Modern interpretation of Fred Wolf Turtles

[D Piddy 1982]

Just to vent (a little)…2 things that annoy me with the modern interpretation of the FW Turtles.

1. The art. For some reason whoever is in charge of doing new art for packaging (i.e. NECA packaging or TMNT official social media posts) it’s just not right. The art looks like some sort of weird clip art. Just annoying to look at! The pinnacle of FW art is in the season 1-2 intro and the first 3 episodes. For me at least, that's how I picture them in my mind. The new stuff hurts my eyes.

2. The way the now traditional Turtle character traits get thrown into the FW Turtles – example FW Raph now always looks angry and is the “hot head” one. But in FW he was nothing like that. He was the sarcastic joker. It’s like taking the 2012 Turtles and throwing the FW characteristics at them for future marketing material – it just doesn’t fit.

That’s it. It’s petty, but that’s it. Good day to you sir.

[neatoman]

If you want an explanation for these two factors:


There may be some discrepancies between Paramount and Fred Wolf (and/or that French company making the NFTs), meaning there must be some noticeable differences in the artwork. How true that is and to what extent is a bit up in the air.
Despite what some people might tell you, the FW cartoon isn't unshakably iconic. If almost every iteration of the franchise aligns with the idea that Raph is "the angry one" then that's what he'll be seen as even if it doesn't apply to the Fred Wolf cartoon.

[neatoman]

I think it's also revisionist history from fans/people who don't really remember the show, but through osmosis have picked up that Raph is the 'angry one', so that's how he's portrayed now even in the FW products.

Isn't that the same thing I was trying to convey?

[Coola Yagami]

To be fair, out of the 4 of them, 80's Raph was the closest you could consider a hothead. He just wasn't perma-angry like other versions.

I mean most of his wisecracks were 'mean' and whatnot and he was always picking on Michealangelo. It's as close as the old cartoon could get to 'being angry'.

If anything my biggest complaint is modern versions making it look like all 4 of them were laughing idiots when at the very least Leo and Don were the serious ones.

[D Piddy 1982]

If you want an explanation for these two factors:


There may be some discrepancies between Paramount and Fred Wolf (and/or that French company making the NFTs), meaning there must be some noticeable differences in the artwork. How true that is and to what extent is a bit up in the air.
Despite what some people might tell you, the FW cartoon isn't unshakably iconic. If almost every iteration of the franchise aligns with the idea that Raph is "the angry one" then that's what he'll be seen as even if it doesn't apply to the Fred Wolf cartoon.


RE the artwork. For a professional company which I hope is using or hiring professional artists - the new artwork doesn't align. Not good enough. By a long shot. There are more talented artists on here who can get the style right! It's not difficult if you've got the talent. The discrepancies are only due to artist (or people directing the artist) not being able to get that FW style.

In fact we know there are at least 2 art styles from the 80's for the FW Turtles. The Turtles we saw in the actual cartoon (of which I’ll admit there are even variations of this variation!) and also the more thicker chunky Turtles we saw on the marketing goods. The modern day take on the FW Turtles doesn't really match with either of those.

RE the character traits. I'm not saying that FW is the yardstick. What I'm saying is what if you flip reversed it and made 2012 Raph a sarcastic joker? Each series has their own take, why mix it up?

[Prowler]

Since I haven't kept up with the property in nearly a decade by now, I wasn't aware of how they were being portrayed.

I just remember that the FW Turtles acted a little too Goofy in Turtles Forever. I believe even 2k3 Raphael said "All these Turtles act like Michelangelo!". A but if an exaggeration imo. Plus, FW Mike was nowhere near as annoying as 2k3 Mike.

[Coola Yagami]

Since I haven't kept up with the property in nearly a decade by now, I wasn't aware of how they were being portrayed.

I just remember that the FW Turtles acted a little too Goofy in Turtles Forever. I believe even 2k3 Raphael said "All these Turtles act like Michelangelo!". A but if an exaggeration imo. Plus, FW Mike was nowhere near as annoying as 2k3 Mike.

I'd say he wasn't annoying at all, just a bit more pizza puns and surfer lingo than the rest of them.

2K3 Mikey and 2012Mikey had times where they were purposely annoying and teasing their brothers and just being an overall asshole.

[Aaronardo]

The weird Viacom corporate FW Turtles have always bothered me. Especially since they cropped up on the heels of Turtles Forever, which visually nailed the look of the original show. It especially bothers me because it isn't even consistent -- based on the image, the Turtles' heads will be wide and round, excessively skinny, or angular(???). The FW show wasn't always consistent about this either, but if there was variation it was usually kept the same throughout an entire episode.

I'm not sure what it is about extremely saturated greens and yellows, deep green shells, and black/yellow belt buckles that marketing seems to think people want over a show-accurate interpretation.

[Prowler]

I'd say he wasn't annoying at all, just a bit more pizza puns and surfer lingo than the rest of them.

2K3 Mikey and 2012Mikey had times where they were purposely annoying and teasing their brothers and just being an overall asshole.

Yes at least 87 Mike has a lot of charm and charisma. Hell, I learned the word "dude" from him! Whenever I use it in English I feel like that's due to me growing up with the FW series.

[Coola Yagami]

The weird Viacom corporate FW Turtles have always bothered me. Especially since they cropped up on the heels of Turtles Forever, which visually nailed the look of the original show. It especially bothers me because it isn't even consistent -- based on the image, the Turtles' heads will be wide and round, excessively skinny, or angular(???). The FW show wasn't always consistent about this either, but if there was variation it was usually kept the same throughout an entire episode.

I'm not sure what it is about extremely saturated greens and yellows, deep green shells, and black/yellow belt buckles that marketing seems to think people want over a show-accurate interpretation.

And that odd extra lining around their plastron too. It finally became canon in the 2012 TMNT show whenever they turned 3D.

[Sumac]

Mike in FW was very much a fun dude, not a an annoying fool like in 2k3 or just plain retarded like 2k12.
Seriously, if I knew Mikey from those versions alone I'd hated him.

[Prowler]

Mike in FW was very much a fun dude, not a an annoying fool like in 2k3 or just plain retarded like 2k12.
Seriously, if I knew Mikey from those versions alone I'd hated him.

I remember back then Mike was already generally considered the dumbest of the Turtles, even by his brothers. In the Donatello Duplicate episode, Don's evil duplicate even says so that Raphael is a rocket scientist compared to Michelangelo :lol:

[Coola Yagami]

I remember back then Mike was already generally considered the dumbest of the Turtles, even by his brothers. In the Donatello Duplicate episode, Don's evil duplicate even says so that Raphael is a rocket scientist compared to Michelangelo :lol:

It was weird. It's like the characters would say all that stuff, but Mike himself would never actually do anything dumb, or at least dumb by that show's standards.

I think the only time he messed up was when they were using a remote controlled squid to punish the bad guys and when Mikey got a turn, it actually let them get away.

[neatoman]

RE the character traits. I'm not saying that FW is the yardstick. What I'm saying is what if you flip reversed it and made 2012 Raph a sarcastic joker? Each series has their own take, why mix it up?

Well, I think the reason is that not that many people actually remember/care about what Raph was actually like in the show. Raph is the angry guy in Mirage, Archie, The 1990 movie, the 4Kids cartoon, the 2007 movie, IDW, the 2012 cartoon and the 2014 movie. Some aspects of the Fred Wolf cartoon are just bound to get overshadowed by other versions and it's going to get really hard to keep track of how that show differed from them if hardly anyone keeps watching the show.

Your example of the 2012 Raph changing is very unlikely to happen because the 2012 Raph aligns better with the general idea of what the character is. If it were to happen though, it would actually be weirder precisely because the FW version of Raph is the exception rather than the norm.

[Prowler]

It was weird. It's like the characters would say all that stuff, but Mike himself would never actually do anything dumb, or at least dumb by that show's standards.

I think the only time he messed up was when they were using a remote controlled squid to punish the bad guys and when Mikey got a turn, it actually let them get away.

Or that Red Sky episode where they accuse Mikey of goofing off in the middle of fights and missions... never in previous episodes had we seen him getting distracted from doing his job. And never saw him doing it again either. So I dunno what the hell was up with that eoisode
Made Mikey look very immature and irresponsible.

[The-Shredder]

The modern licensing art appears to be based off of Steve Lavigne's art style, which has been used since the late 80s. In some artwork, the poses are based on the 2003 licensing art. The color scheme has been used since at least around the time of the 25th anniversary. There was a picture of two of the Turtles in that licensing art style hanging on an orange Nickelodeon blimp when the sale to Viacom was announced in 2009, but I can't find it right now.

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[Icebot]

Or that Red Sky episode where they accuse Mikey of goofing off in the middle of fights and missions... never in previous episodes had we seen him getting distracted from doing his job. And never saw him doing it again either. So I dunno what the hell was up with that eoisode
Made Mikey look very immature and irresponsible.

That episode is HAVOC in the Streets. And Mikey did say at the end of the episode from now on his goofing off days are over so that should explain why he never did it again. A few episodes earlier in Combat Land, Leonardo gave all 3 turtles a hard time about goofing off and at the end, all 4 turtles agreed to goof off. And Splinter gave all the turtles a hard time about goofing off in Beneath These Streets.

I think Mikey did goof off a little in Pizza By The Shred. He bought that dice when he was supposed to help the other turtles work on the Neutrino star cruiser.

[D Piddy 1982]

The weird Viacom corporate FW Turtles have always bothered me. Especially since they cropped up on the heels of Turtles Forever, which visually nailed the look of the original show. It especially bothers me because it isn't even consistent -- based on the image, the Turtles' heads will be wide and round, excessively skinny, or angular(???). The FW show wasn't always consistent about this either, but if there was variation it was usually kept the same throughout an entire episode.

I'm not sure what it is about extremely saturated greens and yellows, deep green shells, and black/yellow belt buckles that marketing seems to think people want over a show-accurate interpretation.

This. You put it way better than I could have!


It was weird. It's like the characters would say all that stuff, but Mike himself would never actually do anything dumb, or at least dumb by that show's standards.

I think the only time he messed up was when they were using a remote controlled squid to punish the bad guys and when Mikey got a turn, it actually let them get away.

In FW I guess Mikey really was "The Party Dude". He wasn't dumb or goofy, he was just a Californian spirit who liked a good time, but was always down when the action got serious.


The modern licensing art appears to be based off of Steve Lavigne's art style, which has been used since the late 80s. In some artwork, the poses are based on the 2003 licensing art. The color scheme has been used since at least around the time of the 25th anniversary. There was a picture of two of the Turtles in that licensing art style hanging on an orange Nickelodeon blimp when the sale to Viacom was announced in 2009, but I can't find it right now.

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Nah, the modern licensing art is still way off even this to my eye. I mean if they could hit this style it wouldn't bother me. Whatever it is they are doing, it bugs me soooo much!

[Sumac]

In FW I guess Mikey really was "The Party Dude". He wasn't dumb or goofy, he was just a Californian spirit who liked a good time, but was always down when the action got serious.
Precisely. And he shines in solo episodes, which demonstrate "fun loving dude" is not that is all there to him. The same goes for 2K3 Mikey, who also shined in his solo episodes and looked much more...normal, than his usual self.
And then you have a flaming piece of trash that is 2k12 Mike...

[Anarchistguy]

1)How about how all four of them are party dudes and they all say Cowabunga?

2)And the Turtle Van being exclusively called by its toy name: The Party Wagon.


RE the character traits. I'm not saying that FW is the yardstick. What I'm saying is what if you flip reversed it and made 2012 Raph a sarcastic joker? Each series has their own take, why mix it up?

Well to be fair, even in the Archie comics, which were based on the FW TMNT cartoon, Raph was portrayed as the angry hotheaded loner rather than the sarcastic joker

[Coola Yagami]

1)How about how all four of them are party dudes and they all say Cowabunga?

2)And the Turtle Van being exclusively called by its toy name: The Party Wagon.



Well to be fair, even in the Archie comics, which were based on the FW TMNT cartoon, Raph was portrayed as the angry hotheaded loner rather than the sarcastic joker

I get the feeling 2K3 Raph would be good with the trash talk and the wisecracks too, but due to his temper, you'd probably get 1, maybe 2 insults at him before he loses his **** and comes at you. He's not one for a war of words.

[Metalwolf]

That line art makes me think of balloons, and the bright corporate colors makes me think of Baby's First Ninja Turtles...

[NeonTurtledude]

yeah the new artwork for the fred wolf turtles looks very "off" and too oversaturated.

at least with the fred wolf turtle art from the era the show was on, like the Greg Martin VHS covers or the artwork from the cartoon itself showed good use of shading and variety when depicting the turtles,

https://cutewallpaper.org/26/art-of-greg-martin-wallpaper/1220726874.jpg

[AquaParade]

yeah the new artwork for the fred wolf turtles looks very "off" and too oversaturated.

at least with the fred wolf turtle art from the era the show was on, like the Greg Martin VHS covers or the artwork from the cartoon itself showed good use of shading and variety when depicting the turtles,

https://cutewallpaper.org/26/art-of-greg-martin-wallpaper/1220726874.jpg

I just freakin love these VHS covers. They are so pleasing to my eyes. The colors pop.

Imagine if the show looked this good. It's like imagining FW TMNT done by 80's/90's Disney.

[NeonTurtledude]

FW TMNT in the style of the VHS covers would be amazing to see

[Ninja Tiptup]

Nah, the modern licensing art is still way off even this to my eye. I mean if they could hit this style it wouldn't bother me. Whatever it is they are doing, it bugs me soooo much!

It bugs the shell out of me as well especially when they mix the fake FW faces with poses from 2003 stock art. Whenever there's some post including the FW series on the TMNT twitter the FW art is straight up fugly.

Lionsgate sometimes made some very questionable art choices with their FW DVDs but the stuff on Viacom licensed products can look outright hideous.

[NeonTurtledude]

I just freakin love these VHS covers. They are so pleasing to my eyes. The colors pop.

Imagine if the show looked this good. It's like imagining FW TMNT done by 80's/90's Disney.

you know, while I was browsing IMDb, I found out that a lot of the Fred wolf tmnt animators did later end up working for 80s/90s Disney, some of which still do today and others were at Disney since the 60s, fascinating stuff.