[Turo602]

Originally Posted by MsMarvelDuckie

I'm not sure you understand what being a coward really means. Yes, in all those situations, he WAS quite scared. And with good reason. The others may have "known" the dangers, but they were far less concerned about them than he was. Call it overconfidence or simple underestimation of what they were getting into. At several points in Notes, Mikey points out that they don't know what they are dealing with, and urges them not to go poking into things they don't understand. He did the same thing in that C'thulu episode, which was certainly creepy as heck. In each case, they ended up getting in WAAY over their heads, in spite of his warnings.

In all of those cases, he seemed to have a far better grasp of the danger levels than the others did, possibly because of his "obsession" with horror movies- he fully EXPECTED something nasty and dangerous, and could easily imagine it being more than they could handle- more so than his brothers, who were far more confident and cool about those situations than they should have been. Any SANE person would have been much more concerned than they appeared to be, especially in Notes, when they found the claw marks and the acid that ate through the walls. That should have clued them in that they were dealing with something they might not be able to handle- but they basically just shrugged and kept going, with little pause even to consider what kind of creature could be capable of such a thing. Then again, Leo IS the "fearless" one, and he tends to brush off a lot of things that others would shy from, and Raph wouldn't want to be outdone by Leo, and Donnie is just too curious for his own darn good at times. Given their personalities, it's no wonder Mikey was the one with all the sense in those episodes!

How were they far less concerned? You seem to be blowing Mikey's character out of proportion here and in doing so, completely underselling the other turtles... Just because the others don't act stupid and scared for comic relief, doesn't mean they are any less scared. They're the goddamn TMNT, it's their job to confront dangerous beings, especially when they're affecting their home. Are their fights with Shredder any less intimidating or dangerous? Yet, Mikey doesn't act like a complete wuss. He suddenly becomes serious like the rest of them have been. That doesn't make him any less aware of the situation. Like I said, inconsistent, just to fit the theme of the episode or for the sake of comedy.

In contrast to his supposed "cowardice" in those episodes, REAL cowardice means that a person will attempt to avoid the perceived danger AT ALL COSTS, not just "when the chips are down" but will not even put themselves in the dangerous position AT ALL. Mikey has NEVER done that. Yes, he gets scared- who wouldn't in those situations?- but he NEVER refused to fight or to aid his brothers when in need, nor was he "forced" into anything. At any point, he could have left, and there's little they could have done to stop him. Particularly after the others had all been captured by the Atlantean guy. But he didn't. He stayed, in SPITE of being nervous and uncomfortable about those situations. And he pushed aside his fear to deal with the problem at hand. Hardly the acts of a coward.

Grumbling about having a bad feeling about something, and admitting fear, is NOT the same as cowardice- it's simply knowing that the situation is dangerous, and vocalizing that acknowledgement. In fact, in the Shokunobo one, he practically took the lead in getting everyone out safely! That's not the act of a coward. Real bravery is ACTING IN SPITE OF one's fear, stepping up when needed, even though one might be absolutely terrified. Bravery is not the ABSENCE of fear, it is being able to set it aside and get through the danger. A coward would not be able to do that, even under duress. He'd crumple under pressure, if that was the case. In none of those cases- even when he was most afraid, did he back down, turn tail, and run. He pushed through his fears, which a coward COULD NOT do. That's the difference. Even when he wanted to turn back in Notes, he didn't, partly because he didn't want to leave his brothers to face whatever was ahead without him, and partly because he didn't want to be left alone himself. In other words, he realized that there was safety in numbers, and that they might need him. That's not cowardice, it's common sense.

Nor was he a coward in the Battle Nexus or Grudge Match- he didn't think he could win, and he WAS very insecure and felt his chances were slim, but that's not the same thing either. In both fights, when he realized that there was more at stake than a simple tournament, he stepped up and showed his true colors- and won. Asking Leo for help knowing that he was woefully unprepared for the fight in Grudge Match shows that he knew he was in a bad position, not that he was a coward. There's nothing at all wrong with admitting to one's weaknesses, and that one needs help.

If you think Mikey hasn't displayed cowardice in this series, then we clearly haven't watched the same show. Did he not sit idly by in Notes From the Underground part 2 while his brothers were losing a fight? Like a coward, he did nothing to lend a helping hand in a moment of danger ensuring his own safety. Becoming courageous by the end of the arc is irrelevant because he always ends up regressing. For example, wanting to ditch his rematch with Kluh... Another cowardly act that he was talked away from going through with. Any growth Mikey makes as a character is ruined by his immaturity in later episodes. Also, realistically, he lost that fight against Kluh.

Heh, I was at my local Wal-Mart yesterday after we went to see Transformers, and as luck would have it, they had both several pegs on the main Nick TMNT display, as well as an entire endcap for the movie toys. I wasn't too impressed with the basic figures, but I fell in love with the larger "Combat Warrior" figures that had the actions, particularly Mikey. I loved how he twirls his three-piece, and he comes with the chucks for his other hand (HOW does one dual-wield a three-piece AND chucks together ??!! ) and you can also lower his arms to a "ready stance". Naturally, I HAD to get him!! The movie role-play stuff was cute. I want to get a pair of the chucks from the movie- they have some sort of dragon "etching" on them, like what he appears to have in the movie.

Good for you, I guess?

You seem to be confusing fear with cowardice, and they are not equivalent. One does not automatically indicate the other, and in all those instances, Mikey proved he was equal to the challenge, even when he was MOST afraid. That's NOT a coward, it's true courage.

I haven't confused a thing. Like I said, he's acted cowardly and that's very unlike a Ninja Turtle and his overall growth as a character is diminished by his constant switching back and forth from wimp to brave, brave to wimp. You're just reading too deep into his character trying to give him a psyche and explanation for his actions when the actual showings don't indicate what you're proposing.