Thunderbolts MCU movie

[Andrew NDB]

Well, we know where Baron Zemo is going next now:

https://comicbook.com/marvel/news/marvel-thunderbolts-movie-jake-schreier-director/?fbclid=IwAR3_cq5FaxHo3Gm1lEba1y4ESVZTl1ANMA9yh_--FRFOLJ-CvoFSyuF4_ek

[Galactus]

I know that a lot of people assume that they will go with Suicide Squad-esque incarnation but I'm really hoping they start off with the original premise of super villains posing as heroes after most of the superhero community disappears. It would make total sense given that in the MCU the Avengers are no longer around.

[Autbot_Benz]

The MCU Thunderbolts


https://i.imgur.com/J7qjnca.jpg

[Andrew NDB]

Some surprises in that lineup. Also, what the hell... no Zemo?

[Autbot_Benz]

Some surprises in that lineup. Also, what the hell... no Zemo?

I bet Zemo shows up as a surprise

[Coola Yagami]

I bet Zemo shows up as a surprise

I mean... it wouldn't be a surprise seeing as everyone wants him there. Now make MCU Wolverine join the team mid-way, and THAT would be a surprise.

[Andrew NDB]

I also wanted the rumors to be true about Jon Bernthal's Punisher being on the team. Now that'd get me excited.

What is a little surprising... 6 of the 7 there are white people.

[Sumac]

I also wanted the rumors to be true about Jon Bernthal's Punisher being on the team. Now that'd get me excited.

What is a little surprising... 6 of the 7 there are white people.
Diversity matters...until its not.

[Coola Yagami]

I also wanted the rumors to be true about Jon Bernthal's Punisher being on the team. Now that'd get me excited.

What is a little surprising... 6 of the 7 there are white people.

Shhh you'll wake up the SJWs.

Eh, they'll probably make them all act like assholes or whatever cause white man. I mean Captain Britain has already been portrayed as a buffoon and US Agent was an asshole.

Bucky escapes the asshole treatment cause he's a pre-woke MCU era favorite.

[ChosenOne]

Diversity matters...until its not.

The only diversity I care about here is that they're all super soldiers/spies. No tanks, no flying bricks, no ranged attackers, no tech heads, nothing.

[TigerClaw]

The only diversity I care about here is that they're all super soldiers/spies. No tanks, no flying bricks, no ranged attackers, no tech heads, nothing.
Except this Taskmaster is a tech head, because the suit has tech in it that helps her be able to learn an opponent's fighting style without any training.

[IMJ]

Absolutely disinteresting team and lineup. Maybe though they could pull of some Suicide Squad level of fun with it.

[TigerClaw]

Seeing Winter Soldier and US Agent being part of the team will be interesting, They are certainly gonna butt heads at each other since there encounter in Falcon and the Winter Soldier.

[ChosenOne]

Except this Taskmaster is a tech head, because the suit has tech in it that helps her be able to learn an opponent's fighting style without any training.

Still a spy type. I was thinking more along the lines of someone, maybe even Justin Hammer or a new character like Beetle or something, in an armored suit.

[Andrew NDB]

Harrison Ford is (apparently?) the front-runner to replace William Hurt as General Ross:

https://comicbook.com/movies/news/marvel-thunderbolts-harrison-ford-thaddeus-ross-mcu-rumors/

[CyberCubed]

Are they sure they want to cast an 80 year old for a set of movies he may not be able to perform for in the coming years?

[Andrew NDB]

It's true... Ford is almost 10 years older than William Hurt when William Hurt died.

[ProphetofGanja]

Yeah talk about doubling-down on an old dog :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

Ghost might be dropped from the lineup. Even though she's... the only one with superpowers on the team:

https://comicbookmovie.com/thunderbolts/thunderbolts-rumor-points-to-hannah-john-kamens-ghost-being-dropped-from-the-movie-a199950?fbclid=IwAR3ZkZ31oUff1f8JzY-fBeRUwGJTWAJVWmmAroX5tUEA0DHKiggNKN4r_so#gs.8dca.n mhphm

[Coola Yagami]

Ghost might be dropped from the lineup. Even though she's... the only one with superpowers on the team:

https://comicbookmovie.com/thunderbolts/thunderbolts-rumor-points-to-hannah-john-kamens-ghost-being-dropped-from-the-movie-a199950?fbclid=IwAR3ZkZ31oUff1f8JzY-fBeRUwGJTWAJVWmmAroX5tUEA0DHKiggNKN4r_so#gs.8dca.n mhphm

did she do or say something to upset the wokies?

[IMJ]

Ghost might be dropped from the lineup. Even though she's... the only one with superpowers on the team:

https://comicbookmovie.com/thunderbolts/thunderbolts-rumor-points-to-hannah-john-kamens-ghost-being-dropped-from-the-movie-a199950?fbclid=IwAR3ZkZ31oUff1f8JzY-fBeRUwGJTWAJVWmmAroX5tUEA0DHKiggNKN4r_so#gs.8dca.n mhphm

Ghost used to be one of my absolute favorite Iron Man villains - awesome character. Almost every single Iron Man villain has been butchered by the MCU in some way or another. Which is really ironic because Kevin Feige at one point stated in an interview that Iron Man doesn't have a strong rogues gallery - yet here we are with a ton of Iron Man villains translated to screen so far, most of which were changed dramatically and not entirely for the better.

[Sumac]

Ghost? As in girl from the second Ant-Man movie or I just confuse her with someone else?

[IMJ]

Ghost? As in girl from the second Ant-Man movie or I just confuse her with someone else?

Yeah. But Ghost from that movie was SJW'd big time. The original character was a male and had interesting motivation for industrial sabotage rather than "I'm a naturally wonderful person who was wronged and therefore my evil is the fault of others" crap.

[ChosenOne]

Yeah. But Ghost from that movie was SJW'd big time. The original character was a male and had interesting motivation for industrial sabotage rather than "I'm a naturally wonderful person who was wronged and therefore my evil is the fault of others" crap.

They did to Ghost what they did to Taskmaster.

[IMJ]

They did to Ghost what they did to Taskmaster.

They did. And Taskmaster was yet another Iron Man villain - I suppose arguably "Avengers villain" but still in that stable.

Blizzard turned into a kid with a weather machine and assigned to Agents of SHIELD
The Mandarin never manifested in an Iron Man movie and assigned to Shang Chi
Taskmaster assigned to SJW and delivered to Black Widow
Ghost assigned to SJW and delivered to Ant-Man
Crimson Dynamo combined with Whiplash in Iron Man 2 so as not to have Iron Man fight another guy in armor. Movie ends with fight with three guys in armor
M.O.D.O.K. changed into Yellowjacket 2.0 and assigned to Ant-Man 3

There might even be one or two more that I can't recall at the moment.

[Coola Yagami]

They did. And Taskmaster was yet another Iron Man villain - I suppose arguably "Avengers villain" but still in that stable.

Blizzard turned into a kid with a weather machine and assigned to Agents of SHIELD
The Mandarin never manifested in an Iron Man movie and assigned to Shang Chi
Taskmaster assigned to SJW and delivered to Black Widow
Ghost assigned to SJW and delivered to Ant-Man
Crimson Dynamo combined with Whiplash in Iron Man 2 so as not to have Iron Man fight another guy in armor. Movie ends with fight with three guys in armor
M.O.D.O.K. changed into Yellowjacket 2.0 and assigned to Ant-Man 3

There might even be one or two more that I can't recall at the moment.

And on the flipside, Vulture and Mysterio, being turned from Spider-Man villains to Iron Man villains that just so happened to be delivered to Spider-Man.

[IMJ]

And on the flipside, Vulture and Mysterio, being turned from Spider-Man villains to Iron Man villains that just so happened to be delivered to Spider-Man.

Oh yeah good point on those. But you know what? At least those changes in the end didn't affect the character's core competency, visual style or conflict with Spider-man himself.

[FrederikWolferson]

Fun fact, Thunderbolts #1 was the first comic I ever bought.

[Andrew NDB]

So it shoots in June and is being rewritten by a new dude.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/lee-sung-jin-rewrites-marvels-thunderbolts/

[Autbot_Benz]

THUNDERBOLTS
Previously dated on 7/26/24 moves to 12/20/24

https://www.marvel.com/articles/movies/marvel-studios-announces-updates-to-theatrical-release-schedule

[Andrew NDB]

It's said to have "a new perspective." Uh, what does that mean?

https://www.darkhorizons.com/mcus-thunderbolts-has-different-perspective/

[IMJ]

It's said to have "a new perspective." Uh, what does that mean?

https://www.darkhorizons.com/mcus-thunderbolts-has-different-perspective/

Probably the neo-sensibility that "nobody is evil or bad" and instead just misguided and can evolve to be a good guy (i.e. Adam Warlock in GOTG 3). And so it will be like The Suicide Squad but with "gooder" bad guy- good guys. :roll:

[Coola Yagami]

Probably the neo-sensibility that "nobody is evil or bad" and instead just misguided and can evolve to be a good guy (i.e. Adam Warlock in GOTG 3). And so it will be like The Suicide Squad but with "gooder" bad guy- good guys. :roll:

Maybe they'll say 'remember, we're the bad guys' every ten minutes.

[Andrew NDB]

o9FAVDDpUyQ

[Galactus]

Probably the neo-sensibility that "nobody is evil or bad" and instead just misguided and can evolve to be a good guy (i.e. Adam Warlock in GOTG 3). And so it will be like The Suicide Squad but with "gooder" bad guy- good guys. :roll:

That's kinda the whole point of the Thunderbolts in their original incarnation. They were D-List villains masquerading as heroes as a preclude to a takeover but along the way most of them realise they like doing good, turn against Zemo and try and genuinely reform. Yes that 2000s series by Ellis which had them more as Marvel's edgier Suicide Squad was good that every attempt to revive them has tried to do a new version of that and failed. That run should have been a cool different take as opposed to the norm going forward. Frankly they were always better as villains trying to good.

[CyberCubed]

This movie is going to fail terribly. Probably do worse than Ms marvel 2 and Eternals combined. Nobody is going to remotely care what a "Thunderbolt" is.

[Coola Yagami]

This movie is going to fail terribly. Probably do worse than Ms marvel 2 and Eternals combined. Nobody is going to remotely care what a "Thunderbolt" is.

I feel bad that Ghost was removed.

This is the only movie I feel remotely curious about due to the cast of characters.

If the movie fails it's because customers lost faith in the MCU. Just like you're asking 'who cares what a Thunderbolt is', back then you could have asked 'who cares what a Guardian of the Galaxy is' but back then the movies were either amazing or good enough to have earned the good faith of the customer willing to give them a try.

[Andrew NDB]

I feel bad that Ghost was removed.

I thought that was debunked like a year ago?

[Autbot_Benz]

https://x.com/syriangeekvibes/status/1823395055912005932 first trailer leaked.

Ghost is in this movie

[Andrew NDB]

It looks, eh... harmless? I'm not really getting a "hook" here, though.

[IMJ]

https://x.com/syriangeekvibes/status/1823395055912005932 first trailer leaked.

Ghost is in this movie

SJW'd Ghost and SJW'd Taskmaster. The new Ghost costume is neat though. But I think we've known that she was going to be in the movie for quite a long time now.....

[Andrew NDB]

But I think we've known that she was going to be in the movie for quite a long time now.....

There was a quickly debunked rumor that she was bumped from the movie a year ago, then recently news places acted surprised when she was still in it for some reason. I'm glad she's in it, if for only the reason that watching Ant-Man 2 and her part wasn't pointless.

[ToTheNines]

It looks, eh... harmless? I'm not really getting a "hook" here, though.

Yeah, same feelings here. More Bucky, I guess? But he’s clearly not the main character, looks like that’s all Yelena. Still not a huge deal.

US Agent looks corny, for some reason.

[Andrew NDB]

US Agent looks corny, for some reason.

I guess at least we'll see some kind of Cap action with super serum on the big screen?

[Autbot_Benz]

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[Barkworm]

Doesn't look bad but as someone who only knew the 90s incarnation of the Thunderbolts (who were the Masters of Evil in disguise) I recognise almost no one.

[Autbot_Benz]

Doesn't look bad but as someone who only knew the 90s incarnation of the Thunderbolts (who were the Masters of Evil in disguise) I recognise almost no one.

In this one its

Red Guardian
Yelena Bolovoa
Ghost
Female crappy version of Taskmaster
Bucky Barnes
Us Agent

also Bob I think is turned into Sentry

[Andrew NDB]

I'll give it a chance. It both has the potential to be awful but also pretty entertaining.

[XERO]

Florence Pugh is all I need to watch this.

[Autbot_Benz]

8IiAm7KUuoY?si=N2HWOveybxsVLL4O

[Andrew NDB]

Is that Hailee Steinfeld there? At about 3:03?

[ToTheNines]

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Does anyone care?

[Andrew NDB]

hUUszE29jS0?si=gGqDCBpOmWO9lwts

Does anyone care?

Eh. Moderately. If I'm at a 9 excited about Daredevil: Born Again, and I was excited at a 10 for Avengers: Endgame, maybe like 0 for The Marvels, and a 4 for Captain America: Brave New World.... this is somewhere around like a solid 5, 5.5 for me?

[ZariusTwo]

hUUszE29jS0?si=gGqDCBpOmWO9lwts

Does anyone care?

This whole film looks as bored as I am.

[Andrew NDB]

Kind of like with Captain America: Brave New World... I'm not really understanding what's going on/why/who are they fighting? Except at least with this bunch they seem to be having fun, sort of, and at least 2-3 of them have had good moments in other stuff.

[Autbot_Benz]

Kind of like with Captain America: Brave New World... I'm not really understanding what's going on/why/who are they fighting? Except at least with this bunch they seem to be having fun, sort of, and at least 2-3 of them have had good moments in other stuff.

The Thunderbolts are fighting Sentry

https://i.imgur.com/WOkayBQ.jpeg

[Andrew NDB]

The Thunderbolts are fighting Sentry

https://i.imgur.com/WOkayBQ.jpeg

Um, OK... lol. Who tf is that?

[ToTheNines]

Marvel’s obscure Superman expy.

[ZariusTwo]

Who tf is that?

His whole origin is exactly that in the comics.

[ZariusTwo]

https://comicbookmovie.com/thunderbolts/thunderbolts-details-of-insane-post-credits-scene-have-leaked-online---spoilers-a218875

The movie is just the origin of the New Avengers, they have a new tower by the end. Also they give away the ending to the Fantastic Four film by having the FF arrive in the MCU

[Andrew NDB]

Reviews are coming in.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/the-marvels-thunderbolts-reviews-are-in/

“If The Avengers was the movie 2012 America needed, reveling in Obama-era exuberance while reeling from 9/11, then Thunderbolts* fits 2025, presenting a world where everything kinda sucks, and powerful people seem intent on crafting your demise.” – Alonso Duralde, The Film Verdict

[Andrew NDB]

So it's pretty easy to find spoilers of the movie now. From what I gather, it sounds exactly like a Guardians of the Galaxy movie from start to finish.

* People seem to like it.

* There are no surprise cameos of any kind.

* There are no real surprises to speak of, aside from:

At the end they become known as the "New Avengers." And then... at the end Sam Wilson ALSO has a "New Avengers."

[oldmanwinters]

Reviews are coming in.

https://www.darkhorizons.com/the-marvels-thunderbolts-reviews-are-in/

“If The Avengers was the movie 2012 America needed, reveling in Obama-era exuberance while reeling from 9/11, then Thunderbolts* fits 2025, presenting a world where everything kinda sucks, and powerful people seem intent on crafting your demise.” – Alonso Duralde, The Film Verdict

Dude doesn't sound bitter one bit! :tlol:

[ToTheNines]

I’m going tonight. Will report back.

[lonewarrior20]

I thought it was decent, had some good parts, wish they had done better with Taskmaster.

[ToTheNines]

Ooookay. I liked it, but I have a lot to say. It was a fun night out at the movies, and it was nice to be in crowded theater on premier night after such a long time, but I don’t feel like this will hold much, if any, rewatch value.

I had many nitpicks with some logic and physics. My main gripe is how this was supposed to be shortly after Brave New World, but I’m almost certain Bucky was just RUNNING for congress in that, and even said something about campaigning. But here he’s already in Congress.

Anyway, the story structure was kind of weird. This wasn’t a 3 act script, but rather just two halves. And the first half felt a little slow. While they picked up the pace in the second half, it felt super light on action. The team storming Avngers tower is immediately interrupted by the PA system, then they get jobbed by Sentry, then never actually fight him. And ultimately…

they defeat Bob’s evil side with a group hug? Also Valentina just tricked them into becoming the New Avengers?

Walker was a fun prick, Yelena was great, Red Guardian was kinda funny but was too much at times, Bucky was fine and Ghost basically had no reason to be there except to be the only one with interesting powers.

Big fan of Julia Louis-Dreyfus but can not take this character seriously. Too silly.

I’m falling asleep but might blab some more tomorrow

I thought it was decent, had some good parts, wish they had done better with Taskmaster.

Yeah, that was… abrupt.

[lonewarrior20]

The elevator climb was one of the best scenes. I just wanted Taskmaster to have a personality now that she was free of the mind control.

[ToTheNines]

Post-credit scene thoughts:

The mid-credit scene was purely humorous, which is fine. It was all Red Guardian, which made his antics in the post-credit scene even more annoying.


Post-credit scene sucked. I read spoilers and was mistakenly expecting Sam to actually show up. But instead they all just complain about him and claim that he legally trademarked the phrase “New Avengers”? And Bucky says their talk went poorly?

Does this seem like Sam at all? Childishly trademarking a superhero team name? Being an asshole to Bucky, one of his last real connections to Steve? And why would the team even give a **** if Sam took the name? They’re a CIA sanctioned Avengers team, **** Sam lol.

Anyway, Bucky and Yelena’s Avengers suits looked cool as hell. Ghost looked ok. I HATED Walker’s beret, which is a shame because his suit/helmet looked way cooler here than in FATWS. And of course RG was just in a track suit lol.

[Coola Yagami]

Saw it. Might not have been perfect, but I enjoyed it. I missed the MCU when it was actually fun.

Had no idea Florence had such a nice round backside. I'm sorry but it was hard not to notice after a while.

Just surprised certain something happened so early in the movie. I guess technically speaking that person never got to be a member of the Thunderbolts proper.

[Andrew NDB]

You should see that king movie with Florence on Netflix. You'll see plenty of backside.

[ToTheNines]

Saw it. Might not have been perfect, but I enjoyed it. I missed the MCU when it was actually fun.

Granted, it was Thursday preview night, but the crowd was super into it. Which was nice to see.

I will say that I enjoyed the message/central theme of “Life doesn’t always go how you wanted it to, but you can’t go it alone”.

[Coola Yagami]

Granted, it was Thursday preview night, but the crowd was super into it. Which was nice to see.

I will say that I enjoyed the message/central theme of “Life doesn’t always go how you wanted it to, but you can’t go it alone”.

Me too. It's too bad ScarJo is done with the MCU. She easily could have appeared in some of Yelena's flashbacks.

Yeah I know she wants her character to stay dead, and part of this movie deals with the fact that she is still dead, but c'mon, flashbacks. It was right there.

[Andrew NDB]

I'm pretty sure she'd be down if they asked. But they're not. Probably her lawsuit after Black Widow make her toxic to Disney. Persona non grata.

And her resurrection would be ridiculously easy. We just need to see what happened when Steve returned that stone.

[IMJ]

I'm pretty sure she'd be down if they asked. But they're not. Probably her lawsuit after Black Widow make her toxic to Disney. Persona non grata.

And her resurrection would be ridiculously easy. We just need to see what happened when Steve returned that stone.

If that's true, then I can only imagine what Jeremy Renner's recent public comments and actions over the Hawkeye season 2 thing will do for his reputation at Disney.

I give him credit for doing what he did, but at the same time - I mean Hawkeye season 1 was woke $#!( that no one wanted. Pretty sure they hit Renner in the salary over that trying to get season 02 done knowing they couldn't drop any real coin on it, but needing it for the agenda anyway. Now it sounds like they are going to "venture ahead bravely and boldly" with season 2 featuring only Hailey Steinfeld.

[ToTheNines]

Me too. It's too bad ScarJo is done with the MCU. She easily could have appeared in some of Yelena's flashbacks.

Yeah I know she wants her character to stay dead, and part of this movie deals with the fact that she is still dead, but c'mon, flashbacks. It was right there.

I feel like a greedy fanboy saying this since this was already a crossover/team up movie, but I did feel like this needed some “shared universe oompf”.

But I don’t know that a Natasha flashback would have been wise. Florence Pugh is a rising star, but if they’re trying to set her up as a face of the MCU, I think it’s best to let audiences move on from the fact that she’s taking over from one of the biggest celebrities on the planet and let her be her own character.

But yeah, Sam, Kate Bishop or somebody interesting should have shown up. Then again, the nature of Sentry’s takeover would have made that kind of weird.

[Coola Yagami]

If that's true, then I can only imagine what Jeremy Renner's recent public comments and actions over the Hawkeye season 2 thing will do for his reputation at Disney.

I give him credit for doing what he did, but at the same time - I mean Hawkeye season 1 was woke $#!( that no one wanted. Pretty sure they hit Renner in the salary over that trying to get season 02 done knowing they couldn't drop any real coin on it, but needing it for the agenda anyway. Now it sounds like they are going to "venture ahead bravely and boldly" with season 2 featuring only Hailey Steinfeld.

Probably the plan along tbh. Jeremy just helped them fast track it.

[ToTheNines]

I like Hailey Steinfeld and LOVE Kate Bishop (particularly the Matt Fraction take on her), but they really missed the mark (heh) with her in that show. Can’t say I care if they do a season 2 or not.

[Andrew NDB]

I mean Hawkeye season 1 was woke $#!

Was it? I just thought it was really childish and unnecessarily "Cartoony."

[Coola Yagami]

I thought the main issue was that it was a bait and switch where the show was more about Kate than it was Clint.

Back to this movie, it sounds like this is a chance to bring in a new Taskmaster but I fail to see how. A possible goon for Doctor Doom perhaps? Due to villains being constantly killed off, the MCU villains never go for the 'let's bust several villains out of prison to work for me' thing the comic counterparts constantly do.

[IMJ]

Was it? I just thought it was really childish and unnecessarily "Cartoony."

Any content aligned with the "replacement" agenda, especially when conducted in a franchise that commits to it on the norm, is filed under "woke $#!(". You can't have that much arbitrary replacing of white males without agenda. Whether it occasionally aligns with an obscure comic or not.

A far as I'm concerned the only "replacement" stories I've ever seen that were organic, entertaining and "color blind" were Rhodey coming into his own through Iron Man as War Machine and what they generally do with Green Lanterns because that is a true mantle.

Arbitrary race and gender swaps are militant infiltration nonsense. And "next generation" characters are perhaps a bit more easily inserted for narrative, but the patterns there tend to point to the same militant infiltration anyway. Meanwhile, all sorts of people bug up and rejection of woke Silver Surfer while Marvel can't get a real Blade movie off the ground. It's like living in a weird opposite dimension where down is up and up is down and those on Earth with warped minds think it's "stunning and brave".

The good news is that it's curving down and should be met with continued rejection. F race swaps, gender swaps, f the use of the word "Replacement" for hate-clicks in online media. Let it rot. F woke $#!(.

[ToTheNines]

Any content aligned with the "replacement" agenda, especially when conducted in a franchise that commits to it on the norm, is filed under "woke $#!(". You can't have that much arbitrary replacing of white males without agenda. Whether it occasionally aligns with an obscure comic or not.

I guess it’s not impossible to say there was an agenda behind the 2012 Hawkeye book that just got lucky enough to land a good writer and managed to spawn a great story. But I wouldn’t consider the Fraction/Aja run of Hawkeye “obscure” by any definition.

On top of that, MCU Clint was always pretty bland and could certainly stand to be replaced. He didn’t get some grand send off in Endgame so he was kept around to pass his mantle down. And it’s worth mentioning that the 2 original Avengers they’ve kept around are white males (well Hulk is green technically lol).

All that being said, the Hawkeye show did a bad job of adapting the Fraction run and Kate was portrayed as a dopey teenage sidekick rather than the competent adult she’s supposed to be. Not to mention the many other problems with the script/tone/direction.

[Andrew NDB]

How about this one?

KCWYVjwzvfA

[Autbot_Benz]

How about this one?

KCWYVjwzvfA

Doing my best SDP impression nobody care about Ironheart. I don’t get why Feige and co are so obsessed about making her happen.

[Coola Yagami]

Does she even a current comic series? I don't even know where she is currently or if she's on a team or whatever.

[ToTheNines]

How about this one?

KCWYVjwzvfA

Jesus Christmas.

I feel like a crybaby, but Re-Re ruined Wakanda Forever for me. Despite the sad situation with Boseman, I was looking forward to Shuri taking over. I loved her and their dynamic in BP1 (didn’t care for her portrayal on Infinity War).

But yeah I literally couldn’t stand the Ironheart crap. And unfortunately she was so central to the plot, it was hard to ignore.

[IMJ]

I want a Black Panther flick with a guy as regal and great in the role as Boseman, who embodied it totally.

I want a Blade flick bringing the edge to Blade that Snipes brought - true to the character and in many ways enhanced it.

I don't want woke $#@!( copycat characters imprinting themselves over white characters of any kind. It's infiltrative nonsense. It's not "inclusion". It's just an excuse to diminish white males in some kind of "socially acceptable outrage" for placement. Earn your f'n place. Do something original. Not every property is the f'n Power Rangers.

[Galactus]

Any content aligned with the "replacement" agenda, especially when conducted in a franchise that commits to it on the norm, is filed under "woke $#!(". You can't have that much arbitrary replacing of white males without agenda. Whether it occasionally aligns with an obscure comic or not.

You keep dismissing comics with characters and concepts you don't like as "obscure" even when they are popular among comic readers. Bare in mind that Kate Bishop was introduced decades before everyone started losing their minds about "woke". Also for the most part she's not really a replacement. When she was introduced Clint had been dead for a while but when he came back he briefly used the Ronin identity before he decided "it's cool if there is two Hawkeyes". They usually come as duo.

A far as I'm concerned the only "replacement" stories I've ever seen that were organic, entertaining and "color blind" were Rhodey coming into his own through Iron Man as War Machine and what they generally do with Green Lanterns because that is a true mantle.

On the other hand James Rhodes was a replacement. He was literally created to be Iron Man. Tony Stark's alcoholism gets the better of him and he handed off the armor to Rhodey and for the duration of his time in the role Rhodey was the star of the book, heck he was even Iron Man during the original Secret Wars. Even when Stark came back to the field he was actually War Machine. It took some contrived circumstances for them to swap armors. But yeah Rhodey was created to be Iron Man and I can only imagine the uproar if that happened today.

Arbitrary race and gender swaps are militant infiltration nonsense. And "next generation" characters are perhaps a bit more easily inserted for narrative, but the patterns there tend to point to the same militant infiltration anyway. Meanwhile, all sorts of people bug up and rejection of woke Silver Surfer while Marvel can't get a real Blade movie off the ground. It's like living in a weird opposite dimension where down is up and up is down and those on Earth with warped minds think it's "stunning and brave".

The good news is that it's curving down and should be met with continued rejection. F race swaps, gender swaps, f the use of the word "Replacement" for hate-clicks in online media. Let it rot. F woke $#!(.

I imagine your world view is up is down and right is left in most aspects but dude calm down. Characters get replaced all the time. No one cares about Jean Paul Valley or Dick Grayson becoming Batman or Barry Allan or Hal Jordan replacing Jay Garrick or Alan Scott. If they have a black and/or female character in a main role it's not a big deal. You'll survive.

[IMJ]

You keep dismissing comics with characters and concepts you don't like as "obscure" even when they are popular among comic readers. Bare in mind that Kate Bishop was introduced decades before everyone started losing their minds about "woke". Also for the most part she's not really a replacement. When she was introduced Clint had been dead for a while but when he came back he briefly used the Ronin identity before he decided "it's cool if there is two Hawkeyes". They usually come as duo.



On the other hand James Rhodes was a replacement. He was literally created to be Iron Man. Tony Stark's alcoholism gets the better of him and he handed off the armor to Rhodey and for the duration of his time in the role Rhodey was the star of the book, heck he was even Iron Man during the original Secret Wars. Even when Stark came back to the field he was actually War Machine. It took some contrived circumstances for them to swap armors. But yeah Rhodey was created to be Iron Man and I can only imagine the uproar if that happened today.



I imagine your world view is up is down and right is left in most aspects but dude calm down. Characters get replaced all the time. No one cares about Jean Paul Valley or Dick Grayson becoming Batman or Barry Allan or Hal Jordan replacing Jay Garrick or Alan Scott. If they have a black and/or female character in a main role it's not a big deal. You'll survive.

Oh, your back - must have found an op for verbal judo over making real points again. What I imagine is that you are the poster child for who they meant when they said "never argue with an idiot, they will drag you down to their level and beat you with experience".

I only glanced at your reply there - but just above what I'm writing it looks like you are telling me to "calm down"? Says the liberal nut who bugs up at the perceived "rassssss-cizm" and "gay hate" all around him.

My point above stands as written despite your "word play", but of course you can't address it in truth. All you're loaded for is "opposition". But keep fighting the "good fight" -I mean that. Never change. Please - ever.

[XERO]

You realize you both are crashing out over a Marvel movie... right?

[Andrew NDB]

Despite the sad situation with Boseman, I was looking forward to Shuri taking over.

Not me. There was no reason in the world they couldn't have just recast Boseman for T'Challa, like he apparently let it known to his brother that he wanted Marvel to do anyway.

[ToTheNines]

Not me. There was no reason in the world they couldn't have just recast Boseman for T'Challa, like he apparently let it known to his brother that he wanted Marvel to do anyway.

I agree they made the wrong call. I’m just saying I liked Shuri and went in with an open mind, but they **** the bed.

[Andrew NDB]

The movie was too many things. It was "We soooort of want to pass the torch to Shuri" plus "We want to build up Ironheart" and "Namor: The Movie." I don't think any one of those things worked out well but on the other hand, it shouldn't have been any of those 3 things anyway. It should have been nothing less than T'Challa kicking ass and taking names after being blipped for 5 years and reaffirming his leadership. Insert some cool Black Panther villain.

[ToTheNines]

The movie was too many things. It was "We soooort of want to pass the torch to Shuri" plus "We want to build up Ironheart" and "Namor: The Movie." I don't think any one of those things worked out well but on the other hand, it shouldn't have been any of those 3 things anyway. It should have been nothing less than T'Challa kicking ass and taking names after being blipped for 5 years and reaffirming his leadership. Insert some cool Black Panther villain.

Absolutely. If they wanted to do a Shuri movie, it should have taken place during the blip and been her versus M’Baku for the throne.

Would have bought them a lot of time to think about how to proceed with T’Challa.

[Andrew NDB]

Absolutely. If they wanted to do a Shuri movie, it should have taken place during the blip and been her versus M’Baku for the throne.

Would have bought them a lot of time to think about how to proceed with T’Challa.

Absolutely, and I've said that before. They could've just used the second movie as a "Missing Years" thing to explore the power vacuum after T'Challa is blipped and simultaneously as a "grieving" movie they apparently wanted so badly, too, since obviously Wakanda would be grieving T'Challa being blipped for those years. Then, by the time Black Panther 3 comes out (which isn't even on the calendar yet) who would care if there's a new T'Challa actor?

Instead, it was like, "OOOOH! An opportunity to swap out T'Challa even earlier than planned with a woman! GREAT! And no T'Challa gives us some breathing room to do the same with Ironheart for Iron Man in the same movie! WIN WIN!"

[ToTheNines]

Then, by the time Black Panther 3 comes out (which isn't even on the calendar yet) who would care if there's a new T'Challa actor?

Precisely. And if those LEAKED concept art pieces are to be believed, they’re already doing something like this via multiverse shenanigans.

[IMJ]

You realize you both are crashing out over a Marvel movie... right?

Nah man, sorry.

-I make my points about about real "inclusion," and compare and contrast "inclusion vs woke" - supported by reason and examples of behavior.
-My words are valid and on-point and can conform to "inclusion" without actually rejecting anyone.

-Galactus flings mud, relies on verbal judo, phantom-connections of behavior, and use of social stigma.
-Galactus' words are militant, offensive and only conform to his worldviews which support rejection of typical white male structures in support of his own life-angry system of thought.

"Galactus". Is. The. Stereotypical. Evil.

Galactus and those operating like him are angry, and feel that they can attack normalcy. That's called a sociopath. And they use manipulations and social-stigma to do it. And when people like me show up and say "nooooo" they can't handle that a well-adjusted person rejects their life-angry-ideology and his world comes crumbling down. And we are left with a blubbering clown who will wait forever to "get you" because they had to take another "L" about their behavior from yet another "normal white guy".

I can only imagine "Galactus" keyboard rage.

"Galactus". Is The Evil. And he will tell you that I'm the evil with his best example being "istaphobe" used loosely, hoping that someone else climbs on board. Just like every other peasant-thinker in history.

Don't worry "Galactus" You POS. You'll "be okay".

Then, by the time Black Panther 3 comes out (which isn't even on the calendar yet) who would care if there's a new T'Challa actor?

Precisely. And if those LEAKED concept art pieces are to be believed, they’re already doing something like this via multiverse shenanigans.

All they really have to do is some dialog that T'Challa died at 45 years old and introduce an actor maybe 25 years old as the new Panther. Then some dialog that "T'Challa son he kept private for reasons xyz"

Going to be authentically hard to get someone has captivating as Bosemen though.

[Coola Yagami]

Nah man, sorry.

-I make my points about about real "inclusion," and compare and contrast "inclusion vs woke" - supported by reason and examples of behavior.
-My words are valid and on-point and can conform to "inclusion" without actually rejecting anyone.

-Galactus flings mud, relies on verbal judo, phantom-connections of behavior, and use of social stigma.
-Galactus' words are militant, offensive and only conform to his worldviews which support rejection of typical white male structures in support of his own life-angry system of thought.

"Galactus". Is. The. Stereotypical. Evil.

Galactus and those operating like him are angry, and feel that they can attack normalcy. That's called a sociopath. And they use manipulations and social-stigma to do it. And when people like me show up and say "nooooo" they can't handle that a well-adjusted person rejects their life-angry-ideology and his world comes crumbling down. And we are left with a blubbering clown who will wait forever to "get you" because they had to take another "L" about their behavior from yet another "normal white guy".

I can only imagine "Galactus" keyboard rage.

"Galactus". Is The Evil. And he will tell you that I'm the evil with his best example being "istaphobe" used loosely, hoping that someone else climbs on board. Just like every other peasant-thinker in history.

Don't worry "Galactus" You POS. You'll "be okay".





All they really have to do is some dialog that T'Challa died at 45 years old and introduce an actor maybe 25 years old as the new Panther. Then some dialog that "T'Challa son he kept private for reasons xyz"

Going to be authentically hard to get someone has captivating as Bosemen though.

You ok man? I don't remember you sounding so... angry in your posts. Has the woke finally broken you?

[Coola Yagami]

They could've just used the second movie as a "Missing Years" thing to explore the power vacuum after T'Challa is blipped and simultaneously as a "grieving" movie they apparently wanted so badly, too, since obviously Wakanda would be grieving T'Challa being blipped for those years. Then, by the time Black Panther 3 comes out (which isn't even on the calendar yet) who would care if there's a new T'Challa actor?



This would have been the better option if they were too scared/stubborn to react T'Challa right away.

[IMJ]

You ok man? I don't remember you sounding so... angry in your posts. Has the woke finally broken you?

:lol::lol::lol:

"You good man? You GOOD?"

[XERO]

You ok man? I don't remember you sounding so... angry in your posts. Has the woke finally broken you?

I can only imagine how the Star Wars fandom would be.

Anywho... I enjoyed the movie, and it was definitely one of the better ones in a while. My only gripe:

I wasn't expecting Taskmaster to die that quickly. She was pretty much the bane of Natasha's trauma, the "red in her ledger" as she would've put it. So to see her get snuffed out like that, it just caught me off guard and left a bad taste in my mouth. To be fair, she got killed by Ghost, so at least that was a workaround against her eidetic memory.

Other than that, it was a blast. Surprisingly, Walker was probably my favorite character next to Yelena. Reminded me of how they made Rick Flag a lovable assh*le in the second Suicide Squad movie.

[ToTheNines]

I’m imagining IMJ is arguing with the actual Devourer of Worlds and can’t stop laughing

To bring us back to Thunderbolts, but also keep it political: the movie reveals Bucky represents a district in Brooklyn… which confirms he’s a damn dirty Democrat! Winter Soldier on the Lolita Express flight logs?

[Coola Yagami]

I’m imagining IMJ is arguing with the actual Devourer of Worlds and can’t stop laughing

To bring us back to Thunderbolts, but also keep it political: the movie reveals Bucky represents a district in Brooklyn… which confirms he’s a damn dirty Democrat! Winter Soldier on the Lolita Express flight logs?

At his age any woman he looks at is a lolita.

[oldmanwinters]

Saw it last night. I suppose it was ok.

My big problem was that I couldn't remember the names of almost any character in the film, even after having all the previous movies under my belt. And even as the film played out, I still wasn't able to keep anybody's name straight in my mind, except for Bucky Barnes and maybe "Elaine from Seinfeld really insists upon that DE-Fontaine surname." I never got around to seeing Falcon & Winter Soldier (or any of the MCU Disney+ shows) so even though I knew "that's the guy who plays U.S. Agent\We-have-Captain-America-at-Home or something" (and in my defense, even the in-movie characters have to correct each other on getting his personal name right). I recognized the characters from the Black Widow movie, but this movie proved I didn't bother to learn their names the first time and this movie expected me to have that down, so I guess I failed that test. I was trying to remember if the lady with the messed up face was actually called "Taskmaster" or not but as quickly as I was working through that, the movie convinced me that didn't matter. The "Ghost" lady had me confused if she was a character from a later season of "Agents of SHIELD" (I think somebody called her a SHIELD reject?) but eventually it occurred to me that she was probably the villain I had forgotten about from the 2nd Ant-Man movie. The main character of the movie is always just "White Widow" in my brain.

It's weird because I really enjoy "USSR Captain America" but even with him I didn't remember his super hero name and I still don't remember his in-universe personal name.

"Bob" was pretty good. I don't know his Marvel comic history. Felt like his character was being built-up like something out of Watchmen (Ozymandias?) or Homelander from "The Boys". Was also thinking once the earliest version of Superman goes Public Domain, that's prime fodder for Marvel to do their own legally acceptable in-universe stand-in. I suppose I found him a more interesting foil as "Sentry" than I did as "Void," but the latter had some neat effects.

As far as the plot, it felt like it took forever to get rolling. After seeing the Black Widow movie, I guess I'm not really interested in characters slowly working through their "Red Room" emotional trauma and survivor's guilt.

Is it weird that I found the most interesting part of the film to be the Credits. And not even so much the post-credits sequences but the visual supplements that played under the End Credits? Like... maybe THAT's the movie I actually wanted to see instead of just read magazine headlines. I haven't been that interested in a montage of newspaper clippings since the Iron Man movies.

And it's so weird to me that a movie titled "Thunderbolts" has no in-universe connection with General "Thunderbolt" Ross, despite the fact that the MCU movie immediately prior to this focused heavily upon Ross's character arc and even had a subplot of him wanting to restart the Avengers. I guess this movie wanted to break tradition so much they worked in a backstory about a kid's soccer team that I didn't catch as relevant until over half-way through the movie.

As far as the Tower formerly known as Avengers Tower, formerly known as Stark Tower, I only realized it was in this movie when Elaine from Seinfeld made the comment about all the previous big battles that happened there, but I don't know if the movie ever had a clear exterior establishing shot of the tower that would make it super clear it is the same place. Was... Elaine from Seinfeld the one who bought it in "Spider-man: Homecoming" or has it changed hands a few times since then? I think I appreciated the T-Bolts having their own "Battle of New York" moment but thought they should have copied the rotating shot of everybody back-to-back if the movie was trying to make that obvious (even had an obvious call-back to it with the museum display of the leftover Chitauri technology).

My favorite line of the movie is probably when "White Widow" said "Do we all just punch and shoot stuff?" or something like that.

MCU New York City is getting really crowed with super-heroes, it seems.

[IMJ]

I’m imagining IMJ is arguing with the actual Devourer of Worlds and can’t stop laughing

To bring us back to Thunderbolts, but also keep it political: the movie reveals Bucky represents a district in Brooklyn… which confirms he’s a damn dirty Democrat! Winter Soldier on the Lolita Express flight logs?

:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol: omfg that was hysterical! Looking up from street level and like... stabbing my pointer finger in the air at this giant purple guy... Like Joe Pesci yelling at basically anyone in "Casino".

My big problem was that I couldn't remember the names of almost any character in the film

That was my buddy's exact feeling about Rogue One. Except that was a solid flick in most ways.

[Coola Yagami]

maybe "Elaine from Seinfeld really insists upon that DE-Fontaine surname."

So THAT'S where I remember her from. I knew she looked a bit familiar.

[Andrew NDB]

And it's so weird to me that a movie titled "Thunderbolts" has no in-universe connection with General "Thunderbolt" Ross, despite the fact that the MCU movie immediately prior to this focused heavily upon Ross's character arc and even had a subplot of him wanting to restart the Avengers.

It's very strange. I mean, I never even questioned that a moment. The whole big push with the Thunderbolt Ross push in Captain America 4 right before this, the name "Thunderbolts," the fact that in at least one iteration in the comics that's how they get named, etc.. I thought the whole thing would be him somehow pulling strings from the Raft with Elaine from Seinfeld executing those plans, then maybe a breakout at some point during the movie or he simply gets released.

No Ross? No Baron Zemo? Now they're renaming it "New Avengers" in marketing? It's just such a odd duck overall. Was the idea/hope that the movie would go out there as "Thunderbolts," become a critical darling for mental health people, and then it would "Earn" the name "New Avengers" and hopefully get a renewed push? It kind of seems like that was the plan.

Also, for all the talk about it doing better than Captain America 4... it... isn't? Captain America 4's opening weekend was 88 million and Thunderbolts was only 74. It's pacing to end up exactly where Captain America 4 ended up or a little behind that, and it had -- apparently -- the exact same budget.

[oldmanwinters]

Now they're renaming it "New Avengers" in marketing? It's just such a odd duck overall. Was the idea/hope that the movie would go out there as "Thunderbolts," become a critical darling for mental health people, and then it would "Earn" the name "New Avengers" and hopefully get a renewed push? It kind of seems like that was the plan.

I'd largely avoided spoilers before seeing it, so this is first I'd heard they were trying to leverage that pre-credits reveal as a marketing push. Is there a plan this movie will get the "Ghostbusters (2016) > Ghostbusters: Answer the Call' treatment and retro-actively be known as "Thunderbolts: The New Avengers?"

My brain's takeaway was "I didn't hate Captain America 4" and "I didn't love Thunderbolts" but when comparing the two, I think I do prefer Thunderbolts overall. Captain America 4 made me mad for being a sequel to "The Incredible Hulk" but not working Bruce Banner/Hulk into it at all. And now Thunderbolts also makes me question intentional scrubbing of possible Hulk franchise lore.

[Andrew NDB]

I think we're just supposed to retroactively call the movie "New Avengers." That's it.

wbo7d5KiCfY

[oldmanwinters]

I think we're just supposed to retroactively call the movie "New Avengers." That's it.


Well, good luck to 'em on that.

I never paid attention to the title too much, but I guess that's why all the showtimes list it as Thunderbolts* with a silly little asterisk that I now find overly insistent.

[IMJ]

I'm sure the flailing Marvel offices at Disney thought the whole "Thunderbolts* New Avengers" thing was absolute stunning and brave brilliance.

There are probably 15 producers and 100 interns felating themselves over it right now while Kevin Feige pulls one off in a private office to gender swapped Taskmaster and Ghost.

[oldmanwinters]

I'm probably overthinking this but... does the particular choice of Avengers theme music that plays just as the team receives their new name hold any symbolic meaning. It's the "strings" opening of the main Avengers theme, but I don't remember if the score ever hits the iconic "Da-Dum-Da-Duuuumm..." notes or if it just continues with the strings portion. I ask because that was the score choice (I think it was called "Help Arrives (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq42pd9JS8U)") they made for Captain America's entrance 40 minutes into Avengers Endgame when he was hiding out with Falcon and Widow but came to the rescue of Wanda and Vision. At that point, Cap's team was the Exiled Avengers, so does playing that again at the end of Thunderbolts* suggest they are the TRUE Avengers or the Name-Only Avengers?

[Coola Yagami]

I'm probably overthinking this but... does the particular choice of Avengers theme music that plays just as the team receives their new name hold any symbolic meaning. It's the "strings" opening of the main Avengers theme, but I don't remember if the score ever hits the iconic "Da-Dum-Da-Duuuumm..." notes or if it just continues with the strings portion. I ask because that was the score choice (I think it was called "Help Arrives (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qq42pd9JS8U)") they made for Captain America's entrance 40 minutes into Avengers Endgame when he was hiding out with Falcon and Widow but came to the rescue of Wanda and Vision. At that point, Cap's team was the Exiled Avengers, so does playing that again at the end of Thunderbolts* suggest they are the TRUE Avengers or the Name-Only Avengers?

Good attention to detail if that's true. But the only ones with powers are Ghost and Sentry. I'm assuming Sam's team will be all the super powered folk.

[Andrew NDB]

Good attention to detail if that's true. But the only ones with powers are Ghost and Sentry.

US Agent took the superserum... he's got powers. Black Widow's dad, too, I'm pretty sure I remember.

I'm assuming Sam's team will be all the super powered folk.

Presumably both teams will be on a recruitment drive after this. And Sam himself doesn't have any powers.

Realistically Sam's team could have Hulk, Thor, Ant-Man, Wasp and prooobably any GotG? Captain Marvel, too.

Shang-Chi, maybe some Eternals, She-Hulk, unclear. But yeah, maybe Sam's team gets all the REALLY super-powered people, and the New Avengers is MOSTLY street level. Like, we could even get Punisher and Daredevil on there.

[oldmanwinters]

Good attention to detail if that's true. But the only ones with powers are Ghost and Sentry. I'm assuming Sam's team will be all the super powered folk.

US Agent took the superserum... he's got powers. Black Widow's dad, too, I'm pretty sure I remember.


Yeah, there are at least three peeps on AvengerZ with some variant of Super Soldier serum: Bucky Barnes (regular “Hydra” dose), Red Guardian (Soviet Union variant… yet, “we are the same”), and John Wall…er…Walker? (Whatever, I never saw Falcon & Winter Soldier). Can’t remember if the Red Room Widows got chemical help or not.

Ironic that the Captain America also known as Sam Wilson refused to get the booster.

[IMJ]

I see a lot on social media indicating that people are confused about hating U.S.Agent in Falcon and the Winter Soldier but his portrayal as "likeable" in the Thunderbolts.

That kind of headscratching over U.S.Agent in a movie that makes The-Ghost-Not-Ghost a protagonist cracks me up.

[ToTheNines]

I liked his costume better here, for sure. Which makes sense with TV vs. movie budget.

But yeah seems pretty simple: he was an antagonist on D+ and a protagonist in Thunderbolts, so he was purposefully portrayed as more sympathetic and likable in the latter.

[oldmanwinters]

I see a lot on social media indicating that people are confused about hating U.S.Agent in Falcon and the Winter Soldier but his portrayal as "likeable" in the Thunderbolts.

That kind of headscratching over U.S.Agent in a movie that makes The-Ghost-Not-Ghost a protagonist cracks me up.



But yeah seems pretty simple: he was an antagonist on D+ and a protagonist in Thunderbolts, so he was purposefully portrayed as more sympathetic and likable in the latter.

Most people like to root for an "underdog" but like to hate on somebody who looks like they were "born on third base."

I think the bigger casting question is "Why was Taskmaster even featured in the marketing campaign?"

Exactly how much bad blood is there between US Agent and Winter Soldier?

[ToTheNines]

Very little, if any.

You just reminded me how much I hated that stupid scene that tried to make Walker seem like some vile bastard for killing that “unarmed” terrorist. Bleh.

Steve and Sam killed PLENTY of people on screen without trying to apprehend or disarm them first.

[IMJ]

Very little, if any.

You just reminded me how much I hated that stupid scene that tried to make Walker seem like some vile bastard for killing that “unarmed” terrorist. Bleh.

Steve and Sam killed PLENTY of people on screen without trying to apprehend or disarm them first.

Agreed, but the signal for the "outrage" is the pause. It's easier for your average thinker to digest because of the pause....

For example, Sam kills a guy in fast, repetitive combat and he's a "brave black man". Whereas, John Walker kills a guy after a brutal battle, but before the final blow the opponent is down against a water fountain with little energy left, and because of that positioning Walker is the symbol of 'white rage and tyranny."

It is a telegraphed story-telling device although I think in that scene they telegraphed more "bloodlust" than they did "military warrior duty". All done during a time where George Floyd was the talk of the town. Similar to Ray Winston's caricature of a villain in Black Widow during the "Me Too" witchunts. They call it "relevancy". The rest of us call it "mania".

[oldmanwinters]

Speaking of "relevancy"...

So I'm hearing in one original concept for this movie, Wall...er....Walker was gonna be the sub-heel of this movie and turn into the MCU Red Hulk or maybe they were gonna call him "A-Bomb" and that was gonna come about because Elaine from Seinfeld had persuaded him that his Super Soldier serum was breaking down and that he had to keep taking booster shots in order to stay active (and maybe alive). And eventually, those shots allowed Elaine to trigger him into the big monster. Heh... just science fiction, am I right?

But then the T-Bolts might have been able to talk him down with therapy or group hugs or something?

Apparently, that idea didn't sound exciting enough and when they added Bob into the story, it got more interesting.

I wonder at what point that original plot conception moved over to "Brave New World" and why they decided they liked US Agent better for a stable but redeemed character.

[Coola Yagami]

Other things were Taskmaster having a bigger role, a draft where the whole movie took place in the vault, and one where Black Widow was gonna have a cameo in the void.

[ToTheNines]

Also, for all the talk about it doing better than Captain America 4... it... isn't? Captain America 4's opening weekend was 88 million and Thunderbolts was only 74. It's pacing to end up exactly where Captain America 4 ended up or a little behind that, and it had -- apparently -- the exact same budget.

They’re still REALLY pushing it. I’m still getting ads on Reddit acting like it’s some cultural phenomenon, and my wife uses Pandora to play Cocomelon for the kid and there’s several ads a day on that too as recently as this past weekend.

Cap 4 did not get the same treatment. Strange.

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, and its still looking to end up notably performing under Captain America 4.

I just saw it. I generally liked it, way better than Captain America 4. If there was reshoots and such, I couldn't tell. It was well put together and crafted. It's a little bit weird, though, that we've literally spent years waiting to see DeFontaine's plans and team come together only for her to try and kill them all in the first 5 minutes. Though I think I dig where they're going with this after the ending. If anything I'd say my only complaint would be that it takes a long time for it all to get moving. We spend a lot of time in the "Vault" and then it's almost time for the ending in New York. And for all the talk of that we finally see the Avengers/Stark Tower new owners/repurposed... they barely touch on that. And will they even be able to use it after this movie? I was really hoping this would be the OsCorp tower, with the MCU version of Norman Osborne.

And Black Widow absolutely should have showed up in the Void. Guaranteed it was originally going to be Yelena and ScarJo in there, not Yelena and some random chick we've never heard of. I wonder if they even tried to reach out to Scarlet? The movie IS basically Black Widow 1.5... with friends.

I would have preferred if they'd integrated General Ross as the one to name them.

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, and its still looking to end up notably performing under Captain America 4.

I just saw it. I generally liked it, way better than Captain America 4. If there was reshoots and such, I couldn't tell. It was well put together and crafted. It's a little bit weird, though, that we've literally spent years waiting to see DeFontaine's plans and team come together only for her to try and kill them all in the first 5 minutes. Though I think I dig where they're going with this after the ending. If anything I'd say my only complaint would be that it takes a long time for it all to get moving. We spend a lot of time in the "Vault" and then it's almost time for the ending in New York. And for all the talk of that we finally see the Avengers/Stark Tower new owners/repurposed... they barely touch on that. And will they even be able to use it after this movie? I was really hoping this would be the OsCorp tower, with the MCU version of Norman Osborne.

And Black Widow absolutely should have showed up in the Void. Guaranteed it was originally going to be Yelena and ScarJo in there, not Yelena and some random chick we've never heard of. I wonder if they even tried to reach out to Scarlet? The movie IS basically Black Widow 1.5... with friends.

I would have preferred if they'd integrated General Ross as the one to name them.

I was enjoying the character banter but was secretly hoping the entire movie wasn't just about them trying to escape the Vault. Apparently that was the plan for one of the earlier scripts.

As for DeFontaine she tried and failed with the Sentry project, and decided to go the superhero team route ad Plan B. Once she found out she actually got a living Sentry subject, it was time to scrap the back up plan and go back to the Plan A.

[Andrew NDB]

I was enjoying the character banter but was secretly hoping the entire movie wasn't just about them trying to escape the Vault.

Yeah, I was looking at my watch and an hour in I think they're still like in the process of leaving the Vault or on the road still. I wasn't not having a good time but I was thinking there'd be more "movie" to it. As it stands, Yelena is on the building that she jumps off of in the opening scene, then we're at the Vault or in the process of escaping from it/running from the soldiers there for most of the movie, then a little bit of NYC streets and the inside of Stark Tower and it's over. You know what I mean?

[Andrew NDB]

Yeah, yikes. It seems that it's completely flatlined at 186 million domestic and 190 internationally. Compared to Captain America at 200 million domestic and 213 internationally. Their little "New Avengers" gimmick didn't do a single thing.

Honestly, that's too bad. This deserved to perform at least marginally better than Captain America 4.

[ranger_scout]

Variety wrote an article about the film's disappointing box office numbers. It will need to gross $425 million to break even.

https://variety.com/2025/film/box-office/thunderbolts-lost-millions-box-office-marvel-next-1236427994/

[ToTheNines]

Yikes

https://i.imgur.com/43CNukg.jpeg

[CyberCubed]

I mean it's a movie about a bunch of no-name heroes to the general public. I really only care about Bucky and even then he's not a major draw. I never understood why they thought giving D-tier heroes their own movie was a good thing.

Yelena is also kinda ugly. She has that greasy/slimy Ukraine/Russian look to her, her actress is really fat and I hate the eyeliner and hair. She looks really washed up. Honestly she's a turn off whenever she's on-screen.

[ToTheNines]

You think Florence Pugh is ugly? Still not beating the pedo allegations, I see…

[Coola Yagami]

I mean it's a movie about a bunch of no-name heroes to the general public. I really only care about Bucky and even then he's not a major draw. I never understood why they thought giving D-tier heroes their own movie was a good thing.

Yelena is also kinda ugly. She has that greasy/slimy Ukraine/Russian look to her, her actress is really fat and I hate the eyeliner and hair. She looks really washed up. Honestly she's a turn off whenever she's on-screen.

Wtf??? Florence is cute, and apparently someone got the memo in Thunderbolts and had her run around in a tighter outfit that showcases that nice round ass of hers.

[Andrew NDB]

Florence is definitely pretty. You can also see a lot of her in that Netflix movie about Robert the Bruce. :)