human TMNT interpretations

[NeonTurtledude]

While with the turtles being anthropomorphic they already have some "human traits" compared to other mutant characters like Slash (who are more beast-like) and there have been some examples of them in "human form" like "The Gang's All Here" from the fred wolf series where Michelangelo turned human and the Pizza Friday short from 2016

How do you interpret the turtle's "human forms"?

do you think their human forms would look different depending on the iteration?

do you see their human forms as temporary like in the two examples I gave
or can you see it as an alternate universe (with alternate universes being established in Turtles Forever)
or do you think the turtles used to be human? (via the reincarnation storyline)

[Powder]

I don't want human forms, ever, of any kind. That's like the ultimate TMNT no-no to me, & super cringey when fans do it. Defeats the entire point.

[Andrew NDB]

https://media.giphy.com/media/xUOwGkEUYjXfxS1iGk/giphy.gif

[neatoman]

Uh, I can appreciate a good piece of fan art that depicts them as human and I can accept the idea of them using holograms or something to disguise themselves as human. The idea of them actually transforming into humans or starting out as humans (as in directly transforming from human to mutant turtles, not reincarnated as regular turtles first) is an idea I hate and hope never goes beyond that one episode of Fred Wolf.

Speaking of that episode, was the writer under the assumption that the Turtles used to be human? I know the episode is dumb in general and the writer clearly didn't put much thought into the script, as it treats their ninja skills as being inherently tied to them being mutant turtles rather than something they learned and even explicitly states that they can't be ninjas as human being (even though I'm pretty damn sure all ninjas in the real world were human), but it still states Mike ingested "anti-mutagen" which would imply it undoes mutations.

And even if we just assume he turns into a human being because he got human DNA from Hamato Yoshi and the episode simply worded the dialogue really poorly, why does he... Uh... Well... Not look much like Hamato Yoshi, if you know what I mean?...

[NeonTurtledude]

Uh, I can appreciate a good piece of fan art that depicts them as human and I can accept the idea of them using holograms or something to disguise themselves as human. The idea of them actually transforming into humans or starting out as humans (as in directly transforming from human to mutant turtles, not reincarnated as regular turtles first) is an idea I hate and hope never goes beyond that one episode of Fred Wolf.

Speaking of that episode, was the writer under the assumption that the Turtles used to be human? I know the episode is dumb in general and the writer clearly didn't put much thought into the script, as it treats their ninja skills as being inherently tied to them being mutant turtles rather than something they learned and even explicitly states that they can't be ninjas as human being (even though I'm pretty damn sure all ninjas in the real world were human), but it still states Mike ingested "anti-mutagen" which would imply it undoes mutations.

And even if we just assume he turns into a human being because he got human DNA from Hamato Yoshi and the episode simply worded the dialogue really poorly, why does he... Uh... Well... Not look much like Hamato Yoshi, if you know what I mean?...

Yeah like in the punk frog episode when Shredder made his hologram form.

it's been a long time since I watched the Gangs all here episode so I can't remember the details, another one that comes to mind is Splinter No More when he temporarily turned back into Hamato Yoshi.

as for the Turtles being humans, that would be more of a disguise or AU! thing, in most of the TMNT continuity I see the turtles as well mutant turtles, (unless it's specified that they're reincarnations in a specific piece of tmnt media).

[neatoman]

Yeah like in the punk frog episode when Shredder made his hologram form.

Yeah that... Uhm, yeah... That's a really weird one too. It's not like he even tries to disguise himself as a different person, it's literally just a projection of casual clothing. I thought that maybe the writer was just ignorant of what Shredder looked like and assumed he was an alien or something, but considering he makes reference to human conquerors in the episode, I doubt that's the case.

And as a side note, the episode confirms my suspicion that the Fred Wolf writers thought mastery of martial arts could be achieved in a matter of hours...


it's been a long time since I watched the Gangs all here episode so I can't remember the details, another one that comes to mind is Splinter No More when he temporarily turned back into Hamato Yoshi.

What basically happens is that the Turtles are given cookies laced with anti-mutagen which Donatello analyses and explicitly states will turn them human. Splinter says it is a bad idea to eat these cookies because they will lose their ninja skills if they become human (which again, I have no idea why that would be the case) but Mike eats one anyway and does indeed lose his ninja skills (and turning human also magically gives him shoes somehow). And then it is stated that turning human will eventually make him explode, as if becoming weak and unskilled wasn't enough of a problem to overcome.

Splinter No More isn't really that weird beyond the contrivances that lead to Splinter concluding he shouldn't really bother trying to become human. I have several problems with Splinter starting out as human but I think that when you make it clear that it can be reversed, it pretty much speaks for itself. If it can be reversed (especially if it's permanent), why would he ever want to stay a rat? It's pretty obvious in the 2012 cartoon, he could very easily reverted back to human at any point after the rough halfway point of season 2 and he never did or even tried.


as for the Turtles being humans, that would be more of a disguise or AU! thing, in most of the TMNT continuity I see the turtles as well mutant turtles, (unless it's specified that they're reincarnations in a specific piece of tmnt media).

That is correct.

[NeonTurtledude]

yeah, I think he spends so much time in that technodrome, I wonder if he has a wardrobe in there, maybe his hologram ability was just more convenient for him? he looks quite blasian in the Fred wolf series which is kinda fitting, having his James avery voice actor, not sure if it was intentional for him to look like that but I like how he aesthetically looks.

However I do think 2003 and 2012 Shredder are more fitting for him as a character, putting more emphasis on him being a threatening villain instead of an occasionally goofy villain.

it's interesting because people on Twitter are going on about "how the turtles are supposed to look when depicted as human in fanart" (either that or they're complaining about how they look in the pizza Friday short) yet when I ask the question on here, I find out that "turtles being human" is a concept a lot of people hate or don't want to think about, which I understand, the "disguises" work just fine and I like the turtles being who they are.

there are a lot of references in various TMNT media of them talking about "living in a glass bowl, being at a petshop, being an egg" which confirms that they are turtles first in most tmnt media (except the ones with reincarnation storylines).

However, I don't mind the idea of TMNT being human in fanart, I like how interpretative the characters are, their ethnicity could be anything but they'd still be the same turtles but one thing I think is consistent with the turtle's nationality is that they're American, New York City is their home, we don't know much about what happened to them before they got taken in by Splinter, Michelangelo mentions a "mother" in the Fred Wolf series but we don't much about her origins.

basically, my answer is in one of Robot Chicken sketches where at the end Mikey and Leo are confused on if they are Asian or Italian and Splinter just says "you're turtles!"

[Cowabung-Gal]

I think the best human interpretation of Michelangelo is the one in the summer short “Pizza Friday”. It’s just…perfect. Probably because Kevin Eastman produced that short, lol.

[Antoniocafe]

I actually just watched The Gangs All Here a few days days ago. It was interesting, because when the turtles were contemplating eating the cookies, Master Splinter said something like they would "lose their ninja skills" if they became human. That statement really didnt make a whole lot of sense. What he said in Splinter No More made a lot more sense. In that episode when he was contemplating becoming human himself, he said something like "as a rat he had abilities he wouldn't have had otherwise".

[Coola Yagami]

Lots of little details here and there.

I like in the Splinter episode, even for a silly cartoon, there was a brief scene where the Turtles doubted if Splinter would ever come back, now that he was a human. Obviously you overlook how difficult it would be to get a job and a place to live and whatnot, but from the Turtles point of view, if Splinter was human permanently there was always the chance he'd leave and never come back.

As for the sillier episode, yeah, there is no reason why Mikey would lose not only his ninja skills but all his musculature as a human. The 80's turtles might look silly and kinda pudgy but they were pretty muscular and Mikey just turned into a human wimpy kid.

The part that got me the most was when the Turtles, while looking for Mikey, find a random kid and think it's him. Like, none of them ever saw the moment Mikey turned human and left the lair. They would have zero idea what a 'human Mikey' would even look like.

[NeonTurtledude]

how do you interpret mikey to look like as a human? (aside from that episode's design)

[neatoman]

how do you interpret mikey to look like as a human? (aside from that episode's design)
https://process.fs.grailed.com/AJdAgnqCST4iPtnUxiGtTz/auto_image/cache=expiry:max/rotate=deg:exif/output=quality:70/compress/thStW6CkTWSHa5BrB45Q

[NeonTurtledude]

https://process.fs.grailed.com/AJdAgnqCST4iPtnUxiGtTz/auto_image/cache=expiry:max/rotate=deg:exif/output=quality:70/compress/thStW6CkTWSHa5BrB45Q

Ahahahaha, love that, very fitting, I want that shirt now :lol:

[CyberCubed]

Would Donatello still be, "the black Turtle?"

[Jephael]

I don't want human forms, ever, of any kind. That's like the ultimate TMNT no-no to me, & super cringey when fans do it. Defeats the entire point.

Does that include when they're in disguise like in that "Pizza Friday" short by Kevin Eastman?

[Prowler]

I don't want human forms, ever, of any kind. That's like the ultimate TMNT no-no to me, & super cringey when fans do it. Defeats the entire point.

Beat me to it.

If it wasn't for the Gangs All Here episode, I'd not even ever thought about it at all. Clearly, that's not something I'm interested in and I fisl to see what the point of "human turtles" would be.

[Leo656]

Beat me to it.

If it wasn't for the Gangs All Here episode, I'd not even ever thought about it at all. Clearly, that's not something I'm interested in and I fisl to see what the point of "human turtles" would be.

The "point" is, fangirls can fap to their favorite and feel marginally less weird about it. That's literally It. It's dumb.

MLP did the same thing with Equestria Girls and it was for the exact same reason - "We know people fap; now you can fap guilt-free!" - and it was stupid. Didn't help that the character designs were horrible.

[Prowler]

The "point" is, fangirls can fap to their favorite and feel marginally less weird about it. That's literally It. It's dumb.

MLP did the same thing with Equestria Girls and it was for the exact same reason - "We know people fap; now you can fap guilt-free!" - and it was stupid. Didn't help that the character designs were horrible.

I dunno if that's such a common fear. Just browse deviantart or read some TMNT fanfics and you'll see a lot of fangirls drooling over the guys without making them humans LMAO.

[Leo656]

Yeah but some people NEED that inherent plausible deniability. "Look, it's not 'weird'! It's not 'zoophilia', they're humans now!"

Playing Devil's Advocate, if some people weren't so quick to scream "Bestiality!" over people fapping to cartoon characters in the first place, the idea of "human versions" of those characters would never even come up much. But, that's what people do, and so the people who fap to those cartoons will in turn defensively come up with "human" versions of them so as to not be called so many names.

It's pretty dumb on multiple levels, frankly.

[Prowler]

I mean, the Nick Toon had Don crushing on April throughout the series. I'm pretty sure she even kissed him at some point.

I think that would only embolden such fangirls even more.

I couldn't care less if fangirls want to have sex with the Ninja Turtles. LOTS of One Piece fans want to smash Wanda and Carrot. Do you think anyone gives them flack for it? No. At least not the majority of the fan base. Then again, anime fans tend to be more tolerant of less conventional fetishes :lol:

[Cowabung-Gal]

I mean, the Nick Toon had Don crushing on April throughout the series. I'm pretty sure she even kissed him at some point.

Oh, barf. Why’d you have to bring that up?

[Leo656]

Yeah, I personally don't give a sh*t what people are into, especially with cartoons or other fictional characters. I'm not creeped out if a girl (or guy) wants to f*ck a Ninja Turtle because hey, it's not like they're ever gonna GET to anyways, so who honestly gives a sh*t?

BUT, some people do care, and they're defensive/shy, so we end up with humanized TMNT and MLP characters even though that completely undermines the point and the spirit of the material. "Get this, what if these characters were... Regular People!" Well, now we've pretty much lost 99% of the reason to care, haven't we?

I'unno.

[Prowler]

Oh, barf. Why’d you have to bring that up?
Sorry lol

And yeah I'm not a fan of that either. I don't like romance involving the Turtles, let alone romance between the Turtles and April or other humans.
Yeah, I personally don't give a sh*t what people are into, especially with cartoons or other fictional characters. I'm not creeped out if a girl (or guy) wants to f*ck a Ninja Turtle because hey, it's not like they're ever gonna GET to anyways, so who honestly gives a sh*t?

BUT, some people do care, and they're defensive/shy, so we end up with humanized TMNT and MLP characters even though that completely undermines the point and the spirit of the material. "Get this, what if these characters were... Regular People!" Well, now we've pretty much lost 99% of the reason to care, haven't we?

I'unno.
A lot of anime fans nowadays also are getting picker and giving fans slack for finding underage anime girls hot. Even if those underage anime girls look pretty grown up. Like Momo Yaoyorozu from My Hero Academia and Rebecca from One Piece. They're both 16 but clearly could be 18 as well and no one would find it surprising.

I think it's stupid to care so much about the arbitrary ages of cartoon and video game characters. Some of the Dead or Alive girls are also 15-17 iirc. Which is why they get aged up in non-Japanese translations.

My only issue is with guys who like lolis. Anime girls who clearly look like children. Now that's creepy and gross. But guys who are into 16-17 year old anime girls with giant boobs? Don't care.

[Leo656]

And yeah I'm not a fan of that either. I don't like romance involving the Turtles, let alone romance between the Turtles and April or other humans.


I am if it's done WELL, but it generally hasn't been in most media and the Nicktoon attempt was AWFUL.

I mean romance is a part of life and the Turtles are the only 4 of their kind. Realistically, they'd be miserable and downright suicidal (as many people are) if they were doomed to never experience a romantic relationship. After money, lack of companionship is the leading external cause of depression among most people, and I don't see how the Turtles would be any different since they have "human brains" for the most part, other than they know for a fact they'd never be with anyone exactly like them. But as we've seen in various media, including Mirage, that wouldn't stop them from trying to basically get whatever they could get. By definition, any relationship they'd have would be "inter-species", but it's never stopped any of them from trying.

Like no, the entire book/movie/show shouldn't grind to a halt to focus on the characters making kissy-face above all else, but the Archie book did a good job with the Raph/Ninjara relationship to illustrate that you CAN do it without "ruining" or overshadowing the rest of what's going on. Ninjara/Raph was only ever a subplot, and things happened "around" it but it wasn't given the main focus.

So I'm fine with it being done WELL. It just usually is not done well, it's usually done pretty badly. In Nick's case, VERY badly. So I do understand why some people would prefer it never come up at all. Personally I think that's a bit myopic, but I get where they're coming from. They've not seen much "proof" that it can be done in a satisfying manner.

Considering that a Nick cartoon could never actually show one of the Turtles in a "relationship" with April, the fact they even made April/Don a recurring plot point - and had it take up SO much real estate - was insipid and a huge reason I tuned out of the show early on. It was SO bad and the rest of the show wasn't good enough to keep me watching outside of that.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Sorry lol

And yeah I'm not a fan of that either. I don't like romance involving the Turtles, let alone romance between the Turtles and April or other humans.

It’s cool. We can’t deny that it ever happened after all.

And regarding human-turtle romance, I can’t remember whether it was Eastman or Laid who said that he wasn’t a big fan of that kind of relationship either. I still cringe at the image of Leo and Radical kissing in issue #41 of Tales Of TMNT

[Prowler]

I am if it's done WELL, but it generally hasn't been in most media and the Nicktoon attempt was AWFUL.

I mean romance is a part of life and the Turtles are the only 4 of their kind. Realistically, they'd be miserable and downright suicidal (as many people are) if they were doomed to never experience a romantic relationship. After money, lack of companionship is the leading external cause of depression among most people, and I don't see how the Turtles would be any different since they have "human brains" for the most part, other than they know for a fact they'd never be with anyone exactly like them. But as we've seen in various media, including Mirage, that wouldn't stop them from trying to basically get whatever they could get. By definition, any relationship they'd have would be "inter-species", but it's never stopped any of them from trying.

Like no, the entire book/movie/show shouldn't grind to a halt to focus on the characters making kissy-face above all else, but the Archie book did a good job with the Raph/Ninjara relationship to illustrate that you CAN do it without "ruining" or overshadowing the rest of what's going on. Ninjara/Raph was only ever a subplot, and things happened "around" it but it wasn't given the main focus.

So I'm fine with it being done WELL. It just usually is not done well, it's usually done pretty badly. In Nick's case, VERY badly. So I do understand why some people would prefer it never come up at all. Personally I think that's a bit myopic, but I get where they're coming from. They've not seen much "proof" that it can be done in a satisfying manner.

Considering that a Nick cartoon could never actually show one of the Turtles in a "relationship" with April, the fact they even made April/Don a recurring plot point - and had it take up SO much real estate - was insipid and a huge reason I tuned out of the show early on. It was SO bad and the rest of the show wasn't good enough to keep me watching outside of that.

Well, yeah. Has any romance in TMNT been done right besides April and Casey?

Sure, if the Turtles are to have gfs then it can be with other mutated animals. Doesn't have to be with Turtles since I'm obviously against the idea of a female turtle.

But the lack of female mutant turtles kinda drives further home the point that the Turtles are alone in the world. So I'm not sure it would be a good idea for them to have successful relationships either. You'd expect them to be attracted to other turtles and not to, let's say, foxes or cows.

[Cowabung-Gal]

But the lack of female mutant turtles kinda drives further home the point that the Turtles are alone in the world. So I'm not sure it would be a good idea for them to have successful relationships either. You'd expect them to be attracted to other turtles and not to, let's say, foxes or cows.

Heh. Reminds me of what Bean the Dynamite asked Sonic the Hedgehog in the Archie comics:

Bean: “Are you and [Princess Sally] going to marry and have mutant hedge-squirrel babies?” :D

Sonic: :blanksta:

[Leo656]

Well, yeah. Has any romance in TMNT been done right besides April and Casey?

Sure, if the Turtles are to have gfs then it can be with other mutated animals. Doesn't have to be with Turtles since I'm obviously against the idea of a female turtle.

But the lack of female mutant turtles kinda drives further home the point that the Turtles are alone in the world. So I'm not sure it would be a good idea for them to have successful relationships either. You'd expect them to be attracted to other turtles and not to, let's say, foxes or cows.

I'd argue that Ninjara/Raph STARTED well before they arbitrarily had her dump him and look like a slut in the process. Seriously, that last story arc was rather rubbish. But before that it was working out rather well.

They even did a neat thing with Mondo Gecko and Candy Fine where initially, she dumped him for becoming a mutant but then did a 180 and realized she loved him anyways and "it's what's inside that counts" and all that, and they rekindled their relationship. I thought that was honestly pretty sweet. Then he went and got murdered because the Mutanimals cartoon got shelved in development, but before that it was nice.

So yeah, there have been a few attempts that weren't altogether bad at all, but they either fizzled out or lacked proper resolution or were abruptly sh*tcanned by arbitrary marketing decisions.

As for "There are no other mutant turtles so they wouldn't even be attracted to females of other species," that's greatly oversimplifying really. For one thing, many humans are furries in real life, and in TMNT canon we know that at the very least Raphael consistently is. If a significant segment of the human population would willingly "hook up" with Ninjara or Alopex, then I'm quite certain that one, some, or all of the Turtles would also be just fine with that same idea.

I mean, we've seen them have various canon romantic relationships in every iteration, and never once with a mutant turtle. At that point we have to accept that canonically, the Turtles are okay seeking love and companionship outside of the "mutant turtle" species, or else we're simply putting our own headcanon ahead of "the official" story. They'll shack up with whoever they're attracted to and whoever will in turn have them, and apparently it has more to do with Personality than Looks or even genus. That's the canon, it's established.

Heh. Reminds me of what Bean the Dynamite asked Sonic the Hedgehog in the Archie comics:

Bean: “Are you and [Princess Sally] going to marry and have mutant hedge-squirrel babies?” :D

Sonic: :blanksta:

:lol: I felt like the "20 Years Later" stuff had a perfectly fine compromise wherein the male children adopted the father's physical traits and the female children resembled the mother. Needn't be any more complicated than that.

[Prowler]

I haven't read Archie, so I don't really know the details. But I am aware of Ninjara and her relationship with Raphael, obviously.

Anyway you make good points.

I don't mind the Turtles finding human females attractive per se, but I'd rather not see them dating them. Like OK, in that season 3 episode of the FW series where April puts in a dress to atteenda costume party, they obviously like what they see. But that was done for comedic purposes really. It's not like they fell in love with her. And when they fall in love with Irma because they ate something sprayed with love potion, it was also done for comedic purposes.

[Leo656]

Well, what about the Mondo/Candy situation? They were both human (in the Archie canon), then he got mutated. She initially dumped him because "she just couldn't handle it." Then she came back to him because Love Conquers All and whatnot, and they stayed together until he died, and when he died it really affected her deeply.

"Inter-species" or not, I think that's still kinda beautiful, I'unno. I know you said you haven't read it, and that's Mondo and a human and not one of the Turtles with a human, I'm just saying. It's an example of Mutant/Human romance that was way more heartwarming than "icky" because of how it was written and what point they were trying to make. If it works in that context - and I'd argue that it does, for sure - then it's only a half-step to say a Turtle/Human relationship could just as easily be done proper.

These things take a very delicate hand, for sure, and the best of Archie is definitely Top Tier TMNT stuff (note I said "the Best of Archie"; like all TMNT there's still plenty of WTF in that book), I'm just giving examples. :)

[Prowler]

I am aware Mondo Gecko was originally a human in Archie yes. But didn't know about the rest.

Well, humans falling in love with "monsters" and such isn't anything new in fiction. The Beauty and the Beast was pretty popular as well.

I guess it just gets weird and gross when people start to imagine both parties having sex.

[Leo656]

It's their business. :lol: Life and love find a way.

So long as nobody involved is fat I don't think it's creepy.

[Prowler]

Well I definitely agree that I have no issues with furries and scalies. I don't think I've ever met one that actually wanted to have sex with real life animals. And even if they did... I mean if a woman wants to bang a horse I'd say she's at a bigger risk of getting injured or killed than the other way around. So I wouldn't worry too much about the horse myself.