Why do you think 2012 Nick created characters are off-limits in IDW?

[CyberCubed]

With the exception of Pigeon Pete, the IDW series has avoided using any "new" character created for the 2012 Nick cartoon. While this was understandable when the 2012 cartoon and IDW were going on at the same time to let both series stand on their own, it now feels a little odd given the 2012 show ended a number of years ago now.

For example IDW has even introduced characters like Venus or Torbin Zixx from Fast Forward as well as tons of Archie Adventures exclusive characters, showing they're willing to mine characters from any incarnation of TMNT.

Interesting enough a lot of the 2012 new characters like Xever/Fishface, Chris Bradford, Tiger Claw, Snakeweed, Spiderbitez, etc. all seem weirdly "off-limits" or they've avoided using them. I don't think they have to introduce these characters or anything, but they seem to bring in characters from every series but the 2012 cartoon.

[Andrew NDB]

I don't think IDW has a responsibility to adapt every character from everything, ever. In fact I think they ought to have been doing a whole lot less of that.

[CyberCubed]

That's what they do though. In just the last 30ish issues they've introduced:

Mona Lisa
Rahzar and Tokka
Groundchuck and Dirtbag
The Punk Frogs
Venus De Milo
Torbin Zixx from Fast Forward
Archie TMNT Adventures characters like the 4 winds and the Galactic Space quartet
Cudley the Cowlick


That's basically what they do. They just introduced some of the last major Fred Wolf/Playmates characters, Venus of all characters, a Fast Forward character, and now they're introducing a influx of Archie Adventures exclusive characters.

So it seems weird they introduce everyone but Nick 2012 characters.

[Coola Yagami]

Maybe they will eventually.

I think at the time they didn't so it wouldn't confuse people with there being two different versions of Dogpound and Fishface. However the show and comics based on the show have long been over, so who knows in a few years?

[CyberCubed]

Maybe they will eventually.

I think at the time they didn't so it wouldn't confuse people with there being two different versions of Dogpound and Fishface. However the show and comics based on the show have long been over, so who knows in a few years?

Yeah that seemed to be the case. But the show ended back in 2017 I think? Or was it 2018, which is still a few years ago now.

[Allio]

Outside of Tigerclaw is there really any mutant that would work?

You can say what you will about rise of the whole Mutant town of IDW, but I can at least picture Rise’s supporting mutants being people that live in mutant town.

[CyberCubed]

I could easily see Fishface/Xever working in IDW. There aren't too many aquatic mutants in this series.

[neatoman]

First off, I don't think they're "off-limits". They might have been during the show's run to some extent, perhaps in an informal sense, but I doubt Nickelodeon cares if IDW makes use of characters from a show that has been off the air for six years at this point.

Secondly, I think the main reason you aren't really seeing these characters pop up is because, the IDW writers don't necessarily care enough to include them. I'm not saying they don't care at all or that nobody wants to use them, just that I think there are characters they're more interested in using. Though I must admit it's weird that Venus of all characters got a role before most of the Nick characters.

As for what I would like to see... To be honest, I don't really care that much about the Nick-original characters, a lot them just seem like monsters intended to be fought once or twice before they're forgotten about. Then there are ones that are just intentionally stupid ideas, like ICK and April Derp, which really aren't worth using because they only seemed to exist because it amused the writers' room. Then the rest are either shallow pop culture references or wasted potential.

But as for that last one... I guess characters like Steranko works just fine, they didn't have to turn into monsters to be interesting. With Steranko in particular, he's actually distinct enough from Rocksteady to the point where he doesn't have to be Rocksteady.

[hypered1]

It's possible there was an licencing embargo of sorts for the 2012 characters like there was for SOTO characters Tokka and Rahzar up until recently.

[neatoman]

The funny thing is that there is way of introducing the Salamandrians into the IDW continuity that has been rattling around in my head for quite a while, in spite of Mona Lisa already being a character with a different backstory.

It's possible there was an licencing embargo of sorts for the 2012 characters like there was for SOTO characters Tokka and Rahzar up until recently.

I wasn't aware of that... But why would they be in the first place? Weren't they in both Turtles Forever and the 2012 show long before this supposed embargo?

[hypered1]

I wasn't aware of that... But why would they be in the first place? Weren't they in both Turtles Forever and the 2012 show long before this supposed embargo?

I don't know the nitty gritty of the higher up machinations, just that it was mentioned that T+R were off limits for a while - consider that their debut in the comics was during the 20th anniversary year for the movie.

And then we have Venus; she was only allowed to appear providing she shared nothing in common with the '97 version.

It's all complicated legal stuff that only the people with very large paychecks know the full ins-and-outs to.

[neatoman]

I don't know the nitty gritty of the higher up machinations, just that it was mentioned that T+R were off limits for a while - consider that their debut in the comics was during the 20th anniversary year for the movie.

And then we have Venus; she was only allowed to appear providing she shared nothing in common with the '97 version.

It's all complicated legal stuff that only the people with very large paychecks know the full ins-and-outs to.

Reminds me of that whole "New Star Trek needs look whatever amount percent different" thing. It's possible that it really says something like that in writing somewhere, I just don't understand how that really works in practice because I hardly ever see how it's supposed to be quantified. Does it specify that the nacelles of the Enterprise needs to be angled X degrees differently or that the uniforms needs to Y shades off on the RGB spectrum? Seems really vague.

As for the Venus thing... If "Nothing in common" means she can't be a long lost sister of the TMNT proper who was raised in China and a mutated turtle herself, then sure. But that doesn't really change that she's still a mutated Turtle-like creature with mysterious powers, so it's not really "nothing". I guess the agreement couldn't state that a character named Venus wasn't allowed at all because that would prevent a potential "TMNT vs the Roman Gods" story or something like that, but still.

[CyberCubed]

A lot of the Nick 2012 characters were just monster mutants so it's understandable a lot of them would have no reason to be used again. But like I said Xever/Fishface, some version of Chris Bradford or Tiger Claw would be the 3 obvious ones to use as they were the 3 biggest new villains of the show.

Weirdly a lot of the other Nick characters were just new versions of already existing characters, like turning Dogpound into Rahzar, the Pulverizer becoming Mutagen Man, or new incarnations of Wingnut/Screwloose, Mona Lisa being an alien salamander instead of a mutant, Rocksteady/Bebop, or the new version of Kraang's. There really weren't that many original 2012 characters that weren't just one-off monster mutants. I guess Snakeweed or Spiderbitez would be some of the few exceptions.

[Teddygaming reviews]

When I spoke to Tim Lattie for an interview he said he wanted to include certain characters from other series for the Saturday morning adventures comics. But he was not able to as some characters had licencing problems and Nick gets very protective over certain versions of tmnt such as 2012.

[The Great Saiyaman]

The funny thing is that some chapters of the IDW series DO have a strong influence of the 2012 series going on, most obviously when Mateus Santolouco is involved.

https://bamsmackpow.com/files/2017/06/tmnt70wearehere.jpg
We have all the tropes that make the 2012 Turtles distinctive from the FW Turtles and the 2003 Turtles.

- Raphael is the blockiest and has a scar on the left of his carapace and tattered and torn bandana ends.

https://static.tumblr.com/b48901cb9d1a6d13b7621814af2e246d/h85nxr3/i2Enednty/tumblr_static_1nqzlx6r29gkw80484o00o4ck.jpg
- Donatello is the tallest out of all of them and Santolouco usually depicts him with a Gap tooth, a very slight one, but it's still there.

https://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/michelangelo-shares-candy-with-slash1.jpg
- Michelangelo has the short bandana and his dialog makes me hear Greg Cipes' voice.

- Leonardo has both his swords on his right shoulder, rather than them being crossed over his back.

I think it's a shame Santolouco never drew the Amazing adventures comics, I can only imagine how awesome Dogpound and Fishface would have looked in his style.

[Andrew NDB]

Then the answer is probably because it hasn't been off the air long enough for anyone to be significantly nostalgic for it.

[Coola Yagami]

When I spoke to Tim Lattie for an interview he said he wanted to include certain characters from other series for the Saturday morning adventures comics. But he was not able to as some characters had licencing problems and Nick gets very protective over certain versions of tmnt such as 2012.

Hmmm I wonder what characters those would have been?

[Coola Yagami]

The funny thing is that some chapters of the IDW series DO have a strong influence of the 2012 series going on, most obviously when Mateus Santolouco is involved.

https://bamsmackpow.com/files/2017/06/tmnt70wearehere.jpg
We have all the tropes that make the 2012 Turtles distinctive from the FW Turtles and the 2003 Turtles.

- Raphael is the blockiest and has a scar on the left of his carapace and tattered and torn bandana ends.

https://static.tumblr.com/b48901cb9d1a6d13b7621814af2e246d/h85nxr3/i2Enednty/tumblr_static_1nqzlx6r29gkw80484o00o4ck.jpg
- Donatello is the tallest out of all of them and Santolouco usually depicts him with a Gap tooth, a very slight one, but it's still there.

https://retconpunchdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/michelangelo-shares-candy-with-slash1.jpg
- Michelangelo has the short bandana and his dialog makes me hear Greg Cipes' voice.

- Leonardo has both his swords on his right shoulder, rather than them being crossed over his back.

I think it's a shame Santolouco never drew the Amazing adventures comics, I can only imagine how awesome Dogpound and Fishface would have looked in his style.

There's also the fact that during that run April pretty much more the adult version of the 2012 outfit.

[Teddygaming reviews]

Hmmm I wonder what characters those would have been?

Some examples he used was hun and sam rockwell character from the movie for issue 3

[Zog The Magnificent]

Honestly, I don't think I want to see the 2012 characters show up. We've got too many characters as it is, and over the last few months, it's kicked into overdrive. It genuinely feels like someone compiled a list of every character that hadn't been used yet and just started going down it in rapid succession.

[CyberCubed]

Honestly, I don't think I want to see the 2012 characters show up. We've got too many characters as it is, and over the last few months, it's kicked into overdrive. It genuinely feels like someone compiled a list of every character that hadn't been used yet and just started going down it in rapid succession.

The only missing notable classic characters is Chrome Dome, Armaggon and maybe Lord Dregg. They do seem to be going down a checklist. Chrome Dome would be easy enough to include given he's just a giant robot, they can throw him in somewhere. Dregg can be Maligna's mate as a bug alien race.

Basically they almost exhausted every major classic cartoon, Mirage and 2k3 characters, and now they seem to be majorly going through the unique Archie Adventures characters. There's really not many major characters left.

[Mondo_Gecko]

I'm somewhat biased because Snakeweed is one of my fav characters and mutants in the the Turtles franchise so yeah, I'd love to see a more developed version of him as I've always felt he had a lot of potential.

I think a lot of the characters introduced in 2012 have the potential to either be further developed or re-imagined such as Dogpound, Fishface, Tiger Claw, Newtralizer, Spider Bytez, Rockwell and The Creep.

I especially hope this is not the last we see of Dogpound, Fishface and Tiger Claw.

[CyberCubed]

IDW already has a lot of random purple dragon characters, I can easily see Xever being one of them and being mutated. Chris Bradford is a bit harder to work in, given he was a loyal Foot member in the original and we have so many of them in IDW and he basically served the same role Hun had as a loyal Shredder minion. Tiger Claw could just be from Japan like he was in the show.

The rest I could take or leave, as most of the other mutants were just one-off monster type characters or ones that really would have to be reworked entirely to use them. I suppose Newtralizer has a chance if they ever introduce the alien salamander warrior race at some point.

[neatoman]

Some examples he used was hun and sam rockwell character from the movie for issue 3

... Why Hun?

[CyberCubed]

Isn't that writer on the original cartoon comics? Putting Hun in that series makes no sense, that comic should stay exclusive to characters who only appeared in the series rather than throwing in characters who appeared in shows years later

[neatoman]

Isn't that writer on the original cartoon comics? Putting Hun in that series makes no sense, that comic should stay exclusive to characters who only appeared in the series rather than throwing in characters who appeared in shows years later

Nah, I'd shove Hun, Karai and Angel right in there. Besides, didn't the comic pretty break with the cartoon by using TCRI anyway?

[CyberCubed]

I mean vague references like TCRI is one thing, but if you're doing a comic based on the original cartoon, including characters from other universes just breaks the nostalgia and feels pointless.

At most they could include Archie Adventures character there since most of them would fit in fine, but I wouldn't want to see any 2k3, Nick, or even Mirage exclusive characters there.

[neatoman]

I wouldn't call TCRI's inclusion a vague reference, it's a major plot element for two of the issues.

[Andrew NDB]

I would say, as a general rule for this for characters:

* Primarily Fred Wolf characters in all of their Fred Wolf glory. Don't make any apologies, just rewatch the episodes and do that and those characters justice in keeping with that feel.

* Some of the early original Archie characters could be soft-adapted over. Back when it was still hazy if Archie was Fred Wolf or if it was its own thing. Before they truly said "f*** it" and just did whatever (which of course to me is when it became the most interesting, as a kid!).

* All-new characters being introduced.

That's it. But jesus, even just within Fred Wolf, is that not enough characters to choose from?

[neatoman]

That's it. But jesus, even just within Fred Wolf, is that not enough characters to choose from?

Oh yeah, there are literally hundreds who were in the Fred Wolf cartoon... But I think you of all people could understand why someone might prefer the Fugitoid or Karai over Muckman or Mr. Ogg...

[Andrew NDB]

Oh yeah, there are literally hundreds who were in the Fred Wolf cartoon... But I think you of all people could understand why someone might prefer the Fugitoid or Karai over Muckman or Mr. Ogg...

Potential for growth! Such as it is. Make lemonade from lemons, good god. It's possible. It's writing.

[Cowabung-Gal]

They can’t include Tiger Claw because there’s already a mutant cat with an eyepatch in the IDW series.

Then again, we have like seven mutant turtles now.

[neatoman]

Potential for growth! Such as it is. Make lemonade from lemons, good god. It's possible. It's writing.

True and that's what I would do with such a limitation as well, but it might still be annoying to only have lemons when all the other fruits are just outside your reach.

[miru]

It’s been 10 years since the premiere of the Nick show, so I don’t think there’s still any legal embargo, or at least I think there shouldn’t be. I also wonder if Platinum Dunes, Rise, Shredder’s Revenge, or Mutant Mayhem stuff is allowed to be used yet? Is anyone really anxious to see Eric Sachs, Todd Capybara, Senor Hueso, etc?

[CyberCubed]

If we're only counting strictly new characters the 2012 show introduced and not reimaginings of existing characters they can use:

Xever/Fishface
Tiger Claw
Chris Bradford/Dogpound (as separate from Rahzar)

Then some of the random mutants like Snakeweed, Spiderbitez, etc.

I feel Xever would be the easiest to introduce.

[TigerClaw]

If we're only counting strictly new characters the 2012 show introduced and not reimaginings of existing characters they can use:

Xever/Fishface
Tiger Claw
Chris Bradford/Dogpound (as separate from Rahzar)

Then some of the random mutants like Snakeweed, Spiderbitez, etc.

I feel Xever would be the easiest to introduce.
Tiger Claw is the one character I want to see in the IDW comics, With Mutant Town, It would make it easy to introduce a new version of the character.

[miru]

If we're only counting strictly new characters the 2012 show introduced and not reimaginings of existing characters they can use:

Xever/Fishface
Tiger Claw
Chris Bradford/Dogpound (as separate from Rahzar)

Then some of the random mutants like Snakeweed, Spiderbitez, etc.

I feel Xever would be the easiest to introduce.

Yeah, I mostly agree, but there’s also

* Kraang Sub-Prime (plus possibly the Kraang as a whole though they may not be needed due to the Utroms as a whole being more warlike)
* Zeno (I’d prefer Traximus but the two can be combined)
* Newtralizer
* Shinigami
* Kavaxas (he’s very likely redundant with the dragon around)

That seems like about it, aside from many reimaginings and random mutants. Plus Pete who’s already in.