When does a game become "retro"?

[Prowler]

As someone who has interacted with a lot of retrogamers online throughout the years, this is a discussion that occasionally pops up. When does a game become "retro"? And there's always some different answers. It's not a set in stone definition/label.

Personally, I consider every system up until the GameCube and the original Xbox to be retro nowadays. Not including the PS2 because it only died around 2013 or so. No way a game that came out in the 2010s is retro. So, I'd say PS2 games stop being until around 2006 or so?

I definitely do not consider the Wii, 360 and PS3 generation as being retro yet. Their early games are already quite old by now, but when I played Super Mario Galaxy a few years ago, I did not for one moment feel that I was playing a retrogame. Its graphics and gameplay mechanics didn't feel retro to me at all.

I'd say it's a combination of age and gameplay mechanics. Some games age better than others graphically and gameplay wise. F-Zero GX looks impressive for a 2003 GameCube game, but it came out almost 20 years ago already. So I can't help but consider it retro. Super Smash Bros. Melee also has aged pretty well, but it's definitely retro in my mind.

I won't deny the fact I was 11-13 when most of my favourite GameCube games came out plays a factor into my definition of retro. While I was still a kid at the time, I was already 2 weeks away from turning 17 when Super Mario Galaxy came out. The year of 2007 doesn't really feel like something from a past era of my life to me like the years of 2005 and before do.

I guess I can understand why someone who's 20 would consider the original Wii to be retrogaming by now. I first came across the term retrogaming when I was 15 or so on the Internet around 2005. That's when a lot of renewed interest from 80s and 90s games was starting to pop up due to 20+ year old gamers at the time now having nostalgia for the games they grew up with on the NES, SNES and Mega Drive. And now a lot of people were on the Internet and a large enough market to buy used games had developed and those people were now old enough to have disposable income to order those games from ebay and the likes.

What about you? What do you think?

[FredWolfLeonardo]

Its weird how there are some extremely old games out there which don't feel retro to me at all. One example is the Original Counter-Strike, which first came out in 1999.

It has very dated graphics by today's standards, but what keeps me from considering it retro is the fact that it still has an active online community. I'm no gaming historian, but It boggles my mind how a game from 1999 still has active servers in 2022.

When I think of retro games, console games come to mind more than pc games. Since older console games are harder to come by outside of emulation, and don' t have the online support of pc games (modding, updates, dedicated servers etc.).

[Prowler]

Its weird how there are some extremely old games out there which don't feel retro to me at all. One example is the Original Counter-Strike, which first came out in 1999.

It has very dated graphics by today's standards, but what keeps me from considering retro is the fact that it still has an active online community. I'm no gaming historian, but It boggles my mind how a game from 1999 still has active servers in 2022.
Well I've e ever played CS, so I can't comment on that.

But, as someone born in 1990 who grew up playing games on my older brother's systems, I can say that NES games always felt old to me, even if they weren't that old at the time. SNES games were current when I was 4-5 years old. Then came the Saturn and the N64 shortly afterwards and my jaw hit the floor. "WOW 3D GAMES!" was my thought. With Super Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time I thought gaming had reached the pinnacle. Ofc I still played the SNES occasionally but clearly I was more obsessed with the latest 3d games. And when the GameCube and the PS2 came out I was now playing 3d games with more modern graphics and gameplay mechanics.

Wasn't until 2006 or so that I started to play 8 bit and 16 bit games again. Not just the ones I grew up with, but also the ones I had missed out on.

So yeah, whenever someone calls the PS2 or the Wii retrogaming I feel rather old. Retrogaming to me is the Atari, the NES, the original Game Boy, the Game Gear, the Master System, etc. The Mega Drive also feels more retro than me than the SNES. To be fair it came out in 1989, the year before I was born.

Sure, the SNES is definitely retrogaming for me, but still looks presentable and more up to date to me than the NES or even the Saturn and N64 do. The SNES was the epitome of 2D gaming.

I guess someone born in 1978 also feels old when younger generations call the SNES and Mega Drive retro nowadays.

[FredWolfLeonardo]

It is funny how that works indeed, really good looking 2D games generally feel newer than 3D games which came out later, but during a time when 3D games were new so they don't age well graphically. Its the same when comparing older 2D animated films to the first CGI animated films.

You mentioned Super Smash Bros Melee, that game has seen a revival of sorts since many more computers are able to run it via emulation, and even have online support through netplay. When you combine that with Melee's graphics which still hold up pretty well to this day, as well as the still massive esports scene for the game, I don't personally see it as retro for that reason.

And I have to agree that the year 2007 doesn't feel like the past years for gaming in general, and part of that was probably because it was a huge jump in online console gaming. The Xbox 360 and ps3 were both picking up in sales, and their online multiplayer was revolutionary for a console at the time.

It cannot be understated how games like Call of Duty 4 and Halo 3 absolutely pushed online console gaming to a new level. I never played Halo 3, but I can speak from experience that you can still find Call of Duty 4 servers on ps3, something that once again keeps me from considering games of the ps3/360 generation as retro.

[Prowler]

I played some Melee a few years ago again and the game doesn't feel like it has aged a day. The only thing that makes it a bit harder to go back to is its rather small roster compared to Smash 3DS/Wii U and obviously Smash Ultimate. But back then, it felt like a massive roster. Non-nintendo characters were not expected in Smash at the time still. And I didn't know who the hell Marth and Roy were until then nor did anyone outside of Japan, for that matter. So that made the roster seem even bigger.

I've been replaying F-Zero X since it came out on the N64 Switch Online service recently. The game definitely looks like a racing game from its time, but it's not hurtful to look at and still plays very well. It's definitely retro though. Meanwhile, F-Zero GX on the GameCube was already very groahicalky impressive for its time and it doesn't look that old in 2022 still either. Its not retro graphically or gameplay wise, but it definitely is in age. I was 13 when it came out ffs.

Well, by late 2006 I was turning 16 and my personality started to develop into what I'm like today. I was still a kid, but clearly my mind was changing. By the time summer 2008 came in, after I graduated HS, I was pretty much getting closer to what I am today.


Basically, 16-17 was a phase of my life where I was a still but no longer living through my childhood. Wasn't so innocent anymore nor did I get easily impressed any more. I'm sure that plays a part into having trouble considering games that came out after 2006 as being retro.

[Turo602]

I don't think the quality of a game in relation to modern standards necessarily dictates what's retro. The Wii/PS3/360 generation is definitely retro now because it is no longer being sold in stores and hasn't been for a long time. Children have grown up with these consoles as their first and have become adults since.

For a lot of us, that generation of gaming feels modern and has come and gone in the recent past. But for others, it's what the N64 and original Playstation was to us when we were playing Halo 3 online and watching blu-rays from our PS3s. This stuff feels pretty standard now, but it's been nearly 2 decades since all that stuff first came out.

Back then, they had the virtual console and Xbox Live Arcade so we could play retro games from the NES all the way to the N64. Today, we can now purchase original Xbox and Xbox 360 games from the Microsoft Store via backwards compatibility, but a lot of it is still inaccessible and being lost to time and requires you to track down the original hardware, just like every other retro game.

[Prowler]

I don't think the quality of a game in relation to modern standards necessarily dictates what's retro. The Wii/PS3/360 generation is definitely retro now because it is no longer being sold in stores and hasn't been for a long time. Children have grown up with these consoles as their first and have become adults since.

For a lot of us, that generation of gaming feels modern and has come and gone in the recent past. But for others, it's what the N64 and original Playstation was to us when we were playing Halo 3 online and watching blu-rays from our PS3s. This stuff feels pretty standard now, but it's been nearly 2 decades since all that stuff first came out.

Back then, they had the virtual console and Xbox Live Arcade so we could play retro games from the NES all the way to the N64. Today, we can now purchase original Xbox and Xbox 360 games from the Microsoft Store via backwards compatibility, but a lot of it is still inaccessible and being lost to time and requires you to track down the original hardware, just like every other retro game.

You make a good point about games no longer being sold in stores. I've definitely seen that argument before as well. Though, iirc, original Xbox games and GameCube games quickly disappeared from stores almost as soon as the 360 and the original Wii came out. At least that's how it was here. I know you added the "and hasn't been for a long time" bit, but not everyone who uses that argument does it, and this is more directed at them than at you lol

You're also right about the whole Blu-Ray thing already being rather old by now and having to track down some Xbox and 360 games like you're tracking down a game from the SNES era.

I just feel the jump in terms of graphics and gameplay mechanics from the Wii/360/PS3 generation to the current generation of consoles isn't as big as the jump between other generations in the past. I can pretty much boot up Super Mario Galaxy 1 and 2 and feel like I'm playing a game that's only a few years old. Doesn't feel like I'm playing something retro.

It's all a matter of personal perspectives and "feelings", I suppose. And our age comes into factor as well.

[Andrew NDB]

NES-PS2 era games are retro, IMO. PS3 and up seem modernish and often get upscaled versions because their engines are already friendly for doing so.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

When it comes to popular culture:

A couple of years ago are still relevant.

10 years ago are almost forgotten and considered old and out.

20 years ago are nostalgia and experiences a Renaissance, or in the world of video gaming, retro.

[sdp]

The rule is current gen -> previous gen (old but not retro) --> any gem before the precious gen is retro.

So right now PS3/360/Wii are retro but not PS4/Wii U. But it's not a golden rule, especially with consoles lasting longer than before and PC never changing, so any game that is 10 years+ for the most part is retro. It needs to pass through a few years of the game being just "old" before it becomes retro though. GTA4? Retro, GTA5? Just old we need a new game.

I remember when people used to say Retro would only ever be 2D consoles and that the N64/PS1 would never be retro. Later it was accepted as retro and they said PS2/Xbox/Gamecube would never be retro, and now they're considered retro. PS3/360 games already look very dated, they're definitely retro, give it a few more years and people will agree that they're retro and the same debate will go on with the PS4 eventually.

The jump between générations stopped being as big but youre blind if you don't see the differences between a 2012 game and a 2022 release, just physics alone have changed things.
Gaming not being innovative has nothing to do with a game being retro or not.
Again for s while people said retro was only pints based games like arcade titles from the 80s and before and later that 3D meant it wasn't retro anymore etc, definitions have changed as kids age and they see their games as retro because they're old and anything before they were boen as retro. Just because you're an adult and 10 years go as fast as 10 months did when you were young doesn't mean time isn't passing.

[Powder]

NES-PS2 era games are retro, IMO. PS3 and up seem modernish and often get upscaled versions because their engines are already friendly for doing so.

Yeah, I agree with this, I think.

[oldmanwinters]

10 years ago are almost forgotten and considered old and out.

Now is a good time for buying Wii and 3DS physical copies!

[Turo602]

I think where the perception that the 7th generation of consoles can't be retro stems from the fact that the 7th generation was around for damn near a decade and shaped a lot of what modern gaming has become.

We can thank Arkham Asylum for killing licensed movie tie-in games. Halo, Call of Duty, and Battlefield proved online multiplayer shooters were more fruitful than single player games. Meanwhile, Assassin's Creed was popularizing open world action games. DLC was also a major component of this generation and is now commonplace, as well as online subscriptions and digital marketplaces.

There's definitely a lot of overlap between retro and modern within this generation simply because of how quickly the industry was evolving throughout those 8 years that separates modern games like Halo 4, The Last of Us, and GTA V from games like Halo 3, Uncharted, and GTA IV.

Highlighting how similar this generation of gaming is to modern gaming diminishes all the ways in which they are unique and how much the trends in gaming have shifted and changed since then, which has made it just as nostalgic as any other retro era.

Online was fresh and we got a lot of co-op games because of it. Today, co-op isn't much of a priority and is becoming more niche in an industry dominated by either single player open world and narrative driven games or online multiplayer games as a service experiences. Even the days of movie tie-ins and licensed games seem to have died here as the industry keeps moving towards triple A experiences, leaving indie devs to fill the gap of double A games licensed games used to fill.

The 7th generation gave us so many new IPs and tons of sequels and that output hasn't been nearly the same with games now having much longer development cycles.

From 2005 - 2013 we got 4 Halo games and 1 remaster, 3 Batman games, an Uncharted Trilogy and The Last of Us, 4 Gears of War games, 2 GTAs with 2 story expansions, Red Dead Redemption and a story expansion, L.A. Noire, and Max Payne 3.

What have we gotten since?

2 Halo games and 1 remaster, 1 Batman game with 2 follow ups still to come, 1 Uncharted with an expansion and 1 Last of Us, 2 Gears of War games with a remaster, and 1 Red Dead Redemption from Rockstar in all this time. That's not even mentioning the amount of franchises that have disappeared, gone dormant, or died a short while after.

Times are vastly different in the gaming world now than they were then. Breath of the Wild is the new Resident Evil 4, Dark Souls is a genre, Fortnite is king, games are a service, indie games are either Metroidvanias or Rogue-likes, stealth is a mechanic not a genre, Assassin's Creed is an RPG, Resident Evil is a first-person survival horror game, remakes are popular, and SJW politics are influencing the industry more and more.

I miss the days of getting different Spider-Man games every year, I miss the machismo and horror-like setting of Gears of War, I miss when Saint's Row was about gangbangers and criminals, I miss when the 360 arcade had a bunch of demos for upcoming games, I miss how special Halo felt when Halo 3 came out, I miss when co-op games were the trend, I miss my uncle Charles, I miss Splinter Cell, I miss simple linear games, and so much more that makes the 7th generation feel as retro as the Gamecube.

[Prowler]

You guys are making some good points.

I think I generally agree with Andrew about NES-PS2 being retro. Ofc I'd add games that came before the NES even existed to that as well, but Andrew probably just forgot mentioning them.

I guess we should also mention indie games becoming more common within the past several years as another change in the industry. Indie games are filling a niche that was rather empty after a while. Especially those games that are clearly modern takes on 8 bits and 16 bit style games from the 80s and 90s.

Like Turo, I will always prefer single player modes. Games that can only be played online against strangers just aren't my thing. I don't care about Fortnite, Overwatch, Dota, League of Legends, etc.

And let's not forget mobile gaming becoming a huge thing within the last decade as well with Smartphones. But mobile gaming is such a strange part of the industry. They're mostly all pay to win games that you're supposed to play in short bursts on the toilet or while riding the bus. There's a few ones like Pokémon Go that actually are rathe rorigibal and interesting, and you can connect them to your regular pokemon games as well. But such games feel like the exception to the rule.

As for dying series... sadly two of my favourite series are pretty much either dead or dormant. F-Zero just seems like it's in a coma. Nintendo just doesn't seem to know what else to do with it. And the fact F-Zero games never sold that well to begin with probably makes Nintendo think there's no need to make more of them since the demand isn't high enough.
The other series is Sim City. Pretty sure this one is 100% dead. That or it still belongs to EA... which is a fate even crueler than death. Why did it have to be EA of all companies to acquire Maxis, WHYYYY?!

I guess the closest thing you can get to Sim Cities nowadays is City Skylines or wtv it's called.

[Andrew NDB]

Why did it have to be EA of all companies to acquire Maxis, WHYYYY?!

EA acquires Origin... KILLS Wing Commander and Privateer and Ultima. Sits on the rights.

EA acquires Westwood Studios... KILLS Dune. Sits on the rights.

EA acquires Maxis... KILLS everything. Sits on the rights.

They only allow to live online-only cheap versions of things they can sip pennies on the dollar from every month. Over and over again. They are the worst video game company in the history of planet Earth and I hate them with every fiber in my being. There is no deal with them that isn't one with the Devil. Ever.

[IMJ]

Any generation of gaming whereby the primary gaming mechanic or graphical output was largely utilized and has now passed for a newer game mechanic or significantly increased level of graphical output.

I think it's as simple as that.

Technically, for the group savants who need to hear it, a "retro" game could be designed and made today to be retro as well.

[Andrew NDB]

Any generation of gaming whereby the primary gaming mechanic or graphical output was largely utilized and has now passed for a newer game mechanic or significantly increased level of graphical output.

I think it's as simple as that.

Technically, for the group savants who need to hear it, a "retro" game could be designed and made today to be retro as well.

I don't know. I think there's a difference between "an old game system"/"old games" and "retro games." Like when Nintendo fans moved from the Gamecube to the Wii, the Gamecube wasn't suddenly a "retro gaming system." Nor was it even when the Wii U hit, really. It's just a system that is largely obsolete. Not super old, but old enough that no one's really playing it anymore.

[IMJ]

I don't know. I think there's a difference between "an old game system"/"old games" and "retro games." Like when Nintendo fans moved from the Gamecube to the Wii, the Gamecube wasn't suddenly a "retro gaming system." Nor was it even when the Wii U hit, really. It's just a system that is largely obsolete. Not super old, but old enough that no one's really playing it anymore.

I don't entirely disagree, but that's why I specifically didn't say "old" but instead spoke of gaming mechanics and graphical design and power. :)

But it's different across generations too. Atari is clearly retro gaming - repetitive arcade-style point systems. NES is clearly retro gaming - 8-bit style largely made of platforming.

So I guess it's multi-faceted. Playstation had a great Castlevania game called "Lament of Innocence". That game took what was great from Symphony of the Night and did it better than Curse of Darkness. It was a pre-cursor of sorts to the awesome PS4 "Lords of Shadow" game. Is "Lament of Innocence" a retro game in any way other than the year it was released? I dunno.....

[Prowler]

Yeah, as I said before, the jump between generations in terms of graphics and gameplay mechanics isn't as steep nowadays as it used to be. That kinda stopped after the PS2/GC/Xbox generation since it basically was the start of polished 3D games. Ofc a lot of PS2 games look really outdated nowadays. Try playing the PS2 GTA games nowadays for instance.

But yeah, I just see the Wii as old by now but not exactly retro.

[CyberCubed]

PS3/PS4/PS5 games all feel very similar although very early PS3 games feel dated now.

Meanwhile PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games definitely feel like a generation before. Although it's weird for me to even consider PS2 and Gamecube games retro, they definitely are since they're 20 years old now. Fun fact: It wasn't even 20 years before Gamecube came out that the NES was out...as NES didn't come out till 1985.

[Prowler]

PS3/PS4/PS5 games all feel very similar although very early PS3 games feel dated now.

Meanwhile PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games definitely feel like a generation before. Although it's weird for me to even consider PS2 and Gamecube games retro, they definitely are since they're 20 years old now. Fun fact: It wasn't even 20 years before Gamecube came out that the NES was out...as NES didn't come out till 1985.

Yeah I agree.

Honestly if you show me a game that came out in 2012 or so I'd probably not be able to guess it was a decade old already. Naturally that doesn't happen with GC era games and games that came out before that.

I'm not sure we'll ever experience another major graphics jump. Unless games eventually start to look like 100% like reality. But that's never going to be possible for fantasy style games.

[CyberCubed]

Mass Effect 3 came out in 2012. If you play the trilogy remaster it literally could pass as a modern 2022 game.

[Prowler]

The jump between générations stopped being as big but youre blind if you don't see the differences between a 2012 game and a 2022 release, just physics alone have changed things.
Gaming not being innovative has nothing to do with a game being retro or not.
Again for s while people said retro was only pints based games like arcade titles from the 80s and before and later that 3D meant it wasn't retro anymore etc, definitions have changed as kids age and they see their games as retro because they're old and anything before they were boen as retro. Just because you're an adult and 10 years go as fast as 10 months did when you were young doesn't mean time isn't passing.

You always come across as an annoying know-it-all. Ever noticed that?

[Leo656]

You always come across as an annoying know-it-all. Ever noticed that?

This place needs you, my son. :lol::lol::lol:

But yeah I have a list of "Drome People I Hope To Set On Fire Before I Die" and sometimes the order of importance shifts but it's always the same five or so people regardless.

[Prowler]

The Switch turned 5 years old early this month. That system came out 5 years ago already.

At this point, 5 years from now, teenagers and young adults will be calling BOTW and Mario Odyssey "retro". Jesus.

[CyberCubed]

I mean is it surprising? Mario Galaxy 2 came out 12 years ago in 2010, that's also basically retro now.

[Prowler]

I mean is it surprising? Mario Galaxy 2 came out 12 years ago in 2010, that's also basically retro now.

I played it last year. Holds up pretty well still. Just like its predecessor. They're old by now since 12 years is a really long time in the video game industry. But they definitely don't feel or look like retro games to me like Super Mario 64 or Super Mario Sunshine do.

Is the DS New Super Mario Bros. retro for you by now?

[Leo656]

By the time I get around to playing anything, everything is "retro" to me. :lol: I'm always so busy going through my backlog I never, ever have time to play anything "new". Most games are at least 5 years old by the time I get to them, usually way more.

I can't even f*cking remember the last game I played brand new. Injustice 2 is all I can think of. And that was the first one in a very long time, also.

[Prowler]

That definitely happens to me on Steam and whenever I get an older game for the Switch. The last non-Nintendo system I bought was the PS2... and that was about 17 years ago already. So yeah, I've missed on a lot of big games throughout the century.

It shouldn't matter when you play a game unless you're playing something that is exclusively online and thus needs its servers to still be alive. But single players titles such as Zelda games? Who cares if you play it a few years after it came out?

We're all getting older. It's not always possible to buy a game at launch.

[Prowler]

With the Switch 2 out, is the Wii U retro by now? What about Breath of the Wild? That game came out simultaneously on the Wii U and the Switch 1. Is it half retro now or something?

[Andrew NDB]

With the Switch 2 out, is the Wii U retro by now?

I wouldn't say so. Wii U is basically a Switch that has the ability to play regular Wii games. It pretty much has the same interface as the Switch as well. Switch was like Nintendo's do-over when they didn't get the sales they were hoping for from the Wii U.

[Prowler]

I wouldn't say so. Wii U is basically a Switch that has the ability to play regular Wii games. It pretty much has the same interface as the Switch as well. Switch was like Nintendo's do-over when they didn't get the sales they were hoping for from the Wii U.

Yeah I agree. It's just a system that's pretty much dead and old by now that no one is playing anymore. But still not old enough to be retro.

[CyberCubed]

In my mind retro will forever be 2D games like 8-bit or 16-bit games, but also the first gen of 3D games like the N64 and Playstation 1.

I know PS2, Gamecube and Xbox games are now 25 years old, but I still can't wrap my mind around PS2/Gamecube games being "retro." When they're remastered in HD these games still look good to this day.

[Prowler]

In my mind retro will forever be 2D games like 8-bit or 16-bit games, but also the first gen of 3D games like the N64 and Playstation 1.

I know PS2, Gamecube and Xbox games are now 25 years old, but I still can't wrap my mind around PS2/Gamecube games being "retro." When they're remastered in HD these games still look good to this day.

Nah, I definitely consider games from that gen retro by now. PS2 games in particular often have very ugly graphics that we somehow didn't notice when we were kids. But the Xbox and even the GameCube had better graphics overall than the PS2. Not that it mattered since the PS2 obliterated both in sales. having said that there are some really good looking PS2 games like Final Fantasy X. And that game came out in 2000 or 2001. Yet it looks better than many PS2 games that came out 5 or more years afterwards.

GTA games look shockingly outdated by now. You mention HD remasters, but the the remasters of GTA 3, Vice City and San Andreas were completely sh*t on upon by people when they came out.

[sdp]

Leo's been banned for so long now he could be considered retro.

[CyberCubed]

MGS3 Delta remake compared to the original MGS3 really shows how far graphics have come.

[Prowler]

Interestingly, the very last Wii game to come out was Just dance 2020 and it came out in 2019-2020.

[sdp]

Interestingly, the very last Wii game to come out was Just dance 2020 and it came out in 2019-2020.

Well it's not a simple clear line saying what's retro or not, at the same time that Just Dance 2020 on Wii is basically just the same Just Dance from 2010 reskinned with new music and .jpgs in the background to sell to whoever was buying that. hell to further on that

With the Switch 2 out, is the Wii U retro by now? What about Breath of the Wild? That game came out simultaneously on the Wii U and the Switch 1. Is it half retro now or something?

Yes Wii U is retro now as the cycle is more or less followed by most is either "10+years old is retro" and/or "current gen -> previous gen (old but not retro) --> any gen preivous = Retro" so by both definitions Wii U is retro.

Just Dance is a legacy game that could be considered retro since it's on the Wii but maybe not since it's from 2019. But such cases almost always fall with sports games and music games that don't change gameplay and only change roster/songs, so no one cares enough.

BOTW is interesting since it also got relaunched with a sort of mini remaster as a "Switch 2 edition". Doese this remaster count as a new game like other remasters? Safe to say it's a retro game now. I played the Mario galaxy remaster and it feels like a retro game, that's a wii game.

It doesn't really matter there's no written rule anymore and with consoles being PCs and streaming games being a thing and games now continue evolving and being sold like say Minecraft, Fortnite, League of Legends, those are all whithin "retro" standards but are still modern since they get updated so it doesn't matter much, gaming is a different beast now

[CyberCubed]

It kind of blows my mind when the Mario Galaxy remasters just came out on Switch, and you realize Mario Galaxy 1 came out in 2007 and Mario Galaxy 2 in 2010. Even Mario Galaxy 2 is 15 years old now! That is absolutely crazy.

To put that into perspective, when the original Mario Bros. 1 on NES came out in 1985, 15 years from that was the year 2000 when we were in the last year of the N64.

Now 15 years ago Mario Galaxy 2 came out. The passage of time is crazy.

[Prowler]

Let's also remember that Twillight Princess came out at the same time on the GC and the Wii. So where does that leave it when it comes to "the retro checkboxes"?

Sports titles are often some of the last games to come out in a consoles life. FIFA and PES were getting PS2 ports up until 2014 or so. Their PS2 versions were basically just updated versions of PES 2008 and FIFA 07 from 2007-2008 on. They already looked rough and dated at the time they came out.

FIFA 11-14 and PES 2011-2014 on the PS3/360/PC aren't retro, but their PS2 ports? Eh... they make a good case.

[sdp]

TP is definitely retro that game is nearly 20 years old even if it came out on Wii at the same time. It looks and plays dated even if you play the HD remaster on Wii U.
I don't play sports games but from what I've read people online they just keep coming out since people buy them but they're basically just updating the rosters every year, the actual gameplay is not changed so they're called, they're all just basically "official mods" for the last real entry of a sports game they made.

[Prowler]

It kind of blows my mind when the Mario Galaxy remasters just came out on Switch, and you realize Mario Galaxy 1 came out in 2007 and Mario Galaxy 2 in 2010. Even Mario Galaxy 2 is 15 years old now! That is absolutely crazy.

To put that into perspective, when the original Mario Bros. 1 on NES came out in 1985, 15 years from that was the year 2000 when we were in the last year of the N64.

Now 15 years ago Mario Galaxy 2 came out. The passage of time is crazy.

How good are the Galaxy games remasters, btw?

I mean, I still have my Wii and own both games. They all work perfectly fine. Is it really worth it to spend 60 euros or so on the Switch remasters in my case? Especially since I play the Switch in handheld mode always. In handheld mode you don't use motion controls, which are a significant part of the Galaxy games....

[CyberCubed]

They're the definitive way to play the games. The remasters are great and they added new textures to the ground and walls. The joycons also work well compared to the Wii remotes. The game still has Wii-era graphics so don't expect full remakes, but they made everything look a little better.

[Prowler]

Graphics are my least concern. The Galaxy games look pretty good. The Wii is not the Nintendo 64.

My concern are with the handheld controls. I don't feel like buying a modern day TV (yes I still have a very old TV, so sue me) just so I can play those remasters. So I'll pass and just replay them on the Wii again someday if I feel like it.

[Andrew NDB]

How good are the Galaxy games remasters, btw?

I mean, I still have my Wii and own both games. They all work perfectly fine. Is it really worth it to spend 60 euros or so on the Switch remasters in my case? Especially since I play the Switch in handheld mode always. In handheld mode you don't use motion controls, which are a significant part of the Galaxy games....

The Remasters are top notch. Galaxy 1 even looks way better than in the 3D All Stars version. Textures redone in 4k.

[CyberCubed]

Funnily enough I virtually never play my Switch in handheld mode and play it on TV 99% of the time. Honestly most of the time I legit forget it's a handheld. It surprises me when most people play it in handheld a lot of the time. Same for the Switch 1, I think in the 8 years I owned it I took it out of the dock to play in handheld mode like...twice? Once when I first got it and one other time.

But yeah, the Galaxy remasters are great. The Mario 3D World Switch port also got the added Bowser Fury game which is like 7 hours of DLC content in its own game. Mario 64 and Sunshine are on the first All-stars collection and are or will be on Nintendo switch online too.

The only major 3D Mario game not on Switch is Mario 3D Land, the 3DS game. 3D World is basically a full sequel to it, but I like the bite-sized levels of 3D Land. You can only play it on 3DS to this day.

[Prowler]

The Remasters are top notch. Galaxy 1 even looks way better than in the 3D All Stars version. Textures redone in 4k.
I believe you but I'm perfectly satisfied with how the original Galaxy games still look on the Wii.

Perhaps I will buy them sometime later when they can be found for a significantly lower price in used games shops.

Funnily enough I virtually never play my Switch in handheld mode and play it on TV 99% of the time. Honestly most of the time I legit forget it's a handheld. It surprises me when most people play it in handheld a lot of the time. Same for the Switch 1, I think in the 8 years I owned it I took it out of the dock to play in handheld mode like...twice? Once when I first got it and one other time.

But yeah, the Galaxy remasters are great. The Mario 3D World Switch port also got the added Bowser Fury game which is like 7 hours of DLC content in its own game. Mario 64 and Sunshine are on the first All-stars collection and are or will be on Nintendo switch online too.

The only major 3D Mario game not on Switch is Mario 3D Land, the 3DS game. 3D World is basically a full sequel to it, but I like the bite-sized levels of 3D Land. You can only play it on 3DS to this day.
I have 3D World on the Switch and 3D Land on the 3DS. This might be a controversial opinion, but I prefer 3D Land over 3D World. They're both pretty good, though.

[Andrew NDB]

Funnily enough I virtually never play my Switch in handheld mode and play it on TV 99% of the time. Honestly most of the time I legit forget it's a handheld. It surprises me when most people play it in handheld a lot of the time. Same for the Switch 1, I think in the 8 years I owned it I took it out of the dock to play in handheld mode like...twice? Once when I first got it and one other time.

Probably like 2 or 3 times for me, ever. If the wife is playing something on the big TV then sure, it makes sense for me to take the Switch (now Switch 2) off the dock. Not really any other time.

[Prowler]

I'm guessing you guys don't go on long train rides or fly a couple of times a year either. A long haul flight is a perfect time to pull out your switch and play it in handheld mode. Not that I have done it but the longest flight I took so far was 4 hours long approximately. But if I ever go on a longer flight, I'll seriously consider taking my Switch in my hand luggage. Or just end up taking my 3DS. Not to mention my Kobo Touch. I read one of the Discworld novels last summer flying from Lisbon to Krakow.

But yeah, if I ever manage to go to Japan or South Korea that could mean a layover in, let's say, Turkey or the United Arab Emirates. That will make two long haul flights. Plus will need entertainment while I'm stuck in the airport in transit. Although finding free plugs in airports is a pain in the ass.

[2012Mikey]

My general rule of thumb has always been 20 years.

[Stu_Padasso]

To me, a game is “retro” is whenever I buy a game that doesn’t require downloading a patch to make it work.

[oldmanwinters]

Arguably, when it gets a budget-priced re-release (physical media era).

Definitely, when it gets a remake/remaster.

[CyberCubed]

My general rule of thumb has always been 20 years.

2006 games are 20 years old. Is Zelda Twilight Princess retro now? Resistances Fall of Man for PS3?

[sdp]

My general rule of thumb has always been 20 years.

So the SNES was not retro in 2010 yet? That's a wild take.


Funnily enough I virtually never play my Switch in handheld mode and play it on TV 99% of the time. Honestly most of the time I legit forget it's a handheld.

I mostly play my Switch in handheld mode but I do occasionally play on the TV. I'd say it's a 70/30 split. There's just something comfy about playing anywhere on the house.

I also in general don't use the TV for anything, I rarely watch TV or movies, maybe once a week. It's really funny how it's become a piece of technology I don't really use and while it doesn't use that much space, it still feels it uses way too much space for something I don't really use that much. Funny how TVs have become obsolete tech the last ten years or so.

[2012Mikey]

2006 games are 20 years old. Is Zelda Twilight Princess retro now? Resistances Fall of Man for PS3?
I'd certainly consider those retro, though I'm also a lot younger than most of the users here, which definitely plays a part in my perception.
So the SNES was not retro in 2010 yet? That's a wild take.
I think the SNES would've been retro far earlier than that. I admit it's me being inconsistent, but technology improved so rapidly during the earlybyears of the industry that things became retro quicker. I'd say my 20 year rule applies from gen 6 onwards.

[sdp]

I still feel I created the best format, it just works and it works even if the generations become longer because of lack of technology moving as fast.


anything before (retro) -->
previous gen (old but not retro) -->
current gen (Not retro)->
Next Gen (Not out yet, not retro)->

It just works, let's try it out.


anything before (retro) --> PS3, PS2, PS1
previous gen (old but not retro) --> PS4
current gen (Not retro)-> PS5
Next Gen (Not out yet, not retro)-> PS6


anything before (retro) --> Wii U, 3DS, Wii, DS, Gamecube etc
previous gen (old but not retro) --> Switch 1
current gen (Not retro)-> Switch 2
Next Gen (Not out yet, not retro)-> Switch 3(?)


anything before (retro) --> Xbox 360, OG
previous gen (old but not retro) --> Xbox One
current gen (Not retro)-> Xbox Series S/X
Next Gen (Not out yet, not retro)-> Xbox Project Helix

Does anyone actually consider PS3 not retro? Those games are 20 years old now, Wii U is the most recent console that is now "retro" and it's almost 15 years old at this point, it also has the same graphical powers of the PS3.

Also I don't buy the excuse that games just last longer. Talk to any kid or Gen Z about Fortnite a game that continues to this day but specifically talk to them about Chapter 1 or Chapter 2 and they talk about it like its ancient history, just as we talked about the SNES during the Gamecube era.
Granted my system might need some exceptions here and there but overall it works, and if any game is over 10 years old then yeah you should likely see if it's retro or not.

[IMJ]

It's hard to believe but there are kids who probably consider the PS3 "retro" now.

[Barkworm]

It's hard to believe but there are kids who probably consider the PS3 "retro" now.
Well, that's two generations ago. That's pretty retro.

[CyberCubed]

That's because power levels have hit a ceiling in terms of videogames. That's why back in the early 2000's, retro games were strictly considered 2D games like NES, SNES, Gameboy or Genesis games.

Then N64 and Playstation 1 games became retro because they were early 3D games and look very old graphics wise.

Now we're at the point where PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games are over 25 years old, and are basically retro.

PS3/360+ onward still feel relatively recent, and while are a little outdated graphic wise, don't feel much different than modern games.

[member_removed]

I would say at least 2 generations prior.

So, from the 7th and before. The 7th Gen being PS3/Wii/360.

Starting to see a few PS3 Games getting a PS5 remaster, such The Last of Us.
Also seeing heaps of cheaper games from that gen now days.

[Prowler]

Arguably, when it gets a budget-priced re-release (physical media era).

Definitely, when it gets a remake/remaster.

Not physical and not a re-release, but Deus EX Human Revolution came out in 2011 and by late 2012 it cost like €1,99 with a 90% discount on Steam. No way that game was retro only a year after it came out lmao. It got an upgraded version a few years later, though, called Director's Cut.

It's hard to believe but there are kids who probably consider the PS3 "retro" now.

Well, that's two generations ago. That's pretty retro.

I think his point was more about how it's hard to believe that a system like the PS3 is considered retro by many by now. I was 15-17 years old when the 360/PS3/Wii came out. It was referred to as the next gen back then. I remember games coming out in 2009 for those systems still being advertised and announced as "next gen" even though they were current gen by then.

[Andrew NDB]

I think his point was more about how it's hard to believe that a system like the PS3 is considered retro by many by now.

It's a full-on 20 year old system. Of course it's retro. That's not up for debate, really.

There was only 6 years between the NES and the SNES in the United States. Imagine the SNES not coming out until 2005 (20 years after NES) and anyone of sound mind going, "WTF? It is hard to believe NES is retro now!"

[Prowler]

It's a full-on 20 year old system. Of course it's retro. That's not up for debate, really.

There was only 6 years between the NES and the SNES in the United States. Imagine the SNES not coming out until 2005 (20 years after NES) and anyone of sound mind going, "WTF? It is hard to believe NES is retro now!"

I'm not disputing it's retro. I made this thread in 2022, 4 years ago. At this point, I cannot deny the fact that the PS3, Wii and the 360 are all retro.

I think IMJ was just saying that it's kinda surreal it's been 20 years or close to it since the PS3 came out. And I get that. I was 16 years old and that generation were my late teens and early adulthood years. He's some years older than me iirc. For him it might even be more surreal. The PS4 and the Wii U came out when I was 22-23 and it's also kinda wild to me how that was over a decade ago already.

[IMJ]

I'm not disputing it's retro. I made this thread in 2022, 4 years ago. At this point, I cannot deny the fact that the PS3, Wii and the 360 are all retro.

I think IMJ was just saying that it's kinda surreal it's been 20 years or close to it since the PS3 came out. And I get that. I was 16 years old and that generation were my late teens and early adulthood years. He's some years older than me iirc. For him it might even be more surreal. The PS4 and the Wii U came out when I was 22-23 and it's also kinda wild to me how that was over a decade ago already.

Pretty much hit the nail on the head there....

Also combine that with what Cybercubed said:

That's because power levels have hit a ceiling in terms of videogames. That's why back in the early 2000's, retro games were strictly considered 2D games like NES, SNES, Gameboy or Genesis games.

Then N64 and Playstation 1 games became retro because they were early 3D games and look very old graphics wise.

Now we're at the point where PS2/Gamecube/Xbox games are over 25 years old, and are basically retro.

PS3/360+ onward still feel relatively recent, and while are a little outdated graphic wise, don't feel much different than modern games.

and you have the full scope of what I was hinting at less articulately above.

It's a function of time but also a function of the fact that you can put a PS3 game in right now and honestly, the largest visible change in the graphics might be lack of 4k texturing or something like that and there are a lot of people gaming even on the PS5 who aren't fully equipped for that anyway.

The leap from Atari to NES was huge. The leap from SNES to PSONe was huge. But the PS3 is arguably the system that went to the modern baseline and the leaps were less obvious and therefore also feels "less retro".

But on that note, let's face it - the word "retro' does a lot of lifting on it's own merits - retro implies "back in time" and so things like "game design" and "gameplay mechanics" I suppose could impact that as well.

[CyberCubed]

I think early/middle era PS3 games definitely look dated now, you can tell games prior to say 2009/2010 do not look as good as PS4 or PS5 games.

But to me a lot of PS4 games look exactly like PS5 games, I honestly can't tell the difference with a lot of games. Like Uncharted 4 came out on PS4 in 2015, that was like 11 years ago (!), and the graphics and facial animations of the characters still look great today like modern games. Same for Metal Gear Solid V, Batman Arkham Knight, Witcher III, etc.

[Prowler]

I think early/middle era PS3 games definitely look dated now, you can tell games prior to say 2009/2010 do not look as good as PS4 or PS5 games.

But to me a lot of PS4 games look exactly like PS5 games, I honestly can't tell the difference with a lot of games. Like Uncharted 4 came out on PS4 in 2015, that was like 11 years ago (!), and the graphics and facial animations of the characters still look great today like modern games. Same for Metal Gear Solid V, Batman Arkham Knight, Witcher III, etc.

The Witcher III came out in 2015 and Roach's controls feel very dated. They're rather frustrating. Lots of people can no longer play the game in general without mods. I still think the game holds up well nowadays besides Roach's controls, however.