So... what exactly were Eastman and Laird doing when they came up with TMNT?

[Prowler]

I'm guessing they needed or wanted to create a new comic book concept or series. But what exactly led them to come up with something like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles? One of the first concept art for it has Michelangelo with a Krang lookalike in its stomach. Who even draws an anthropomorphic turtle with a talking brain in their stomach? What exactly leads your mind to THAT?!

...they were either drunk or high, weren't they? Have they actually ever admitted so or been asked about it?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

I don't know if they were drunk, but I know that they made a parody of trends in hero and superhero comics and cartoons ad the time.

There are a lot of websites about the creation of the TMNT.

https://www.tcj.com/the-kevin-eastman-interview-part-i/

https://theweek.com/captured/446321/fascinating-origin-story-teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles

[cammy85]

They were playing around and one of them drew a picture of a generic humanoid turtle weilding a katana, so prototype Leonardo. The name Ninja Turtle came up, then Teenage mutant Ninja Turtle. It's been awhile since I had the novellization of the Archie pilot, but I read it there.

[Anarchistguy]

They were playing around and one of them drew a picture of a generic humanoid turtle weilding a katana, so prototype Leonardo. The name Ninja Turtle came up, then Teenage mutant Ninja Turtle. It's been awhile since I had the novellization of the Archie pilot, but I read it there.

Wasn't that first turtle holding nunchaku though?

[AquaParade]

Often when I read casual articles about the creation of TMNT, the writer will make some off-hand remark that insinuates they were stoned out of their minds - as if it's the only way they'd come up with something so ridiculous - but I've never seen any actual implication of them smoking weed.

[frank_one]

People just can't understand creativity.

[Andrew NDB]

My first impulse is, "Oh, they were definitely both raging potheads" but I kind of doubt that. Most raging potheads come up with a lot of great ideas but never actually muster up enough motivation to see anything through or get anything done... let alone putting up mortgages and hand-shipping out comics they'd print themselves and all. This was something they really believed in and saw through all the way, against all business models. I mean, they both look like they could be potheads, particularly then. You know that most of that Mirage gang had to be.

A bit of coke if anything. Casual drinks, maybe (maybe not so casual for vintage Eastman).

[Leo656]

Weren't they in Massachusetts? That right there means you don't even need to ask if they were potheads; they were. I can believe coke, too, but that seems more like Kevin's deal that Peter's; Peter seems much more "straight" than Kevin in general but I can believe he dabbled in his college-age years, especially living in that area. Massachusetts is a huge druggie area, especially the sections that are highly-populated by college or college-age kids. Nobody's "sober" there.

The whole "people who smoke pot don't have the motivation to get things done" is total bullsh*t, though. That might be one person's anecdotal experience, but especially in artists' circles you'd have a hell of a time finding a single artist or musician who wasn't also a huge pothead. I used to move people into million-dollar mansions who'd speak openly about how much they smoked. Every guy in every band I ever knew was a pothead. A bunch of guys I wrestled with in high school gyms and are now on TV making six and seven figures are daily smokers. I mean, Hulk Hogan is notoriously famous for saying "A day without smoking pot is like a day without sunshine." Nobody could argue that those people "lacked drive and follow-through". They're all doing better than you or I! But yeah, every single successful "artistic" person is also a pot smoker. Not saying it MAKES you successful but the two go hand-in-hand, definitely. There are no "straight edge" artistic folks making money; creative types tend to require chemical motivation. Whether that's pot, alcohol, or something else, "creatives" can't "create" while sober. It has something to do with the fact that most artists have addictive personalities to start with.

If I had to make a guess as to what was MOST involved in the creation of TMNT, I'd say it was mostly pot, with a sprinkling of beer and coke. But predominantly pot. Because the other substances actually obstruct your creativity more than anything. Drink too much alcohol, you completely lose the ability to function, so holding a pen long enough to do anything but scribble would be difficult. Too much coke, it's hard to maintain any focus whatsoever, although I can see where it could trigger some offbeat ideas. But pot doesn't actually affect anyone the way it does in the movies; it mostly just makes you less self-conscious so that your "dumb" ideas seem brilliant in that moment, and thus you're more likely to pursue them rather than dismiss them.

So I can see where Kev and Peter were possibly a little drunk, but probably not THAT drunk. Given their age and the area, I can believe they were on some coke, but again, not THAT much, in the moment. But stoned on weed? Absolutely. "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" is exactly the kind of dumb thing you come up with at 2am when you're baked off your ass "eating Chinese food and watching bad TV" as one version of the story goes. No way a sober person thought of it. But if they were too drunk or too coked up, they wouldn't have been able to commit to it properly in that moment. The quality of what they produced with the first sketches shows me that they were still mostly "with it", and therefore not overly inebriated. They'd have been a lot more rough if they were totally drunk or coked up.

But a person totally stoned on weed could definitely have produced something that coherent. So my "educated guess" would say it was predominantly weed-inspired, then cheap beer, and maaaaaybe a dusting of coke.

You'd probably have to ask Kev and hope he wasn't in one of his lying moods. Peter, to me, doesn't seem like the type to speak openly of his drug use even if it was decades ago.

[AquaParade]

I really don't think weed has anything to do with it either way. You could be super stoned and come up with TMNT or be super sober and come up with TMNT.

And I disagree that all people who smoke are lazy or unmotivated, though it can be common, because weed is awesome and it's easy to fall into the trap of feeling good.

[Leo656]

I concede that it's possible but again, it's not LIKELY that it sprung from a sober mind. It's a pretty goofy idea.

And again, other variables. College-aged guys. Artists. Living in a very "liberal" area of a very "liberal" state.

Some people I went to high school with went to college in Northampton. Stoner Central. Surrounding areas, pretty much the same. Anyone there studying the arts? If weed was their only vice, that was a miracle.

I'm just doing the math. I highly doubt these two guys were the ONLY sober artists in the entire state of Massachusetts when they came up with this overtly "kooky" idea of theirs. Math doesn't add up.

[Prowler]

Kevin most definitely smoked or smokes pot. He just looks like the type :lol:

As for Laird... I mean doesn't April turn out to be a drawing in vol. 4 and there's also some weird **** there? I haven't read it but I'm pretty sure I've seen Leo talk about it here and even mentioning cockroaches? In that case, Laird must have been experiencing some long term side-effects from substances he took when he was younger.

Anyway I don't know why some people find this idea that Laird and Eastman were drunk or stoned when they came up with TMNT such an absurd claim. A lot of artists and musicians do or did that kind of stuff throughout history. What makes you think the people who created Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are the exception? You honestly aren't suggesting they're straight edgers or something, are you?

[Roseangelo]

I'm pretty sure the official story is just that they were watching bad TV.

[Prowler]

I'm pretty sure the official story is just that they were watching bad TV.

That might be so, but it's not like the official story is necessarily the truth either. Maybe they just didn't want to openly talk about the stuff they might have been drinking or smoking :lol:.

Kevin and Peter were still young men when they came up with TMNT. Might have been the whole "don't want my mother to know I did drugs!" thing deep down.

[Leo656]

I'd wager that most of the Mirage guys were into drugs. I remember one of them mentioned in the Vol. 4 letter column that they were big fans of the band Babyshambles, and trying to defend the singer (whose name I forget) from various accusations about being a huge drug addict.

The singer in question was being roasted in the news at the time for, among other drug-related incidents, taking pictures of himself forcing his kitten to smoke crack cocaine. I forget how this came up in a TMNT letters column of all places, but the Mirage employee (whose name I also forget) was basically saying, "The guy's just a misunderstood genius."

In my experience, that reads like someone sticking up for "one of their own". Also, if you're a person who'd defend a guy who fed crack to a kitten, please get off this planet.

I have no evidence that the Mirage staff were "junkies" or anything like that, but given the time and location I'm inclined to believe that many various substances were consumed there over the years.

And yeah, El-Oh-El at the "official story" stuff. Once again, college-aged guys in Massachusetts. Do the math.

It's like saying "Not EVERY person in the state of Georgia is racist." Sure, like ten of them aren't. Likewise, you might find a dozen starving artists in Massachusetts who aren't smoking weed. But it's probably only because they can't afford it.

[Prowler]

Maybe I'm reading too much into things, but it seems to me some TMNT fans are almost bothered by the idea the creators of their favourite thing ever might have dabbled in drugs.

Makes me wonder what kind of music do some TMNT fans listen to. As if smoking pot makes Kevin and Laird bad people or something.

Wow the story of that singer who fed his cat crack and wow at someone from Mirage defending a guy like that. Yikes.

[CyberCubed]

Didn't Peter Laird at least say he never smoked? I think he said that somewhere.

Kevin strikes me as a total druggie when he was younger, but not Peter.

[ABrown]

AwKedNFOMNg

[Leo656]

Prowler: Oh, yeah, this isn't even a new topic of conversation. I can't count how many times "Were Kevin and Peter drunk or high when they invented TMNT?" has been asked here over the years, either in its own thread or just as an extension of another conversation.

And every time, someone clutches pearls and is like, "They WOULDN'T!" :lol: It comes from living a fairly sheltered life, if you TRULY believe they were stone-sober in that moment.

I've been around "drug people" literally all my life. After a while you can peg people super easy. Whether it's by how they present themselves or how they speak or what their "art" is like, everyone has a "tell"; I.e. "This is a Weed Person, this is a Coke Person, this is a functional alcoholic", etc. etc. They don't have to confess out loud, you can tell if you know the signs. To my knowledge, I've never pegged anyone incorrectly.

And again, there's location/lifestyle factors. If you're an "artist" who resides in Massachusetts, you smoke pot. Period. Just like in my state, if you live in Newark then you're a crackhead. Nobody needs to be told these things, it's just an accepted fact of life. And if you're from there, You Know The Deal.

Cubed: He could've told a half-truth. In select company if someone asks me if I smoke, I answer (truthfully) "No, I don't smoke cigarettes." If they ask me any follow-up questions, I'll answer. But they usually don't.

[Jester]

An actual image of Eastmsn and Laird at that time....
https://wifflegif.com/gifs/143294-jay-and-silent-bob-marijuana-gif

[Leo656]

I'm not seeing the picture. :ohwell:

[Prowler]

Well, I'm not expert at reading people's "tells", but I'll be dammed if Kevin Eastman doesn't give me the vibe of someone who likes to smoke weed. Even Cubed himself says so and I'm sure you'd agree too.

From my experience, if you ask someone if they smoke they either say yes or no... but if someone answers you "smoke what?" then you found yourself a pothead. Peter Laird might have smoked weed before but probably wasn't a huge consumer of it, so maybe that's why he said he doesn't smoke. I mean, I've smoked 2 cigarettes in my whole life and also tried to smoke pot once over a decade ago, but if you ask me if I'm a smoker naturally my answer will be "no". Since I never picked up the habit nor did I like my experiences. So it might be similar for Laird. That or he just meant tobacco, since that's what most people mean by "smoking".

As for Michelangelo antidrugs ad, well it's pretty amusing the Turtle that's the most likely to be a stoner to have been the one getting in such cartoon special. Then again I once saw a WWF ad with Ultimate Warrior telling you to not do drugs. Anyone who knows a little about Ultimate Warrior knows he did roids and didn't keep his nose clean :lol:

[Leo656]

Yeah it always amused me greatly that "Spicoli The Ninja Turtle" was the one who got tapped to be in that anti-drug cartoon. :lol: Leo was the "whiny do-gooder straight arrow", if anything it should have been him. But I guess they figured kids would respond better to the "popular" Turtle. In hindsight, though, it's hilarious.

I rented that sh*t alllllllll the time as a kid, too, not gonna lie. Course that was back when I believed that "pot is exactly as bad as coke and heroin" nonsense your parents and guidance counselors spoonfed us. I get it though, little kids should not smoke weed as it can stifle brain development so it's kind of like telling them fibs to make them believe in Santa. Flip side is, a lot of times when they find out that weed IS "safe", they figure other drugs must be as well; "They lied about pot, I guess coke must be safe", and so on. So in the end, honesty is probably the best policy; "Weed is fine for adults but if you're a kid it will make you stupid, so just wait until you're a grown-up."

Anyway, yeah, that cartoon was my jam as a kid. :lol: A little ashamed of it now, can't lie.

[Jester]

Let's try this again...
https://24.media.tumblr.com/f0996cb5290007c67e01663f49c81336/tumblr_mk6d8egGyM1rujzmdo1_500.gif

[Leo656]

:lol: You're alright, You.

[AquaParade]

Anyway I don't know why some people find this idea that Laird and Eastman were drunk or stoned when they came up with TMNT such an absurd claim. A lot of artists and musicians do or did that kind of stuff throughout history. What makes you think the people who created Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are the exception? You honestly aren't suggesting they're straight edgers or something, are you?

No, but people tend to chalk up any whacky ideas people come up with to drugs. The claim that they were stoned when making tmnt is unfounded, which is why I find the constant implication a bit goofy.

Take Grant Morrison for instance - the guy wrote some of the weirdest comics ever, before taking any drugs. People just assumed he was high out of his mind when he was writing Doom Patrol, but the guy was, in fact, straight edge. It's a common misconception.

Do I think Kevin and Peter were straight edge? No.
Do I think they smoked weed? Quite possibly - no indication either way.

I don't know if your comments about TMNT fans not wanting to believe it's true are aimed at me, but since I'm the only one in this thread claiming that, y'know, maybe they didn't smoke, I'll clarify that I am smoking pot right now. I have no trouble with the idea of them using drugs, I'm just being objective.

[Prowler]

My comment wasn't aimed at you or anyone in particular, Aqua. Just a general observation I've made regarding this subject throughout the years. I should have clarified it better.

I have no idea who Grant Morrison is, so I cannot really argue with that point.

Plenty of artists and musicians dabble in weed, booze, etc. so I don't think it's exactly a wild claim or guess that Laird and Eastman did so as well.

Perhaps people do have their own "tells" and I'm not that good at seeing them. Since you smoke yourself, perhaps you have a better radar when it comes to finding people like that and Eastman and Laird don't give you such vibe?

Anyway this is all speculation. None of us know or can prove whether they actually were drunk or high or not on that historical night.

[frank_one]

I've always assumed they were quite poor in those early days. Could they actually afford to buy weed or other drugs? Was uncle Quentin borrowing money for drugs as well? :D

[Prowler]

I've always assumed they were quite poor in those early days. Could they actually afford to buy weed or other drugs? Was uncle Quentin borrowing money for drugs as well? :D

HS and University students tend be "poor" as well and yet they manage to get weed somehow. No idea how much the stuff costs but it can't be too expensive. Pretty sure coke is the most expensive drug and weed is probably nowhere near that. And I've never implied they were on that.

Also, don't forget people from those age brackets tend to smoke tobacco and drink booze as well. It's not like they're entirely penniless. Plus many live with their parents still.

[Leo656]

Weed is not exactly all that expensive and if you have a circle of friends who are also into it supplies never run dry.

Plus, if it's a priority, you find ways. When I was a kid, there were plenty of times when we had no phone, cable, or sometimes even gas for heat or hot water... but my parents ALWAYS had weed no matter what. The priorities went Mortgage - Food - Electricity - Weed - Everything Else, in that order. And a few times Electricity and Weed traded places.

So yeah "being broke" literally has never stopped anyone from obtaining weed. It's magic. It comes to you when it's required. Life finds a way.
----------

I'm watching a doc on Guns N Roses right now and they just got done talking about how when the five of them were flat broke and living in a flophouse with no electricity or running water, half of them were full-blown heroin addicts and they weren't even working and barely even playing gigs. "Being poor" is not an obstacle to substance ingestion if you're committed.

[Hamato Yoshi]

Weren't they in Massachusetts? That right there means you don't even need to ask if they were potheads; they were. I can believe coke, too, but that seems more like Kevin's deal that Peter's; Peter seems much more "straight" than Kevin in general but I can believe he dabbled in his college-age years, especially living in that area. Massachusetts is a huge druggie area, especially the sections that are highly-populated by college or college-age kids. Nobody's "sober" there.

The whole "people who smoke pot don't have the motivation to get things done" is total bullsh*t, though. That might be one person's anecdotal experience, but especially in artists' circles you'd have a hell of a time finding a single artist or musician who wasn't also a huge pothead. I used to move people into million-dollar mansions who'd speak openly about how much they smoked. Every guy in every band I ever knew was a pothead. A bunch of guys I wrestled with in high school gyms and are now on TV making six and seven figures are daily smokers. I mean, Hulk Hogan is notoriously famous for saying "A day without smoking pot is like a day without sunshine." Nobody could argue that those people "lacked drive and follow-through". They're all doing better than you or I! But yeah, every single successful "artistic" person is also a pot smoker. Not saying it MAKES you successful but the two go hand-in-hand, definitely. There are no "straight edge" artistic folks making money; creative types tend to require chemical motivation. Whether that's pot, alcohol, or something else, "creatives" can't "create" while sober. It has something to do with the fact that most artists have addictive personalities to start with.

If I had to make a guess as to what was MOST involved in the creation of TMNT, I'd say it was mostly pot, with a sprinkling of beer and coke. But predominantly pot. Because the other substances actually obstruct your creativity more than anything. Drink too much alcohol, you completely lose the ability to function, so holding a pen long enough to do anything but scribble would be difficult. Too much coke, it's hard to maintain any focus whatsoever, although I can see where it could trigger some offbeat ideas. But pot doesn't actually affect anyone the way it does in the movies; it mostly just makes you less self-conscious so that your "dumb" ideas seem brilliant in that moment, and thus you're more likely to pursue them rather than dismiss them.

So I can see where Kev and Peter were possibly a little drunk, but probably not THAT drunk. Given their age and the area, I can believe they were on some coke, but again, not THAT much, in the moment. But stoned on weed? Absolutely. "Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles" is exactly the kind of dumb thing you come up with at 2am when you're baked off your ass "eating Chinese food and watching bad TV" as one version of the story goes. No way a sober person thought of it. But if they were too drunk or too coked up, they wouldn't have been able to commit to it properly in that moment. The quality of what they produced with the first sketches shows me that they were still mostly "with it", and therefore not overly inebriated. They'd have been a lot more rough if they were totally drunk or coked up.

But a person totally stoned on weed could definitely have produced something that coherent. So my "educated guess" would say it was predominantly weed-inspired, then cheap beer, and maaaaaybe a dusting of coke.

You'd probably have to ask Kev and hope he wasn't in one of his lying moods. Peter, to me, doesn't seem like the type to speak openly of his drug use even if it was decades ago.

Weed wasnt the prob for Bruce Lee , coke was.....it prolly killed him


Heard Cesar and Burgess smoked weed back then , it was the 60s too. Walken used to do acid with Raul Julia and prolly weed too , wouldnt be surprised if they smoked weed in Thailand filming Deer Hunter

"Anyone who knows a little about Ultimate Warrior knows he did roids and didn't keep his nose clean"

UW had admitted even on camera he did roids while Hogan lied.....i get the impression UW didnt do drugs while his wrestling buddies went out partying/did drugs he went to the gym to train. Never said UW a saint though

[MattOnWheels]

Well, one thing's for sure: If they were on drugs....Thank you, Drugs! :lol: