Were the 1987 TMNT actually brothers?

[Anarchistguy]

Now it's well established that in every version (except The Next Mutation) that the TMNT are brothers. But I always wondered if that was the case in the 1987 cartoon. I'm asking because I noticed that in that incarnation, they always referred to each other as friends.

What do you guys think?

[oldmanwinters]

I’m gonna say.. probably not.

[frank_one]

I've never intended them as biological siblings, neither in the 1987 cartoon nor in other versions. I'm not sure it has ever been implied that they can remember their life before the mutation.

[neatoman]

Biologically, who really knows? The same goes for just about any other iterations of the franchise. If they were newly hatched, I'm guessing the odds of them being from the same brood is fairly high, I just don't know what pet store policy is on this. I'm just going to assume the odds of them being biological brothers lies somewhere between 50 and 80%?

As for whether or not they consider themselves brothers? Compared to other iterations where it is explicitly made clear (Raphael literally uses the word brothers in issue one of Mirage, so it's not something made up after the show started airing), it is not too obvious in the Fred Wolf cartoon. I guess technically you could make the argument that they live together and always have, thus it's implicit. But that applies for all the other iterations too, and in Fred Wolf they don't refer to each other as brothers or Splinter as father even once as far as I can tell, in anything they seem to actively avoid using familial terms entirely. Words like "buds" or "pals" seem to be thrown around a lot more. So if there is one thing that is relatively unique to the Fred Wolf show, that would be it, an implicit lack of family bonds.

[MikeandRaph87]

I’m gonna say.. probably not.

You know, aside from Next Mutation that went out of it's way in order for Venus to to be at the center of a love triangle its not addressed formally.


In the 1987 cartoon both Michelangelo and Raphael have birthdays on different days so they might be born in different clutches if they are actual siblings. It's possible that the four of them have the same parents and each came from the 4 cluches of one laying season. Perhaps it's over thinking it, but did Eastman and/or Laird consider them full blooded brothers when they crafted the backstop in late 1983?

[IndigoErth]

Unknown, nor would they know.

Personally, I prefer to believe they are. Esp way back in the 80s, I don't really recall big chain pet stores being a much of a thing yet, so where they came from as regular turtles could have just been a local breeder or owner who sold some babies to a local shop, increasing the odds that they are related siblings.

But do they have other siblings who only went on to remain pets..?


The ages though? At least as claimed by the toy card backs... I've just held a fun theory that they come from the same parents, but hatched different seasons. Since it's illegal to sell turtles under a certain size, then it indicates their growth rates that they then were sold together. Leo being a slow and steady type (sounds like him, huh) and the oldest, Mikey the foodie grew faster than average and caught up to the other three, and Donnie and Raph, the two possible nest mates, were average growth rate.

[neatoman]

In the 1987 cartoon both Michelangelo and Raphael have birthdays on different days so they might be born in different clutches if they are actual siblings.

How... Would they know that? Wouldn't that require them to know exact dates from when they were still regular turtles?

[Zog The Magnificent]

I always lean towards "Not brothers" in this interpretation. This is due to the fact that the show goes out of its way to avoid familial terms. They never refer to each other as brothers, they only call Splinter "sensai," and when the 2003 turtles called Splinter "father" in Turtles Forever, they reacted with surprise. They only had a Teacher-Student relationship with Splinter, and they came across more as roommates and good friends than an actual family.

[Jester]

I remember Splinter using the phrase "brother turtles" in one episode of the Fred Wolf series...but I can't remember which.

Google points me to Green With Jealousy:

Splinter (to Donatello): Pray that it works, my son. The fate of April, your brother Turtles and the entire world rests on its success! *beat* But don't feel you're under any pressure.

That reseach also pointed to the 2 episodes where the turtles are de-aged as times the Turtles called eachother brothers...even if it was the kid Turtles calling them big brothers.

[Andrew NDB]

How... Would they know that? Wouldn't that require them to know exact dates from when they were still regular turtles?

I've been asking that for years. Of the people pondering which Turtle is the "oldest" and different ages for each. How could they possibly know... in ANY universe?

Of course, the overwhelming likelihood is that 4 identically sized red earred sliders in one particular pet shop all came from the same batch of eggs hatching at roughly the same exact time.

[newfan]

I remember ths conversation being one that was never resolved, it's just going to be how you take it. I mean, were the writers thinking about them being biological or not, where exactly each egg came from or was it just that they were 4 brothers?

Personally I just asumed they are, unless anything says otherwise, why can't they have come from the same batch of eggs?

[frank_one]

In the end it doesn't even matter.

[oldmanwinters]

Unless Splinter just decided to make up birthdays for each turtle, I think it's fair to say they didn't hatch at the same time.

Even the original Playmates Toys bios had to given the turtles different ages.
https://i.imgur.com/GK4SFDph.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/KrNyGvrh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/Vq6emmEh.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/n1ym5vzh.jpg

[IndigoErth]

While I always liked coming up with reasonable explanations (such as my just for fun age theory), those darn separate pet shops as a "birthplace" always did have to throw a wrench in the logic. lol

What, did the kid who buy them go on a family road trip and buy a turtle in each town they stopped in??

[oldmanwinters]

While I always liked coming up with reasonable explanations (such as my just for fun age theory), those darn separate pet shops as a "birthplace" always did have to throw a wrench in the logic. lol

What, did the kid who buy them go on a family road trip and buy a turtle in each town they stopped in??

Perhaps the pet shops were famous turtle breeders and they ended up sending baby turtles all over the country, and those four just happened to end up in a NYC pet shop to be purchased together before that fateful day when they all went down into the sewer?

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

What if Splinter gave them the same birthdays as the Renaissance artists they are named after?

[The Deadman]

Weren't they referred to as brothers in all of the movies? Pretty sure they were at one point.

[oldmanwinters]

What if Splinter gave them the same birthdays as the Renaissance artists they are named after?

I don’t think the birthdays of Raphael or Donatello are historically recorded but I like the idea!

[Anarchistguy]

Weren't they referred to as brothers in all of the movies? Pretty sure they were at one point.

Yes but we're talking about the 1987 cartoon TMNT.

[Prowler]

One thing that always bothered me in the FW series was how the Turtles referred to each other as friends instead of brothers.

I don't care about the biological aspect since that's not the point. Fmaimy doesn't necessarily have to be blood related. Splinter is their "father" in most versions and it's obvious he's not biologically related to them. April in the 2k3 series has told Leonardo they were fmaoly at least once and again, she sure as hell isn't biologically related to the Turtles or Splinter.

To me the Turtles are clearly brothers. Whether they're biologically related or not. They grew up together and were raised by the same rat. They don't know who their biological parents are.

[Anarchistguy]

One thing that always bothered me in the FW series was how the Turtles referred to each other as friends instead of brothers.

I don't care about the biological aspect since that's not the point. Fmaimy doesn't necessarily have to be blood related. Splinter is their "father" in most versions and it's obvious he's not biologically related to them. April in the 2k3 series has told Leonardo they were fmaoly at least once and again, she sure as hell isn't biologically related to the Turtles or Splinter.

To me the Turtles are clearly brothers. Whether they're biologically related or not. They grew up together and were raised by the same rat. They don't know who their biological parents are.

I didn't even know they were brothers until I started reading the Archie Comics, which even though were based on the FW show, still had the standard TMNT fare such as:

-The TMNT being brothers
-The TMNT calling each other by their nicknames
-Raph being the angry Turtle.

[IndigoErth]

One thing that always bothered me in the FW series was how the Turtles referred to each other as friends instead of brothers.
Same, in a way it sorta feels like it puts a little distance in their bond, like it lessened it slightly? Something like that.

Even weirder to me is when Splinter referred to them as friends. I don't think it happend very many times, but that one bothered me even more. Way to remove yourself from being their father figure, Splinter. Grow up raised by someone you consider your parent, even if they weren't or never formally adopted you, then one day it's just "nah, I'm just your friend." Oh, wow, real nice, thanks. lol

Fmaimy... fmaoly...
You okay? :trazz:

[Coola Yagami]

Even weirder to me is when Splinter referred to them as friends. I don't think it happend very many times, but that one bothered me even more. Way to remove yourself from being their father figure, Splinter. Grow up raised by someone you consider your parent, even if they weren't or never formally adopted you, then one day it's just "nah, I'm just your friend." Oh, wow, real nice, thanks. lol




That part has always sounded weird to me. Even in the OT, Splinter still had that 'sensei' type respect. Like you just can't call him rat-face dude-guy. :lol: , you have to show the proper respect. So it's weird when he breaks that 'code' and just refers to them as friends.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Well, it’s possible that they all came from the same turtle farm, as Leonardo once said in “Next Mutation” (different universe I know). At the end of episode “Turtles, Turtles Everywhere”, Michelangelo tearfully said to April that the sea turtle reminded him of his mom. Notice that he didn’t say “our” mom.

[oldmanwinters]

Well, it’s possible that they all came from the same turtle farm, as Leonardo once said in “Next Mutation” (different universe I know). At the end of episode “Turtles, Turtles Everywhere”, Michelangelo tearfully said to April that the sea turtle reminded him of his mom. Notice that he didn’t say “our” mom.

I suppose Mikey would have a legit chance of having lingering memories of pre-mutation life since he remembered subconsciously the presence of the gecko who would become Mondo in the sewer lair.