Official Episode Discussion: S2 #4 "Mutagen Man Unleashed"

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by saber16

Spoiler:

Honestly, I was rooting for Mutagen Man to become a hero in some way (love the design, and I'm cool with underdog stories), and even as it stands I don't want to see him destroyed - but if it happens, it's out of the Turtles control.

The guy can hurl cars, tear down buildings, throw acid out of his hands and has zero understanding of right and wrong.
I see the comments saying "He was justified for attacking Raph and Mikey, and he didn't know any better."

He was going to KILL them -
REALLY, people gave Splinter crap for making them hand over their weapons - despite how easily they were able to adapt to that handicap.

But Timothy turns himself into Mutagen Man of his own free will, nearly shoves acid in Raphael's face, and vows to kill the turtles despite saving his life time and time again, when he was a human and even as an insane blob of guts. He even turned on Donnie, the closest thing he had to a friend who's been taking care of him and looking for a cure.
Mutagen Man get's a free pass because "It's not his fault, the mutagen made him do it." Or, "He never wanted to become this thing."
Well, to bad. He IS that thing now, and all he's doing is endangering lives. Had he become a "Cool" mutant and still ended up becoming a villain, would it still be the mutagen's fault?


The complaints about April, "They saved her life multiple times! She can't be mean at them just because they played a hand in her father getting mutated! So ungrateful."

Meanwhile, "The turtles saved Timothy's life multiple times, but he can't help it that he wants to kill them for no reason other than to keep April to himself. It's the mutagen! They need to be nicer to him!"

Hell, he was going to kill Casey for no other reason that being with April.
Would he have done the same to her father if he was with her (mutated or not), other friends in school?

The turtles already have the foot and Kraang to worry about - not to mention any accidental results that come from the missing mutagen. The last thing they need on their plate is a walking emotional time bomb to endanger the city.

agree so much XD

[Papenbrook]

Hey, I think I noticed something.

This episode appears to have similarities to the TMNT 2k3 episode "Insane In The Membrane".

[saber16]

Originally Posted by Shark_Blade

Bless this post.

Originally Posted by BabyTurtles

agree so much XD

[turtlefan1]

you know i know this sound harsh but i losing patetince with april really she was claysat for the entire series had the guys not come to save her from the kranng in rise of the turtles the world would have been doomed and add the fact the first fight with the kraang is what revealed the turtles and splinter to shredder and the foot in the first place so april can say the turtles ruined her life but she also ruined theirs.

[Electric]

in defense of mutagen man, this introduction does make some sense. Hes obviously lost some sense of intelligence from the mutation, and now that hes a mutant like he always wanted to be, he lets it go to his head.

he told donatello that he liked april and that she was a friend, so when he was able to go find her, he did, because he wanted to. He takes the idea that now that hes a mutant, he can do whatever he wants. he even refers to the police man as a "stupid human". i took this as him thinking hes above them since hes a mutant now.

so while hes not sticking to his heroic ideals and it was odd of him to attack the turtles, i think he just lost the part of his mind that tells him whats right and wrong and instead just does what he wants and doesnt like anyone that prevents him from getting having it his way.

and about mikey and raph attacking him, they really didnt. all they knew was he was unstable and going after april, so when they found him, they just stopped him, with mikey even standing in front of him askign what happened. They didnt attack him until he attacked them and tried to melt raph. so its natural that after that happens, raph and mikey dont treat him as their old human friend.

the only issue i really had with this episode was april. when she sees the guys fighting tim at the end she says its not her problem and ignores it. kinda a selfish thing to do, even if shes mad at them, because her dad getting abducted in the first season wasnt their problem yet they helped her. im not saying this was bad to put in, im just saying its making me start to not like april

[BabyTurtles]

Originally Posted by turtlefan1

you know i know this sound harsh but i losing patetince with april really she was claysat for the entire series had the guys not come to save her from the kranng in rise of the turtles the world would have been doomed and add the fact the first fight with the kraang is what revealed the turtles and splinter to shredder and the foot in the first place so april can say the turtles ruined her life but she also ruined theirs.

hmm didn't think of it like that...

but April lost her dad....and even though she's being irrational about it...it's kinda realistic...she just wants someone to blame and be angry at.....and the turtles were there admitting it was there fault...so yea..

she's being a little harsh...but wouldn't you if the person you cared about got mutated?

she'll come around, she just needs to blow off some major steam.



I kinda hope she forgives them soon cause if Mikey mutates April's cat when she's still kinda angry at them... then that's not gonna help one bit

[Refractive Reflections]

This was a decent episode. It was an episode where it at least advanced the already established characters (Timothy, Don, and April) rather than using, and focusing on a new mutant/villain.

I'm glad the series showed some depth in handling the ethical dilemma of trying to assess Timothy's conscious in being an atypical mutant (it hints at the difficult situation with some mental illness. It's the age old question where if someone is within the "gray area" of mental illness and commits a crime, how much is that person truly responsible for the crime versus blaming it on the illness solely?), and therefore debating if they should be merciless or merciful in their fighting. As for the show letting go of Timothy, we can't be that rash, I mean he could be a far more mentally challenged individual than say Leatherhead for example.
In addition, there was the dilemma in deciding whether Timothy should be preserved to be used as a guinea pig to help save April's father.

It's good that the show explored Donnie's identity in being a mutant through the whole Don/April/Casey love triangle dynamic. I like shipping if it expands the characters, which it did a bit here, rather than contracts them (as it was done with Donnie in Season 1). Yet it does make one wonder at the end of the episode (with Donnie's hope), I mean... seriously... how far can the series really push the whole Donnie/April relationship? Is there eventually going to even be a serious boyfriend-girlfriend relationship going on within a kids' show? Something to think about...

Casey Jones was so far... charming here. He was smug and playfully cocky when it came to teasing, which was nice rather than making him into an obnoxious, arrogant "big talker" that can be too easy to fall into. But we didn't see a whole lot of him, so I can't really determine his full character though. At least thank goodness he wasn't as dumb as a brick like 2K3, but I hope he doesn't as the series develops.

One big plot hole is that April seemed a bit too comfortable in getting back to her ordinary life considering that the Kraang were actively hunting her down. She seemed a bit too unconcerned about the Kraang finding out about her location, considering that a teacher in her school (which was a Kraang robot) found out about her through her saliva DNA. Unless she transferred to a new high school or something, but still... the concern toward her own life doesn't seem as intense as you think it would be, since aliens from another dimension are still actively trying to find her. (She knows that the Kraang are not completely defeated because she saw their spaceship in the Season 2 premiere.)

Originally Posted by Luigiperps

You guys want all characters to be perfect. April can be mad, and Tim can be selfish, we can see them grow and change, no one is perfect, and if they were, they wouldn't be interesting.

I agree with you Luigiperps, as for Nick April, some of you gotta let her character breathe. I mean a lot of people forget she's almost an orphan with her aunt taking care of her. Are we forgetting all that happened to her during Season 1? Losing her mother, having her father kidnapped by the Kraang, fighting with Karai, being actively hunted by the Kraang, kidnapped by Shredder and Karai as a bargaining chip to trade with Kraang, abducted into the Technodrome by Kraang Prime, and after all that, now her father, which she just got back is now a mutant and probably feeling partially guilty for it.
Is her anger toward the Turtles the wisest thing? Of course not, but honestly how many teenagers are mature enough, if they would have endured the same hardships, to not give out some form of misguided, emotional retaliation? ...Very few. If this show was some twisted R rated version of the Turtles, 70% most likely Nick April would have been drinking, partying, or getting high to dull the psychological pain.

It's funny how some of the people who preferred more teenage-behaving characters for Nick TMNT, are getting upset over April behaving like a teenager (being upset with the Turtles).

[JH24]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

the only issue i really had with this episode was april. when she sees the guys fighting tim at the end she says its not her problem and ignores it. kinda a selfish thing to do, even if shes mad at them, because her dad getting abducted in the first season wasnt their problem yet they helped her. im not saying this was bad to put in, im just saying its making me start to not like april

I actually liked they showed this part. It gives us a glimpse into April's mind. I don't think she's as much mad at the guys anymore, but has somehow convinced herself that she can still get the normal life back she had before meeting the turtles.

She thinks that by distancing herself from the guys everything will become normal again. There were some hints in season 1 that April valued her normal life, and after everything she's been through so far (With the Kraang abduction and her dad mutating likely being the final straw) she just wants to let it all go, which is certainly understandable in her situation.


It's likely April has to find out for herself that no matter how much she wants it, things just can't go back to the way they where. If she realizes this and finds herself in a situation she knows there's no other way out off, then she'll accept her "new" life and possibly realize that she shouldn't have turned her back on the best friends she could have wished for.

The turtles will always be there for her, whether April wants it or not.

===

As for Timothy/Mutagen Man. It's hard to tell how much he's in control, if any control at all. I'm not sure if he even remembers his former identity, if he even cares he's a mutant now, and he definitely has no idea of right or wrong at all.

Timothy has completely changed, at this point I don't think he can be blamed anymore for what he's doing. He's no human anymore, has no human way of thinking, and in that way can't be judged from a human perspective of thoughts. The threat he poses is very real though and needs to be dealt with.


I did like how Mikey and Raph only stopped him at first and didn't attack. Before watching the episode I was worried they would lunge at him on first sight.


It's possible one day Donatello might be able to get through to him. Mutagen Man could still become a possible ally one day. It would be a bit soon if Mutagen Man's role would end with this episode.

[Electric]

I agree. I liked how they included that, since it adds a layer of depth to April, I was just trying to say that I thought it was a jerk move on her part and that I think she has a false perception of certain things. Again though it lets us see her idea of her life though.

I'm sure Timothy will be back, and I don't think him as a good guy is completely out of the question. In this episode he just tried to become Aprils friend, and since the turtles stopped him, he fought them. But at the end when he's starting to freeze, he actually calls out to Donnie, so I don't think he absolutely hates the turtles, I just think he has lost his sense of right and wrong .

[DONATELLO DUZMACHINES]

Originally Posted by saber16

Honestly, I was rooting for Mutagen Man to become a hero in some way (love the design, and I'm cool with underdog stories), and even as it stands I don't want to see him destroyed - but if it happens, it's out of the Turtles control.

The guy can hurl cars, tear down buildings, throw acid out of his hands and has zero understanding of right and wrong.
I see the comments saying "He was justified for attacking Raph and Mikey, and he didn't know any better."

He was going to KILL them -
REALLY, people gave Splinter crap for making them hand over their weapons - despite how easily they were able to adapt to that handicap.

But Timothy turns himself into Mutagen Man of his own free will, nearly shoves acid in Raphael's face, and vows to kill the turtles despite saving his life time and time again, when he was a human and even as an insane blob of guts. He even turned on Donnie, the closest thing he had to a friend who's been taking care of him and looking for a cure.

Mutagen Man get's a free pass because "It's not his fault, the mutagen made him do it." Or, "He never wanted to become this thing."
Well, to bad. He IS that thing now, and all he's doing is endangering lives. Had he become a "Cool" mutant and still ended up becoming a villain, would it still be the mutagen's fault?
Hell, if we're going to blame the mutagen, we should blame Donnie to for not trying hard enough to stop him from bathing in the unpredictable alien goo.

You can say, "But Timothy didn't know! He see's the Turtles, a dog man and fish thing- forget Donnie's warnings, it's 100% safe!"

Wouldn't that be like a kid chastising a long time smoker for telling them not to even try it. "Well, they seem fine! I'll be fine too!" Only to get throat cancer down the road. They made the choice, but they never wanted that to happen to them.
Their conclusion: it's products fault, not theirs


My conclusion: Buyer beware.



What about the complaints about April, "They saved her life multiple times! She can't be mean at them just because they played a hand in her father getting mutated! So ungrateful."

Meanwhile, "The turtles saved Timothy's life multiple times, but he can't help it that he wants to kill them for no reason other than to keep April to himself. It's the mutagen! They need to be nicer to him!"

Hell, he was going to kill Casey for no other reason than being with April.
Would he have done the same to her father if he was with her (mutated or not), other friends in school?

The turtles already have the foot and Kraang to worry about - not to mention any accidental results that come from the missing mutagen. The last thing they need on their plate is a walking emotional time bomb to endanger the city.

I know this post has been quoted several times, but I agree with this so much. I dont don't sympathize with Mutagen Man at all. Also did anybody see if there were any easter eggs in Mikeys box of tapes that he found?

[JH24]

Originally Posted by ElectricN

I agree. I liked how they included that, since it adds a layer of depth to April, I was just trying to say that I thought it was a jerk move on her part and that I think she has a false perception of certain things. Again though it lets us see her idea of her life though.

I'm sure Timothy will be back, and I don't think him as a good guy is completely out of the question. In this episode he just tried to become Aprils friend, and since the turtles stopped him, he fought them. But at the end when he's starting to freeze, he actually calls out to Donnie, so I don't think he absolutely hates the turtles, I just think he has lost his sense of right and wrong .

I understand what you mean. And yeah, after everything they've been through together I agree it is a jerk move to turn her back on them like that. In particular regarding Donatello, as she had to know how he feels about her.

I understand where April is coming from, but to cut off a friendship like that is harsh. I do like how the writers are taking the time with this "break-up" and how they are developing this plotline so far, especially by adding Casey into the mix.

===


You're right, I feel the same way. It would be odd if Mutagen Man only appeared once, and they can't make him an enemy everytime he appears again. I'm hoping they still have some nice development for Timothy/Mutagen Man in store later on.

[the fixer]

When Mutagen Man squirted that acid around and it hit that stray cat, it made me think of Old Hob...
Probably imagining things...

[ObiWanFan4life]

I'm curious how This pans out. Will April come to her senses and realize she's being bitchy and irrational? Or will somebody snap her out of it? Just wondering.

[DarkLightDragon]

Probably around the time Casey meets the turtles. She'll realize that having a normal life will get boring for a while and start missing the guys and come to regret what she said to them. After all, people tend to say things they didn't really mean when angry and this certainly seems to be the case here.

And no, I don't say this because I want her "perfect" or some other s***** way to demonize why people currently don't like her, but to see get out of what is the most overused usage of teen angst all because they just had to make something happen to her dad in some way...again.

*a-hem* semi-rant aside, regarding Mutagen Man and his predicament. While the circumstances and motive for his mutation doesn't muster much sympathy for the character I can understand, I think it's plausibly to be simply because of Donnie. Since Don has pretty much become the most favored Turtle in this iteration and how he was the closest to a friend Timothy had as well as being the only Turtle who managed to tolerate him. Basically, you sympathize more with Don's goal to help more than just to see Timothy return to normal.

[blue_angel99]

Another good episode...

Got reminded of my first love...Voltron.

Fave Quote:
Casey: I'm either going to be a pro hockey player or a bounty hunter.(I could see him getting a reality show on AE)

The only unsettling thing is how April walked away from the turtles as they were saving her and Casey from Tim. I was hoping she'd at least watch quietly to make sure they were ok. Harsh.

[lango7]

This season is great. I like how emotional they have made Don. He is a wreck and hopefully will snap out of it. This show does a good job balancing the tone for both a child and adult audience. And the Voltron riff was great. Clearly the writers are fellow children of the 80's.

[DVD]

I watched this yesterday. I liked it.
I even liked the Mutagen Man ( point to note. My spellchecker did not correct or underline the name )
Anyways, yes. Great episode, with lots going on, and of course the introduction of you know who.
The new toon they are watching is a nice touch, and watching it on VHS is cool. The slap on the face at the beginning was telling.

Overall, a solid episode.

[Whatswiththeheadbands?]

Originally Posted by blue_angel99

The only unsettling thing is how April walked away from the turtles as they were saving her and Casey from Tim. I was hoping she'd at least watch quietly to make sure they were ok. Harsh.

Well, she does hate them for what they did to her dad, so it's sort of understandable.

Anyway, great episode. This series just gets better and better.

[Airconny]

A good episode overall, in my opinion. The Voltron-like show at the beginning was a nice start-off, and the animation for it was surprisingly a nice touch for it.

Mutagen Man's motive for going after April was a little perplexing, but that probably stems from the fact that almost all train of thought from his is virtually gone ever since his mutation. I do hope he does come into play later in the series, though. I don't want him to be a ''lost'' character within the series that is never mentioned again, since it'll be disappointing on how a character how could have a lot of potential be written out so fast.

Casey Jones, I was a little disappointed with how little he actually appeared, but I must admit, he looked totally awesome. The bike scene also got me tensed it, I just enjoyed how fast-paced it became. The animation also was good for that scene, and really employed how good CG could be at times. I do hope to see more of him, however, since this was a nice start for him, honestly.

Overall, a good episode.

[Slime State Alumni]

It's not like Timothy was all that rational and intelligent pre-mutation...