April 2023 Solicitations

[hypered1]

TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES #139

https://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/TMNT-139_Cover-A_rich-395x600.jpg

Sophie Campbell (w) • Fero Peniche (a/ca)

Enter the Endgame! Ch'rell's forces descend upon a Mutant Town already ravaged by nonstop riots in the wake of the Imposter Turtles' attacks. Now, skirting Donatello's best defenses, the Utroms are closing in on Seri, the hunted Triceraton Regenta. Meanwhile, the Rat King's quest for chaos has culminated at the reunited Turtles' doorstep, and they have no choice but to take the fight to him! Can Donnie rally Mikey, Leo, and Raph and their allies to quell the Utrom invasion? The Armageddon Game enters its end stage!

FC • 32 pages • $3.99 • Available April 19th, 2023


TEENAGE MUTANT NINJA TURTLES ARMAGEDDON GAME 7 (of 8 )

https://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/TMNT-The-Armageddon-Game-07_Cover-A_rich-395x600.jpg

Tom Waltz (w) • Vincenzo Federici (a/ca)

Chaos Reigns! Despite the best efforts of Oroku Saki and the tenacious Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, New York City teeters on the edge of anarchy. The Rat King and his trio of terror have outmaneuvered the heroes at every stage, and now his vision of a world in ruin is well within reach! Soon, his siblings, the Pantheon, will have no choice but to play his game! Can the TMNT find a way to stop the apocalypse, or will disorder rule the day? It all comes to a head in the penultimate issue of The Armageddon Game!

FC • 36 pages • $4.99 • Available April 12th, 2023.


TMNT ARMAGEDDON GAME ALLIANCE #6 (of 6)

https://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/TMNT-The-Armageddon-Game-Alliance-06_Cover-A_rich-395x600.jpghttps://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/TMNT-The-Armageddon-Game-Alliance-06_Cover-B_rich-395x600.jpg

Paul Allor (w) • Pablo Verdugo (a) • Roi Mercado (ca)

Spurred by the looming threat of the Rat King's Armageddon Game, Oroku Karai set out to fortify the Foot Clan by building an alliance she could trust. But now, as the chaos god and his trio of terror tighten their grasp on New York City, Karai must choose: align with an old enemy or watch the world fall to the ultimate evil. Battle lines are drawn here in the epic final issue of The Alliance as The Armageddon Game nears its end!

FC • 32 pages • $3.99 • Available April 5th, 2023.


TMNT USAGI YOJIMBO WHEREWHEN #1

https://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/TMNT-Usagi_WhereWhen-01_Cover-A_rich-500x387.jpg

Stan Sakai (w/a/ca)

The Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles pursue the evil cyborg genius Dr. WhereWhen through a time portal...and emerge in feudal Japan! There, they encounter Usagi Yojimbo, 20 years into the samurai's future but decades after the arrival of Dr. WhereWhen... who has already carved himself a fiefdom using mechanized clockwork samurai robots... with the intention of conquering both the past and current timelines!

FC • 36 pages • $4.99 • Available April 12th, 2023.


TMNT THE LAST RONIN - THE LOST YEARS #3 (of 5)

https://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/TMNT_TLR-TLY-03_Cover-A_rich.jpg

Kevin Eastman (w) • Ben Bishop (a) • Kevin Eastman (ca)

THE TALE OF THE LAST RONIN'S FIRST MISSION CONTINUES! In the past: Michelangelo's quest for vengeance takes him further westward and the fighting forms he's mastered thus far will prove invaluable as he faces yet another adversary. Nothing will stand in the way of his quest to return to New York City and avenge his family for the fates suffered at the hands of the Foot Clan except maybe the chiding voices of his dead brothers. Meanwhile, in the present (a.k.a. our future!), Casey Marie Jones does her best to rear the next generation of Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as both their master and surrogate mother and she's finding she's not sure which undertaking is more difficult! Writers Kevin Eastman and Tom Waltz, alongside artists Ben Bishop (TMNT: The Last Ronin) and S.L. Gallant (G.I. Joe: A Real American Hero), continue this tantalizing tale of the beginnings of the Last Ronin.

FC • 36 pages • $4.99 • Available April 19th, 2023.


TMNT THE LAST RONIN - THE LOST YEARS DIRECTOR'S CUT #1



Kevin Eastman (w) • Ben Bishop, SL Gallant (a) • Kevin Eastman (ca)

Revisit the first chapter of the Last Ronin's storied journey in this epic, in-depth director's cut edition of TMNT: The Last Ronin's Lost Years #1. Enjoy all the original content newly paired with never-before-seen artifacts from the desks of Kevin Eastman, SL Gallant, and Ben Bishop.
This title will be standard trim size, not the oversized format of The Last Ronin series.

FC • 52 pages • $5.99 • Available April 26th, 2023.


MMPR TMNT II #5 (of 5)

https://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/MMPR-TMNT-II-05_Cover-A_rich-500x384.jpg

Ryan Parrott (w) • Dan Mora (a/ca)

Forbidden alliances collide as radically enhanced, mind blowing Zord combinations battle it out!
Reunited friends face Krang as a true force to be reckoned with-but will it be enough to send him back to Dimension X?

FC • 36 pages • $4.99 • Available April 26th, 2023.


TMNT BEST OF TMNT COLLECTION TP VOL 03

https://tmnt-ninjaturtles.com/assets/TMNT-Best-of-Vol.-03-TPB_Cover-Regular_rich-395x600.jpg

Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird, Tom Waltz, Brian Lynch, Sophie Campbell (w) • Kevin Eastman, Peter Laird (a) • James Biggie (ca)

This collection digs into the dark underbelly of the Turtles' New York, focusing on Leatherhead, Baxter Stockman, Rat King, and of course, the sinister Shredder! Gathering stories from their almost 40-year history, see the characters develop from their early roots in the original comics to their monstrous present day incarnations. Delve into issues from the original Mirage series, TMNT Adventures, and Tales of the TMNT to IDW's current ongoing universe. Uncover crucial tales of tragic occasional TMNT ally Leatherhead, conniving scientist Baxter Stockman, the otherworldly Rat King, and the Turtles' archnemesis, Shredder!

FC • 376 pages • $29.99 • Available April 26th, 2023.

[ChosenOne]

That #139 cover is gorgeous, but I'm not sure I like what it seems to entail...

Stoked to see Bebop and Rocksteady back in the spotlight!

And just a heads up, hypered1, there are solicitations for #140, AG #8 and more floating around out there since last week. No cover images yet, though.

[hypered1]

That #139 cover is gorgeous, but I'm not sure I like what it seems to entail...

Stoked to see Bebop and Rocksteady back in the spotlight!

And just a heads up, hypered1, there are solicitations for #140, AG #8 and more floating around out there since last week. No cover images yet, though.

Those issues will be in the May thread in a few weeks time.

[ChosenOne]

Those issues will be in the May thread in a few weeks time.

Figured as much, just wanted to point it out in case you didn't already know.

[CyberCubed]

Usagi issue is 20 years into his future? Man we're getting an endgame for Usagi, that's bigger news than anything here.

The main stuff is kinda a mixed bag so far, I really hope this arc has a big conclusion because if it's just all the villains walking away again like nothing happened it'll make the entire arc feel pointless. I don't know if I can handle Rat King just laughing to himself saying, "And the games will continue" again for another 50 issues.

[neatoman]

The Alliance is getting a sixth issue out of a total of five? How does that work?

[hypered1]

The Alliance is getting a sixth issue out of a total of five? How does that work?

Thanks, I fixed it.

[CyberCubed]

How does IDW afford to put out so many TMNT comics a month? There's 3 for the main series (the ongoing, Alliance, and Armaggeddon game), now Last Ronin series, Saturday Morning Adventures based on the original cartoon, and then usually some crossovers with Usagi or Power Rangers, etc...in addition to all the collections.

I remember people saying IDW needed to scale back TMNT releases and they did for awhile. Now we're getting more TMNT comics than ever.

[AquaParade]

How does IDW afford to put out so many TMNT comics a month? There's 3 for the main series (the ongoing, Alliance, and Armaggeddon game), now Last Ronin series, Saturday Morning Adventures based on the original cartoon, and then usually some crossovers with Usagi or Power Rangers, etc...in addition to all the collections.

I remember people saying IDW needed to scale back TMNT releases and they did for awhile. Now we're getting more TMNT comics than ever.

Because they are their best-sellers. Follow the money.

[oldmanwinters]

You might say TMNT is one of those evergreen IPs!

[ChosenOne]

You might say TMNT is one of those evergreen IPs!

As long as fans are willing to shell out.

[IMJ]

How does IDW afford to put out so many TMNT comics a month? There's 3 for the main series (the ongoing, Alliance, and Armaggeddon game), now Last Ronin series, Saturday Morning Adventures based on the original cartoon, and then usually some crossovers with Usagi or Power Rangers, etc...in addition to all the collections.

I remember people saying IDW needed to scale back TMNT releases and they did for awhile. Now we're getting more TMNT comics than ever.

They, like all publishers are doubling down by expanding vertically - basically they are extracting as much as possible from the remaining, neurotic readership through a series of variants where they buy the same book at least 3 times every month. And after that, when that works for a publisher, then they add more titles from the same I.P. to their slate and extract more dollars from the same neurotic readership who were already buying multiple copies.

Think about how effective this is to propagate the lie that the readership is "huge". Even if all a publisher did was release one variant a month they've doubled their readership numbers. Now add-in ratio variants where a store has to hit an order point and you've inflated the readership numbers even more at the order level. In 2022 IDW released 214 titles across their publishing line. Now tack on even only one variant and one retailer incentive per title and right there you've got 642 releases, 428 of which are the same interior pages but with a new poster wrapped around the outside. Or even worse, some of that sale was Trades, so you can take a swath out of those 214 titles down to actual monthly books somewhere.

TMNT #125 shipped close to 23,841 copies. That title had a variant as well as a 1:10 ratio variant. Consider all of that and you'll see that TMNT doesn't even have remotely close to 23,000 readers. The hobby is extracting more units per capita because of variant cover exploitation and extracting more dollars per capita because of increased pricing as well as collectors buying the same comic book 3 - 5 times a month.

And so, when they tell you that a book is "successful", it's true by marketing standards, but not by the standards of consumer buying behavior or a quality measure that counts. You can't dictate "sales from quality" when you've synthetically inflated the sales to a neurotically-completist audience. And not only that, but don't think the title is even selling to actual readers at even those numbers - all you have to do is go into your LCS and you'll find TMNT books still on the wall from months ago, and then eventually snuck into their bins as back issues. IDW is getting by from extracting every penny from a diminished readership - as are most publishers.

I guarantee that the TMNT readership is so small - probably 6,000 readers globally - so small that if every collectors somehow turned off the crazy-consumer-switch in their brain and stopped buying any variants monthly, the title would have to be cancelled. Or they'd raise the price to $9.99 an issue a month so as to keep their strongest I.P. alive.

[TomWaltz]

They, like all publishers are doubling down by expanding vertically - basically they are extracting as much as possible from the remaining, neurotic readership through a series of variants where they buy the same book at least 3 times every month. And after that, when that works for a publisher, then they add more titles from the same I.P. to their slate and extract more dollars from the same neurotic readership who were already buying multiple copies.

Think about how effective this is to propagate the lie that the readership is "huge". Even if all a publisher did was release one variant a month they've doubled their readership numbers. Now add-in ratio variants where a store has to hit an order point and you've inflated the readership numbers even more at the order level. In 2022 IDW released 214 titles across their publishing line. Now tack on even only one variant and one retailer incentive per title and right there you've got 642 releases, 428 of which are the same interior pages but with a new poster wrapped around the outside. Or even worse, some of that sale was Trades, so you can take a swath out of those 214 titles down to actual monthly books somewhere.

TMNT #125 shipped close to 23,841 copies. That title had a variant as well as a 1:10 ratio variant. Consider all of that and you'll see that TMNT doesn't even have remotely close to 23,000 readers. The hobby is extracting more units per capita because of variant cover exploitation and extracting more dollars per capita because of increased pricing as well as collectors buying the same comic book 3 - 5 times a month.

And so, when they tell you that a book is "successful", it's true by marketing standards, but not by the standards of consumer buying behavior or a quality measure that counts. You can't dictate "sales from quality" when you've synthetically inflated the sales to a neurotically-completist audience. And not only that, but don't think the title is even selling to actual readers at even those numbers - all you have to do is go into your LCS and you'll find TMNT books still on the wall from months ago, and then eventually snuck into their bins as back issues. IDW is getting by from extracting every penny from a diminished readership - as are most publishers.

I guarantee that the TMNT readership is so small - probably 6,000 readers globally - so small that if every collectors somehow turned off the crazy-consumer-switch in their brain and stopped buying any variants monthly, the title would have to be cancelled. Or they'd raise the price to $9.99 an issue a month so as to keep their strongest I.P. alive.

Nope. Sorry -- appreciate your negative enthusiasm, but TMNT is legitimately and consistently doing pretty darn good for us... in some cases, far better than expected (and our expectations were already pretty high). Specifically, there's a heavy demand for those RE covers -- retailers are coming to us, asking for more, which leads me to believe they are successfully selling them to collectors and fans. And I gotta say, the TMNT RE covers our amazing participating retailers are putting together are some of the nicest in the biz (then again, I may be biased).

Generally speaking, it's honestly a great time to be a TMNT fan and creator right now... across multiple mediums. Lots going on behind the scenes... far more than has been announced publicly, and not just at IDW. I cannot wait to show off (or enjoy as a TMNT fan myself) all the cool stuff in the works.

Then again, I only work at IDW (and on some of the other secret non-IDW projects), so what do I know? Could be I have this all wrong. Maybe you're being invited to meetings I'm not?

I'm sure I'll still be called a liar (wouldn't be the first time on this forum). That's okay. I know I'm telling the truth... just as I know there are tons of fellow fans, creators -- and many, many awesome retailers -- out there enjoying this crazy ride alongside me right now. We're having fun!

Turtle power!

Talk soon...

Tom W.

[TomWaltz]

As long as fans are willing to shell out.

And we truly, TRULY appreciate every single fan who does. We're in this together. One big TMNT family.

Talk soon...

Tom W.

[AquaParade]

Man, IMJ is striking out all over the board lol. Too aggressive. Doesn’t think clearly.

Don’t worry, Tom (I know you won’t), but go look at his comments in the DC movie thread, if you wanna know what you’re dealing with. Guy doesn’t do his research, he just spouts.
He’s probably about to blame you for the sales information not being clear, even though no one forced him to argue sales were low.

Also failed to take into account how well the trade paperback and hardcover collections are selling.

TLR is on The NY Times Best Seller list, the new issue is the #1 “comics and graphic novels” seller on Amazon (above Batman’s current issue), where there are no variants, and the most recent IDW hardcover collections was a top seller for a few weeks on many online stores, like IST.
That’s great incentive to pump out more books.

The line is doing well.

[ChosenOne]

And we truly, TRULY appreciate every single fan who does. We're in this together. One big TMNT family.

Talk soon...

Tom W.

Keep the good stuff coming and I'll be there for it, Tom! :) I’m really enjoying Armageddon Game across all the titles!

[Cowabung-Gal]

Oh, no doubt “The Last Ronin” is selling like hot cakes, and for good reason: it’s a darn good TMNT story, the best in years. :tgrin:

And maybe the newest “Saturday Morning Adventures” is making good money too since it’s a decent series that leaves the older fans feeling nostalgic plus it’s for all ages so younger fans can enjoy it too.

[Andrew NDB]

This collection digs into the dark underbelly of the Turtles' New York, focusing on Leatherhead, Baxter Stockman, Rat King, and of course, the sinister Shredder! Gathering stories from their almost 40-year history, see the characters develop from their early roots in the original comics to their monstrous present day incarnations. Delve into issues from the original Mirage series, TMNT Adventures, and Tales of the TMNT to IDW's current ongoing universe. Uncover crucial tales of tragic occasional TMNT ally Leatherhead, conniving scientist Baxter Stockman, the otherworldly Rat King, and the Turtles' archnemesis, Shredder!

I don't think whoever wrote that blurb is very familiar with TMNT.

[Cowabung-Gal]

And we truly, TRULY appreciate every single fan who does. We're in this together. One big TMNT family.

Talk soon...

Tom W.

You can count on me buying every issue of “The Last Ronin: Lost Years”, Mr. Waltz. That’s definitely something worth spending money on during inflation.

Every single variant? That’s a bit difficult. :lol:

[CyberCubed]

Someone needs to get DC animation/Nick to make a sequel to the Batman/TMNT crossover movie. It ended on a cliffhanger of Shredder falling into Joker venom and becoming a Shredder Joker hybrid and we never got a sequel after like 5 years.

[IMJ]

Nothing that was said changes my point about variant covers and artificially inflated book sales. Nothing. The point still stands and is an industry-wide mathematical truth.
And if TMNT readership is truly over 6,000 unique sets of eyes, I'd love to see evidence of that.

Also - Industry Trouble: IDW Reports Major Losses (https://boundingintocomics.com/2023/01/31/industry-trouble-idw-publishing-reports-major-losses/)

Look, I don't wish any harm on IDW at all. I don't wish for their failure, and it's enough for me to not buy liberal-agenda books or order them for my own sales endeavors (I order ZERO IDW titles monthly, ZERO). But to draw the battle lines over consumer exploitation practices like "Variant covers" is nonsense. Of course they are going to come here and say they are doing great - it's the best business model to look like that's where the party is at. Also to deny what I've said about vertical integration and targeting the wallets of the existing readership is nonsense as well. Denying that as a publishing model is 100% disingenuous spin. I am sure though that IDW does appreciate every reader who buys a TMNT book - a concept I understand 100% and I would never deny them that.

Here (https://d2ghdaxqb194v2.cloudfront.net/2469/189062.pdf) is the IDW Quaterly and Fiscal Year Report. It's simple - in an environment of declining readership you focus on extracting more dollars from the people he have continued buying. It's nonsense and pure bull$#!( to deny that practice amongst comic publishers - especially IDW which I'd call a small-publisher variant-factory second only maybe to Titan Publishing. IDW has a year-over-year loss from declining sales and also some extrinsic factors like materials price increases. Editor-guy wants to do damage control here, that's fine but it's simple - variant covers artificially inflate sales and make the readership appear much larger than it is. Bare minimum it creates a cloud of occlusion of the real data. There is no denying this statement in truth.

As for AquaParade? :lol: Go easy on him, he needs a "win" by any means, he needs a Dad, and needs to project that he's an industry expert because he reads 12 comic books a year, plays with Turtle toys and once read half of a Swamp Thing TPB that he couldn't finish and decided that he liked Alan Moore. Aqua, I love you man. It's true - I do.

[AquaParade]

Don’t mind, IMJ. He is having a moment. See the DC Slate thread for an epic meltdown.

Btw, I’m salivating at whatever secret TMNT projects Tom knows about. Video games? An animated adaption in the works? Fuuuugg. Probably something good. The franchise really has been in great shape lately, for the most part.
It’s awesome.

I’ll bet Tom knows about whatever AAA game is in development, and I bet it’s legit. That’s my wild guess, not that I expect any type of confirmation.

[Andrew NDB]

Don’t mind, IMJ. He is having a moment. See the DC Slate thread for an epic meltdown.

That you see it as a meltdown is you pretty much outing yourself. He played you like a fiddle.

[AquaParade]

That you see it as a meltdown is you pretty much outing yourself. He played you like a fiddle.

Nah, you’re upset because you did the same thing - had a meltdown literally before you know what you were even discussing. That’s weird.

You were having a fit about there not being a Batman movie. There is a Batman movie.
And when you get corrected, you just drop it and move onto the next super petty criticism. The criticism would be fine, it it were based in reality. You guys want to act like correcting you on factual information is some kind of fanboy behavior. It’s just bizarre.
You’re also having a moment in that thread, honestly.

Calling this…



NOOooohohoho....I don't actually care about Swamp Thing... you do. :) Besides after your implied talk that you are expert, it looks like you are tourist, instead! At least I grew up seeing the Swamp Thing movies. :) At least I watched that character whose avatar you are pimping there now.... you didn't! HAHAHAHHAHA It's even better now!!! Aqua gettin' fresh with a little moist piece of moss he keeps next to his Turtles and film collection... mwa mwa mossmanny I love youuuuuu.....

:)





Dude, stop Aqua-Parading around the room and clean it. That moss in your room that's so warm and soft? It's not supposed to be there - if you clean the room and remove the sticky old action figures the moss will go away.

:lol::lol::lol: ;) Because your Daddy never told, I will.... I love you, son.

“playing me like a fiddle” says a lot about you. But now you’re also cranky with me, so I can see where you’re coming from.

Sorry to everyone else that this thread got mucked up. I shouldn’t have responded when IMJ started dragging this into other threads.

Glad the sales are healthy here though. The Lost Years is already off to a great start.

[ProphetofGanja]

Someone needs to get DC animation/Nick to make a sequel to the Batman/TMNT crossover movie. It ended on a cliffhanger of Shredder falling into Joker venom and becoming a Shredder Joker hybrid and we never got a sequel after like 5 years.

Man, let's hope that's one of the secret things he talked about, that was a good-ass movie

[hypered1]

Man, let's hope that's one of the secret things he talked about, that was a good-ass movie

We've got Mutant Mayhem coming up. And the Netflix stuff after that.

[AquaParade]

I’m still not exactly sure if the Paramount+ stuff (I think that’s what you mean, hypered1) is connected to the movie. Isn’t that centered around villains? Sounds odd.

[CyberCubed]

We've got Mutant Mayhem coming up. And the Netflix stuff after that.

I mean, the Mutant Mayhem movie is the exact opposite of what people here would get excited about, given the leaked storyboards already make it look like nothing TMNT should be.

I doubt any of those other netflix projects are still coming. Only reason the Rise of the TMNT movie came out is because the movie was in production before they knew the show would be canceled. Had they had known, they would have stopped the movie before it ever got into development.

[hypered1]

I’m still not exactly sure if the Paramount+ stuff (I think that’s what you mean, hypered1) is connected to the movie. Isn’t that centered around villains? Sounds odd.

Yeah that was it. Haven't really been following it myself.

[hypered1]

RE: variant covers:- if they weren't popular then I doubt IDW would be putting this out in June:

https://images1.penguinrandomhouse.com/cover/9781684059973

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/723688/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-last-ronin----the-covers-by-kevin-eastman-esau-escorza-isaac-escorza/

[AquaParade]

The variants are popular but that’s not how IDW got TMNT on The NY Times Best Seller list. It’s not how they got the ongoing hardcovers to become top-sellers every time they release.

[beardcore84]

I'm sure I'll still be called a liar (wouldn't be the first time on this forum).

See, Tom knows this forums is a cesspool of negativity.

[AquaParade]

See, Tom knows this forums is a cesspool of negativity.

Yeah, I'm fine with fair negativity and dissenting opinions, but when we have people spouting off with negativity, when they simply aren't informed on what their speaking on, it gets pretty ugly.

[Cowabung-Gal]

See, Tom knows this forums is a cesspool of negativity.

Don’t forget, he’s on Twitter too, which is just as bad if not worse.

Welcome to the Internet, hon.

[frank_one]

RE: variant covers:- if they weren't popular then I doubt IDW would be putting this out in June:

https://images1.penguinrandomhouse.com/cover/9781684059973

https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/723688/teenage-mutant-ninja-turtles-the-last-ronin----the-covers-by-kevin-eastman-esau-escorza-isaac-escorza/I can't see any logic in what you're implying. I'm interested in buying a book that contains every variant covers but I would never buy variants themselves.

[hypered1]

I can't see any logic in what you're implying. I'm interested in buying a book that contains every variant covers but I would never buy variants themselves.

There are people who want the variants but can't afford all of them as individual copies of the issues so this is the ideal alternative for them.

[Bahamut810]

This is a lot of only kind of talking about the same thing if you squint. I am just popping in to add a bit of perspective to this.

Tom's Point...TMNT is doing great! We have comics coming out, its the biggest success that IDW has that I am aware off. I love that TMNT is doing great and that people want merch! I want more TMNT comic merch now that it seems like he is having more to do with things again and the story has come back to being (several) TMNT stories.

IMJ's point...IDW is not doing great. If he is correct (Its been a while since I looked at financials) then the financial indicators show that. I had a few extra bucks so I purchased as few shares of IDW and over the past year it has lost more then 50% of its value and is hovering around $1. Licenses that weren't making enough money were cancelled. The board game division closed down.

Both of these can be and probably are simultaneously true.

You are also both talking in different numbers. Tom is talking in total sales (24k issues sold) vs IMJ talking in the number of people purchasing the issues. This *is* an important number that Tom I am sure has very limited access to unless they poll each store they send product to. That number is so important because you can only expect people to purchase the same the or ever expanding groupings of things for so long before they get burnt out (I remember stories of event burn out from commenters on DC and MArvel).

This makes me afraid that the story that I have been spending money to buy into for the past few years will come to an end because of things *mostly* outside the scope of this evergreen cyclically popular franchise.

We should also be fair about some of this. Regardless on how well the company is doing or any future projects that may be coming up what he says may hurt the company or open him up to litigation. So being optimistic is the path forward. People can look at the financials and the released news and come to their own conclusion.

At the same time...I don't think that its too far to ask for being a little more straightforward that printing 40+ covers on a single comic is trying to make the multiple bucks on the same product as many times as possible. There is nothing wrong with that if that's how whales want to spend their money. More expensive specialty products exist because there is demand (aka what people call the pink tax).

[CyberCubed]

The only thing that matters is whenever the IDW run ends, that they know ahead of time to give it a proper ending. This series has been running since 2011, so after 12 years of investment from fans I'm sure they'll know ahead of time to give it proper closure when the time comes.

For all we know we may reach 200 issues in the main series, so we don't have to worry anytime soon. But as long as it gets a proper ending wrapping up most plot threads and villains, either by issue 150 or 200, it's fine by me.

[hypered1]

The only thing that matters is whenever the IDW run ends, that they know ahead of time to give it a proper ending. This series has been running since 2011, so after 12 years of investment from fans I'm sure they'll know ahead of time to give it proper closure when the time comes.

For all we know we may reach 200 issues in the main series, so we don't have to worry anytime soon. But as long as it gets a proper ending wrapping up most plot threads and villains, either by issue 150 or 200, it's fine by me.

I wholeheartedly agree although #150 would be around March next year which may be too soon after the current arc to wrap things up and #200 theoretically would be about May 2028 which is way too far away to even be thinking about at this point.

[IMJ]

This is a lot of only kind of talking about the same thing if you squint. I am just popping in to add a bit of perspective to this.

Tom's Point...TMNT is doing great! We have comics coming out, its the biggest success that IDW has that I am aware off. I love that TMNT is doing great and that people want merch! I want more TMNT comic merch now that it seems like he is having more to do with things again and the story has come back to being (several) TMNT stories.

IMJ's point...IDW is not doing great. If he is correct (Its been a while since I looked at financials) then the financial indicators show that. I had a few extra bucks so I purchased as few shares of IDW and over the past year it has lost more then 50% of its value and is hovering around $1. Licenses that weren't making enough money were cancelled. The board game division closed down.

Both of these can be and probably are simultaneously true.

You are also both talking in different numbers. Tom is talking in total sales (24k issues sold) vs IMJ talking in the number of people purchasing the issues. This *is* an important number that Tom I am sure has very limited access to unless they poll each store they send product to. That number is so important because you can only expect people to purchase the same the or ever expanding groupings of things for so long before they get burnt out (I remember stories of event burn out from commenters on DC and MArvel).

This makes me afraid that the story that I have been spending money to buy into for the past few years will come to an end because of things *mostly* outside the scope of this evergreen cyclically popular franchise.

We should also be fair about some of this. Regardless on how well the company is doing or any future projects that may be coming up what he says may hurt the company or open him up to litigation. So being optimistic is the path forward. People can look at the financials and the released news and come to their own conclusion.

At the same time...I don't think that its too far to ask for being a little more straightforward that printing 40+ covers on a single comic is trying to make the multiple bucks on the same product as many times as possible. There is nothing wrong with that if that's how whales want to spend their money. More expensive specialty products exist because there is demand (aka what people call the pink tax).

This is all exactly true - even your impressively astute observation that:

Both of these can be and probably are simultaneously true.

And the information I have been giving in this thread was not "internet negativity", but rather an informative observation of the publishing dynamic and publisher situation. It was turned into conflict by Tom's spin, not mine. And it was weaponized by Aqua who needs a "big dog" win for personal psychology XYZ.

But what you've said here is exactly on the money and contrary to the pushers in the thread (IDW and Aqua), and to the shock of the uninitiated ("All of this negativity!"), I appreciate you taking the information in the spirit that it was intended and also interpreting it with some sense of reality.

It's very simple. Alternate covers are vertical integration in a business, designed to extract money and increase units from existing readers. IDW has been in financial decline now for at least a year-over-year. Denying these two pieces of information, or calling them "internet negativity" instead of using that information to see reality is pure ignorance.

Regardless on how well the company is doing or any future projects that may be coming up what he says may hurt the company or open him up to litigation. So being optimistic is the path forward. People can look at the financials and the released news and come to their own conclusion

Yes and this goes back to what I said about "of course he wants to broadcast here that IDW is where the party is at". But I would still guess the nuance of what you are actually saying here will be lost on the thread readership to some extent. There are people who will see "being optimistic is the path forward" and it sounds "nice" and so in "sounding nice" all real meaning behind calling it a "strategy" will be lost to those people.

My point? All you can do is inform the consumer about the realities to affect the consumer behavior. 2 out of ten will get it. 2 out of ten will get it but argue it out of personal agenda. 6 out of ten will simp for it out of social need.

I'll say this very clearly for the information of the regular reader here - When a book ships, for example 24,000 copies; that does not equal 24,000 individual readers, not by a long shot. But IDW and guys like Aqua are counting on your ignorance to not put two and two together whereas I'm counting on your intelligence to put two and two together.

[Bahamut810]

The only thing that matters is whenever the IDW run ends, that they know ahead of time to give it a proper ending. This series has been running since 2011, so after 12 years of investment from fans I'm sure they'll know ahead of time to give it proper closure when the time comes.

For all we know we may reach 200 issues in the main series, so we don't have to worry anytime soon. But as long as it gets a proper ending wrapping up most plot threads and villains, either by issue 150 or 200, it's fine by me.

Not thinking of anything else but the story and everything...My perfect ending would be a big issue 150 shebang. Maybe its stretching the games out or maybe its one final huzzah kicking the Pantheons parents butt. With the history of big huge bangs happening every 50 issues 150 would be the time to do it. Maybe an epilogue comic...but the current TMNT line up finally gets their good ending (whatever it may be). We have their stories a few times.

Then, the new TMNT pick up with the new TLR turtles. New adventures, new enemies, new world to explore, everything fresh and new. Issue #1 where issue 6 of The Lost years ends for them.

Also...
I was thinking about it...at first I was thinking they would be more archetypes of the old turtles. Now? I kind of want the new turtles to be archetypes of the major supporting characters, based off what we know so far:

Odyn - Spiritual like Bludgeon or a force of nature like Casey Jones
Uno - Aggressive like ancient Oroku Saki
Moja - honor driven like Splinter
Yi - Smart like Granny April Oneil.

They don't all have to be amazing combatants but all of them can contribute and aren't just "new (insert turtle here)".

[CyberCubed]

I feel there's too much story to wrap up by issue 150:

- Rat King must be defeated, or at least done away with in some form. He's the only Patheon member that truly seems evil and they have to do away with. The rest of them are fine and don't cause harm to humans

- Krang and Ch'rell both have to die or be locked up, to give the Utroms and Triceratons a peaceful resolution

- Null has to have some sort of conclusion as she is one of the next big villains.

- Baxter Stockman will probably be arrested eventually.

- Old Hob will probably just finally turn leaf and become "good" permanently.


Besides that I have no idea what they plan to do with Shredder at this point, so we'll see.

[ChosenOne]

After the large-scale extravaganza that is Armageddon Game, #150 feels way too soon to end things.

They're setting up Armaggon, Stockman will either fall upwards into an even more powerful position or be forcibly mutated into a fly by Hob, Karai is poised to become a major player, Null might stick around, plus the Utrom civil war/conflict with the Triceratons still has plenty of mileage... The only sure wrap seems to be Rat King.

I don’t know if it'll go as far as #200 or even if we're getting a Kirkman-style fakeout and AG is indeed the grand finale, but I do hope this comic does what no other TMNT comic has done and give us a proper ending.

[TomWaltz]

After the large-scale extravaganza that is Armageddon Game, #150 feels way too soon to end things.

They're setting up Armaggon, Stockman will either fall upwards into an even more powerful position or be forcibly mutated into a fly by Hob, Karai is poised to become a major player, Null might stick around, plus the Utrom civil war/conflict with the Triceratons still has plenty of mileage... The only sure wrap seems to be Rat King.

I don’t know if it'll go as far as #200 or even if we're getting a Kirkman-style fakeout and AG is indeed the grand finale, but I do hope this comic does what no other TMNT comic has done and give us a proper ending.

A final message for all Technodrome Folks reading this,

IDW TMNT is not ending at #150. We're planning YEARS out on multiple TMNT fronts (some that have been announced, some that have not). We're not going anywhere anytime soon. So many cool things coming (some announcements that'll make your brains explode!).

IDW is not going anywhere, either, no matter how much the constant doomsayers scream that so-called "truth" to the sky on his forum and elsewhere...over and over and over again. I've been at IDW since 2006. I like to think I have a pretty good handle on the comings/goings of the company, as well as the ups and downs. The financial reports you read are only part of the story. If ANYONE has true inside information about IDW's status, it's me, so you'll just have to believe me...or not.

There is no liberal agenda. There is no conservative agenda. I don't identify with or subscribe to either the Democrat or Republican cults. I'm registered Independent (and always recommend to my friends and family and even strangers that they do the same to send a message to the so-called powers-that-be that we're not gonna just blindly adhere to two sides of the same corrupt coin anymore) and I choose to live in the middle and make up my own mind about ALL things...usually after I educate myself beyond reading click-bait headlines and/or seeing/hearing/reading the constant scripted and fake news that the mainstream media (left AND right) continues to feed us (talk about agendas). I don't need to be told what to think -- for good or bad, I do my thinking on my own. As for the comics I write, I simply let the characters guide me and hope they lead me down a road that's as entertaining for readers as it is for me. I always chuckle when I see or read so-called "fans" screaming that we creators are being told what to write by our corporate overlords at Nickelodeon and/or IDW, when in truth, the characters have always been my true bosses. They tell me what to write. Nobody else.

Again, believe me or not.

As for this forum, I think it's time I step away. Don't get me wrong -- there are some amazing folks on here...both the fans who like what we're doing and those who do not. I've never had a problem with criticism -- hell, I welcome it as it makes me a better creator in the long run. I just can't take the juvenile bickering anymore. I'm too old for that nonsense.

It's a personal decision for me -- and I'm sure plenty of you will counter this post by saying I'm weak or too sensitive or whatever. That's okay. I know what I am. I know what I've done in my life (and a lot of it had to do with me actually carrying a rifle in foreign lands, not just writing about it). I know I'm far from weak. Thing is, I'm just too much of an...adult, I guess...to be a part of something that continues to be more and more toxic and childish with each new thread I read. I've only got so many years left on this big, blue marble of ours -- I want those years to be as positive as possible, and I only have myself to blame every time I come to this forum and consistently end up feeling like I'm banging my head against a wall of negativity and false information. At the risk of being judgmental (which I do my very best to never be) I can't decide if I'm dealing with a bunch of angry old men or angry little kids when I'm on here most of the time (not ALL of the time -- I've kept coming back for the exceptions to that -- the fun, positive threads that make me smile...even the ones that are maturely/fairly criticizing my work).

It's starting to feel like a co-dependent/abusive relationship every time I come back to this forum, and I really don't like that feeling. Not one bit. And even more, I hate contributing to it.

I do want to thank all those who whole-heartedly welcomed me to TECHNODROME way back in 2011 and over the years since. Nothing makes me happier than knowing there are so many passionate and loyal and friendly TMNT fans in this world. I've been blessed to have the opportunity to create TMNT stories for more than a decade, and sharing those tales with you all has been (and continues to be) the very best part of that opportunity for me. I hope to tell many more and will continue to tease and promote on Twitter (@tomwaltz) and Facebook. Please visit me there...I'm always good for sharing a spoiler or two that makes IDW and Nickelodeon's Marketing teams go nuts LOL!

Be good to each other.

Let go of the mainstream media-driven cults of division and remember we're in this together.

Do the research.

Think for yourself.

Don't be divided.

Don't be conquered.

See ya all in the funny papers!

Tom W.

[AquaParade]

Tom, mad respect, from me, for being independent-minded. That’s a rare and precious thing these days. Hope you don’t mean that’s your final “final” message.

Anyone trying to negate the incredible sales of tmnt comics as of late is kidding themselves. Variants or not, which obviously boost sales.
But again, NY Times best seller. That’s not every comic.
Btw thanks for helping make that book happen. TLR kicks ass.


I’ll still critique tmnt stories all day, but I love that you hang around here and share stuff with us. Although, hell maybe I’ll do the same and just make a twitter. I like that nifty “view counter” they added.

[lonewarrior20]

and we lose yet another voice from the inside. I think there's no one left. they've been driven all away now.

[Bahamut810]

IDW TMNT is not ending at #150. We're planning YEARS out on multiple TMNT fronts (some that have been announced, some that have not). We're not going anywhere anytime soon. So many cool things coming (some announcements that'll make your brains explode!).

Pardon if you thought I meant to think it was ending there. I was just thinking 150 would be a good point to end. I say that because I am an avid anime/anime inspired media watcher and see what happens when thing just go on for too long and it becomes a drag to keep up with (and I am somewhat obsessive, if I start something I want to finish it) or just becomes *too* much like Bleach, Dragon Ball (whichever) or RWBY. All of them were awesome for years...then it just kept dragging on. If there is lots of new comics stuff with fresh ideas on the way? Awesome!

There is no liberal agenda. There is no conservative agenda. I don't identify with or subscribe to either the Democrat or Republican cults...

As for the comics I write, I simply let the characters guide me and hope they lead me down a road that's as entertaining for readers as it is for me.

That's why I perk up when I hear your name is involved in something. :D

As for this forum, I think it's time I step away. Don't get me wrong -- there are some amazing folks on here...both the fans who like what we're doing and those who do not. I've never had a problem with criticism -- hell, I welcome it as it makes me a better creator in the long run. I just can't take the juvenile bickering anymore. I'm too old for that nonsense.

It's starting to feel like a co-dependent/abusive relationship every time I come back to this forum, and I really don't like that feeling. Not one bit. And even more, I hate contributing to it.

Oh man...I guess you saw the politics Misc boards...

Seriously though, its understandable. I will probably see you on your facebook or something then...probably not twitter though. I only use twitter to see...other...things...

[ChosenOne]

A final message for all Technodrome Folks reading this,

IDW TMNT is not ending at #150. We're planning YEARS out on multiple TMNT fronts (some that have been announced, some that have not). We're not going anywhere anytime soon. So many cool things coming (some announcements that'll make your brains explode!).

I will never forget what you've done for TMNT and will forever be a fan of your outstanding writing. Tom, I salute you!

My brains are ready!

P.S. Give us IDW Chien Khan! :D

[CyberCubed]

I will continue to follow Tom on twitter, he regularly posts some upcoming panels or art from future issues there and hints. I know some of you don't use twitter but it might be worth it just to follow him there.

If IDW TMNT really does continue long passed issue 150 that is good news, I hope they give all the new characters they introduced their proper time. I love how many Archie Adventures comics just showed up recently, as well as Torbin Zixx from Fast Forward.

[Coola Yagami]

Damn, it sucks to see him go.

We've lost everyone tied directly to the franchise and I think it's a sign most of us has just gone too far off the deep end. I know fandoms can be toxic but it sucks to know I'm part of 'the most toxic TMNT forum'. I mean, I don't blame the guy, if I was legit working for Nick or IDW with upcoming Turtles projects, I kinda wouldn't have wanted my name associated with this place either.

I'm sure had Laird of Eastman ever have been member here, they sure as hell would have left by now. Especially Laird, he got no patience for this ****.

It's too late now to make any major changes, but I kinda think we should shut down the Current Events forum and possibly the Everything Else forum. I'm sure most of us have some other forums where we can vent about Trump and Biden, but this forum should be most TMNT stuff and I guess non-TMNT comics and gaming.

Yeah I know, there really isn't much to talk about the Turtles anymore except the comics, the new figures and the upcoming Rogen movie, but I mean if we're not really gonna talk about the Turtles, why are we even still here?

[Zog The Magnificent]

There are other forums? I've only ever seen the stuff for the comics, movies, and animated shows.

[Turtle Soup]

This forum is garbage and needs to die.

[Cowabung-Gal]

This forum is garbage and needs to die.

Then you agree that Twitter and Facebook must go, too. Good chap. :D

[Coola Yagami]

Then you agree that Twitter and Facebook must go, too. Good chap. :D

Just Twitter. Facebook is still a good way to keep tabs on friends and family from out of state. I mostly use the messenger. Just don't engage in any actual FB posts. Or maybe delete Facebook but keep the messenger.

[Zulithe]

There is a reason this forum's posts are dwindling and dwindling, and it's not simply due to lack of TMNT content. It's a factor, but not the whole story. Every time a big name in TMNT steps away, be it Ciro, or Tom, or others, people should pay attention to the reasons.

Who can blame Tom? He wants to engage with people consuming work he's involved in, but trying to be enthusiastic and friendly when faced with some of the feedback here is incredibly difficult and ever-depleting

When was the last time we got a decent influx of new users? During the 2012 series and CGI movie phase. My Join Date is clearly visible--that's when I jumped in here--but I was already lurking the forum for years before that.

If it were up to me, this forum would get a full software upgrade migrating it on a modern platform (such as XenForo) the fresh new look and new features would attract users. There should also be stricter moderation policies to prevent any form of harassment or inflammatory content. Online TMNT discussion groups have to grow and be inclusive to a new generation or it's just a bunch of 40yo guys talking about the 90s movie forever until we die off.

Some will say that forums are just dying in general, but I am a member of many very active forums. Their success has a lot to do with how they are operated. There's still a big demand for places to commune outside of the major social media sites.

But Krang doesn't seem to care much these days, which is unfortunate. I'm sure he's getting up there in years and just doesn't have the desire to be directly involved anymore. Which is why ultimately what is needed is a new forum under new leadership who will take a more direct involvement.

Otherwise, there's always Reddit and such.

[TigerClaw]

There is a reason this forum's posts are dwindling and dwindling, and it's not simply due to lack of TMNT content. It's a factor, but not the whole story. Every time a big name in TMNT steps away, be it Ciro, or Tom, or others, people should pay attention to the reasons.

Who can blame Tom? He wants to engage with people consuming work he's involved in, but trying to be enthusiastic and friendly when faced with some of the feedback here is incredibly difficult and ever-depleting

When was the last time we got a decent influx of new users? During the 2012 series and CGI movie phase. My Join Date is clearly visible--that's when I jumped in here--but I was already lurking the forum for years before that.

If it were up to me, this forum would get a full software upgrade migrating it on a modern platform (such as XenForo) the fresh new look and new features would attract users. There should also be stricter moderation policies to prevent any form of harassment or inflammatory content. Online TMNT discussion groups have to grow and be inclusive to a new generation or it's just a bunch of 40yo guys talking about the 90s movie forever until we die off.

Some will say that forums are just dying in general, but I am a member of many very active forums. Their success has a lot to do with how they are operated. There's still a big demand for places to commune outside of the major social media sites.

But Krang doesn't seem to care much these days, which is unfortunate. I'm sure he's getting up there in years and just doesn't have the desire to be directly involved anymore. Which is why ultimately what is needed is a new forum under new leadership who will take a more direct involvement.

Otherwise, there's always Reddit and such.
Forums and IRC chats are dying in general, Because they been replace by Discord servers.

[Vegeta]

This forum has gotten so mean the last few years ya'll drove Waltz away, a beacon of light who has written my favorite version of the turtles. Sad days. Thanks for over a decade of bad ass stories Tom if you ever see this as I'm not on twitter, I fell off again a little while back but am really enjoying catching up once again. Not many great tmnt places to lurk anymore, tmnt reddit page doesn't have much comic discussion. I'm happy to see ronin injected so much life into the long running series though as the number of current releases is marvelesque in its sprawling reader confusion, congrats.

[hypered1]

This forum has gotten so mean the last few years ya'll drove Waltz away, a beacon of light who has written my favorite version of the turtles.

Well that's what happens when the mods and admins can't be bothered to enforce the rules of the forum.

[Allio]

Then you agree that Twitter and Facebook must go, too. Good chap. :D

“Social media was a mistake”

-Mark Zuckerberg.

[ChosenOne]

“Social media was a mistake”

-Mark Zuckerberg.

Humans were a mistake.

[Zulithe]

Forums and IRC chats are dying in general, Because they been replace by Discord servers.

I'm on a lot of Discord servers, and while it's true, none of the TMNT discords are all that active. But I think back to the first several years of the 2012 series... there were MASSIVE amounts of people posting fan art, gifs, stories, etc., on tumblr... where did all those people go? Just lost interest in TMNT? They're all still out there... somewhere.

[Andrew NDB]

where did all those people go? Just lost interest in TMNT?

They grew up, got careers, married, children and didn't notice any new TMNT content to get excited about. Because there really hasn't been, with precious few exceptions along the way.

[Coola Yagami]

Honestly just the Batman/Turtles animated movie. I'm also surprised they went with movie original turtles instead of borrowing an incarnation or even making them at least look like IDW Turtles.

[frank_one]

They grew up, got careers, married, children and didn't notice any new TMNT content to get excited about.Yeah, nowadays people tend to forget it's ok to lose interest in the stuff you loved in your youth when you grow up.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Yeah, nowadays people tend to forget it's ok to lose interest in the stuff you loved in your youth when you grow up.

Yeah, it’s more than ok to lose interest in “Ren & Stimpy”. I loved that cartoon as a little kid, but watching it again as an adult leaves me wondering, “How the **** were my parents okay with me watching this show?”

[Andrew NDB]

It's also important to keep in mind that societally the notion of 30, 40, or 50 year old people being devoted to children's cartoons and toys is kind of a new thing. It would be unthinkable even 25 years ago or so. So it's not weird that people are outgrowing it/distancing themselves from it in their adult years, it's more weird that more people aren't.

[Zog The Magnificent]

While it's fine to outgrow things, I think in some respects people are too quick to do so. A lot of people, especially a lot of young people, seem in such a hurry to grow up that they throw out everything they loved because they're worried about others looking down on them or thinking their "immature." And while the immaturity of the current generation seems to be at an all time high in many respects, I don't think reading comics or watching cartoons is the cause.

I have multiple shelves full of DVDs, most of cartoons that I liked and still like. I'm not going to pretend that fun things stop being fun JUST BECAUSE I get older. Maybe I stop enjoying things at some point, and I move on from them, but I'm not going to actively enforce it just because I reached an arbitrary cut off point, out of fear of looking silly. People who spend all their time worrying about what everyone else thinks about them, for something as harmless as a cartoon they like, are being immature themselves.

[ChosenOne]

I'm not going to pretend that fun things stop being fun JUST BECAUSE I get older.

This. Absolutely.

[AquaParade]

If something brings you joy, without causing harm, don't even question it.

[Andrew NDB]

It's not that fun things stop being fun when you get older, it's that -- generally speaking -- you get older and you find different fun things. Maybe it's not rewatching that old cartoon anymore and maybe now it's exploring classic or independent cinema, or maybe it's tearing apart and rebuilding car engines or any one of a host of things.

[IMJ]

Honestly just the Batman/Turtles animated movie.

Yeah that was a legit effort and great use of the I.P.'s all around.

[ChosenOne]

It's not that fun things stop being fun when you get older, it's that -- generally speaking -- you get older and you find different fun things.

I see it as finding more fun things, and bounce around between them all the time. Why settle when we can enjoy it all?

[IMJ]

I see it as finding more fun things, and bounce around between them all the time. Why settle when we can enjoy it all?

Well the SJW mentality is "you already had that. Go back and watch the old stuff". Soooooo......
The truth is that TMNT shouldn't be hard. It's the kind of property that could entertain any rational person looking for escapism. It's relevant via the "teenagers" and that point of life as measured against the father's expectations enough as it is on it's own merit.

Some additions here or there maybe, but it's widely an inclusive I.P. as it was before the overt messaging and agendas were put into the book.

[hypered1]

Well the SJW mentality is "you already had that. Go back and watch the old stuff".

You couldn't be more wrong. The SJW ideology is about the openness and acceptance to and for change.

[Cowabung-Gal]

You couldn't be more wrong. The SJW ideology is about the openness and acceptance to and for change.

More like, “You will like what we make because we know best, and if you still object then you’re either a closed-minded bigot or you’re simply uneducated.”

[MikeandRaph87]

More like, “You will like what we make because we know best, and if you still object then you’re either a closed-minded bigot or you’re simply uneducated.”

If only the SJWs knew they were describing themselves!

[hypered1]

More like, “You will like what we make because we know best, and if you still object then you’re either a closed-minded bigot or you’re simply uneducated.”

Says the pot calling the kettle black. Like Tom said people need to wake up and stop following the herds.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Says the pot calling the kettle black. Like Tom said people need to wake up and stop following the herds.

https://media.tenor.com/OqZDVFWG3ZgAAAAC/salty-someonessalty.gif

Hon, if I had herd mentality, then I would just be clapping with the other seals even as I’m being served steaming horse**** on a platter.

[Andrew NDB]

You couldn't be more wrong. The SJW ideology is about the openness and acceptance to and for change.

I thought it was all about inclusion and diversity? Except for conservatives, who you don't want to include and don't want their diverse views?

[Coola Yagami]

Well the SJW mentality is "you already had that. Go back and watch the old stuff". Soooooo......
The truth is that TMNT shouldn't be hard. It's the kind of property that could entertain any rational person looking for escapism. It's relevant via the "teenagers" and that point of life as measured against the father's expectations enough as it is on it's own merit.

Some additions here or there maybe, but it's widely an inclusive I.P. as it was before the overt messaging and agendas were put into the book.

A lot of times the SJW way when it comes to entertainment is 'it doesn't count until WE do it". That's how you get nonsense like 'Black Panther was the first ever black superhero movie' or 'Jennifer Laurence is the first female action lead ever' and whatnot.

As for the outgrowing thing, in my case it kinda depends on if the thing is still around. I mean other than the gap between the 80s cartoon and the 2K3 cartoon, Ninja Turtles never really went away. There's always been a new cartoon, movie, game or comic series. Even now with the IDW comics, the recent games, the NECA stuff and for better or for worse, the upcoming movie, TMNT is still around.

Hell when it comes to videogames, I'm enjoying King of Fighters 15 and we're on the verge of Street Fighter 6.

I kinda feel it's easier to 'outgrow things' when they're gone and stay gone. Like outgrowing Gobots or Pinky Brewster.

[CyberCubed]

If only the SJWs knew they were describing themselves!

Didn't you call Kevin Conroy writing a comic about him being gay "propaganda" when he was just writing about his real life?

I mean, you're not one to talk. I mean, this is when he was still alive, and when him being gay wasn't widely known.

[Coola Yagami]

Didn't you call Kevin Conroy writing a comic about him being gay "propaganda" when he was just writing about his real life?

I mean, you're not one to talk. I mean, this is when he was still alive, and when him being gay wasn't widely known.

A comic about Conroy being gay or a comic of Batman suddenly being gay just because he is?

[hypered1]

I thought it was all about inclusion and diversity? Except for conservatives, who you don't want to include and don't want their diverse views?

Being conservative is nothing to do with it (although you may want to look up the definition of the word as you seem a little bit confused by it).
SJWs stand against those who would demonize others simply for their skin colour or their gender/ sexuality choices.
We're not the ones trying to shut down people just because they're not cis white males.

[AquaParade]

Being conservative is nothing to do with it (although you may want to look up the definition of the word as you seem a little bit confused by it).
SJWs stand against those who would demonize others simply for their skin colour or their gender/ sexuality choices.
We're not the ones trying to shut down people just because they're not cis white males.

Right. They’re the ones trying to shut people down because they are cis white males. That’s just the way it’s going.

[ChosenOne]

Can't believe I'm the one saying this but, guys, can we please stop bickering over meaningless bullsh*t and go back to discussing the things we all enjoy?

[Zog The Magnificent]

Can't believe I'm the one saying this but, guys, can we please stop bickering over meaningless bullsh*t and go back to discussing the things we all enjoy?

Yes, more of this please. We get it already, we all disagree on what woke means, none of us like it, none of us like talking about it, and it always ends up being a pointless argument because we've all stated our opinions on the matter and none of our minds are going to be changed by a forum argument. It's one thing when it's the direct subject of an issue or episode, but arguing about the concept in general? What the hell is the point? It's not gonna make anyone happier on either side.

[Cowabung-Gal]

Can't believe I'm the one saying this but, guys, can we please stop bickering over meaningless bullsh*t and go back to discussing the things we all enjoy?

Okay, who are you, and what have you done with ChosenOne?

[ChosenOne]

Okay, who are you, and what have you done with ChosenOne?

(Oh sh*t, they're on to me!)