Rittenhouse/ self defense [Archive] - The Technodrome Forums

mrmaczaps

11-16-2021, 06:33 PM

Someone pointing a gun at you loses the guarantee of their still being alive. Similarly someone beating you with a skateboard, particularly someone who sees you with a gun.

Why not? Let's ask the others there why they were there that night. We already know the answer for Rittenhouse.

Only because its irrelevant why he was there... or that he shouldn't have been there or not. As in, he was there, now discuss his right (and ours) to self defense... to not be chased down by a homicidal lunatic that turned out to be a child raping pedophile or two relative abusing convicted felons (& the 4th guy that jump kicked Kyle, turned out to also be a career criminal...)...

Lets say that shooting rosenbaum was even remotely in question (its not, cuz evidence shows his hand was on Kyle's gun & trying to take someone's firearm is always justification for self defense...), this still leaves the fact that Kyle's next instinct was to disengage and run away from the angry mob towards police and therefore he cannot be seen as instigating anything else BUT self defense against his next three attackers.

Carrying a firearm is not "premeditated" anything as they prosecutor tried to claim... I carry daily. Sometimes more than one firearm. For my safety cuz I'm not going to outrun anyone trying to attack me...

Mostly I was curious to see who hates themselves so bad they'd defend four criminals that attacked a minor... who was armed. Lol

joe-eyeball

11-16-2021, 06:34 PM

mrmaczaps

11-16-2021, 07:03 PM

If the jury follows the laws of the state then they MUST acquit him. There is no legal case to be made otherwise. The only possible reason I can think of that could result in finding him guilty is the jurors would be worried about public backlash for finding him not guilty.

And that is currently happening.... at least two jurors have somehow made it known they are concerned about being attacked for voting not guilty... the judge should just throw out the case with prejudice, not guilty on all counts.

joe-eyeball

11-16-2021, 07:50 PM

And that is currently happening.... at least two jurors have somehow made it known they are concerned about being attacked for voting not guilty... the judge should just throw out the case with prejudice, not guilty on all counts.

Pretty much! The judge should overturn the verdict if it were to come back not guilty because the jurors would have clearly not have reached their decision based on facts and the laws of that state.

1987

11-16-2021, 08:10 PM

“those poor blm/antifa thugs, they just wanted to peacefully protest for racial justice by pushing a flaming dumpster into a gas station until that terrorist got in the way and murdered them”… that’s how the leftist commies view this case.

this is about a communist mayor, a communist police dept, and a communist district attorney in a blue suburb in a red state, making an example out of someone that dared stand up against the communist political violence and intimidation.

the commies are hoping that Kyle gets locked up in prison as a lesson that no one will be allowed to fight back against communists trying to take over America.

that’s why they’re painting the real terrorists as the victims and vice versa.

will they riot again? probably. it’s looking like Kyle will be acquitted on all charges and rightfully so, but who knows, there is alot of jury intimidation going on. commies on twitter already calling for Kenosha to burn to the ground if he is acquitted. blm/antifa seriously gonna riot over a 17 year old that defended himself against 3 white guys.

Andrew NDB

11-16-2021, 08:14 PM

joe-eyeball

11-16-2021, 08:37 PM

I don't think it was even ever about the prosecution winning the case. It seems largely about scaring people away from self defense. Like, even if you have a gun pointed at you and you kill the guy... you might just come an asshair away from life in prison! So better to stay away from the peaceful protesters and let them do their thing, burn homes, businesses while you wait for the social workers to arrive, etc..

This is 100% correct. This case is more of an indictment on armed self defense than anything else! Hell, I have talked to people that actually believe that if he is found not guilty it will cause a tidal wave of vigilante justice and bring back the Wild West days. There are so many people completely out of touch with reality. It’s both amusing and scary at the same time!

Bahamut810

11-16-2021, 09:11 PM

I have been watching the trial daily to try to keep up. If he is guilty the 2nd means nothing...this should be appealed as far as nessessary.

Coola Yagami

11-16-2021, 11:43 PM

I'm probably not informed enough about it, but I mean, if you're dumb enough to chase a guy with a gun, you kinda deserve what's coming to you.

From what I see from the Left, there's a apparently a pic of the kid hanging with 'The Proud Boys' doing hand symbols so everyone is acting like he's a white supremacist and if he goes free it's a win for white supremacy.

Similar to the Floyd case, the Left is acting like they're gonna raise literal hell if he gets off. That's not justice, that's forcing their hand to get the verdict you want through threats of violence.

Andrew NDB

11-16-2021, 11:57 PM

It's pretty hysterical. A white supremacist based on him carrying a gun... and he only ended up shooting two white guys who attacked him, one of which a convicted pedophile?

Coola Yagami

11-17-2021, 12:10 AM

yeah and I got the usual wackos posting stuff on FB like 'Rittenhouse is a murderer, if you don't agree with me, just unfriend me right now'.

Sumac

11-17-2021, 12:53 AM

In a normal country all this trash that threats violence, if KR is acquitted should be shut down. Since US right now is not a normal country, I am afraid they are given too much power for too little investment.

I personally want to see those ****wads trying to start **** only to immediately being **** down by cops.

Vegita-San

11-17-2021, 07:35 AM

It's pretty hysterical. A white supremacist based on him carrying a gun... and he only ended up shooting two white guys who attacked him, one of which a convicted pedophile?

who where apparently rioting for the 'lefts' cause to begin with.

the only people who seem to do violence in riots are the left, that's why I have a hard time to believe the capitol riots where all 'trump supporters'.

it fits their mo too well.

I never even heard of this case until some YT channel got shut down simply for stating the facts. from what I gather, it was another BLM riot and this kid was supposedly just trying to defend himself. although what he was doing with what looked like a high powered rifle might be another matter.

Bahamut810

11-17-2021, 11:24 AM

From what I see from the Left, there's a apparently a pic of the kid hanging with 'The Proud Boys' doing hand symbols so everyone is acting like he's a white supremacist and if he goes free it's a win for white supremacy.

That happened long after the event. He is a minor celebrity in some circles...that's not his fault.

It's pretty hysterical. A white supremacist based on him carrying a gun... and he only ended up shooting two white guys who attacked him, one of which a convicted pedophile?

He shot 3 individuals, 2 of whom where killed. The first death (Rosenbaum) being a convicted child molester five times over is a non-point in the case because there was no way for Rittenhouse to know that.

The cast for the prosecution at this point is essentially "Did you see what he was wearing, he asked for this!". They need to proved that he provoked the initial attack and the only thing they can fall back on is the fact that the gun he had may have provoked Rosenbaum.

The jury being hung out of fear should call for a mistrial with prejudice. This happening right now means that he will never be able to get a fair trial...because Activists from the Left will harass and attack jurors.

Andrew NDB

11-17-2021, 11:30 AM

He shot 3 individuals, 2 of whom where killed. The first death (Rosenbaum) being a convicted child molester five times over is a non-point in the case because there was no way for Rittenhouse to know that.

No, no way for him to know that but perhaps a valid argument for the further neutralizing of him, as given his penchant for child molestation he could have been trying to rape Kyle, who was a child at the time. Like, is Kyle supposed to wait until he's actually being penetrated to be in the right?

Which one was the one who was screaming at him, calling him an N-word repeatedly (and again, this, but Kyle is the white supremacist? seems like he was the one who stamped out some white supremacy that night!)? The dead one, or the bicep vaporizer guy?

Bahamut810

11-17-2021, 11:47 AM

mrmaczaps

11-17-2021, 01:40 PM

although what he was doing with what looked like a high powered rifle might be another matter.

Its an AR15 which is not even remotely "high powered"... it uses .223 ammo which isn't much larger in size than a .22 which is for kids...more powder, but almost same size round. :tlol:

mrmaczaps

11-17-2021, 01:47 PM

Rosenbaum (the first death of two) was the one screaming that...and threatening people and in general “fronting” and a king aggressive through the night.

The second death I think had a felony...but he had a skateboard and bashed Rittenhouse on the head and tried to take the rifle when he was shot (I think he had a hole in his hand in a direction proving that if people didn’t trust video).

Bicept guy was a domestic abuser with a felony who was concealed carrying and had his pistol aimed at Rittenhouses head when he was shot.

Rosenbaum was shot through the hand, because he was grabbing at the rifle too. His conviction 5x over of peddling small children should matter, even if Kyle couldn't know at the time, he was saying "shoot me, n****" and "fvck you" over and over... and Kyle stated Rosenbaum said he would kill Kyle at least twice before chasing him down.

All four people who attacked Kyle were/are convicted felons. Gaige, arm spaghetti, even stated under oath, that Kyle only shot him after Gaige pointed his (illegal) firearm at Kyle. Felons are prohibited people and cannot carry. Also, I believe it was Gaige who fired the first shot prior to Kyle needing to shoot Rosenbaum.

I'm guessing the folks who think Kyle murdered these criminals are just avoiding this thread. I'm curious to know how anyone can think this is anything but self defense...

Andrew NDB

11-17-2021, 02:12 PM

And apparently it was ruled perfectly legal and OK for him to carry a rifle such as the one he had, where he did and when he did. So the whole "but he wasn't supposed to carry a gun there and especially ACROSS STATE LINES!!!" is completely null and void.

It's a very strange hill to die on for libtards and I think they're increasingly realizing this. On the one hand they feel strongly about it because they're terrified of guns and want to get them outta here so we can get one big step closer to socialist utopia... but on the other, this incident really doesn't fit any of the race-based narratives they've established for shootings, despite how hard they really, really try to make it fit. The general hope is probably that most people will just see an article with Kyle Rittenhouse's picture and a headline and go, "Ugh... damn white supremacist Trumpers!" and not bother to click or read any further. At this point.

mrmaczaps

11-17-2021, 02:16 PM

And apparently it was ruled perfectly legal and OK for him to carry a rifle such as the one he had, where he did and when he did. So the whole "but he wasn't supposed to carry a gun there and especially ACROSS STATE LINES!!!" is completely null and void.

Exactly. Not to mention, if Kyle had not been carrying, he'd likely have been raped/killed by Rosenbaum & his history would matter then... all this rioting that was allowed by democrats over a dead criminal.

Leo656

11-17-2021, 02:27 PM

What a f*cking hero that George Floyd was. Hope his supporters are proud of all the violence wrought in his wake after they made him a martyr.

Imagine, if Floyd was home reading his daughter a book instead of out passing fake bills and getting high on dope, NONE of this ever could have happened.

Maybe we should stop putting junkies up on pedestals and the rest of it might just take care of itself. Worth thinking about.

Anyway, yeah, if the legal system does its job then Rittenhouse should walk.

Bahamut810

11-17-2021, 05:53 PM

Kyle couldn't know at the time, he was saying "shoot me, n****" and "fvck you" over and over... and Kyle stated Rosenbaum said he would kill Kyle at least twice before chasing him down.

This is one half of the big reason all this should be over already. He established his motive to attack and kill everyone in Rittenhouse's group. The second half is that he went to enact that violence by trying to steal the gun.

All four people who attacked Kyle were/are convicted felons. Gaige, arm spaghetti, even stated under oath, that Kyle only shot him after Gaige pointed his (illegal) firearm at Kyle. Felons are prohibited people and cannot carry. Also, I believe it was Gaige who fired the first shot prior to Kyle needing to shoot Rosenbaum.

It was another party, the guy (I think his name is Grouscroitz or something like that) that tried to distract Rittenhouse while Rosenbaum came from behind, that shot the first shot in the air that caused him to turn around.

It was not just he couldnt carry from felony, his concealed carry permit was expired meaning that even if he could carry he couldn't conceal carry...which he was.

if Kyle had not been carrying, he'd likely have been raped/killed by Rosenbaum & his history would matter then...

In all seriousness, I don't think he would have sexually assaulted him. 'Just' normally assaulted or killed him. In all joking-ness, Kyle was too old.

Bahamut810

11-17-2021, 05:55 PM

On topic:

lOUrwTEZAjU

Leo656

11-17-2021, 07:10 PM

I also think it's funny how some of the squawking heads like those dumb hens on The View love to trot out the old "He (Rittenhouse) had no business even being there!" excuse.

I said the same thing about ol' Floyd, many times, BUT YA KNOWWWW the Libs don't like it when you flip that kinda sh*t on 'em. In THAT case, WHY Floyd was out passing fake bills and getting high instead of home with his kid was "nobody's business but his." But in THIS case, Kyle Rittenhouse "had no reason being there except to cause trouble."

It's very "interesting".

Sumac

11-18-2021, 12:19 AM

I find it amusing that people who were shot and were "fighting a good fight on a right side of history" were criminals: a pedophile, a murderer, and a just a thug. Its like perfect portrayal of Left audience. All this group was needed is a transqueer nerd, who was peeping on women in bathrooms and it would have been perfect.

Coola Yagami

11-18-2021, 02:03 PM

AquaParade

11-19-2021, 09:21 AM

It's a fascinating trial to watch. Not to make light of it, but I may even go back and watch some other classic trials after this.

Either way, it's a sad situation on all sides. Rittenhouse, to me, seems like someone with good intentions but also doesn't seem to make the best decisions.
The men who died seem of poor character in comparison. Not to say they deserve to die - not at all.

But at the end of the day, I'm thinking he is innocent by way of self-defense. Don't attack people.

Look, I haven't been following this closely enough to make the call, so I'm not trying to play judge & jury, that's jus where I'm at right now.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2021, 09:27 AM

I'm thinking regardless the reason, if you're stupid enough to run at someone telling threats and insults at someone with a gun that big (or any kind of gun to be honest) you must be tired of living. You get what you ****ing deserve.

IMJ

11-19-2021, 09:39 AM

There are a significant number of units out there nowadays that the general complaining public would call "assault rifles" when in fact many of them are actually handguns with stocks and elongated barrels.

That aside, this really looks like a case of self defense. And the courts are the last bastion of upholding these intellectual virtues given what is going on in society. The manipulative members of society, the haters, and quite frankly the criminals will argue it's an unfair system. But they are disingenuous liars and they are wrong.

oldmanwinters

11-19-2021, 12:31 PM

And... here we go.

Vegita-San

11-19-2021, 12:33 PM

vicsavage

11-19-2021, 01:37 PM

This place is starting to look indistinguishable from Stormfront.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2021, 01:44 PM

The more I look into it, it was self defense and never should have made it to court. Now we sit back and watch the kid sue the literal **** out of everyone.

IMJ

11-19-2021, 01:59 PM

The more I look into it, it was self defense and never should have made it to court. Now we sit back and watch the kid sue the literal **** out of everyone.

It was clearly self-defense. Anyone who says otherwise given all of the information out there about this is either a hater & manipulator or an idiot of the highest order.

Vegita-San

11-19-2021, 02:17 PM

This place is starting to look indistinguishable from Stormfront.

had to look up what the hell that was. is this voltron reborn? :)

ahh, twitter. never fail to disappoint. Why is black lives matter trending? he shot three white criminals IIRC.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2021, 02:31 PM

Cause everything, no matter what, has to be about race.

IMJ

11-19-2021, 02:57 PM

Cause everything, no matter what, has to be about race.

No, no.

It's because everything has to be about narcissism and excuse making for a given person's life-status and lack of accomplishment.
Race is only the straw man and gaslighting tactic deployed for use during the excuse making.

Sumac

11-19-2021, 03:17 PM

This place is starting to look indistinguishable from Stormfront.
Yeah, because, white guy shooting white thugs (who, by sheer accident, were scum) is about racism...

Also, if you want to say that they were fighting for the Blacks, you know, when pedophile, murderer and abuser fight for you, you probably should think, who the heck are you. And why you are attracting such "allies".

Andrew NDB

11-19-2021, 03:20 PM

Sumac

11-19-2021, 03:25 PM

Glad that Kyle walks free (though I'd hire some bodyguards, since Lefty trash might try to do something stupid).
There is still hope for US.

Now, let's see Lefties frothing at their mouth.

vicsavage

11-19-2021, 03:27 PM

IMJ

11-19-2021, 03:49 PM

where's the lie

It's rarely a direct lie. Instead it's worse - it's a manipulation like a straw man point or a gaslighting twist.

Maybe the judge did have a soft spot for that kid. Because the kid was being tried-by-social-opportunity in an act of self defense. Not because the peasant-thinkers would say "the judge had a soft spot for that kind because he was white". That's the gaslighting manipulation.

Maybe the graphic is depicting something that happens. Because people turn their back and walk away from cops when they shouldn't during stops were they commonly did something wrong. Not because the peasant-thinkers would say "he is being followed because he is black". That's the strawman manipulation.

So yeah. You want gaslighting-life instead of specificity and truth in life? There's your lie right there.

vicsavage

11-19-2021, 03:58 PM

I wonder why Rittenhouse went to a Black Lives Matter protest.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2021, 04:02 PM

I wonder why Rittenhouse went to a Black Lives Matter protest.

I'm more curious why a pedo was creeping around a black lives matter protest.

Least Kyle works and has family in the area. What was that other guy's excuse.

Andrew NDB

11-19-2021, 04:04 PM

I wonder why Rittenhouse went to a Black Lives Matter protest.

To render aid and protect businesses, as he always professed and actually did. You'd rather have the people burning down businesses and beating people up? Why aren't you equally wondering why they went there? I'd rather have 300 Kyle Rittenhouses than 1 pedo psycho rioter or any of the other basket cases.

vicsavage

11-19-2021, 04:09 PM

I have a feeling some of you care more about business' windows than black lives.

Anyway, it'll be interesting what 14 Words-adjacent org Rittenhouse falls in with, if he doesn't end up with a TV show on Fox News or a congressional internship with one of the psychotics in Congress. Maybe he'll end up like George Zimmerman, signing shooting memorabilia to stay afloat.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2021, 04:26 PM

I have a feeling some of you care more about business' windows than black lives.

You do realize most of the black people there cared more about busting up businesses windows than black lives, do you?

Sumac

11-19-2021, 04:27 PM

I have a feeling some of you care more about business' windows than black lives.
Ah, yes, lefty favorite retarded adage about "lives are more important than business!!".

Except losing business will have serious consequences not only for the person owning it, but to their family as well, including hurting their health in the process. So in a way hurting business is hurting people.

But, of course, it inconvenient truth for the lefties, not to mention most of them are infantile and ignorant of how exactly insurance works and think everything that was burnt and stolen would be simply compensated and returned back next morning.

And in general, having mob of thugs burning and looting everything they see in sight do not help anyone. If anything, it has an opposite effect on most sane people.

Anyway, it'll be interesting what 14 Words-adjacent org Rittenhouse falls in with, if he doesn't end up with a TV show on Fox News or a congressional internship with one of the psychotics in Congress.
I don't think he'd try to take any position in the Biden's government, so your favorite psychotics can sleep safely.

Galactus

11-19-2021, 04:43 PM

Cause everything, no matter what, has to be about race.

This whole thing happened the middle of riots that began with protests about the police shooting of Jacob Blake with racist anti protesters showing up to cause trouble. Rittenhouse didn't just randomly choose to play vigilante at any civil unrest he deliberately chose that one.

Comparisons between Kyle Rittenhouse and George Floyd are hugely flawed. There are several important reasons why Floyd became a sympathetic figure and Rittenhouse didn't...well apart from among racists.

1. Rittenhouse was taken alive by the police even allowed to go home, Floyd was killed by the police.

2. Rittenhouse shot a bunch of people killing them, Floyd may have passed a bum check.

3. Rittenhouse is white and Floyd was black. If you're wondering why that is relevant it's because it explains the first two and also explains why Rittenhouse got away with it.

If you want further proof of that then look at Tamir Rice a 12 year boy African American boy who was killed by the police for carrying a toy gun. Treyvon Martin was killed for no other reason than he wore a hoodie. Neither of them received justice. Apparently simply holding a hand gun (which police were informed was probably fake) and simply walking through a street at night was enough for a court to determine that people were correct to fear for their safety and kill them but a self styled vigilante carrying an AR-15 in the middle of a a civil unrest is seen as benign and no threat to anyone.

That's why it's about race.

Andrew NDB

11-19-2021, 05:13 PM

You know what the Jacob Blake case had in common with the Rittenhouse case? Neither one had anything remotely to do with race or racism. Protesting and rioting in the name of something that didn't actually happen seems way worse to me than someone who just wanted to be around to pick up the pieces when buildings would start burning and people getting hurt which of course it what happened because that's what always happens.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2021, 05:16 PM

This whole thing happened the middle of riots that began with protests about the police shooting of Jacob Blake with racist anti protesters showing up to cause trouble. Rittenhouse didn't just randomly choose to play vigilante at any civil unrest he deliberately chose that one.

Comparisons between Kyle Rittenhouse and George Floyd are hugely flawed. There are several important reasons why Floyd became a sympathetic figure and Rittenhouse didn't...well apart from among racists.

1. Rittenhouse was taken alive by the police even allowed to go home, Floyd was killed by the police.

2. Rittenhouse shot a bunch of people killing them, Floyd may have passed a bum check.

3. Rittenhouse is white and Floyd was black. If you're wondering why that is relevant it's because it explains the first two and also explains why Rittenhouse got away with it.

If you want further proof of that then look at Tamir Rice a 12 year boy African American boy who was killed by the police for carrying a toy gun. Treyvon Martin was killed for no other reason than he wore a hoodie. Neither of them received justice. Apparently simply holding a hand gun (which police were informed was probably fake) and simply walking through a street at night was enough for a court to determine that people were correct to fear for their safety and kill them but a self styled vigilante carrying an AR-15 in the middle of a a civil unrest is seen as benign and no threat to anyone.

That's why it's about race.

I mean, that's more the fault of cops shooting up those other people that anything Kyle did. Tell them not to be jumpy around black people but it's not the whiteboy's fault.

Leo656

11-19-2021, 05:17 PM

"Died in police custody" does not equal "Killed by police".

Also, there is overwhelming evidence that Trayvon Martin was out looking for cars to break into, as he'd recently been busted at school carrying a tool for breaking into cars (along with a bunch of stolen goods). Nobody goes out walking in the rain because "I just want some Skittles". He knew most people would be inside because of the rain, thus making the job easier. I grew up in a town where people breaking into cars was somewhat common, and my wife's car was even broken into once. I recognize the M.O.

Not saying either one DESERVED to die, because they didn't. But c'mon, let's not make them out to be "innocent victims". They weren't. Both of them acted in ways that deliberately precipitated their unfortunate end, and all they had to do was NOT do what they did. In Floyd's case, don't go out trying to score dope, and in Martin's case, don't charge at someone and start bashing their head against the concrete just because you don't like them eyeballing you.

Ugly Truths are still Truths.

I grew up in a very mixed-race town with a ton of drug-related activity; as such, my Dad was friends with a lot of drug-dealing minorities. Actual police violence against minorities was very rare - most of them were smart enough to just comply, thus avoiding any escalation - but in the event it did happen, the general consensus among the other minority criminals in town was always, "Well, that's what they get for being a f*cking dumbass. Motherf*ckin' cop says 'stop', I lay my ass on the ground, I ain't takin' any chances."

So what's changed since then, I wonder? Were the drug dealers in my town just a "smarter class of criminal"? I mean seriously. 20 years in that town, almost ALL of the criminals in town were black, and hardly anybody ever got killed by the cops. Because when someone said "Stop," they listened. Is it really so hard?

Floyd should've been home with his kid, and Martin should've just said "F*ck off, I'm on my way home" and kept walking, not charged at Zimmerman and started trying to crack his skull.

Let's not deify people for lacking common sense. If that lack of common sense gets them killed, that's definitely unfortunate BUT they still ultimately have no one but themselves to blame. "Play Stupid Games, Win Stupid Prizes."

That's cold. But it's a cold world.

Also, if you want to say that they were fighting for the Blacks, you know, when pedophile, murderer and abuser fight for you, you probably should think, who the heck are you. And why you are attracting such "allies".

Y e a h that's kind of a sticky wicket as well. Like, THESE are the people crusading for the side of "what's right"? JESUS.

This place is starting to look indistinguishable from Stormfront.

Not even close.

Some Liberals seem to have a real problem with "nuance". Just a thing I've noticed.

joe-eyeball

11-19-2021, 05:34 PM

I have a feeling some of you care more about business' windows than black lives.

Oh look an ignorant leftist troll making assumptions based on nothing to stir sh!+! Go cry elsewhere pal! Whether you like it or not the jury absolutely 100% followed the law based on the evidence presented and had NO choice but to deliver a not guilty verdict. If you’d like, go petition to the Wisconsin state legislature to change the laws he was protected by so the next time someone is justifiably defending themselves you can celebrate them being thrown in prison!

Leo656

11-19-2021, 05:44 PM

Supposedly Wisconsin does have some of the toughest self-defense laws in the country, so there is that.

NJ, as I understand it, has no self-defense laws at all. And man does that make me glad I don't live in certain parts of it. Even back in high school, I always carried mace when I went out walking after dark. And that wasn't even a "bad" neighborhood, you just never know y'know? I only had two street altercations in my whole time living there, but that was plenty. Knowing that if someone tried to rob or kill me and I ended up killing them in self-defense that *I* would now be considered a criminal is... well, it's wrong.

I frankly don't think criminals should have many rights at all, and that once you purposely offend you give up a ton of said rights. But then I'm kind of a hard-ass. I prioritize normal, law-abiding people far above people who rob, deal drugs, steal and break things. Maybe I'm crazy. I kinda don't think so.

joe-eyeball

11-19-2021, 05:53 PM

Yeah New Jersey is notoriously “against” self defense! I’m pretty sure they even severely limit what type of handgun ammo you can carry in your ccw pistol for self defense?

I actually had to pull my carry gun and present it once to a threat and the two guys said “it’s cool” “we’re outta here”! That alone scared the **** out of me! I was parked at an abandoned looking service garage in a rough part of town (Cleveland) waiting for another car with friends to follow me back to where we were going and two guys in an Escalade pull up and promptly tell me to F off or else. As I was explaining that I was only waiting there for friends and would gladly leave in a few minutes they jumped out of their vehicle and threatened me. Hope I never experience something like that ever again.

Leo656

11-19-2021, 06:06 PM

Yeah, we always have Democrat legislature in NJ because it's a "Sopranos State" and the Dems are soft on crime. Most people around here don't vote in the state elections because they know the fix is in, anyway. The mob are still the ones really running things, the figureheads "in power" are just names on paper. And the Italians certainly aren't going to allow anyone to take office that might bust up their tea party.

So the mob puts pro-"union", soft-on-crime Democrats in power AND makes sure that regular people can't defend themselves in the event they're robbed or attacked, and that's why the cities up here are a complete mess. Some parts are amazing - I'm fortunate to live in one of the nicer areas - but man, don't go near Newark or New Brunswick, or anyplace up north just before you hit the tunnel into NY.

Galactus

11-19-2021, 06:12 PM

Andrew NDB

11-19-2021, 06:22 PM

Vegita-San

11-19-2021, 06:32 PM

If you want further proof of that then look at Tamir Rice a 12 year boy African American boy who was killed by the police for carrying a toy gun. Treyvon Martin was killed for no other reason than he wore a hoodie. Neither of them received justice. Apparently simply holding a hand gun (which police were informed was probably fake) and simply walking through a street at night was enough for a court to determine that people were correct to fear for their safety and kill them but a self styled vigilante carrying an AR-15 in the middle of a a civil unrest is seen as benign and no threat to anyone.

That's why it's about race.

As I recall, Martin was spotted snooping around people's windows, something that largely gets left out of why he got in trouble. and the police don't KNOW it's a Toy Gun. you point something at me, you get only ONE shot to make it count, otherwise your dead and they're not. especially if they point it at you.

Floyd was big and massive and probably on some kind of drug and that's why they might have felt the need to restrain him. could it have been done another way? yeah... but if it was a white guy, I garuntee you it wouldn't have even made the news. no one would be lamenting a dead white crook. the fact that people are holding up these 'victims' as innocent shows you how desperate they are to paint this kid as a problem. that should tell you alot right there.

mrmaczaps

11-19-2021, 06:35 PM

twitter is already going on about the usual white supremicist nonsense ....
and this nonsense of 'no justice, no peace' sure sounds like a threat for more violence.

here's the thing. if he deliberatly went out there looking for trouble, that's not self defense. if he was just walking around trying to get something during a riot, and got attacked that IS self defense.

the video could have been edited to make it look like one, or the other and no one is happy.

the first thing I saw, was him being attacked by a gang and having what looked like a hand gun go off after someone grabbed it. that clearly looked like self defense. but if he had what LOOKED like a high powered rifle that the attorney held in court, and was just walking around waiting for something to happen, that IMHO, opens it up to a whole other discussion.

Doesn't matter what he was carrying. Kyle could have been running around with a .50 BMG for all that that matters... he was lawfully carrying & the only people who got the firearm pointed at them were his attackers... 100% self defense. I carry everywhere I go... Its not because I'm looking for trouble, its because evil exists & I'm not going to outrun anyone...

mrmaczaps

11-19-2021, 06:36 PM

I see the narrative already spreading on Facebook pages. "Damn that judge! It's because the judge had a soft spot for that kid!" and memes like this one:

https://i.ibb.co/6mqkC7k/259352072-4872456486117993-9028635192395672814-n.jpg

Who tf is the black dude shot in the back? Is that supposed to be the knife wielding rapist that was shot that set off blm terrorists?

mrmaczaps

11-19-2021, 06:40 PM

This whole thing happened the middle of riots that began with protests about the police shooting of Jacob Blake with racist anti protesters showing up to cause trouble. Rittenhouse didn't just randomly choose to play vigilante at any civil unrest he deliberately chose that one.

Comparisons between Kyle Rittenhouse and George Floyd are hugely flawed. There are several important reasons why Floyd became a sympathetic figure and Rittenhouse didn't...well apart from among racists.

1. Rittenhouse was taken alive by the police even allowed to go home, Floyd was killed by the police.

2. Rittenhouse shot a bunch of people killing them, Floyd may have passed a bum check.

3. Rittenhouse is white and Floyd was black. If you're wondering why that is relevant it's because it explains the first two and also explains why Rittenhouse got away with it.

If you want further proof of that then look at Tamir Rice a 12 year boy African American boy who was killed by the police for carrying a toy gun. Treyvon Martin was killed for no other reason than he wore a hoodie. Neither of them received justice. Apparently simply holding a hand gun (which police were informed was probably fake) and simply walking through a street at night was enough for a court to determine that people were correct to fear for their safety and kill them but a self styled vigilante carrying an AR-15 in the middle of a a civil unrest is seen as benign and no threat to anyone.

That's why it's about race.

Fvck floyd. Drug addict died of his overdose... typical drug addict swallowed the pills he had to try & hide evidence. Sure what the cops did did not help but frankly, his drug addicted a$$ would have overdosed regardless where he was sitting or laying or at once the police had him in custody. Rittenhouse rid the world of 2 human scumbags.

mrmaczaps

11-19-2021, 06:46 PM

If people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd should have simply used "common sense" and not been were they were when they were killed then surely that same logic should apply to Kyle Rittenhouse. What the actual **** was a 17 year old thinking travelling across state lines armed with an AR-15 going to a riot?

I feel I should point out there is less evidence of Treyvon Martin going out with the intention stealing cars than there is of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white supremacist the guy was literally pictured celebrating with a bunch of known white supremacists. That casts his motivation for being at riots caused by the police shooting an unarmed black man in a much darker light. Let's call a spade a spade here; he wasn't there to be a medic nor to play peacemaker. At best he was there to score points with his alt right buddies being seen standing up BLM and Antifa at worst he was looking to shoot some black people and any white people who were their allies.

However if you want defend his legal right to be there regardless of how extremely dumb and morally questionable it was that is fine ...but you should also extend that same argument to black people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd. What is a bigger lapse in judgement anyway going to play vigilante at a riot or going out at night or going to a grocery store during the day?

First of all, Trayvon could have lived if he hadn't taken a swing at & beat on an older guy that was armed.... he died because he was also stupid. Floyd was a drug addict & the cops got railroaded. He was dead regardless of what the police were doing because he popped all those pills.

Now, Rittenhouse was LAWFULLY carrying a firearm he got only once he got to town. The firearm did NOT come with him from his home. Pay attention. Kyle never hung out with any white supremacists, just some white dudes that the liberal media has labeled as such run by a guy is who is not even a white dude.

Trayvon brought fists to a gun fight.
Floyd overdosed.
Kyle defended himself against 4 violent felons trying to kill him.

Leo656

11-19-2021, 06:47 PM

If people like Treyvon Martin and George Floyd should have simply used "common sense" and not been were they were when they were killed then surely that same logic should apply to Kyle Rittenhouse. What the actual **** was a 17 year old thinking travelling across state lines armed with an AR-15 going to a riot?

I personally would not have gone out, as he did.

However, "Why was he even there?" wasn't the point of the trial. The point was, "Under state law, did he have the right to shoot to defend himself against people who came after him?" State law says "Yes he did." But I agree, if he stayed home then nothing happens. I don't think he really should have been there, but that wasn't what the trial was about.

If you've ever been questioned by the cops after any sort of violent encounter - and BOY have I - when you start going too far backwards in the series of events that led to whatever it was that happened, they will always cut you off and be like, "I don't give a f*ck about yesterday or an hour ago, just tell me what the f*ck happened Right Now." So the WHY of Rittenhouse being there was not entirely relevant no matter how much people insist that it is. Was he licensed to carry? Apparently yes. Was he within his rights to shoot at people attacking him? Apparently yes, according to state law. "Why was he even there?" Legally, not really relevant. But again, I DO think him even being there was stupid. But it's not enough to establish intent to murder. Murder is VERY hard to prove, on purpose. Especially in incidents such as this.

The officer who was on trial for killing Floyd was technically innocent of "murder" because "murder" by its very legal definition implies INTENT. And I highly doubt the officer MEANT to kill George Floyd. And I'm pretty sure the Fentanyl had a wee bit to do with him dying as well. Call it a gut feeling if you must.

And Martin should have kept walking home, not started a physical fight with the person following him. Even if he was innocent of anything he was suspected of, up to that point, at THAT moment he became an assailant, a criminal, and Zimmerman acted as anyone in that situation would if they were armed as he had been. Someone starts smashing my head against the concrete, f*ck it, I don't care WHAT they were doing a minute ago, sh*t's ON now and if they don't make it, Oh Well. Don't bash my f*cking head against the concrete, then.

These are not apples-to-apples comparisons. BUT, in every case, someone done goofed and in turn someone got killed. Still, it's not as simple a case of "Whataboutism" as some would have one believe.

Galactus

11-19-2021, 07:11 PM

That he wanted to help defend businesses and injured people, which he did until he was attacked. What part of that isn't sinking it?

Let's say for a moment that's correct; what business has a 17 year old with no medical training and from an entirely different state even doing going there to help injured people and businesses?

Now that I've humoured that argument for a moment let's be real; a guy who has at least some sympathies with white supremacists isn't going to a riot caused by the repeated shooting of an unarmed black man to help anyone. At very least that should cast some doubt on his motivations.

As I recall, Martin was spotted snooping around people's windows, something that largely gets left out of why he got in trouble. and the police don't KNOW it's a Toy Gun. you point something at me, you get only ONE shot to make it count, otherwise your dead and they're not. especially if they point it at you.

Rittenhouse's defenders say there is no proof his intentions were to cause anyone harm but there's zero proof that Treyvon Martin was looking in windows or looking to steal cars. He didn't have any of the supposed equipment to break into anything actually on him.

This will be a very unpopular opinion but I don't buy that Police should take no chances. When you join the police you're supposed to accept that some situations your life will be on the line. There are acceptable risks. Dealing with a 12 year old child with something you've been informed was probably a toy is one of them.

Floyd was big and massive and probably on some kind of drug and that's why they might have felt the need to restrain him. could it have been done another way? yeah... but if it was a white guy, I garuntee you it wouldn't have even made the news. no one would be lamenting a dead white crook. the fact that people are holding up these 'victims' as innocent shows you how desperate they are to paint this kid as a problem. that should tell you alot right there.

If George Floyd was not resisting arrest I see no reason to put him down on the ground certainly not kneel on his neck. As soon as he started saying he couldn't breath they should have tried to help him.

I agree that if Floyd was white it probably wouldn't have made the national and international news but that's because George Floyd was the latest in a long line of unarmed black people that were killed by the police. Comparatively much fewer white people are killed by police even the likes of Dylan Roof. When white people are needlessly killed by police it's also FAR more common for the officers involved to be held accountable.

Sumac

11-19-2021, 07:14 PM

I feel I should point out there is less evidence of Treyvon Martin going out with the intention stealing cars than there is of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white supremacist the guy was literally pictured celebrating with a bunch of known white supremacists. That casts his motivation for being at riots caused by the police shooting an unarmed black man in a much darker light. Let's call a spade a spade here; he wasn't there to be a medic nor to play peacemaker. At best he was there to score points with his alt right buddies being seen standing up BLM and Antifa at worst he was looking to shoot some black people and any white people who were their allies.
The fact that you create this kind of narrative out of nothing tells me more about yourself, rather than KR or anything about his case.

In particular it shows paranoia, love for inane conspiracies and some weird hatred.

Normal people won't jump to conclusion, that the guy was there to commit mass murder of some random people.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2021, 07:42 PM

Honestly George Floyd was a nobody, all this **** mostly happened cause it was during pandemic lockdown and people saw it as a 'get out of jail free lockdown' excuse to go out, gather in groups and destroy **** when they were still supposed to be home due to the pandemic.

I bet you most of the so-called protesters didn't give a flying ****, they just saw it as a free pass to go outside and take out their lockdown aggression on property. And if the cops happened to arrest or shoot 'the wrong one' they can keep their cause going.

I don't care what Kyle was doing there, he clearly woulda been shooting people up if that his intention from the start, the video even shows him just walking around all chill until he got attacked.

Also stop using the 'another state' ******** narrative. Dude was literal minutes away. Y'all acting like he drove 10 hours to get there.

joe-eyeball

11-19-2021, 07:59 PM

Also stop using the 'another state' ******** narrative. Dude was literal minutes away. Y'all acting like he drove 10 hours to get there.

Right! This one cracks me up whenever I hear someone bring it up. Hey morons this is The U.S.A. and we can freely cross state lines no questions asked! Merely visiting another state by itself isn’t evidence of intent.

Coola Yagami

11-19-2021, 09:01 PM

Right! This one cracks me up whenever I hear someone bring it up. Hey morons this is The U.S.A. and we can freely cross state lines no questions asked! Merely visiting another state by itself isn’t evidence of intent.

It's not just that, it's that from where he stands, 'the next state' is literally a hop, skip and a jump away. It's like going to the grocery store. They're just desperately reaching for anything to make it sound as incriminating as possible.

Bahamut810

11-19-2021, 10:22 PM

I dont know much about most of the cases with MArtin and Floyd but I am well up on Rittenhouse...so lets correct some misconseptions.

What the actual **** was a 17 year old thinking travelling across state lines armed with an AR-15 going to a riot?

He didn't travel across state lines with an AR-15. It was legally purchased and held by a friend of his living in Kenosha. He travelled to a town 15 minutes from his permanent address that he lived in part time with his Father, visited his father side of the family who primarily lived there and he worked there. So he had a vested interest in the town. To put it in perspective, he was time was closer then the guy who lost his bicept (30 minute drive) and the guy who initially assulted him (4 mile walk).

there is of Kyle Rittenhouse being a white supremacist the guy was literally pictured celebrating with a bunch of known white supremacists.

a guy who has at least some sympathies with white supremacists isn't going to a riot caused by the repeated shooting of an unarmed black man to help anyone.

The pictures you are talking about came *after* everything went down at a time when Rittenhouse was being lambasted in the media and loved by people outside the media. It seems pretty obvious that a young person was responding to positive attention when his life is extremely chaotic.

It seems like you have a pre-concieved notion that you *want* him to be a sociopathic monster.

he wasn't there to be a medic nor to play peacemaker. At best he was there to score points with his alt right buddies being seen standing up BLM and Antifa at worst he was looking to shoot some black people and any white people who were their allies.

Completely incorrect. There is video footage of him going out to try to help people and he has a long history of joining orginisations dedicated to helping people (like Jr Firefighters). He was there to help people and mitigate the fires caused by a mob by his actions.

This will be a very unpopular opinion but I don't buy that Police should take no chances. When you join the police you're supposed to accept that some situations your life will be on the line. There are acceptable risks.

Agreed, but there is a difference between acceptable and stupid risks.

If George Floyd was not resisting arrest I see no reason to put him down on the ground certainly not kneel on his neck. As soon as he started saying he couldn't breath they should have tried to help him.

I dont know everything about this case...but I do know that he was saying that during the entire encounter even before he was on the ground. The ground was their compromise to not going in the cruiser which he fought the cops on. That does not make it right if they didnt do right...I dont know about extenuating stuff. I did watch the video at one point and thats what happened.

AquaParade

11-19-2021, 11:30 PM

Right! This one cracks me up whenever I hear someone bring it up. Hey morons this is The U.S.A. and we can freely cross state lines no questions asked! Merely visiting another state by itself isn’t evidence of intent.

Totally. I keep wondering if people know what they are talking about when they say that, because it’s completely meaningless in the big picture. Try convincing me you really care whether he crossed state lines, regardless of the fact that his dad lived there and it was ten minutes away.

Leo656

11-20-2021, 12:09 AM

Sumac

11-20-2021, 12:51 AM

I will say - and I promise not to make a habit of this - I have to give credit to Biden for his statement about "the system works" and "we have to abide by the judge's decision". That took guts, all things considered.

I guess everybody does get One.
It is a sad day, when the fact that judicial system works as it should and doesn't bend to crazy psycho mob or politicians celebrated as a something great.

As a Russian I can sympathize with it, though. :ohwell:

It seems like you have a pre-concieved notion that you *want* him to be a sociopathic monster.
It what Lefties do - everyone who disagree with them are definitely psychopaths who want to kill innocent people just because.

One of their main ideas of why Blacks lives are bad (?) in US is that White people ready to hurt themselves and their families, just not to vote for the laws that would make life of Blacks easier.
What kind of understanding you can find with people who seriously think like this? Who think that even tiniest disagreement is enough to label anyone as a potential racist mass murderer? :roll:

Vegita-San

11-20-2021, 05:55 AM

Cue the Antifa riot. I guess that was a 'peacful protest' too, huh?

too me, looks like the capitol riots. violence is more their MO.

Bahamut810

11-20-2021, 09:29 AM

It what Lefties do - everyone who disagree with them are definitely psychopaths who want to kill innocent people just because.

There is no hurt in pointing it out when it happens though. One day someone may reflect on their witch hunts. Afterall..."progressive cancel culture" is just todays red scare, DnD scare, witch hunt...basically the most vocal group trying to push their morals on *everyone*.

Cue the Antifa riot. I guess that was a 'peaceful protest' too, huh?

Did that happen last night? I haven't heard anything about it yet.

Coola Yagami

11-20-2021, 01:21 PM

The most I see is the usual leftist ****. Twitter going nuts, anyone who disagrees is getting blocked, friendships are being broken on FB over whoever says Kyle did nothing wrong. All that nonsense.

IndigoErth

11-20-2021, 02:40 PM

Should Gaige Grosskreutz, the guy who was wounded but lived, have shot Rittenhouse right back in his own rightful self defense? After all, he didn't pull the trigger of his own gun, even after Rittenhouse had shot him, he held back. Would he likewise have been in the right and innocent of any charges if he returned fire on Rittenhouse, possibly taking him down, after being shot himself and after others having been shot?

joe-eyeball

11-20-2021, 03:12 PM

Should Gaige Grosskreutz, the guy who was wounded but lived, have shot Rittenhouse right back in his own rightful self defense? After all, he didn't pull the trigger of his own gun, even after Rittenhouse had shot him, he held back. Would he likewise have been in the right and innocent of any charges if he returned fire on Rittenhouse, possibly taking him down, after being shot himself and after others having been shot?

The burden would have been on the prosecution to show that he too had a right to defend himself legally. If an investigation would have concluded that Gaige was the initial aggressor then NO he could not claim justifiable self defense. This is because you can’t legally defend yourself if you absolutely created the situation of imminent danger in the first place. Also Gaige probably couldn’t shoot back if he wanted because his arm was too injured to do so.

In Ohio you can as a legal ccw holder come to the defense of a stranger but you better be damn sure you are defending against the initial aggressor and not just flippantly picking a side and firing without having certain details.

Galactus

11-20-2021, 05:18 PM

I personally would not have gone out, as he did.

However, "Why was he even there?" wasn't the point of the trial. The point was, "Under state law, did he have the right to shoot to defend himself against people who came after him?" State law says "Yes he did." But I agree, if he stayed home then nothing happens. I don't think he really should have been there, but that wasn't what the trial was about.

...

I don't want to come off as confrontational on this but it was you that first brought up the example of unarmed black people that people have drawn comparisons to should have had more "common sense". You also brought up allegations on their characters as well worn speculation on their motivations for what they were doing when they were killed. I tend to think if that gets brought up as some kind of...not necessarily defense but perhaps justification for their killings then I think it's fair game for us on the other side of this to be able to use the same logic with Kyle Rittenhouse.

While the jostling to 'control the narrative' in these kinds of situations is a natural reaction to the very polarised political climate we're living in right now I do think it does some have some baring on the legalities of a cases particularly when the involve juries and grey areas such the nature of self defense and laws against provoking violence. Like if the video of him beating up a young girl or his bragging about wanting to shoot people days before this incident had been out there more maybe a jury would have been more incline to see him for the scumbag he is and maybe he bares some legal responsibility for what happened after all.

He didn't travel across state lines with an AR-15. It was legally purchased and held by a friend of his living in Kenosha. He travelled to a town 15 minutes from his permanent address that he lived in part time with his Father, visited his father side of the family who primarily lived there and he worked there. So he had a vested interest in the town. To put it in perspective, he was time was closer then the guy who lost his bicept (30 minute drive) and the guy who initially assulted him (4 mile walk).

To be honest this sounds even more dubious. It sounds like he deliberately bought an AR-15 specifically to go to these riots literally days after he brags he wants to shoot people.

The pictures you are talking about came *after* everything went down at a time when Rittenhouse was being lambasted in the media and loved by people outside the media. It seems pretty obvious that a young person was responding to positive attention when his life is extremely chaotic.

I'm aware of that but Rittenhouse is quite politically engaged even at 17 years old and staunchly on the right. He and family would surely have known who these people were and what they stood for. There were tons of Conservatives of all stripes that were offering him support why did he chose to go party with actual white supremecists. Hell, why even do that with anyone at all? Whether he thinks what he did was legal or not he still killed two people. Whooping it up is probably not the best look.

It seems like you have a pre-concieved notion that you *want* him to be a sociopathic monster.

I don't know if he's a sociopath. I do know that he is a thug that beats up woman and thought he could play act as some militia guy until something genuinely happened and decided he couldn't hack it.

Agreed, but there is a difference between acceptable and stupid risks.

I don't think it's a stupid risk to use restraint when dealing with a 12 year old boy playing with what you've been told is toy and not shoot him in the dead. Likewise I don't think it's a stupid risk to use restraint when dealing with a 7 year old old and you're not sure you've raided the right apartment and not shoot her in the head. Or if a man you've randomly pulled over informs you he's got a license for a gun and reaches to show to use use restraint and not just assume he must be reaching for the gun and instantly shoot him at point blank range. Funny how cops have a 'no risk' attitude when he comes to black people but are fine using restraint to take white mass shooters like Dylan Roof alive.

The most I see is the usual leftist ****. Twitter going nuts, anyone who disagrees is getting blocked, friendships are being broken on FB over whoever says Kyle did nothing wrong. All that nonsense.

Whether Kyle Rittenhouse did something illegal is one argument but he killed two people. He's definitely done things wrong...like a lot of things way, way wrong.

Coola Yagami

11-20-2021, 06:24 PM

Should Gaige Grosskreutz, the guy who was wounded but lived, have shot Rittenhouse right back in his own rightful self defense? After all, he didn't pull the trigger of his own gun, even after Rittenhouse had shot him, he held back. Would he likewise have been in the right and innocent of any charges if he returned fire on Rittenhouse, possibly taking him down, after being shot himself and after others having been shot?

He started it though. You're pretty much asking if a guy breaks in, and you start shooting to defend yourself, your family and your property... if the crook also has the right to shoot you right back because he's defending himself.

Your right to defend yourself goes out the window once you start attacking someone.

Coola Yagami

11-20-2021, 06:30 PM

Whether Kyle Rittenhouse did something illegal is one argument but he killed two people. He's definitely done things wrong...like a lot of things way, way wrong.

Two stupid people that literally chose to run towards a gun rather than away from it. Anyone stupid enough to come at someone with a skateboard, or to be yelling threats and insults while attacking someone got what they got.

Wether they deserved it or not, it doesn't change the fact that what they did was incredibly stupid. The third guy is just extremely lucky he didn't die too cause he sure was looking for more of the same.

joe-eyeball

11-20-2021, 06:45 PM

Your right to defend yourself goes out the window once you start attacking someone.

Not to mention that that guy also had NO legal right to possess a concealed firearm under those circumstances! And in open court he flat out admitted that Rittenhouse only fired upon him when he advanced on him and pointed his illegally carried Glock at Kyle.

mrmaczaps

11-20-2021, 06:55 PM

Should Gaige Grosskreutz, the guy who was wounded but lived, have shot Rittenhouse right back in his own rightful self defense? After all, he didn't pull the trigger of his own gun, even after Rittenhouse had shot him, he held back. Would he likewise have been in the right and innocent of any charges if he returned fire on Rittenhouse, possibly taking him down, after being shot himself and after others having been shot?

Its not self defense when you chase someone down trying to murder them... and Gaige needs to be charged with attempted murder, illegal possession of a firearm by a convicted felon & probably a few other things.

mrmaczaps

11-20-2021, 06:59 PM

I don't want to come off as confrontational on this but it was you that first brought up the example of unarmed black people that people have drawn comparisons to should have had more "common sense". You also brought up allegations on their characters as well worn speculation on their motivations for what they were doing when they were killed. I tend to think if that gets brought up as some kind of...not necessarily defense but perhaps justification for their killings then I think it's fair game for us on the other side of this to be able to use the same logic with Kyle Rittenhouse.

While the jostling to 'control the narrative' in these kinds of situations is a natural reaction to the very polarised political climate we're living in right now I do think it does some have some baring on the legalities of a cases particularly when the involve juries and grey areas such the nature of self defense and laws against provoking violence. Like if the video of him beating up a young girl or his bragging about wanting to shoot people days before this incident had been out there more maybe a jury would have been more incline to see him for the scumbag he is and maybe he bares some legal responsibility for what happened after all.

To be honest this sounds even more dubious. It sounds like he deliberately bought an AR-15 specifically to go to these riots literally days after he brags he wants to shoot people.

I'm aware of that but Rittenhouse is quite politically engaged even at 17 years old and staunchly on the right. He and family would surely have known who these people were and what they stood for. There were tons of Conservatives of all stripes that were offering him support why did he chose to go party with actual white supremecists. Hell, why even do that with anyone at all? Whether he thinks what he did was legal or not he still killed two people. Whooping it up is probably not the best look.

I don't know if he's a sociopath. I do know that he is a thug that beats up woman and thought he could play act as some militia guy until something genuinely happened and decided he couldn't hack it.

I don't think it's a stupid risk to use restraint when dealing with a 12 year old boy playing with what you've been told is toy and not shoot him in the dead. Likewise I don't think it's a stupid risk to use restraint when dealing with a 7 year old old and you're not sure you've raided the right apartment and not shoot her in the head. Or if a man you've randomly pulled over informs you he's got a license for a gun and reaches to show to use use restraint and not just assume he must be reaching for the gun and instantly shoot him at point blank range. Funny how cops have a 'no risk' attitude when he comes to black people but are fine using restraint to take white mass shooters like Dylan Roof alive.

Whether Kyle Rittenhouse did something illegal is one argument but he killed two people. He's definitely done things wrong...like a lot of things way, way wrong.

Why do you support pedophiles & convicted felons? Are you a commie fvcking terrorist? You don't even know what you're talking about.

oldmanwinters

11-20-2021, 07:20 PM

Whew, y'all took this one into a dark place real quick.

The only question now is whether this thread will get locked with a combination or key-based unit.

Bahamut810

11-20-2021, 09:12 PM

Should Gaige Grosskreutz, the guy who was wounded but lived, have shot Rittenhouse right back in his own rightful self defense? After all, he didn't pull the trigger of his own gun, even after Rittenhouse had shot him, he held back.

Two issues with this. First, He couldnt 'fire back' because it was impossible. Second, it was impossible due to his arm being half gone *after he pointed the gun at Rittenhouses head*. He admitted this in court. You cant claim self defense if you have a gun to a guys head after chasing him down as part of a mob.

You also brought up allegations on their characters as well worn speculation on their motivations for what they were doing when they were killed.

This does not matter in the context of the case. What matters is what happened. Its very straight forward. Rosenbaum was violent the entire night. Threatened people. "stepped" to people demanding a conflict. Threatened to murder people. He ambushed Rittenhouse, tried to take his gun and was shot. Other people heard about this and the mob did what the mob does as he was running towards the police. He was not an active shooter...they decided they wanted mob justice so they attacked a fleeing man and tried to take his gun. Everyone who didn't assault him was safe, and even a guy who did assault him and surrendered didn't have anything happen to him. We have direct video evidence that shows this.

Like if the video of him beating up a young girl or his bragging about wanting to shoot people

Correction: The video where he stood up to help his sister, and him **** talking like *literally everyone on twitter who wished they shot him or they would punch a nazi*. Don't act like wishing ill will is a "right-wing exclusive".

To be honest this sounds even more dubious. It sounds like he deliberately bought an AR-15 specifically to go to these riots literally days after he brags he wants to shoot people.

Correction: He didn't purchase the gun. His friend purchased the gun under an agreement that when he could legally own it it would be given to him. That is a legal thing. He wanted the gun because he wanted the gun. Provide evidence that he wanted it specifically to shoot people. While he has one video where he **** talks, LIKE EVERYONE ON TWITTER, he has a history of participating in programs that train him to help people.

I'm aware of that but Rittenhouse is quite politically engaged even at 17 years old and staunchly on the right. He and family would surely have known who these people were and what they stood for. There were tons of Conservatives of all stripes that were offering him support why did he chose to go party with actual white supremecists. Hell, why even do that with anyone at all? Whether he thinks what he did was legal or not he still killed two people. Whooping it up is probably not the best look.

You answered your own question. He went there because he was being supported while large swaths of the internet and the media were dog piling on him calling him a monster. Lets be honest, he could have done worst then hanging out with the worst "white supremacists"...a group led by a black cuban who are pretty much meme edgi bois. Per the defence he is in therapy for PTSD from the event, so support helps. Victim blaming wouldn't help with that.

I do know that he is a thug that beats up woman and thought he could play act as some militia guy until something genuinely happened and decided he couldn't hack it.

Correction: Kid who tried to help his sister who tried to be a medic and survived a child molester then a mob trying to kill him.

I don't think it's a stupid risk to use restraint when dealing with a 12 year old boy playing with what you've been told is toy and not shoot him in the dead. Likewise I don't think it's a stupid risk to use restraint when dealing with a 7 year old old and you're not sure you've raided the right apartment and not shoot her in the head. Or if a man you've randomly pulled over informs you he's got a license for a gun and reaches to show to use use restraint and not just assume he must be reaching for the gun and instantly shoot him at point blank range. Funny how cops have a 'no risk' attitude when he comes to black people but are fine using restraint to take white mass shooters like Dylan Roof alive.

So what? This is a moot point. This has nothing to do with the Rittenhouse situation or the fact people tried to kill him. The police were not involved in the incident. I am not sure every scenario you are talking about...but I bet they are also different police departments. Stop bringing up completely different situations to justify thinking its ok to kill people you don't agree with. I am not sure if you noticed, but that's what you are doing is blaming a victim of assault and attempted murder for defending himself.

Leo656

11-21-2021, 12:49 AM

Galactus: If it makes you feel any better I wouldn't be incredibly upset if Rittenhouse had gotten shot and killed, either. I think ultimately every one of these people we're talking about should've been home reading a goddamn book.

I honestly don't know a ton about Rittenhouse as a person or his history before "the incident" so I can't honestly speak to that. I did however happen in the past to have read a lot about the other guys and the things I bring up about them aren't so much suppositions about their character, but simple facts of being. Floyd WAS high on drugs, Trayvon WAS previously busted with tools for breaking into cars (as well as stolen property most likely procured during same), and so on. If I knew more about the Rittenhouse guy I'd have more to say about him. But I've been busy. Those other things happened during periods of time where I had a lot more free time to go poking around about such things, and so I have a little bit more to say about Those Guys than This Guy insofar as what I think of their character.

Please bear this in mind as well, for whatever it's worth: I feel more free to make suppositions and assumptions about guys like Floyd and Martin because I've known a lot of people like them, even if not those specific people personally. I never knew anyone who got themselves into an incident like Rittenhouse did. I can't even begin to assume what was in his head in that case. But I've known plenty of George Floyds and Trayvon Martins, it's just that most of them are still alive. Maybe that's "profiling", maybe it's just a person applying their life experience when forming a judgment on a situation. That's how I prefer to look at it, since it's a thing we all do whether we admit to doing it or not.

So for whatever it may be worth, where I come from if a person gets busted with a tool for breaking into cars, and within the same week just happens to go out walking in the rain because "they just wanted some Skittles"... one automatically assumes sinister intent, yes. Maybe that isn't fair, but that's how life typically works for many people. We make judgments based on our own life's experiences.

I never knew anybody who shot a few people at a riot, though, so if I ever do I'll be sure and project my assumptions onto this situation retroactively. I simply don't feel entirely qualified to do so at this point. I do feel qualified to jump to certain conclusions in those other cases though. Whether that makes me a bad person or not, well... I can only call it like I see it.

My issues with Floyd and Martin are ultimately that many people paint them as innocent victims or martyrs, while the actual facts simply do not bear that out. Again, it doesn't mean they "deserved" to die but it does support the idea that the mainstream narrative about who they were is somewhat false. They WERE engaged in criminal behavior and they DID escalate the circumstances of the situations they were in to a degree where it caused them to die. So I have always felt compelled to point out - fairly or unfairly - that we should really remember the WHOLE story about them, not just the fact they died questionably. They may have been "victims" but they were not exactly "innocent". And I do feel like it's important that people keep that in mind.

On the flipside, I don't see too many people calling Rittenhouse a hero, so I feel less compelled to comment on the hypocrisy of trying to paint him as such since I haven't really seen it happen. He did kill a scumbag but he did so by accident, so even then it's more like a "happy accident" than anything, it's not like he meant for that. I know SOME people are calling him a hero but I think that's rather silly, too.

Not to come off as confrontational towards YOU, or anything, I'm simply explaining.

IndigoErth

11-21-2021, 02:14 AM

Its not self defense when you chase someone down trying to murder them... and Gaige needs to be charged with attempted murder, illegal possession of a firearm by a convicted felon & probably a few other things.
From what I have heard, no, he didn't chase him down to try to murder him, utter hogwash. From what I've seen supposedly Gaige Grosskreutz either was or had been a paramedic or some kind of medical training and was there to try to help that night, responding when he heard gun shots and heading toward it as any person trained like a first responder might do. So what was HE really supposed to think when he shows up and some kid has already shot people? He's somehow supposed to be psychic and know this kid is a "good guy with a gun"? Because at the moment he probably looked the total opposite. Though Gaige Grosskreutz supposedly had his own gun in hand, he stated and there was supposedly video evidence that he initially had his hands up, not pointed at Riddenhouse, when first approaching him. He wasn't looking to hurt this kid. He could have very well grabbed his own gun with his other hand and fired at him after he himself was shot, but he didn't.

Maybe the two other guys were kind of scummy (though in things unrelated to this so Rittenhouse isn't exactly any rightful executioner of them) and the first sounds to have been acting rather aggressive in general that night even before that incident so he himself was pretty much looking for trouble, too, but Grosskreutz... No, I don't buy any narrative that his own intentions were bad or that he was after him or that his own right to self defense against Rittenhouse wouldn't or shouldn't have been defended had he shot back. I heard stated that he wasn't even called in to testify, he himself chose to. To demonize this guy who does not sound like he had bad intentions and NOT defend one "good guy with a gun" out of bias and preference to make another one a "hero" for killing people is pretty messed up.

I don't think Rittenhouse was some evil kid wanting to hurt people, but I think he was an extremely stupid one who probably wanted to feel like a big man and thought he saw an opportunity to go pretend to be when his ass should have just stayed out of that and let that community handle its own problem.

Vegita-San

11-21-2021, 06:08 AM

mark ruffalo is officially insane. at least twitter is turning against him.

Sumac

11-21-2021, 08:45 AM

I don't want to come off as confrontational on this but it was you that first brought up the example of unarmed black people that people have drawn comparisons to should have had more "common sense".
If you look intently at majority of those killings of those "innocent Black men" you will find out that most acted like idiots, when confronted with cops. Or they were outright were criminals and actively resisted officers.

While the jostling to 'control the narrative' in these kinds of situations is a natural reaction to the very polarised political climate we're living in right now I do think it does some have some baring on the legalities of a cases particularly when the involve juries and grey areas such the nature of self defense and laws against provoking violence. Like if the video of him beating up a young girl or his bragging about wanting to shoot people days before this incident had been out there more maybe a jury would have been more incline to see him for the scumbag he is and maybe he bares some legal responsibility for what happened after all.
This logic as is good as saying that "George "Saint Fentanyl" Floyd had deserved to die, because, he was taking drugs" at some point in his life.

We are not talking about what person did or did not at some in their life. We are talking about moment that had happened then and there.

I'm aware of that but Rittenhouse is quite politically engaged even at 17 years old and staunchly on the right. He and family would surely have known who these people were and what they stood for. There were tons of Conservatives of all stripes that were offering him support why did he chose to go party with actual white supremecists. Hell, why even do that with anyone at all? Whether he thinks what he did was legal or not he still killed two people. Whooping it up is probably not the best look.
You are arguing in bad faith and mixing two unconnected narratives, because, you don't have any arguments to back your worldview up.

Kyle and his family being conservatives has nothing to do with him killing people.

By this logic, I can argue that presence of insane pedophile at the BLM rally, means that being pedophile is inherent part of left political beliefs.

Celebrating Kyle as a hero...well, he killed two thugs in self-defense, which was justified, according to the law. Said thugs would have killed him and brought about who know much property damage, robbing people from their livelihoods (which, I guess, doesn't count, as long as it is not YOUR property their destroy).

Also, considering that a lot of people see BLM as domestic terrorists who destroy everything in their way, like swarm of locusts, it makes sense why people rally to defend Kyle and see him as someone who was not afraid to oppose BLM terror.

Of course, if you believe, that defending rights of Blacks, give rioters right to rob and burn and kill everyone who is unfortunate to end up in their way...for some reason, you might see things the other way. Which is rather hilarious way, when you think about it for two seconds and stop watching CNN.

I don't know if he's a sociopath. I do know that he is a thug that beats up woman and thought he could play act as some militia guy until something genuinely happened and decided he couldn't hack it.
Killing two people in self-defense, doesn't count as "hack it"? Should he killed the whole crowd for you to start think that he is serious business?

Also, bringing Kyle's actions from the past makes as much sense as bringing past of those "innocent killed Black people" or "Kyle's innocent victims".

Funny how cops have a 'no risk' attitude when he comes to black people but are fine using restraint to take white mass shooters like Dylan Roof alive.
Hm, could it be, because, Blacks has certain history of acting like fools around cops?

Whether Kyle Rittenhouse did something illegal is one argument but he killed two people. He's definitely done things wrong...like a lot of things way, way wrong.
Him saving his life is wrong? What kind of drugs are you taking, kid?

Also, if you was facing choice to kill or be killed, what you'd prefer?
And how'd react, if people then told you, that your actions "were a mistake and you should have let yourself be killed, because, it is not a good look on their ideology"?

I don't expect any answers from you, because, like other lefties, when confronted with real questions you run away, because, you are a coward, who knows he can't answer them without being a massive hypocrite and twisting facts so much that it would become obvious you are using double standards, something, lefties claim only people on the Right are doing.

Bahamut810

11-21-2021, 08:48 AM

I honestly don't know a ton about Rittenhouse as a person or his history before "the incident" so I can't honestly speak to that.

Per his testimony (and if I remember right)...He was a Jr Firefighter, a Jr Police officer, he was a life guard with basic medical training, he had been volunteering to clean up graffiti in his community and he had volunteered to put out fires to try to save as much of a POC owned business as possible.

From what I have heard, no, he didn't chase him down to try to murder him, utter hogwash. From what I've seen supposedly Gaige Grosskreutz either was or had been a paramedic or some kind of medical training and was there to try to help that night, responding when he heard gun shots and heading toward it as any person trained like a first responder might do. So what was HE really supposed to think when he shows up and some kid has already shot people? He's somehow supposed to be psychic and know this kid is a "good guy with a gun"? Because at the moment he probably looked the total opposite. Though Gaige Grosskreutz supposedly had his own gun in hand, he stated and there was supposedly video evidence that he initially had his hands up, not pointed at Riddenhouse, when first approaching him. He wasn't looking to hurt this kid. He could have very well grabbed his own gun with his other hand and fired at him after he himself was shot, but he didn't.

He was there that night as a paramedic. As a note that does not apply to the night, he has a long line of domestic abuse charges on him. He was in illegal possession of a concealed gun that he didn't have the paperwork to conceal. Per the video footage, he started on his way to the shooting and head the mob accusing Rittenhouse of shooting someone, he took video footage of him chasing Rittenhouse and asking him a few questions before breaking off to check on who may have been shot. He changes his mind, takes out his gun and starts going back after Rittenhouse. When Rittenhouse is knocked over and the second guy is shot he pretends to surrender...then changes his mind and *AS HE ADMITS* points the gun directly at Rittenhouses head when his bicep is removed. He then ran away yelling for a medic and physically could not release the gun because his arm was messed up. All of this happened as Rittenhouse was running towards police that you can see in the background of some of the shots. He heard a mob make accusations and was going to kill a person defending themselves because they didn't submit to mob justice. Even if he thought he was doing right...but he was not.

mrmaczaps

11-21-2021, 01:31 PM

From what I have heard, no, he didn't chase him down to try to murder him, utter hogwash. From what I've seen supposedly Gaige Grosskreutz either was or had been a paramedic or some kind of medical training and was there to try to help that night, responding when he heard gun shots and heading toward it as any person trained like a first responder might do. So what was HE really supposed to think when he shows up and some kid has already shot people? He's somehow supposed to be psychic and know this kid is a "good guy with a gun"? Because at the moment he probably looked the total opposite. Though Gaige Grosskreutz supposedly had his own gun in hand, he stated and there was supposedly video evidence that he initially had his hands up, not pointed at Riddenhouse, when first approaching him. He wasn't looking to hurt this kid. He could have very well grabbed his own gun with his other hand and fired at him after he himself was shot, but he didn't.

Maybe the two other guys were kind of scummy (though in things unrelated to this so Rittenhouse isn't exactly any rightful executioner of them) and the first sounds to have been acting rather aggressive in general that night even before that incident so he himself was pretty much looking for trouble, too, but Grosskreutz... No, I don't buy any narrative that his own intentions were bad or that he was after him or that his own right to self defense against Rittenhouse wouldn't or shouldn't have been defended had he shot back. I heard stated that he wasn't even called in to testify, he himself chose to. To demonize this guy who does not sound like he had bad intentions and NOT defend one "good guy with a gun" out of bias and preference to make another one a "hero" for killing people is pretty messed up.

I don't think Rittenhouse was some evil kid wanting to hurt people, but I think he was an extremely stupid one who probably wanted to feel like a big man and thought he saw an opportunity to go pretend to be when his ass should have just stayed out of that and let that community handle its own problem.

Gaige was shouting kill him... get him... kill him. Over and over. He literally was the bangwagon guy to get the others to chase Kyle down. So yeah, he did in fact chase Kyle down with intent to harm/kill him. And again, the illegally concealed firearm he had.... Gaige had not been any kind of medic for years, likely due to his criminal record. No more "official" than Kyle himself. Video shows Gaige approach in a violent manor but put his hands up at first because Kyle had his rifle out & then soon as Kyle drops the rifle back down, he grabs his gun & then Kyle pops his arm making it impossible for Gaige to shoot at that point. May want to rewatch the evidence because its blatantly obvious Gaige meant Kyle harm &/or imminent death.... not to mention his deleted fb post stating his wished he hadn't hesitated & he had "unloaded the full clip" into him... siding with known convicted felons is not a great look....

Kenosha IS Kyle's community. He works there, his dad & family lives there and his friends all live there. Facts matter. Too bad the msm just peddles in bullsh!t & lies to rally support for criminals.

IMJ

11-21-2021, 05:20 PM

Gaige was shouting kill him... get him... kill him. Over and over. He literally was the bangwagon guy to get the others to chase Kyle down. So yeah, he did in fact chase Kyle down with intent to harm/kill him. And again, the illegally concealed firearm he had.... Gaige had not been any kind of medic for years, likely due to his criminal record. No more "official" than Kyle himself. Video shows Gaige approach in a violent manor but put his hands up at first because Kyle had his rifle out & then soon as Kyle drops the rifle back down, he grabs his gun & then Kyle pops his arm making it impossible for Gaige to shoot at that point. May want to rewatch the evidence because its blatantly obvious Gaige meant Kyle harm &/or imminent death.... not to mention his deleted fb post stating his wished he hadn't hesitated & he had "unloaded the full clip" into him... siding with known convicted felons is not a great look....

Kenosha IS Kyle's community. He works there, his dad & family lives there and his friends all live there. Facts matter. Too bad the msm just peddles in bullsh!t & lies to rally support for criminals.

Why are you trying to clear up her "understanding"?

She's clearly more informed than an educated court judge and an entire panel of peers who heard the case details and acquitted that kid.

She must be more informed - I mean even in the face of video evidence she's computed another explanation for this injustice of the court system. :roll:

This is all play pretend "conversation". There is NO. Reasonable. Person. who would say this kid shouldn't have been acquitted.

ProphetofGanja

11-21-2021, 05:44 PM

IMJ

11-21-2021, 05:54 PM

This is all just scripted distraction (https://www.instagram.com/p/CWfIJpSgJDa/?utm_source=ig_web_copy_link)

The real story is the trial of Ghislaine Maxwell and everyone that will be implicated as a result

I don't buy the scripted distraction part. Basically at all.

But that aside, yeah man, I do buy that the Ghislaine thing has vanished from the news cycle and public consciousness and that is one of the most politically relevant things is going on right now.

It's unreal that it's vanished from the board. It should be being discussed daily with updates and baited breath.

Mayhem

11-22-2021, 12:52 AM

Why do you support pedophiles & convicted felons? Are you a commie fvcking terrorist? You don't even know what you're talking about.
I don't see how the background of the people in question should massively matter here, but of course it does in swinging opinion in the case. Someone I know went to jail here for 3 months for failing to pay child custody payments in a massive dispute with his ex (basically she was raping it from him while also living with a new guy she left him for who was earning three times as much as he was), you saying because he was convicted, he's more deserving to die? That's how it comes across.

Completely agree about the Maxwell trial. Sod this, that one needs the dedicated coverage.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/qymcai/the_kicker_is_that_they_put_the_r1tt3nh0use_trial/

mrmaczaps

11-22-2021, 09:57 AM

I don't see how the background of the people in question should massively matter here, but of course it does in swinging opinion in the case. Someone I know went to jail here for 3 months for failing to pay child custody payments in a massive dispute with his ex (basically she was raping it from him while also living with a new guy she left him for who was earning three times as much as he was), you saying because he was convicted, he's more deserving to die? That's how it comes across.

Completely agree about the Maxwell trial. Sod this, that one needs the dedicated coverage.

https://www.reddit.com/r/conspiracy/comments/qymcai/the_kicker_is_that_they_put_the_r1tt3nh0use_trial/

Nope. Not saying he deserved to die because he was a pedo. Or convicted felons for the other two. They do however deserve to get shot for attacking someone else who was carrying a firearm. Their previous convictions do matter because its why they attacked him. They saw him as an easy target & failed to take his rifle & got shot for their stupidity. If you attack someone with a firearm, you do not value your own life. None of the violent attackers should have been free men, out on the streets.

Andrew NDB

11-22-2021, 10:54 AM

"Are you saying because he was a convicted pedo he deserved to die right there, that night?!?!"

No. But attacking someone and threatening their life -- particularly someone visibly carrying a gun -- you are definitely voluntarily forfeiting a guarantee of your continuing living. At your own peril. Pedo or otherwise. I really don't understand why this is such difficult math.

IMJ

11-22-2021, 11:05 AM

I don't see how the background of the people in question should massively matter here

Well, this is because people tend to exhibit cross-temporal-continuity and past behavior tends to be a marker of future behavior, if not a total predictor. And so when someone who did off-kilter criminal things in the past does something else that is problematic it helps people see the truth of a situation in contrast to the rest of the situation. That's how it matters massively, everywhere.

you saying because he was convicted, he's more deserving to die?

I don't think anyone is saying this. But I am saying now that your words there are a reflective tactic using a disingenuous, manipulative strawman point. Your words are a walking lie that tries to cultivate favor through reader-sympathy and cultivate a "win" through guilt-making finger pointing. It's a bull $#!( point you made.

Hopefully now you aren't so far gone in that tactic that your next strawman would be to say that because of my reply to you here that it's now evidence that I think "convicts deserve to die". Complete bull $#!(, man. C'mon.

I really don't understand why this is such difficult math.

It isn't. It's was a reply of manipulation. You are assuming that he was being 100% genuine and maybe he was, but just as readily there could be an entire world of his own personal reasons and motivation for the manipulative point he used.

Sumac

11-22-2021, 11:24 AM

Its not that those people deserved to die, but as has been said here, their past behavior is very much an indication of their behavior in the future, so no-one should be surprised that for them things ended up as their did.

As for that trial, well, no wonder that it have been put under the carpet - there are too many people in the highest places involved and, if truth would come out, especially in the digital age, it will be hard to hide and who knows what it leads to.

Granted I do not expect revolutions and riots, but at the very least, shake up might be so massive that it will bring about the end of some governments and elite circles, which will create power vacuum.

Andrew NDB

11-22-2021, 12:08 PM

Yeah, "deserving to die" has absolutely nothing to do with it and is asking the wrong question. Zero. People are making themselves sound like clowns for suggesting that. The right question is, "Was it understandable/reasonable why the people that were shot that day were shot?"

The answer is overwhelmingly yes. Also, an unfortunate consequence of getting shot is also that often times you will die. This doesn't somehow change the answer.

1987

11-22-2021, 12:39 PM

the commies have spoken

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1462185108107104257

“the only solution is communist revolution”

of course they would riot in portland

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1461948525466603520

fascist antifa members very angry that armed citizens are allowed to fight back against them. hollywood clowns like steve carrell and seth rogen love bailing out anyone arrested at these “peaceful protests”

this proves that the left is the party of organized crime, looters hit several stores in california over the weekend as a form of “reparations” over the Rittenhouse verdict

https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1462462393376813057

the left supports these criminals and anti-american scumbags.

man i hate commies

Andrew NDB

11-22-2021, 12:40 PM

"Do as we say or we'll burn our own liberal cities to the ground! We mean it! We'll do it!" :lol:

Coola Yagami

11-22-2021, 12:45 PM

1987

11-22-2021, 12:51 PM

Honestly, anyone looting and rioting deserve what they get. A store owner might shoot you. The cops might mow you down. Your fellow looters/rioters might attack you. If that's what you want to get mixed up, understand the chance exists you might not make it home that night. And if you don't, well that's too bad.

Agreed.

I honestly don't see why the cops don't just mow em all down, regardless of race (in case someone wants to turn this into a race thing). An example must be made.

these particular lootings happened in communist california, where the democrat politicians love criminals and the DA’s are soft on crime. theres videos of black guys in sf walking into a store with face coverings on, grabbing a bunch of merchandise, and walking out peacefully without paying, no arrests made because it would be racist, even if they do arrest it’s usually a “catch and release” and the same criminals will be back out on the streets in no time

https://mobile.twitter.com/stillgray/status/1459261738877022211?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1459261738877022211%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fpatriots.win%2Fp%2F140IicTAI u%2Fi-have-no-more-****s-to-give%2Fc%2F

https://mobile.twitter.com/lyannemelendez/status/1404574079156318210

the left pretty much encouraged this type of behavior with the introduction of mandatory face coverings, and now they are encouraging all the violent aftermath we’re seeing after the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict, using their usual “white supremacy” narrative.

Sumac

11-22-2021, 02:25 PM

"Do as we say or we'll burn our own liberal cities to the ground! We mean it! We'll do it!" :lol:
"But we are not like Nazis who will hurt anyone who disagrees with them!" :lol:
If there is a one thing commies good at is a lack of self-reflection.

Honestly, anyone looting and rioting deserve what they get. A store owner might shoot you. The cops might mow you down. Your fellow looters/rioters might attack you. If that's what you want to get mixed up, understand the chance exists you might not make it home that night. And if you don't, well that's too bad.
I think, this lefty reaction at Kyle's trial is not only, because, someone was killed at BLM rally, but, because, it demonstrates, that BLM and other left-trash don't have legal or any other immunity and that people can and will defend themselves, meaning that all those basement provocateurs, "male feminists", blue haired landwhales and others can be shot during another riot and their murderer will get away scot free.

This case demonstrates to the lefties (in their minds at least), that people do not afraid of them and do not afraid to use any means to fight them back. And lefties painfully afraid when they don't control something or someone can show them worthy resistance.

Their whole ideology and MO based on the idea of terror - scare people into submission, via riots or twatter cancelling and force people to give them power to create even more terror. In this aspect they are no different than any other group of terrorists, just unlike some freaks from Taliban, they are not hiding in some shitholes in desert, but live right next to unsuspecting normal people, which makes them much more dangerous.

these particular lootings happened in communist california, where the democrat politicians love criminals and the DA’s are soft on crime. theres videos of black guys in sf walking into a store with face coverings on, grabbing a bunch of merchandise, and walking out peacefully without paying, no arrests made because it would be racist, even if they do arrest it’s usually a “catch and release” and the same criminals will be back out on the streets in no time
It gets better:
Shoplifting in San Francisco is so out of control that retailers are closing stores (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/san-francisco-shoplifting-walgreens-closing-b1852470.html)
Its a relatively old article from May of this year, but I feel little had changed.

Twice as funny that a lot of people leaving Commifornia for other states, because, their policies turned this state to ****. But at the new place they are trying to re-create the same policies, which turned Commifornia to **** in the first place. Which brings us back to the idea of lefties (and zealots in general) lacking ability to self-reflect.

Mayhem

11-23-2021, 09:56 AM

Hopefully now you aren't so far gone in that tactic that your next strawman would be to say that because of my reply to you here that it's now evidence that I think "convicts deserve to die". Complete bull $#!(, man. C'mon.
Your opinion and post did come across as that, yes, which is why I made my comment.

But overall, yes, their backgrounds shouldn't be a factor here, just their actions on the night in question. Plenty of convicted felons don't go back to crime. Conversely I'm sure the vast majority of people who were there in the riots had no criminal record at al..

Vegita-San

11-23-2021, 10:10 AM

Now, THIS is interesting. something I did not know. Why is a black guy, charged with the exact same thing, Not being on trial here by hollywood?

If THIS doesn't show you how insane hollywood is, nothing will.

85269fn0swI

mrmaczaps

11-23-2021, 10:22 AM

Your opinion and post did come across as that, yes, which is why I made my comment.

But overall, yes, their backgrounds shouldn't be a factor here, just their actions on the night in question. Plenty of convicted felons don't go back to crime. Conversely I'm sure the vast majority of people who were there in the riots had no criminal record at al..

Again, their past crimes are relevant because they all previously attacked & harmed people they felt were easy prey... much like they thought when they decided to attack Kyle... they were criminals and they acted criminally while already doing more bad, by being involved in rioting. Rioting is not legal. Setting a dumpster on fire and pushing it towards a gas station is not "peaceful protesting", its illegal rioting. Its relevant to them then later attacking with physical force, a minor, simply because they seemed to think he would be an easy target... the pedo died doing what he loved, chasing a minor... skater boi died doing what he loved, trying to kill someone... last guy, illegally armed felon at a riot.... jerkin it left handed now...

Plenty of convicted felons do turn their lives around and avoid being at riots or chasing down armed people yelling "kill him, get him"... and they don't get shot either...

IMJ

11-23-2021, 11:40 AM

Your opinion and post did come across as that, yes, which is why I made my comment.

My post? MY post?

Where, specifically is my post that "comes across as 'because he's a convict he deserves to die"?

Please quote it here. Put the quote here where I said this.

But overall, yes, their backgrounds shouldn't be a factor here, just their actions on the night in question. Plenty of convicted felons don't go back to crime. Conversely I'm sure the vast majority of people who were there in the riots had no criminal record at al..

Someone's background becomes a part of the public conversation when they've wronged or injured someone. This has nothing to do with the convicted felons that don't go back to crime, but it does have to do with those that do go back to crime and therefore create patterns and explanations for their current behaviour. By your account every wrong would lead to some "fresh reset" for the next wrong. That's ridiculous.

But again, more importantly, put the quote here where you are saying that "my post comes across" as saying that because a convicted felon was involved that he deserved to die'. Put the quote here.

AquaParade

11-23-2021, 01:37 PM

joe-eyeball

11-23-2021, 01:42 PM

IMJ

11-23-2021, 01:43 PM

Quite honestly, Rittenhouse seems unable to think for himself. Everything he says in interviews, or on the stand (which I get to a stronger degree) sounds 100% rehearsed and stiff.

Not saying that makes him guilty or something, I just can’t stand watching him talk, because it feels really odd and fake. He also does this thing where his mouth keeps moving after he finishes sounding out his word. Am I the only one getting a weird kick out of this?

He's an 18 year old kid. Regardless of the legal definition of "18" in this country, anyone in adulthood who has interacted with kids around that age knows that 18 year olds still reside in "kid mentality".

My point?

He's rehearsed and practiced for his own survival and accountability. Of course there are some mouth-breathers out there who view rehearsal as a sign of guilt (I'm not saying you, Aqua) but other people call it preparation to overcome nerves or to create credibility.

For anyone on the fence about that, there's nothing wrong with coaching your responses.

Of course it’s rehearsed! He still has multiple lawsuits for defamation that are likely to pop up! So he has to watch what he says. The optics might seem odd but it’s exactly what anyone would do if directly in his shoes today

Looks like you and I crossed posts but yes. Absolutely. And well said about the optics.

On another note, I'm still waiting for the evidence where "my" post came off as sounding like ex-cons deserve to die". You better produce that and it better be clear because I will never forget that slander. Ever.