Splinter and Saki in Mirage

[ToTheNines]

This is kind of just me rambling, sorry.

I’m not currently doing a Mirage re-read, but since it’s almost Christmas I busted out Leonardo #1 this morning and of course had to dust off “Silent Partner” as well. But it just occurred to me that it was a pretty big missed opportunity when the gang makes it downstairs and they’re confronted with Shredder in the flesh. The scene is immediately interrupted by Casey’s dramatic entrance. I feel like Splinter should have said… something! Or displayed some iota of emotion.

While Mirage is my favorite version, I will admit that later versions really knocked it out of the park with the Splinter/Shredder rivalry. 1990 flick had them maim each other during the Yoshi assassination and had a great payoff in the climax. IDW had Yoshi’s quest for vengeance transcend time itself, culminating with him getting to fulfill his promise in his next life. And the 2012 show added his innocent daughter into the mix, making the feud more poignant than ever.

But that relationship isn’t the point of Mirage. It’s the cycle of revenge. Who knows how long the Orokus and Hamatos have been at odds? Nagi adds a degree of separation between the two. Splinter’s sons complete their mission of vengeance, they then spend the next several years fighting the remnants of the Foot, the clone, the loyalists, Pimiko and finally Lady Shredder’s forces.

But at the time, for Splinter to be faced with a reincarnated Saki less than two years after thinking his sons had fulfilled their duty had to have been a major gut punch to him. But unfortunately the story quickly turns to Casey saving the day and them all rapidly escaping.

And I don’t think I remember any Splinter dialogue on the matter during the Northampton era either, and he does not join them during Return to New York.

So that brief scene in TMNT #10 is the only moment in Mirage history that “Saki” and Splinter ever encounter each other and it is very unfortunately squandered. Even just a shot of shock in his face would have been something, but he’s kind of just there.

Crazy that this never bothered me before, but it just clicked today and I thought I’d share my thoughts. Any alternative takes?

[Coola Yagami]

I never thought of that, but that was right. I don't even think Shredder would even expect the Turtles to have a giant rat with them.

[ToTheNines]

Man, I need to do a full Mirage marathon and really dissect this. I just read #11 and Splinter gets zero page time until the end of the book when his speech around the camp fire ends with “life goes on, and life is good”. He’s totally unbothered!

Where’s the burning hatred and the remorse around his life’s work being mysteriously undone?

I will say the biggest reason for this whole thing is that E&L really let the turtles be the main characters and Splinter was mostly along for the ride. Following versions put him in the forefront of the story and in IDW he’s just straight up the main protagonist.


I never thought of that, but that was right. I don't even think Shredder would even expect the Turtles to have a giant rat with them.

Funny to think about, but I’m sure he knew about Splinter. The Foot had obviously been doing their homework before the ambush and Shredder somehow knew Leo’s name in RTNY (I don’t believe he learned it during #1, but I could be wrong).

[Coola Yagami]

Man, I need to do a full Mirage marathon and really dissect this. I just read #11 and Splinter gets zero page time until the end of the book when his speech around the camp fire ends with “life goes on, and life is good”. He’s totally unbothered!

Where’s the burning hatred and the remorse around his life’s work being mysteriously undone?

I will say the biggest reason for this whole thing is that E&L really let the turtles be the main characters and Splinter was mostly along for the ride. Following versions put him in the forefront of the story and in IDW he’s just straight up the main protagonist.




Funny to think about, but I’m sure he knew about Splinter. The Foot had obviously been doing their homework before the ambush and Shredder somehow knew Leo’s name in RTNY (I don’t believe he learned it during #1, but I could be wrong).

I don't think names were mentioned during that fight, other than Shredder introducing himself as such. I'd have to re-read it, maybe one of the Turtles yelled Leo's name within earshot and Shredder remembered?

[Andrew NDB]

There's not a whole lot of meat on the bones of Splinter and Saki post-Vol. 1 #1. Outside of maybe the Shredder Shark stuff, which I respect but isn't really my cup of tea. And yeah, it's always struck me as weird that Splinter wasn't at least peripherally involved in RtNY, though I admire how focused the story is as-is. For me it's like the pinnacle of TMNT storytelling in anything we've ever seen, or may ever see yet.

[Coola Yagami]

There's not a whole lot of meat on the bones of Splinter and Saki post-Vol. 1 #1.

I figured there would be some reaction to the fact that his master's murderer was somehow still alive. I mean, he did train the Turtles for 15 years for this.

[Andrew NDB]

I figured there would be some reaction to the fact that his master's murderer was somehow still alive. I mean, he did train the Turtles for 15 years for this.

True. If not IN RTNY, then surely right before it. It's missing some kind of a prelude, or a prologue. I think Peter and... probably it's mostly Kevin that was the most excited just to dive head-first into the main story.

[Demon-Alukard]

True. If not IN RTNY, then surely right before it. It's missing some kind of a prelude, or a prologue. I think Peter and... probably it's mostly Kevin that was the most excited just to dive head-first into the main story.

During his time in Northampton, Splinter prevented the Turtles' return in every way possible. Perhaps Eastman and Laird were trying to show that after the events of TMNT Vol.1 #1, Splinter started treating the Turtles like sons and was more concerned about them?

There was a scene in #2 where April asks Splinter about the purpose of their continued existence, but Splinter is interrupted halfway through and the reader never learns the answer.

Overall the comment is very on point. As far as I can remember, up until Shredder Shark, Splinter didn't comment on Saki's return at all. Maybe he didn't really consider him Saki anymore. A threat, yes. But no longer someone he swore revenge on, since that person had already been killed in #1.

[ToTheNines]

As far as I can remember, up until Shredder Shark, Splinter didn't comment on Saki's return at all. Maybe he didn't really consider him Saki anymore. A threat, yes. But no longer someone he swore revenge on, since that person had already been killed in #1.

It sounds kind of crazy, but I’m starting to think this might have been the case actually.

It’s a massive gap in the Mirage timeline, but knowing that #11 is early ‘87 and RTNY is December ‘88… cross reference that with Spengler’s timeline and there is not a single Mirage story told in the year of 1988, except for RTNY (and Tales #70, of course).

And beyond that, Splinter is almost entirely absent from the stories during the Exile in Northampton/1987 era. Obviously you can fill in the blanks enough, but at some point Raph grew tired of not hitting back and Leo almost assuredly wanted revenge as well, but was probably upholding Splinter’s wishes. But it’s interesting that Raph’s ire was wholly directed at Leo and he didn’t have any issues with Splinter over the situation.

[neatoman]

Remember how Shark-Shredder was going to take over Splinter's body? Anyone know why? Because why pick the mutated sewer rat when you could have... I don't know, a random guy nobody would notice if he went missing and would... Well, not look like a damn rat and could actually allow him to interact with normal people?

[Coola Yagami]

Remember how Shark-Shredder was going to take over Splinter's body? Anyone know why? Because why pick the mutated sewer rat when you could have... I don't know, a random guy nobody would notice if he went missing and would... Well, not look like a damn rat and could actually allow him to interact with normal people?

Not to mention an aging rat on death's door?

[ToTheNines]

Would be a good way to kill him and potentially the turtles too.

[DrSpengler]

Splinter being left out of RTNY entirely always felt like an omission, but I also got the feeling like his arc in CaW commented on that.

His sons/students had grown up and were now making major decisions about their lives and the feud with the Foot Clan without even consulting or involving their father/sensei. By CaW, Splinter was feeling superfluous and obsolete, which leads to his lack of focus and the humbling predicament he finds himself in later.

I always felt like if it wasn't intentional to skip Splinter's presence in RTNY, Eastman, Laird and Lawso found an excellent way to mine that oversight for a storyline later one.

[ToTheNines]

So Arseniey’s post coupled with my subsequent realization that Splinter is almost completely absent from everything after #11 through I, Monster has me imagining an alternate story line.


What if Splinter died in Northampton? Either of old age or wounds sustained during Silent Partner. But based on his “life goes on, and life is good” speech, perhaps his dying wish would be that they stay in Mass forever and leave the Foot behind, since he doesn’t believe the clone to be Saki at all and that their work is done.

Leo would obviously take that as gospel and Raph would not want to hear it. Not that the story needed it, but it would add additional emotional heft to RTNY.

Splinter being left out of RTNY entirely always
felt like an omission, but I also got the feeling like his arc in CaW commented on that.

His sons/students had grown up and were now making major decisions about their lives and the feud with the Foot Clan without even consulting or involving their father/sensei. By CaW, Splinter was feeling superfluous and obsolete, which leads to his lack of focus and the humbling predicament he finds himself in later.

I always felt like if it wasn't intentional to skip Splinter's presence in RTNY, Eastman, Laird and Lawso found an excellent way to mine that oversight for a storyline later one.

The goat has blessed my humble thread lol.


Yeah I am absolutely due for a CaW re-read with this new perspective. Might as well hit volume 2 when I’m done.

[ToTheNines]

Alright, I finished my CaW re-read last night. This still feels like a hole to me.

Obviously the turtles reflect deeply on the ramifications of fighting someone else’s war and endless violence, but Splinter never does. He is shown feeling lost and directionless.

The end of volume 1 is about the turtles growing up, largely. They decide amongst themselves and broker the truce with Karai without Splinter’s guidance at all. And we can assume that they decided to return and get involved in the first place on their own too. But how did Splinter feel about that? What would Splinter say if he knew Saki’s closest disciples were running around spreading chaos? Would he want them dealt with regardless of any potential truce?

His trials with the Rat King feel like karmic retribution more than anything, and his main lesson he learns is that he will do whatever it takes to survive. Which I suppose mirrors the turtles own decision to agree to the truce. It’s their best bet at survival even if it means making a deal with The Foot.

So yeah, you can reasonably fill in the blanks on your own with a lot of this, but the weirdest part remains Splinter’s hippie attitude (and April omitting him from her journal entries) in True Stories.

[ToTheNines]

Man, I need to do a full Mirage marathon and really dissect this. I just read #11 and Splinter gets zero page time until the end of the book when his speech around the camp fire ends with “life goes on, and life is good”. He’s totally unbothered!

Where’s the burning hatred and the remorse around his life’s work being mysteriously undone?

I will say the biggest reason for this whole thing is that E&L really let the turtles be the main characters and Splinter was mostly along for the ride. Following versions put him in the forefront of the story and in IDW he’s just straight up the main protagonist.




Funny to think about, but I’m sure he knew about Splinter. The Foot had obviously been doing their homework before the ambush and Shredder somehow knew Leo’s name in RTNY (I don’t believe he learned it during #1, but I could be wrong).

I had forgotten, but Splinter’s absence in the first part of True Stories gets a nod in the Berger segment at the beginning of Odyssey. His dialogue is:

“I WANT YOU TO KNOW HOW PROUD I AM OF ALL OF YOU, OF HOW MUCH YOU HAVE GROWN IN THE PAST TWO YEARS. THE BURDEN I PLACED YOU, THE CURSE THAT HAS DRIVEN US OUT HERE...
..IS NOT ONE THAT A
FATHER SHOULD EVER PLACE ON HIS SONS. BUT YOU HAVE MADE ME PROUD -- MADE OUR CLAN PROUD.
I MAY NOT SAY IT OFTEN ENOUGH, BUT I LOVE YOU ALL, MY SONS”

So that adds something at least.

[Wentos]

What you're saying makes a lot of sense. If we're being honest, what would have made the most thematic sense is if
A) it had been Splinter that was ambushed in "What Goes Around... Comes Around" and
B) the Foot Clan had killed him, with his dying breath being Leo's line that Shredder had returned.

It would have hammered home that there is no peace to be found in revenge and that the cycle of hatred and reprisal will always result in more suffering. It also would have taken Splinter off the board since he had outlived his usefulness to the plot.

[ToTheNines]

What you're saying makes a lot of sense. If we're being honest, what would have made the most thematic sense is if
A) it had been Splinter that was ambushed in "What Goes Around... Comes Around" and
B) the Foot Clan had killed him, with his dying breath being Leo's line that Shredder had returned.

It would have hammered home that there is no peace to be found in revenge and that the cycle of hatred and reprisal will always result in more suffering. It also would have taken Splinter off the board since he had outlived his usefulness to the plot.

Right. He’s not very important in Northampton, he’s absent from RTNY, he’s absent from the main plot of CaW, he’s largely absent from Vol. 2 outside of that premonition scene, and he’s not very important to Vol. 4 other than dying… and the Battle Nexus Splinter that Peter will probably never get around to.

Basically the only meaningful Splinter stuff after the early books is Vol. 3.

[Coola Yagami]

It is weird when you think about it. No reaction from Splinter in regards of Shredder coming back, but when you think about it, Shredder only saw the Turtles are enemies to kill rather than... WHAT THE **** ARE THESE CREATURES??

But that's something most comic book super villains usually do, whenever they're thrust in some bizarre situation they never seem to ponder how weird or outlandish the situation is, just how to turn things to their advantage or screw over the good guys. While the good guys might take pause and realize the ramifications of their current state, the bad guys are usually like "I just got somehow warped to some post apocalyptic alternate dimension where everyone i ever knew is dead and i might never find a way back to my timeline, but forget that, how can I screw over Goody McGood-Good and friends?"

I also don't think Shredder even know the talking rat he saw for a few seconds was the one that sent the turtle-men after him to begin with. Honestly, while it seems too obvious to us the readers, in-universe it's too much of a leap to assume the talking rat was the same rat in Japan that witnessed him kill Yoshi that somehow mutated and sent turtle-men after him. Especially since New York has been known to be crawling with rats. Maybe if Yoshi owned a more 'Japanese-exclusive pet' that would be very odd to see in New York?

[ToTheNines]

It is weird when you think about it. No reaction from Splinter in regards of Shredder coming back, but when you think about it, Shredder only saw the Turtles are enemies to kill rather than... WHAT THE **** ARE THESE CREATURES??

I also don't think Shredder even know the talking rat he saw for a few seconds was the one that sent the turtle-men after him to begin with. Honestly, while it seems too obvious to us the readers, in-universe it's too much of a leap to assume the talking rat was the same rat in Japan that witnessed him kill Yoshi that somehow mutated and sent turtle-men after him. Especially since New York has been known to be crawling with rats. Maybe if Yoshi owned a more 'Japanese-exclusive pet' that would be very odd to see in New York?

The letter Splinter wrote and attached to Raph's sai that he sent through the window in #1 did specify that the duel was over the fact that he murdered Yoshi and that he would be sending his 4 "students'.

But another tidbit from #1 is that Yoshi made his living in America by running a dojo. So Shredder was probably expecting human pupils from NYC.

[Andrew NDB]

It is weird when you think about it. No reaction from Splinter in regards of Shredder coming back, but when you think about it, Shredder only saw the Turtles are enemies to kill rather than... WHAT THE **** ARE THESE CREATURES??

In the bigger picture, Saki would have been aware of things like the Foot Mystics, magics, demons, etc., so maybe the idea of humanoid Turtles wasn't totally weird to him.

[ToTheNines]

True. If not IN RTNY, then surely right before it. It's missing some kind of a prelude, or a prologue. I think Peter and... probably it's mostly Kevin that was the most excited just to dive head-first into the main story.

I was thinking about this recently. One of the biggest let downs in Mirage history has to be Tales #70. That would have been the perfect book to tell a story like this.

It was the final Mirgae issue (as far as we knew) and they were revisiting RTNY? Surely it would be an incredible story… wrong! It was just kinda lighthearted and inconsequential.

IIRC, you even reached out to Berger and got them to make the back cover match the design of 19-21. If only the story could have matched their tone.

[Mr. Entertainment]

But another tidbit from #1 is that Yoshi made his living in America by running a dojo. So Shredder was probably expecting human pupils from NYC.
I've thought for a while that Saki after getting his revenge actually took over Yoshi's dojo and transformed it into a recruitment center for new Foot soldiers, thus permitted himself as the top dog of the criminal underworld.

[Andrew NDB]

I was thinking about this recently. One of the biggest let downs in Mirage history has to be Tales #70. That would have been the perfect book to tell a story like this.

It was the final Mirgae issue (as far as we knew) and they were revisiting RTNY? Surely it would be an incredible story… wrong! It was just kinda lighthearted and inconsequential.

IIRC, you even reached out to Berger and got them to make the back cover match the design of 19-21. If only the story could have matched their tone.

No bones about it, Tales #70 was disappointing given the general expectation that it would be a big missing RTNY chapter. RTNY was a lean, well-oiled machine for all 3 issues.

[ToTheNines]

No bones about it, Tales #70 was disappointing given the general expectation that it would be a big missing RTNY chapter. RTNY was a lean, well-oiled machine for all 3 issues.

Yeah… Lawson and Talbot teaming up for the final issue of Tales, ever? Did not end up how I was expecting lol.

Not that it matters at all, but I do wish they bumped that story a month earlier and saved “Dark Shadows” from #69 for the final issue. That’s a much for fitting “finale”.