[AquaParade]

Originally Posted by Leo656

Oh, sure, we have SO much to thank FW TMNT for.

Specifically, Dad jokes, non-stop pizza references, Mikey being a useless retard (which has gotten MUCH worse in every version since but was established in FW), and of course, "COWABUNGA, DUUUUUUDES!"

So, SO much to be grateful for.

I'll be honest, I don't hate the show as much as some do, but it does deserve all the sh*t it gets (it probably deserves a lot more, frankly) and the fact that anyone older than ten can not only still watch it but defend it with a straight face just blows my goddamn mind.

I'm like thisclose to wishing it never even existed, myself, except that without the cartoon you don't get the toys or the 1990 movie, or the 4Kids show later on. But the fact that people are STILL so obsessed with one of the worst things to exist in the franchise is troublesome.

People aren't still romantically in love with Super-Friends 40 years later, no matter how much they love Superman and Batman. Not even if that cartoon made you love those characters. Because everyone knows Super-Friends is sh*t, and we don't pretend otherwise. I wish people could look at FW TMNT the same way.

It shouldn't be on a pedestal just because it's the first thing we saw and it shouldn't still be the template NOW. It's legacy SHOULD be, "Not a terrible first try by the (non-existent) standards of its era, but we've learned how to do better since." And in turn, we should do better, and want better things. You never move Forward by looking Backward.

Nothing good comes from mining FW for inspiration because you can't grow fruit in poisoned soil. The end.

Fred Wolf is a funny beast. It was sort of useful until it wasn't. Without it, there may have never been the first film, the comics may have died out sooner, we would probably never have seen 2k3, or almost anything that followed.
Then again, maybe not.
And mileage will very on whether or not those are good things.

But at some point, Fred Wolf's mark on the franchise outstayed it's welcome. That's the part I find interesting.
The comparison has been made before, but TMNT reminds me so much of the Batman franchise. Adam West's show had a way of saving Batman while simultaneously demolishing Batman. Fortunately, we had the power of Neil Adams, Frank Miller, Tim Burton and other's to steer the character in the right direction.

TMNT need's it's Tim Burton right now. But that's another story.