Writing Point of View of the 2014 TMNT Movie's Script

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Leo656

You were. You were definitely told that. Repeatedly. I will vouch that I personally witnessed many, MANY posters, most of which no longer brave this wasteland, tell you with the utmost certainty and snootiness that, indeed, "Just wait and see, they will be Ninja-ing out the ass, just like Kevin Eastman promised, because Kevin Eastman helped them make it, and Kevin Eastman would never sell out the integrity of a property he co-created and then tried to immediately distance himself from for many, many years, simply for money. He cares too much about the fans, after all. So just you wait, there will be epic Ninja Action and tons of it, and the movie will definitely NOT be the corniest goddamn thing you ever saw. Honest."

I believe you were also called a "whiny know-it-all" and stuff like that quite repeatedly for daring to doubt them. I may be paraphrasing. And when they found out they'd been 100% in the wrong, all they had was, "Whatever, it was still good!" People sure don't like having to stand by their rhetoric.

I'll cop to being wrong, it made more than I expected. That's about it.

Oh yeah. I was hoping upon hope it would tank and probably even said that it would.

Didn't make as much as GotG or most of the other GOOD summer blockbusters this year, but it made money.

And now we get to do this all over again!

But yeah. I won't NAME NAMES or anything but...I, we, was so, so utterly right about...pretty much everything!

[Leo656]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

Great, and I thought I would never see the day when I would become a bay-hater.

To be fair, while "Bay-Hater" is a cliche anymore, it's NOT incorrect to be one. There are REASONS, legitimate ones, why people think his movies are bad.

Like, my thing about using that term as an insult is, it's not an insult if it's valid. Just because it's a "cheap cliche" doesn't mean people shouldn't feel that way. Most, not all, but most of his films are simply not good. Very flashy, and even very exciting on a visceral level at times, but not "Good". And people shouldn't be admonished for speaking the plain truth.

To me, it's far more questionable for people to admit liking Bad movies in a completely un-ironic sense. Sure, everyone likes bad movies to some degree; but some people actually enjoy them, and that puzzles me. It's like they're not in on the joke.

[Xiewin]

Originally Posted by Leo656

To be fair, while "Bay-Hater" is a cliche anymore, it's NOT incorrect to be one. There are REASONS, legitimate ones, why people think his movies are bad.

Like, my thing about using that term as an insult is, it's not an insult if it's valid. Just because it's a "cheap cliche" doesn't mean people shouldn't feel that way. Most, not all, but most of his films are simply not good. Very flashy, and even very exciting on a visceral level at times, but not "Good". And people shouldn't be admonished for speaking the plain truth.

To me, it's far more questionable for people to admit liking Bad movies in a completely un-ironic sense. Sure, everyone likes bad movies to some degree; but some people actually enjoy them, and that puzzles me. It's like they're not in on the joke.

I admittedly forgot to put it between quotations, but the reason to why I used that term was particularly because it's such an overused word to describe those who "whine" about this movies. But yeah, I agree that their not wrong. They do have legitimate reasons for disliking his films, and It's obvious because almost every single movie he makes is just absolutely terrible on so many levels. And I'm glad I'm one now. So you're right, people shouldn't be admonished for speaking the plain truth.

[Mr._Mutant_Man]

I thought the new TMNT movie was better than expected. However, my expectations were pretty low.

I liked that a lot of the movie followed April O'Neil. I think it would have been neat to have a relatively normal reporter enter this strange world of mutant turtles and Foot clans. I'm not a huge fan of April having this connection with the turtles from the start. There were a few cute scenes that came out of it, but it came off as too forced.

Also, the part of the movie that I had trouble suspending my disbelief for was April leaving the turtles by that sewer grate when the lab was burning down. I came in there expecting mutant turtles, but I couldn't buy into the idea that a girl that apparently loved these turtles so much would leave them to fall into the sewer rather than take them home and protect them.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by Mr._Mutant_Man

I thought the new TMNT movie was better than expected. However, my expectations were pretty low.

I liked that a lot of the movie followed April O'Neil. I think it would have been neat to have a relatively normal reporter enter this strange world of mutant turtles and Foot clans. I'm not a huge fan of April having this connection with the turtles from the start. There were a few cute scenes that came out of it, but it came off as too forced.

Also, the part of the movie that I had trouble suspending my disbelief for was April leaving the turtles by that sewer grate when the lab was burning down. I came in there expecting mutant turtles, but I couldn't buy into the idea that a girl that apparently loved these turtles so much would leave them to fall into the sewer rather than take them home and protect them.

Absolutely. That's why it was called April O'Neil: The Movie.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Mr._Mutant_Man

Also, the part of the movie that I had trouble suspending my disbelief for was April leaving the turtles by that sewer grate when the lab was burning down. I came in there expecting mutant turtles, but I couldn't buy into the idea that a girl that apparently loved these turtles so much would leave them to fall into the sewer rather than take them home and protect them.

Yeah, it's little stuff like that, that would be so simple to tweak, which collectively is just... I mean, I dunno, why not have the child April trip and lose them? Too difficult?

Goodness knows doing it that way and April is upset about it, it might solicit sympathy from the audience for both the 'lab animals' and young April. But.. macho Bay movie, emotions are scary, can't include those.

[Coola Yagami]

One can only imagine what April is thinking.
"My long lost pets I loved and named as a child are back.... And they can talk.. And one of them wants to bone me..."

[TigerClaw]

Originally Posted by Coola Yagami

One can only imagine what April is thinking.
"My long lost pets I loved and named as a child are back.... And they can talk.. And one of them wants to bone me..."

Maybe when they were working on the script, and hearing about Megan Fox being a huge fan of Mikey, They probably tried working that into the movie a bit more.

The Nick series has Donnie falling head over heals with April, And they been taking that further.

[Chris]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

Apparently they ARE that stupid.

http://www.craveonline.com/film/inte...cers-interview

That interview is just horrible to read as a TMNT fan. They just don't get it at all. It's painful. They basically thought as long as we have cool action scenes, the guys yell "cowabunga" and fight Shredder then everyone will be happy.

The part about bringing Jonathan Liebesman inboard basically confirms what we already thought - they had 1 big action scene in mind. They pitched the film based on that and worked everything else around it. Story comes second to "this scene is gonna be cool". Liebesman even confirms Raph smacking into the Humvee with his shell was in there from the start. So never mind that the eventual script has him injured with a cracked shell, the "signature moment" remains unchanged.

"Writers throwing out lines" - yep, that's how the script was put together and it shows. Seriously, I know a lot of films have the writers on set making tweaks based on how the actors are approaching the material and any changes to story that are required, but I actually wouldn't be surprised if most of this script was done on the fly, tweaking the blue doors script as they went. Especially when you have one of the producers saying that Splinter "just had" their weapons lying around. I'm not surprised by the answer but that level of absolute stupidity still hurts.

"Dialogue is expensive" - erm not really. A CGI turtle is a CGI turtle whether it's an action scene or a dialogue scene. What he means is they feel the money is better spent on the action scenes rather than on scenes that add depth to the characters or plot. Plus if it was that expensive to animate and you want to save money take all the rubbish off the TMNT, having to animate all that extra stuff on them may not have cost a fortune but it can't have helped keep costs down. The "most important scenes" were therefore those that strung their big set pieces together in the most efficient way possible (or at least kept the TMNT out of most of the exposition scenes).

If cost was that much of an issue (and it sure sounds like it was behind everything from the running time to how much time the guys had on screen) then they shouldn't have made the TMNT fully CGI mini Hulks. They should have gone the guys in suits with faces done motion capture route that Laird talked about before the sale. Fully motion captured for action scenes maybe. Plus that would mean Shredder wouldn't need to be Megatron Jr so they'd save there too. Unique silhouettes is fine (it's been done for a while now) but the bulk up wasn't needed and if it drove up the costs when things were as tight as it sounds then it was a bad idea.

Deleted scenes - yes you could do that (most people would understand having unfinished/no special affects or animatics) you just don't want to or can't because it would show just how much the plot was altered during production as Sacks and Shredder were split into different characters. Why they just can't admit this I'll never know! It's so obvious and the international trailers even use Fichtner's dialogue tracks in the Shredder clips.

"Super Duper Shredder"? I'm actually scared! How many more blades can they fit on that guy?!

[Bry]

Originally Posted by Xiewin

Apparently they ARE that stupid.

http://www.craveonline.com/film/inte...cers-interview

Hahahaha. Ohhh man. It's like a parade of idiots.

Interviewer: Tell me about the supersuit, because it used to just be that Shredder was such a great fighter that that was enough of a challenge alone. Now the Turtles have super-strenght, so you gave him a super suit.

Jonathan Liebesman: I think what happens is if you’re going to buff up the Turtles, like we did, you need the villain to be physically… You don’t ever want you villain to be an underdog. If he’s going to take on four buff, awesome Turtles he has to look the part.

I love how oblivious he is to the fact that the 'roided-out Hulk Turtles were an objectively terrible idea. The minute he says the words "if you’re going to", how does he not realize they clearly shouldn't have? Is there no voice in his head saying, "if you have to make excuses and justifications for your decision, maybe it was a bad decision"? That's how dumb and talentless these people are about creating movies and crafting stories. They have no concept of actual drama or struggle or stakes. Just "BIGGER IS BETTER, KEWL, AWESOME, BOOM BOOM BANG".

Originally Posted by Xiewin

I know that my venting is getting really repetitive, but I can't help but so frustrated that these very people are in charge of first-live action turtle film since 1990 one, and they just completely wasted the opportunity.

On the plus side, the 1990 movie still exists and can be rewatched any time. God knows I had to on August 9th in order to get the rotten taste of this thing out of my brain. (And it worked!)

Originally Posted by Leo656

I believe you were also called a "whiny know-it-all" and stuff like that quite repeatedly for daring to doubt them. I may be paraphrasing. And when they found out they'd been 100% in the wrong, all they had was, "Whatever, it was still good!" People sure don't like having to stand by their rhetoric.

I'll cop to being wrong, it made more than I expected. That's about it.

There are always the kind of fans who will be happy with anything. And that's fine for them. But when they get aggressive about it, spewing denial as if it's fact, breathlessly defending everything and anything, and getting pushy and hostile with anyone who doesn't want to lower their standards so low the bar's buried underground... you're gonna have a bad time.

[jenna]

Interviewer: Tell me about the supersuit, because it used to just be that Shredder was such a great fighter that that was enough of a challenge alone. Now the Turtles have super-strenght, so you gave him a super suit.

Jonathan Liebesman: I think what happens is if you’re going to buff up the Turtles, like we did, you need the villain to be physically… You don’t ever want you villain to be an underdog. If he’s going to take on four buff, awesome Turtles he has to look the part.

Ok. Now I'm just angry. Worried The Shredder would seem like the underdog? Well then don't make the turtles giant hulks! Seriously. It's not that difficult. Giant turtles defeats the whole point of the turtles. Size does not equal awesomeness. They are supposed to be unlikely heroes. Did Liebesman never read 'The Tortoise and the Hare'? It's called irony.

[Leo656]

The only principle Bay and Co. believe in is, "Bigger Is Better". Anything else is subject to change, but Bigger Is Better will always be their starting point.

And that's why everything they do is overblown, over-produced, over-done, and over-stupid. You can NOT build a solid house on a cracked foundation.

[TheSkeletonMan939]

What the hell?

Let’s go back further. Why did you feel the need to buff up the Turtles? They’re taller than they’ve ever been…

Jonathan Liebesman: So Michael [Bay]s’ initial instinct, which I think is an excellent instinct, is for people who aren’t fans of the Turtles, he wanted to distinguish them physically from one another so you could literally see their silhouette and tell the difference between the Turtles. And I think that’s very smart because not everyone grew up loving Ninja Turtles.

.....? Silhouettes? Huh? What's this man babbling about? Unless you are severely color-blind you can tell which turtle is which based on their colored bandanas, not by how big each turtle is. They all look the same, anyway - huge!

Am I misreading or misinterpreting what Liebesman is saying here, or is this really as stupid as it sounds?

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by jenna

Ok. Now I'm just angry. Worried The Shredder would seem like the underdog? Well then don't make the turtles giant hulks! Seriously. It's not that difficult. Giant turtles defeats the whole point of the turtles. Size does not equal awesomeness. They are supposed to be unlikely heroes. Did Liebesman never read 'The Tortoise and the Hare'? It's called irony.

This was literally all I was saying when this aspect of the movie was brought up during filming, and I was met with almost nothing but "shut up whiny hater".

I know I've said this a lot recently but it's kinda chapped my ass about not only being met with that during filming, but also NOT having a good new live-action TMNT movie.

[TrickOrTreater]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

What the hell?



.....? Silhouettes? Huh? What's this man babbling about? Unless you are severely color-blind you can tell which turtle is which based on their colored bandanas, not by how big each turtle is. They all look the same, anyway - huge!

Am I misreading or misinterpreting what Liebesman is saying here, or is this really as stupid as it sounds?

It's really as stupid as it sounds.

Yes, in the original cartoon, if you couldn't see the masks or weapons it was a little hard to tell who was who.

But, for example, the NEW cartoon has solved this issue by giving the Turtles not only different heights(while still keeping them Ninja Turtley) but also giving them different body types.

Leo is the lean leader, Raph is the stocky fighter, Donnie is the tall thin tech guy, and Mikey is the youngest smallest party kid.

Visibly recognizable even in silhouettes and freaking everything.

Folks on the cartoon are actually talented and care about the fans though.

[Bry]

Originally Posted by TheSkeletonMan939

What the hell?

.....? Silhouettes? Huh? What's this man babbling about? Unless you are severely color-blind you can tell which turtle is which based on their colored bandanas, not by how big each turtle is. They all look the same, anyway - huge!

Am I misreading or misinterpreting what Liebesman is saying here, or is this really as stupid as it sounds?

It really is. Notice how he never actually answers the question?

Thing is, giving them unique body types in addition to their unique personalities actually is a smart idea. And like Trick said, the Nick show did a brilliant job giving them unique body types without completely changing their overall appearance - they're absolutely still the TMNT as everyone knows and loves them, and though they stand out better as individuals, they still look like a cohesive unit together.

Meanwhile, Liebesman's answer is clearly him trying to find a logical reason for the decision after-the-fact, and failing. Because it was never logical. It was solely based on Bay's need for everything to be as big and over-the-top as possible at all times. And you're right - at their massive size, it's actually harder to tell their individual body types apart, because the frame of reference is already far bigger than anyone could naturally be used to. People will look at them and just see "big". Which is why the Nick show's designs can be far subtler than Bay's but also far more effective.

[IndigoErth]

Originally Posted by Chris

The part about bringing Jonathan Liebesman inboard basically confirms what we already thought - they had 1 big action scene in mind. They pitched the film based on that and worked everything else around it. Story comes second to "this scene is gonna be cool". Liebesman even confirms Raph smacking into the Humvee with his shell was in there from the start. So never mind that the eventual script has him injured with a cracked shell, the "signature moment" remains unchanged.

Given that this scene was rather hard on Leo... not sure how I feel about them basing a movie around a central scene that pretty much beat the snot out of him.

At least I guess he got to look all heroic 'n stuff in a piece of it...



The silhouettes thing is kind of ridiculous. As has been mentioned, look at Nick. That is a lot more simple, cartoony design and yet the subtle variations make it obvious enough if you only saw a silhouetted shape of each. Guess they assume most of the audience isn't observant enough and too dumb to figure that out with the movie guys, must go overboard.

[Leo656]

It's pretty obvious that "The Audience Is Dumb" was a major point the studio was very reliant on. Most of their... "Questionable" decisions were clearly made with "The fans are stupid, they won't care" as the reasoning behind it.

[Coola Yagami]

Originally Posted by Leo656

It's pretty obvious that "The Audience Is Dumb" was a major point the studio was very reliant on. Most of their... "Questionable" decisions were clearly made with "The fans are stupid, they won't care" as the reasoning behind it.

It just upsets me that so many fans and audiences proved them right..... That's the part that really gets me.

[Leo656]

Yeah, I know. I feel the same about wrestling fans, sometimes. Like, they buy my stuff, so God Bless 'Em, but oh man... sometimes... sometimes...