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~~Leo656~~ · 03-27-2022, 10:59 PM

Alright, so aside from a few straggling Side Missions and a bunch of Riddler Revenge Challenge Maps, I'm almost "done" with Batman: Arkham City (Xbox 360). I beat it once normally and then took a break to get over being sick before really getting into the New Game Plus and finishing that.

Huge, HUGE improvement over the first game in almost every way, but there are still some things I feel like Origins did better. Having played each of the first three games at least twice I honestly feel like Origins and City are about equal in terms of quality with each of them having various Pros and Cons over the other. Asylum comes in last place despite being a Very Good Game simply because it's so tiny and linear compared to the others, and also the serious improvements to the combat and other gameplay.

Things I Thought Could Have Been Better:

- Again, Alfred is barely a factor, only existing as a wiseass voice over Batman's headset and never seen at all. I'd completely forgotten how practically nonexistent he was in the first two games; suffice to say, this is one place where Origins is way, way ahead since Alfred is all over that game and has a few important moments of his own.

- In that same vein, Commissioner Gordon feels like he gets even less to do in this game than in Asylum, where he was basically just a Dude In Distress to be rescued. These games seemingly had very little idea how to integrate Batman's supporting cast. Once again, Origins gets it right and did way, way better with this character. As well as...

- Not enough Bane, although his inclusion at all is welcome. But again, if you're playing these games in storyline order, beginning with Origins, it's a bit disappointing to start out with him being portrayed very well and one of the Main Boss Enemies and then have his role get smaller (and he himself reduced to generic Big Strong Guy) as time went on. The post-credits shot in Asylum of Bane's arm coming out of the water and grabbing the Titan container was a nice bit of foreshadowing, and this game's side mission does continue that thread fairly organically, but at the same time, it feels a bit underwhelming. In the end, you don't even fight Bane at all, which feels like a bit of a waste. Like you KNOW he's gonna betray you and you expect it will lead to something more than a cutscene, but nope.

- Lack of proper Boss fights (again). I know it's a broken record at this point, but when it comes to Boss Fights, Origins is the best of the 360/PS3-era games. Both Asylum and City barely have any, although City does have a couple more and the ones that are there are good. And again, like Asylum, the final Boss Fight feels a bit weak; you just pelt ice grenades at Clayface for a while and occasionally slice some one-hit-kill fodder enemies, and that's it. The first two games went so hard into crafting a story and an atmosphere, it kinda feels like they forgot that once in a while you'd need to actually fight someone. The Boss battles are good, they just needed a few more.

- Slightly Convoluted Story. You start off thinking the story is about One Thing, and by the end it's about a Whole Other Thing entirely, and a bunch of characters and plot points that are presented as being Super Important turn out to be a bit less so. The three main plots (Strange and Protocol 10, Ra's and his Master Plan, and Joker's Cure) don't seem to really mesh very well and seem forced together; Ra's isn't even introduced as a player until halfway through the game, Strange is presented upfront as the Big Bad but turns out to be just a pawn, and Joker by his own admission has nothing to do with any of it, so it all comes off a bit weird. It very much feels like they had two different ideas for the game's plot and decided to smash them together. Add in the Catwoman missions and it all gets even more disconnected and convoluted, as the Two-Face stuff feels like it's barely relevant to the rest of the game at all.

It's not a "bad" story, and as always I really like how hard they worked to try and fit a bunch of the main villains in there. It's just not always very gracefully done and some things feel a bit forced. As far as the "best" story of the first three games, I have to say I like Origins best. It just all comes together a lot more organically than this one's feeling of having Dueling Plotlines, and it uses the villains and supporting cast better.

- Too Much Riddler Stuff. I managed to complete all of it, but oh man, was the New Game Plus run a ton more fun not having to worry about any of it except for saving the hostages. 440 was ridiculous.

- Batman/Robin Interaction. Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad they found a place for Robin after ignoring him entirely in Asylum. But for one thing, they admitted that his main game inclusion was entirely tacked-on when they figured that having two remote item drops was redundant and that it would be cool to have Robin do the second drop. But beyond that, between that one moment and the way Bruce treats him in the "Harley Quinn's Revenge" DLC mission, it's like "DUDE, why does Batman hate Robin?" He's a complete and total dick to him, and I'm assuming that the developers thought people would think it was funny or cute, but it just really makes Batman come off like a needless asshole. I get that in the DLC mission, it's just Bruce swallowing his feelings when he thinks he saw Robin just get blown up, and he doesn't want to show he cares so he just gets all dismissive, but it comes off very poorly. You get no inclination whatsoever that Bruce actually cares about this kid at all and what's presented makes it feel like he hates having him around. This needed work.

- Cutscenes only use the default Batman costume, regardless of which one you're actually wearing at the time. Origins did this too, and I get that it'd be extra work, but c'mon guys. Can't be THAT hard to make work; the "Batman Begins" game from 2005 even managed to incorporate the different skins into the cutscenes, so I'm a little annoyed they can't make it work in these games.

- Can't use Catwoman's other skins in Story Mode. This is kind of a bummer, since on New Game Plus whenever you start it they ask which Batman skin you want to use; Catwoman only has two others but it would be fun to use them in the main game and not just the Challenge Maps.

- Anticlimactic Side Missions. I know that by definition these are mostly just time-wasting diversions, but a couple feel very tacked on. Going around saving the Political Prisoners from getting beaten up just feels like busywork since it doesn't lead to anything, and they can be hard to trigger so you kinda just go swinging around the map waiting for someone to cry for help. And the "Identity Thief"/Hush stuff felt like it should have led to something more than just a cutscene. Batman just letting him walk away and saying "Eh, I'll pick him up tomorrow" feels VERY out of character, too; "There's a guy walking around with my face and a huge grudge against me, but it's probably okay if I sleep on this one."

- Hugo Strange Not Established Well. Now, this sort of ties into the whole criticism of the story feeling convoluted, but I feel like it bears extra mention in Strange's case because almost all of his involvement and character motivation is left in the various files and audio tapes you collect; if you don't know him from the comics, you don't really ever get to know all of what's going on with him. You get SOME of it through the tapes, but the whole part of him being obsessed with becoming and replacing Bruce Wayne as Batman is entirely glossed over, only ever hinted at in one single Riddler interview tape. Once more, seeing as how he was set up (seemingly) to be the main villain, the fact that you can miss his entire plotline unless you listen to the tapes feels a bit shoddy.

- No Batcave Stuff. I get that it wouldn't really have fit the story, but Asylum had an "Emergency Batcave" setup on the island so it could've been cool to see something like that here; it's such a "definitive" Batman game in so many ways that to not have any hint of the Batcave, or Batmobile, and barely any Alfred for example makes it feel incomplete.

(Cont.)

03-27-2022, 10:59 PM	#44
~~Leo656~~ Banned Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: nWo Country Posts: 27,703	Alright, so aside from a few straggling Side Missions and a bunch of Riddler Revenge Challenge Maps, I'm almost "done" with Batman: Arkham City (Xbox 360). I beat it once normally and then took a break to get over being sick before really getting into the New Game Plus and finishing that. Huge, HUGE improvement over the first game in almost every way, but there are still some things I feel like Origins did better. Having played each of the first three games at least twice I honestly feel like Origins and City are about equal in terms of quality with each of them having various Pros and Cons over the other. Asylum comes in last place despite being a Very Good Game simply because it's so tiny and linear compared to the others, and also the serious improvements to the combat and other gameplay. Things I Thought Could Have Been Better: - Again, Alfred is barely a factor, only existing as a wiseass voice over Batman's headset and never seen at all. I'd completely forgotten how practically nonexistent he was in the first two games; suffice to say, this is one place where Origins is way, way ahead since Alfred is all over that game and has a few important moments of his own. - In that same vein, Commissioner Gordon feels like he gets even less to do in this game than in Asylum, where he was basically just a Dude In Distress to be rescued. These games seemingly had very little idea how to integrate Batman's supporting cast. Once again, Origins gets it right and did way, way better with this character. As well as... - Not enough Bane, although his inclusion at all is welcome. But again, if you're playing these games in storyline order, beginning with Origins, it's a bit disappointing to start out with him being portrayed very well and one of the Main Boss Enemies and then have his role get smaller (and he himself reduced to generic Big Strong Guy) as time went on. The post-credits shot in Asylum of Bane's arm coming out of the water and grabbing the Titan container was a nice bit of foreshadowing, and this game's side mission does continue that thread fairly organically, but at the same time, it feels a bit underwhelming. In the end, you don't even fight Bane at all, which feels like a bit of a waste. Like you KNOW he's gonna betray you and you expect it will lead to something more than a cutscene, but nope. - Lack of proper Boss fights (again). I know it's a broken record at this point, but when it comes to Boss Fights, Origins is the best of the 360/PS3-era games. Both Asylum and City barely have any, although City does have a couple more and the ones that are there are good. And again, like Asylum, the final Boss Fight feels a bit weak; you just pelt ice grenades at Clayface for a while and occasionally slice some one-hit-kill fodder enemies, and that's it. The first two games went so hard into crafting a story and an atmosphere, it kinda feels like they forgot that once in a while you'd need to actually fight someone. The Boss battles are good, they just needed a few more. - Slightly Convoluted Story. You start off thinking the story is about One Thing, and by the end it's about a Whole Other Thing entirely, and a bunch of characters and plot points that are presented as being Super Important turn out to be a bit less so. The three main plots (Strange and Protocol 10, Ra's and his Master Plan, and Joker's Cure) don't seem to really mesh very well and seem forced together; Ra's isn't even introduced as a player until halfway through the game, Strange is presented upfront as the Big Bad but turns out to be just a pawn, and Joker by his own admission has nothing to do with any of it, so it all comes off a bit weird. It very much feels like they had two different ideas for the game's plot and decided to smash them together. Add in the Catwoman missions and it all gets even more disconnected and convoluted, as the Two-Face stuff feels like it's barely relevant to the rest of the game at all. It's not a "bad" story, and as always I really like how hard they worked to try and fit a bunch of the main villains in there. It's just not always very gracefully done and some things feel a bit forced. As far as the "best" story of the first three games, I have to say I like Origins best. It just all comes together a lot more organically than this one's feeling of having Dueling Plotlines, and it uses the villains and supporting cast better. - Too Much Riddler Stuff. I managed to complete all of it, but oh man, was the New Game Plus run a ton more fun not having to worry about any of it except for saving the hostages. 440 was ridiculous. - Batman/Robin Interaction. Don't get me wrong, I'm really glad they found a place for Robin after ignoring him entirely in Asylum. But for one thing, they admitted that his main game inclusion was entirely tacked-on when they figured that having two remote item drops was redundant and that it would be cool to have Robin do the second drop. But beyond that, between that one moment and the way Bruce treats him in the "Harley Quinn's Revenge" DLC mission, it's like "DUDE, why does Batman hate Robin?" He's a complete and total dick to him, and I'm assuming that the developers thought people would think it was funny or cute, but it just really makes Batman come off like a needless asshole. I get that in the DLC mission, it's just Bruce swallowing his feelings when he thinks he saw Robin just get blown up, and he doesn't want to show he cares so he just gets all dismissive, but it comes off very poorly. You get no inclination whatsoever that Bruce actually cares about this kid at all and what's presented makes it feel like he hates having him around. This needed work. - Cutscenes only use the default Batman costume, regardless of which one you're actually wearing at the time. Origins did this too, and I get that it'd be extra work, but c'mon guys. Can't be THAT hard to make work; the "Batman Begins" game from 2005 even managed to incorporate the different skins into the cutscenes, so I'm a little annoyed they can't make it work in these games. - Can't use Catwoman's other skins in Story Mode. This is kind of a bummer, since on New Game Plus whenever you start it they ask which Batman skin you want to use; Catwoman only has two others but it would be fun to use them in the main game and not just the Challenge Maps. - Anticlimactic Side Missions. I know that by definition these are mostly just time-wasting diversions, but a couple feel very tacked on. Going around saving the Political Prisoners from getting beaten up just feels like busywork since it doesn't lead to anything, and they can be hard to trigger so you kinda just go swinging around the map waiting for someone to cry for help. And the "Identity Thief"/Hush stuff felt like it should have led to something more than just a cutscene. Batman just letting him walk away and saying "Eh, I'll pick him up tomorrow" feels VERY out of character, too; "There's a guy walking around with my face and a huge grudge against me, but it's probably okay if I sleep on this one." - Hugo Strange Not Established Well. Now, this sort of ties into the whole criticism of the story feeling convoluted, but I feel like it bears extra mention in Strange's case because almost all of his involvement and character motivation is left in the various files and audio tapes you collect; if you don't know him from the comics, you don't really ever get to know all of what's going on with him. You get SOME of it through the tapes, but the whole part of him being obsessed with becoming and replacing Bruce Wayne as Batman is entirely glossed over, only ever hinted at in one single Riddler interview tape. Once more, seeing as how he was set up (seemingly) to be the main villain, the fact that you can miss his entire plotline unless you listen to the tapes feels a bit shoddy. - No Batcave Stuff. I get that it wouldn't really have fit the story, but Asylum had an "Emergency Batcave" setup on the island so it could've been cool to see something like that here; it's such a "definitive" Batman game in so many ways that to not have any hint of the Batcave, or Batmobile, and barely any Alfred for example makes it feel incomplete. (Cont.)