"The Woman King"

[Andrew NDB]

It comes out in September.

Thoughts? Predictions?

3RDaPV_rJ1Y

[joe-eyeball]

I predict it’s going to break all kinds of box office records:D

[TigerClaw]

It comes out in September.

Thoughts? Predictions?

3RDaPV_rJ1Y
They were the main inspiration for the Dora Milaje in the MCU.

[IMJ]

They were the main inspiration for the Dora Milaje in the MCU.

I can see that....

Looks like an interesting flick.

[Coola Yagami]

Something something woke, something something misogyny.

[IMJ]

Something something woke, something something misogyny.

See I don't view this flick as woke $#!(. Looks like cultural-historical to me. Nothing wrong with that. But see that's an intellectual evaluation on my part that the liberal P'sOS on this forum won't understand. Because they don't understand reality outside of their life-angry perceptions.

Now with that said, I'm sure this movie was pumped out as a component of woke culture which is typical, but if this movie has historical footing and it found it's appeal to be told now, then that's cool. It looks like calling this movie woke would be like calling "Shaka Zulu" from the 80's woke. It wasn't. It was a historical flick the likes of "Braveheart" and so on.

And so, is this movie maybe opportunistic of current times? Yeah, absolutely!? But woke $#!(-flick? Eh I don't put this there. I'd possibly give this a Netflix watch or something. Just because a movie is about "black people" doesn't mean it's woke $#!(. Being woke $#!( is more about the mentality, the agenda, the deconstruction of others for "complaint culture". I don't see that here.

But again, my position on this would be too intellectual and grounded in truth for the "Robert Fiduciary's", "IndigoEarths", "MsDuckling" and the rest of the left liberal brain trust of loud mouths here to actually grasp.

[Coola Yagami]

See I don't view this flick as woke $#!(. Looks like cultural-historical to me. Nothing wrong with that. But see that's an intellectual evaluation on my part that the liberal P'sOS on this forum won't understand. Because they don't understand reality outside of their life-angry perceptions.

Now with that said, I'm sure this movie was pumped out as a component of woke culture which is typical, but if this movie has historical footing and it found it's appeal to be told now, then that's cool. It looks like calling this movie woke would be like calling "Shaka Zulu" from the 80's woke. It wasn't. It was a historical flick the likes of "Braveheart" and so on.

And so, is this movie maybe opportunistic of current times? Yeah, absolutely!? But woke $#!(-flick? Eh I don't put this there. I'd possibly give this a Netflix watch or something. Just because a movie is about "black people" doesn't mean it's woke $#!(. Being woke $#!( is more about the mentality, the agenda, the deconstruction of others for "complaint culture". I don't see that here.

But again, my position on this would be too intellectual and grounded in truth for the "Robert Fiduciary's", "IndigoEarths", "MsDuckling" and the rest of the left liberal brain trust of loud mouths here to actually grasp.

I guess we'll see. But something tells me all the marketing is gonna be treat this like the movie you simply MUST see unless you're racist rather than something cultural historic. And don't forget the huge influx of normie virtue signalling you're gonna see that would make Wakanda Forever feel like it was a passing fad that lasted a weekend.

[IMJ]

I guess we'll see. But something tells me all the marketing is gonna be treat this like the movie you simply MUST see unless you're racist rather than something cultural historic. And don't forget the huge influx of normie virtue signalling you're gonna see that would make Wakanda Forever feel like it was a passing fad that lasted a weekend.

Oh I absolutely agree with that point. I don't view this movie as woke $#!(, but yes the societal cultural-response around it from the manipulators will be a woke $#!( shame fest. For sure.

[Andrew NDB]

Like IMJ said, it was definitely greenlit as a component of woke culture, which is the only bothersome aspect. Probably it received funding by the same virtue as all of these all-female kicking male ass movies that have been being pumped out over the past few years (failures, all of them, and there has been many).

[ZariusTwo]

So this isn't that awful episode of Battlestar Galactica 2003:P

[DarkFell]

It doesn't seem like my thing. Awesome if it grabs a crowd, but it doesn't grab me.

[AquaParade]

This looks awesome. I’ll check it out.

[Andrew NDB]

So it's been out 2 weeks and it has limped to a 36 million box office against a 50 million dollar budget... yet articles left and right are insisting the movie is "soaring."

[Coola Yagami]

The fact that movie is based on slavers that historically betrayed and sold their own race as slaves did get a rise out of more educated black people that don't just swoop onto consume the latest fad.

The movie peeps have used the old 'if you don't watch this you're racist' crap too.

Sounds like a horrible movie all around. Revisionist history that's even worse than Pocahontas.

[joe-eyeball]

It’s audience score on rotten tomatoes is at 99%? What a bunch of manipulative nonsense! That’s higher than The Godfather, The Shawshank Redemption, and Spider-Man Far From Home! Just to name a few

[IMJ]

It’s audience score on rotten tomatoes is at 99%? What a bunch of manipulative nonsense! That’s higher than The Godfather, The Shawshank Redemption, and Spider-Man Far From Home! Just to name a few

Maybe mostly black people went and saw it, thought it was awesome and reviewed it and that's what you get on the review aggregator.

I still think it looks like a solid flick, but I'll give it a paid-click on something like Netflix. Not much is an honest theater draw for me these days.

Back in the days of "let's just go see a movie", I'd have gone to this one.

[Andrew NDB]

If I had to guess, I'd imagine mostly it was white women seeing it. But that's just my feeling and not backed up by anything.

[IMJ]

If I had to guess, I'd imagine mostly it was white women seeing it. But that's just my feeling and not backed up by anything.

:lol:
I mean.... did I state the obvious or something? :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

:lol:
I mean.... did I state the obvious or something? :lol:

No, I mean I really believe white women are probably the ones mostly filling the seats. Ridden with guilt. And then mostly black dudes who get dragged to it by their girlfriends/wives. Like, none of my black friends have even made a whisper about it... but conversely, all of the white chicks that formerly had the "Stay Home! It could save a life!" and "BLM" type Facebook avatars, they're the ones that can't wait to tell everyone how badly they want to see it.

[joe-eyeball]

No, I mean I really believe white women are probably the ones mostly filling the seats. Ridden with guilt. And then mostly black dudes who get dragged to it by their girlfriends/wives. Like, none of my black friends have even made a whisper about it... but conversely, all of the white chicks that formerly had the "Stay Home! It could save a life!" and "BLM" type Facebook avatars, they're the ones that can't wait to tell everyone how badly they want to see it.

Yes these are same people that when the Atlanta Braves are playing they like to flock to twitter to tell the world how much they hate the tomahawk chop and want to punch all the braves fans in the face! It’s hilarious that it’s mostly middle aged white women that are offended!:tlol:

[Cowabung-Gal]

The title itself is an oxymoron.

[Andrew NDB]

So it's a flop and lost money. It only pulled 60 million domestically and 15 overseas. Also, September box office numbers in general plunge to worst level in 25 years:

https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/worry-darling-september-box-office-130000167.html

You mean nobody wanted to see Woman King, Don't Worry Darling, and Bros?

[oldmanwinters]

I hear it's based on a true story, but... all the promotional stuff feels very "contemporary."

Also, poor timing coming out around the same time as the super-female charged Wakanda Forever.

[IMJ]

You mean nobody wanted to see Woman King, Don't Worry Darling, and Bros?

Hollywood and the woke zombies will take away from this that the economy is bad and that their audiences of millions for this content was also scared off by hundreds of thousands of racists and ummmm.... what are they called again? "The misogynists"? Yeah... them.

[AquaParade]

Damn racist economy.

[Vegita-San]

Damn racist economy.

should be on a tshirt

[Roseangelo]

I still don't feel motivated to go to a theater, and I expect a lot of people are the same. Gonna be some hard times for movies. Even the good ones.

[Last Ronin]

It's gotten so bad that black rich people are buying out theaters just to make it profitable smh.

[TigerClaw]

I hear it's based on a true story, but... all the promotional stuff feels very "contemporary."

Also, poor timing coming out around the same time as the super-female charged Wakanda Forever.
It is, But some people didn't see it, Because the people the movie is about were involved in some slave trades at the time.

They didn't like the idea of the movie glamorizing a group of people that sell out there own people.

[IMJ]

It is, But some people didn't see it, Because the people the movie is about were involved in some slave trades at the time.

They didn't like the idea of the movie glamorizing a group of people that sell out there own people.

Why didn't those virtuous people also call out Viola Davis for cancellation like they do for anything else they pass judgement on?

[Leo656]

I still don't feel motivated to go to a theater, and I expect a lot of people are the same. Gonna be some hard times for movies. Even the good ones.

I was gonna say, nobody's gone out and paid to see any movie that wasn't dinosaurs or giant robots or super-heroes for almost a decade, why focus only on the "agenda-driven" ones that underperform? It's just a fact that people no longer want to pay money for any movie that isn't a CGI-fest, period. If a movie isn't a CGI-fest, it will flop financially, unless it's made on a shoestring budget. End of. Only horror movies make money outside of the CGI-fest stuff because horror movies are made for no money and people expect them to be terrible so they go see them in spite of bad reviews, a luxury other types of movies do not have.

I personally don't care about any of these movies but Jesus Christ, people sure love to spend all their time "fighting agendas" and raging against said agendas and celebrating when said agendas fail. Who cares this much? It ain't healthy, man, go read a book. Who the f*ck tracks the Ins and Outs of a movie they themselves will never see, just to publicly dance a jig when it fails? You shouldn't even have ANY emotional investment whatsoever, at that point. Especially not to do it with MULTIPLE movies at a time. Even the people who get paid to do that, like the YouTube idiots, ought to just reevaluate their life choices entirely because it's just pointless.

The only reason I even know these movies exist, is because I see so many people cheering that they failed, because they "deserve" to fail for having the audacity to feature gay and black people. :roll:

Like, we get it, some of you don't like gay people and your acceptance of minorities is also case-by-case. Let them have their thing, and let it all play out Over There, it affects You not one bit. Whether it succeeds OR fails should have no impact on you at all, because You Are Not The Audience. The only reason to even care, especially out loud, is some certified "I mean, I'm not a bigot, BUT..." kinda sh*t.

You notice I don't repeatedly and outspokenly celebrate or cheerlead for MCU movies to fail financially. Reason is simple: I don't like them, and I'll never watch them. Therefore, their success OR failure ain't got sh*t to do with me at all. Likewise, if you're a straight white person, why so happy when movies aimed at non-straight, non-white people underperform? What's it got to do with you?

"It's totally not racism or homophobia, I'm just a really big fan of The Business!"

:lol: Right. Whatever helps people sleep I guess.

[TigerClaw]

Why didn't those virtuous people also call out Viola Davis for cancellation like they do for anything else they pass judgement on?
There was a boycott of the movie at the time.
https://michiganchronicle.com/2022/10/08/behind-the-woman-king-controversy/

[Coola Yagami]

Playing Devil's Advocate here though...

The Woman King was based on a true story about slave traders that sold out their own kind, but in the movie they're the heroes fighting against slavery. Pretty much the Pocahontas situation where rape turned into a romance movie.

When first announced, it was pretty much the next Black Panther in terms of woke celebration. When smarter folks that knew their history looked into the real story and said 'hey wait a minute......' it fell apart from there.

The movie also had a very strong 'watch this movie or you're a racist' tone as most every article covering this or people behind the film kept tweeting that sort of thing. That always turns people off. But the biggest irony was that this time it was a lot of black people, the target audience, that refused to see this movie. I mean this time it was black people themselves doing the #boycottTheWomanKing hashtag.

As for Bros, right off the bat a lot of gay people were turned off by the super overly flaming 'all gays are manwhores' stereotypes and didn't go see it. Then the actor from the film started tweeting 'go watch this movie unless you're a homophobic bigot', and when the movie flopped, he started blaming straight people. Oh and to top it off, a lot of the woke gay people posted all over their socials that they wanted to see it, but were lazy to and wish it was just on Netflix or something. Virtue signaling, likes and retweets don't equal actual paid tickets, go figure. They like to virtue signal, but they never put their money where their mouth is.

Also the movie was super duper gay made by gays for gays. Sure, straight people can go see it too, but it was obviously a 'for the gays mostly' movie. The guy shouldn't act surprised that straight people didn't go to watch it.

I got a few gay folks in my family, one of them loved the movie, even thought they pointed out some of the over-exaggeration was annoying. But then after seeing the main actor whine like a little bitch online that his movie flopped, he started having second thoughts. I told him, 'eh if you liked the movie, you liked it, don't let that lil bitch ruin it for you, separate art from the artist if you think you can.'

Also the general consensus from what I hear is that the main actor was nowhere hot enough to be the star of the movie or be portraying the manwhore type cause 'I wouldn't sleep with him'. I guess it would be like a casting a romantic comedy about an overly desirable and overly promiscuous woman, but have her be played by Melissa McCarthy, but you know, playing it straight, as if she was superhot and bangable.

But anyways back to the point, this is a case where both movies failed their targeted audience (black people hated The Woman King, gays hated Bros) but they're blaming their non-existent audience that wasn't gonna watch anyway (people turned off by 'this isn't for you YOU but watch anyways or else you're racist/homophobic).

It'll take forever for woke Hollywood to learn their lesson. As long as they have their scapegoats ready more movies like this will continue to be made.

[Prowler]

I haven't been to the cinema since 2012. Which was when I went to watch The Hobbit movie.

In this streaming/digital era we're currently living, it's just easier and more convenient to watch everything at home.

Not that I've ever been much of a cinema goer anyway. I could probably name every single movie I've seen at the cinema in my lifetime. I'm not even sure if the number reaches 20.

I personally always felt the cinema was for special occasions and movies that you just knew were going to be epic. Like The Lord of the Rings, for example. And when I was a kid, obviously I enjoyed to watch animated Pixar films on the big screen.

There's movies that are enjoyable to watch on a weekend afternoon on TV if they happen to be on, but they're not the type of movies I'd pay to go see at the cinema.

[Coola Yagami]

I'm gonna go hit up Smile tomorrow and check it out. I just want to go out and about and I miss going to the movies and that one is the only movie I care enough about to go see.

[Leo656]

Coola: What's it got to do with You or I?

What would a hypothetical new Big Bird movie have to do with You or I? Would the fact that you loved Big Bird at age 3 mean you are somehow NOT a goober for obsessing over it at age 40 when it has nothing to do with you at all?

It's just spite for spite's sake. And further when the ONLY posts certain people make anymore is a daily "anti-woke" rant it makes me less and less inclined to wanna click on the threads they participate in because it is exhausting.

Do people not notice that even "not woke" movies these days are f*cking terrible? ALL movies are awful now, to blame it ALL on "the wokesters" is nonsense. Nobody likes a f*cking crusader no matter what the quest.

[Prowler]

I wouldn't even know of this movie if it wasn't for this thread. Shows how much in touch I am.

I'm not much of a movie and TV series guy anyway. Or haven't been so in at least a decade. I've never seen any of the popular Marvel movies from the last several years or TV shows like Game of Thrones.

As for the woke stuff, well obviously I avoid such works. I'm not going to watch something that I know won't be right up my alley. It would annoy me if it was done to a favourite property of mine, however. But I don't give a **** about Disney's Little Mermaid, so if it gets ruined by an agenda driven movie, who cares.

[Coola Yagami]

Coola: What's it got to do with You or I?

What would a hypothetical new Big Bird movie have to do with You or I? Would the fact that you loved Big Bird at age 3 mean you are somehow NOT a goober for obsessing over it at age 40 when it has nothing to do with you at all?

It's just spite for spite's sake. And further when the ONLY posts certain people make anymore is a daily "anti-woke" rant it makes me less and less inclined to wanna click on the threads they participate in because it is exhausting.

Do people not notice that even "not woke" movies these days are f*cking terrible? ALL movies are awful now, to blame it ALL on "the wokesters" is nonsense. Nobody likes a f*cking crusader no matter what the quest.

In the the grand scheme of things, those movies have nothing to do with You or I. I don't care beyond the fact that I will/will not pay to see whatever movie depending on the movie.

But you have to admit, at least 'regular movies' don't have that kind of 'watch this or you're this or that' kind of marketing. I don't remember any regular movie doing that kind of thing other than just advertising their movie. Like Jurassic Park and all it's sequels are pretty much 'look! dinosaurs!!!!'. I mean, even the most testosterone-pumped action movie doesn't go with 'watch this movie or else you're a wimpy girly-man!!!!' levels of marketing. I don't remember ever hearing Swartzanegger or Stallone calling their fans pussies or wimps if they don't watch their latest movies in interviews.

But yes, in the grand scheme of things, You are I got nothing to do with this and these movies won't succeed or fail just because I chose to watch one movie over the other.

[Leo656]

Prowler: S'what I'm saying, it's like a personal crusade/vendetta anymore with some people. I only know some of these movies exist because I see people Here going off about them.

Like as if Godzilla vs. Kong wasn't one of the worst movies made in years. Even not-woke movies are terrible because all Hollywood knows how to do is pander. And they pander to ALL demos. But what they do NOT do is practice Effort. They don't try to create good characters or tell good stories. But that's universal. Has less to do with "woke", everything to do with being lazy.

I'd suggest what we should crusade against is simply STUPID movies, but then there would be no MCU and the entire industry would collapse.

Coola: The Media is not The Movie. By all means, be annoyed at the inciteful people who stir up such nonsense on an individual level.

[Andrew NDB]

So what are the genuinely good movies that weren't woke that failed of late? I'm sure there's at least a couple, but I'm drawing a blank.

[Coola Yagami]

So what are the genuinely good movies that weren't woke that failed of late? I'm sure there's at least a couple, but I'm drawing a blank.

Did the Halloween movies fail or is it too soon to find out?

[Andrew NDB]

Did the Halloween movies fail or is it too soon to find out?

Didn't fail. The new one already more than doubled its budget back in one week -- domestically -- and Kills tripled it domestically also.

[Coola Yagami]

Didn't fail. The new one already more than doubled its budget back in one week -- domestically -- and Kills tripled it domestically also.

Hmmmm then I'm drawing a blank. Though to be a fair, even the smallest woke movie will get a lot of PR due to all the virtue signal marketing. A lot of regular movies might slip under the radar since they won't reduce themselves to those tactics.

[Leo656]

It's very hard for a horror movie to "fail" because they cost peanuts to make. And, as mentioned, bad reviews don't scare people off from seeing them because "Whattya expect? It's a horror movie, they're ALL terrible! That's the point, they're just for fun!" Even some of the most derided horror movies of all time were very profitable. Like people scream bloody murder about Rob Zombie's "Halloween" movies but they made a LOT of money.


So what are the genuinely good movies

I've been asking myself this for years. There mostly aren't any, period. MCU and Jurassic Park ruined the business forever, it is what it is.

Ghostbusters: Afterlife under-performed, there's that. Didn't "fail" but it made a lot less than it should have. It's also the only "good" movie I've seen in... a long time.

I mean I don't see everything and I see many things way late. But the only two "new-ish" movies I've genuinely enjoyed in years were Ghostbusters and Snyder's Justice League. Everything else was either mediocre, terrible, or left no impression.

But again, I don't see everything. Because a lot of what's coming out doesn't interest me.

And if I'm not interested, I'm just not interested. As in I don't make threads about it, I don't hawk the production, the box office, the media scrum, I don't celebrate the victory or the failure... I just check out. Because that's what "not caring" is. The people who SAY they don't care, and yet create/update multiple threads about a thing they don't care about... they care a LOT about things that have nothing to do with them, and I just find it a questionable way to spend one's very limited time. You can't say you don't care and then spend all your time caring, you have to ACTUALLY Not Care.

[AquaParade]

Leo and Coola both made solid arguments and I agree with both in ways.

I think the obsession with this type of stuff is unhealthy. It also gets people to a point where they see these issues everywhere, even where they don’t exist, and become a bit annoying about it.

At the same time, seriously, screw those actors out there, getting on a high horse, and calling out people for their lack of support or their supposed privilege, when these people are completely out of touch with the everyday person. Don’t chastise me for not giving you more money, swine.

[Andrew NDB]

So basically... no examples of genuinely good movies that weren't woke that failed in roughly the area surrounding/encompassing the COVID stuff? I'm a little bit doubting your hypothesis, Leo... I'm just saying. Feel free to debunk. I don't want to say it yet without you having a chance to respond... but it sort of sounds like you introduced an argument that doesn't have any legs.


I think the obsession with this type of stuff is unhealthy. It also gets people to a point where they see these issues everywhere, even where they don’t exist, and become a bit annoying about it.

For many years I was a non-political person swatting off weirdos talking about this or that off my arm like it was background noise while I was very eager to re-elect Obama. No, this is a very different world now. I hate to break it to you. We've arrived at a full-on assault on the arts, the one thing I cared about and dreamed about the most as a kid, and I am very "packed," also impassioned, to explain my stance a little better if you'd really like to go that route.

For me? I see the arts not so slowly slipping into a place where actual creativity will not only be discouraged, but penalized. For me, this is the worst thing imaginable. I don't apologize for me treating this as, basically, war.

Also, and this is odd to remind folks here about, when you're posting on a message board or Facebook or you name it, all emotional inflection and such is immediately lost. You are reading into what I'm -- or anyone else -- posting what you want to, in terms of emotion or intensity or what have you. Because you have nothing else to go off of. Depending on the hour, it is me on a varying level of swapping windows around working on this or that, laughing at this or that while sipping a drink, dragging this other window here to respond to a work thing, or to remember to order more Tumeric (this just came up).

And Leo. Same as you don't have any skin in the kid game as it amounts to the debates about transing kids in elementary school and so on and apparently you claim you never will. I know you're a mild Youtuber. And a super intelligent guy. I'm just laying this carpet here and saying "you have no idea what it's like. Stop pretending you do."

Certainly pre-kids me and if I'd never had any would be a very different person. Here on this forum or anywhere else. We can haha that or hand waive it but it's true.

[Leo656]

Yeah, yeah, I know... "I can't even watch TV or movies anymore because there's too many gay people and minorities in them, my whole life's work has been derailed by these people." You've gone on that rant before and frankly, it wasn't very persuasive then, either. I maintain that the world has bigger problems than this stuff, and that it's more fulfilling to just turn your back on things that don't entertain you rather than take up the sword against those things.

I hate everything coming out nowadays, too, albeit probably for different reasons than you do. I've been outspoken about that. Rather than wail impotently on message boards about it... I just don't watch new stuff unless I already know I'll probably like it. Problem solved. I don't have to pay attention to any of it, nobody forces me to pay attention to it. Movies and TV existed for almost a century before I was born, there's no shortage of things for me to watch. Literally, I'm 1000% serious, the entire industry could collapse and nobody could ever make a new TV show or movie ever again. And you know what? I'd be Perfectly Fine. I'd have plenty to catch up on, and frankly, it'd all be better than whatever crap they'd be reheating and serving up Now any goddamn way. Who gives a sh*t?

It's like with the Simpsons. I've been saying for years that while I hate New Simpsons as much as anyone else does, what I am even MORE sick of at this point is the constant, non-stop, repetitive, annoying, never-ending "The show sucked since 1997" crybaby sh*t. I hope the show stays on the air FOREVER just to spite those annoying, whiny f*cks, I really hope so. I won't be watching it, because I don't care about the show anymore, but I hope one day some message board or YouTube idiot has a heart attack and dies mid-rant about why the 47th new story about about how Homer and Marge "really" first met wasn't as good as the first one and Why Not. F*ck 'em, s'what they get for wasting so much emotion on things of zero consequence.

Same thing with "Woke Sh*t". It's not that I like "Woke Sh*t", I've spoken about it all plenty. But by now, I'm more sick of the whining about it, and also the exaggerations about it.

Like, can we accept a few simple truths here? Probably not, but let's try: A movie for black people by black people isn't "woke sh*t", it's appealing to an audience that isn't You, and good. A movie predominantly for gay people isn't "woke sh*t", it's again merely appealing to an audience that isn't You, and again, good. I don't get offended at an entire industry when people make movies that are CLEARLY not made for me to watch them, I say "Hey, y'know what? Good for Those People Over There. I'll be Over Here, but I hope they're having fun Over There."

Like, "ohmigod, the gay rom-com movie was terrible." Y'mean like ALL rom-coms are terrible? Like, if gay people want a terrible movie in a terrible genre to call their own, who gives a flying f*ck? Why single out The One and not The Many? There's only one reason to care so much, and again, that reason DOES come down to "I mean, I SWEAR I have a gay friend, honest..." no matter how much anyone swears otherwise.

"I'm cheering out loud on a dead message board that the gay rom-com flopped because I just wanna preserve the integrity of the movie industry!" Hmmmmm...

Sorry, but my Little Orphan Annie Secret Decoder Ring tells me that this statement is actually code for, "I'm cheering that the gay rom-com failed because even seeing gay people in any arena of life makes me super uncomfortable, but I know I can't say that out loud anymore and so I just celebrate way too hard when they try to achieve something and fall short. I wish they'd all just disappear from my sight forever, but instead I'll settle for taking swipes at them every chance I get and swear that it's for a much larger, greater good."

Y'all are lucky that people actually don't have the power to just wish away everything they themselves specifically don't care about or don't wanna see. Specifically, you're lucky *I* don't have that power. Football? Gone. Black licorice? See ya. Pop Music? Have fun in the Phantom Zone. Corn Mazes? F*ck outta here with that sh*t. Camping? If God wanted us to be outside he wouldn't have given us air conditioning. Kiss your precious MCU goodbye. TMNT? Definitely gone forever. MOST of the things you people love deeply really, really, REALLY annoy the crap outta me. And so you're lucky I'm not a spiteful, vindictive type with the power of Thanos or I'd snap everything you love out of existence just to watch you cry about it.

But see, instead I'm just a person who doesn't give a sh*t about how well the things that aren't made for ME to enjoy do, or don't do. I just leave it alone. Because I'm apparently a lot more well-adjusted than a lot of y'all... which frankly isn't something I'm comfortable with.

I just think spending an inordinate amount of time on message boards pouring champagne because something that you were never gonna see anyway did poorly is a little bit f*cking retarded. And I don't see how anyone could rightly disagree with that assessment unless impotent rage is all they have. And for at least one or two of you, I know that simply is not true, which makes it even more disappointing to see. I expect such behavior from losers, not people with sh*t going on.

I grew up loving a lot of stuff, too. And a lot of it sucks now. A lot. Wrestling is terrible. TMNT is terrible. Movies are terrible. Disney is terrible. Comics are terrible. A lot of things I loved my entire life are terrible now, and I realize and accept that they will never get better or ever again appeal to My Tastes. There is a sadness to that, sure. But it's Reality.

I figured out a while ago that I could keep spitting in the wind while hoping and praying for it all to turn back around... OR, I could just bury those things, walk away, and find new hobbies.

One reaction is healthy, the other not. We all make choices.

[Leo656]

At the same time, seriously, screw those actors out there, getting on a high horse, and calling out people for their lack of support or their supposed privilege, when these people are completely out of touch with the everyday person. Don’t chastise me for not giving you more money, swine.

I definitely agree with this, but again, I just roll my eyes and tune most of it out. That's the healthy response. It's definitely annoying, but whatever, to get upset is conceding control of your emotions to them and a person has the power to not do that.

Like, I get called a racist and a homophobe more than almost anyone here. Sometimes I respond to refute, other times not. But I don't get TOO upset about "You must be a racist if you don't like _____" or "You must hate gay people if you don't like ______"... because *I* know I'm not a racist or a homophobe. If they think I am, nothing I can say will change their mind.

So yes, if the people who made the gay rom-com say "You're a bigot if you don't like this movie", that is annoying, yes. If the people who make movies "just for black people" say "You're a racist if you don't love this movie", that is annoying. Very, very annoying.

But if YOU know you're not, why not just shrug it off? Why not just say "Man, that's dumb of them to say," and keep walking? You know You, they don't, they're just a talking head. Unless a person has a guilty conscience, there's no reason to be shook up about it.

It's like people who say "I can't believe what so-and-so said on The View, how offensive to my sensibilities." What the f*ck idiot watches The View in the first place? You have to consider the source on these things. If the person calling you a name is a proven idiot, don't get mad, just laugh and get on with life.

[AquaParade]

Yeah, that’s definitely true to an extent. Is there value is calling this **** out? If done in the right way, yeah, probably. But otherwise, probably best to ignore it.

At the least, don’t give these people and the websites that promote them the “clicks” and attention they are after.

[Leo656]

Once it sank in that I am officially more than halfway to dead, I've started getting a little more philosophical about a few things. It's stupid for people to waste their precious time banging a drum about gay people and minorities in movies and TV shows.

Yes, it's dumb that every redhead who ever existed in a thing has to be black now, it's dumb to make straight characters gay, it's dumb that "If you don't go see _____ you're a _____-ist", it's dumb that movies and TV overrepresent various minority populations in service to a larger point, it's all dumb.

But so is making it a crusade. The conservative side ain't winning it, history does not favor them in this.

I mean, these people who complain about "woke-ness" at some point need to accept that societies (and their entertainment), as a rule, become more liberal, not less, as time goes on. Things only skew back to a more conservative state in cases like the Islamic Revolution in Iran; some nut with a gun and a flag and a book of made-up fairy tales has to decide that he's gonna enforce his will on everyone no matter what anyone thinks. And we really should not want that to happen Here. I know for a fact some people, including many people on this forum do actually want that. But we should not want that.

That's the only way a society ever un-"wokes" itself, though. Tyranny of the Minority. "We may be outnumbered but We Know We're Right! And we'll do whatever it takes to make you all fall in line." That's how "a return to Conservative values" happens, the only way it ever happens: At the point of a gun.

And most people here aren't actually gonna physically fight for that (I hope), no matter how annoyed they are by woke-ness. So unless you're ready to start fire-bombing movie theaters which show the gay rom-coms, or burn down Disney Studios every time they race-flip a Mermaid - which you should not do or even want to do, remember - then it's time to accept that they've officially lost the culture war. Time to make like Elsa and Let It Go, not keep banging on about it or expecting/demanding it to go back to "how it used to be". If it happens, if "woke-ness" burns itself out in media and otherwise, it will be organically because people just plain independently decide they're tired, not because people on YouTube and message boards keep screaming about the Woke Boogeyman, that sh*t does NOTHING. Nothing except incite more people to such extreme polarity of position, which is only doing more harm.

So it's like, yeah, okay, movies and TV and comics are awful and stupid and agenda-driven and whatever. Okay, so take up whittling and quit being a impotent rabble-rouser, then. This stuff isn't going away, accept or find new hobbies.

"I shouldn't have to find new hobbies or stop liking the things I've always liked! I was already here before they took this thing I loved away from me and ruined it!"

Awwww, what a shame. Happens to all of us, eventually, that's called Life and The Passage Of Time. Crying about it, or even passive-aggressive snarking about it, ain't helpin' ya.

Basically, I'd love it if some of these cats had more fire about things that actually matter, had more acceptance of the fact that not everything in entertainment or otherwise is created for them specifically, and I am discouraged that they waste their time and in some cases their intelligence on such trifling endeavors as this.

That's what has me aggravated at present. People spending too much time ranting about what's so wrong with movies they were never going to see in the first place, because those movies are a microcosm of a world that's changing too fast for them and they don't like it. Well... tough, get over it, go do something else besides whine.

I mean yeah, here I am whining about the whining. But that's just me trying to spread a little Enlightenment as usual.

[Andrew NDB]

No, I don't think you're really grasping the situation. This isn't, "I'm getting older and suddenly I'm not connecting with material aimed at 17-20 year olds anymore." This is reacting to or at least being cognizant of (pointing it out) an extremely pervasive, cancerous ideology and movement that has largely taken the place of your much-hated organized religions, spreading its roots from one end of the mainstream arts to the other and continuing to grow. It's really pretty remarkable, both in how fast and thoroughly it took hold and how most of everyone just shrugs and lets it continue to happen.

[Coola Yagami]

Holy ****, I was not prepared for Smile. Thank god I saw it early and had the rest of the day to do other stuff abd forget about it lol.

Idk I do better with things where the villain is a guy of sorts, Freddy, Jason, Pennywise, but actual demonic entities give me the creeps lmao.

Happy belated birthday to me I guess lol..

[Andrew NDB]

Holy ****, I was not prepared for Smile. Thank god I saw it early and had the rest of the day to do other stuff abd forget about it lol.

Smile was awesome. I totally thought it was going to suck, too. It's like a more polished version of "It Follows."

[IMJ]

Yeah, yeah, I know... "I can't even watch TV or movies anymore because there's too many gay people and minorities in them, my whole life's work has been derailed by these people." I maintain that the world has bigger problems than this stuff, and that it's more fulfilling to just turn your back on things that don't entertain you rather than take up the sword against those things.

I agree with this completely, although I also believe that often-recently more pushback is warranted because of the nature of sociology that has been coming along with the pop-culture. When someone releases something with some kind of vitriolic messaging to the rest of society in blanket statements, then pushback and encourage the people around you to walk away from it.

If something comes out organically, without a virtue-signaler or purity-test style campaign behind it, but it's still not for you; then just let it be and don't spend your money on it.

I think Leo, you have to understand that you can't put everything that's been going on under a blanket of innocent-disinterest that we should say nothing about. Nothing about what is going on falls under blanket-statements of action. Nowadays everything has to be looked at with nuance. Which is unfortunate but the blue-hairs and life-angry have made it that way.

[Coola Yagami]

I agree with this completely, although I also believe that often-recently more pushback is warranted because of the nature of sociology that has been coming along with the pop-culture. When someone releases something with some kind of vitriolic messaging to the rest of society in blanket statements, then pushback and encourage the people around you to walk away from it.

If something comes out organically, without a virtue-signaler or purity-test style campaign behind it, but it's still not for you; then just let it be and don't spend your money on it.

I think Leo, you have to understand that you can't put everything that's been going on under a blanket of innocent-disinterest that we should say nothing about. Nothing about what is going on falls under blanket-statements of action. Nowadays everything has to be looked at with nuance. Which is unfortunate but the blue-hairs and life-angry have made it that way.

The main issue is there really isn't much we can do about it. Bomb after bomb and yet they already got the next 'very important movie' lined up. Even if enough people refuse to see a movie due to wokeness, if it happens enough they'll just shut down all movie theaters because they'd rather believe 'I guess people just don't like going out to the movies anymore' instead of facing the fact that it's the horrible movies being made that makes people not want to see them.

Since nowadays everything is mostly streaming though, I'm not sure what the reaction would be there though. They are way too popular and common nowadays, I do not see Netflix and Hulu closing their doors just because enough people refuse to watch woke content. Maybe, just maybe, they'll get the message and stop there? After all, at the end of the day all that really matters is money, and if they bleed enough, they might cut the cord on them.

I remember a while back the Dave Chapelle specials were making a decent amount of money and then the woke employees started bitching about it, the top people at Netflix were like 'well, either you suck it up and leave your ideologies at the door or look for another job'. And of course the most recent case of the WB guy cancelling and cutting all woke projects in the works cause they just don't sell. If we get a lot more of that we might see a change in the tides.

[Coola Yagami]

Smile was awesome. I totally thought it was going to suck, too. It's like a more polished version of "It Follows."

Yeah, I had a meal, did some shopping, it's kinda out of sight out of mind now. But at least for someone like me, this isn't the kind of movie I'd want to see a half hour before bedtime.

Thank god I didn't get the 3D version lol.

Then when I went to the theater bathroom afterwards, I heard some sort of commotion outside. I couldn't tell what it was cause it was muffled and all that, some woman either speaking, laughing or crying loudly and people reacting around her. I was like 'oh ****, let's not start this creepy **** now. I ****in better not see no ****in smiling creepy people when I get out of the bathroom.'

[AquaParade]

Is it actually scary or is it James Wan “scary”?

[Leo656]

No, I don't think you're really grasping the situation. This isn't, "I'm getting older and suddenly I'm not connecting with material aimed at 17-20 year olds anymore." This is reacting to or at least being cognizant of (pointing it out) an extremely pervasive, cancerous ideology and movement that has largely taken the place of your much-hated organized religions, spreading its roots from one end of the mainstream arts to the other and continuing to grow. It's really pretty remarkable, both in how fast and thoroughly it took hold and how most of everyone just shrugs and lets it continue to happen.

Still reads as "Too many minorities and gay people in muh movies now", might be the syntax.

[Andrew NDB]

Is it actually scary or is it James Wan “scary”?

I got shivers in more than a few moments. Lots of jump scares, too, but ones organic to the actual threat (and not, say, a random hissing cat or something).

[Coola Yagami]

Is it actually scary or is it James Wan “scary”?

It was scary to me anyway since I usually don't do horror movies. The premise for this one was too interesting to pass up. It seems more nerve-rattling and has an all-encompassing creepy feel with the music and tone because you know creepy **** is gonna happen but you don't know when. At least for me I was on edge for a lot of it and actually jumped at the jumpscares and whatnot.

Andrew might be a better judge since it sounds like he's seen more horror flicks.

[Coola Yagami]

Still reads as "Too many minorities and gay people in muh movies now", might be the syntax.

True, but it's also because they love to use minorities and gays as props for the virtue signaling. I'm sure no one would care if they did more movies like Encanto and such that had minority characters but the marketing campaign wasn't 100% OMG LOOK AT HOW PROGRESSIVE WE ARE, or Alita: Battle Angel that was more 'this is based on this classic anime series' and not 'OMG FEMALE LEAD, GONNA SHOW THOSE TOXIC MEN HOW IT'S DONE, WATCH IT OR YOU HATE WOMEN'.

Ironically Alita came out at the same general time Harley Quinn and her Anti-Man Crusade came out and the overall woke brigade weren't too happy that both Alita and Sonic were doing better at the box office than that one. Ironically because if they meant what they said, they should be happy that a female led movie like Alita was doing well.

I know romcoms are a hard sell, but I think if someone made a good gay romcom that didn't push the WE'RE SO FLAMIN' GAY YOU GUYS vibe, they'd also be upset that that one did better than Bros, despite the fact that they should be happy there's a positive gay movie out there making decent numbers.

To add to that (and yes I know you hate this movie, and yes it was a dumb but fun movie), there were even complaints about Godzilla VS Kong back then because it didn't have a political message of any kind. Yeah, it's a big dumb CGI fest, but omg, just enjoy the movie for what it is, there isn't a need to cram modern day American politics into literally everything.

[Leo656]

Rom-Coms are trash-tier cinema, don't patronize me son. :lol: There is no "good" or "bad" in the genre, it's only whether or not an individual has the patience to sit through 90 minutes of flaming garbage over a contemporary soundtrack. They're ALL the same and they're all terrible.

The only variable in that situation is straight people going "Ew, gay people, I don't wanna lookit that!" Okay, so don't, do something else, whatever, it's not for you. "How DARE they make movies overwhelmingly featuring gay people?" I'unno, maybe because there's been movies "overwhelmingly featuring straight people" for a hundred years? People will f*cking survive, Jesus.

As I said earlier to a good longtime friend who quit this place a while back due to the overwhelming deluge of racism and homophobia around here (their words, paraphrased): "A lot of guys out there are terrified that they'd love it if they ever got it in the ass, and that's 100% of their 'ew gay people' hangup." :lol:

[IndigoErth]

an extremely pervasive, cancerous ideology and movement that has largely taken the place of your much-hated organized religions, spreading its roots from one end of the mainstream arts to the other and continuing to grow. It's really pretty remarkable, both in how fast and thoroughly it took hold and how most of everyone just shrugs and lets it continue to happen.
I'm not really understanding your perspective there. The arts have always been wide open forever. Even if I don't like a particular person's art or the subject matter they choose to work with doesn't make it not art or an unwelcome intrusion on art in general just because it doesn't suit me.

Some subjects at one time or another have been taboo or distasteful, but people still painted them, wrote them, acted them... but part of art is pushing that envelope at times? Also, you know, freedom of speech.

[Coola Yagami]

I'm not really understanding your perspective there. The arts have always been wide open forever. Even if I don't like a particular person's art or the subject matter they choose to work with doesn't make it not art or an unwelcome intrusion on art in general just because it doesn't suit me.

True, but you shouldn't be called names or insulted or be accused of being a part of certain groups because you might not like a particular person's art or subject matter.

[IndigoErth]

Sure, if someone was being called the names directly. Not a random person who happened to read a comment and for some reason decide it was meant for them.

[Coola Yagami]

Sure, if someone was being called the names directly. Not a random person who happened to read a comment and for some reason decide it was meant for them.

So if they say 'only racists don't like xyz' and you happen to not like xyz because xyz was just horrible, do you want to be lumped in with 'racists?' Or be called one if you so much as say 'ehhh the story/effects/characters/whatever could have been better'.

[IndigoErth]

Well if I know I'm not, then I know it doesn't really pertain to me and that person is just one person in the world and doesn't really hold any weight in what I know about myself, so I end up not really caring what they've said.

[Leo656]

Same, it's aggravating for sure and I've said as much. But you can't change their mind if they've decided you are. Just roll your eyes and sigh. It's frustrating but people are like that if they wanna be.

[Sumac]

Well if I know I'm not, then I know it doesn't really pertain to me and that person is just one person in the world and doesn't really hold any weight in what I know about myself, so I end up not really caring what they've said.
I personally think, that their stance should be challenged on every step.
You might not change mind of the zealot, that is true, but you can show other people, how dumb ideology of the zealot is, which will make more people question it and stump its growth. So next time even zealot will think twice before calling someone who didn't liked Shitbusters 2016 "nazis", not, because he had changed his opinion, but, because, he will know how retarded he will look like for the rest of the world.

It won't stop everyone, but it will help to fight against this trash.

[IndigoErth]

Unless drawing attention through creating drama was their aim, then it's just playing into it.

Someone calling anyone a Nazi for not liking a movie, and especially as that doesn't even make sense, isn't, imo, worth the drama they're trying to stir up and lashing out because they're disappointed.

People can try to bite back to attempt to deter other zealots from doing it, but if that drama is what they want then like-minded zealots might actually be encouraged, not deterred.

It depends on the situation though, I guess. Sometimes a "Psh, yeah okay. :roll:" that denies the power they're looking for to create an argument may be all that's needed. Imo. Chances are that person will either settle down because the steam was taken out of their argument by not being taken seriously, or...they'd take the opportunity to go deeper and make themselves look like a lunatic, at which point...let 'em, they're making a fine example of what no sane person wants to be. (At least from what I've seen over the years, and plenty of them predictable in their response.) The crazy ones like them aren't going to be deterred either way.

But that's my 2 cents on that matter, and just how I personally tend to judge if something it worth even bothering to comment on.

[Coola Yagami]

Going back to Smile, I recently found out for a while there they had random paid actors um... planted... in the crowds of Major League Baseball games just to stand still and smile just to creep people out. Clever marketing.

Imagine just seeing the movie and being creeped out about it and then you decide to chill and watch baseball and see that in the crowd, lmao.

Also damn you Andrew, I can't say planted without thinking of you anymore.

[Andrew NDB]

PLANTS!!! They don't even hide many of then anymore. Now they're "social media influencers" and they boast about it.