TMNT #1 PBBZ Comic Con 2005 Reprint paper stock?

[nicobobinus]

Hi all,

Can any owners of the PBBZ reprint of TMNT #1 confirm if this is printed on glossy paper, or if it is news paper style like the original TMNT #1 please?

Also, I've read it has new tones from Peter and new lettering - how different is it from the original and are the changes decent or does it detract from the charm of the original?

Cheers!

[thingy]

No, it wasn't printed newspaper style.

For the tones, the duoshade tones have been stripped out. New tones are minimal and simple and basically just for backgrounds.
If you've got Kevin's Artobiography, there's some untoned examples (from other issues) and that's a similar look to what's here.

I think it was in a Volume 4 letters page Peter mentioned this issue wasn't quite the final thing, but I suspect the final version would just add in some missing shadows rather than be radically different.

Lettering is fine and includes some re-written dialogue here and there. Just flicking through now I notice the baby Turtles' first words which originally were just squiggles now read "Radical!" "Star Trek!" "Pizza?" and "Motto Guzzi!".

It's an interesting curio, but I'm not particularly bothered that this remastered TMNT project didn't get any further than this.

[Andrew NDB]

It's an interesting curio, but I'm not particularly bothered that this remastered TMNT project didn't get any further than this.

The public reception of it was terrible and Peter knew it. That's why there wasn't any more.

[Roseangelo]

The public reception of it was terrible and Peter knew it. That's why there wasn't any more.

Oh man. This was a whole thing back then.

Peter was refusing to reprint the first run of comics until he had remastered them all. 1) It was definitely not something he was going to spend the time doing on each issue. 2) It really was terrible. I know I posted a page-by-page comparison to show just how terrible it was.

[Andrew NDB]

Oh man. This was a whole thing back then.

Peter was refusing to reprint the first run of comics until he had remastered them all. 1) It was definitely not something he was going to spend the time doing on each issue. 2) It really was terrible. I know I posted a page-by-page comparison to show just how terrible it was.

I remember implicitly how much you enjoyed the new "first words" of the baby Turtles. :)

[BornAgain]

Why did he want to do that? Forgot all about it.

[frank_one]

Laird will always be my favorite of the duo but damn, he's taken a lot of weird decisions during his time. Stripping out the duoshade tones, the one thing that made those pages so iconic? Weird. Also, changing the first words of the turtles with "Star trek", "Moto Guzzi" and "pizza" (pizza!? in a Mirage issue??) is a Venus de Milo kind of bad decision.

[BornAgain]

Laird will always be my favorite of the duo but damn, he've taken a lot of weird decisions during his time. Stripping out the duoshade tones, the one thing that made those pages so iconic? Weird. Also, changing the first words of the turtles with "Star trek", "Moto Guzzi" and "pizza" (pizza!? in a Mirage issue??) is a Venus de Milo kind of bad decision.

The only reason I could think to include “pizza” would be to try and cement ownership over that aspect of the franchise as opposed to someone like David Wise taking credit. Not that I know where the pizza element came from.

Laird doesn’t seem like that type of guy but I also never took him for a pizza-turtles fan.

[Roseangelo]

Why did he want to do that? Forgot all about it.

He was honestly bugged by "mistakes" in the original books and wanted to "fix" them. He sincerely thought everything about this effort was an improvement.

[CyberCubed]

Lol I remember this, people were comparing it to what George Lucas did with the special editions of the original Star Wars trilogy at the time.

I mean considering this was 2005 and even if they had continued Mirage would sell in 2009 which was only 4 years later, I doubt they would have gotten far. Maybe at most issues 1-11 would have been "remastered" and they would have stopped there.

[nicobobinus]

Thanks for all the details and history on this issue. Sounds like one to avoid then! I assume the new tones are similar to the rather lifeless ones in vol 4?

Also, does that mean that the 2009 update of The Collected Book vol 1 mentioned on this page never actually happened?

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles:_The_Collected_Book_1

[liugeaux]

Thanks for all the details and history on this issue. Sounds like one to avoid then! I assume the new tones are similar to the rather lifeless ones in vol 4?

Also, does that mean that the 2009 update of The Collected Book vol 1 mentioned on this page never actually happened?

https://turtlepedia.fandom.com/wiki/Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles:_The_Collected_Book_1

That book totally happened, it just didn't include the weird updated tones. I know that turtlepedia page says it has reworked tones and lettering. If it does, they are minor reworks, not the full overhaul Laird was originally pitching.

[Andrew NDB]

That book totally happened, it just didn't include the weird updated tones. I know that turtlepedia page says it has reworked tones and lettering. If it does, they are minor reworks, not the full overhaul Laird was originally pitching.

I believe I have the TPB from 2009 and that Turtlepedia page is all wrong if so. And it definitely doesn't have an A.C. Farley cover.

[DrSpengler]

I have the PBBZ reprint and the only other reissue of it, which I think was like a video game preorder bonus from Gamestop or something. I got it as a curio so I could compare, contrast, and catalog the major reprintings of Volume 1 issue 1.

It isn't very good, no. It's a peculiar attempt by a creator to revise and update their work decades later with a modern POV, but it will never replace the original and views on it as an "improvement" are debatable. Very akin to George Lucas and the Special Editions of the Star Wars Trilogy (a comparison I know Laird took personal grievance with in the letters column of Volume 4, but... well... it applies).

The PBBZ reprint is worth seeking out for the retrospective content added to the back matter. Neat photos and editorials from Laird in the moment, which I think have a definite historical value. But the "remaster" itself is best left as a weird experiment that ultimately (and thankfully) went nowhere.

[BornAgain]

He was honestly bugged by "mistakes" in the original books and wanted to "fix" them. He sincerely thought everything about this effort was an improvement.

Thanks. That’s wild. I guess it must create a lot of overthinking when you have people still pouring over your “beginner” work. It’s easy to imagine wanting to go back and make things more to your current taste. Still, these were bewildering changes any way you slice it.

I guess this was around the same time April became a drawing so Laird was really doing some things. Interesting guy. Really makes you wonder what he’d do with a new TMNT story today.

He’d probably write a story in which the TMNT actually created Eastman & Laird, because they needed Eastman & Laird to then re-create them in a fictional world, in order to escape their reality’s version of Utroms, who were psychics that mostly resemble tree stumps. Oh and the turtles were also Utroms in their pre-comic book reality. Pencilled by Lawson, of course.

[Barkworm]

My god, I didn't know this was a thing. I found the book online and it's awful to the point where you wonder whether it's supposed to be some kind of practical joke.

[nicobobinus]

For the first time since I've been collecting Mirage Collected Books one of the 2009 updated versions appeared on ebay in reasonable condition over the weekend, and for a fair price, so I snapped this up. Looking forward to receiving it and comparing it to the original comic run...

[Great Hierophant]

To answer the OP's question, this reprint is not printed on either glossy paper or newsprint. The paper stock is very bright and very white and should be the same high quality stock Mirage was using for TMNT Vol. 4 in the 2000s. In 21 years since its publication in April 2005 (limited to 3,000 copies) my copy has not yellowed at all. I bought my copy from Jetpack Comics in NH last year and it was still in mint condition.

One day not too long ago, for "fun" I decided to transcribe the script from Laird's 1984 original text with his 2005 version (Laird scripted the early TMNT issues and Eastman lettered them). The changes in the dialog vary from making the punctuation more consistent to changing which words are bolded or lettered in block outline, to adding lines and rewriting speech bubbles. The extra text seems placed to clarify meaning and cut down on redundant words. Sometimes Laird might have gone a bit too far, for example:

"HAH, YOSHI DOG! IF I CAN'T HAVE THIS WENCH..THEN NO ONE WILL!"

was replaced with

"HAH, YOSHI DOG! IF I CAN'T HAVE HER...THEN NO ONE WILL!"

I think the original line was punchier.

The 1984 text has 2,208 words, the 2005 text has 2,313 words.

While engaged in this exercise I also imported Lavigne's 1988 lettering of the 1984 text (originally lettered by Eastman). His punctuation and emphasis differed to some extent from the 1984 text but the words were identical except in two instances.

One useful thing about the PBBZ edition is that you can get a sense of what TMNT #1 might have looked like if they had not used Duoshade. While the pre-Duoshade inks for TMNT #1 were published in TMNT Artisan Edition, that volume is more difficult to come by than the PBBZ edition. They probably would have used some adhesive screentone for some grayscale although not as much as the PBBZ's digitally simulated screentone.

One thing that really annoys me is when an Internet site or a YouTube video talks about TMNT #1 in a general sense and uses panel art from the PBBZ edition. I have no problem when someone is specifically talking about the PBBZ edition and showing its panels but it is an experimental variant published exactly twice and not representative of TMNT #1's black and white original artwork. (I am not fond of using any of the three colorized versions either unless the discussion is specifically about them.)

[Jeeves]

I never knew about the updated "first words." They sure are something. Which caption do you all reckon corresponds to each turtle? I'll go first.

"Star Trek!" has almost got to be Don, though I wouldn't entirely discount Mikey. But coming from mid 2000's Peter Laird, only "Segawy" or "Apple" would be less ambigous as Don's line, so I'm giving this one to him.

"Moto Guzzi" just smacks of Raph, though again I'd cop that cases could be made for Mikey and even Don. Raph's tough guy and loner personas just fit the motorcycle vibe.

"Pizza?" is a line I struggle with. Not placing it, mind you, it's clearly Mikey. No, I struggle with believing that Peter Laird willingly inserted it into the comic.

"Radical!" doesn't really fit with Leo's personality, but having assigned the other three lines, I guess he's stuck with it. One could take it as some cheeky foreshadowing. I doubt that was meant to be the case, but who knows? I choose to believe Leo was just thirsting from day one.

Just a small attempt to add to the conversation. I'm really more of a lurker than a poster, but I miss the days when new issues might generate 6, 7 pages of discussion, rather than being lucky to reach 6, 7 posts.

[ToTheNines]

Six-seven!

[Zog The Magnificent]

Six-seven!

IfKCV7tBn88

(But surely this has to be the last one).

[ToTheNines]

IfKCV7tBn88

(But surely this has to be the last one).

I dunno… Ask Jeeves!


"Radical!" doesn't really fit with Leo's personality, but having assigned the other three lines, I guess he's stuck with it. One could take it as some cheeky foreshadowing. I doubt that was meant to be the case, but who knows? I choose to believe Leo was just thirsting from day one.

:lol: love this one and it is now my headcanon.

[Great Hierophant]

No doubt people have accused Peter Laird of cavalierly removing details in his PBBZ version that were present in the regular DuoShade original so he could impose his computer tones without rhyme or reason. The charge is unjust.

To produce the PBBZ version he worked off the photocopied line art. Knowledgeable TMNT fans should know that E&L photocopied their inked artwork on the DuoShade board before applying the DuoShade chemical toners. This was extremely important when the opportunity came to colorize the original line art. DuoShade and watercolor do not mix. Kevin Eastman used these photocopies when he colorized TMNT #1 for First Comics' Book I and Steve Lavigne did the same when he recolorized TMNT #1 for the 2009 Full Color Reprint. Only the IDW colorization used the DuoShade art.

I would point out that those details were either completely done in DuoShade or were inking touchups done after they had photocopied the line art. The colorists would have to reproduce them and did not. Comparing these versions to the photocopies reproduced in TMNT Artisan Edition, one can see that the "missing details" were not there on the "final" inked photocopies. This includes page 11, panels 2, 3 & 5, page 12, panel 4, page 14, panels 1 & 6, page 16, panel 2 and page 27, panel 1.

I would follow up my original comment by saying that while Laird used (digital) screentones, Photoshop allowed him to use effects that would be difficult or impossible to achieve by cutting a sheet of adhesive screentone like Dave Sim and Gerhard did on Cerebus or Stan Sakai used on Usagi Yojimbo. There are lighting and starburst effects that would not be easy to reproduce on boards to be photographed for reproduction via web offset printing. Examples include page 17, panel 4, page 18, panels 2-5, page 22, panel 1, page 27, panel 2.

The PBBZ version should have a place in that it preserves all the pre-DuoShade inked line art and that it probably would have resembled the finished product if E&L decided not to use DuoShade. It deserves respect for that.