Do you ever wish the Turtles were Shaolin Masters?

[Raphael's Sardonic wit]

When i was young and the Turtles came out, i understood what a ninja was from how the Turtles explained what it was. But i couldn't tell you the difference back then between karate or kung-fu, OR ninjitsu and shaolin. For me they were all more or less the same - martial arts. Only later after watching LOADS of kung-fu movies it became apparent the difference in kung-fu (http://www.shaolin.com) (CHINESE martial arts) and Karate (http://www.ska.org/) (JAPANESE martial arts). And after playing games like Shogun total war and Tenchu it finally clicked that Ninjas (http://home.comcast.net/~burokerl/ninja.htm) were assasins of the Samurai age in Japan, and were not kung-fu practitioners from China.

Anyway - I've since wondered what it'd be like if the Turtles weren't "Ninjas" and didn't have the Japanese influence. Instead, what if they were Shaolin masters? Not so much Shaolin monks (because the whole monk thing probably wouldn't catch on, although Splinter could be a wise monk?), but Shaolin kung-fu kicking Turtles? And what would they look like? How'd they fight (http://www.shaolin.com/page.asp?content_id=973)? Would each turtle have a specific kung-fu style like characters in a Tekken game? Would their weapons be any different?

I know some of you Turtle fans are just as much fans of the whole Japanese Ninja thing, but i'm more a fan of the Chinese Kung-fu thing - so it'd be interesting to see new interpretations of the Turtles in this style.

Opinions? Pictures? Ideas? please post!

[Meira-Bates]

Well I think it'd be neat as some sort of alternate universe sorta thing, but I like the TMNT just the way they are. There are so many possibilies on your idea @.@ I'd really like to see someone take a swing at it too. Funny thing is, in part of the fan comic I am doing, Mikey is telling one of his stories to the guys and while he does this the people reading the comic see TMNT characters playing the roles of the people in his story. In that part Splinter and Leo are Shaolin monks, with Splinter being the master and Leo being the sort that keeps getting summoned to bring peace JUST after he's hung his swords up and planned to fight no longer.

[XERO]

Simple

Leo- Bruce Lee style
Mike- Jackie Chan style
Ben- Robin Shou style
Don- Chow Yun Fat style
Raph- Jet Li style

[Voltron]

Ninjutsu actually was developed by a Chinese Warlord and an exiled Japanese Samurai. It was the coming together of two very powerful fighting styles, which is why Ninjutsu is such an extraordinary form of martial arts. It combines Kung-fu and Chinese spiritualism with Japanese fighting styles. Karate was actually derived from Ninjutsu, not the other way around.

I see what you mean though, it would be a cool concept.

[Raphael's Sardonic wit]

Simple

Leo- Bruce Lee style
Mike- Jackie Chan style
i was actually thinking the other way around. Mike as Bruce Lee because Mike as Lee did uses Nunchuku (like lee in Enter The dragon, Fist of Fury, Game of Death). And Leo as a jackie chan type character maybe with a drunken style which would be a twist considering Leo has always been the responsible one. However, i hear what you're saying cos the wacky Michaelangelo style is more suited to Jackie's wacky style.

[Kali]

Someone tried this: Teenage Mutant Kung-Fu Turtles. She also made several other changes to this Alternate Universe, like making the Turtles girls, their sifu (teacher) a cat, and their obsession is with pancakes. Unfortunately, it's not online anymore, that I can find.

BTW, your ninja info's a bit off. They didn't start out as assassins for hire. The style developed over generations to become "a highly illegal counter culture to the ruling samurai elite." Uncorrupted, ninjutsu is a mesh of spiritual, mental, and physical discipline, designed to bring these elements together in the "benevolent heart". The irony is that those books mentioned at the end of the article should go over this.

[Relay]

The Turtles would at least be bald like Shaolin monks, right?

[Taloniss]

The Turtles would at least be bald like Shaolin monks, right?

Would Splinter be bald? Because that'd be interesting.

[Relay]

The Turtles would at least be bald like Shaolin monks, right?

Would Splinter be bald? Because that'd be interesting.
He could either be hairy all over and just have a bald spot on the top of his head or could be shaved all over like those hairless cats. That would be just a little freaky.

[XERO]

The Turtles would at least be bald like Shaolin monks, right?

Would Splinter be bald? Because that'd be interesting.
He could either be hairy all over and just have a bald spot on the top of his head or could be shaved all over like those hairless cats. That would be just a little freaky.

Yeah, like Rasheed Wallace. :P

[Raphael's Sardonic wit]

I was thinking abour turning Splinter from a rat into either a mouse or chiwawa. Mouse because it's not that far removed from a rat.

[ImUntouchable]

Splinter should be bald and have dots on his head :lol:

[Orochi Chimera]

It would be interesting to see them using a different fighting style. Drunken-style/Drunken-style Boxing + Mikey = :tthumbsu: funny

[heretic888]

I know this is a bite late guys, but...

And after playing games like Shogun total war and Tenchu it finally clicked that Ninjas were assasins of the Samurai age in Japan, and were not kung-fu practitioners from China.

Err... not quite.

There were many assassins, stealers-in, spies, and various practitioners of "skullduggery" in feudal Japan (specifically the Sengoku Jidai period), and by no means were all them "ninja" or associated with "ninjutsu".

I have actually heard a similar definition many a time, even in 'historical' works: if its ancient Japan, and you're being sneaky, then you must be a Ninja!! Obviously, that's not quite the way it was.

"Ninja", per se, refers to groups such as the Iga-shu and Koga-shu. They were the samurai of the Iga and Koga regions of south-central Japan, and were primarily guerilla warriors and scouts. The assassination angle, which is often what is highly emphasized in dramatic literature, really wasn't that big of an emphasis (I can find but a handful of assassinations in feudal Japanese history attributed to the "ninja", and many of them are but myths).

The first recorded appearance of these individuals in history was in 1487, when they led a series of commando assaults against the Ashikaga Shogun's forces. Now, this is not to say that they did not exist prior to then --- but, very simply, that anything about them or ninjutsu before the 1480's is a matter of speculation and debate. There is, of course, the kuden (oral tradition) of the extant Ninpo traditions today.

The more historically accurate name for these individuals is 'shinobi no mono'. 'Ninja' is a modern term, invented sometime in the 1800's.

I know some of you Turtle fans are just as much fans of the whole Japanese Ninja thing, but i'm more a fan of the Chinese Kung-fu thing - so it'd be interesting to see new interpretations of the Turtles in this style.


I honestly doubt they'd be all that different, with the obvious lack of stealth training being the only notable change. Its not like most writers of the TMNT in their various mediums draw heavily upon Ninpo sources to begin with.

Ninjutsu actually was developed by a Chinese Warlord and an exiled Japanese Samurai. It was the coming together of two very powerful fighting styles, which is why Ninjutsu is such an extraordinary form of martial arts. It combines Kung-fu and Chinese spiritualism with Japanese fighting styles.

I wouldn't put too much weight into that account. In all truthfulness, the individuals you are citing (which I am guessing are types like Ikai, Cho Bussho, Kain Doshi, and so forth) probably never existed.

The sad truth is that we know very little about ninjutsu or the ninja prior to the 1480's. Of course, obviously, the art didn't just spring self-generated out of the cosmic Nothingness in 1487 --- but we just don't know much about what form it took before then.

Karate was actually derived from Ninjutsu, not the other way around.


I am unaware of any school of karate that has any historical connection to any ninjutsu ryuha.

i was actually thinking the other way around. Mike as Bruce Lee because Mike as Lee did uses Nunchuku (like lee in Enter The dragon, Fist of Fury, Game of Death). And Leo as a jackie chan type character maybe with a drunken style which would be a twist considering Leo has always been the responsible one. However, i hear what you're saying cos the wacky Michaelangelo style is more suited to Jackie's wacky style.

Just because Mike has a "wacky" personality does not necessarily mean he would fight that way. I seriously doubt any of the TMNT would have very divergent fighting styles --- they were all trained by the same teacher, after all.

BTW, your ninja info's a bit off. They didn't start out as assassins for hire.

No one really knows how the shinobi started out. Its a matter of speculation or, at best, oral tradition.

The style developed over generations to become "a highly illegal counter culture to the ruling samurai elite."

Heh. That's a bit of historical revisionism on the part of Hayes.

With the exception of Oda Nobunaga's invasion of Iga in the late 16th century, there is no historical evidence that the Iga-shu or Koga-shu were primarily "persecuted" against, whether religiously or economically. Also, most records indicate the individuals we identify as "ninja" were primarily weapon-carrying, land-owners --- members of the samurai class (mostly jizamurai, I believe).

It should be mentioned that Hayes has since retracted a lot of his earlier claims --- including the "persecuted peasants" angle.

Laterz. :wink: