE film.

That and even general audiences nowadays know that the Black Panther moves across time with different panthers.

So I think when someone says "I wonder how they will proceed" it's more about how they will address it, in-story - the absence of T'Challa, etc.

[Coola Yagami]

That and even general audiences nowadays know that the Black Panther moves across time with different panthers.

So I think when someone says "I wonder how they will proceed" it's more about how they will address it, in-story - the absence of T'Challa, etc.

Not to mention the in-story irony of him dying so soon after he just got un-snapped.

[neatoman]

https://thedirect.com/article/marvel-black-panther-2-plot-martin-freeman

Seems like Martin Freeman ain't too confident about Ryan Coogler's ideas.

[Sumac]

Que him being canceled for daring to doubt BLACK OPPRESSED MAN!

[AquaParade]

I'd love to see M'baku as the next Black Panther. Not really feeling Shuri as a character or actor, to be honest. Nothing against her as a person, but I don't buy her as The Black Panther that I want to see.

[ZariusTwo]

Sub-Mariner to debut in this, played by Tenoch Huerta

https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/report-black-panther-wakanda-forever-to-feature-tenoch-huerta-as-namor/

[Coola Yagami]

Sub-Mariner to debut in this, played by Tenoch Huerta

https://www.murphysmultiverse.com/report-black-panther-wakanda-forever-to-feature-tenoch-huerta-as-namor/

I wonder if he'll be the villian. Sub-Mariner is such an asshole, 90% he's more the villain than anything else. He's like Aquaman but in permanent asshole mode.

[Andrew NDB]

Not to mention the in-story irony of him dying so soon after he just got un-snapped.

Also a good point. What a legacy! He was Black Panther for like 5 minutes. And during that, hm... he failed (or rather, refused) to avenge his father, lost the throne to someone who almost destroyed the world, failed to protect Vision's stone from Thanos, then for an encore vanished from then until the last 5% of Endgame.

[Zulithe]

I'm wondering if they will have his character be in some kind of limbo the entire film, and not actually dead, that way they still have an 'in' to bring him back in a future movie. Maybe they weren't ready to do that just yet, but want to keep the option there.

I like seeing how creative they can get to continue this story without the central and most important character... but I really don't think they can salvage this the way they think they can without recasting the part.

[IMJ]

but I really don't think they can salvage this the way they think they can without recasting the part.

Yeah. This is an example by natural cause as to how Marvel is too tied to their continuity at this point. Yet the continuity is what has made this whole thing a series of "event films" and let's face it - the continuity has given some of the Marvel flicks a bigger box office than they otherwise would've had without it.

I wonder if the multiverse concept is going to be their way out for certain recasts and other returns.

[sdp]

i've said it many times, superhero movies should've taken the classic james bond route of casting a different actor, continuing the "continuity" not worrying about slight differences in tone or if certain smaller things don't fit 100%. new actor and it's a soft reboot but still the things that they already made movies of " happened".

[IMJ]

Kevin Feige used to say that Iron Man was like James Bond - that the character would go on.

But Kevin Feige says a lot of things in the moment and passes them off as if they are by design. During the Iron Man special features years ago who talked about the scene where Iron Man boosts a punch at the Iron Monger on the rooftop. Feige described it as a "Marvel Moment" and explained that every Marvel film will have a great visual moment like that. It couldn't have been more obvious that people thought that was a cool thing in the first movie and Feige came in and branded it after the fact as a "special thing" that was done by edict of their brand.

We all love Kevin Feige, but if you follow him long enough you begin to realize that he's often full of $#!( and chases the zeitgeist - exactly how he went overboard on Captain Marvel being "stronger than an infinity stone" and countless other examples. The point? People are drugged by Marvel "events" and overlook a lot of the nonsense that could lead to the bottom dropping out of the entire thing.

[Coola Yagami]

i've said it many times, superhero movies should've taken the classic james bond route of casting a different actor, continuing the "continuity" not worrying about slight differences in tone or if certain smaller things don't fit 100%. new actor and it's a soft reboot but still the things that they already made movies of " happened".

Naw, for some reason these movie fans were eager for characters to die and stay dead. It never made sense to me, these are characters that have faced countless villains countless times, why would they want them to be killed off unless it was comic book related thing. Then they cheered when Superman died in BVS as if he was really gonna stay dead and as if nobody knew he was gonna come back in JL. It was stupid, but that's what the fans wanted after all.

So going the route of Iron Man and whoever just living on via numerous actors would have pissed off the fanbase that insisted on character deaths and 'lasting consequences'.

IMO all the MCU movies have consequences that lead one into the other, especially the entire premise of Civil War, but people don't care about collateral damage, they want character deaths. They pointed more to Superman killing Zod and Superman himself dying rather than the destruction of Metropolis which was what BVS centered itself on.

[Andrew NDB]

The thing is, MCU fans should already be braced for such a thing. All the way since getting like back to back to back new Hulk actors, right at the start of the MCU. Or Rhodey? Now suddenly it's a problem?

I mean, by all means let's definitely get all the mileage we can out of each actor that we can until they, A) Age out of the part (and, hey, Ruffalo himself is looking about 80 years old lately), B) Don't want to play the part anymore, or, C) Die. And then it's time to recast. I'll always say this, but the idea of throwing the character into the casket with the actor playing them because the actor dies is INSANE to me, particularly in something like the MCU. It doesn't do anything to preserve T'Challa's "legacy"... it stunts it and makes it something much smaller than it should have been (also, whether or not there have been a bunch of Black Panthers in the past 60 years of the comics or whatever... is showing T'Challa is so easily and quickly replaceable really helping their overall goal here?). And yeah, again, no one is even asking, "Is this what Chadwick really would have wanted?" Like, they don't even want to talk about it. There's just this general vibe of "We know what's best for Chadwick and T'Challa's legacy" despite, you know, everything.

Maybe their solution will be that there is a bunch of Black Panthers at once (I just can't imagine them positioning Shuri as simply his replacement... nobody is going to go for that except out of a sense of guilt). Meh.

[CyberCubed]

Marvel movies are relatively new to the modern audience. But like we've had so many different actors play Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, and Peter Parker...we'll eventually see all the Avengers recasted and people will accept it over time as well.

[sdp]

Marvel movies are relatively new to the modern audience. But like we've had so many different actors play Bruce Wayne, Clark Kent, and Peter Parker...we'll eventually see all the Avengers recasted and people will accept it over time as well.

The MCU has been going on since 2008 that's over a decade, remember how ancient of a movie Return of the Jedi seemed to us as kids? well ROTJ was only 13 years old same as the first iron man movie right now in 1996 when the special editions came out.

Also by the time Iron Man came out Marvel wasn't some new game in town, we had been bombarded by Marvel movies since the year 2000, we averaged 2 marvel movies per year basically, by the time Iron Man came out the super hero genre had already been bloated for a while, the only reason it succeeded was because it tried something new with continuity.

The thing is, MCU fans should already be braced for such a thing. All the way since getting like back to back to back new Hulk actors, right at the start of the MCU. Or Rhodey? Now suddenly it's a problem?

Well even the MCU seems to pretend The incredible hulk didn't really happen, so it's not surprising. Rhodey also happened in the third MCU movie so people were forgiving and it was mostly nerds who noticed, I bet many didn't realize he was the same person from the first Iron Man movie and overall less people invested in the characters. The bigger the MCU got the more you get these crazies who want characters retired.

It was the same crap when Heath Ledger died, I remember there were petitions for the character The Joker to never be played by anyone else ever again in live action. Had TDK not been an ending to the nolan trilogy and they had left it open for more movies I sure as hell would've wanted ar ecasted joker to fight batman in that same continuity.

Nolan did it right in his first two movies by not really killing the villains. Scarecrow escapes and shows up in the sequels, Joker doesn't fall and die but is caught by Batman. Sure Ra's "dies" but we don't actually see him die so you could argue he survived somic book style. They did mess up with Two Face, they should've kept him alive, no reason in killing him, would've given us a good secondary villain that was already set up for the third movie.

I think after ledgers death nolan just didn't care to continue it to leave it open ended so that's why he decided to give everyone a definite end.

[Andrew NDB]

Well even the MCU seems to pretend The incredible hulk didn't really happen, so it's not surprising.

Abomination is literally appearing in She-Hulk, reprised by Tim Roth (and I guess he very nearly appeared in Avengers 2). With Ruffalo as Hulk in tow. And there's been General Ross since Civil War. And the events of Incredible Hulk seen on-screen in Iron Man 2. Also in newspapers on the walls of the New York Bulletin in Daredevil.

It was the same crap when Heath Ledger died, I remember there were petitions for the character The Joker to never be played by anyone else ever again in live action. Had TDK not been an ending to the nolan trilogy and they had left it open for more movies I sure as hell would've wanted ar ecasted joker to fight batman in that same continuity.

Nolan did it right in his first two movies by not really killing the villains. Scarecrow escapes and shows up in the sequels, Joker doesn't fall and die but is caught by Batman. Sure Ra's "dies" but we don't actually see him die so you could argue he survived somic book style. They did mess up with Two Face, they should've kept him alive, no reason in killing him, would've given us a good secondary villain that was already set up for the third movie.

I think after ledgers death nolan just didn't care to continue it to leave it open ended so that's why he decided to give everyone a definite end.

And yet, recast Katie Holmes and nobody fusses over anything.

I dunno. If the intention was for Nolan to grow the Batman corner of some kind of nascent DC cinematic universe... then of course they should have recasted Ledger and that should've been that. But just as some 3 movie and done thing? It's unfortunate, but whatever. Joker could have added a lot to TDKR, though.

[ZariusTwo]

Official plot details reveal Wakanda and Atlantis will clash in the movie over Vibranium, and their interconnected histories will be explored

https://www.cbr.com/black-panther-2-plot-details-wakanda-atlantis-secret-history/?utm_content=buffer532d7&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_source=CBR-TW&utm_campaign=CBR-TW

[Andrew NDB]

Well, that means Namor for sure. And I'm guessing they're not going to cast an elfish-looking white dude. Which is fine. I don't really know a lot of Namor fans anyway.

[Sumac]

I dunno. If the intention was for Nolan to grow the Batman corner of some kind of nascent DC cinematic universe... then of course they should have recasted Ledger and that should've been that. But just as some 3 movie and done thing? It's unfortunate, but whatever. Joker could have added a lot to TDKR, though.
AFAIK, Nolan specifically didn't want to make anything resembling cinematic universe.

[Andrew NDB]

AFAIK, Nolan specifically didn't want to make anything resembling cinematic universe.

Yeah... but given different reports, some tell a story of him being pressured into doing so and basically being like, "No, F off" or at least convincing them to stop pressuring him so. Some say that it very nearly was that. Though even going into "Man of Steel"... if they'd wanted to they could have even then made Nolan's movies part of it. I tend to think that Nolan knew they might consider this... so he intentionally "salted the earth" a bit with TDKR to make sure they wouldn't (basically everybody knows he was Batman, retired, Wayne Manor is an orphanage above the batcave, etc.).

[Autbot_Benz]

https://www.comicbookmovie.com/black_panther/black_panther_2/black-panther-wakanda-forever-casts-i-may-destroy-you-star-michaela-coel-a186644


Marvel's Black Panther: Wakanda Forever has cast British actress/writer/producer/director/singer Michaela Coel in a mysterious role.

Variety reports that the I May Destroy You star has signed on for Ryan Coogler's sequel, but don't provide any details whatsoever on who she might be playing. As you might expect, there's already a lot of speculation that Coel could take on the role of X-Men's Ororo Monroe, aka Storm, who has been rumored to make her MCU debut in the movie. There are obviously other possibilities, though, as the movie has also been rumored to feature a female villain.

[Jester]

Something dawned on me this afternoon as my wife and I were discussing the MCU...I think it started with a way to bring in Dr. Doom...but eventually we hit on T'challa.
It started with wondering if Sakovia still existed post snap, and if T'challa's plan to open Wakanda was reversed since he was snapped....and then realizing that he was gone for the whole 5 years, presumed dead anyway just like all the snapped, so who is the monarch of Wakanda? Would T'challa fight to get the mantel back after being gone for 5 years? Or would he let the person who now sits on Wakanda's thrown stay, and leave Wakanda and see the world, where he meets an unfortunate end?

[Autbot_Benz]

Ironheart will make her debut appearance in Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, Marvel boss Kevin Feige has confirmed.

Speaking to Comicbook.com, Feige said: “We’re shooting Black Panther: Wakanda Forever, right now, and the character of Riri Williams, you will meet in Black Panther 2 first.


https://www.nme.com/news/film/marvels-ironheart-mcu-debut-black-panther-2-3025016

[Autbot_Benz]

bumped to

11/11/22

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/marvel-doctor-strange-2-thor-4-release-date-delay/

[Andrew NDB]

Temporarily shuts down production:

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/black-panther-wakanda-forever-temporarily-shuts-down-production-letitia-wrights-injury/?fbclid=IwAR1UAVhVfazmYQfoCqCCL5hs4qJOYNSPgr1nxGZW 3-I5GdRMARpS7zSXrRE

[ZariusTwo]

Reportedly the ending to the movie has been changed, due to ongoing drama with Letitia Wright (major spoiler)

https://twitter.com/MyTimeToShineH/status/1469747336058445831?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1469747336058445831%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fofficialfan.proboards.com%2F thread%2F589612%2Fphase-disney-shows-purpose-thread%3Fpage%3D95

[Andrew NDB]

Reportedly the ending to the movie has been changed, due to ongoing drama with Letitia Wright (major spoiler)

https://twitter.com/MyTimeToShineH/status/1469747336058445831?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1469747336058445831%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fofficialfan.proboards.com%2F thread%2F589612%2Fphase-disney-shows-purpose-thread%3Fpage%3D95

Dumb. Dumb that they were going to give it to her, dumb that they're giving it to him, and dumb that they took it away from her for vaccine blowback. Assuming any of this is true.

They're going to market this as a big "farewell to Chadwick" wake to get everyone teary eyed to get those Heath Ledger/Paul Walker dollars while throwing everything he worked so hard to build into the toilet. Or the grave. Or both.

[Sumac]

I don't want to believe its all, because, of vaccine drama, but with Holyweird today, who knows?

[Coola Yagami]

I don't want to believe its all, because, of vaccine drama, but with Holyweird today, who knows?

You can bet the farm it's vaccine drama. If she was a white guy they would have plastered that all the over news and look down on um.. him as the main cause of all this trouble. But she's a black woman so.....

These are problems caused by following the retarded mandates and also by being so glued to the narrative they don't know what to do when one of their fellow woke leftists decides to go off script.

[TigerClaw]

Reportedly the ending to the movie has been changed, due to ongoing drama with Letitia Wright (major spoiler)

https://twitter.com/MyTimeToShineH/status/1469747336058445831?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1469747336058445831%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fofficialfan.proboards.com%2F thread%2F589612%2Fphase-disney-shows-purpose-thread%3Fpage%3D95
Are you gonna believe some random tweet as the source? I did a google search and non of the big news sites are reporting this, Or anything about her being fired, So this is all fake.

[ProphetofGanja]

I think it's so unfair how Letitia is being bullied by Disney with their vaccine mandate

[Andrew NDB]

They fired Gina Carano for sharing a meme. What do you expect?

[Coola Yagami]

They fired Gina Carano for sharing a meme. What do you expect?

Fired AND vilified to the point where bringing up her name causes arguments depending on your politics.

That's the part that gets me. Rather than everyone seeing how stupid and unfair Disney was for doing that, there's this small divide among the people that agree it's stupid and those that actually side with Disney and think she is a terrible person.

I've learned to shut my mouth about her whenever people bad mouth her and act like she deserved to get fired. The woke crazies jump all over you if you bring up 'but Gina did nothing wrong though?'.

I need a new group of friends, it sucks that longtime friends I had are the same people I can't openly discuss Gina, vaccines or Rittenhouse without causing a shitshow or losing some of em. Like everything is good until these 'hot button issues' come up and I'm getting sick and tired of having to either have no opinion or feeling forced to agree with the majority. I have a voice too and I'm sick of it always being the wrong one. I guess it was easier in the old days when everyone just hated Trump.

[ZariusTwo]

Are you gonna believe some random tweet as the source?

The guy who tweeted this has pinpoint accuracy on leaks, he spoiled all of No Way Home over the last few months

Also, the tweet never said she was fired you half-wit, just had her role diminished, do you even f*cking read anything?

[TigerClaw]

The guy who tweeted this has pinpoint accuracy on leaks, he spoiled all of No Way Home over the last few months

Also, the tweet never said she was fired you half-wit, just had her role diminished, do you even f*cking read anything?
There were places saying she was fired, and I don't believe those either.

[Andrew NDB]

Chadwick's brother says Chadwick would have wanted to see T'Challa recasted:

https://www.cbr.com/chadwick-boseman-brother-marvel-recast-black-panther/?utm_source=CBR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=CBR-FB-P&fbclid=IwAR35wA7LdGSej23Ng4uvyByuNe14auqcSJfam5Atl 6P8hlLI0ZX7-GZAH60

Of course he would've.

[IMJ]

Chadwick's brother says Chadwick would have wanted to see T'Challa recasted:

https://www.cbr.com/chadwick-boseman-brother-marvel-recast-black-panther/?utm_source=CBR-FB-P&utm_medium=Social-Distribution&utm_campaign=CBR-FB-P&fbclid=IwAR35wA7LdGSej23Ng4uvyByuNe14auqcSJfam5Atl 6P8hlLI0ZX7-GZAH60

Of course he would've.

Honest opinion about the recasting issue? Disney was terrified to recast Boseman amidst the last few years of liberal extremist bull $#!( and feared being called "racists" or "people who don't care about the death of a black man" or some other such nonsense.

And so to avoid that, they campaigned on not recasting Boseman until the dust settled, but then got hemmed up in needing to get another Panther flick out there to save face as well.

My personal opinion on it? Boseman was impressive as hell on screen, regal and a lot of fun to watch. But - and this is coming from an O.G. Iron Man collector - but just as RD JR could be recast, so can Boseman and they should just do it and move on just like with Howard/Cheadle. The fact is that the MCU continuity has been amazing but it's already causing problems. We will be 15 years into Iron Man on screen soon and they could've James Bonded that $#!( already - and while we have some incredible Iron Man moments on screen now, we also have yet to have the definitive Iron Man movie. I don't want Black Panther getting caught up the same way because quite frankly that character is awesome and his first movie sucked some huge nuts.

[Sumac]

I don't think their fear of recasting was based on "wokeness" - no matter how you turn it an original actor is dead. Even dumbest of the dumb SJWs can understand it.
So you either shut down movie or recast.

[IMJ]

I don't think their fear of recasting was based on "wokeness" - no matter how you turn it an original actor is dead. Even dumbest of the dumb SJWs can understand it.
So you either shut down movie or recast.

Yeah but the SJW's use any event to gaslight and feel good by admonishing others. The political climate means that SJW-catering modern Disney had to defer to the cult.

They've done it countless times. They deferred to China and censored their own intellectual property because of it. You better believe that they got on board with calling Chadwick Boseman a "King" (Chadwick a king, not Black Panther mind you), and then saying they'd never recast him.

They were appeasing and manipulating their peasants. 100%

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah but the SJW's use any event to gaslight and feel good by admonishing others. The political climate means that SJW-catering modern Disney had to defer to the cult.

They've done it countless times. They deferred to China and censored their own intellectual property because of it. You better believe that they got on board with calling Chadwick Boseman a "King" (Chadwick a king, not Black Panther mind you), and then saying they'd never recast him.

They were appeasing and manipulating their peasants. 100%

That is true. The Twitter Woke Cult (and China) pretty much has Disney and any major company that doesn't want to be cancelled by the balls. And they've proven they're not avoid to use a vice grip.

[Autbot_Benz]

First look at Namor & Attuma

https://i.imgur.com/TXuy594.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/ojYx0qc.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/HTs4EAy.jpg

[Coola Yagami]

They couldn't slick up Namor's hair to match the comics better? And where are the Spock eyebrows? Lookswise, Namor was always pretty much Spock if he had gains and could live underwater.

And of course Namor isn't white. Of course.

The other picture doesn't impress me until we see an actual actor in the costume. I mean look at how they ****ed up Gorr the Godslayer.

[Galactus]

Yeah but the SJW's use any event to gaslight and feel good by admonishing others. The political climate means that SJW-catering modern Disney had to defer to the cult.

They've done it countless times. They deferred to China and censored their own intellectual property because of it. You better believe that they got on board with calling Chadwick Boseman a "King" (Chadwick a king, not Black Panther mind you), and then saying they'd never recast him.

They were appeasing and manipulating their peasants. 100%


Considering the 'twitter woke mob' mostly sided on the issue that they should recast T'challa and give another black actor the same opportunity to became the same kind of symbol that Boseman that was't the case. Of course that view didn't really calcify straight away and it seems Marvel Studios made their call really quickly. Everyone understands that this was a sensitive decision that whatever they did was going to upset some people. Still what you are saying is a straight up lie you made up yourself or something you've heard second hand and perpetuating someone else's lie for your dumb culture wars agenda.

First look at Namor & Attuma

https://i.imgur.com/ojYx0qc.jpg

Kinda surprised they went with the green speedo look instead of the black guit with the gold wings or even the current look he has in the comics.

[AquaParade]

Looks awesome. Idk that actor but I hope they're good. Not bothered that they aren't white or have cool eyebrows personally.

[Coola Yagami]

Looks awesome. Idk that actor but I hope they're good. Not bothered that they aren't white or have cool eyebrows personally.

Then why even cast the character if they're not gonna commit and make him look like the character?

It would be like some new actor taking up the role of Spock with normal ears and without the funky eyebrows.

[Andrew NDB]

Eh. If I was a Namor reader for decades I'd probably say different. But something like Namor, you know. I've read enough Wizard and Previews and such to know his basic look. So if you want to cast a Hispanic (I'm assuming that's a Hispanic guy? he looks like the actor from Terminator Woke Fate) that's fine, and I'm cool with it... but jeeze... at least have him shave his face?

[AquaParade]

Then why even cast the character if they're not gonna commit and make him look like the character?

It would be like some new actor taking up the role of Spock with normal ears and without the funky eyebrows.

It's more about capturing the essence of the character than being a slave to a design that was created and intended for a different medium.

I can see how the ears and eyebrows could be considered iconic elements to Namor, but they aren't deal-breakers to me, by any means. I want to see the attitude and the demeanor of the character captured. When I think of Namor, I think of arrogance, power, a regal attitude, a bit of sexiness. If the actor captures that and the outfit looks cool, then getting hung up on eyebrows and skin tone just seem like a giant waste of time, to me. Like, I just don't care.

Not saying no one else is allowed to care, but to me, it's like complaining about Snickers changing the wrapper on their candy bar. Can you still tell it's a Snickers bar? Is the new design okay? Most importantly, does it taste good? Okay, then.

This is an okay look, befitting of an Atlantean in the MCU. I'm not going to pretend I am in love with the design, but I don't share the same issues with it that you do.

The design for Attuma is the better one, imo.

[superstaff]

It's more about capturing the essence of the character than being a slave to a design that was created and intended for a different medium.

I can see how the ears and eyebrows could be considered iconic elements to Namor, but they aren't deal-breakers to me, by any means. I want to see the attitude and the demeanor of the character captured. When I think of Namor, I think of arrogance, power, a regal attitude, a bit of sexiness. If the actor captures that and the outfit looks cool, then getting hung up on eyebrows and skin tone just seem like a giant waste of time, to me. Like, I just don't care.

Not saying no one else is allowed to care, but to me, it's like complaining about Snickers changing the wrapper on their candy bar. Can you still tell it's a Snickers bar? Is the new design okay? Most importantly, does it taste good? Okay, then.


Yeah, this basically sums up how I feel about this topic. I don't need it to be 100% accurate to every single minutia of a character from the comics. Some stuff from comics also don't translate well to a movie or show either. I think that as long as the basic essence of the character is adapted well, it's fine. I remember when people screamed that Christian Bale (and tbh this was also said for most of the live action Batmans except, ironically, George Clooney, and Ben Affleck) looked 'too gay' to be Batman or that Chris Evans had brown hair and cried that he should be re-casted for Captain America...

[Coola Yagami]

Eh... there's interpretation and then there's 'I have no idea who this character is supposed to be until someone tells me'.

Like Andrew said, at the very least the ****er should have shaved.

It just feels there was more effort made in the older movies (even though Loki looked different he still got to wear the classic helmet a few times) but nowadays it's like 'who gives a ****, get whoever, dress em in whatever outfit you want, slap the name on it, since it's part of the MCU the normies will eat it up no matter what we do, we can call the nerds that actually read this **** out if they bitch'.

[superstaff]

Eh... there's interpretation and then there's 'I have no idea who this character is supposed to be until someone tells me'.

Like Andrew said, at the very least the ****er should have shaved.

It just feels there was more effort made in the older movies (even though Loki looked different he still got to wear the classic helmet a few times) but nowadays it's like 'who gives a ****, get whoever, dress em in whatever outfit you want, slap the name on it, since it's part of the MCU the normies will eat it up no matter what we do, we can call the nerds that actually read this **** out if they bitch'.

Yet the majority of fans loved Momoa's Aquaman even though he isn't accurate to the original incarnation (even the bearded Arthur).

lol, I think fans are very 'picky and choosy' about accuracy, at least when it comes to 'reinventing' characters they deem lame or whatever. :lol:

Again, I still remember the whining over Bale (and most other Batmans) and Evans, and how 'awful' they were classified by the majority of nerds online. Nowadays, Bale and Evans are mostly revered. I thought they both captured the essence of the characters from the get-go.

[AquaParade]

Eh... there's interpretation and then there's 'I have no idea who this character is supposed to be until someone tells me'.

Like Andrew said, at the very least the ****er should have shaved.

I'll admit that I'd also probably like the design more if he were to shave, but whatever.

There is an iconography to comics that is important to them, so I can understand why people get hung up on this stuff. I guess you either accept adaptation or you don't.

The reason I find adaptations so exciting is that we get to see something brought into reality through a different lens, or see how it might realistically fit into our world.
Not every comic adaption has to be that way, but to me that's the thrill of it.

Mostly, I feel that if I want something to ape a comic book so damn bad, then I might as well just go read the comic book instead.

Sometimes a cover song is at it's best, or at least more interesting, when the musicians go their own way with it. That's sort of how I feel about comic book films.

And to be fair, that's always sort of how comics themselves have been.

It just feels there was more effort made in the older movies (even though Loki looked different he still got to wear the classic helmet a few times) but nowadays it's like 'who gives a ****, get whoever, dress em in whatever outfit you want, slap the name on it, since it's part of the MCU the normies will eat it up no matter what we do, we can call the nerds that actually read this **** out if they bitch'.

This seems like two separate issues, to me. I don't think this looks low-effort at all, but I do think that MCU fans can be rabid, as well as willing to accept any dribble offered to them, as long as it's all connected.

So yeah, I think these designs actually look pretty good. I don't think all MCU designs are great, and I actually wouldn't mind a little more "Alex Ross" flavor to them, if you know what I mean, but these aren't the ones I'd choose to call out.

When it comes to low effort, I think the MCU's biggest issues are script and cgi quality. They're really starting to feel rushed.


lol, I think fans are very 'picky and choosy' about accuracy, at least when it comes to 'reinventing' characters they deem lame or whatever. :lol:
.

Yup. I mean, everyone gets their turn to bitch and moan about something not being like the comics. I'm sure I do it sometimes, but it does feel out of hand with much of the community. At times it's hard not to feel like people complain just to complain.

[superstaff]

Yup. I mean, everyone gets their turn to bitch and moan about something not being like the comics. I'm sure I do it sometimes, but it does feel out of hand with much of the community. At times it's hard not to feel like people complain just to complain.

Yeah, we all do it, of course.

I just think that some things can and sometimes should be changed from the comics. The comics aren't perfect, and there's a lot of bad writing in them (God, especially nowadays...). I don't mind movies or TV making changes to certain things...if they actually improve upon them. I think the Under the Red Hood and Watchmen movies improved on the source material in some ways, for instance.

Another thing is, I'll take an actor not looking like a 100% replication of their comics counterpart if the writing and acting behind the character is great. If they get an actor who looks like a spitting image of the character, but is then a terrible actor who portrays a really unlikable, poorly written version of that character then I'd prefer they'd just cast someone who doesn't look the role, but plays a character I can like and root for.

[CyberCubed]

So they're really going to kill Black Panther in the opening aren't they? It really does seem like a misfire now that they didn't recast him, especially since this is permanent for the next 10 years or so of movies.

I'm sure they could have cast someone who looks similar to Chadwick Boseman, a lot of black people look alike after all, it shouldn't be too hard to find a look-a-like.

[Andrew NDB]

So they're really going to kill Black Panther in the opening aren't they?

Something super insulting to Chadwick Boseman and T'Challa like that.

[CyberCubed]

It's weird and kinda dumb, since someone else will be in the suit anyway. When they pull off the mask to show his face (or at a funeral), and everyone is staring at him crying...what are they going to do? Put a digital CG face of Chadwick Boseman and paste a deepfake on a guy lying there?

[Coola Yagami]

i'm sure they could have cast someone who looks similar to chadwick boseman, a lot of black people look alike after all, it shouldn't be too hard to find a look-a-like.

dude......

[CyberCubed]

It's pretty obvious hiring a look-a-like to play Boseman could have been done. Obviously he wouldn't look 100% the same, but a lot of African people have similar skeletal features in their skulls/faces that goes back to their ancestors over generations since the days of homo habilis and homo erectus after we evolved from a common ancestor with the great ape.

Just have a guy with a similar haircut and you wouldn't notice much different. I mean it also happened in the Nolan Batman movies. Remember when Katie Holmes was replaced with a new actress in The Dark Knight Returns? She didn't look that different.

[ProphetofGanja]

So they're really going to kill Black Panther in the opening aren't they? It really does seem like a misfire now that they didn't recast him, especially since this is permanent for the next 10 years or so of movies.

I'm sure they could have cast someone who looks similar to Chadwick Boseman, a lot of black people look alike after all, it shouldn't be too hard to find a look-a-like.

You're so dumb, Cubed. Or you're the trollingest motherf#cker in the universe, whatever.

They couldn't slick up Namor's hair to match the comics better? And where are the Spock eyebrows? Lookswise, Namor was always pretty much Spock if he had gains and could live underwater.

And of course Namor isn't white. Of course.

The other picture doesn't impress me until we see an actual actor in the costume. I mean look at how they ****ed up Gorr the Godslayer.

Wasn't Namor always kinda Asian lookin? You might start to sound like CyberCubed soon :lol:

I'm more and more intrigued by this movie. It sucks that they had to pivot so hard to account for Boseman's death, but this phase of the MCU is interesting to me so far.

[Coola Yagami]

You're so dumb, Cubed. Or you're the trollingest motherf#cker in the universe, whatever.



Wasn't Namor always kinda Asian lookin? You might start to sound like CyberCubed soon :lol"



All those Vulcan Atlanteans look alike to me.

[Autbot_Benz]

RlOB3UALvrQ

[Andrew NDB]

What a bunch of garbage. They're going to make Black Panther 2 into another origin story because they're spineless cowards while sh**ting on Chadwick and his character.

Wow, what a glorious reign and legacy T'Challa had as Black Panther now! He became Black Panther then a week later vanished for 5 years and came back and died somehow off-screen. I'm sure they'll be talking about his reign for centuries to come in Wakanda! I don't know how these guys can think for one moment this is a good idea. Stupid, stupid, stupid on every level.

[Coola Yagami]

What a bunch of garbage. They're going to make Black Panther 2 into another origin story because they're spineless cowards while sh**ting on Chadwick and his character.

Wow, what a glorious reign and legacy T'Challa had as Black Panther now! He became Black Panther then a week later vanished for 5 years and came back and died somehow off-screen. I'm sure they'll be talking about his reign for centuries to come in Wakanda! I don't know how these guys can think for one moment this is a good idea. Stupid, stupid, stupid on every level.

The MCU really did end with End Game, didn't it?

They really should have either ended it there or gatekeep all these crazy woke directors the **** away from the franchise.

The TVs shows were a terrible idea too. Shoulda stayed as movies.... but actual good movies.

[ProphetofGanja]

I know it's probably just the mushrooms but that got me like really emotional

[Andrew NDB]

They really should have either ended it there or gatekeep all these crazy woke directors the **** away from the franchise.

I'm sure this crap with this movie isn't the director, it's coming from the top.

[Leo656]

I didn't even see the first one but the whole "We can't recast because the actor was just TOOOOOO important" thing reeks of bullsh*t to me. We can't let ourselves start going down that path with these things.

[Autbot_Benz]

I can't wait for this. Ryan Coogler is one of my favorite directors. I bet Shuri o becomes Black Panther in this somewhere

[Leo656]

I'm sure this crap with this movie isn't the director, it's coming from the top.

I don't doubt it. Over in Star Wars, Kathleen Kennedy pretty much said out loud not long ago, "Nobody but Mark Hammill will ever play Luke Skywalker, we learned our lesson with Solo"... which means 100 years from now they're still gonna be CGI'ing his face onto body doubles and stuff like that.

So I wouldn't doubt it if it's the new hard line from Disney Corporate. "We 'can't' recast anyone who's too 'iconic'." :roll:

[ranger_scout]

Well, they decided not to do what Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker did with Carrie Fisher, which would've been using repurposed unseen footage of Chadwick Boseman from a previous movie to conclude his character's story. I know that movie divided critics and audiences, but that was something that a lot of people agreed was very well done given what happened to Fisher. Either they didn't have any unseen footage that could be used properly or they just wanted to do something different.

[Andrew NDB]

Well, they decided not to do what Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker did with Carrie Fisher, which would've been using repurposed unseen footage of Chadwick Boseman from a previous movie to conclude his character's story.

Or they could've just recasted. Period. Simple. Edward Norton didn't remain the Hulk after Incredible Hulk because they decided they didn't want to work with him again. If Norton died after Incredible Hulk, what... by this thinking we'd need to make a whole new Hulk character going into the Avengers? Because we need to honor Norton's 1 movie legacy which means somehow burying his character and hamstringing its legacy?

Absolutely retarded thinking on its face.

[serpentnight]

Is Namor going to make his film debut. If so I hope they don't turn him into one of the MCU's disposable villains. The character deserves better.

[Andrew NDB]

Is Namor going to make his film debut. If so I hope they don't turn him into one of the MCU's disposable villains. The character deserves better.

If anything, this is the Mummy 2 to his Scorpion King to come. Obviously.

[TigerClaw]

Or they could've just recasted. Period. Simple. Edward Norton didn't remain the Hulk after Incredible Hulk because they decided they didn't want to work with him again. If Norton died after Incredible Hulk, what... by this thinking we'd need to make a whole new Hulk character going into the Avengers? Because we need to honor Norton's 1 movie legacy which means somehow burying his character and hamstringing its legacy?

Absolutely retarded thinking on its face.
Edward Norton didn't wanted to work with Marvel again, Because he was upset they did not give him full creative control over the movie.

[AquaParade]

That’s a great trailer but I’m a bit pessimistic about Marvel lately. Hope it lives up to the trailer because it could be something special. Enough with the formulaic crap though please.

[Jester]

I wonder if the trailer hints that this movie will be set during the 5 years after the snap.

[TigerClaw]

I thought it was a great trailer, It was very emotional.

[Coola Yagami]

I wonder if the trailer hints that this movie will be set during the 5 years after the snap.

You know, that would have been a great idea and buy em time so they can recast for part 3.

But since it's an actual good idea, I doubt they'd do that.

[Warhorse]

The MCU really did end with End Game, didn't it?

They really should have either ended it there or gatekeep all these crazy woke directors the **** away from the franchise.

The TVs shows were a terrible idea too. Shoulda stayed as movies.... but actual good movies.

The directors aren't the problem. It's Disney because they are pulling the same crap with Star Wars. Until Disney goes bankrupt and forced to sell the properties to someone who gives a crap, this wokeness will continue.

[Andrew NDB]

Edward Norton didn't wanted to work with Marvel again, Because he was upset they did not give him full creative control over the movie.

No, he's said openly he was surprised they didn't hit him up for Avengers. That he was looking forward to working with Robert and company.

[Warhorse]

Or they could've just recasted. Period. Simple. Edward Norton didn't remain the Hulk after Incredible Hulk because they decided they didn't want to work with him again. If Norton died after Incredible Hulk, what... by this thinking we'd need to make a whole new Hulk character going into the Avengers? Because we need to honor Norton's 1 movie legacy which means somehow burying his character and hamstringing its legacy?

Absolutely retarded thinking on its face.

True. They had no problems recasting Dumbledore when Richard Harris died.

[TigerClaw]

No, he's said openly he was surprised they didn't hit him up for Avengers. That he was looking forward to working with Robert and company.
According to here, Its because he didn't show the amount of creativity that Marvel was hoping for, As I said before, He wanted more control of the movie he was making, But Marvel was calling the shots.
Before the filming of Joss Whedon’s teamup movie could begin, in 201, Marvel Studios’ Kevin Feige released a statement that said they had parted ways with Norton and the “decision is definitely not one based on monetary factors, but instead rooted in the need for an actor who embodies the creativity and collaborative spirit of our other talented cast members.”

He added, “The Avengers demands players who thrive working as part of an ensemble, as evidenced by Robert, Chris H, Chris E, Sam, Scarlett, and all of our talented casts. We are looking to announce a name actor who fulfils these requirements, and is passionate about the iconic role in the coming weeks.”
https://indianexpress.com/article/entertainment/hollywood/why-marvel-fired-edward-norton-as-the-hulk-replaced-him-with-mark-ruffalo-7293700/

[LeotheLateBloomer]

The directors aren't the problem. It's Disney because they are pulling the same crap with Star Wars. Until Disney goes bankrupt and forced to sell the properties to someone who gives a crap, this wokeness will continue.

Yeah, though what would it take for that to happen or for them to get to WB's situation where they had to be bought by a company like AT&T?

[Andrew NDB]

If you are unhappy with one megacorporation owning your favorite IP, you are unlikely to be happy with the next megacorporation owning it. Unless your only goal is to have it share the same sandbox as your other favorite IPs. Then you might. But right now they are all beholden to the same ESG principles.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

How do you feel about Paramount/Viacom owning Garfield?

[Andrew NDB]

How do you feel about Paramount/Viacom owning Garfield?

The same way I feel about Paramount/Viacom owning TMNT. Sad. As soon as a thing changes hands from a human heart to a corporate board of executives it can only go in one direction. And not a good one.

I'm still mystified over Disney buying Marvel in the late 2000s. All the press releases and such was, "If Iron Man and Incredible Hulk fail, we're bust! We're banking everything on this, you better support us!" Then they succeeded, wildly (sure, Iron Man 1 carried Incredible Hulk's weight a bit at the box office, but still) and... eh, sold to a megacorporation anyway, for no reason? And now we're getting woke stuff across the board.

[ZariusTwo]

How do you feel about Paramount/Viacom owning Garfield?

Honestly, all the money with Garfield lies these days in the "Minus Garfield" stories:P

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Surprised me that Jim Davis sold the property to them just like that. Well that differentiates him from the Schulz family where they're very protective of the Peanuts.

But as for the woke s***, these companies are too stupid to realize that people catch on (well some at least). I enjoyed the first Blank Panther though I didn't love it like everyone else did. To do a movie without him though, I can't see this doing well though MCU fans will try and defend it.

[Andrew NDB]

People get old. Want to take care of their families/make sure they're taken care of when they're gone, I get that. Big payday now vs. my son or daughter carries it on and maybe it fails or isn't the same level of quality... eh, I get it. And maybe that level of interest isn't even there amongst the kiddos.

Still sad. Unfortunate. For the property and for the fans.

[IMJ]

I wonder if the trailer hints that this movie will be set during the 5 years after the snap.

I hadn't considered that at all. It's actually a great idea given the situation with Boseman. It's like now that you've said it, it's so obvious.

[Andrew NDB]

I hadn't considered that at all. It's actually a great idea given the situation with Boseman. It's like now that you've said it, it's so obvious.

I've said that elsewhere and was reminded that no, it can't be. Shuri was snapped yet there she is, front and center.

[Coola Yagami]

I've said that elsewhere and was reminded that no, it can't be. Shuri was snapped yet there she is, front and center.

Dang, I forgot she was snapped too.

[ProphetofGanja]

How do you feel about Paramount/Viacom owning Garfield?

who honestly gives af about garfield? :-?

[CyberCubed]

It's a film about black people and now a woman lead, anyone who thinks this won't be "double woke" is out of their minds. Now we don't get a cool male Black Panther either.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

who honestly gives af about garfield? :-?

Paramount obviously.

[neatoman]

All this talk of Garfield in a Black Panther thread makes me want to see T'Challa chow down lasagna and declaring his hatred of Mondays.

[Andrew NDB]

Feige on how they're all spineless cowards over there who are OK with sh**ing on Chadwick's character:

https://comicbookmovie.com/black_panther/black_panther_wakanda_forever/black-panther-marvel-studios-president-kevin-feige-on-why-tchalla-hasnt-been-recast-in-wakanda-forever-a196995?fbclid=IwAR2Iw21YFMqEGT-B90zNgA1oecWwScKBZhoXHyfnU8HQgFD8IKtqjXmbw2o#gs.84 4a.doxcqk

[AquaParade]

Feige on how they're all spineless cowards over there who are OK with sh**ing on Chadwick's character:

https://comicbookmovie.com/black_panther/black_panther_wakanda_forever/black-panther-marvel-studios-president-kevin-feige-on-why-tchalla-hasnt-been-recast-in-wakanda-forever-a196995?fbclid=IwAR2Iw21YFMqEGT-B90zNgA1oecWwScKBZhoXHyfnU8HQgFD8IKtqjXmbw2o#gs.84 4a.doxcqk

Don't be weird.

The truth is it's just a casualty of the MCU being an assembly line, for better or worse. They weren't going to push it back and they weren't going to force the cast and crew to go through an awkward experience, right after they lost Chadwick.

In a perfect world, they'd push the film back a few years and re-cast, but the MCU is too big of a machine to just do that.

[Coola Yagami]

Don't be weird.

The truth is it's just a casualty of the MCU being an assembly line, for better or worse. They weren't going to push it back and they weren't going to force the cast and crew to go through an awkward experience, right after they lost Chadwick.

In a perfect world, they'd push the film back a few years and re-cast, but the MCU is too big of a machine to just do that.

I mean... it's still the truth though.

And yeah, unfortunately the MCU is too much of a machine to stop, and thus you end up with crap like this. However, since the MCU is such a machine and the 'show must go on' in order to keep the other upcoming movies moving forward.... just recast Chadwick and move the **** on. The show must go on, no matter what.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, the MCU as an assembly line would seem to pose a bigger case for why they should've recast Chadwick, not a case for why they shouldn't or wouldn't.

So AquaParade's idea is that, a recast T'Challa would be too much for the cast to bare so close to Chadwick's death IRL (even though he died in August of 2020 and production didn't start until almost July of 2021)... eh, why, exactly? The new T'Challa shows up in costume and they just break down into uncontrollable fits of crying, unable to continue? But even if so, what, so let's make a movie where everyone is grieving for the character played by the dead actor instead, that's much better?

[IMJ]

Not recasting is simply Kevin Feige's latest virtue-signal as a continuation of his social agenda through Marvel films.

Boseman was awesome as Black Panther, he really was. But I can just imagine Feige's mental algebra here - "well our star is gone but I can spin this further into a female Black Panther and get it done under cover of respect for a fallen 'black man' as a public display. It's perfect.... a two for one."

[AquaParade]

Yeah, the MCU as an assembly line would seem to pose a bigger case for why they should've recast Chadwick, not a case for why they shouldn't or wouldn't.

So AquaParade's idea is that, a recast T'Challa would be too much for the cast to bare so close to Chadwick's death IRL (even though he died in August of 2020 and production didn't start until almost July of 2021)... eh, why, exactly? The new T'Challa shows up in costume and they just break down into uncontrollable fits of crying, unable to continue? But even if so, what, so let's make a movie where everyone is grieving for the character played by the dead actor instead, that's much better?

Yeah, pretty much, just without the hyperbole.

And it’s not like you can just cast him at the drop of a hat. Negotiations, contracts that span a decade or more. Let alone the fact that it’s a sensitive role that a lot of top choices are going to be hesitant to take.

For all Feige knew, the maniacs online would have started a huge backlash campaign against whoever they did re-cast with, in some sort of nutty attempt to defend Boseman. I mean, would that really surprise you?

Combine that with the emotional aspect and it makes sense.

I’m not necessarily defending the way the MCU makes movies but it is successful and it’s too big to stop for one person, so I can understand the tight space they found themselves in. Production starts soon, you’ve not even thought about recasting, and the cast is an emotional wreck. You have fun casting that role in the time allotted.

Who knows how the director felt about it. Are you going to piss off the director, who was actually friends with the person who died, and force him to make a film with a replacement, that soon after his death?

Your implication that they didn’t recast because they are crappy people is just sort of ridiculous.



Regardless, he was probably going to take a backseat to a female Black Panther either way. That would not surprise me at all. As I’ve said before, I do think it probably made things easier for Feige in some sense. Or at least kicked the door open for other ideas he had.

[Coola Yagami]

I guess I'll catch this movie whenever. Absolutely no rush to see this one.

My god, it really did end with End Game with Far From Home as an aftermath and No Way Home as a nostalgia bonus.

[ProphetofGanja]

So many panties in a bunch all over a superhero movie :lol: c'mon now folks let's rise above sensationalism

Were people this upset when Heath Ledger died and they didn't recast the Joker?

[AquaParade]

I guess I'll catch this movie whenever. Absolutely no rush to see this one.

My god, it really did end with End Game with Far From Home as an aftermath and No Way Home as a nostalgia bonus.

“End” for you, maybe. It’s still a monster of a franchise and will continue to make billion dollars hits.

It’s going through some choppy waters right now but to call it over is just silly. There are simply too many seeds planted for it to end anytime soon. They could simply ride the nostalgia for another decade if that’s what it takes.

If by “end” you mean, it’s no longer a major part of pop-culture zeitgeist, I also disagree. Wakanda Forever likely makes a billion.

I just think we should slow our roll before we take shots at the longevity or success of the MCU. There’s nothing like it nor has there ever been. The success is enormous.

It’s telling that people are calling out your downfall, because you had two films that grossed slightly under one billion and some less than stellar fan-reception.

I do somewhat understand the sentiment. Personally, I haven’t been truly excited to see an MCU movie since No Way Home, which was a mixed bag. And the last MCU movie to satisfy me fully (more or less) was Endgame.

So, no, I don’t think they are in top-form right now, but still.

[ZariusTwo]

“End” for you, maybe. It’s still a monster of a franchise and will continue to make billion dollars hits.

Just because it's making money doesn't mean it's good, or that the audience have strong tastes. They have proven they don't watch the movie for the story, but only care about references, memes, easter eggs and next time trailers and mid-credit scenes, they're always fans of the next movie, never the one they've paid to watch. On one ride, onto another.

Were people this upset when Heath Ledger died and they didn't recast the Joker?

People were more upset when Heath Ledger was cast as The Joker:lol:

[Andrew NDB]

Were people this upset when Heath Ledger died and they didn't recast the Joker?

Not really 1:1 there. While we all figured the Joker could show up in Part 3 of the Nolan trilogy, it was hardly required or a given. His story had a beginning a middle and an end in The Dark Knight. I say they should have recast for TDKR but it's whatever, I get it. And The Dark Knight wasn't like one part of an ongoing colossus like the MCU or anything.

[Coola Yagami]

“End” for you, maybe. It’s still a monster of a franchise and will continue to make billion dollars hits.



Still over to me, and many others. The only MCU anything I'm remotely interested in is the Thunderbolts due to the interesting mix of characters. And even then I'm not exactly riveted.

I'll probably be excited whenever the next Tom Holland Spiderman movie is announced. Or maybe whenever the X-Men are announced depending on if it's not X-Men in name only.

[ProphetofGanja]

People were more upset when Heath Ledger was cast as The Joker:lol:

lmao I do remember that :lol: I remember ppl thought it was a controversial choice but I guess I never really understood why. I guess some ppl thought Ledger was too much of a "romantic lead" type or something?


Not really 1:1 there. While we all figured the Joker could show up in Part 3 of the Nolan trilogy, it was hardly required or a given. His story had a beginning a middle and an end in The Dark Knight. I say they should have recast for TDKR but it's whatever, I get it. And The Dark Knight wasn't like one part of an ongoing colossus like the MCU or anything.

True, it's not the same type of situation exactly but at least in general.

I do think in hindsight it could have been an interesting take to recast the Joker and lean into it, since the Joker is often portrayed as an unreliable witness when it comes to his own origin story. But I guess the turnaround was just too quick and they already had a pretty full story outlined with Bane.

[Andrew NDB]

I do think in hindsight it could have been an interesting take to recast the Joker and lean into it, since the Joker is often portrayed as an unreliable witness when it comes to his own origin story. But I guess the turnaround was just too quick and they already had a pretty full story outlined with Bane.

Meanwhile, let's recast the entire emotional heart of the trilogy one movie into things with an actress that looks nothing like her (Rachel). But Joker -- a guy in full-face makeup -- nope, can't recast him.

[AquaParade]

Just because it's making money doesn't mean it's good, or that the audience have strong tastes.

Well, yeah, but something not appealing to your tastes doesn't mean it has reached it's "end".

Still over to me, and many others. The only MCU anything I'm remotely interested in is the Thunderbolts due to the interesting mix of characters. And even then I'm not exactly riveted.

I'll probably be excited whenever the next Tom Holland Spiderman movie is announced. Or maybe whenever the X-Men are announced depending on if it's not X-Men in name only.

If you mean, personally over to you, then sure. I can understand that. Endgame is a good jumping off point, so at least there is that.
Hell, I'm halfway off the boat myself, until they bring me back with something strong. I've been pretty disillusioned with the MCU since Endgame, as I mentioned.

I'm going to give World of Wakanda a chance, but I'm not holding my breath right now.

My point was just that the MCU isn't going away, despite all the cries from detractors. It needs some course-corrections though.

[Autbot_Benz]

Ryan Coogler’s upcoming sequel Black Panther: Wakanda Forever sports a running time of two hours and 41 minutes, according to major theater chains that have started posting information about the movie on their websites. Disney later confirmed the running time.



https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/movies/movie-news/black-panther-wakanda-forever-runtime-mcu-movie-1235228098/

[Coola Yagami]

My point was just that the MCU isn't going away, despite all the cries from detractors. It needs some course-corrections though.

Yeah, sadly this is gonna go for the long haul. The MCU is gonna last so long that by the time it finally ends, gets forgotten and someone else decided to reboot the whole thing, we'll all be either hella old or dead.

[IMJ]

My point was just that the MCU isn't going away, despite all the cries from detractors. It needs some course-corrections though.

I have literally never seen anyone cry out that the MCU is going away. Not once have I seen that. I think you've invented a non-existent opponent.

I have seen people say that the heyday of the MCU ended with Endgame however, and that nobody knows who these new productions are actually geared towards. I've seen that.... which is similar to your course correction comment.

[Coola Yagami]

I have literally never seen anyone cry out that the MCU is going away. Not once have I seen that. I think you've invented a non-existent opponent.

I have seen people say that the heyday of the MCU ended with Endgame however, and that nobody knows who these new productions are actually geared towards. I've seen that.... which is similar to your course correction comment.

I do wonder how much longer before we start calling it 'zombie MCU' like many do to the Simpsons.

[AquaParade]

I have literally never seen anyone cry out that the MCU is going away. Not once have I seen that. I think you've invented a non-existent opponent.

I have seen people say that the heyday of the MCU ended with Endgame however, and that nobody knows who these new productions are actually geared towards. I've seen that.... which is similar to your course correction comment.

Not that it is going to go away, but that it is essentially all downhill from here for them. That’s what we’re discussing.

No need to invent a non-existent opponent. It’s not that serious. But you can find a lot of vocal groups online with opinions that may surprise you.

[Coola Yagami]

Not that it is going to go away, but that it is essentially all downhill from here for them. That’s what we’re discussing.

No need to invent a non-existent opponent. It’s not that serious. But you can find a lot of vocal groups online with opinions that may surprise you.

I mean so far it pretty much does look like Zombie MCU with 'guest star' exceptions like No Way Home and Deadpool 3 with Fox Wolverine.

Maybe they'll eventually do a Amazing Spider-Man 3 with Hardy Venom and they'll spin like 'so... Hardy and Garfield were both in MCU films, so even though it's Sony, it's still totally a MCU movie, see? See?"

[AquaParade]

I mean so far it pretty much does look like Zombie MCU with 'guest star' exceptions like No Way Home and Deadpool 3 with Fox Wolverine.

Maybe they'll eventually do a Amazing Spider-Man 3 with Hardy Venom and they'll spin like 'so... Hardy and Garfield were both in MCU films, so even though it's Sony, it's still totally a MCU movie, see? See?"

I don’t think it’s an apt analogy.

I guess you could say that. I don’t really see the same discrepancy as I do between the golden age of The Simpsons and where we are now with The Simpsons.

Although, with the focus on cameos, I can understand the cynicism. Something that does relate to modern day Simpsons.

And again, I think the MCU is in choppy waters currently, but I see a lot of great movies and shows in their future that maintain the heights they’ve reached or surpass them.

They are going to have so many shots at the basket, that they are bound to kick out some more great films. Especially because they have more access to actors, directors, and money then ever before.

I think Deadpool 3 is just an example of that. People did not see this announcement coming, generally speaking. And for many people this is very exciting.

Will it be good? Maybe. Maybe not. But it shows they still have tricks up their sleeve. And fan-service or not, these are great actors and this is bound to be a lot of fun.

Personally, I don’t envision many people saying “oh the first two Thors, Age of Ultron, and Iron Man 2 - those were the days. Now we have zombie MCU with No Way Home, Deadpool 3, and Secret Wars.”

But it’s subjective.

[IMJ]

The thing is that I understand that you can't just make Downey Iron Man films for 20 years.... or... wait actually in the beginning Feige said that Iron Man was like James Bond. A character that could continue on past any actor for decades.

But it's just a neverending state of irony that Marvel pulled off a full-on, all-continuity movie-universe and yet have been crippled by that continuity to the point where their rabid fanbase isn't gobbling it all up.

[AquaParade]

Feige probably said that not knowing that the MCU would become the biggest entertainment franchise in the world. He may have thought they’d need to be making Iron Man 5 by now snd Downey could be finished.

Then Ant-Man was #1 at the box office.

I wouldn’t say the McU is crippled by their continuity at all. They can bring Downey back whenever they want.

[Coola Yagami]

Eh literally nothing in phase 4 or 5 or whatever was announced recently interested me with except Thunderbolts. Especially since no X-Men or the next Spider-Man movie wasn't announced.

Right now Deadpool is it to be honest. The rest is pretty much take it or leave it. Even Secret Wars, seems Nick Fury only, if it leads to a movie, just skip straight to the movie.

[AquaParade]

To me, the saddest thing about the MCU right now, is they could announce a live-action Spider-Man show for Disney Plus, and I'd just sort of shrug my shoulders, because 90% of the Disney+ shows have been, well, trash, in my opinion.

I think those shows are degrading the reputation of the MCU.

WandaVision, I liked. The writing was actually pretty good.

I do think they will improve though. There has been some pretty harsh feedback, strong drop-offs, and they are new to this.

I also think it's worth considering that we may underestimate just how hard the pandemic was on their process. We could very well just be experiencing the fruits of all that right now. It certainly wouldn't account for every critique they've received as of late, but it could make a big difference.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, they pretty much should have stuck to movies.

[IMJ]

Dude. They are going to call the X-Men "The Mutants". :lol:
Don't pay for that woke $#!( for sure....

[AquaParade]

As much as Victoria Alonso wants that, I don't think it will happen. At least as a replacement for "X-Men".

If anything, they'd just go with "X-Force".

You don't drop the "X", that's terrible branding.

[ProphetofGanja]

Meanwhile, let's recast the entire emotional heart of the trilogy one movie into things with an actress that looks nothing like her (Rachel). But Joker -- a guy in full-face makeup -- nope, can't recast him.

I literally did not even remember that they had to recast the love interest for whatever reason :lol: guess that just goes to show how memorable her character was to the overarching plot of that trilogy

To me, the saddest thing about the MCU right now, is they could announce a live-action Spider-Man show for Disney Plus, and I'd just sort of shrug my shoulders, because 90% of the Disney+ shows have been, well, trash, in my opinion.

I think those shows are degrading the reputation of the MCU.

WandaVision, I liked. The writing was actually pretty good.

I do think they will improve though. There has been some pretty harsh feedback, strong drop-offs, and they are new to this.

I also think it's worth considering that we may underestimate just how hard the pandemic was on their process. We could very well just be experiencing the fruits of all that right now. It certainly wouldn't account for every critique they've received as of late, but it could make a big difference.
Yeah, they pretty much should have stuck to movies.

Pretty much every one of the MCU Disney+ shows has an aggregate rating of an A- or B+ (just from looking at Rotten Tomatoes) so I mean, they've been pretty well-received. [I didn't check the ratings for What If? since it's not really canon or She-Hulk since it's not over yet]

[Andrew NDB]

Dude. They are going to call the X-Men "The Mutants". :lol:

Well, they're going to call a movie "The Mutants," allegedly. What that means for the X-Men, if anything, remains to be seen. If that's their move I'd just assume it means that any notion of the X-Men already existing in the MCU in hiding would be out the window, and their formation would be something we see happen "live" in the MCU.

[IMJ]

I accept no excuses or manipulative-rationale to justify "agenda". That's for the sheep.

[AquaParade]

Pretty much every one of the MCU Disney+ shows has an aggregate rating of an A- or B+ (just from looking at Rotten Tomatoes) so I mean, they've been pretty well-received. [I didn't check the ratings for What If? since it's not really canon or She-Hulk since it's not over yet]

Maybe "trash" is a strong word.

I'm not saying they are trash. I'm just saying I think they are trash.

[Galactus]

I have literally never seen anyone cry out that the MCU is going away. Not once have I seen that. I think you've invented a non-existent opponent.

I have seen people say that the heyday of the MCU ended with Endgame however, and that nobody knows who these new productions are actually geared towards. I've seen that.... which is similar to your course correction comment.

Youtube is full of videos predicting the downfall of the MCU. Each movie or Disney+ series is the worst thing they've ever put out and is going to be the one that finally brings the whole thing crashing down.

As for their heyday being over No Way Home made billions, Multiverse of Madness fell just shy of a billion, the fourth movie in the Thor series ended up being their most profitable and they made financially successful movies out of Shang Chi and the Eternals of all things. It's highly likely Wakanda Forever makes a billion, Deadpool 3 will also be big and X-Men related movies will be huge...oh and if there is still any doubt we've got two Avengers movies coming. Even their lowest rated TV series still performed getter than Peacemaker which everyone raved about.

[Andrew NDB]

Eternals was not profitable.

[Leo656]

I think the fact that the "Multiverse of Madness" movie made so much money despite nobody having a very strong positive opinion about it says a lot about the state of the MCU, and that it will be "fine" for a good long time even if general enthusiasm has waned. The movies may not be an overwhelming source of water cooler conversation that dominates the entire pop culture landscape anymore, and probably won't be again to the level that they were, but even the "lesser" MCU movies are still considered to be "must-see viewing" by most people.

They're just plain the new "movies everybody goes to see just for the sake of going to see" even if they don't expect them to be groundbreaking. People are constantly, constantly aghast and upset with me whenever they ask me if I saw the latest MCU joint, and I reply that I don't like those movies and don't watch them. I've had Church People get less offended when I tell them I'm agnostic, than I do when a random everyday person finds out that I have no interest in Marvel movies. Even the newer ones; when I say stuff like, "Eh, I heard _________ isn't even that good anyway" just to try and get out of the conversation, they're like "Yeah, but dude, it's MARVEL! You GOTTA go see the new Marvel movie, everybody does, it's just what ya do, man!"

I don't think we're anywhere near overwhelming apathy yet, at least not enough to make people stop going and spending money. Attitude-wise, yeah, there's a little less emotional investment and a little more general apathy from the general audience, but MCU movies are definitely still "doing fine" by the metric Disney cares most about, that being dollars and cents. As we saw with Multiverse and Thor 4, people can bitch and moan the entire time about the movie and still go pay to see it see it three or four times "just to see how I really feel about it" simply because it's an MCU movie and that's what you do.

It's not like they'll ever run out of Easter eggs or post-credits cameos to make people say, "Well, the newest movie was meh, but DUDE that post-credits scene has me SO hyped for the next one!" and in turn people forgive the entirety of what they just watched. They can keep doing that forever and people will keep popping for it. They'll be fine.

I mean, you see right here in these threads how people are. "I just think the MCU has lost its spark, they're done for me. I'm only gonna see this one thing... and then this other thing... and MAYBE this one other thing, depending... but that's IT!" :trazz: Which a lot of 'em also said a year or two ago as well, and will still be saying two or three years from now.

I mean I generally hate the MCU, I'm just saying that objectively they're too big to fail and that they'll continue to do just fine even if they're not as dominant as they were.

[Andrew NDB]

I think "Multiverse of Madness" made a bunch of money because people were riding high after "No Way Home" and expecting even more stuff in that vein. Then they got a big fat 0. Will they continue to come back after being fooled the once? Well, the jury's out on that, and Black Panther 2 won't really tell the tale because it's basically being pushed as Chadwick Boseman: The Wake. No one's going to miss that, are they?

[ProphetofGanja]

As much as Victoria Alonso wants that, I don't think it will happen. At least as a replacement for "X-Men".

If anything, they'd just go with "X-Force".

You don't drop the "X", that's terrible branding.

I feel like they're in danger of exploding their brains trying to figure out how to have a movie title that has both the "X' necessary for the branding as well as inclusive language (that "men" isn't). I mean what are they gonna call it, X-People?

I think "Multiverse of Madness" made a bunch of money because people were riding high after "No Way Home" and expecting even more stuff in that vein. Then they got a big fat 0. Will they continue to come back after being fooled the once? Well, the jury's out on that, and Black Panther 2 won't really tell the tale because it's basically being pushed as Chadwick Boseman: The Wake. No one's going to miss that, are they?

lmao so cynical but yet not wrong. Even when I was watching that last trailer it got me pumped up but there was definitely an element of "I am watching a commercial for a funeral" to it



I mean, you see right here in these threads how people are. "I just think the MCU has lost its spark, they're done for me. I'm only gonna see this one thing... and then this other thing... and MAYBE this one other thing, depending... but that's IT!" :trazz: Which a lot of 'em also said a year or two ago as well, and will still be saying two or three years from now.



I mean does it make sense to say I'm not going to go see any subsequent movie that comes out just because one (or some) bad movie(s) came out that I didn't care for? Like yeah steer clear from anything that seems too similar to what you've already found you dislike but in a "cinematic universe" so big there may be something that you would actually like

Like you can like the Punisher series or not She-Hulk. Or Black Panther and not Shang-Chi. Or whatever

[Autbot_Benz]

_Z3QKkl1WyM

[IMJ]

Little touch of Iron Heart there in the trailer...

[Andrew NDB]

_Z3QKkl1WyM

They should be ashamed of themselves.

[AquaParade]

I'm interested, which is more than I can say for most recent MCU projects. I think that was a pretty good trailer.

[CyberCubed]

Sadly it's nothing about Black Panther, the "real" one anyway. Now it just looks like some African nation movie.

[Andrew NDB]

The Woman King 2.

[Mayhem]

They should be ashamed of themselves.
Why? If it’s Shuri, it’s canon to the comics.

[Andrew NDB]

Why? If it’s Shuri, it’s canon to the comics.

You mean right after T'Challa was only Black Panther for 5 minutes and then dropped dead? I doubt it.

[ProphetofGanja]

I mean, it was a real sh!t situation with Boseman dying. But what would you've had them do?

The trailer was pretty good to me; I'm probably more excited for this than I was for Multiverse of Madness

[Andrew NDB]

I mean, it was a real sh!t situation with Boseman dying. But what would you've had them do?

Recast, of course. Even his brother said that's what he would have wanted. Now Marvel is stunting the legacy of the character he brought to life and buying it in the casket right along with Chadwick.

It's really pretty infuriating.

[AquaParade]

It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's a sensitive situation. Really no need to point fingers and make accusations, just because you disagree with how they handled it.

They can always have a new T'Challa in the future,

[Coola Yagami]

It's nothing to be ashamed of. It's a sensitive situation. Really no need to point fingers and make accusations, just because you disagree with how they handled it.

They can always have a new T'Challa in the future,

Naw cause if they could then they'd just do it NOW.

[neatoman]

They should be ashamed of themselves.

You think Disney is capable of feeling shame?

[ProphetofGanja]

Recast, of course. Even his brother said that's what he would have wanted. Now Marvel is stunting the legacy of the character he brought to life and burying it in the casket right along with Chadwick.

It's really pretty infuriating.

Unfortunately, Boseman died without sharing his thoughts on the matter. I can respect that different parties, both trying to honor his life and legacy, have reached different conclusions about how best to do that. Honestly, just a really sh!tty situation. I can't imagine many actors would have been too eager to jump into the role, knowing the scrutiny they'd be under and the endless comparisons to Boseman's portrayal they'd have to face. But it does also suck for us moviegoers, because I don't know how long it'll be now before we see someone cast as T'Challa as the Black Panther again.

When will Marvel be rebooted? Star Wars still never has. Does the MCU have as much staying power as that, to just keep going without having to hit the reset button? I don't want to get into the quality of the Star Wars stuff as that's a whole nother can of worms, but nobody can deny the brand still has a lot of pull (read: profitability).



Naw cause if they could then they'd just do it NOW.

That makes absolutely no sense :roll:

[IMJ]

Recast, of course. Even his brother said that's what he would have wanted. Now Marvel is stunting the legacy of the character he brought to life and buying it in the casket right along with Chadwick.

It's really pretty infuriating.

They didn't recast Boseman out of.... you know... respect for the Black Community.

But now they want to recast Hurt as General Ross, possibly using Harrison Ford.

Most likely white people wouldn't be up in arms about the "disregard for a white man" or something like that. It must be because of the white supremacists. Or the misogynists. One of those two for sure.

[Coola Yagami]

]
Unfortunately, Boseman died without sharing his thoughts on the matter. I can respect that different parties, both trying to honor his life and legacy, have reached different conclusions about how best to do that. Honestly, just a really sh!tty situation. I can't imagine many actors would have been too eager to jump into the role, knowing the scrutiny they'd be under and the endless comparisons to Boseman's portrayal they'd have to face. But it does also suck for us moviegoers, because I don't know how long it'll be now before we see someone cast as T'Challa as the Black Panther again.

When will Marvel be rebooted? Star Wars still never has. Does the MCU have as much staying power as that, to just keep going without having to hit the reset button? I don't want to get into the quality of the Star Wars stuff as that's a whole nother can of worms, but nobody can deny the brand still has a lot of pull (read: profitability).





That makes absolutely no sense :roll:





It makes less sense than having the character die after already 'dying' and then coming back after 'the blip'.

Like I know the real world reason, but in-universe that's just bad writing. The show must go on. Or just don't make a sequel.

[ProphetofGanja]

It makes less sense than having the character die after already 'dying' and then coming back after 'the blip'.

Like I know the real world reason, but in-universe that's just bad writing. The show must go on. Or just don't make a sequel.

I mean, yeah it sucks but sometimes real life is just "bad writing". Sh!t situations happen and we have to make the best of them, and no amount of whining about how things should've gone will do any good. I am curious though as to how they will contextualize T'Challa's death. Obviously it's something that's happened in-universe but I imagine they don't want to make it a huge plot point of the film, more so something that happened before the events of the movie unfold and that the surviving characters are still contending with. Shoot, it might as well just be chalked up to random, unfortunate illness, just like in real life.

But thinking it was even a possibility for a company to just not make a sequel to a billion dollar movie that is a part of a multi-billion dollar franchise is just asinine

[Mayhem]

When will Marvel be rebooted? Star Wars still never has.
It sort of has, once Disney bought Lucasfilm a whole load of the canon EU and other materials became "legends" and removed from being canon. The only things remaining iirc were the films, and the Clone Wars series.

[Andrew NDB]

It makes less sense than having the character die after already 'dying' and then coming back after 'the blip'.

Right? wtf! Wakanda just got him back and then he died again? I can't even fathom why anyone there would be impressed with T'Challa's legacy because he wasn't allowed to have one. His legacy is that he became king, spent 5 years being blipped and presumed dead, then coming back and dying for real -- wow!

[Coola Yagami]

But thinking it was even a possibility for a company to just not make a sequel to a billion dollar movie that is a part of a multi-billion dollar franchise is just asinine

If it was a standalone movie series, yeah, but this is just one cog in the greater MCU. Without T'Challa, they can reserve Wakanda for any other movie that just so happens to take place there for a bit, or give Shuri, Oyoke or M'Baku their own series or such other nonsense.


Right? wtf! Wakanda just got him back and then he died again? I can't even fathom why anyone there would be impressed with T'Challa's legacy because he wasn't allowed to have one. His legacy is that he became king, spent 5 years being blipped and presumed dead, then coming back and dying for real -- wow!

Right? Dude was king for like a weekend. It's a shame what happened to Chadwick in real life but the character shouldn't suffer because of it. I mean imagine if anything (god forbid) happened to any of the major players before they wrapped up filming for End Game? And I mean before they filmed all their scenes.

[AquaParade]

It’s easy for you guys to say “just recast now and film with a new actor” when you didn’t know Chadwick personally. Sure, they had professional relationships but they were obviously friends as well.

It’s a very awkward situation to throw someone else in the role, that soon after such a tragic passing, and expect the entire cast and crew to just go with it.

Losing a young friend to cancer is traumatizing. Try to have some empathy for them and understand that there was no easy choice to be made. Maybe there is more at stake than the script to a comic book movie.

Plus, while many people are dying to play that role, I doubt many were dying to take that role, months after Chadwick died.
If you wait, you probably open your options up tenfold.

So I can see why they made this decision in both a personal and a strategic sense.

William Hurt is not an apt comparison. His death is not as tragic as Chadwick’s, because he was able to live a long, full life. It’s also a much smaller role, which would hardly effect anyone.

Yeah, it gives the character an awkward arc in the MCU, but let’s be real, the blip did that to everyone. Spider-Man went to space and died for five years before learning that with great power comes great responsibility. Oh well.

[Andrew NDB]

They had plenty of options if they wanted to kick the can a little. A Black Panther 2 set during the 5 years T'Challa was blipped and Wakanda was in mourning, thereby echoing audiences mourning Chadwick (which seems important to them, the movie serving as a wake). End the movie right as T'Challa is about to emerge from being blipped. Then, 3-4 years later, Black Panther 3 comes out and has the new actor playing T'Challa in the present.

Would that not have been satisfactory?

[AquaParade]

It’s not that those are bad ideas, but maybe they had a better one. Hard to say until we see the execution.

My bet is that we get a multiverse T’challa at some point. Maybe he even sticks around in the main universe after Secret Wars or something. Just a guess.

Personally, I’m not against someone else taking up the role of Black Panther, and I wouldn’t have been against a recast. I just don’t think it’s something to be casting stones over. They were between a rock and a hard place.

[Andrew NDB]

It’s not that those are bad ideas, but maybe they had a better one. Hard to say until we see the execution.

It's true. And maybe we do arrive in some situation where T'Challa is only presumed dead (again), or turned to stone or something... to be revisited and recast later on when the Marvel emotional/moral committee of experts decides enough time has passed. It will be interesting to see how ambiguous or not his new death will be. Also, how they actually accomplish the death without actually ever showing T'Challa on screen in new footage. And if they DO show T'Challa on screen (like just with the mask on or some CGI) getting killed, wow. They'd be so worried about people mourning Chadwick's death, now they're going to show the character he played getting killed, too? Like, for an encore?

And while I hate the decision to kill him, what I hate most is their saying it is to preserve Chadwick's legacy. It isn't. They chose the one path that does the very opposite of that. They just don't want to risk pissing people off -- anybody off, especially anybody in the black community -- and that's it, because they're cowards. They should have waited a good while, come out and announced, "We're doing Black Panther 2. We're continuing the grand legacy that Chadwick began and we will announce the new T'Challa at the appropriate time" and stayed firm, hand-waving away any Twitter nonsense.

"Good news, folks! We love Chadwick so much and want to celebrate the character he brought to life that we're going to go ahead and kill off that character, and make the sequel to the Black Panther movie he did a big funeral for it, because he was so great." What? This is sick.

My bet is that we get a multiverse T’challa at some point. Maybe he even sticks around in the main universe after Secret Wars or something. Just a guess.

Maybe, and that wouldn't surprise me at all, but that wouldn't be much of anything. But also, if they're really obsessed about not having a new actor playing T'Challa as a straight out recasting, there's enough weirdness in the lore to where they could in-story put his spirit into a new body.

[Mayhem]

Do we know how long after the events of Endgame this film takes place?

[Andrew NDB]

Do we know how long after the events of Endgame this film takes place?

I think we're about a year after Endgame, with most stuff. There WERE rumors that this would be set during the 5 year blip but they were debunked.

[Andrew NDB]

Coogler says he decided to kill off T'Challa because he "didn't have the patience."

https://www.darkhorizons.com/coogler-talks-original-black-panther-2-plans/

[Coola Yagami]

Coogler says he decided to kill off T'Challa because he "didn't have the patience."

https://www.darkhorizons.com/coogler-talks-original-black-panther-2-plans/

Patience for what?

[Autbot_Benz]

Patience for what?

“That is not the death of the Black Panther, that’s the whole point. It’s laying to rest [T’Challa] and allowing for real life to inform the story of the movies. I know that there are all sorts of reasons why people want him to be recast, but I don’t have the patience. I don’t have the presence of mind, or I don’t have the objectivity to argue with that. I don’t. I’m very biased.”

from the article

[Leo656]

So basically he's saying he just doesn't want to get into it and wants people to stop bringing it up as a What If because it's over and done with.

Look at the specific wording. He's not saying he didn't have the patience to recast, he's saying he doesn't have the patience to engage or "justify" that question of recasting with a response.

It's a way to go, I guess.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, he was friends with the guy. I wouldn’t have patience for people telling me how to handle the situation either. For him, it’s tied into his mourning. Don’t tell people how to mourn.

Especially not because you’re upset about a movie franchise.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, he was friends with the guy. I wouldn’t have patience for people telling me how to handle the situation either. For him, it’s tied into his mourning. Don’t tell people how to mourn.

Especially not because you’re upset about a movie franchise.

All the more reason to hold off on a sequel until he's ready.

[AquaParade]

All the more reason to hold off on a sequel until he's ready.

Yeah, if he's ever ready. But holding off doesn't seem like a bad idea to me.

I mean, the MCU does not like to slow down. Barreling ahead is what they do. And it has served them beyond their wildest dreams...so I sort of get why they didn't do that.

At the same time, how many films have they delayed in the last year, for one reason or another? So yeah...it's seeming a little strange now.

I suppose one possibility is that Chapek is seeing the dimishing returns and making big changes in the production methods, as of recently.

[Andrew NDB]

All the more reason to hold off on a sequel until he's ready.

Or get somebody else for the job. Probably that's what would have been best. Someone who could've stepped in and objectively just told the best story for the next chapter of T'Challa.

[ZariusTwo]

Mx_OexsUI2M

Rihanna's track for the film

[ZariusTwo]

https://bleedingcool.com/movies/black-panther-wakanda-forever-review-both-moving-and-messy/

Seems how they deal with T'Challa is all this film's got going for it cohesively

[AquaParade]

Surprisingly, a lot of negative reviews are beginning to hit. And even the positive ones on Rotten Tomatoes are riddled with excuses.

The current score of 88% is pretty deceiving. Barely anyone is calling it a great film.

[neatoman]

Alright, I've seen it... And it's... Much longer than it really needs to be, that's for sure. It generally seems to repeat the necessary information more often than it really needs to and there are several scenes that just don't work. Let's put it like this, the whole thing feels like they never trimmed the fat off the script and they hardly cut any scenes that were filmed.

It's bloated, awkwardly paced and honestly kind of boring.

[Coola Yagami]

Surprisingly, a lot of negative reviews are beginning to hit. And even the positive ones on Rotten Tomatoes are riddled with excuses.

The current score of 88% is pretty deceiving. Barely anyone is calling it a great film.

And the wokes will say all the negative reviews are trolls and haters and racists and whatever else.

[Autbot_Benz]

Disney's way of getting around recasting Chadwick's T'challa is ......

Nakia had T'challa's son when T'challa was blipped away. He is being raised outside of Wakanda so he doesn't have to deal with the royality stuff. The son's name is also T'challa so Son T'challa will eventually become black panther. that way we get a T'challa without it being Chadwick's version

https://comicbookmovie.com/black_panther/black_panther_wakanda_forever/black-panther-wakanda-forever-ending-explained-and-how-mid-credits-scene-sets-up-mcus-future-spoilers-a197781?ap=1#gs.htc743

[AquaParade]

Disney's way of getting around recasting Chadwick's T'challa is ......

Nakia had T'challa's son when T'challa was blipped away. He is being raised outside of Wakanda so he doesn't have to deal with the royality stuff. The son's name is also T'challa so Son T'challa will eventually become black panther. that way we get a T'challa without it being Chadwick's version

https://comicbookmovie.com/black_panther/black_panther_wakanda_forever/black-panther-wakanda-forever-ending-explained-and-how-mid-credits-scene-sets-up-mcus-future-spoilers-a197781?ap=1#gs.htc743


Conceptually, I think that can work just fine. Might also be interesting to see a Black Panther that was raised differently. More of an urban-familiar Black Panther. Idk, could be cool.

[Andrew NDB]

I sure hope the T'Challa Jr. actor doesn't die in a car accident or something down the road. I'd hate to have to see them do this all over again.

I've read some spoiler-free reviews and it sounds more or less like I expected. That's it's sort of, 2 parts a wake for Chadwick Boseman to 1 part "It's all connected, guys! Keep an eye on Namor and Ironheart!" without a really tight sense of focus or stakes.

https://bleedingcool.com/movies/black-panther-wakanda-forever-review-both-moving-and-messy/

Seems how they deal with T'Challa is all this film's got going for it cohesively

Which since that's the most infuriating thing about the movie to me, is not a good thing.

[IMJ]

I saw a review somewhere where they said that Ryan Coogler put cornrows on Iron Heart's helmet. But we have black people going on about white people allegedly being stereotypical and racist.

On that note we are supposed to buy tickets, give them to a black person to see the movie and then stand outside the theater to protect their experience with our bodies.

Protected from their delusions of mobs that might come through a time portal from 1945 somewhere to attack them during Black Panther 2. :trolleye: Because Black Panther is their movie. "Their" movie. But you know.... it's "the white supremacists" causing problems in America. :roll:

[robertfiduciary]

So... do you have a link to this review?

Because, like... I'm kind of willing to wager that you don't.

Also: it really sounds like you should get to know some more black folks. Actual people, mind you. Not, like, always online "people."

Just a suggestion.

I saw a review somewhere where they said that Ryan Coogler put cornrows on Iron Heart's helmet. But we have black people going on about white people allegedly being stereotypical and racist.

On that note we are supposed to buy tickets, give them to a black person to see the movie and then stand outside the theater to protect their experience with our bodies.

Protected from their delusions of mobs that might come through a time portal from 1945 somewhere to attack them during Black Panther 2. :trolleye: Because Black Panther is their movie. "Their" movie. But you know.... it's "the white supremacists" causing problems in America. :roll:

[IMJ]

So... do you have a link to this review?

Because, like... I'm kind of willing to wager that you don't.

What are you implying you dumb $#!(? That I made that nonsense up? You dumb $#!(. Here you go....

https://i.imgur.com/dkXXeWSm.jpg

Dumb $#!(

Also: it really sounds like you should get to know some more black folks. Actual people, mind you. Not, like, always online "people."

Just a suggestion.

Also, you dumb $#!(, my entire "Marvel Movie Crew" is directly comprised of educated black guys that I have known for going on two decades now. Several more of my close buddies across the last decade are black guys and their wives - relationships made from valid connections on the job - doing service that a dumb $#!( like you probably couldn't do. You dumb $#!(.

You f'n phony, pseudonym posting dumb $#!(. You and I aren't the same and thank God for that - I address things as they are. You are littered in your own childish biases and fifth grade provocation. I'm observationally valid. You are full of $#!(. I have a breadth of education, experience and articulation. You have provocation and nonsense positioning. We aren't the same, and thank God for that you dumb $#!(.

Oh, btw in case I forgot - you are a raging dumb $#!(. I know that will all be a tough pill for you to swallow, but that is, after all, because you are a dumb f'n $#!(.

[robertfiduciary]

LOL - those are cornrows? Really?

I mean, okay. Looks like kind of a clickbait-y reach to me.

And I'm glad you know some black people. That's nice.

Maybe get them to teach you some new insults.

Because "dumb $#!(" over and over again... wow, you sure got me! :lol:

Unless you are actually Q-bert. In which case, I appologize.

Also... I thought liberals were "snowflakes?" You sure seem triggered to me there, tough guy :lol:.

What are you implying you dumb $#!(? That I made that nonsense up? You dumb $#!(. Here you go....

https://i.imgur.com/dkXXeWS.jpg

Dumb $#!(



Also, you dumb $#!(, my entire "Marvel Movie Crew" is directly comprised of educated black guys that I worked with at a college for years. Several of my close buddies since 2014 are black guys and their wives from working in another profession altogether. You dumb $#!(.

You f'n phony, pseudonym posting dumb $#!(.

[Cowabung-Gal]

It’sAGundam provides the best insight, as always:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGwCv1ECjNE

[ZariusTwo]

God that was boring, I finally had enough and walked out.

[IMJ]

God that was boring, I finally had enough and walked out.

I can't believe you paid to see it in the first place, man. Doesn't matter if you walked out if they got your money.

[Coola Yagami]

I seen videos about the one TikTok about that one crazy lady saying that all white folks gotta buy tickets for their black friends and just stand outside to protect them on opening weekend, or else they're racist. Then they can go ahead and watch it the following week.

I only seen that one whackjob say it, and every time it gets brought up or mentioned, it always comes back to that same TikTok video of the same idiot. So I don't really think it's like a big thing or something 'all black people are rallying up for' or whatever. It is literally just that one bimbo.

Secondly, where the **** is the dumb bitch coming from? Protect them while watching the movie? Were there black people getting attacked during the first Black Panther movie that we weren't told about?

This is another example of false narratives created ironically by POC, not white people, but POC themselves to keep the separation and racism going. At this point I feel these types are addicted to being victims of some sort.

[Coola Yagami]

I can't believe you paid to see it in the first place, man. Doesn't matter if you walked out if they got your money.

I always thought it was a myth until I saw a random dude walk out of the Black Widow movie lmao. I told myself maybe he went to the bathroom or something or he'll just come back, but no. Dude legit left and never came back.


It was during the family scene. Dude legit got up and said "THIS AIN'T REAL" and left.

I mean, sucks or not, if I paid for a movie, I'll sit through it. I'll at least enjoy the popcorn.

[Andrew NDB]

I can't believe you paid to see it in the first place, man. Doesn't matter if you walked out if they got your money.

This movie in particular I can't support at all, in good conscience. This transcends the usual little sprinkling of woke and is its own special kind of evil that is a separate thing entirely.

[robertfiduciary]

We watched it this morning. It wasn't perfect, but still. Very, very touching.

And, yes. There were tears :cry:.

Curious as to why *anyone who hasn't seen the actual movie* would claim is it's own "special kind of evil."

I mean, why?

This movie in particular I can't support at all, in good conscience. This transcends the usual little sprinkling of woke and is its own special kind of evil that is a separate thing entirely.

[Andrew NDB]

Put simply: emotional manipulation of the audience, the completely unnecessary and unwarranted using and grafting the shared sorrow over an actor onto a fictional character whose journey had just begun while at the very same time using the same movie to spin off a bunch of other unrelated MCU projects, thus piggy-backing on said shared sorrow for monetary gain but in the guise of "We miss you, Chadwick!"

It's sick. It's digusting.

[Coola Yagami]

I mean let's be honest.

A hero just introduces takes the mantle after his father dies. Then he 'dies' in his movie and comes back. Then gets snapped. Is brought back. Then dies for real off screen.

No matter how you slice, real life be damned, that is just horrible writing. Recast the guy and continue T'Challa's story. Chadwick was cool and all, but he wasn't T'Challa, just an actor playing him.

[robertfiduciary]

100% sounds like the opinion of someone who based all their opinions on what other people have told them / what they read online.

But it's "pink hairs" that are prejudiced and bigoted, right guy?


Put simply: emotional manipulation of the audience, the completely unnecessary and unwarranted using and grafting the shared sorrow over an actor onto a fictional character whose journey had just begun while at the very same time using the same movie to spin off a bunch of other unrelated MCU projects, thus piggy-backing on said shared sorrow for monetary gain but in the guise of "We miss you, Chadwick!"

It's sick. It's digusting.

[Coola Yagami]

100% sounds like the opinion of someone who based all their opinions on what other people have told them / what they read online.

But it's "pink hairs" that are prejudiced and bigoted, right guy?

I mean.... Isn't it though? Isn't the movie tugging at the heartstrings cause Chadwick, not T'Challa, but Chadwick died, while at the same time propping up Riri, who has **** all to do with Wakanda. Where's the lie?

Wether the movie is good or bad let's not pretend it's not using sympathy for Chadwick while propping up Riri for her next show or movie.

[robertfiduciary]

For me at least, once the movie started, there was no Chadwick Boseman. Chadwick Boseman does not exist in the film I saw.

I mean, I thought about him after, once we were back in the car and heading home. But there was no Chadwick Boseman in that movie.

There was T'Challa, though. And the grief over his loss was real, believable, and well-conveyed by all the actors.

And of course the actors who knew Chadwick were using their own grief to convey their character's grief over the loss of T'Challa. But they were different, and I definitely was not thinking about (or even aware) of the former while watching a movie about the later.

Art vs. Artist.

As for Riri... maybe it was a *bit* too much stage-setting for the future. I'll cop to that. But she also provided a nice contrast to the characters around her.

AND, if you want to get technical, Riri also had **** all to do with Avengers Endgame. But that was definitely her in the post-credits "scene" at the end of that movie (hammer pounding metal, pounding metal, pounding metal).



I mean.... Isn't it though? Isn't the movie tugging at the heartstrings cause Chadwick, not T'Challa, but Chadwick died, while at the same time propping up Riri, who has **** all to do with Wakanda. Where's the lie?

[Coola Yagami]

For me at least, once the movie started, there was no Chadwick Boseman. Chadwick Boseman does not exist in the film I saw.

I mean, I thought about him after, once we were back in the car and heading home. But there was no Chadwick Boseman in that movie.

There was T'Challa, though. And the grief over his loss was real, believable, and well-conveyed by all the actors.

And of course the actors who knew Chadwick were using their own grief to convey their character's grief over the loss of T'Challa. But they were different, and I definitely was not thinking about (or even aware) of the former while watching a movie about the later.

Art vs. Artist.

As for Riri... maybe it was a *bit* too much stage-setting for the future. I'll cop to that. But she also provided a nice contrast to the characters around her.

AND, if you want to get technical, Riri also had **** all to do with Avengers Endgame. But that was definitely her in the post-credits "scene" at the end of that movie (hammer pounding metal, pounding metal, pounding metal).

I thought that was Tony kinda like a flashback reminder of how the whole MCU got started.

Also I meant T'Challa didn't need to die at all. Recast and move on. The movie was obviously not going to be about Tchalla's wake before Chadwick died. So stick to the original script.

[ZariusTwo]

For me at least, once the movie started, there was no Chadwick Boseman. Chadwick Boseman does not exist in the film I saw.

I mean, I thought about him after, once we were back in the car and heading home. But there was no Chadwick Boseman in that movie.

There was T'Challa, though. And the grief over his loss was real, believable, and well-conveyed by all the actors.

The acting was s*ite mate, get better taste.

[neatoman]

T'Challa's death is pretty weird in general. They don't specify what he died of, just that the purple juice might have saved him. The movie just opens with Shuri trying to synthesise a cure and then he dies.

[neatoman]

Hey, Guys. I found a deleted scene of T'Challa Jr. reacting to his father's death!
iBO8jzc3Z1U

[Andrew NDB]

T'Challa's death is pretty weird in general. They don't specify what he died of, just that the purple juice might have saved him. The movie just opens with Shuri trying to synthesise a cure and then he dies.

I hope that helped Wakandans re-grieve him after they already finished grieving him for 5+ years.

What a stupid, stupid thing. They might have been able to pull this nonsense off if he hadn't have been snapped but shame on Marvel/Disney for even so much as humoring this insult to Chadwick and what he built, or laid the first few blocks for.

[Turo602]

This movie was so f*cking boring. Eternals boring. The whole Chadwick Boseman grieving stuff is awkward and unnecessary too. Like yeah, it sucked what happened and we all felt bad when we found out, but why are we sitting in a movie theater "grieving" the guy years later through Black Panther who was around for like 5 whole minutes before they just kill him off through unseen circumstances and then proceed to give him off screen developments just to one day maybe replace him with a different T'Challa? The movie is literally jumping through so many hoops just to get around recasting the guy even though recasting him would have made for a much better movie that doesn't bore you for 3 hours.

Edit: Also, this has never happened to me before, but when we left the auditorium, these guys who said they work for Marvel were handing out surveys asking us if we had time to fill it out and let them know what we thought of the movie. We took one good look and the sheet and said no thanks, to which I told them the gist of it is that the movie sucked. But seriously, wtf? They got guys from Marvel looking for immediate opinions outside the auditorium doors now?

[Andrew NDB]

I perused "a version" of this.

The good:

* The movie is well made. Coogler knows what he's doing and always has.

* There are some emotional beats in the movie (yes, ones that aren't just "remember Chadwick Boseman died IRL?") that really work and surprised me. They come later in the movie but are earned when they do.

* None of the CGI took me out like that horrible Black Panther vs. Black Panther sequence in the last one.

* The Shuri actress won me over in this one. She was fine as a cutesy side character/kid sister in the last one, but she held her own here OK. Most of her chirpy/sprite-like strengths in the last one she had to downplay because it's time to be dour and serious, but she pulled it off.

* The music, and by this I mean the score. There's a lot of cool eerie synth stuff going on that I like that really energizes scenes.

* Way better than Thor: Love & Thunder. By miles. This at least feels like a real movie, or trying hard to be one and succeeding most of the time, even if I vehemently disagree with that one big choice they made.

* Didn't get a big reading on the woke giger counter, really. Though there it was, of course, what's now becoming a trope of the "3 second lesbian relationship embrace/kiss by third tier supporting cast," usually packed in near the end of a movie. Easily cuttable in case China, etc., but you'll get the shares and articles over here and so forth.

The bad:

* wtf, the Blip isn't so much as even mentioned. Really? The power vacuum that would have happened after both T'Challa and Shuri got snapped isn't talked about, nor are the ramifications of Wakanda having to grieve T'Challa two times. What happened to Wakanda during those 5 years? We have no idea, beyond an assumption we have to make that whatever happened during those years is just happening again. Did that guy who painted the T'Challs picture on the building wall in the trailer paint it after the Blip, remove it, and then re-paint it after he died again? That paint looked pretty fresh. The Blip might as well have never happened in this. I suspect it's because they did a silly thing here and they know it's a silly thing, and getting too much into the Blip underscores how silly it is.

* Namor. I'm not as harsh on the guy as I see a lot of others be but c'mon... the actor had how long to prepare for this? No muscle camp or at least some time to get a swimmer's body going? I'm not saying he looks fat but that dude looks soft. His acting was fine.

* Yes, the choice to snuff out T'Challa sight unseen (if we must go this route why not a fully masked T'Challa seeing some kind of heroic end, instead, rather than directly invite comparisons to the actor's actual death?) is as questionable as I feared. Even moreso, actually. Boy, that opening scene, it's like they want the audience to be in the waiting room of the hospital to know what it's like when Chadwick Boseman died, with a full-on T'Challa simulation of that in real time. Like, why do that scene? It feels creepy and wrong, right off the bat. I WILL SAY, though, the movie didn't lean as much into it afterward as I figured it would, though it definitely keeps coming up. I was a little relieved when after that opening scene we arrived at "One Year Later" and not "2 Days Later."

* Riri. She never annoyed me but I also never really felt anything for the character. She's just there because the Disney+ show, I guess. Super smart and able to build Iron Man suits because... she can, I guess. No Tony Stark connections or anything. And that second suit she builds is FUGLY. The plot inexplicably revolves around her. Basically she built some kind of vibranium scanner for a class project on a whim (and because of course she's naturally so smart), but somehow the designs for it ended up with the military and now Namor wants to kill her, which prompts Shuri and the others to defend her, thus starting a war with Namor. It's just so convoluted and silly, when you step back from it and reexamine. This was really the best way to evoke a mini-war with the Wakandans and the Namorians?

* The toothless combat. The first scene with the military types getting tazer-speared is one thing, since they didn't want to kill any of them but during the final two mega battles between Namor's people and the Wakandans... there's mass floodings and you see a spear slash land here and there and "Ow! That probably hurt!" stuff... but I'm not actually seeing any casualties going on. And we're supposed to react triumphantly whenever a Wakandan whacks a water person back into the water. Huh? That's just going to make them feel better. Even if they're KOed it's not like they're going to drown.

* That was a long movie, and it felt it. I get there isn't a good way to sell the emotional beats they were going for while still cramming in origins for Namor and his people and everything else and keeping the time super down... but surely stuff could have been trimmed here. Like Riri entirely and finding another reason for Namor to be upset with Wakanda. Like, they went out of their way not to find a simple reason, which could have been anything. Like, maybe the Wakandans DID start helping countries by doling out small amounts of vibranium for this reason or that reason, making good on the promise of the last movie, and Namor caught wind of this. Done. Also, imagine how much shorter this movie would have been if it had just been a newly recast T'Challa. Entire strokes wouldn't have been needed and conversations with Namor would have been very different. And 45 minutes saved.

* Wakandans saying evil AI only happens in the movies? Did none of the writers remember Ultron? Who was made of vibranium? From Wakanda? Would that not have been front page news in the Wakandan press by anyone that has an internet connection? Or maybe this went over my head and we're supposed to read into this that Wakanda DOES suppress media from its inhabitants and this was a supposed to be a haha moment, but in a different way. Not sure.

Also, would there really be the first movie's Black Panther helmet laying around? Like, after he got the nanite suit? I thought that was just a necklace that formed the costume and helmet. Or am I misremembering?

The M'Baku thing at the end, showing up to Shuri's queen confirmation ceremony... was this just a throwaway thing, or are we to take from this that M'Baku would be crowned king because she didn't bother to show up for it and his challenge would have to be accepted by the council or whatever and Shuri would be forfeiting her claim by default to him? Not really clear.

Lastly, it's a little funny that this whole movie was rewritten, produced, shot, released in between Aquaman 1 releasing and Aquaman 2 coming out... and Aquaman 2 won't even come out until next December. Next December!!! And this was a pretty f***ing big movie.

[CyberCubed]

I'm seeing this movie in theaters later today since someone bought a ticket for me, I hope it's not as bad as you guys are making it sound. :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

I'm seeing this movie in theaters later today since someone bought a ticket for me, I hope it's not as bad as you guys are making it sound. :lol:

I mean if it is, at least you didn't pay for it.

[Bahamut810]

* Didn't get a big reading on the woke giger counter, really. Though there it was, of course, what's now becoming a trope of the "3 second lesbian relationship embrace/kiss by third tier supporting cast," usually packed in near the end of a movie. Easily cuttable in case China, etc., but you'll get the shares and articles over here and so forth.

Did they keep up the wakandan racism in this one? In the first movie there were a few times when they made statements that if the races were different there would have been a huge uproar over (like when Suri said "did you bring me another broken white boy to fix?")

[Andrew NDB]

Did they keep up the wakandan racism in this one? In the first movie there were a few times when they made statements that if the races were different there would have been a huge uproar over (like when Suri said "did you bring me another broken white boy to fix?")

Not really. Just one line about "my favorite colonist" in regard to the Hobbit actor guy.

[CyberCubed]

I mean if it is, at least you didn't pay for it.

Either way the movie is still over 2 hours and 40 minutes or so, so it's a good chunk of my time and I have work tomorrow. Either way I virtually never pay for movies out of my own money, so this wouldn't matter either way.

The only other movie I saw in theaters this year was The Batman movie in March, and again someone paid for my ticket. I honestly can't remember the last time I paid to watch a movie.

[IMJ]

Either way the movie is still over 2 hours and 40 minutes or so, so it's a good chunk of my time and I have work tomorrow. Either way I virtually never pay for movies out of my own money, so this wouldn't matter either way.

The only other movie I saw in theaters this year was The Batman movie in March, and again someone paid for my ticket. I honestly can't remember the last time I paid to watch a movie.

It matters because they got your money via a paid ticket. It doesn't matter who buys the ticket.

[Coola Yagami]

Least they won't get my money. Zero interest to see it.

[IMJ]

Least they won't get my money. Zero interest to see it.

Me neither. Which is so weird because I saw every Blade flick in the theater multiple times. Must be "the racism". :roll:

[Andrew NDB]

Me neither. Which is so weird because I saw every Blade flick in the theater multiple times. Must be "the racism". :roll:

You saw Blade 3 in theaters more than once? Now I know you're lying. ;)

[CyberCubed]

Saw it. The queen, the mother of Shuri, had some amazing scenes in this movie. The actress really gave it her all and I was impressed. No idea who she is but the woman was great.

Shuri's actress was also surprisingly good in the movie. Namor was meh but it also a decent movie

[ranger_scout]

I went to see the film in 3D yesterday with two of my best friends. I honestly thought they did a very good job considering how they had to continue the story without Chadwick Boseman. I thought that they could've done what they did with Carrie Fisher in Star Wars: The Rise of Skywalker by repurposing unused footage from a previous film and then having his character die later, but the beginning of the movie handled his death the best way they could. The women in this film really shined. I'm hoping to see it again over the Thanksgiving break.

[Andrew NDB]

but the beginning of the movie handled his death the best way they could.

Absolutely not. And they handled it -- that scene -- in the worst, most inappropriate way imaginable. That'd be like if Fast & The Furious 8 began with Dom in a hospital waiting room, hearing that Brian just freshly crashed his sports car into a wall and burned to death in the resulting fire. It's like audiences already processed that with the actor... now let's have them do that same exact again, on screen with actors, for an encore?

Imagine if Robert Pattinson died of a stroke tomorrow. So let's kill off Bruce Wayne then at the beginning of The Batman II with a stroke, then make bring in Dick Grayson as Batman because hey, there's been other Batmans in the comics, right? Do you see how insensitive and outright stupid that is?

[Coola Yagami]

Absolutely not. And they handled it -- that scene -- in the worst, most inappropriate way imaginable. That'd be like if Fast & The Furious 8 began with Dom in a hospital waiting room, hearing that Brian just freshly crashed his sports car into a wall and burned to death in the resulting fire. It's like audiences already processed that with the actor... now let's have them do that again, for an encore?

Imagine if Robert Pattinson died of a stroke tomorrow. So let's kill off Bruce Wayne then at the beginning of The Batman II with a stroke, then make bring in Dick Grayson as Batman because hey, there's been other Batmans in the comics, right? Do you see how insensitive and outright stupid that is?

Wait, so they killed off T'Challa of the exact same thing Chadwick died from in real life??? That's ****ing terrible. Wtf Disney Marvel. **** you.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

No, they never specifically state what he died of, only that he was gravely ill, and died literally while Shuri was working on the cure, which she finds(possibly) but he dies(off screen) just as she is about to go take it to him, so she never gets a chance to see if it works. I honestly thought it was well done, and very respectful. They made a huge point of having his funeral be the very next scene, and that made it even more impactful.

[Andrew NDB]

Wait, so they killed off T'Challa of the exact same thing Chadwick died from in real life??? That's ****ing terrible. Wtf Disney Marvel. **** you.

A mystery disease that'd he'd been living with for a while, enough to know his death was coming, so he was able to say his goodbyes and make preparations before dying on a hospital bed surrounded by loved ones.

You know, just like Chadwick. Minus the mystery part. Was it colon cancer? We don't know, but it might as well have been and the clear motive was to mirror what happened to Chadwick.

[MsMarvelDuckie]

It could have just as easily been something like COVID instead of cancer. If you're that sick, you will probably have a pretty good idea you're dying, and say goodbyes, though the only hint he did that was the remark about "preparing us for his death", from his gf. Which he could have also done way ahead of time as a "just in case". I had no problems with it.

[Coola Yagami]

I guess the real problem is none of that should have happened at all. Just recast and go with the original script.

Andrew gave the perfect example. Imagine killing BatPat off screen in the beginning of The Batman II.

[Andrew NDB]

It's like it's grasping at virtue, yet at the same time and with the same hand they're saying/admitting Black Panther is a lesser character than Batman so they can just do whatever. Because of COURSE they wouldn't do that with Batman and Pattinson. It'd be a year of "RIP Pattinson" and then we move on with a new Bruce. Which of COURSE is the only correct way to go.

The only difference with Black Panther is that they had a lot of options here. Namely, again, with just setting it during the Blip. If they want to do a "we miss you, Chadwick!" thing, there you go. Fill in those 5 years, because those Wakandans were surely grieving during all 5 of them. What the f*** happened in Wakanda during those, beyond that? The movie in theaters right now doesn't say anything about that. But yeah, make a movie of that. At the end, show T'Challa begin to un-ash before he joins the final fight in Endgame and smash cut to black. Don't even have to show his face. Then 3 years later in Black Panther 3 they can recast whatever. Lots of time to heal, blah blah, and there we go. No creepy smiley kid in the mid credits needed who will never be Black Panther anyway.

[AquaParade]

I actually enjoyed that. At least on the first watch.

I could probably be more critical but I’m just happy to genuinely enjoy an MCU project for the first time since… Endgame? There is a lot I love about No Way Home, but it’s a frustrating waste of potential at the same time. I did like WandaVision too.

This was moody and somber. I liked that. We didn’t have to have a joke thrown in every two seconds. Maybe every five seconds but that’s something. The music also worked for me throughout for the most part. Not necessarily the licensed soundtrack stuff, which was fine, but the score was complimentary and interesting.

Also felt like there was less computer animation than other recent Marvel projects, which made it easier on the eyes. There was at least one very obvious green-screen, in a shot of M’Baku and a few other warriors standing (on a roof?) in Wakanda, but at least that stood out to me instead of blending in with the rest of the gobbledygook.

In terms of phase four, my favorite stories - and the only ones I’ll likely ever watch again - would be WandaVision, No Way Home, and Black Panther. That’s mostly it. There were smaller elements I liked in some of the other projects, like seeing US Agent develop as a character in “Falcon & Winter Soldier”, but they were duds overall.
My biggest letdown for this phase was Moon Knight. I thought it’d have a tone more similar to Netflix Daredevil, when in reality it felt more like “That’s so Raven”, albeit with great acting from a wasted cast.

I think the next phase will be an improvement.

[Andrew NDB]

My biggest letdown for this phase was Moon Knight. I thought it’d have a tone more similar to Netflix Daredevil, when in reality it felt more like “That’s so Raven”, albeit with great acting from a wasted cast.

Very disappointing. In retrospect, it seemed to exist so as only to bring us "Egypt's first female superhero." Because it sure wasn't interested in much Moon Knight.

[Jester]

I'm watching a YouTube video about other people who have dawned the Black Panther persona and it showed a scene from the first Black Panther were T'challa was presumed dead because of his battle with Killmonger and it made me think, "Good Lord how many times has T'challa been missing presumed dead?"

I mean he died in the ritual combat with Killmonger, he was blipped out of existence for 5 years, and then he died sometime between Avengers Endgame and this movie.

[IMJ]

I mean he died in the ritual combat with Killmonger, he was blipped out of existence for 5 years, and then he died sometime between Avengers Endgame and this movie.

I just think that long-term they should've placed this sequel during the blip and then by the time they get around to movie 3 they could've recast him.

Look I loved, loved, loved the Avengers buildup, Downey as Iron Man, etc. I was seeing things that as a kid I wished for but never thought they'd do. Thanos. The IG.

But now that is done and they've mired themselves in continuity. It works in comics for a variety of reasons but in film they just need to get around recasting these things. We could've been on Iron Man 3 by now like a James Bond franchise.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm watching a YouTube video about other people who have dawned the Black Panther persona and it showed a scene from the first Black Panther were T'challa was presumed dead because of his battle with Killmonger and it made me think, "Good Lord how many times has T'challa been missing presumed dead?"

I mean he died in the ritual combat with Killmonger, he was blipped out of existence for 5 years, and then he died sometime between Avengers Endgame and this movie.

That's a pretty good point to add. I forgot all about that.

I just think that long-term they should've placed this sequel during the blip and then by the time they get around to movie 3 they could've recast him.

Look I loved, loved, loved the Avengers buildup, Downey as Iron Man, etc. I was seeing things that as a kid I wished for but never thought they'd do. Thanos. The IG.

The only thing that kills me is that shouldn't have been the end of "The plan." Or at least the planning. This is Marvel. Plus they've had full-bore access to X-Men and Fanastic Four for how many years now and haven't done anything with that?

I know things take time creatively, but I just know the delays are because of people in boardrooms who can't agree on the most ridiculous of things.

But now that is done and they've mired themselves in continuity. It works in comics for a variety of reasons but in film they just need to get around recasting these things. We could've been on Iron Man 3 by now like a James Bond franchise.

Of course! There should always be a Bruce Banner around. Always a Tony Stark. Always a Steve Rogers. They seem to have slowly admitted they do not want the perennial James Bond pre-Casino Royale model. They want legacy characters forevermore, and good luck with that.

[Coola Yagami]

Of course. When people think 'The Avengers', they think of Steve, Tony, Banner, etc, not their wannabe replacements. Maybe fighting alongside them, but not outright replacing them. They're even going to go into Kang the Conqueror and Secret Wars with the wrong set of heroes.

I mean killing off Tony and aging up Steve worked in End Game because it was meant to be THE END, the final movie. You ruin it with more movies afterwards. It would be like if they made a 4th Nolan Batman movie, it would ruin the finality of Bruce's sacrifice and retirement at the end of Dark Knight Rises.

[CyberCubed]

Well that's the problem with live-action compared to comics or cartoons, the actors age in real life. In comics or cartoons everyone can stay at the same age for decades if they want, in real life they're on a time scale at how old these actors are.

[ProphetofGanja]

Well that's the problem with live-action compared to comics or cartoons, the actors age in real life. In comics or cartoons everyone can stay at the same age for decades if they want, in real life they're on a time scale at how old these actors are.

Right. It's kind-of silly to treat live-action movies that are part of an interconnected cinematic universe the same as comic books where characters are ageless and perennial

[Coola Yagami]

Well that's the problem with live-action compared to comics or cartoons, the actors age in real life. In comics or cartoons everyone can stay at the same age for decades if they want, in real life they're on a time scale at how old these actors are.

And this why you recast.

[robertfiduciary]

Cheo Hodari Coker (creator of Luke Cage) made a great case on Twitter as to why recasting Chadwick for this movie would have been the wrong move.

And you know what? He's right.

Definitely worth reading.

[neatoman]

Right. It's kind-of silly to treat live-action movies that are part of an interconnected cinematic universe the same as comic books where characters are ageless and perennial

I've suspected that the recent emphasis on the Multiverse was a decision made in anticipation that they may have to reboot fairly soon. Basically, that there will eventually be a stop to this current line of movies, either due to diminishing returns or just the fabric of all this just falling apart backstage. For now the movies are still making money and for now they still tend to get decent reviews but it's pretty clear that it's not gonna last forever, and I'd say they don't seem to know what they're doing since concluding the thing with the Infinity Stones.

Like sure, Iron Man, Captain America and Natasha can be replaced by Iron Heart, Falcon and Yelena... For now. But what about later on? Are they in turn going to be replaced by Morgan Stark, Patriot and Claire Voyant? And they too by Mainframe, Trenton Craft and Monica Chang? There is a reason reboots are so common among the adaptations of comics, you can only go so far before it gets kinda too weird. And that's just the need for character replacements, it's not even counting the weird crap they've done with the plot.

So if they reboot with the multiverse in place, they might be telling a brand new story with brand new versions of the characters, but it does allow the MCU versions of the characters to pop up once in a while for the sake of nostalgia.

[Andrew NDB]

Urgh. Probably that's exactly the direction they'll go in. They can kind of craft their own Ultimate Universe to focus on when the time is "right."

[Jester]

Cheo Hodari Coker (creator of Luke Cage) made a great case on Twitter as to why recasting Chadwick for this movie would have been the wrong move.

And you know what? He's right.

Definitely worth reading.
Here it is all spliced together:
Cheo Hodari Coker: Wakanda Forever isn't as good as Black Panther....it's better. It's The Godfather Part II of Marvel Movies. You won't fully appreciate the full accomplishment and possibilities until you have the ability, on streaming, to watch them back to back like you would a series.
The maturity and poise Ryan showed to beat back all you RecastT'challa mutha****as is astounding. He melded poetic grief with real grief...and in an astounding way made Wakanda emotionally real for the audience in ways thought impossible in me-now fanboy socialmedia era.
SPOILERS ahead....so please if you haven't seen Wakanda Forever, leave now....
When King T'Chaka died in Civil War, the grief was dramatic. You knew that T'Challa was sad because it was his father, but you didn't really know the character personally, so it was arbitrary. He too assumed the mantle under the mandate of revenge, but this time, for the audience it was different. They got to know T'Challa and his family and see the dynamic up close...And so when Chadwick died without telling ANYBODY he was sick, everyone was bereft....
(And how do we know he didn't tell anybody? They wouldn't have cast him had they known about his illness from an insurance/force majure standpoint alone....)
What people don't understand, from the inside, when you have the right cast, they're family. Every time the SouthLAnd or Luke Cage principals got together for press or for the first table read, it was damn near a family reunion....the success binds you together because....
...You remember before and after...So the cast and filmmakers found out in real time when he died...and just.....wow.....
...and you're left with a choice. You can recast. You can elevate existing characters and expand...or you shut down and walk away....
...There were plenty of easy, obvious choices. You could easily have done a Terminator 2 with Killmonger, have him saved by the Atlanteans when he was buried at sea...or take him out prison or cyrofreeze since we never saw him does...but that's simple comic book ****...
What's more courageous is to say okay, let's deal with the grieving process through our characters, but let's also make this a commentary on colonialization. We've seen what the white man has done in the name of gold, oil, diamonds, hell, even bananas and pinabpples..but vibranium?
So you make a family drama, political thriller, socio-economic treatise under the guise of a eulogy and Jedi mindtrick them to make both the blackest and brownest movie of all time without sacrificing its commercial aspirations.....and you pull it off...
...what got me was just watching Angela Bassett as a Queen clapback at France and the US alone was worth the price of admission....But then it keeps building......SPOILER....
Namor (No Amor....genius!) Or Dark Waterproof Obama as I call him...is so malevolently charming and such an adroit politician, you truly understand his point of view. And then him and Shuri have this weird chemistry...But...That ain't happen....and...
...then, after the unforeseeable happens..AGAIN...and the youngster who thumbed her nose at tradition is the only one left...the movie takes an even bigger turn....
(Spoiler)...that cameo was the best I've seen since James Can walked through the door carrying presents and introducing his sister to his friend Carlo. The way he has that character embedded in his soul is mindblowing...
...and then her suit is an homage to him and NOT her brother? That was like wow....
All to say, everyone earned their level up, particularly when you contrast both films together...it's amazing...
JFK and X and MLK and RFK weren't recast. Because that **** was real. And by not recasting Chad, the craziest thing is that it makes losing T'Challa and the pain of it more real...which strangely, if handled correctly, makes the franchise immortal....
Because now, beyond the comic book storylines, Wakanda Forever can get deep into Game Of Thrones level fictional royal intrigue that can constantly recast and expand for the next few decades...past and present....so it is forever...

[neatoman]

Urgh. Probably that's exactly the direction they'll go in. They can kind of craft their own Ultimate Universe to focus on when the time is "right."

Well, they've already acknowledged that the MCU isn't the first live-action adaptation by having a direct crossover with the previous iterations of Spider-Man, a pseudo-crossover with the FOX X-Men movies in MoM and an actual crossover coming up with Deadpool 3.

I know it's totally stupid but... Let's bring it on, man! Let's be real here, Phase 4 sucks and I'm not sure 5 or 6 will save the direction of the series. The mere fact that I know MCU Spider-Man is literally the third out four theatrical versions of Spider-Man (five if you count the Nicholas Hammond version's weird dip into theatres) and that previous versions of Blade, Captain America, Fantastic Four, X-Men, Hulk, Daredevil, Howard the Duck and Man-Thing means a reboot doesn't really rub me the wrong way.

Hell, do some crazy multiverse war movie to cap this stupid **** off. Let's have Nick Cage's Ghost Rider duke it out with Jared Leto's Morbius while Dolph Lundgren's Punisher has a shootout with Wesley Snipes' Blade. Hell, bring in Tommy Lee Jones' and Will Smith's characters from Men in Black, have them react to how crazy **** gets when it's not being contained like in their world.
lrzKT-dFUjE

[Leo656]

Here it is all spliced together:
Cheo Hodari Coker: Wakanda Forever isn't as good as Black Panther....it's better. It's The Godfather Part II of Marvel Movies. You won't fully appreciate the full accomplishment and possibilities until you have the ability, on streaming, to watch them back to back like you would a series.
The maturity and poise Ryan showed to beat back all you RecastT'challa mutha****as is astounding. He melded poetic grief with real grief...and in an astounding way made Wakanda emotionally real for the audience in ways thought impossible in me-now fanboy socialmedia era.
SPOILERS ahead....so please if you haven't seen Wakanda Forever, leave now....
When King T'Chaka died in Civil War, the grief was dramatic. You knew that T'Challa was sad because it was his father, but you didn't really know the character personally, so it was arbitrary. He too assumed the mantle under the mandate of revenge, but this time, for the audience it was different. They got to know T'Challa and his family and see the dynamic up close...And so when Chadwick died without telling ANYBODY he was sick, everyone was bereft....
(And how do we know he didn't tell anybody? They wouldn't have cast him had they known about his illness from an insurance/force majure standpoint alone....)
What people don't understand, from the inside, when you have the right cast, they're family. Every time the SouthLAnd or Luke Cage principals got together for press or for the first table read, it was damn near a family reunion....the success binds you together because....
...You remember before and after...So the cast and filmmakers found out in real time when he died...and just.....wow.....
...and you're left with a choice. You can recast. You can elevate existing characters and expand...or you shut down and walk away....
...There were plenty of easy, obvious choices. You could easily have done a Terminator 2 with Killmonger, have him saved by the Atlanteans when he was buried at sea...or take him out prison or cyrofreeze since we never saw him does...but that's simple comic book ****...
What's more courageous is to say okay, let's deal with the grieving process through our characters, but let's also make this a commentary on colonialization. We've seen what the white man has done in the name of gold, oil, diamonds, hell, even bananas and pinabpples..but vibranium?
So you make a family drama, political thriller, socio-economic treatise under the guise of a eulogy and Jedi mindtrick them to make both the blackest and brownest movie of all time without sacrificing its commercial aspirations.....and you pull it off...
...what got me was just watching Angela Bassett as a Queen clapback at France and the US alone was worth the price of admission....But then it keeps building......SPOILER....
Namor (No Amor....genius!) Or Dark Waterproof Obama as I call him...is so malevolently charming and such an adroit politician, you truly understand his point of view. And then him and Shuri have this weird chemistry...But...That ain't happen....and...
...then, after the unforeseeable happens..AGAIN...and the youngster who thumbed her nose at tradition is the only one left...the movie takes an even bigger turn....
(Spoiler)...that cameo was the best I've seen since James Can walked through the door carrying presents and introducing his sister to his friend Carlo. The way he has that character embedded in his soul is mindblowing...
...and then her suit is an homage to him and NOT her brother? That was like wow....
All to say, everyone earned their level up, particularly when you contrast both films together...it's amazing...
JFK and X and MLK and RFK weren't recast. Because that **** was real. And by not recasting Chad, the craziest thing is that it makes losing T'Challa and the pain of it more real...which strangely, if handled correctly, makes the franchise immortal....
Because now, beyond the comic book storylines, Wakanda Forever can get deep into Game Of Thrones level fictional royal intrigue that can constantly recast and expand for the next few decades...past and present....so it is forever...

Well that was a whole lotta nothin'. Also, SUPER hard to read since this dude I never heard of apparently has a beef with Proper Grammar.

Anyways. Characters are bigger than the actors they portray and this "Only ______ can ever play _____!" sh*t is borderline necrophilia in cases like this. Like okay, he was a good dude, I guess, and people liked him. It's still beyond stupid to try and "process grief" over a very real person dying by mourning a fictional character they also happened to play.

Don't try and dress it up to be bigger than it is; "We're sad our buddy died, so we'd rather derail a franchise as our way of mourning him." It's a choice. You can do that. You can also just as well Not. I get it either way; some bands break up when one of the founding members dies, sometimes they replace them and move on. I don't feel incredibly strong about either, but the whole moralizing bit is where you lose me. Pragmatically, Andrew is correct that from a business AND creative standpoint this was the dumbest thing they could have chosen to do.

BUT, it's their prerogative. I just don't think it's a move that puts them on any sort of moral high ground and it's silly that some people pretend it does.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Racial segregation is back, boys and girls:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11442473/UCSB-Black-Student-Union-holds-free-Wakanda-Forever-screening-asks-white-students-NOT-attend.html

[Coola Yagami]

Racial segregation is back, boys and girls:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11442473/UCSB-Black-Student-Union-holds-free-Wakanda-Forever-screening-asks-white-students-NOT-attend.html

That is so much racist segregation ********. Luckily the movie sucks and isn't worth anyone's time to actually 'fight for the right' to see it.

I wonder if the non-white rule applies to Hispanics.

I remember a bit of that ******** with the first movie. I actually loved the first one and saw it twice. I mean despite all the marketing and such trying to paint it as this 'great black moment' but I just saw it as the next big MCU movie and more of Black Panther that got a good showing in Civil War. Most of these ****ers never even read a Marvel comic.

I was halfway worried about being harassed or jumped at the movie theater, but it was pretty normal. Like it wasn't a 95% black audience with everyone giving me and why (at the time) white friends the stink eye for two hours. It was a regular multi-cultured audience.

[Cowabung-Gal]

I wonder if the non-white rule applies to Hispanics.

Well, if you’re wondering why there weren’t any subtitles during the Spanish-speaking scenes in the newest West Side Story movie, it’s because Spielberg didn’t want to disrespect the “Latinx” community.

:lol:

And they wonder why the movie flopped.

[Coola Yagami]

Well, if you’re wondering why there weren’t any subtitles during the Spanish-speaking scenes in the newest West Side Story movie, it’s because Spielberg didn’t want to disrespect the “Latinx” community.

:lol:

And they wonder why the movie flopped.

*le sigh*

So incredibly stupid.

[Andrew NDB]

https://comicbookmovie.com/namor_the_submariner/black-panther-wakanda-forever-producer-confirms-right-issues-with-universal-means-no-namor-solo-movie-a198045#gs.4ce5.jsi6bu

Huh, so there's rights issues with Namor, same as Hulk. He can never get a solo movie.

[neatoman]

https://comicbookmovie.com/namor_the_submariner/black-panther-wakanda-forever-producer-confirms-right-issues-with-universal-means-no-namor-solo-movie-a198045#gs.4ce5.jsi6bu

Huh, so there's rights issues with Namor, same as Hulk. He can never get a solo movie.

When Namor goes public domain in 11 years, will this still apply? Like it seems pretty silly to stick to these rules considering everyone outside of Disney and Universal will just be able to use the character however they please anyway.

[Dpooly84]

Just watched this again, and man I love this movie. Rip Chadwick, he was such an amazing actor but I feel like they really made lemonade here. Ryan Coogler is an awesome director that pays attention to the small details that engulf you, next level world building. Also another fire soundtrack.

[Andrew NDB]

Just watched this again, and man I love this movie. Rip Chadwick, he was such an amazing actor but I feel like they really made lemonade here. Ryan Coogler is an awesome director that pays attention to the small details that engulf you, next level world building. Also another fire soundtrack.

Soundtrack was lit. Coogler is a great director. The rest? Naw.

[ZariusTwo]

Just watched this again, and man I love this movie. Rip Chadwick, he was such an amazing actor but I feel like they really made lemonade here. Ryan Coogler is an awesome director that pays attention to the small details that engulf you, next level world building. Also another fire soundtrack.

It was piss mate. Walked out of the theatre an hour in. That boring.

[Dpooly84]

It's okay to have different opinions, that's fair. I understand it, but this movie is legit. I've never walked out of a movie I paid to see, I'm to smart for that lol might have fallen asleep during boring movies but never just upped and left. I guess I pay a little more attention to what I'm going to see.

[IMJ]

I remember thinking that Boseman was regal and awesome in Civil War - he stole the scenes he was in and they really jazzed me up for Black Panther.

And then the left politicized Black Panther and it took me out of it completely.
Then they went on about "The FIRST BLACK super-hero!!!" Bull$#!(
Then they went on about Jordan's Killmonger, who when I finally saw the movie felt like a walking cliche to me.
Then the special effects were awful and it made me realize that the movie was all-hype yet the studio didn't have the confidence in it to actually spend money on making it look good.

And I really wanted to like Black Panther because that character is easily one of the coolest Avengers - a unique cross between Iron Man and Batman. But society turned it to $#!(.

His screen time in Infinity War and Endgame was awesome though. But between Boseman being gone and all of the B.S. I listed above I had no interest in driving even a dime into the second one.

But societal and studio B.S. is Black Panther's problem on film. Chadwick was amazing - that guy is a young person's superhero the way that Christopher Reeve was as Superman for me as a kid.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I still have no interest in seeing this movie. I didn't bother when it was in theaters. I enjoyed the original movie well enough but without Boseman, I don't see how this could be enjoyable. Even if I wanted to later down the road, I don't have Disney+ and refuse to buy this on DVD/Blue-Ray.

[Andrew NDB]

This is one of those movies where I kind of convinced myself I mostly liked it overall but as more and more time goes on, the less favorably I look back at it.