When did The Simpsons get bad?

[Prowler]

I think we all can agree that The Simpsons don't have the same quality as they did back in the 90s.

Why did this happen? Gonna speculate changes in the writing staff combined with the show being on air for such long time resulting in the creativity tank running dry.

But what's the point where The Simpsons became a bad show?

A lot of people say that the 1997 episode The Principal and the Pauper was the turning point/jumping of the shark moment, but I don't think I agree with that. I was still enjoying The Simpsons up until 2003 or so. The early 2000s seasons certainly felt "different" from classic Simpsons seasons, but I definitely enjoyed the episodes still. Even if there were less great episodes on average.

Around the mid-2000s, I stopped watching The Simpsons. And didn't even watch the movie. Tbh that's more or less when icbrgna noticing online criticism for The Simpsons. Which surprised me a bit.

Anyway around 2009 or 2010 I saw a few episodes of the latest season... and they weren't good. One was about ipods, which were called mipods on the show. Another one was about Homer inviting a Muslim couple over for dinner and then accusing them of being terrorists or something? Neither episode was funny and just seemed... off in comparison to The Simpsons I grew up watching.

So I'm guessing somewhere around 2004-2009 the show lost a ton of quality.

What do you think?

[Anarchistguy]

I personally stopped caring about this show about around seasons 9-10. ( 1997-1998 )

[superstaff]

If it's like most other places on the internet, the overwhelming answer you will get is season 9-10.

I tend to agree with this myself. I think season 9 is when the decline began, and the show's gotten worse, and worse, and now it's just unwatchable. Sometimes people will tell me, "Oh, but the Lego episode is funny!" or "Hey, the episode that parodies 24 is pretty hilarious!" but.......meh. I don't...really care about those premises once I read about them because they're just gimmicks, gimmicks meant to mask the poor overall quality of the show now.

On another note, it doesn't help that the show used to be a biting social commentary in the 90s, and has now been reduced to the writers agreeing that Apu is a 'bad character' rather than satirizing the situation in a clever way, like how the original seasons likely would have.

[Prowler]

If it's like most other places on the internet, the overwhelming answer you will get is season 9-10.

I tend to agree with this myself. I think season 9 is when the decline began, and the show's gotten worse, and worse, and now it's just unwatchable. Sometimes people will tell me, "Oh, but the Lego episode is funny!" or "Hey, the episode that parodies 24 is pretty hilarious!" but.......meh. I don't...really care about those premises once I read about them because they're just gimmicks, gimmicks meant to mask the poor overall quality of the show now.

On another note, it doesn't help that the show used to be a biting social commentary in the 90s, and has now been reduced to the writers agreeing that Apu is a 'bad character' rather than satirizing the situation in a clever way, like how the original seasons likely would have.

Is that the Flsncrest Enterprise episode season? I liked that one.

[superstaff]

Is that the Flsncrest Enterprise episode season? I liked that one.

I believe so.

I don't hate season 9 as much as some do, though I think this the pinpoint of when the writing began to get lazier, and the show was losing steam.

[Prowler]

I believe so.

I don't hate season 9 as much as some do, though I think this the pinpoint of when the writing began to get lazier, and the show was losing steam.

Well I don't think the series got bad overnight. So perhaps it was around the late 90s where the first signs of decline began showing. But took some years for it to hit rock bottom.

When I was a kid my brother taped every single Simpsons episode he caught on TV. We had about 25 VHS tapes with Simpsons alone. But our VHS players died over a decade ago, so it's been so long since I've marathoned the first 12 or 13 seasons.

[AquaParade]

I fully agree with Season 9 being the last great one. Even then, it's on the decline, but still great.

I can watch those first 9 seasons for the rest of my life. They're so good! And the drop-off is easily noticeable around that time period, but I can still occasionally enjoy episodes from beyond season 9.

[Prowler]

Every couple of years or so, you hear a rumor of The Simpsons finally getting cancelled but it never happens.

Even if it doesn't get very high ratings nowadays, I bet the series is living off its brand name recognition at this point and some people who have been huge fans since the 90s probably still stick around out of habit.

Kinda like a lot of the WWE fans left are people who grew up with it in the 80s and 90s and have hated it since 2001 for the most part, but yet keep on watching it out of habit.

[Anarchistguy]

Kinda like a lot of the WWE fans left are people who grew up with it in the 80s and 90s and have hated it since 2001 for the most part, but yet keep on watching it out of habit.

Basically around the time of post WM 17 and the company changing its name to WWE

[Leo656]

I think the Fake Skinner episode was the sign that things were heading south, but I still liked several episodes that came out in the subsequent Seasons. It got "zanier", which was far from what the show was originally created to be, but there were still a few good episodes.

I'd say early-2000s is when it got irredeemably bad. They very blatantly started copying Family Guy's humor, and I actually love Family Guy more than most people but The Simpsons isn't that, and shouldn't be that. All the main characters got Flanderized, and nobody had any depth anymore.

Once they had to start using the "sliding timeline" to dance around the fact that the show had been on TV too long, it started getting really bad. The older episodes about Young Homer and Marge in the 70s and 80s were classics, but the newer ones where they were young in the 90s and 2000s were just godawful. Then they decided to just stop doing Present-Day stories seemingly altogether, and fell in love with the Future Timeline stuff where Milhouse was a zombie and whatever other horse sh*t. There's a whole fleshed-out timeline with the Future Simpsons now and it's f*cking terrible.

They also just started blatantly sucking off celebrities at one point, and it was really unbearable. That Lady Gaga episode is one of the worst episodes of TV ever made, period.

The movie was another problem. They waited way too long to do it - anytime before 1995 was the right time, and anytime after that was past the point of anyone caring about it - and it wasn't even very good. What should have been the crowning moment of the entire Simpsons saga ended up being just one more reminder that it had long outstayed its welcome. Who even remembers the movie, or what it was about? All anyone remembers is the stupid Spider-Pig gag, and that's because both Then and Now it's all the commercials talked about. The movie isn't "bad", it's just... there. It's like drinking flat Ginger ale, it goes right through you and leaves no impression at all.

I empathize with the writers, as they always said part of why they'd never done a movie sooner was because they couldn't figure out what it would even be about... but the movie they made only hammered home that, yeah, they REALLY had no idea what the movie should be about.

Realistically, it probably should have ended right around the year 2000 and had the movie come out then as the big send-off.

[AquaParade]

Every couple of years or so, you hear a rumor of The Simpsons finally getting cancelled but it never happens.

Even if it doesn't get very high ratings nowadays, I bet the series is living off its brand name recognition at this point and some people who have been huge fans since the 90s probably still stick around out of habit.

Kinda like a lot of the WWE fans left are people who grew up with it in the 80s and 90s and have hated it since 2001 for the most part, but yet keep on watching it out of habit.

I think the Disney buyout has given it new life, as crazy as that is. I remember reading that it was one of the top-viewed programs when Disney+ launched and I heard the showrunner say that this "season" of Simpsons has more content than any other one, if you include the shorts and specials they've been doing.
I wonder how well merchandise does these days.

I can see Simpsons sticking around for quite a while longer. Maybe even becoming like Mickey Mouse and his crew, over time, popping up in one form or another, even if the show, as we know it, morphs or goes away.

For me, it will be hard to recognize it once the main voice actors are gone. I don't watch all the new episodes, but I can enjoy them on some level when I do tune in, because the the characters still feel relatively intact, due to the great voice work.

[sdp]

Around season 3, when they shifted from Bart to Homer is when the shows soul was compromised for cheap laughs, which kept détériorating over time, you can argue that happened in S9/10 but it was when the show shifted focus that it was one inevitable mthat everyone would become parodies of themselves

[Prowler]

This brings up another question...

What was the first ever Simpsons episode with a celebrity guest star that wasn't good?

I remember disliking the Mel Gibson episode. That was the first episode of season 11, it seems.

[ZariusTwo]

Kinda like a lot of the WWE fans left are people who grew up with it in the 80s and 90s and have hated it since 2001 for the most part, but yet keep on watching it out of habit.

I thought WWE was fine right up until 2008 when they officially went PG, and again from 2015 through to 2019. I've never developed a 'second wind' with The Simpsons, even the ones people tell me are a 'return to form' feel laboured and tired.

For me, the show ended with the Frank Grimes story in season eight. Most of the show had wrapped up whatever passed for loose threads by that point.

[Prowler]

Around season 3, when they shifted from Bart to Homer is when the shows soul was compromised for cheap laughs, which kept détériorating over time, you can argue that happened in S9/10 but it was when the show shifted focus that it was one inevitable mthat everyone would become parodies of themselves

Another terrible opinion from you. Unbelievable...

[Coola Yagami]

Eh, the sliding timeline. Like idk... Just stop making flashback Homer and Marge episodes then.

Celebrities playing themselves instead of being guest voice actors.

All these teen related problems and fads that are mostly happening to teens but are instead happening to Bart and Lisa since the show doesn't have any teens to explore these issues.

The main thing is, Simpsons uses to criticize the establishment, now they are the establishment. I mean they used to poke fun at Clinton and Bush equally, but I don't recall Obama ever being on that show.

Maybe they should do teen/adult Bart and Lisa eps but taking place in modern day so they don't have to do all the stupid robot and alien future gags.

[Leo656]

The newer episodes where all the black characters are now voiced by "authentic black people" are very annoying. We've heard what Carl and Dr. Hibbert and Lou sound like for 30+ years, and now they sound completely different and it's VERY noticeable and very annoying.

I'm only ever half-watching it anymore when it's on, and suddenly I'll hear a voice I don't recognize, so I'll look up from my reading like "Who's that?" And it'll turn out to be Carl or Dr. Hibbert, and I'm just like, "Oh, Jesus." :roll: It's every bit as bad as when the FW TMNT had fill-in VAs that sounded nothing at all like the previous VAs. They're not even close.

Marge is definitely gonna sound a lot different very soon, if the show stays on. Julie Kavner is 71, if you've seen her these days she definitely looks like she's not gonna be around much longer (as morbid as that is to say, I'm just being honest), and you can already hear it in her voice acting. Marge SOUNDS like she's 70-something, all of a sudden, and it's almost as distracting as the blatantly-wrong voices coming out of the other characters.

So if the show stays on another few years, we're gonna be hearing a new Marge pretty soon. I kinda hope they just stop before it gets to that point. Replacing background characters with bad replacements is one thing, but you can't/shouldn't do that with the main cast. Why force people to accept that just to keep the show on the air? Everybody hates the show now anyway, nobody wants to watch it with FAKE Simpsons VAs playing the main family members. Once you even have to think about replacing Marge, or Homer, or ANY of them, just pull the f*cking plug.

[Prowler]

Eh, the sliding timeline. Like idk... Just stop making flashback Homer and Marge episodes then.

Celebrities playing themselves instead of being guest voice actors.

All these teen related problems and fads that are mostly happening to teens but are instead happening to Bart and Lisa since the show doesn't have any teens to explore these issues.

The main thing is, Simpsons uses to criticize the establishment, now they are the establishment. I mean they used to poke fun at Clinton and Bush equally, but I don't recall Obama ever being on that show.

There was a point where more and more episodes became about Lisa. When did that happen again, exactly? I no longer remember. I never liked them making Lisa a vegetarian.

[Leo656]

There was a point where more and more episodes became about Lisa. When did that happen again, exactly? I no longer remember. I never liked them making Lisa a vegetarian.

Probably when the entire writing staff started to skew Hard Left.

It's ironic that the writers love using Lisa as the way to scold the audience for having the "wrong" beliefs, given that she's by far the most hated character in the main cast now BECAUSE of that. People used to empathize with Lisa somewhat, but now she's just insufferable and nobody likes her or feels bad for her at all.

Just goes to show you how out of touch the writers are with the people who actually watch the show.

[Prowler]

Probably when the entire writing staff started to skew Hard Left.

It's ironic that the writers love using Lisa as the way to scold the audience for having the "wrong" beliefs, given that she's by far the most hated character in the main cast now BECAUSE of that. People used to empathize with Lisa somewhat, but now she's just insufferable and nobody likes her or feels bad for her at all.

Just goes to show you how out of touch the writers are with the people who actually watch the show.

Around the late 90s, significant changes to the Simpsons writing staff were made. Some went on to work on Futurama, the newest Matt Groening series, and I believe one writer even died around that time as well. Clearly the replacements they found for them just weren't as good.

Yes, Lisa was a good voice of reason in the early days. The most normal and smartest person in the family, but she wasn't insufferable nor did she force her views on you. Lisa was simply the girl who was into playing the saxophone and listening to jazz.

As for the voice actors, it's kinda funny because you'd think they'd be easy to replace. Ask people irl if they can impersonate any cartoon characters, and there's always a Simpsons character or two they can impersonate. But I guess we just grow attached to their original VAs. Especially since they have been voicing them since day one.

[drgon78]

I still enjoyed the series up to season 20, personally I think it should have been cancelled then and had more movies every 3-5 years after the first.

[neatoman]

I would say it's something of a gradual decline, which is why you may get different answers but many people will state Principal and the Pauper as the start of it. I'm not sure that episode is bad enough or that season 9 as a whole is bad enough to qualify it as the start of the show being generally bad, but the fact that the show was willing to contradict everything that had been built up about one of the most important supporting characters was no doubt a sign that they didn't really care anymore.

If we have to go with the first season that contained mostly bad episodes, it's season 11.

Beyond Blunderdome
Brother's Little Helper
Hello Gutter, Hello Fadder
Eight Misbehavin
Little Big Mom
Saddlesore Galactica
Missionary: Impossible
Pygmoelian
Bart to the Future
Kill the Alligator and Run
Behind the Laughter

And if nothing else, season 11 is also responsible for the idiotic "Sneed Feed and Seed" meme. I know people making a stupid meme doesn't really make the episode itself bad, but still.

[AquaParade]

They need to do something special while the Simpson family voice actors are still around, imo.

Can’t they get Conan back to write a special? Or some other classic writers for one last send off? Obviously the show wouldn’t go away, but it could be a spritual finale, in a sense. A final movie to end the show as we know it.

Probably too late and I should just enjoy my 9+ seasons. Just saying, it’d be nice.

For me, it’s interesting to think of how they may reboot the show at some point. It feels inevitable in a way. I suppose they could keep the same format and slowly morph over time. But what if they decided it needed a fresh coat of paint, and the main voice actors were gone - what would they do?
I’m not saying it’d be good, but I’m curious what it would or could be.

[Leo656]

I never know what any episodes of any TV show were called, so I'd appreciate some clarification as to which episodes those actually were, neatoman. Titles don't tell me anything. I literally have never even seen any of those titles before except for "Behind the Laughter". I couldn't even tell you what even one of those episodes were about, even though I no doubt have seen every single one of them a hundred times.

I never watched Friends, but I adore their naming conceit. Having every episode be named "The One Where..." and then whatever happened in the episode, was brilliant because realistically that's how every human being discusses TV shows.

For example, literally nobody ever calls the one Simpsons episode "The Principal and the Pauper" when discussing it. They call it "The one where we found out Skinner wasn't Skinner", or some similar variant. Therefore, that's its real title no matter what it says on paper.

[Prowler]

I never know what any episodes of any TV show were called, so I'd appreciate some clarification as to which episodes those actually were, neatoman. Titles don't tell me anything. I literally have never even seen any of those titles before except for "Behind the Laughter". I couldn't even tell you what even one of those episodes were about, even though I no doubt have seen every single one of them a hundred times.

I never watched Friends, but I adore their naming conceit. Having every episode be named "The One Where..." and then whatever happened in the episode, was brilliant because realistically that's how every human being discusses TV shows.

For example, literally nobody ever calls the one Simpsons episode "The Principal and the Pauper" when discussing it. They call it "The one where we found out Skinner wasn't Skinner", or some similar variant. Therefore, that's its real title no matter what it says on paper.

Especially since The Simpsons would never tell you the title of the episode you were watching. You actually need to go check The Simpsons wiki episode list to know the names of its episodes.

Seinfeld and Curb Your Enthusiasm are very straight forward and simple with their episode titles. They are usually only two or three words long and start with "The". The Contest, The Comeback, The Dog, The Marine Biologist, The Chinese Restaurant, etc.

Even if Seinfeld doesn't tell you the titles of its episodes at the beginning, you can pretty much guess which episode it is as soon as you see someone name dropping it. With The Simpsons, that's not always so easy.

[Coola Yagami]

It's funny how that one early episode was called 'Bart gets hit by a car' and we actually see the title pop up. I think it's the only episode that ever showed a title. Like it either slipped, or someone decided to try it and someone else was like 'nah, that's stupid. Don't do it again'.

[AquaParade]

I never noticed that. Neat little price of trivia.

[Jester]

I'm terrible about sticking with shows even though the quality has tanked in hopes a new episode will reclaim its former glory. Angela and I still watch Simpsons every week and are often disappointed...especially if it's a Lisa-centric episode. Lisa sucks and her episodes suck and more and more episodes center around her.

My wife and I used to watch Law and Order: SVU together but she dropped off because she has better things to do and isn't a masochist. I'll occasionally tell her the plot of episodes that I feel either are a return to form, or, more often than not, are endemic of why she dropped of in the first place. I also still catch the resurrected Law and Order and the other spin-off Organized Crime.

I also still watch SNL each week. It's hit or miss but most weeks there's a sketch or two that make me smile.

[Coola Yagami]

I never noticed that. Neat little price of trivia.

I'm not sure if they do it anymore in this new HD era, but I seem to recall older episodes would show have the title in the ending credits. Like 'whatever episode title was written by' or whatever, so that was at least one way to know the titles.

[AquaParade]

I'm not sure if they do it anymore in this new HD era, but I seem to recall older episodes would show have the title in the ending credits. Like 'whatever episode title was written by' or whatever, so that was at least one way to know the titles.

Now that I think about it, I know a lot of episode names, but can’t recall how. Maybe just from discussing it online.

Edit: oh yeah, I guess they were on the dvds.

[Coola Yagami]

Now that I think about it, I know a lot of episode names, but can’t recall how. Maybe just from discussing it online.

Edit: oh yeah, I guess they were on the dvds.

That also made it easier LOL

One thing I found odd is, I know the script reads 'annoyed grunt' when Dan is supposed to say 'd'oh!!' but 'annoyed grunt' was in some of the titles even when it was obvious the title was meant to be something that rhymes with 'd'oh and it just ruins it, lol.

[Leo656]

It's even stupider because it takes a lot more time and energy to type "Annoyed Grunt" than "D'oh". Once "D'oh" became part of the public consciousness the scriptwriters should have followed suit and just started typing it in the scripts as "D'oh". Yet as far as I'm aware, they still officially write it as "Annoyed Grunt". For no f*cking reason.

Goes to show you what kind of idiots we're dealing with, here.

I bet they still type "Disgruntled Murmur" in the scripts for Marge, instead of "Mmmrrrrr" or whatever. Because they're assholes.

[Wildcat]

Never for me. There was a couple seasons around the late 2000s I thought it hit a slump but I don’t remember the episodes.

I don’t think Lisa is used to scold the audience. I actually think she became more likable. Bart was always the “cool” one but because Lisa is the “nerd” I can see more people relating to her now.

I guess the major difference between the first half of the series and now is the tone is a little more cute...but it was never THAT mature. Except maybe the Sideshow Bob and Halloween episodes.

Also I mentioned it before in some other Simpsons discussion but the art and animation nowadays is so much better. Even compared to the 2000s. It’s just so nice to watch.

I know a lot cartoon’s animation improves over time but it’s very apparent in The Simpsons. It’s kinda jarring seeing early reruns.

[Coola Yagami]

Never for me. There was a couple seasons around the late 2000s I thought it hit a slump but I don’t remember the episodes.

I don’t think Lisa is used to scold the audience. I actually think she became more likable. Bart was always the “cool” one but because Lisa is the “nerd” I can see more people relating to her now.

I guess the major difference between the first half of the series and now is the tone is a little more cute...but it was never THAT mature. Except maybe the Sideshow Bob and Halloween episodes.

Also I mentioned it before in some other Simpsons discussion but the art and animation nowadays is so much better. Even compared to the 2000s. It’s just so nice to watch.

I know a lot cartoon’s animation improves over time but it’s very apparent in The Simpsons. It’s kinda jarring seeing early reruns.

I want whatever you're smoking.

[ZariusTwo]

Also I mentioned it before in some other Simpsons discussion but the art and animation nowadays is so much better. Even compared to the 2000s. It’s just so nice to watch.

It's overproduced and souless.

I guess the major difference between the first half of the series and now is the tone is a little more cute...but it was never THAT mature

You've never seen an early episode.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm not really qualified to answer this. By the time the Simpsons movie came out, I was already largely tuned out to it. Not because I was soured over it but just because... well, I don't know. Just wasn't "must see TV" to me anymore. I guess I figured someday I'd come back to it and catch up. I think that was always my plan until everywhere I turned was people saying it just turned to sh**.

That said, there was a certain magical quality to it early on. It struck me as a kid that it seemed to bother adults that there was a cartoon that was "adult" yet kids were loving. Which, of course, made it all the more provocative to check out. All of my friends did.

Huh. In a funny way, maybe Simpsons replaced TMNT for a patch in time. For my particular corner of the PNW. We moved on of course, but it was definitely a thing. Definitely when we were full-on doing Simpsons, I don't know if we were comparing TMNT toys anymore.

[Wildcat]

It's overproduced and souless.No if it was still considered great by the majority nobody would be complaining the art and animation looked too nice. That’s just not a thing. That’s totally separate from the quality of the writing anyway.

You’ve never seen an early episode.I’ve been watching since about the very beginning. Not the Tracy Ullman shorts but when it was a full show. A friend from school got me into it. I have the old First Season DVD set but never kept up.

Unless you’re talking about the difference in art/animation. There’s clearly a major difference. There was for Family Guy too. That also looks better now but I like The Simpsons look more.

I understand when shows first start they’re not entirely fleshed out yet. Even live action sitcoms have a lower budget feel to them and basic sets. I’m not holding it against cartoons.

[superstaff]

My wife and I used to watch Law and Order: SVU together but she dropped off because she has better things to do and isn't a masochist. I'll occasionally tell her the plot of episodes that I feel either are a return to form, or, more often than not, are endemic of why she dropped of in the first place. I also still catch the resurrected Law and Order and the other spin-off Organized Crime.

Ah, a fellow SVU fan.

I think the show was mostly great (although had its bad episodes even early on), and then Stabler left in season 12. The decline began there, but I think it became unwatchable in season 17. Up until then, there were at least watchable/quality episodes even amongst the muck. I think it's gotten worse and worse, similar to The Simpsons. It's a shadow of its former self.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Another terrible opinion from you. Unbelievable...

I mean, I wouldn't say he's completely wrong. I think the show was a lot more endearing when Bart was the breakout character because it had the more wholesome moments that you don't get in subsequent seasons. And yes, seasons 4-8 are funny as hell but Bart's facetime was when I think there were some very special moments. And honestly while Homer was funnier but other times, he was obnoxious.

[sdp]

It's too late to give a proper send off to the Simpsons now. Key VAs have been replaced, Marge doesn't sound like Marge anymore, most characters charm have been compromised. It was already too late for the shoes 20th season and who knows if it'll reach its 40th. It'll be canceled one of these days and go out on a whimper. Disney buying Fox meant they were going to milk that dry cow even further since it's the most iconic thing Fox owned, they weren't going to gracefully cancel the show right after getting it even it would've been for the best.
We'll get tons of Simpsons stuff the next few years and a second movie for sure. And you can be sure that if Lisa or Marges VA dies first they'll be replaced, and no one will make a big deal out of it because they've already replaced iconic roles and no one cares enough about new Simpsons enough to make it a big deal. The show will continue getting worse and worse until it dies.

I mean, I wouldn't say he's completely wrong. I think the show was a lot more endearing when Bart was the breakout character because it had the more wholesome moments that you don't get in subsequent seasons. And yes, seasons 4-8 are funny as hell but Bart's facetime was when I think there were some very special moments. And honestly while Homer was funnier but other times, he was obnoxious.

Exactly, that's when the soul of the show was compromised and the seeds to it becoming a parody of itself and would become were planted.
When it was about Bart it was more realistic as far as the adventures went, the characters had wilder designs and even the trees were purple. It had soul.

When they changed to Homer being the focus sure it became funnier but st the expense of the characters, homer be some dumber every season, Simpsons started getting wilder stories like Homer going to space and characters started becoming one note with their specific traits.

We didn't care because it was funny at the time but if you see what people complain about it's for those exact reasons. But when you have show that never ends well you run out of ideas so you keep exaggerating those things. The staff did leave for Futurama but it was likely also because they needed something fresh to continue doing quality work.

------------
I plan to rewatch everything Simpsons one day. It's a fair point that we judge a show we haven't watched in nearly two decades.
I doubt it's good based on what I've seen but i think it just might be "decent enough" which is why some people still watch and defend it. Characters were flanderized long ago, storylines had to get crazier since they've done everything already and other shows stepped up the game but the Simpsons might not be amazing but decent enough for people to watch. I'll confirm one day I watch through everything, it's easy to hate on a show you stopped watching.

All shows deserve a fair unbiased watch, well except the later part of the arrowverse, **** that ****.

[Leo656]

The art and animation is terrible now. It LOOKS like it was done on a computer, far too "clean" and completely sterile. Everyone stands perfectly still like one of their action figures, until it's time to talk. It looks terrible compared to the earlier hand-drawn episodes which, while admittedly "rougher", had tons more personality.

You used to get things like small facial tics and subtle movements in between speaking spots. All of that is gone now. "Soulless" would be an apt description. It's been a problem in cartoon shows ever since computer animation became the standard. Everything obviously looks more "clean" with smoother lines but it also looks like no human hands ever touched it and it was all done by robots. It's awful.

In the "real" Simpsons episodes, nothing was ever static, there was near-constant motion and movement and it was very dynamic. In a simple shot of Bart walking through a room, for example, he might be whistling, moving his head side to side, taking his hands in and out of his pockets, all at once... now, it's a lot more likely that a shot of Bart walking through a room would be JUST that, without any of those little quirks... just a plain, boring shot of a computer-animated Bart walking stiffly through a room, until he reaches the point where he would be programmed to stop and talk to someone. Boring. Flat. Sterile. No life or personality to it. The characters are all robots.

The earliest episodes might have looked like someone drew them in a moving car, but at least they had personality and style. Ironically enough, while the modern episodes are "drawn better" they look like garbage comparatively. This is true of every long-running cartoon that underwent the switch to computer animation. Computers simply cannot capture the spark of life that's inherent in hand-drawn animation. Even shows that are "drawn bad on purpose" to try and simulate the effect of "real" cartoons, such as Bob's Burgers, fail to capture this. It's part of the whole "uncanny valley" thing.
------------

I can't even fathom how anyone would think the newer stuff was "cute". If anything the show has become a LOT more mean-spirited ever since Family Guy got more popular and thus The Simpsons was forced to copy it.

They seemingly constantly have Homer and Marge's marriage barely hanging on by a thread, always teasing that they're going to cheat on each other, or should, implying or flat-out saying that they'd be better off with other people, the "future" episodes show them divorced and estranged, Bart's gone from just being a scamp who still has a good heart to a flat-out Bad Person and the show's "future" timeline makes no illusions about him being a complete failure, Lisa's become more and more a parody of herself (like everyone) and her future shows her to be a bitter failure who had to settle for Milhouse... it's just a non-stop reminder of "These are terrible people with terrible lives and they're all going to grow old and unhappy because frankly they're all too stupid to ever change course."

That's not "cute", it's f*cking depressing. The show used to be a LOT more hopeful and optimistic, once upon a time. And sure, the way they're depicted and the way its portrayed that in the future they'll all be dismal failures might be "realistic", but nobody watches The Simpsons to see that crap. It's escapist entertainment. Nobody wants to be beaten over the head with "Yeah, Homer and Marge's marriage is destined to fail" or "Bart's either going to be in and out of jail or otherwise die young", or any of that.

It's all gotten way too cynical and that's not at all what the show was ever intended to be.

[superstaff]

I can't even fathom how anyone would think the newer stuff was "cute". If anything the show has become a LOT more mean-spirited ever since Family Guy got more popular and thus The Simpsons was forced to copy it.

They seemingly constantly have Homer and Marge's marriage barely hanging on by a thread, always teasing that they're going to cheat on each other, or should, implying or flat-out saying that they'd be better off with other people, the "future" episodes show them divorced and estranged, Bart's gone from just being a scamp who still has a good heart to a flat-out Bad Person and the show's "future" timeline makes no illusions about him being a complete failure, Lisa's become more and more a parody of herself (like everyone) and her future shows her to be a bitter failure who had to settle for Milhouse... it's just a non-stop reminder of "These are terrible people with terrible lives and they're all going to grow old and unhappy because frankly they're all too stupid to ever change course."

Yeah. This is the exact rant my spouse went on when he talked about why modern Simpsons sucks now. Word for word to the point that I laughed out loud reading this because of how accurate it is to it. And I very much agree with all this as well.

That's not "cute", it's f*cking depressing. The show used to be a LOT more hopeful and optimistic, once upon a time. And sure, the way they're depicted and the way its portrayed that in the future they'll all be dismal failures might be "realistic", but nobody watches The Simpsons to see that crap. It's escapist entertainment. Nobody wants to be beaten over the head with "Yeah, Homer and Marge's marriage is destined to fail" or "Bart's either going to be in and out of jail or otherwise die young", or any of that.

It's all gotten way too cynical and that's not at all what the show was ever intended to be.

YEP. It's not even just The Simpsons, a lot of shows are doing this too, going full post modernist with the whole "welp, all these characters you love? guess what? they're going to fail and be miserable and die alone. you love them and want them happy? then you're a moron! LOL!". I don't think I'm exaggerating with that being the tone these writers go for either. Examples? The Star Wars sequels, Nu Trek like Picard, That new Daniel Craig Bond movie, Terminator Dark Fate (and basically all the post-T2 ones), and so on.

[AquaParade]

I agree about the soulless animation in modern episodes. It does have it’s advantages, but it lacks charm.

When you watch an old episode, some things are drawn very loosely, but it somehow works with the aesthetic. Little things, like a gas pedal will be drawn like a squiggly piece of dog turd, but your eyes don’t focus in on it. It’s drawn well enough for your eyes to recognize it, and overall lends a “warmth” or humanity to the overall picture.

I don’t mean to call the old animation lazy. It had style and confidence.

The biggest change in animation came with the movie, if I remember correctly. They had to give extra shading and whatnot, in order to give people a theater-worthy experience. Give them all they paid for. At least that was the thinking. Then those models carried over to the television show, if I remember correctly.


At least the couch gags are still really cool. It’s like the best part of modern episodes, in the same way covers have become the best part of modern comics.

Btw, anyone else have “Bart Simpson’s Guide to Life” growing up? That was my bible.

[Coola Yagami]

YEP. It's not even just The Simpsons, a lot of shows are doing this too, going full post modernist with the whole "welp, all these characters you love? guess what? they're going to fail and be miserable and die alone. you love them and want them happy? then you're a moron! LOL!". I don't think I'm exaggerating with that being the tone these writers go for either. Examples? The Star Wars sequels, Nu Trek like Picard, That new Daniel Craig Bond movie, Terminator Dark Fate (and basically all the post-T2 ones), and so on.

Pretty much that life sucks, we're all miserable, so let's make everybody miserable. Not even our childhood heroes get to have happy endings.

I swear a lot of these hashtag causes are to make sure everyone is as miserable as the people starting them.

[Leo656]

Yeah. This is the exact rant my spouse went on when he talked about why modern Simpsons sucks now. Word for word to the point that I laughed out loud reading this because of how accurate it is to it. And I very much agree with all this as well.



YEP. It's not even just The Simpsons, a lot of shows are doing this too, going full post modernist with the whole "welp, all these characters you love? guess what? they're going to fail and be miserable and die alone. you love them and want them happy? then you're a moron! LOL!". I don't think I'm exaggerating with that being the tone these writers go for either. Examples? The Star Wars sequels, Nu Trek like Picard, That new Daniel Craig Bond movie, Terminator Dark Fate (and basically all the post-T2 ones), and so on.

I mean, I'm as cynical as it gets but even I find that trend exhausting.

For example, I'm on-record, I love Family Guy more than most people and a lot of that is BECAUSE it's so nasty and abrasive and mean-spirited... but I certainly don't want EVERYTHING to be like that. Simpsons definitely should not be like that. For as much hullaballoo when we were kids about how it was so "scandalous" and that it was going to be the complete downfall of modern society and all that nonsense... The Simpsons was always oddly and incredibly wholesome once you got over "OMG the little kid says 'damn' and 'hell' and they showed a naked butt... what kind of trash are they pushing on our children?!" But if a person actually sat and watched it, it was a very wholesome show.

Now it's just like anything else, down in the gutter. Very sad.
--------------

What I had was the book "The Simpsons: A Complete Guide to Our Favorite Family", which had a bunch of neat trivia and anecdotes. I *believe* that book was where it was first revealed that "d'oh!" was written in the scripts as "Annoyed Grunt".

Everything I'm finding about it says it was released in 1997 but I'd swear that I had it much earlier than that. Maybe I had an early copy and they rereleased it later, or something.

Also, I remember when the comic book "Simpsons Comics and Stories" came out in 1993 and everyone needed to have a copy. You couldn't find it for a while since it was "hot", being the first-ever Simpsons comic book, and if you did find it then it was like $30. Then a few years passed and you could find it almost anywhere for like $5, which is when I finally got a copy. Now it's apparently worth hundreds of dollars, or over $1000 if it's graded. Madness. I got my $5 copy not even all that long ago, maybe 2005-ish.

Then the Bongo line started and people were pretty hot for that stuff, too. They had the regular Simpsons comic, Bartman, Itchy & Scratchy and Radioactive Man. Simpsons was pretty generic, but fine, Bartman was more of a super-hero comic... Radioactive Man was the best. That one was a mini-series that started in the 50s and jumped ahead a decade with each issue, and each issue was in turn a satire of whatever trends were prevalent in comics at that time. Like they parodied the issue of Green Lantern/Green Arrow where Speedy became a junkie, by having it be Fallout Boy becoming a hippie. :lol: And then when they got to the 90s issue, they parodied Spawn by having Radioactive Man's cape be 20 miles long and sh*t like that. That was definitely the best-written of the Simpsons books even thought the Simpsons themselves had nothing to do with it. But then since it was so popular, they made it an ongoing while still keeping the "jump around from decade to decade at random" gimmick - which makes organizing the series insane because you have to choose whether to store them by number or by publication date, since the issues were all printed out of order on purpose - but it just wasn't the same or as good as the original mini-series.

I never cared much for the Itchy & Scratchy book. It was kinda just like Loony Tunes or the Muppets, where they're just actors who do bits and the comic was all about their offscreen antics. It was alright but I didn't think it was terribly funny. I think I only really bought it when they did the "When Bongos Collide" cross-over one Summer and had it cross over with The Simpsons and Bartman.

That stuff really takes me back.

[Prowler]

I disagree entirely with those who say that shifting the focus from Bart to Homer after season 3 was a bad move.

Now, Bart had a lot of classic and memorable episodes, and he's my favourite Simpson after Homer, but with Homer you just have a lot more different possibilities when it comes to telling stories. Especially in a series that's primarily aimed at older audiences. Bart centric episodes mostly focused on him getting in trouble at school or getting in trouble outside of it by shoplifting at a mall. He's a 4th grader. There's not that many different stories you can tell with a character that young. And Bart, like Homer, isn't very smart or responsible, so you can't tell the same kind of stories with Bart that you can with Lisa.

Also, the golden age of The Simpsons begins just right after the main focus shifts from Bart to Homer. Season 4 is probably the best season in the whole series. Not that the first 3 seasons were bad, but the show's prime was between seasons 4 and 8. Most of the episodes people love and cherish are from those seasons.

Even when I was a kid, I found Home rmore entertaining and interesting than Bart.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, the show has some of it's best moments post-season 3.

That said, I sometimes see people exclude season 2 from the "golden era", which I wholeheartedly disagree with. It's not the show firing on all cylinders, but it's a great, somewhat grounded season, that has a lot of the strengths of 3-9, while offering a slightly different flavor.

[Prowler]

Oh yeah there's definitely a lot of good stuff in the early seasons. They are the best seasons after the golden age ones.

One thing that I always notice in the early seasons is how different Homer's voice tone/cadence sounded. He had a deeper and less cartoony voice.

Anyway, Leo mentioned Family Guy and The Simpsons becoming more like it. Which reminds me...

Many many years ago, I'm gonna say mid-2000s, one of the criticisms people gave Family Guy was it being a Simpsons rip-off. This due to the apparent core similarities between both shows. The family structure is similar and Peter is dumb just like Homer. That being said, I think that's really the extent of the similarities between Family Guy and classic Simpsons. Family Guy always had a completely different style, humor, formula and writing from the get-go. I'm sure Seth MacFarlane was heavily inspired by The Simpsons, but he managed to create something unique nonetheless.

So it's kind of sad and ironic that The Simpsons seem to have become more like Family Guy in the last decade. That's not how the show was intended to be. Sounds line The Simpsons lost their identity.

I know changed to writing staff are bound to happen in long running series. But I believe South Park was still loved by its fans until not that many years ago. And Family Guy is still liked by its fans to this day. So how exactly did Simpsons lose its plot? Couldn't they find better writers to replace the ones who left?

Anyway, the main reason why The Simpsons haven't been cancelled yet is probably not so much because of TV ratings since nowadays everyone just streams TV on their phone anyway. But probably because The Simpsons are more than a TV show. It's a brand. Possibly a very profitable one still. There's a lot of official Simpsons merch and products out there. Simpsons video games are generally trash, but if they didn't sell fairly well, I doubt they'd have made hundreds of them.

The Simpsons have reached a point where they'll never fully go away. Even if the TV series ends, I'd not be surprised to see a reboot or a spinoff coming out sometime later. Or perhaps even another movie.

The Simpsons have become the American Dragon Ball, pretty much. Too much of a cash cow to let it die.

[Leo656]

I still have a soft spot for the first couple of Seasons, even though they're not "the best". But I really love most of the first batch of episodes. The show hadn't found its groove yet but it was fun seeing it get its feet in real time. There's an undeniable charm there.

Plus, the first two Seasons were the only ones where I was able to watch them with my parents, so they have sentimental value for me. We used to sit and watch the new episodes every week while we had dinner, something we rarely did for anything. That stopped after a while; my Mom thought that the show was much too lowbrow and would be "a bad influence" on me, so she never really cared for it and eventually stopped watching it with us, and my Dad never completely got over the idea that a cartoon could ever be for anyone but little kids, so by the time the show got "really good" it was just me watching it. But we did get to watch the first two Seasons and maybe a little of the third together.

To this day it's the earliest ones I get the most excited for, whenever they show up in reruns. They're not "the best", but they were always replayed the least, clipped for time the most, and so whenever I get to see them nowadays in their complete form it makes me very happy. Plus they're just so "weird" compared to the later stuff and it's just interesting to see. By the time the show got "better", some of the excitement around it had waned just a bit. Those first two Seasons weren't the best but that's when the excitement was at its peak. The first line of action figures, the arcade game, the T-shirts that all the schools banned, the first record album... almost all of it came out before the show actually hit its stride. It all comes rushing back to me when I see those oldest episodes.

[Prowler]

Yes younger gens don't understand, but back then, The Simpsons were very ground breaking. They came out at a time where cartoons on TV were all made to sell toys to kids. Now there was this cartoon series that aired on a prime time slot and was aimed at older teens and adults.

There's nothing offensive or improper about The Simpsons tbh. There are no bad words or extreme violence in it or anything. Just some things that fly over your head when you're a kid. But I was always entertained by it. No parent was against their kids watching The Simpsons. South Park though? Yeah.

My mother respected The Simpsons and was surprised at how well-made it was considering it was a cartoon series.

There had been cartoons for adults before such as The Flinstones and Betty Boop, but they were nothing like The Simpsons. Had there not been The Simpsons we'd not have South Park, Futurama, Family Guy, Archer, American Dad, King of the Hill, etc.

[Leo656]

Oh, there were a LOT of parents, teachers and clergy who were outraged about The Simpsons. It mostly died down by Season 3, but those early days it was just like the South Park outrage. Albeit for much more innocuous reasons.

Basically, it all stemmed from the idea that "If it's a cartoon, it's meant for kids first and foremost." This despite the fact that the show The Simpsons originated from, the Tracey Ullman Show, was most certainly not a "kids' show". It wasn't exactly racy but there was quite a bit of risque' humor all the same. When I saw the show in reruns there were many things I'd missed or not noticed as a kid; a skit where one of Tracey's characters and Julie Kavner playing her "mom" were talking about dick size, and so on. So that show wasn't a kids' show, therefore it's strange that The Simpsons would be considered a kids' show, either, simply for being a cartoon.

But yeah, there was a ton of moral outrage. Mostly, because Bart was a disrespectful punk and all the kids thought he was cool, and so the idea was kids everywhere were gonna imitate him and start mouthing off to their parents, teachers, etc. Teachers were in an uproar about those "Underachiever and Proud of it!" T-shirts, because it was going to teach kids to be lazy slackers. Schools nationwide banned any Simpsons shirts; at my school, if you got caught wearing one they'd make you change into something from the Lost & Found. Churches were in an uproar because the show was "against God and morality" and was "promoting the breakdown of the family unit". In some of the REALLY strict conservative areas, churches organized burnings of Simpsons shirts and merchandise.

Anecdotally, I had a LOT of friends who weren't allowed to watch The Simpsons, it was full-on Banned in their house. Usually, it was because they said "damn" to their parents, or otherwise they probably said "I'm ______, who the hell are you?" to a grown-up. Most of the kids were pretty pissed about it, but a few of them actually supported it - always the "Christian" ones who went to church a lot. One time I asked my best friend if he'd seen the latest episode, and he was like "We don't watch that trash anymore in our house!" Turns out, in one of the more recent episodes they showed Bart streaking naked through the house, and you saw his butt, and the next day my friend's little brother who was 3 or 4 dropped his pants and ran through the house showing off his butt, so after that they weren't allowed to watch the Simpsons anymore. That was the dumbest thing I'd ever heard in my life, but I didn't say that out loud.

Even then-President George Bush got involved; in one of his speeches he said that American families were losing their values, and that "We need families that are more like The Waltons and less like The Simpsons!" In response, the Simpsons producers whipped up a little animated short where they were watching that Bush speech, and then Bart quips "Hey, we're just like The Waltons... we're waiting for an end to the recession, too!" :lol:

Now, to be clear, all of this hysteria went away very quickly. It was pretty much only the first two years, or less; after that, everyone calmed down once it was obvious the show wasn't breeding a generation of serial killers. All the T-shirt bans at school went away, all the parents who banned the show from their households eventually calmed down and let their kids watch it again, and so on. In hindsight, everyone agreed a few years later that they'd completely overreacted to the show upon its debut. And all the anger and hysteria vanished just as quickly as it had come.

But oh my, there definitely WAS a lot of outrage in the early days. People WERE treating it like Beavis & Butt-Head or South Park, at least the first year, which is absolutely ridiculous in hindsight. But that's how it went down, initially.

[Prowler]

Well, I didn't know any of that happened there tbh. Interesting and also kind of crazy.

I mean sure, Bart wasn't a well behaved kid, but neither was Calvin from Calvin and Hobbes. Was there any moral outrage about Calvin and Hobbes back in the 80s?

It really shows how much TV changed since then. To think The Simpsons were at some point one of the most controversial shows on TV... it just seems so silly nowadays.

Kinda like back in 1983, the Iron Maiden single The Number of the Beast must have shocked a lot of people. Nowadays, no one is outraged by Iron Maiden or metal bands in general talking about Satan. No one takes that seriously anymore.

[Leo656]

I don't think parents monitor their kids reading habits the same way they do their TV-watching habits.

Like, when I was 5 a family friend gave me the first Calvin & Hobbes collected edition and I read it a thousand times, but my parents never even looked at it. Conversely, up to a certain age they made it a point to know what I was watching on TV.

But yeah, it is stupid, and people are full of double-standards like that. Looking back on early Simpsons, it's incredibly tame, and is actually more about UPHOLDING the family unit than anything. They were the most "realistic" family on TV, they just weren't the kind of family you traditionally saw in cartoon shows. The closest analogue was the Bundys on Married... With Children, and THAT show received a ton of moral outrage during its first two Seasons, too. People REALLY hated the Fox Network in 1989-1991. Between The Simpsons and Married... With Children they were gonna completely destroy family values and create a nation of idiots. Or so we were led to believe, in spite of all evidence.

Thankfully it all went away super-fast. My wife's only a year younger than me but she had no idea any of that stuff had happened, either. It came and went in a flash but it was wacky for a minute.

[Prowler]

I guess. TV used to be the most important thing to us back then. Nowadays it's the Internet in general and phones. Rarely do I tunr in the TV to watch something nowadays. And when I do it's to watch a live football match in the Champions League, the Euro or the World Cup.

I remember there being discussions about kids watching too much television. When I was 8 I got some flack from my family for watching TV all day long. And I wasn't even watching improper stuff. I was simply watching Cartoon Network. There was a day where CN aired a 24 hour marathon of Tom and Jerry episodes during summer. I basically spent the whole afternoon watching it. My mother and my brother eventually told me to stop because watching too much TV was bad for my health or something.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

There's nothing offensive or improper about The Simpsons tbh. There are no bad words or extreme violence in it or anything. Just some things that fly over your head when you're a kid. But I was always entertained by it. No parent was against their kids watching The Simpsons.

Definitely not true. My mom didn't like us watching it. My dad was fine with it. Bill Cosby thought Bart was a bad role model for children.

[Coola Yagami]

I mean back in the day 'ass' was one of the bad words not allowed on TV and yet here we had a cartoon kid character Bart saying it on prime time.

Yeah those were the days.

If you want to see a comparison, watch the Simpsons/Family Guy crossover. Family Guy is so damn edgey and crap it makes the Simpsons look downright wholesome by comparison.

Stuff like Bart being just a mischievous prankster while Stewie is making rape references and actually tried to kill all of Bart's enemies.

[Andrew NDB]

Someone brought up the dark Sideshow Bob stuff. Yeah. As a kid -- and keep in mind I was a kid freely allowed to watch, say, the Chucky movies or anything R in theaters -- the Sideshow Bob stuff really struck me and seemed to strike a lot of other kids I knew as kind of a "holy sh**." Thing. Here was a cartoon that really had an edge to it, with real risks suddenly. Coated in humor and this or that, but it felt like a huge game changer.

Now? It's nothing. 3 seconds of Rick and Morty would trump all of that stuff in terms of "risque" or pretty much anything else. But at the time, whoa. That was brand new.

[Leo656]

Definitely not true. My mom didn't like us watching it. My dad was fine with it. Bill Cosby thought Bart was a bad role model for children.

Keep in mind, if it hadn't been stated before, Prowler's a few years younger than I am. He would have been too young to have experienced the anti-Simpsons hysteria. My wife is only one year younger than me, and she watched the show from the beginning but she completely missed all of the people being mad at it.

It was definitely a thing, but it came and went pretty fast and history doesn't really spend a lot of time on discussing the brief period where the show was "controversial". Most discussion about the history of the show only focuses on how it was an overnight sensation and changed TV forever and all that. They don't speak much of the year or so when Bart Simpson was every parent and teacher's worst enemy. Anyone who didn't see it up close as it was happening could be forgiven for not even knowing about it.

Especially since less than three years later, Beavis & Butt-Head came out and made The Simpsons seem positively quaint. That REALLY made parents and teachers feel foolish for ever being so uptight about The Simpsons of all things. They thought it was bad that suddenly kids were saying "damn" and "hell" because of Bart... and then they had to worry about their kids calling each other "butt-munch" and "dingleberry" and going around lighting fires.

If there was still any lingering "heat" on The Simpsons by 1993 among parents, teachers and churches... Beavis & Butt-Head pretty much put it all to bed immediately. But most people were done being mad at The Simpsons by then, anyway.

[Wildcat]

I mentioned the Sideshow Bob episodes.

Anyway what I meant by cute is I think things became more lighthearted compared to the more straightforward satire of the older seasons.

I certainly do not see how it became mean-spirited. The Family Guy crossover proved it’s not. Regardless it’s apparent that all the characters operate as friends or close acquaintances now even if they’re rivals in a given situation.

The future episodes and Marge and Homer’s marriage problems are not about them being miserable they’re just plot points that are recycled a lot because it’s been on so long.

Being a loving family is still very much intact. Only people who consistently watch will know. The most recent Valentine’s Day episode is a good example. The kids think they’re in a rut and tell them to take a trip but neither actually wants to go. They do and get stuck in the forest. It’s a very sweet episode.

I could list others but again only people who consistently watch it will get this.

About the art/animation, improving it should not be considered bad. I’m not talking about being hand drawn specifically. Overall everything is more vibrant and detailed which just looks better. The characters are not too static either. There is more than enough movement. It’s not anime (nothing against anime).

The old hand drawn quirks and such are fine but this goes back to people glorifying something old because it was “back then”.

If the art/animation was as clean in the 90s it would have been praised. It’s not like old fashioned animation should be the standard. Then what’s the point of progressing any media? There’s nothing wrong with liking vintage/retro stuff. We all do but that’s not the point.

I’m not saying everyone should still like the show. It’s definitely changed some over the years and some ideas are not as creative as they used to be.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

No offense Wildcat but I feel like you're too loose with properties you love so much.

The Simpsons definitely dropped in quality from animation to writing to storytelling. I don't feel the show has much going for it anymore in terms of all three of what I mention and that's just what happens when it goes on for so long.

[Coola Yagami]

Keep in mind, if it hadn't been stated before, Prowler's a few years younger than I am. He would have been too young to have experienced the anti-Simpsons hysteria. My wife is only one year younger than me, and she watched the show from the beginning but she completely missed all of the people being mad at it.

It was definitely a thing, but it came and went pretty fast and history doesn't really spend a lot of time on discussing the brief period where the show was "controversial". Most discussion about the history of the show only focuses on how it was an overnight sensation and changed TV forever and all that. They don't speak much of the year or so when Bart Simpson was every parent and teacher's worst enemy. Anyone who didn't see it up close as it was happening could be forgiven for not even knowing about it.

Especially since less than three years later, Beavis & Butt-Head came out and made The Simpsons seem positively quaint. That REALLY made parents and teachers feel foolish for ever being so uptight about The Simpsons of all things. They thought it was bad that suddenly kids were saying "damn" and "hell" because of Bart... and then they had to worry about their kids calling each other "butt-munch" and "dingleberry" and going around lighting fires.

If there was still any lingering "heat" on The Simpsons by 1993 among parents, teachers and churches... Beavis & Butt-Head pretty much put it all to bed immediately. But most people were done being mad at The Simpsons by then, anyway.

I remember an article or two complaining about Bart being an underachiever and proud or it, and the hell and damn and whatnot. I think the most dramatic example I personally experienced was the school banning people from wearing Bart Simpson shirts for a while.

[Wildcat]

No offense Wildcat but I feel like you're too loose with properties you love so much.

The Simpsons definitely dropped in quality from animation to writing to storytelling. I don't feel the show has much going for it anymore in terms of all three of what I mention and that's just what happens when it goes on for so long.None taken. I do think the writing could use some updating cause every so often there’s episodes I just find boring.

Officially aging the characters would give it some depth and open up more storylines. I think that would really spark it up again.

About t-shirts. I wore a shirt to school once and my art teacher mentioned they didn’t allow them but it was ok because it was just Bart posing by himself.

I found it strange because the staff never brought up anything about The Simpsons being banned and I had worn it the entire day. Art was at the end and my main teacher never said a thing.

I had another shirt with Homer and apparently it was also ok since nobody brought it up either. Unless it was just my art teacher that didn’t like them.

[Leo656]

I ending up having two T-shirts and a sweatshirt that I wore to school a lot, but that was right after everything died down. By then, a teacher would sigh and be like, "You kids and your Bart Simpson" but they wouldn't raise a fuss. Anymore.

But in like 1990, kids on the playground would be wearing it under their sweatshirt and be like "Psst! C'mere!" and they'd pull up their sweatshirt and show you their Bart Simpson T-shirt as if they were smuggling Playboys or something. :lol: That's how 7-year olds "rebel".

And yeah, the "Underachiever and Proud of It" shirts were almost as big a fuss as the "I'm Bart Simpson, Who The Hell Are You?" shirts. Now, that one, I could kinda see, because technically "hell" still counted as profanity back then and I could understand that not being allowed in school. But they had to literally sit us down and explain to us why the "Underachiever" shirts were forbidden; "Because no one should ever want to be an 'underachiever', and we're about pushing you kids to be over-achievers, if anything. We are not trying to create a culture of failure, that's nothing to be 'proud' of."

It was still dumb, but I kinda understood the point. Especially because even though the general student population was merely average, our Talented & Gifted program was ranked the highest in the state by test scores, so I guess they were really trying to keep out any sort of "negative" influence or attitude.

And then one day it all just stopped and nobody cared anymore at all. Maybe some of the grown-ups actually sat and watched some episodes over Summer vacation and realized it wasn't actually "bad", I don't know.

[ZariusTwo]

There had been cartoons for adults before such as The Flinstones and Betty Boop, but they were nothing like The Simpsons.

In fairness to The Flintstones, they did eventually grow characters like Pebbles and Bam Bam up. Those eras aren't particularly well remembered or reran at all, but they at least made the effort to change and evolve, before ultimately regressing to more 'iconic' status.

[AquaParade]

We should maybe all migrate to a Simpsons forum for a while.

[Coola Yagami]

I ending up having two T-shirts and a sweatshirt that I wore to school a lot, but that was right after everything died down. By then, a teacher would sigh and be like, "You kids and your Bart Simpson" but they wouldn't raise a fuss. Anymore.

But in like 1990, kids on the playground would be wearing it under their sweatshirt and be like "Psst! C'mere!" and they'd pull up their sweatshirt and show you their Bart Simpson T-shirt as if they were smuggling Playboys or something. :lol: That's how 7-year olds "rebel".

And yeah, the "Underachiever and Proud of It" shirts were almost as big a fuss as the "I'm Bart Simpson, Who The Hell Are You?" shirts. Now, that one, I could kinda see, because technically "hell" still counted as profanity back then and I could understand that not being allowed in school. But they had to literally sit us down and explain to us why the "Underachiever" shirts were forbidden; "Because no one should ever want to be an 'underachiever', and we're about pushing you kids to be over-achievers, if anything. We are not trying to create a culture of failure, that's nothing to be 'proud' of."

It was still dumb, but I kinda understood the point. Especially because even though the general student population was merely average, our Talented & Gifted program was ranked the highest in the state by test scores, so I guess they were really trying to keep out any sort of "negative" influence or attitude.

And the one day it all just stopped and nobody cared anymore at all. Maybe some of the grown-ups actually sat and watched some episodes over Summer vacation and realized it wasn't actually "bad", I don't know.

Lucky. I never had a Simpsons shirt til second hand stores finally started carrying them.

I do remember this odd trend of 'black versions' of the Simpsons on knockoff shirts. I remember back in the day there were people selling these shirts from the trunk of their cars. Stuff like black Simpsons, or Homer and even Fred Flinstone getting high and whatnot. I still remember the one of a stoned Fred Flinstone saying 'Yabba-Dabb-Doobie'. And occasionally on the bus or whatever I would run into people wearing the black Simpsons shirts.

Maybe it was a Chicago thing. We didn't have the internet back then so I had no idea of knowing if other cities were doing the same thing.

[superstaff]

I remember the anti-Simpsons hysteria. My school banned Simpsons memorabilia from being allowed on-site. And my mom was one of those mothers that banned The Simpsons in my house. Other things she banned me from watching during my childhood: TMNT (yep, lol), Power Rangers, playing video games, Batman, and so on. All of which had to indulge in in secret as a kid, teen, and even as an adult. She still makes snide comments that I better not be wasting my time watching those 'nasty cartoons' and playing those 'evil, violent video games'. Ah, the joys of having an overly religious mother...

[Leo656]

In fairness to The Flintstones, they did eventually grow characters like Pebbles and Bam Bam up. Those eras aren't particularly well remembered or reran at all

Oh, I most definitely have fond memories of Grown-Up Pebbles. Mrowrrrr. :trazz:

Their band was terrible.

Ah, the joys of having an overly religious mother...

Religion just does SO much good in this world. We definitely shouldn't force people to realize it's all fake so that we can all get on with our lives, no sir. Stuff's fine. Everything's awesome the way it is.

[superstaff]

Religion just does SO much good in this world. We definitely shouldn't force people to realize it's all fake so that we can all get on with our lives, no sir. Stuff's fine. Everything's awesome the way it is.

There's nice religious people out there. They use the bible as a guideline, not as an instructional manual. Or they don't care for the bible, and just have a special bond with God.

I used to go to this nice little Catholic church a few years back. I'm Agnostic, but the atmosphere was nice, the people were generally nice (and also kept to themselves instead of getting up in my business), and it was cathartic to go somewhere I felt comfortable for religious discourse because I do find religion...interesting. I moved from that area, so I never went back after that.

On the flip side, I've been to a lot of awful churches, many of them Christian, that were the opposite of the church I described above.

[Leo656]

I knowwww, but the ratio is like 1 in a million Nice People to Complete Assholes and thus I'm just not sure it's worth it.

[Andrew NDB]

Eh. I'm an agnostic/atheist, but I'd way rather have a religious neighbor than any of these whackjobs high on the ideology of the left. A thousand times over. Getting rid of religion is great but nobody was prepared for what would take its place.

[superstaff]

I dunno. I've met people from both sides. I've met Atheists who would gladly give you their shirt off their back, and Religious who would throw you under a bus. I've known nice people from the left and right, and....the worst kinds of people as well.

And some people just change. They started off as amazing, interesting, kind people...and then they changed. My ex-boyfriend from high school was like that. Loved TMNT, anime, games (had the biggest gaming collection I've ever seen to this day). We were super close, and would tell each other everything. We broke up in 2004, fyi. But I looked him up in, like, 2016 or so via Facebook. So...he became a she, was now a Communist (back in high school, we used to discuss how bad Cuba was due to Communism since we were both of Cuban descent), had a pride and trans flag on his (er, her...) social media plus pronouns, aligned with Anita Sarkeesian on how bad Peach and Zelda were (I was so wtf on that since we used to love those characters), and.............so on.

That guy I dated and was best friends with was now gone. Like, completely gone. He might as well be dead and buried, and I know that sounds very morbid, but. Yeah. This is what happens when people's lives revolve around their politics. Also, for the record, I've seen the opposite where people become obsessed with religion/right wing politics as well. I think...many people are just prone to obsession and fanaticism so they gravitate towards different outlets to let it loose, so to speak. It seems to happen most with stuff like religion, politics, and the like. On a smaller scale, some people become obsessed with specific stuff like Star Trek.

[ZariusTwo]

I'm not hardcore fire and brimstone religious, but I believe in God and a divine plan, all the unrest of the world makes sense to me because of it. You just have to take delicate steps and make sure the people in your life are well loved and looked after, and how you measure up to them and other people. Sometimes you will stumble, fall, but you and others you trust will pick yourself up again.

...And I totally cribbed Snyder and Nolan for that. I'm a hack.

[Andrew NDB]

I dunno. I've met people from both sides. I've met Atheists who would gladly give you their shirt off their back, and Religious who would throw you under a bus. I've known nice people from the left and right, and....the worst kinds of people as well.

There's definitely religious whackjobs that are bothersome but the actual people radicalized on the far left... about 10 out of 10 of them are worse than those guys, that I've seen. Like, I can agree to disagree that there's a God or that the Bible is real or go "Yeah, yeah" to urgings to go to church and we can smile and get on with life vs. "You're a nazi bigot and a racist if your kindergartner child isn't taught about drag queens and my wife's boyfriend in the classroom!" Because now I'm actively wanting to punch said person in the face.

And some people just change. They started off as amazing, interesting, kind people...and then they changed. My ex-boyfriend from high school was like that. Loved TMNT, anime, games (had the biggest gaming collection I've ever seen to this day). We were super close, and would tell each other everything. We broke up in 2004, fyi. But I looked him up in, like, 2016 or so via Facebook. So...he became a she, was now a Communist (back in high school, we used to discuss how bad Cuba was due to Communism since we were both of Cuban descent), had a pride and trans flag on his (er, her...) social media plus pronouns, aligned with Anita Sarkeesian on how bad Peach and Zelda were (I was so wtf on that since we used to love those characters), and.............so on.

Jesus! What did you do to that guy? Poor bastard! :D

That guy I dated and was best friends with was now gone. Like, completely gone. He might as well be dead and buried, and I know that sounds very morbid, but. Yeah. This is what happens when people's lives revolve around their politics. Also, for the record, I've seen the opposite where people become obsessed with religion/right wing politics as well. I think...many people are just prone to obsession and fanaticism so they gravitate towards different outlets to let it loose, so to speak. It seems to happen most with stuff like religion, politics, and the like. On a smaller scale, some people become obsessed with specific stuff like Star Trek.

I wouldn't call myself obsessed with politics. I didn't even care about politics until war was basically declared on the arts by the left. Seemingly overnight, all the things that I love most became used as weapons and tools to suit their sick agenda to indoctrinate children to their cause ("salty manbaby tears" being an added bonus).

[superstaff]

Jesus! What did you do to that guy? Poor bastard! :D

It was probably me beating him in Super Smash Bros Melee, lol

[Andrew NDB]

It was probably me beating him in Super Smash Bros Melee, lol

To be fair, "TMNT fandom" (you mentioned he was a fan) and "mental health" don't really go hand in hand in most circles. Then you went and broke his her heart, on top of that. :lol:

[Leo656]

To be fair, "TMNT fandom" (you mentioned he was a fan) and "mental health" don't really go hand in hand in most circles.

Nailed it.

Not to be an Absolute Dick but it's like, you go on the He-Man forum and it's mostly Very Wealthy People (or at least well-off) who have a healthy family life and a good job, enough money to own a large house and have entire rooms in said house dedicated to their insanely-large action figure collections. Doctors and lawyers and accountants and so on. There's a ton of "arrested development" and they tend to skew pretty Left more often than not, and they tend to not have very deep critical thinking when it comes to entertainment (lots of "Like Everything or you're a big meanie")... but they are all overwhelmingly "normal" people. They speak and present well, and a lot of them have a lot of money.

And then there's This Place, where you've got one or two "Normal People" and a whole ton of TigerClaws. More autists than not, more 40-year old virgins than not, more incels than not, more people who'll never have a job that pays more than thirty grand a year than not, more people whose only "friends" are on their computer screen than not.

I can't help but notice that the most "hardcore" TMNT fans are not very well-adjusted people. I know that sounds awful, but I can only Observe & Report.

It's like a cartoon show about outcasts and misfits... predominantly attracted an audience of outcasts & misfits, and they stayed that way forever instead of Growing Up. Maybe some of them physically/mentally couldn't or can't. I empathize. But it's still rather tragic on its face.

I can't stand a lot of people in any "fandom", I just know which group of nerds I'd rather actually sit and have a beer with, is all.

I know, I'm a dick.

I'm not hardcore fire and brimstone religious, but I believe in God and a divine plan, all the unrest of the world makes sense to me because of it.

Not to me! All I hear is, "All the suffering and misery in the world is on purpose," and to me that is a TERRIBLE "plan." Nah, I can't vote for that.

Any God who wants everyone miserable all the time and does nothing to mitigate the suffering even though it's supposedly in their power to do so... I definitely want nothing to do with That Guy. Not in this life or the next.

Pretty sure the whole reason God put me on a path to Hell is that if I ever made it to Heaven I'd absolutely try and get my hands around his neck. Because he's got a lot to answer for, in my opinion.

No eternal reward could ever be worth the sh*t people go through. None. It's unthinkable.

But that's just the way I see it.

[Andrew NDB]

Gun to my head, if I was asked "who are the top two TMNT fans in the fandom?" I think I would have to come up with two names. A "King" and "Queen" of the fandom, as it were. Both of them are long gone, mentally. Their lives in literal and obvious ruin.

Which isn't to say that's all fans. It's not. But maybe it's a benchmark/testament to where "I want to be a TMNT superfan of all things TMNT!" ends up, sooner or later.

[ZariusTwo]

No eternal reward could ever be worth the sh*t people go through. None. It's unthinkable.

Well if the J man could go through his own hell in the prime of his presence on Earth, that was to demonstrate everyone will face similar challenges, that's what creates the people that pass into legend.

I don't think there's necessarily a 'hell' not nowadays, I'm big on forgiveness and I reckon whatever passes for God in spirit is too. I think your soul, if troubled, is simply reincarnated, put back on Earth with the hopes of a better experience, if you so choose to. Some souls may not choose to do this and drift elsewhere, born into new experiences in other dimensions/universes, to experience different manner of civilisation and occupations, but I don't think they suffer eternally for making that choice

[Leo656]

Whatever gets people through the day, I guess.

For me, it's Hot Chicks With Nice Boobs. But I guess some people need other stuff.

[ZariusTwo]

For me, it's Hot Chicks With Nice Boobs

That follows you everywhere too:)

[Leo656]

Wish I could follow them everywhere but then you get slapped with a restraining order. :lol:

[CyberCubed]

Seasons 1-9 are the original run, but Seasons 10, and select eps of Seasons 11-15 are ok too. But I wouldn't recommend any full season after 9.

[AquaParade]

The Lego episode from later on is pretty good.

[Prowler]

What season was the episode Maude died? 11?

I think that might have been the point where I thought things were starting to get silly.

I didn't care about Maude or anything, but the idea of killing her off just seemed bizarre to me. That's when Flanders started to go crazy. Before that he was just the friendly and polite Simpsons neighbour who just happened to be a little too religious for my taste. I believe the term Flanderization was born around that time.

After Maude died, you had Homer and Flanders go to Vegas and hang out with hookers. That's not something I've ever expected Flanders to do :lol

There's also a time where Flanders falls in love with another woman but keeps thinking of Maude because he can't move on from her. That was a strange episode too.

If you're going to do something as risky as killing off a side character then you need a good payoff to justify that decision. Maude dying did not make Flanders a better character at all. So what exactly did her death contribute to the show?

[Leo656]

Fox saved a tiny bit of money by not having to fly her voice actor across the country to record her lines. That was the only reason they did it. She wanted a raise to cover her travel expenses, they refused, and rather than compromise they just killed off her character. Which was stupid because they eventually reached an agreement for more money anyway, but they obviously couldn't un-kill Maude, which is why she showed up more and more often as a ghost or in flashback episodes as years went on.

One of the pettiest things to ever happen in the history of television, without question.

[Prowler]

Fox saved a tiny bit of money by not having to fly her voice actor across the country to record her lines. That was the only reason they did it. She wanted a raise to cover her travel expenses, they refused, and rather than compromise they just killed off her character. Which was stupid because they eventually reached an agreement for more money anyway, but they obviously couldn't un-kill Maude, which is why she showed up more and more often as a ghost or in flashback episodes as years went on.

One of the pettiest things to ever happen in the history of television, without question.

...I can't believe that's what really happened. That's just ridiculous. They should have handled the situation and been better at negotiating an agreement. I guess it is no wonder the series has become trash in the current century.

Didn't Family Guy kill Brian a few years ago? But he came back to life again shortly afterwards?

[superstaff]

...I can't believe that's what really happened. That's just ridiculous. They should have handled the situation and been better at negotiating an agreement. I guess it is no wonder the series has become trash in the current century.

It's a hint of what's to come, if you ask me. The writing staff seems pretty petty nowadays, at least when they're not bending the knee.

Didn't Family Guy kill Brian a few years ago? But he came back to life again shortly afterwards?

Yeah, though that seemed to be more of a joke since he was revived literally two episodes later. It was pretty pointless to me.

[AquaParade]

Fox saved a tiny bit of money by not having to fly her voice actor across the country to record her lines. That was the only reason they did it. She wanted a raise to cover her travel expenses, they refused, and rather than compromise they just killed off her character. Which was stupid because they eventually reached an agreement for more money anyway, but they obviously couldn't un-kill Maude, which is why she showed up more and more often as a ghost or in flashback episodes as years went on.

One of the pettiest things to ever happen in the history of television, without question.

Great piece of trivia. Didn’t know.

I didn’t like how they put that death on Homer. For some reason, “Homer’s Enemy” doesn’t bother me, but that episode does.

I mean, I don’t even think the incident was really Homer’s fault. It’s obviously a safety issue, which should be the arena’s responsibility, imo. But the show just decides it’s funnier to have Homer be “responsible” for her death, which doesn’t serve the character well.

[superstaff]

I mean, I don’t even think the incident was really Homer’s fault. It’s obviously a safety issue, which should be the arena’s responsibility, imo. But the show just decides it’s funnier to have Homer be “responsible” for her death, which doesn’t serve the character well.

You said it yourself. They thought it'd be funnier. Because Homer is a moron, so him messing up and killing someone (in their minds) is hilarious, particularly a 'religious nut' like Maude.

It's incredibly mean-spirited, both the feud between the VA and the staff, and the episode itself. It's shock value schlock.

[Coola Yagami]

You said it yourself. They thought it'd be funnier. Because Homer is a moron, so him messing up and killing someone (in their minds) is hilarious, particularly a 'religious nut' like Maude.

It's incredibly mean-spirited, both the feud between the VA and the staff, and the episode itself. It's shock value schlock.

Didn't they add insult to injury by saying Homer's car blocked the ambulance from coming in to possibly resuscitate Maude?

[cammy85]

Didn't they add insult to injury by saying Homer's car blocked the ambulance from coming in to possibly resuscitate Maude?

That didn't make any sense since Dr. Hibbert pronounced her dead on the spot. That would be a Dr. Nick level mistake if they actually could resuscitate her.

[Prowler]

Yep Homer not feeling guilty about indirectly being somewhat responsible for Maude dying never sat too well with me. I guess that's when he began turning into Peter Griffin.

[Leo656]

I was going from memory, so I Googled and found a ScreenRant article that explains it rather succinctly:
https://screenrant.com/simpsons-maude-flanders-killed-reason/

Maggie Roswell had been part of the voice cast of The Simpsons since season 1, but in 1994 she moved from Los Angeles to Denver with her family. Because of this, Roswell had to travel to Los Angeles twice a week to record her lines for the show (she voiced Maude, Helen Lovejoy, Miss Hoover, and Luann Van Houten), which eventually became an expensive obstacle. Roswell requested a pay raise in 1999, but Fox refused and she quit the show. As a result, Fox wrote Maude Flanders out, and Marcia Mitzman Gaven was hired as replacement.

[superstaff]

I was going from memory, so I Googled and found a ScreenRant article that explains it rather succinctly:
https://screenrant.com/simpsons-maude-flanders-killed-reason/

How dare she put her FAMILY before the show!? The answer isn't to either grant her the wage demands or gracefully replace her. Nope. Best to be petty, and send a 'message' by killing her character off. Disgusting stuff.

[Leo656]

Especially since the whole cast ended up getting raises multiple times since then, and eventually she did too which is why they later had her come back.

The whole thing was just so damned petty and stupid, and showed a tremendous lack of foresight on the part of Fox. But then, the Simpsons creative staff have made "lack of foresight" kind of their trademark over the years, since they've repeatedly and constantly done things they somehow didn't expect people to hate, and then act oblivious when people end up hating said things.

They've just been spinning their wheels for the longest time, existing just to exist. Sad.

[Prowler]

It does seem like The Simpsons didn't deal well with the transition to the 21st century. Changes in writing staff didn't help of course but I wonder if the problem isn't a bit deeper and more complex than that. I mean, Matt Groening is the creator. He must have some say in the direction of the series still or did so until sometime ago? He could have pulled the plug on it several years ago. Does he really not mind how far his series has fallen? Did creating Futurama make him pay less attention to the Simpsons?

But yeah even though they're still around, it's easy to forget The Simpsons are still airing to this day. The show has become pretty much irrelevant in the last 15 years or so. The movie should have been its swan song.

In the last several years I've seen people and the media discussing about the latest Family Guy and South Park episodes, but The Simpsons? Nope. The very last Simpsons episode to draw some attention must have been the Lady Gaga one. And it didn't get any positive feedback afaik.

TV shows, whether they're live action or cartoon series, should never go on for over 3 decades. The only ones that should last that long are some long running anime series such as One Piece which are adaptations from a manga anyway.

Other than that, the only series that can handle hundreds or thousands of episodes are those who are built around having rotating casts of characters and settings every 2 years or so.

The Simpsons fits neither of the above. It's an episodic comedy series. Eventually people run out of good jokes and stories to tell. And that's when the quality begins to decline.

[member_removed]

The really stoopid thing was eventually Fox agreed to let her work from Denver. She'd record her lines in a local studio. She was back on the show by 2002.

I don't know why they couldn't come to this agreement in 1999.

[superstaff]

The really stoopid thing was eventually Fox agreed to let her work from Denver. She'd record her lines in a local studio. She was back on the show by 2002.

I don't know why they couldn't come to this agreement in 1999.

The answer is that there's a lot of people out there who are not sensible and civil. If you ruffle their feathers in any way, they'll want to cut your throat in retaliation. This seems to be the case with the studio/staff during this incident, and many others over the years.

[Prowler]

What was even the first episode to do the whole celebrity guest thing wrong?

Bret Hart was in a Simpsons episode back in the early 90s and no one has a problem with such episode. Leonard Nimoy was in the monorail episode too and that one is a classic.

The first instance I can think of is that episode where Lisa becomes a vegetarian and has a conversation with Paul McCartney and his wife.

The Simpsons used to parody and make fun of celebrities. They'd even parody their characters. McBain is clearly based on Schwarzenegger while Tatum is based on Mike Tyson.

But, after a certain point, celebrity guests just took the focal point of episodes and the show just began kissing their asses.

[Leo656]

I think when the entire POINT of the cameos became "celebrity ass-kissing" is when people ran out of patience with it.

I mean, the classic episodes had the stuff with the Ramones, Aerosmith, the softball episode with all those MLB stars... really clever and well-executed stuff. There were tons of really great celebrity cameos, including many episodes with several at once, like the Krusty one with Bette Midler, Johnny Carson, the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Luke Perry, Elizabeth Taylor... that was one stuffed episode, and comes very highly-regarded.

The newer stuff from like the mid-00s onward is just... pandering, ass-kissing nonsense. I mean, the Lady Gaga bullsh*t pretty much exemplifies the entire problem. It's not clever, it's not well-written, it's just "Look who we threw a truckload of cash at THIS week!" They don't put any thought or effort into it anymore.

[Coola Yagami]

What was even the first episode to do the whole celebrity guest thing wrong?

Bret Hart was in a Simpsons episode back in the early 90s and no one has a problem with such episode. Leonard Nimoy was in the monorail episode too and that one is a classic.

The first instance I can think of is that episode where Lisa becomes a vegetarian and has a conversation with Paul McCartney and his wife.

The Simpsons used to parody and make fun of celebrities. They'd even parody their characters. McBain is clearly based on Schwarzenegger while Tatum is based on Mike Tyson.

But, after a certain point, celebrity guests just took the focal point of episodes and the show just began kissing their asses.

Yeah, in those early examples, the celebs mostly voiced characters, but didn't portray themselves, and even if they did the episode wasn't mostly devoted to them.

There was a plot and the celeb would contribute to the plot or make a short cameo, but the entire plot wasn't just 'hey guys, so and so is here!'.

For example, the Flamin' Moe's episode was mostly about Homer making the drink and Moe making money off it without crediting Homer. Aerosmith appears in the third act and isn't the focal point of the entire episode.

The monorail episode was about that one dude ripping off the town and Homer getting to run it. Leonard Nimoy just randomly showed up around the third act as well and wasn't the focal point of the episode, he just happened to show up.

Even the Micheal Jackson episode dealt with Homer being sent to the loony bin and had the Lisa birthday subplot. I admit most of the episode about MJ but he wasn't even portraying himself. Same with Homer's brother being voiced by Danny DeVito, the episode was about Homer's brother not 'oh hey guys, what's Danny DeVito doing in Springfield????'

The Lady Gaga episode was strictly 'oh hey guys, Lady Gaga, AMIRITE? What? Why isn't Lisa excite about Lady Gaga, but Lisa, it's Lady Gaga'.

The earlier episodes could be called the Flamin' Moe's episode, Homer's brother episodes, the monorail episode, hell even the MJ impersonator episode, but the Gaga episode was quite literally just.... the Gaga episode.

[Prowler]

Yes, exactly. You guys nailed it.

The first celebrity focused episode that didn't sit well with me was the Mel Gibson one. It just wasn't entertaining. Felt like they were kissing his ass too much instead of making jokes about him.

Reminds me of WWE and their celebrity guest hosts from over a decade ago. Just very cringe desperate attempts at getting mainstream attention. Very different from Mike zTysons appearances in early 1998. That was a perfect use of a celebrity by WWE and didn't make the product look bad or desperate.

[Jester]

Tonight was again Lisa heavy...also sucked.

[AquaParade]

It’s sad that the voice actors are still around and being wasted on cruddy scripts. I have a hard time understanding why they can’t get the show back in shape with some better writers, or even writers from the golden age.

Btw, I’m fine with the sliding timescale, but it can feel really awkward for someone who is so ingrained in the early episodes. I watched the first episode of season 33, the other night, and it opened with Homer & Marge explaining “Y2K” to Bart and Lisa, while watching old home videos from 1999, wherein Homer and Marge were teenagers. Trippy.

[Leo656]

My guess would be, just general apathy on multiple fronts.

[Prowler]

There are two ways they could fix that. Either age the characters or simply stop doing flashback and time travelling episodes for good.

But an even better thing to do would be to have pulled the plug off over a decade ago.

And yes, changes in the writing staff ddid hurt the show's quality after 1996 or so, but that was nearly 30 years ago already. Couldn't they have found some good writers since then?

The problem might run deeper than that. Perhaps even Matt Groening himself no longer cares about The Simpsons other than the money it still brings him after all these years.

[Wildcat]

I agree this weeks episode about Krusty losing his franchise and Grandpa’s burger partner was not good. It was not Lisa focused though.

However last weeks episode was great. Where Marge and Bart bond over pranks and Homer tries to bond with Lisa over food. It was funny and endearing.

This is what I personally meant. I still enjoy the show overall but some episodes are way better or worse than others.

On a side note Disney has allowed jokes about them which is cool imo. There’s a modern episode from last year I think. They say Disney runs the government with fireworks spelling out Disney in the official font.

[Coola Yagami]

It's funny looking back but Simpsons was probably one of the first shows or at least animated shows to have the words hell, damn, crap/crappy on regular TV. Hell they even said bastard in the episode of Homer's brother.

Plus other concepts like beer, people getting drunk off actual alcohol, people going to church, people mooning people, strippers, etc. Even the concept of kids being bad troublemakers. Like Bart knows he's up to no good. People like Dennis the Menace were more naïve and purposely causing trouble, it just happened. Like you don't see kids talking back to their parents the way Bart mouths off to Homer. I mean he even calls him Homer and rarely calls him dad. That's lack of respect right there.

Idk I remember the Flintstones had cactus juice but I think it varied from being an expy of beer or soda or just juice depending on the episode. I don't remember the Jetsons having any type of alcohol equivalent.

[Jester]

Wow...this Sunday's episode was terrible. What a waste of Hugh Jackman. Always love rich Hollywood "elites" discussing the decline of the middle class. I'd kill to make over 6 million a year to do silly voices.

[Coola Yagami]

Wow...this Sunday's episode was terrible. What a waste of Hugh Jackman. Always love rich Hollywood "elites" discussing the decline of the middle class. I'd kill to make over 6 million a year to do silly voices.

What was the episode about.... or was it just one of those 'hey guys, it's Hugh Jackman!' type of episodes.

[Jester]

It was called Poorhouse Rock. Bart goes to work with Homer and thinks Homer has a cushy dream job, but a magic janitor (Jackman) and (of course) Lisa (as well as other guest Robert Reich) tell him he'll never have life as good as his boomer dad thanks to Reaganomics and the demise of the middle class.

So you know fun stuff...

[Wildcat]

Again I’ll have to agree this episode was terrible. I hate politics and that’s all it was about. Waste of a season finale.

The couch gag was cool. The slightly different art with everyone older.

[ZariusTwo]

The Homer/Marge one from a few weeks back should have been the season finale

[superstaff]

I watched the episode, Meat is Murder, tonight after randomly picking it on a...website.

My God, what a horrible...awful...worthless episode. I was actually a little surprised by just how awful the writing was. It lacked focus because it keep jumping between Krusty, Lisa, Abe Simpson, and the guest star characters, and the 'glue' that held them all together was very flimsy. All of the characters were detestable, and felt OOC, and...wow, the voices are very bad especially Marge. There were various political jokes in it that felt disgustingly on the nose. Look at the title of this episode, and that alone should give you an idea of what the political leaning for this one is. I could go into more detail tomorrow or something, but...yeah, it sucked.

[Prowler]

I watched the episode, Meat is Murder, tonight after randomly picking it on a...website.

My God, what a horrible...awful...worthless episode. I was actually a little surprised by just how awful the writing was. It lacked focus because it keep jumping between Krusty, Lisa, Abe Simpson, and the guest star characters, and the 'glue' that held them all together was very flimsy. All of the characters were detestable, and felt OOC, and...wow, the voices are very bad especially Marge. There were various political jokes in it that felt disgustingly on the nose. Look at the title of this episode, and that alone should give you an idea of what the political leaning for this one is. I could go into more detail tomorrow or something, but...yeah, it sucked.
Lisa has been a vegatwrian since the 90s already. Wasn't the episode where the became one enough already for the audience to get the point? Why make another one? They're afraid the audience forgot Lisa is vegetarian?

[superstaff]

Lisa has been a vegatwrian since the 90s already. Wasn't the episode where the became one enough already for the audience to get the point? Why make another one? They're afraid the audience forgot Lisa is vegetarian?

The episode isn't about Lisa being a vegetarian/vegan. It factors into the 'plot' a little, though it's not about that. I'll give you a summary if you want, it's very dumb and muddled.

[Prowler]

It's kinda sad what Lisa has become.

People forget that Lisa used to be a pretty good character in the classic seasons. She was clearly the smarter Simpson family member and you could tell she didn't really fit in with the family at times. A lot of us feel like we don't have much in common with the rest of our family. So Lisa was relatable in that sense.

Lisa was mostly the girl who had good grades and liked to play the saxophone and had a strong moral compass. She still had her silly and funny moments.

But eventually she just became more and more preachy and eventually turned into a very in your face activist.

I liked the episode where she cheated on a test. That was something new and explored a side of Lisa we hadn't seen before. Also liked the episode Ehre she met Bleeding Gums.

Lisa the Vegetarian not really. And I also didn't like that episode where she becomes Nelson's girlfriend. It made zero sense for that to happen and felt like a really bad "good girls like bad boys" cliché.

[superstaff]

I actually loved the Lisa/Nelson episode. I actually really liked the idea of them together, much more than her with Milhouse which is what's implied to be who she's stuck with in the future. Like, literally stuck with since she seems to be unhappy in her marriage in those 'future episodes'. Meh.

Though you're right about old school Lisa, who was a likable character.

In the episode I watched last night, she tries to manipulate her super senile grandpa in order to execute an agenda. God, that episode did no favors to anyone involved from Lisa to Abraham to Krusty to the guest star people. Terrible stuff.

[Prowler]

I actually loved the Lisa/Nelson episode. I actually really liked the idea of them together, much more than her with Milhouse which is what's implied to be who she's stuck with in the future. Like, literally stuck with since she seems to be unhappy in her marriage in those 'future episodes'. Meh.

Though you're right about old school Lisa, who was a likable character.

In the episode I watched last night, she tries to manipulate her super senile grandpa in order to execute an agenda. God, that episode did no favors to anyone involved from Lisa to Abraham to Krusty to the guest star people. Terrible stuff.
I've never cared much about Lisa and Milhouse either. It's always been obvious to me that it was. A pretty one-sided attraction. I didn't know it eventually became canon that Lisa ends up with him in the future.

I like the idea of Lisa becoming the future president of the United States.

[Leo656]

It does send a pretty bad message to anyone determined to read too much into things, the way Lisa is shown to be "destined" to (unhappily) wind up with Milhouse.

"Just wait her out, guys. 'No' turns into 'Yes' eventually, especially when their eggs start drying up and they realize they're running out of options!"

I mean, yeah, no, not everything has "a moral". But even tongue-in-cheek, most things do at least have some kind of message or theme that they're trying to convey. And like it or not, that's the "message" of Future Lisa and Future Milhouse winding up together. "If she says no today, just hang in there, she'll change her mind." That's not automatically dangerous or damaging, but... it can be. Especially with the rise of "Incel Culture" and MRAs over the past few years.

It's just plain not a good look. I feel like the Nick TMNT cartoon danced too close to this with Don/April at times, as well.

[superstaff]

I mean. Feelings can change, and sometimes, the girl/guy you crush on can change their minds, and become interested.

However, of course, that's not always the case. The idea also shouldn't be that you drop everything, and wait for your crush to reciprocate. It's a 'if it happens, it happens' type deal.

[Prowler]

I didn't even think about it that way. More like, you'd think Milhouse would lose interest in Lisa after he finished 4th grade. When you're a kid, crushes don't last for long. So the idea that Milhouse still likes Lisa 20 years later and eventually marries her is just unrealistic. And it's not like it's a couple most people wanted to see become canon.

Dunno who'd be that patient anyway. I had this crush on a girl around a decade ago but I never got around to date her. No idea what she's up to nowadays nor do I care anymore. Such is life.

[superstaff]

Yeah, realistically he would lose interest in her eventually...unless he's a neurotic freak...which he is in the show. :lol:

[Prowler]

As for Nick TMNT...

I've only seen 4 episodes of it or so. I didn't like the idea of a romance between a mutant turtle and a human being. In fact, I feel like that's the prime reason they decided to make April a teenager of the same age as the Turtles. To turn her into a love interest of one of them. Which is something I am against. The FW series was the biggest cartoon at some point in the world and clearly April being over a decade older than Turtles didn't affect the series popularity.

[Coola Yagami]

As for Nick TMNT...

I've only seen 4 episodes of it or so. I didn't like the idea of a romance between a mutant turtle and a human being. In fact, I feel like that's the prime reason they decided to make April a teenager of the same age as the Turtles. To turn her into a love interest of one of them. Which is something I am against. The FW series was the biggest cartoon at some point in the world and clearly April being over a decade older than Turtles didn't affect the series popularity.

I kinda figure other than the romance stuff, they also wanted a fifth female character running alongside the turtles on their missions without just going full-blown Venus. It was kind of annoying because other than April, this made Casey and even Karai into teens to keep all in the same general age.

I guess an adult April could have been a fighter too but it woulda been weird seeing an adult run around with teenagers, let alone be taking orders from Leo and whatnot.

I guess in that respect Rise did it better, making April more or less of an sequel from the start. 2012 April still had to go from 'typical average girl that doesn't even lift' to slowly progress into 'butt-kicking ninja girl with powers' while Rise April was kicking ass day one.

Also if they wanted some girl character to tag along so badly I'm assuming they could have just made up some new character, but the fanbase probably wouldn't like that so the studio most likely went with 'it just has to be April' even if she's April in name only.

[ZariusTwo]

I feel like the writers have wanted to push Lisa with Ralph Wiggum for years but they were always being held back. Gail Simone proposed a Lisa spin-off comic for Bongo where she and Ralph solved mysteries together but it was turned down, I feel like Simone would have probably teased some things in the book had that happened.

I'm a big fan of Lisa and Ralph together, I think it largely stems from the idea all Simpsons women marry idiots. Lisa's even dreamt that she and Ralph marry and have kids, so she probably does secretly love him.

[Leo656]

Boy, that's a life. Wiping that guy's ass for him until he walks into moving traffic one day.

Objectively, girls like Lisa either hook up with some beta-male soyboy who likes being bossed around OR they end up old spinsters. Aside from single-episode one-off characters who were never seen again, there are no "soyboy" characters on the show for her to be "shipped" with and so she's gonna die alone. Because she's a shrill, unlikeable know-it-all, and no man who can get an erection without crying would ever marry someone like her in the first place.

Milhouse really is the most "realistic" option, other than her just ending up with nobody, which is actually what I think would happen. But Milhouse is the perfect kind of doormat for someone like Lisa. It actually is very believable that she'd suddenly settle for him, once she realized that he was the only one who'd ever put up with all of her bullsh*t.

Now that I'm at that age where most everyone in my circle is married (and most of those people divorced and in some cases re-married), the realities of Who ends up with Who and Why are becoming impossible to ignore.

We all got mad at our parents trying to control our love lives, preaching to us about how "That'll never work" and "People like This don't work with people like That", but... well, now that I'm 40-ish I totally get it. They knew what we didn't, yet. Relationships aren't totally a sterile science, but... eh, kinda.

[Cowabung-Gal]

It’s sad that the voice actors are still around and being wasted on cruddy scripts. I have a hard time understanding why they can’t get the show back in shape with some better writers, or even writers from the golden age.

The actors stay because they are being paid enough money, and they may even feel a connection to the characters that they play. It’s kind of like having a toxic relationship: you know it would be wise to leave, but you stay because you care too much. Either way, yeah, their talents are being wasted.

A lot of writers from the golden age have unfortunately become woke or have lost their steam, and those who haven’t become woke are being screwed by Hollywood because of, y’know, political bias.

[ZariusTwo]

The latest episode, the very meta "Lisa The Boy Scout" poked fun at the show's declining quality over the years, offering a slew of official examples as well as ones created exclusively for the episode (some of which are ideas I would not mind being canon, especially what they do to Martin), also love how they used the older animation styles and aspect ratios.

The way they addressed the 'predictions' thing was pretty lame.

[Prowler]

Clearly The Simpsons must still have a sizeable enough fanbase to keep on going after all these years. It's a brand name that everyone knows of. And I'm sure a lot of those fans are younger people who did not grow up watching The Simpsons during its golden age. Someone who's 22 nowadays was born in the year of 2000, remember. They probably first saw The Simpsons in 2007 or 2008.

The rest are probably die hard fans who just watch it out of habit and brand loyalty at this point.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Something that was brought to my attention when I was on the Simpsons Instagram page is that I watched a clip of Marge talking and her voice sounds terrible. Comments were mentioning this too. Julie Kavner has been doing the voice for over 30 years but how much longer can she continue? Would they be willing to replace her if she finally couldn't do the voice anymore? It gives me that feeling of Rugrats where Nancy Cartwright (Bart) took over for Chuckie Finster. Mind you, that was for a different reason but that's the feeling I'm getting right now. Marge's voice is not easy to pull off.

[cammy85]

Something that was brought to my attention when I was on the Simpsons Instagram page is that I watched a clip of Marge talking and her voice sounds terrible. Comments were mentioning this too. Julie Kavner has been doing the voice for over 30 years but how much longer can she continue? Would they be willing to replace her if she finally couldn't do the voice anymore? It gives me that feeling of Rugrats where Nancy Cartwright (Bart) took over for Chuckie Finster. Mind you, that was for a different reason but that's the feeling I'm getting right now. Marge's voice is not easy to pull off.

Interesting question!! Disney Plus is a few weeks behind and I noticed this season isn't as great as last year. But to the point... I noticed there have been episodes where certain family members are absent, more than ever. Like where only Bart appears, for example. Lisa was missing a few times, and Marge's appearances have been reduced overall. The latest D+ episode is the one with the pop sensation and Marge doesn't appear until much later. Now I really wonder hpw much longer the show will go on?

[CyberCubed]

Season 10 is the last full season I can watch. I do like some select episodes from Seasons 11-15 or so, but I wouldn't recommend entire seasons anymore.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

Interesting question!! Disney Plus is a few weeks behind and I noticed this season isn't as great as last year. But to the point... I noticed there have been episodes where certain family members are absent, more than ever. Like where only Bart appears, for example. Lisa was missing a few times, and Marge's appearances have been reduced overall. The latest D+ episode is the one with the pop sensation and Marge doesn't appear until much later. Now I really wonder hpw much longer the show will go on?

Have there been any where Homer was missing?

It would definitely help to reduce appearances of Patty and Selma since they have deeper voices. Otherwise it'll take a huge toll on Kavner's vocal cords. I don't know how much longer she can continue doing voices because Marge's voice is finally cracking.

I really do think they should do a Simpsons arcade sequel before the cast get too old to do the voices.

[Coola Yagami]

Something that was brought to my attention when I was on the Simpsons Instagram page is that I watched a clip of Marge talking and her voice sounds terrible. Comments were mentioning this too. Julie Kavner has been doing the voice for over 30 years but how much longer can she continue? Would they be willing to replace her if she finally couldn't do the voice anymore? It gives me that feeling of Rugrats where Nancy Cartwright (Bart) took over for Chuckie Finster. Mind you, that was for a different reason but that's the feeling I'm getting right now. Marge's voice is not easy to pull off.

Power of hindsight and all that. Had they known the series would be around for so many years and Julie would be stuck doing the same Marge, Patty, Selma voices for that long, they would have opted for a more normal sounding voice back then.
But honestly, as big as it was, who was expecting the Simpsons to go over the usual 3 or so seasons?

[CyberCubed]

Simpsons going on past 8-10 seasons was considered absurd even back then. And now we're 25 years after that

[Andrew NDB]

ZplHhgIeCuc

Apparently they're pledging to retire Homer choking Bart from the show now. Honestly, just cancel the show already. As if a dad choking a son was even "OK" in the 80s... it's a f***ing gag!

[Wildcat]

They’re not removing it. Google it. People just wanted something woke to complain about.

Funny that nobody brought up a lack of strangling before this. As it was pointed out it’s hardly done anymore. It just faded naturally like Bart’s prank phone calls.

[Barkworm]

ZplHhgIeCuc

Apparently they're pledging to retire Homer choking Bart from the show now. Honestly, just cancel the show already. As if a dad choking a son was even "OK" in the 80s... it's a f***ing gag!

Man, these youtube opinion videos… Honest question, how often do you feel just informed after watching one of those and not at least a little angry? Because I never watch any of them and I get angry just seeing the stupid thumbnail and the awful clickbait title. And that‘s all these pseudo-experts are trying to do - generate negativity.

[Coola Yagami]

Man, these youtube opinion videos… Honest question, how often do you feel just informed after watching one of those and not at least a little angry? Because I never watch any of them and I get angry just seeing the stupid thumbnail and the awful clickbait title. And that‘s all these pseudo-experts are trying to do - generate negativity.

They're pretty much reporting the news, not their fault the news is all negative nowadays.

Apparently the co-creator said Homer will indeed continue to strangle Bart. It sounds like this was just a joke and everyone blew it out of proportion and took it at face value.

Honestly though, everyone is such an oversensitive pussy nowadays, it would be believable that they would remove Homer choking Bart. I mean, they got rid of Apu over literal nonsense.

[Barkworm]

They're pretty much reporting the news, not their fault the news is all negative nowadays.

Apparently the co-creator said Homer will indeed continue to strangle Bart. It sounds like this was just a joke and everyone blew it out of proportion and took it at face value.

See, there‘s your contradiction right there. It‘s not news, just a quote taken out of context and spun into clickbait fake news.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, yeah. Well hey. Forgive me/us for jumping the gun on a kind of thing that is happening widespread, wantonly.

[Barkworm]

The point is, if you‘re angry about societal issues, getting even angrier because some youtube idiot sh*ts their garbage content into the world and doesn‘t even reasearch it properly, is probably not going to improve anything on the actual problem.

[ZariusTwo]

I'd probably just have Homer choke Bart in the Treehouse of Horrors exclusively going forward. Make it a once a year tradition.

[Wildcat]

Like I said in my previous post people just like complaining about woke stuff.

I knew that line was just a self reference when I watched it. It never struck me as a woke thing.

The latest Treehouse of Horror was pretty graphic. The Sideshow Bob segment. It was creative too. Could have been an entire Halloween episode but nobody wants to talk about the show still being good. Not saying every episode is.

[Barkworm]

I haven‘t watched any Simpsons episodes in years. I stopped watching the show when season 13 came out but I hadn‘t enjoyed any episodes for a couple of years by then. Season 9 still had its share of hilarious episodes but that was when the show started to go downhill. That‘s an amazing run though, how many shows can claim they‘ve had about 200 great episodes?

[ZariusTwo]

I haven‘t watched any Simpsons episodes in years. I stopped watching the show when season 13 came out but I hadn‘t enjoyed any episodes for a couple of years by then. Season 9 still had its share of hilarious episodes but that was when the show started to go downhill. That‘s an amazing run though, how many shows can claim they‘ve had about 200 great episodes?

The recent seasons have been really good too, largely in part to Al finally promoting someone to co-showrunner

[Barkworm]

The recent seasons have been really good too, largely in part to Al finally promoting someone to co-showrunner
I think the latest episode that I saw years ago was one you recommended. It was set in the future and I remember you saying the episode could have worked well as a series finale. Do you know which one that was?

[ZariusTwo]

I think the latest episode that I saw years ago was one you recommended. It was set in the future and I remember you saying the episode could have worked well as a series finale. Do you know which one that was?

I think that one was 'Barthood'

[CyberCubed]

I did a full rewatch of the first 10 seasons earlier this year along with a select handful of eps from Season 11 and 12, and then watched the movie and the future episode as the finale. Good enough time to stop there.

[Mad Dog McMutt]

I am a dvd collector and I only own the first 12 seasons of the Simpsons along with the movie. I think that you can see a significant decline after season 10, but 11 and 12 are still decent. Every episode that I have seen after 12 was atrocious.

[member_removed]

The recent seasons have been really good too, largely in part to Al finally promoting someone to co-showrunner

My wife heard good things about Treehouse of Horror XXXIII, so we put it on Disney+ we enjoyed it and kept watching. I've seen about half of season 34 now and I've enjoyed it.

It's not Seasons 3-9 quality. But it's a massive step up.

I think the rot set in around season 11 with Saddlesore Galtica (S11e13). I always thought the Simpsons had a sense of realism when I was a kid. Struggling for money to pay for air conditioning, etc. But ****ing murderous trolls posing as jockey's. Good grief.

I think the last great episode from the early run was "A tale of two Springfields" S12e02.

I'm going to finish season 34 and might start 33. It's nice to be enjoying the Simpsons again.

Julie Kavner is sounding every day of her 73 years of age.

[TheCanadiandrome]

It has its moments. I still enjoy watching it. It’s not nearly as bad as South Park, that just got terrible, haven’t watched it in years aside from those stupid Covid specials. Other than Simpsons, I still watch Family Guy, Bobs Burgers, Futurama & American Dad

[Prowler]

I do wonder what will happen the day The Simpsons finally end. The property is not going to die and I think that's obvious. But where will they go from there? An eventual new cartoon series? And how much would it differ?

[CyberCubed]

Once Marge's VA dies, it's time to call it quits.

[IMJ]

Wonder how many "hours of the Simpsons" we have now. Like.... at what point in life does it become impossible to watch every Simpsons episode ever made?

[CyberCubed]

The Simpsons has less episodes than a lot of popular anime, it's easily possible to watch them all still. If people can binge watch 500-1000+ ep anime this is possible.

[member_removed]

Once Marge's VA dies, it's time to call it quits.

Yeah, Julie Kavner is 73 and Harry Shearer is 79. The cast isn't getting any younger.

[TheCanadiandrome]

I do wonder what will happen the day The Simpsons finally end. The property is not going to die and I think that's obvious. But where will they go from there? An eventual new cartoon series? And how much would it differ?

probably one last movie for sure. I do recall Matt Groening saying as much, after how well the movie did. doubt they'd do another series or even a reboot as what would they gain from doin that


Yeah, Julie Kavner is 73 and Harry Shearer is 79. The cast isn't getting any younger.

retirement could be imminent, albeit perhaps VA's last longer

[Prowler]

The Simpsons has less episodes than a lot of popular anime, it's easily possible to watch them all still. If people can binge watch 500-1000+ ep anime this is possible.

A quick google search tells me that The Simpsons has 758 episodes as of today.

You're right that, let's say, One Piece has more episodes than The Simpsons. It broke the 1000 episode barrier not that long ago even. But that's a series with very strong continuity, story arcs and a plot that's been consistent from the day one. Plus, it's an adaptation of a manga comic series. The Simpsons is an episodic comedy series about a family of 5 people. A bit harder to marathon a massive show of such format and genre. Hell, FW TMNT has 194 episodes or something, and it can get tiresome to marathon it mainly due to seasons 3 and 4 being huge. Put together those 2 seasons have almost 100 episodes. And watching nearly 100 episodes of episodic nature with the same formula will feel like a slog.

I could see myself marathoning the first 10 Simpsons seasons or so, but I really doubt I'd be able to watch the past 20 seasons or so.

Regardless, even if the cartoon series eventually ends, the property isn't going to die or get shelved, I feel. They'll keep on making merchandise and ivdeo games, I'm sure.

[LeotheLateBloomer]

I was wondering if they'll go as far as to replace Julie Kavner and Harry Shearer's roles like how Nancy Cartwright replaced Christine Cavanaugh as Chuckie Finster from Rugrats but I don't think it'll be that simple. They may want the show to last forever but I think it's going to be harder than they want.

[Coola Yagami]

I honestly see no end in sight. It seems every time the show's gonna end, they always announce that 2 or more seasons have already been approved.

I honestly think the conversation of the show ending won't even become a possibility until one of the family members VA dies, as morbid as it sounds.

Also who the **** has the time to binge-watch 500-1000 episode animes? Maybe kids, but not adults with actual full time jobs and responsibilities. Some of these shows only work if you're watching them live week after week as they occur. I find it's incredibly too late for someone completely new to get into One Piece today.

[CyberCubed]

Also who the **** has the time to binge-watch 500-1000 episode animes? Maybe kids, but not adults with actual full time jobs and responsibilities. Some of these shows only work if you're watching them live week after week as they occur. I find it's incredibly too late for someone completely new to get into One Piece today.

Most people watch hundreds of episodes of different shows combined. It's not that hard to do.

[Coola Yagami]

Most people watch hundreds of episodes of different shows combined. It's not that hard to do.

People without lives maybe.

[Wildcat]

probably one last movie for sure. I do recall Matt Groening saying as much, after how well the movie did. doubt they'd do another series or even a reboot as what would they gain from doin that

They will definitely do another series. I think they’ll age them and focus on Bart and Lisa. It’s something they’ve only done in hypothetical future episodes.

That’s the most logical next step. There’s no way they just leave them as-is after the original run ends. It’s become too big to not continue in some way.

[TheCanadiandrome]

They will definitely do another series. I think they’ll age them and focus on Bart and Lisa. It’s something they’ve only done in hypothetical future episodes.

That’s the most logical next step. There’s no way they just leave them as-is after the original run ends. It’s become too big to not continue in some way.

I dunno dude, sequel and prequel shows have been done to death for years and never do the OG series' any justice alot of the time, and as you said, they've covered alot in episodes of the current show, so why would there be a need for a whole new series on "Future Bart & Lisa"?

Simpons should do one last movie and end on a high, no need to ruin things with reboots, remakes, sequels/prequels, etc. imo

[CyberCubed]

People without lives maybe.

Explain how anime fans watch their shonen shows that go on for hundreds of episodes like Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, DBZ, etc.

[Wildcat]

I dunno dude, sequel and prequel shows have been done to death for years and never do the OG series' any justice alot of the time, and as you said, they've covered alot in episodes of the current show, so why would there be a need for a whole new series on "Future Bart & Lisa"?

Simpons should do one last movie and end on a high, no need to ruin things with reboots, remakes, sequels/prequels, etc. imo

Because it’s something they’ve never done. Actually age them. It opens up even more storylines. Not saying it would last another 30+ seasons but it’d be a different direction.

[BornAgain]

Season 9 is a pretty clear cut-off for me. Season 9 is when something starts to feel “off” but I still get a lot of enjoyment out of it. By season 10, something is seriously wrong. Thankfully the voice cast is so great that it’s still not a bad show at that point.

Season 8 is interesting. I’ve been rewatching it lately. You can really feel the show stretching its legs in need of new directions and experimental plots. It’s like the wheels are starting to fall off but you’re still at top-speed so the error has yet to kick in.

[Coola Yagami]

Explain how anime fans watch their shonen shows that go on for hundreds of episodes like Naruto, One Piece, Bleach, DBZ, etc.

Like I said, people without lives. Maybe not keeping up with them week after week when the episodes are new, but binge watching them hours on end? Yeah, these people have no jobs.

[TheCanadiandrome]

Because it’s something they’ve never done. Actually age them. It opens up even more storylines. Not saying it would last another 30+ seasons but it’d be a different direction.

I dunno dude I mean maybe, after all we did get Young Sheldon after Big Bang Theory and that went strong, but I just don’t see enough interest in an “Older Bart & Lisa” series. They’re just not that overly interesting that they can hold a show on their own, they kinda need all the other characters to play off of imo. I’d give it maybe a season and that’s it. Maybe do a movie but not a full series

[Coola Yagami]

I dunno dude I mean maybe, after all we did get Young Sheldon after Big Bang Theory and that went strong, but I just don’t see enough interest in an “Older Bart & Lisa” series. They’re just not that overly interesting that they can hold a show on their own, they kinda need all the other characters to play off of imo. I’d give it maybe a season and that’s it. Maybe do a movie but not a full series

What makes you think the show would just be about older Bart and Lisa without the rest of the Springfield crew...? Of course we're gonna see Nelson, Milhouse, Ralph and whoever else.

[Prowler]

And The Simpsons are still running as of today.

If they keep on renewing it every year then obviously there have to be enough people watching it still, right? No network or streaming service or whatever renews a series for 15 years in a row if it doesn't give them some profit, even if said series hasn't been culturally relevant or anywhere near as popular for about 25 years at this point.

The question is: who is watching the modern day Simpsons episodes? Huge fans who can't just let it go and want to go down with the sinking ship? Because i can't imagine teenagers or people under 25 watching The Simspons nowadays without straight up going for the classic episodes first.

Honestly, The Simpsons should just end already and live off selling merchandise and the occasional video game for the rest of our lives. I'm sure the property would survive alone on that.

[ToTheNines]

The question is: who is watching the modern day Simpsons episodes?

I was asking this 20 years ago.

[Prowler]

I was asking this 20 years ago.

I think I stopped watching The Simpsons on a regular basis around... 2002 or 2003? And keep in mind my country was one season behind or so at the time since they needed to subtitle the episodes.

But yeah, it just stopped being must see TV and episodes were becoming very hit or miss. I remember reading online forums in 2005-2006 and seeing lots of people complaining about how much Simpsons sucked nowadays. Having said that, my brother, who was a massive Simpsons fan, was very hyped about the movie and went to see it and even bought it on DVD. I never watched it myself, though. All I know about it is the Spider-Pig gag and Homer flipping off the bird in one screenshot.

Anyway, I suspect a lot of Americans aren't aware how huge The Simpsons were worldwide, especially in Europe, back in the day. I suspect Europeans in general might have liked The Simpsons even more than the Americans did back in the 90s. Sometimes popular domestic shows don't click well with foreign audience and flop abroad, but The Simpsons clicked very well and was very successful abroad.

[Coola Yagami]

Haven't seen it in years.

The last episode I saw was that 'what if' final episode where Bart finally becomes self aware that he's been 10 since forever and nothing ever really changed but it was going to change as he was finally turning 11. The idea was so meta I just had to see it.

[Prowler]

Haven't seen it in years.

The last episode I saw was that 'what if' final episode where Bart finally becomes self aware that he's been 10 since forever and nothing ever really changed but it was going to change as he was finally turning 11. The idea was so meta I just had to see it.

Characters not aging is a theme in fiction in general. Calvin from Calvin & Hobbes remained 6 years old for the strip's entire run. Jeremy Duncan stayed a HS teenager as well, which is even more anachronistic in his case because the strip has a lot of jokes and mentions about his parents being baby boomers, which made sense for a 15-17 year old teen in 1997, but in 2025 obviously not. The Foxtrot characters haven't aged either since the strip's debut in the late 80s. Jason Fox is still a 5th grader.

And, as for video games, Mario and Sonic never age either. Ever noticed that? :lol:

[sdp]

I'm going to watch every episode of the Simpsons before the second movie comes out. Wish me luck. Haven't even begun yet so with so many episodes I might not make it to my goal before the movie is out.

[Coola Yagami]

Characters not aging is a theme in fiction in general. Calvin from Calvin & Hobbes remained 6 years old for the strip's entire run. Jeremy Duncan stayed a HS teenager as well, which is even more anachronistic in his case because the strip has a lot of jokes and mentions about his parents being baby boomers, which made sense for a 15-17 year old teen in 1997, but in 2025 obviously not. The Foxtrot characters haven't aged either since the strip's debut in the late 80s. Jason Fox is still a 5th grader.

And, as for video games, Mario and Sonic never age either. Ever noticed that? :lol:

True but I mean, it's funny the one time the character is allowed to realize it.

I also like the one bit where Bart and Lisa realize their hair has no separation. I mean in the Tracy Ulman shorts you can chock it up to 'oh it's just character design', but it's noticeable when they got their own show and only Bart, Lisa and Maggie had hair like that.

[cammy85]

I started watching again regular when Disney Plus was adding the episodes after they air instead of full seasons. A few years ago, it was really good; but now the quality is as it ws before. Sad, really.