The Technodrome Forums - View Single Post - tmnt and religio-spirituality

*heretic888* · 10-22-2002, 11:56 AM

Donatello, I believe, is probably the most philosophical and idealistic of the brothers (in the postconventional sense, anyway). Personally, although I enjoy the TMNT stories written by others, I dont tend to regard them as protraying the 'authentic' characters unless written by Eastman and/or Laird (that's basically 1-12, 19-21, and 48-62 of volume 1, the Tales of the TMNT series, volume 2 to a lesser degree, and the newly created volume 4). Thus, even on truly intriguing storyarchs such as Twilight of the Rings, I do not usually tend to regard them as expressing the 'real' Mike or the 'real' Don.

Regardless, Donatello is still the most philosophical and idealistic of the four in my opinion. Michelangelo, however, is the most spiritual I believe. By 'spiritual' i am referring more to a state of consciousness and mode of identity-reference, as well as source of personal motivation. In other words, Mike doesnt necessarily have to talk about 'being spiritual' in order to have a large level of spiritual development. It shines through in his words, actions, and thoughts (when the thoughts are actually revealed, that is). He is clearly the most postconventional, selfless, and compassionate of the four. And this all does not seem to come from a system of rules, beliefs, or ideals such as that demonstrated by Leo or Don, but out of Mike's own nature. It's the difference of being 'moral' and 'spiritual' because you have to think about it (Leo and Don) and being 'moral' and 'spiritual' because it is your own spontaneous nature. In Zen, it is called 'sponataneous right action' and sometimes 'mushin' or 'no-mind'.

The near-death experience angle is interesting for Michelangelo. I think he is the one most likely to experience a peak experience as well (due to his high level of development). But, you may want to consider that a peak experience involving Judeo-Christian imagery might not necessarily invovle the mythic-literal interpretation most Christians would give it. Beings and gods experienced in visions are in fact 'archetypes', symbols for one's own very Self. Perhaps you could tie that into the story, that Mike comes to realize that the Christ persona he experiences is a symbol for his own potential. Just a thought...

Seth, Leo's insane fundamentalist son?? My... how.... biblical.

That quote from Romans is interesting, but I still believe Michelangelo would find it exceedingly difficult to simply 'beleive' and 'obey' a mythic figure just because a book in front of him tells him to. An extreme religiosity for Biblical religion would be a regression for Mike's character, nor a progression.....

The four horseman theory is still interesting.... the tmnt battled the four horseman (and won!) in the Archie tmnt.. you might want to use that as source material or inspiration. I beleive each of them supposedly aligned with a horseman: Leo=Death, Don=War, Raph=Pestilince, and Mike=Famine. Then again, i might have that wrong.....

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10-22-2002, 11:56 AM	#25
heretic888 Foot Elite Join Date: Oct 2002 Posts: 3,344	my response to HT again Donatello, I believe, is probably the most philosophical and idealistic of the brothers (in the postconventional sense, anyway). Personally, although I enjoy the TMNT stories written by others, I dont tend to regard them as protraying the 'authentic' characters unless written by Eastman and/or Laird (that's basically 1-12, 19-21, and 48-62 of volume 1, the Tales of the TMNT series, volume 2 to a lesser degree, and the newly created volume 4). Thus, even on truly intriguing storyarchs such as Twilight of the Rings, I do not usually tend to regard them as expressing the 'real' Mike or the 'real' Don. Regardless, Donatello is still the most philosophical and idealistic of the four in my opinion. Michelangelo, however, is the most spiritual I believe. By 'spiritual' i am referring more to a state of consciousness and mode of identity-reference, as well as source of personal motivation. In other words, Mike doesnt necessarily have to talk about 'being spiritual' in order to have a large level of spiritual development. It shines through in his words, actions, and thoughts (when the thoughts are actually revealed, that is). He is clearly the most postconventional, selfless, and compassionate of the four. And this all does not seem to come from a system of rules, beliefs, or ideals such as that demonstrated by Leo or Don, but out of Mike's own nature. It's the difference of being 'moral' and 'spiritual' because you have to think about it (Leo and Don) and being 'moral' and 'spiritual' because it is your own spontaneous nature. In Zen, it is called 'sponataneous right action' and sometimes 'mushin' or 'no-mind'. The near-death experience angle is interesting for Michelangelo. I think he is the one most likely to experience a peak experience as well (due to his high level of development). But, you may want to consider that a peak experience involving Judeo-Christian imagery might not necessarily invovle the mythic-literal interpretation most Christians would give it. Beings and gods experienced in visions are in fact 'archetypes', symbols for one's own very Self. Perhaps you could tie that into the story, that Mike comes to realize that the Christ persona he experiences is a symbol for his own potential. Just a thought... Seth, Leo's insane fundamentalist son?? My... how.... biblical. That quote from Romans is interesting, but I still believe Michelangelo would find it exceedingly difficult to simply 'beleive' and 'obey' a mythic figure just because a book in front of him tells him to. An extreme religiosity for Biblical religion would be a regression for Mike's character, nor a progression..... The four horseman theory is still interesting.... the tmnt battled the four horseman (and won!) in the Archie tmnt.. you might want to use that as source material or inspiration. I beleive each of them supposedly aligned with a horseman: Leo=Death, Don=War, Raph=Pestilince, and Mike=Famine. Then again, i might have that wrong..... [/quote] __________________ "Ninpo began as training to become a moral people and to learn to endure in whatever social condition one is in; to know and accept one's fate, and to live for human beings and all other creatures. The person who masters all of these is a Ninja." (Masaaki Hatsumi)