Trump lawsuit launched

[Mayhem]

Well let's see if anything comes of this...!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-62986812

[ChosenOne]

Yes, I'm sure something will come out of this, just like it came out of the other 500 times. :roll:

It's frankly cartoonish at this point.

[Leo656]

I mean he's rich, what do people expect to happen?

[IndigoErth]

Unfortunately, I doubt anything will come of it. Same kind of stuff he's been doing his whole life and been handed get away free cards constantly. Only difference today is that he's got a cult following who pretends none of it is real, because god forbid the special little boy not actually be accountable for his BS. Exactly why he acts the way he does, even taking all that government info, because he's been shown his whole life that people will let him and that limits, laws, and common decency are not for him, just everyone else. He'd squash any one dozen(s) of those supporters in a heartbeat if it benefited him.

[ChosenOne]

Unfortunately, I doubt anything will come of it. Same kind of stuff he's been doing his whole life and been handed get away free cards constantly. Only difference today is that he's got a cult following who pretends none of it is real, because god forbid the special little boy not actually be accountable for his BS. Exactly why he acts the way he does, even taking all that government info, because he's been shown his whole life that people will let him and that limits, laws, and common decency are not for him, just everyone else. He'd squash any one dozen(s) of those supporters in a heartbeat if it benefited him.

:sleep::sleep::sleep:

Sorry, I dozed off. What were you saying about Obama?

[Andrew NDB]

Meaningless. Anybody can sue anybody for anything, anytime.

[Coola Yagami]

So is this like 'We got Him!!!' number... 25 or something? I lost track by now and honestly stopped caring.


It's been so ridiculously dragged out by now that if I ever legit see 'Trump gets arrested' as a headline I'd be more like 'huh. so that happened.' than 'YES!!! FINALLY'.

[IndigoErth]

:sleep::sleep::sleep:

Sorry, I dozed off. What were you saying about Obama?
Yeah, where? Because he's largely living in the background now, people don't talk about him much, and even the biggest supporters of him don't appear to be clinging to him after leaving power... unlike this other one the red hats won't get over.

But the loons among them are an irrational lot anyhow. Saw one a couple days ago online ask what if the documents Trump stole were the FBI proof of Democrats stealing the election. I'd like to think that person is an outlier who logic fails and can't connect the obvious dots, but...

Found it:

https://i.imgur.com/gw8Rds7.jpg

[Coola Yagami]

Yeah, where? Because he's largely living in the background now, people don't talk about him much, and even the biggest supporters of him don't appear to be clinging to him after leaving power... unlike this other one the red hats won't get over.

I mean.... it's the 'blue wave' that just can't shut up about him to be honest. Out of office for almost a year and he's still living rent-free in these people's heads.

[IndigoErth]

I'd love him for to stfu and go live his retirement, but god damn the man can't stand to exist without attention or other bs.

Crap, now that he's gotten in hot water for stealing boxes upon boxes of documents, info the government needs to protect itself and the nation's interests, he recently at random pulled out the old "I'll consider pardoning" Jan 6th Capitol attackers if he's reelected. Way to be COMPLETELY conspicuous with suddenly waving that carrot on a stick to make sure the support is still here. Equally obvious as that bible photo op stunt, just shallow pandering you'd think would insult people's intelligence, but nah.

[Leo656]

Yeah, it's pretty crazy people are so devout, he's a total carny. And an overgrown toddler. I just like him cuz he's good for my state's economy and I love watching the pink hairs go berserk every time he opens his mouth (or Twitter machine). But I mean, some people think he's legit, and that's pretty f*cking scary. :lol:

[ChosenOne]

Yeah, where? Because he's largely living in the background now, people don't talk about him much, and even the biggest supporters of him don't appear to be clinging to him after leaving power... unlike this other one the red hats won't get over.

But the loons among them are an irrational lot anyhow. Saw one a couple days ago online ask what if the documents Trump stole were the FBI proof of Democrats stealing the election. I'd like to think that person is an outlier who logic fails and can't connect the obvious dots, but...

Found it:

https://i.imgur.com/gw8Rds7.jpg

There's a world of difference between some dude y'all love to hate (only from 2015 forward, mind you) and believe made up **** about just 'cause the media tells you to even though his biggest sin is being a garish loudmouth, and the dude who drone striked the **** out of Middle Eastern countries, killed dozens if not hundreds of people, displaced thousands, got a Nobel Peace Prize for his efforts, and can now yak it up for the rest of his life with zero scrutiny or accountability. I'm sorry you can't see that. "Cult following" is right.

[Mayhem]

There's a world of difference between some dude y'all love to hate (only from 2015 forward, mind you)
Not really, I was aware Trump was a scuzzbucket long before he ran for office... it's only increased since.

[ChosenOne]

Not really, I was aware Trump was a scuzzbucket long before he ran for office... it's only increased since.

Well, rejoice! Now the economy is down, inflation is rampant and we're on the brink of a nuclear war, but at least the harmless buffoon you were conditioned to hate is no longer in office. You must be a happy man.

[Vegita-San]

Found it:

https://i.imgur.com/gw8Rds7.jpg

I honestly think there is a chance this could happen. Why? Oh, I don't know. the constant 6 year man hunt and have never been able to find a thing on him to use.

So yes, it would be totally ironic.

[IndigoErth]

I honestly think there is a chance this could happen. Why? Oh, I don't know. the constant 6 year man hunt and have never been able to find a thing on him to use.

So yes, it would be totally ironic.
And why would it make any sense? There's a rather huge problem with that person's theory...

If the FBI had documented proof the Dems rigged the election and Trump took that info on his way out, that means he
1) had access to the information while still in office and
2) knew what those documents were while still in office.

At which point he would have HAD access to the proof he needed yet failed to bring it forward, all while he wanted proof that he didn't lose the election and was so certain that other people outside of DC would find (or create) it for him.

In which case, the only way it could be true is if he did NOT actually want to be in office, but it's more lucrative via donations and support to outright play his supporters with a victim act.



And now he's on video trying to defend his claim about declassifying all that information and actually said he could do it just by thinking about it. What the actual f***.

Pretty sure that even while a president IN OFFICE is able to declassify something, it's a bit more technical than that and can't just be done telepathically! And even if he could do it just by thinking about it...I really doubt they'd have left DC with all those unaltered high classification labels still attached to them.

And going back to that person's question of him having proof Dems rigged the election, if he could use his mind powers to declassify it, then there's no reason he wouldn't have shared the evidence and put the whole thing to rest. Not to mention leaving it in DC would mean the archive would have been able to make it available to the public...along with all the rest of the real info he took (if truly declassified)...but he hid it at Mar-A-Lago instead. And people are avoiding asking why? Huh.


Though it has created a rather juicy illogical puzzle that's fun to try to put the logical pieces in place...

[Andrew NDB]

Pretty sure that even while a president IN OFFICE is able to declassify something, it's a bit more technical than that

No, it isn't. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.

[Leo656]

Not really, I was aware Trump was a scuzzbucket long before he ran for office... it's only increased since.

Let's be honest, the guy is a Professional Failure, that's his entire legacy. He managed to open up some successful casinos, and that's basically a turnkey operation, but every single initiative he's ever been behind otherwise has been an abysmal failure. Guy couldn't even sell steaks. He had a "hit" Reality Show during the Reality Show Boom where even people like Flava Flav and Brett Michaels had their own shows, but two years later and he wouldn't have even had that happen, that show was just right place/right time.

This has nothing to do with politics, it's just a statement of fact, the guy's objectively a trust fund moron who failed upwards in life. I find him entertaining but he's never independently achieved anything. If he'd been born poor he'd be nobody.

One reason I've spoke up in his defense now and again is simply because I recognize that MOST of the hate he gets is simply people hating on the rich for being rich, and I find that to be bullsh*t as well. There's a saying, and I'm paraphrasing, but it goes like, "Hating Rich People and Old People makes no sense either way, because if you're lucky you'll one day get to be BOTH of those things." And a lot of people - a LOT of people - specifically hate Trump BECAUSE he's a Trust Fund Moron with no marketable skills beyond running his fat mouth. And part of me gets it, it's vulgar on its face that such an obvious idiot can fail at everything he's ever tried and not only continue to float on a golden cloud but also become "The Boss", somehow. But hey, that's America. Anyone in his position would most likely be exactly like him, if they could get away with it.

So I find most of his critics to be disingenuous hypocrites; they're jealous, primarily, and the rest of the hate grows out of that seed.

But I mean c'mon... is he a good person? HAH. No. Is he even a COMPETENT person? HAH! No! He's just a buffoon who figured out how to game the system. That doesn't make him the Antichrist but I don't see how anyone could actually fall for his act and think he's anything more than a game show host, either.

[IndigoErth]

No, it isn't. Sorry to be the one to break it to you.
Well then feel free to post some links that inform the general public about how declassification is done. Esp that telepathic method.... I mean, do-tell.

I know some stuff after a long period of years (25?) supposedly get automatic declassification, but that probably doesn't include some (most?) high level material that's still sensitive and certainly not so soon.

Either way, if he really did declassify them...there was no reason to take the documents and hide them at his house rather than let the public have it available to read via archives.gov. If it was important enough to take and aren't personally damning, you'd think they'd be important enough to just let the American people know about.

[Andrew NDB]

Well then feel free to post some links that inform the general public about how declassification is done. Esp that telepathic method.... I mean, do-tell.


Super simple: no protocol. That's your answer.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/government-verify/how-us-presidents-can-declassify-documents-trump-mar-a-lago-search-fact-check/536-e1961390-e7c6-438a-b9b5-671dc9c6f7ec

[IndigoErth]

“He can just say, ‘I decide that this should be declassified,’ and it’s declassified,” McClanahan said.
But guaranteed that actually has to be communicated TO other people, those who see to it that those documents are actually changed in status within the record keeping, not him just thinking it to himself, no one else involved to see to it after he gives that 'order,' and that's somehow enough. If anyone thinks that is okay then they have no respect for this nation.

Though it remains to be seen that they were actually declassified at all. Because that photo from Mar-a-lago of a bunch of spread out documents still covered with the words "top secret" and others blanked out in the image say otherwise.

However, presidents generally follow an informal protocol when declassifying documents, Richard Immerman, a historian and professor at Temple University, told VERIFY.

First, the president will consult all departments and agencies that have an interest in a classified document. Those departments or agencies then provide their assessment as to whether the document should stay classified for national security reasons. If there is a dispute among the agencies, they debate, but the president ultimately makes the decision on declassification, Immerman explained.

When documents are declassified, they are reviewed line-by-line. In many cases, certain words, sentences and paragraphs remain redacted, even if the document is declassified, Immerman said.
Yeah, I know he isn't one who is going to act professionally about anything, but it's certainly why the nation shouldn't be run by a reality show host.



https://i.imgur.com/lIcsSS5.jpg

https://www.archives.gov/isoo/faqs

How can I identify Classified National Security Information?

There should be a classification marking on the top and bottom of every page of the document. Very old documents may have the markings only on the top of the first page. In more recent documents, individual paragraphs may also be marked with markings like “(S)” for Secret or “(C)” for Confidential.

The document should not be marked as declassified. A declassification marking should look like an official stamp that indicates the name and office of the person who authorized the declassification action. A copy of a declassified document from the National Archives and Records Administration should include a marking that includes a project number starting with “NND” or “NW.”

Are the visible Top Secret documents in the image marked as declassified? Don't look like it to me.

[Leo656]

Man, an' I seen homies get fired for taking home scotch tape and printer paper from work. :lol:

[Andrew NDB]

But guaranteed that actually has to be communicated TO other people, those who see to it that those documents are actually changed in status within the record keeping, not him just thinking it to himself, no one else involved to see to it after he gives that 'order,' and that's somehow enough. If anyone thinks that is okay then they have no respect for this nation.

Just because you want there to be all these protocols -- or any protocol -- in place for presidential declassification doesn't will that into being.

Are the visible Top Secret documents in the image marked as declassified? Don't look like it to me.

They don't need to be marked as declassified. A President saying, "All the documents I've brought to Mar A Lago are hereby declassified" covers that. You don't believe he told that to anybody? Well, the burden of proving he didn't say that is on you, not him to prove that he did. Because again, no protocol.

[IndigoErth]

Right... tell that to the special master who is requesting the proof, that his lawyers aren't giving, as the burden definitely looks like it's on him given his actions are being investigated.

Did you really just take religious style "burden on you to prove it's not!" nuttery and apply it to this...

Man, an' I seen homies get fired for taking home scotch tape and printer paper from work. :lol:
Right? Little person does something and it's a big deal real fast. Friend of my mom once even got let go after she asked for a 50 cent raise.

[Leo656]

Also, as a general rule I am not comfortable with even the idea that "There is no protocol regarding what Is and Isn't Classified and how it can be Declassified and by Whom." Common sense would suggest there in fact be some kind of protocol regarding that kind of thing... right?

......Right?! :shifty:

[Andrew NDB]

Also, as a general rule I am not comfortable with even the idea that "There is no protocol regarding what Is and Isn't Classified and how it can be Declassified and by Whom." Common sense would suggest there in fact be some kind of protocol regarding that kind of thing... right?

Oh no, there is. Just not when it comes to the President himself, solo, declassifying documents. It's one of the very few "anything goes, anytime" powers a president actually has and this has always been the case.

Did you really just take religious style "burden on you to prove it's not!" nuttery and apply it to this...

But legally speaking that's exactly where we're at.

[Leo656]

I'll trust you since there's an entire system set up to keep people like me from ever being President, and so I'll never know for myself how it works. :lol:

...Although, not too long ago there was an entire system set up to keep people like TRUMP from ever being President, too, and look how that turned out. :lol: So maybe I still have a shot! :trazz:

[Mayhem]

Super simple: no protocol. That's your answer.

https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/government-verify/how-us-presidents-can-declassify-documents-trump-mar-a-lago-search-fact-check/536-e1961390-e7c6-438a-b9b5-671dc9c6f7ec
I'm getting a big fat access denied doesn't exist error on that link.

[IndigoErth]

I'm getting a big fat access denied doesn't exist error on that link.

Must not be available elsewhere, I see it and will copy/paste:

Yes, the president can declassify documents, but there isn’t a set protocol they have to follow

Former President Trump claimed documents found at Mar-a-Lago were “all declassified.” We explain why sitting presidents can declassify documents and how it works.


Author: Megan Loe
Published: 3:05 PM EDT August 18, 2022
Updated: 6:24 PM EDT August 23, 2022
Facebook Twitter

FBI agents took 11 sets of classified records from former President Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago estate during a search on Aug. 8, court records revealed.

In a post on Truth Social, his social media platform, Trump later claimed that the documents were “all declassified.” Kash Patel, who served as chief of staff for the acting defense secretary during the Trump administration, also claimed that Trump had declassified the documents.

While it still may not be legal for Trump to possess declassified documents from his presidency, many VERIFY readers, including Beverly and Carole, asked whether the president can declassify documents while in office.
THE QUESTION

Can the president declassify documents?
THE SOURCES

U.S. Department of the Navy v. Egan
Executive Order 13526
Kel McClanahan, executive director of the National Security Counselors, a nonprofit public interest law firm
Richard Immerman, Edward J. Buthusiem Family Distinguished Faculty Fellow in History at Temple University
The New York Times, et al., v. Central Intelligence Agency

THE ANSWER


This is true.

Yes, the president can declassify documents while in office, but there isn’t a set protocol they have to follow.

Sign up for the VERIFY Fast Facts daily Newsletter!
WHAT WE FOUND

The U.S. classification system has three levels: top secret, secret and confidential.

“That is based on the level of damage that its release would cause to the national security of the United States,” Kel McClanahan, executive director of the National Security Counselors, said. “When you classify a document, that means that only people with a security clearance equal to the classification or higher can read it.”

A sitting U.S. president has wide-ranging authority to classify and declassify certain documents, but former presidents do not have authority over classification and declassification.

Current presidents can classify documents as long as they can “make a plausible argument that it is related to national security.” On the other hand, the president “doesn’t have to give any reason for declassifying” information, according to McClanahan.

“He can just say, ‘I decide that this should be declassified,’ and it’s declassified,” McClanahan said.

A 2009 executive order directs the head of a government agency that originally deemed information classified to oversee its declassification, and sets some rules for that process. But those protocols outlined in the executive order don’t apply to the president, McClanahan said.

However, presidents generally follow an informal protocol when declassifying documents, Richard Immerman, a historian and professor at Temple University, told VERIFY.

First, the president will consult all departments and agencies that have an interest in a classified document. Those departments or agencies then provide their assessment as to whether the document should stay classified for national security reasons. If there is a dispute among the agencies, they debate, but the president ultimately makes the decision on declassification, Immerman explained.

More from VERIFY: No, Florida Gov. DeSantis didn’t defend FBI Mar-a-Lago search on ‘Hannity’

When documents are declassified, they are reviewed line-by-line. In many cases, certain words, sentences and paragraphs remain redacted, even if the document is declassified, Immerman said.

The Supreme Court determined in its 1988 decision on Department of the Navy v. Egan that the president’s power over classified information comes from executive authority granted by Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution, which says, in part, that the “President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States.”

“His authority to classify and control access to information bearing on national security and to determine whether an individual is sufficiently trustworthy to occupy a position in the Executive Branch that will give that person access to such information flows primarily from this constitutional investment of power in the President, and exists quite apart from any explicit congressional grant,” the Supreme Court decision reads.

Though there aren’t specific protocols that the president must follow to declassify a document, federal courts have ruled that they will “refuse to recognize what they consider to be an inference of declassification,” McClanahan said.

The U.S. Second Circuit Court of Appeals wrote in a 2020 decision about whether statements made by then-President Trump declassified the existence of a CIA program that “declassification, even by the president, must follow established procedures.”

If a document is declassified, that doesn’t automatically mean it can be shared widely, either. For example, nuclear information – which is generally classified – is also protected by the federal Atomic Energy Act of 1954, McClanahan explained.

The Washington Post reported the FBI searched Mar-a-Lago for “nuclear documents,” among other classified information.

“Because [nuclear information] has this dual protection, even if you declassify a nuclear document, you cannot disseminate it because it’s still what’s called Restricted Data,” McClanahan said.

“So to the extent that he [Trump] had any nuclear information in there, declassification would not help him in the slightest, because he would still be disseminating restricted data or moving Restricted Data,” he added.

There are other federal laws in place that bar a president from taking government records, whether they are classified or declassified. Still, breaking those laws – or most other laws – doesn’t automatically disqualify someone from becoming president, because of the simple presidential qualifications that are outlined in the U.S. Constitution.

[IMJ]

He should've declassified alien stuff.

Everyone, even the life-angry, would've been behind that info.

[Vegita-San]

bingo. unless it's so scary they think we are not ready for it.

[Leo656]

The world isn't ready to find out that Jiffy-Pop came from outer space. We're simply not ready to deal with that.

[Andrew NDB]

It'd be a nice pulling off of the band-aid, though.

[Mayhem]

Trump subpoenaed to testify…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63251303

[IMJ]

bingo. unless it's so scary they think we are not ready for it.

If that's even remotely the truth, then we'd already be dead or worse.

[1987]

Trump subpoenaed to testify…

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-63251303

Trump Files Lawsuit to Avoid Jan. 6 Committee Subpoena

https://www.newsmax.com/newsfront/capitol-riot-investigation/2022/11/11/id/1096042/

People like to compare Hillary’s trial to Trump, that Hillary was so stunning and brave to testify but we all know (D)’s get special treatment in the courtroom.

You think Trump would get a fair, unbiased trial?

Now J6 committe weighs next steps after Trump defied J6 committee and failed to comply with subpoena

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/jan-6-committee-trump-subpoena_n_6372d99ce4b09c4db1799fb1/amp

Wonder what happens with the J6 committee now that he’s announced he’s running in 2024

[ChosenOne]

An assassination attempt before 2024 isn't out of the realm of possibility.