Alternative finale for IDW pre-#100

[ToTheNines]

Not trying to start a Sophie dunk session, but I think it’s safe to say that a lot of us dropped ongoing shortly, if not immediately, after #100.

My problem is, I thought “City at War” (bleh, quotations doing a LOT of work there) was ****jng awful. So awful that I don’t see myself wanting to subject myself to it again when I start my planned IDW trip down memory lane next year all the way back at #1.

#50 was epic, but it was a beginning as much as it was an end. Not only that, but there’s some really bright spots in the ongoing after that and some REALLY great minis, not to mention all 4 Macroseries issues were wonderful.

But the problem there is… what’s a good stopping point? Is there any point in the series that could feasibly be a half-assed finale? Even if you maybe have to squint a little bit to make it work!

[Cloudrunner]

The path to #100 was choppy and rushed, and it basically all started with the poorly thought out and forced plot thread of Jennika's transformation. I've had a problem with the character from the start as she basically stole all of Alopex's potential story hooks in regard to the Foot Clan and left the drastically more interesting character to fade into obscurity all for the sake of building shallow hype for a 5th turtle. And since that seem to be the REAL point they were trying to sell at the time, the rest of the plot threads that were supposed to culminate into #100 didn't get the time they needed to really cook.

[neatoman]

If we're talking an alternate continuity, then I have this idea for a what-if story in which Hob's bomb is stopped.

[ToTheNines]

If we're talking an alternate continuity, then I have this idea for a what-if story in which Hob's bomb is stopped.

No I mean an existing issue that could have been a satisfying ending if it was the last one. Like, what’s the best jumping off point if I don’t feel like slogging through City at War.

But I’d love to hear your idea too.

[MikeandRaph87]

No I mean an existing issue that could have been a satisfying ending if it was the last one. Like, what’s the best jumping off point if I don’t feel like slogging through City at War.

But I’d love to hear your idea too.

#89, Slash's funeral. It started downhill from there. It could have wrapped up in two issues The City at War stuff. I got over killing off Slash, but killing Krang by Leatherhead swallowing him after the whole trail? Then he comes back to be scared by his former confidant and killed again an issue later? What was the freaking point?! Such wonderful builds with underwhelming pay offs.

[neatoman]

No I mean an existing issue that could have been a satisfying ending if it was the last one. Like, what’s the best jumping off point if I don’t feel like slogging through City at War.

But I’d love to hear your idea too.

Eh, basically that most of what happened in the five or so issue until 100 more or less happened the same but what happens afterwards is quite different. Basically, Karai chops off Jennika's head instead of stabbing her, which means nobody wastes time trying to save her which in turn means they have time to stop Hob. Because they do this, they no longer have any reason to treat him like an ally anymore which leads to him taking refuge with the Foot. Then it's followed up by a final confrontation with Karai in which both she and Hob are killed off.

Basically, the moral of the story is, an ally isn't really a friend.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Eh, basically that most of what happened in the five or so issue until 100 more or less happened the same but what happens afterwards is quite different. Basically, Karai chops off Jennika's head instead of stabbing her, which means nobody wastes time trying to save her which in turn means they have time to stop Hob. Because they do this, they no longer have any reason to treat him like an ally anymore which leads to him taking refuge with the Foot. Then it's followed up by a final confrontation with Karai in which both she and Hob are killed off.

Basically, the moral of the story is, an ally isn't really a friend.

Gosh, if only. Jennika was the worst thing to happen to this book. Karai hasn't been compelling since the first 50 issues, and the "no killing" thing really has had awful ramifications that have just butterflied out into everything else. The worst part about Jennika is that Waltz did that, and he generally knew what he was doing.

Unfortunately, there really is no good stopping point. If we're looking at the whole comic, then the best stopping point was #50, just stopping with the turtles and not reading that little epilogue with Krang and the Hamato DNA. Since then the plot never really had a break.

[CyberCubed]

#89, Slash's funeral. It started downhill from there. It could have wrapped up in two issues The City at War stuff. I got over killing off Slash, but killing Krang by Leatherhead swallowing him after the whole trail? Then he comes back to be scared by his former confidant and killed again an issue later? What was the freaking point?! Such wonderful builds with underwhelming pay offs.

Krang came back for numerous issues, it wasn't a short time. A lot of it was separated in the annuals and other plotlines going on at the same time. He dies at the end of the Armaggedon game which is a long time after.

Speaking of that, Shredder coming back to life and them not doing anything interesting with him so far has been disappointing. Granted he still has story potential when they sent him to Dimension X after.

[Zog The Magnificent]

Krang came back for numerous issues, it wasn't a short time. A lot of it was separated in the annuals and other plotlines going on at the same time. He dies at the end of the Armaggedon game which is a long time after.

Speaking of that, Shredder coming back to life and them not doing anything interesting with him so far has been disappointing. Granted he still has story potential when they sent him to Dimension X after.


Maybe it just feels short because of how little he actually accomplishes or matters in between. From being revealed to be alive on Leatherhead to when he's finally separated and becomes his own character again, he does absolutely nothing but wander around and complain every several issues. Once he's separated, he almost immediately gets into a fight and dies. Ultimately, dealying his death did nothing and added nothing. At least with Shredder we had the novelty of Shredder being an ally and on the side of good. Krang hanging around quite literally did nothing but take up page space.

[GameCobra]

You know, i'm very surprised that the IDW comics didn't address Karai's issue with power when Shredder promoted Alopex to chunin. Turning her into a jealous human who wanted something to prove would've made Karai far more interesting.

That being said, though, I don't mind the Karai we have now, but I feel like there just isn't enough involvement from the Foot Clan afterwards.

[ToTheNines]

Eh, basically that most of what happened in the five or so issue until 100 more or less happened the same but what happens afterwards is quite different. Basically, Karai chops off Jennika's head instead of stabbing her, which means nobody wastes time trying to save her which in turn means they have time to stop Hob. Because they do this, they no longer have any reason to treat him like an ally anymore which leads to him taking refuge with the Foot. Then it's followed up by a final confrontation with Karai in which both she and Hob are killed off.

Basically, the moral of the story is, an ally isn't really a friend.

I like this. I always liked Hob as a character, but he’s never gonna be a happy ending character. He’s pretty much destined to go down fighting.

You know, i'm very surprised that the IDW comics didn't address Karai's issue with power when Shredder promoted Alopex to chunin. Turning her into a jealous human who wanted something to prove would've made Karai far more interesting.

That being said, though, I don't mind the Karai we have now, but I feel like there just isn't enough involvement from the Foot Clan afterwards.

Yeah they were setting Karai up as one of the many people who could feasibly betray/kill Shredder, but she ended up all misty eyed right before Splinter killed him.

[TheLabRat]

The path to #100 was choppy and rushed, and it basically all started with the poorly thought out and forced plot thread of Jennika's transformation. I've had a problem with the character from the start as she basically stole all of Alopex's potential story hooks in regard to the Foot Clan and left the drastically more interesting character to fade into obscurity all for the sake of building shallow hype for a 5th turtle. And since that seem to be the REAL point they were trying to sell at the time, the rest of the plot threads that were supposed to culminate into #100 didn't get the time they needed to really cook.

I think Alopex should be more like Demona from Gargoyles. She hate Shredder and Kitsune, and have no empathy to humans. Her goal is to destroy Foot Clan by any means. She positive uses everything she learned from Shredder and Foot Clan to turns against them. After #50, she will stay with Karai and subty manipulate her to keep her and the entire Foot Clan to continue on the wrong and self-destructive. She will also secretly create more chaos and direct their hatred towards Foot Clan.

In the City at War finale, she find a way to permanently kill Kitsune and make sure she will died extremely painfully, causing Shredder to fail into grief and anger. At that moment, because of Shredder's negative emotions, The Dragon took advantage of this and avoid being killed and escape. Before Alopex is killed by Shredder, she laugh at Shredder and Splinter, The Turtles because she know Shredder is once again been corrupted by his own dark fate. Splinter also died in despair because his attempt to redeem Saki has failed, and this failure also had a negative impact on his son's fate.

[GameCobra]

I think Alopex should be more like Demona from Gargoyles. She hate Shredder and Kitsune, and have no empathy to humans. Her goal is to destroy Foot Clan by any means. She positive uses everything she learned from Shredder and Foot Clan to turns against them. After #50, she will stay with Karai and subty manipulate her to keep her and the entire Foot Clan to continue on the wrong and self-destructive. She will also secretly create more chaos and direct their hatred towards Foot Clan.

In the City at War finale, she find a way to permanently kill Kitsune and make sure she will died extremely painfully, causing Shredder to fail into grief and anger. At that moment, because of Shredder's negative emotions, The Dragon took advantage of this and avoid being killed and escape. Before Alopex is killed by Shredder, she laugh at Shredder and Splinter, The Turtles because she know Shredder is once again been corrupted by his own dark fate. Splinter also died in despair because his attempt to redeem Saki has failed, and this failure also had a negative impact on his son's fate.

I actually pictured her more like the Daryl Dixon (The Walking Dead) of the Turtles. or The Green Ranger, even, which was a pretty good idea at the time.

She easily could've replaced Splinter when he was gone. Give the turtles some more down-to-earth thinking and became the team's tracker. Sorta a mix of wolverine. As for the magic, it would not be far fetched for her to learn ice themed ninja gear as she got older. Whether as a foot or turtle, that's up to the writers.

[ToTheNines]

Yeah I definitely prefer Karai as an ally. Would have been cool if she stuck around and aided Splinter during his tenure as Jonin.

[Weapons@theready]

Just don’t have Michelangelo jump off the roof at the end of issue #50. I know it leaves plot points left opened but it’s satisfying enough

[GameCobra]

Yeah I definitely prefer Karai as an ally. Would have been cool if she stuck around and aided Splinter during his tenure as Jonin.

Just wanted to clarify - I was talking about Alopex. x3

[TheLabRat]

Just don’t have Michelangelo jump off the roof at the end of issue #50. I know it leaves plot points left opened but it’s satisfying enough

It would be best if the Turtles finally accepted to kill to save their family and friend. Kitsune die and Donnie kill B&R or let them suffer a worse fate. Splinter refuses to behead Shredder for a punishment for all his past evil deeds. Shredder become angry and try to kill himself and Splinter with a bomb, but is stopped by Leo, and Shredder falling off the rooftops because of explosion. All these dishonorable behaviors were seen by Karai. She eventually began to reflect on the teachings she had received from Shredder. She signed a truce with Splinter, and agreed the entire Foot Clan would leave New York and never return.

[ToTheNines]

Just wanted to clarify - I was talking about Alopex. x3

Sorry I’m a dunce.

I would have preferred Alopex remain a villain and be a rival to Raph. Maybe have her end up with Hob and the Mutanimals.

[ToTheNines]

I remembered this thread today when LabRat bumped the 20/20 thread and I think I have a good enough pick.

If you read up until #89, you get that Christmas issue where Splinter sees the grim potential future of his sons killing him and he decides to change his ways at the end. If you read that and follow it up with the happy ending of 20/20, would that be a satisfying enough ending?

I think the Leo macroseries issue ends on kind of a positive note with Karai. The biggest plot thread you’d lose is Old Hob, because obviously he is gonna go wild after Slash’s death, but you can just assume he goes too far and gets killed eventually.

[TheLabRat]

Shredder may once again become a villain in IDW v2 comic. In Shredder #7 comic summary, he will recruit Dog Star Clan, Yoshi Chen may joined with him or be killed. My idea is that Shredder will killed Mourner but eventually be corrupted by the gem, Heart of Tengu. There will be a second City at War or City Fall arc, but this time it's Shredder vs. Karai.

Shredder had his own cybernetic ninjas, remain Foot Mystics and the gem. Karai had dragon magic and she eventually successfully opened the gates of hell and summon demon minions. Their battles will cause more destruction to New York, some of Foot minions like B&R, Koya, Natsu and Bludgeon will died in this battle. As for the turtles, they will be forced to retreat to Northampton or even Dimension X.

I will let Karai win, at least her long story development finally paid off. For the Shredder this is a poetic karmic ending, he will fell into hell again to suffer, but this time no one was willing to help or redeem him. But whatever the outcome, the winner will be completely possessed by The Dragon, reveal that the Traveler and Heart of Tengu are both part of the dragon's power.

[Drose18]

Shredder may once again become a villain in IDW v2 comic. In Shredder #7 comic summary, he will recruit Dog Star Clan, Yoshi Chen may joined with him or be killed. My idea is that Shredder will killed Mourner but eventually be corrupted by the gem, Heart of Tengu. There will be a second City at War or City Fall arc, but this time it's Shredder vs. Karai.

Shredder had his own cybernetic ninjas, remain Foot Mystics and the gem. Karai had dragon magic and she eventually successfully opened the gates of hell and summon demon minions. Their battles will cause more destruction to New York, some of Foot minions like B&R, Koya, Natsu and Bludgeon will died in this battle. As for the turtles, they will be forced to retreat to Northampton or even Dimension X.

I will let Karai win, at least her long story development finally paid off. For the Shredder this is a poetic karmic ending, he will fell into hell again to suffer, but this time no one was willing to help or redeem him. But whatever the outcome, the winner will be completely possessed by The Dragon, reveal that the Traveler and Heart of Tengu are both part of the dragon's power.

for the sake of not completely throwing away character development-

Im really hoping that the "Shredder" in the shredder spin off book is a worms shredder clone type of deal and not the Shredder was saw training and helping the turtles not long ago.

[Original TMNT Cartoon Fan]

IDW is now as old as Mirage was in early October 1998.

[Heyowakka]

Well I certainly don’t appreciate that fun little fact!

[ToTheNines]

IDW is now as old as Mirage was in early October 1998.

Wow, that’s crazy.

At that point they had hung it up for a bit and handed the reins over to Image for some new blood. Take notes IDW!

[TheLabRat]

for the sake of not completely throwing away character development-

Im really hoping that the "Shredder" in the shredder spin off book is a worms shredder clone type of deal and not the Shredder was saw training and helping the turtles not long ago.

I think it's same person. It's possible that Kitsune's resurrection ritual was not entirely successful, so the new body developed defects over time, affecting Shredder. Or when Noi Tai Dar defeated Shredder, he might have done something terrible to him.

[ToTheNines]

I’m surprised no one mentioned Armageddon Game.

#101-123 isn’t really worth enduring ever again, but the Punk Frogs/Venus arc into the Saki Kuji-Kiri two parter isn’t terrible. Then Armageddon Game is a lot to get through, but it’s fairly engaging and finally has a nice payoff for the whole Pantheon thing. However long overdue.

But of course there’s still some dangling plot threads. The Venus stuff isn’t really worth it, but Untold Destiny was great and I’m getting kind of annoyed that this whole Dog Star plot has been relegated to the side books for 2 years now. Hopefully YANG brings them into the ongoing soon enough and we get a final conflict between Karai and Chen.

[CyberCubed]

What did you thnik of Rahzar/Tokka in IDW? I thought that part was fine. Too bad we never saw them again after they went to some random alternate future.

[TheLabRat]

Even though Shredder is no longer a bad guy, the damage he caused still exists. Considering what Shredder did to Casey and Alopex, Raph actually had reason to refuse, and stay with Alopex to help others in their own way. The reason of why Raph learn magic is because they want the plot of "Raph trust Old Hob is not bad guy" to be more justified.

If I remember correctly, Mikey had told Splinter that there would always be another way because he disagreed with Splinter plan to killing other villains to protect his family. But in Armageddon Game, he agree without hesitation to let the murderer become his teacher. This is very unfair to Splinter.

[ToTheNines]

What did you thnik of Rahzar/Tokka in IDW? I thought that part was fine. Too bad we never saw them again after they went to some random alternate future.

Their specific portrayals were fun and surprisingly faithful to the originals. But that arc they were in was the absolute worst of the Sophie run, probably. Just like straight up Looney Tunes level goofiness.

I also don’t fully understand that “happy ending” future Lita took them to. I don’t think Sophie really thought it all through, but the next time we see Lita that’s definitely not what happened. There’s probably a zero percent chance we ever see them again or get that explained.