TWO TOWERS!!!! *includes spoilers...kinda* - Page 2

Deepflame · 12-26-2002, 03:08 PM

Well, actually it is worth viewing again (myself, I'm going to see it again with my family tomorrow).
It's equal if not better than the first movie, just as the books.

What I would love to see is a movie of the Silmarillion... actually, It would need more than just one movie. Only those who had read it would understand it correctly, though (Silmarillion is bad-ass complicated).

*Eye of Sarnath* · 12-26-2002, 08:20 PM

Okay, I wouldn't mind seeing it again. As long as someone else payed for my ticket.

It is a good movie, but a lot of the things I liked/disliked about Fellowship were gone. I dunno, it felt different, like an entirely different person had directed it. I understand that sequels are going to be different than the movie they follow, but TTT isn't really a sequel, it's a direct continuation.

It also had a lot less action, more talky than Fellowship. And the problem with this is, I wasn't very often interested in what the characters had to say.

Less Christopher Lee! Poor guy, probably has had more lines and screentime in one Star Wars film than two, three-hour movies. I thought his character would be expanded upon in this movie. And the parts between Arwen and Aragorn felt like they were added as an afterthought. Characters who were important in the first seemed to have been forgotten (like the two examples I gave). Of course, maybe that's not Peter Jackson's fault, just that way in the books. Never actually read the books, so I don't know.

Also, am I the only one who could care less about the characters played by actors, but was more interested in CGI characters like Gollum and the Ents?

I guess I'll just have to be content with the Special Edition of Fellowship until the series can (hopefully) redeem itself with Return of the King in 2003.

**Nturtle** · 12-27-2002, 06:35 AM

I thought it had a ton more action then the Fellowship, with Helm's Deep and all.
I was dissapointed by the lack of Saruman and the part when Gandalf and company go chase him out was missing.
The Ents were good I felt and Gollum was perfect!!

Deepflame · 12-27-2002, 09:30 AM

They coudn't take the whole book in this one film. The return of the King is somewhat shorter than the Fellowship and the Two Towers. They will probably take those scenes in the next movie, to even the lenght of them. Its the best solution, I'd say.

**HorseTechie** · 12-27-2002, 11:09 AM

Hrmm.. yeah, I thought TTT had way more battle action than LotR. I think the TTT action was in the dark and very fast, it was harder to follow in places. TTT just had squarms of orcs/combatants everywhere... chaos. O course, in that cause, one does get confused when watching chaos.

I did like the CGI characters too, especially since they hardly looked like a computer graphic. I guess since PJ wanted to showcase them more, the other cool scenes were cut out. I do image there would be much more to see in teh TTT extended DVD though.

I do have to agree the Arwen affair was iffy. It didn't make much sense at first, so I was confused as to what the conflict was. I guess if she stayed in Rivendell, waiting, it would not beneift her relationship with Aragrn. Hrmm... that could have definately been explained better. I'm not much of a Liv Tyler fan anyway.

*Eye of Sarnath* · 12-27-2002, 12:10 PM

Prehaps I feel that way because the action was more spread out in Fellowship, but a lot of the action in TTT happened later on in the movie. But that said, I did enjoy movie, and will probably buy it the Special Edition. It isn't a bad movie, just not as good as FOTR. Of course, if I saw it again, I'd be able to judge it better, these were just my thoughts after seeing it for the first time.

I loved the Ents.

~~Tokka-B~~ · 12-27-2002, 01:06 PM

Wow, I just saw the movie yesterday and it was amazing. I am not going to say which one was better;TTT or FOTR, simply because you can't. They are all part of the trilogy and you can't have one without the other. Wow, Smiegal had a huge role in this one, I was glad! The special effects were amazing and Ian McClellan does a fascinating role again! I have a question though. I have never read the book, but is Gandalf the White any different than Gandalf the Grey? Is one stronger or what? I was a little confused...

Deepflame · 12-27-2002, 01:56 PM

<starts to squabble about the Silmarillion and shows off with his knowledge in this topic>

Gandalf were part of the Istari, they consisted of 5 maiar (sub-spirits to the valar, the 'gods' - Sauron is a maia).
White was the greatest rank, then came grey. Earlier, Saruman (also known as Curufin) was the white wizard. When he turned to darker forces (in the book he isnt in any alliance with Sauron, he wants it all for himself) he seased being 'the white' and became 'the multicoloured' or something.
So, when Gandalf were slain by the Balrog he was sent back to middle-earth by Manwë, lord of the Valar and Valinor (the happy place to the west).
When Gandalf came back, he overtook the highest rank, thus becoming the second mightyest being in Middle-Earth. He says this himself in the book; "Except for the Dark Lord himself, I am the most powerfull being in Middle-Earth". Sauron would whopp his @ss x3 if they meet, though. Even if Sauron didnt have the ring and Gandalf uses his full power (the Istari arent allowed to use their full power, as the task to achieve victory shall be accomplished by the inhabitans of Middle-Earth themselves).

So, to be short; He's hell a lot more powerfull than before.

Also, I suggest you read the book as soon as possible. If you feel to, you might read the Silmarillion too. Since... when I say Morgoth you dont know who I'm talking about, no? (BIG TIP: He is the first Dark Lord)

Answer to all your questions, ehh?

~~Tokka-B~~ · 12-27-2002, 03:05 PM

Wow, looks like you know what you are talking about!!!

Thanks, cause I was just wondering. The good thing is, if I have anymore questions about LOTR I know who to ask!

Now just counting down the days til ROFK.........

Deepflame · 12-27-2002, 03:17 PM

**Nturtle** · 12-27-2002, 04:48 PM

The Arwen part was preety unnessicary, that was from one of the appendixes I belive, right? Well I've only read the LOTR books, I didn't have it in me to go through other Tokienness

Deepflame · 12-27-2002, 05:34 PM

The Arwen - Aragorn part wasn't unnessicary, me thinks. It didnt get the time it needed though, ended up in some confused soup of bla~ bla~.

Did you find the Appendix interesting? Then I suggest you read the Sil, Morgoth is simply so much more evil than Sauron

**HorseTechie** · 12-27-2002, 05:50 PM

heh.. I'm what you could call a LotR newbie when it comes to the books. But that's cause I have gotten soooo busy, reading anything lengthy for fun is impossible. It's been over 2 years since I got the LotR trigology hardback, and i'm only halfway through it.

Simarillion sounds interesting though... whenever I get to it!

*wishes someone could lock her in a room void of TV, computers, pencils and paper, so she can read all the books through, and over again*

**Nturtle** · 12-27-2002, 08:12 PM

truthfully I didn't find the Appendixes too intresting

Although liked a lot about the Hobbits

The family trees and such.

Elrénia of Lorién · 12-27-2002, 08:13 PM

I highly reccomend the Extended edition of FOTR its great. Its awesome mostly 'cause the new scenes and the extended scenes are all incorporated into the movie; therefore making it a lot longer; for example, 1 hour into the extended version, I think Aragorn had just met up with Frodo and Co, so they had ta have another disk. Then there are the two other disks that have stuff from the "appendices", which is interviews; behinds the scenes and such. Its sweet. Funny too. Billy and Dom are hilarious. ^.^

*Kameko* · 12-27-2002, 10:00 PM

Maybe I'm just that pathetic, but I think part of the reason (a big part

) I can't wait to see TT is so I can see more of Legolas. What can I say? Orlando Bloom is gorgeous!

Don't get me wrong, I love the story line, and the effects are awesome. I'm hoping to buy the video of the with some of my Christmas money.

Deepflame · 12-28-2002, 05:27 AM

Errh... Saruman's other name is Curunír, not Curufin. Curufin is one of Fëanor's sons (Fëanor is a very important character in the Silmarillion).

My mistake

xZAOx · 12-28-2002, 12:33 PM

im a few chapters into return of the king at the moment. back in high school i started reading the trilogy, but got toob usy and stopped somewhere in the two towers.

personally, changes piss me off. i think they should have just DITCHED the arwen mess, and tried to put tom bombadil in there! my favorite part is by far the ents. those guys are bad ass! im gonna have to get me some clay or something and make me one to stand on my desk

i thought it was an awesome movie though. but i hated how they made faramir take the hobbits to gondor...what was that about?! maybe to stretch out the time before they got to shelob? lol.

as for the person talking about the action, hehe, read the book! all the 'action' in the first movie, is really nothing more than quick skirmishes at most in the book. like the thing in the lake before the mines of moria, in the book it grabs frodo's leg, then i think sam tries to cut it or something, then they all run inside. that was about it. and at weathertop, when frodo gets stabbed, the wraith runs up to frodo, stabs him, and then runs off. there was no huge battle or nothing.

i like the added action though, b/c it doesnt take away from the overall story at all. it'd actually be kinda boring to watch them walk for 2 weeks from weathertop to rivendell, lol.

but yeah, i say they shoulda ditched the arwen business, added tom bombadil, and made faramir the nice guy he is. then i'd have been happier =)

Deepflame · 12-28-2002, 04:28 PM

PJ added elemants such as the Arwen part make sure that a person who havent read the books would understand whats happening.
If we would follow the book completely, you woudn't hear anything about Arwen and Aragorn's love in the second movie. For one that have read the book, they would know about these difficulties that Arwen face (its in the appendixes).

The movie has to be adapted to those who haven't read the books.

Faramir and Theoden was the two great dissapointments of the movie. Completely different from the book characters. Though Faramir will probably become the Faramir I know from the books in the next movie, I fear that Theoden is lost. The movie portrays him as a coward, he is not.

**Nturtle** · 12-28-2002, 04:53 PM

Yeah how Faramir draged them all the way to Gondor was annoying. It went by too fast and didn't hold to the books.
Theoden didnt come off as a coward one bit!! He went out with Aragon and beat the begeezus out of those Orcs on the bridge of Helm's deep!!!He had to stay back because he was King and his loss would throw everything into complete disaray.
I was supprsed a lot how it just jumps straight back into the Middle Earth World, no transition or anything. Although I found that a little iffy at first, I was able to grab back on.

12-26-2002, 03:08 PM	#21
Deepflame Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep below the mountains... Posts: 254	Well, actually it is worth viewing again (myself, I'm going to see it again with my family tomorrow). It's equal if not better than the first movie, just as the books. What I would love to see is a movie of the Silmarillion... actually, It would need more than just one movie. Only those who had read it would understand it correctly, though (Silmarillion is bad-ass complicated). __________________ NoOo! The killer scarfs attack!

12-26-2002, 08:20 PM	#22
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	Okay, I wouldn't mind seeing it again. As long as someone else payed for my ticket. It is a good movie, but a lot of the things I liked/disliked about Fellowship were gone. I dunno, it felt different, like an entirely different person had directed it. I understand that sequels are going to be different than the movie they follow, but TTT isn't really a sequel, it's a direct continuation. It also had a lot less action, more talky than Fellowship. And the problem with this is, I wasn't very often interested in what the characters had to say. Less Christopher Lee! Poor guy, probably has had more lines and screentime in one Star Wars film than two, three-hour movies. I thought his character would be expanded upon in this movie. And the parts between Arwen and Aragorn felt like they were added as an afterthought. Characters who were important in the first seemed to have been forgotten (like the two examples I gave). Of course, maybe that's not Peter Jackson's fault, just that way in the books. Never actually read the books, so I don't know. Also, am I the only one who could care less about the characters played by actors, but was more interested in CGI characters like Gollum and the Ents? I guess I'll just have to be content with the Special Edition of Fellowship until the series can (hopefully) redeem itself with Return of the King in 2003. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

12-27-2002, 06:35 AM	#23
Nturtle Ninja Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Technodrome Airducts Posts: 5,215	I thought it had a ton more action then the Fellowship, with Helm's Deep and all. I was dissapointed by the lack of Saruman and the part when Gandalf and company go chase him out was missing. The Ents were good I felt and Gollum was perfect!! __________________ Fil rules. If Fil takes your 5 bucks then you should be eternally grateful that Fil would even borrow your money. Fil.

12-27-2002, 09:30 AM	#24
Deepflame Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep below the mountains... Posts: 254	They coudn't take the whole book in this one film. The return of the King is somewhat shorter than the Fellowship and the Two Towers. They will probably take those scenes in the next movie, to even the lenght of them. Its the best solution, I'd say. __________________ NoOo! The killer scarfs attack!

12-27-2002, 12:10 PM	#26
Eye of Sarnath Mad Scientist Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: NY Posts: 1,590	Prehaps I feel that way because the action was more spread out in Fellowship, but a lot of the action in TTT happened later on in the movie. But that said, I did enjoy movie, and will probably buy it the Special Edition. It isn't a bad movie, just not as good as FOTR. Of course, if I saw it again, I'd be able to judge it better, these were just my thoughts after seeing it for the first time. I loved the Ents. __________________ "When I was real small I heard about this thing called the decline of civilization... and I decided that it was something I would like to become involved in." -George Carlin

12-27-2002, 11:09 AM	#25
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	Hrmm.. yeah, I thought TTT had way more battle action than LotR. I think the TTT action was in the dark and very fast, it was harder to follow in places. TTT just had squarms of orcs/combatants everywhere... chaos. O course, in that cause, one does get confused when watching chaos. I did like the CGI characters too, especially since they hardly looked like a computer graphic. I guess since PJ wanted to showcase them more, the other cool scenes were cut out. I do image there would be much more to see in teh TTT extended DVD though. I do have to agree the Arwen affair was iffy. It didn't make much sense at first, so I was confused as to what the conflict was. I guess if she stayed in Rivendell, waiting, it would not beneift her relationship with Aragrn. Hrmm... that could have definately been explained better. I'm not much of a Liv Tyler fan anyway.

12-27-2002, 01:06 PM	#27
~~Tokka-B~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lost Sewer Posts: 1,829	Wow, I just saw the movie yesterday and it was amazing. I am not going to say which one was better;TTT or FOTR, simply because you can't. They are all part of the trilogy and you can't have one without the other. Wow, Smiegal had a huge role in this one, I was glad! The special effects were amazing and Ian McClellan does a fascinating role again! I have a question though. I have never read the book, but is Gandalf the White any different than Gandalf the Grey? Is one stronger or what? I was a little confused...

12-27-2002, 01:56 PM	#28
Deepflame Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep below the mountains... Posts: 254	<starts to squabble about the Silmarillion and shows off with his knowledge in this topic> Gandalf were part of the Istari, they consisted of 5 maiar (sub-spirits to the valar, the 'gods' - Sauron is a maia). White was the greatest rank, then came grey. Earlier, Saruman (also known as Curufin) was the white wizard. When he turned to darker forces (in the book he isnt in any alliance with Sauron, he wants it all for himself) he seased being 'the white' and became 'the multicoloured' or something. So, when Gandalf were slain by the Balrog he was sent back to middle-earth by Manwë, lord of the Valar and Valinor (the happy place to the west). When Gandalf came back, he overtook the highest rank, thus becoming the second mightyest being in Middle-Earth. He says this himself in the book; "Except for the Dark Lord himself, I am the most powerfull being in Middle-Earth". Sauron would whopp his @ss x3 if they meet, though. Even if Sauron didnt have the ring and Gandalf uses his full power (the Istari arent allowed to use their full power, as the task to achieve victory shall be accomplished by the inhabitans of Middle-Earth themselves). So, to be short; He's hell a lot more powerfull than before. Also, I suggest you read the book as soon as possible. If you feel to, you might read the Silmarillion too. Since... when I say Morgoth you dont know who I'm talking about, no? (BIG TIP: He is the first Dark Lord) Answer to all your questions, ehh? __________________ NoOo! The killer scarfs attack!

12-27-2002, 03:05 PM	#29
~~Tokka-B~~ Banned Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Lost Sewer Posts: 1,829	Wow, looks like you know what you are talking about!!! Thanks, cause I was just wondering. The good thing is, if I have anymore questions about LOTR I know who to ask! Now just counting down the days til ROFK.........

12-27-2002, 03:17 PM	#30
Deepflame Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep below the mountains... Posts: 254	__________________ NoOo! The killer scarfs attack!

12-27-2002, 04:48 PM	#31
Nturtle Ninja Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Technodrome Airducts Posts: 5,215	The Arwen part was preety unnessicary, that was from one of the appendixes I belive, right? Well I've only read the LOTR books, I didn't have it in me to go through other Tokienness __________________ Fil rules. If Fil takes your 5 bucks then you should be eternally grateful that Fil would even borrow your money. Fil.

12-27-2002, 05:34 PM	#32
Deepflame Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep below the mountains... Posts: 254	The Arwen - Aragorn part wasn't unnessicary, me thinks. It didnt get the time it needed though, ended up in some confused soup of bla~ bla~. Did you find the Appendix interesting? Then I suggest you read the Sil, Morgoth is simply so much more evil than Sauron __________________ NoOo! The killer scarfs attack!

12-27-2002, 05:50 PM	#33
HorseTechie Inactive Moderator Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Midwest Posts: 5,677	heh.. I'm what you could call a LotR newbie when it comes to the books. But that's cause I have gotten soooo busy, reading anything lengthy for fun is impossible. It's been over 2 years since I got the LotR trigology hardback, and i'm only halfway through it. Simarillion sounds interesting though... whenever I get to it! wishes someone could lock her in a room void of TV, computers, pencils and paper, so she can read all the books through, and over again

12-27-2002, 08:12 PM	#34
Nturtle Ninja Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Technodrome Airducts Posts: 5,215	truthfully I didn't find the Appendixes too intresting Although liked a lot about the Hobbits The family trees and such. __________________ Fil rules. If Fil takes your 5 bucks then you should be eternally grateful that Fil would even borrow your money. Fil.

12-27-2002, 08:13 PM	#35
Elrénia of Lorién Random Punk Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Virginia Posts: 15	I highly reccomend the Extended edition of FOTR its great. Its awesome mostly 'cause the new scenes and the extended scenes are all incorporated into the movie; therefore making it a lot longer; for example, 1 hour into the extended version, I think Aragorn had just met up with Frodo and Co, so they had ta have another disk. Then there are the two other disks that have stuff from the "appendices", which is interviews; behinds the scenes and such. Its sweet. Funny too. Billy and Dom are hilarious. ^.^ __________________ "I amar prestar aen, han mathon ne nen, han mathon ne chae a han noston ned 'wilith."

12-27-2002, 10:00 PM	#36
Kameko Sister to the TMNT Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Los Angeles, California, USA Posts: 2,756	Maybe I'm just that pathetic, but I think part of the reason (a big part ) I can't wait to see TT is so I can see more of Legolas. What can I say? Orlando Bloom is gorgeous! Don't get me wrong, I love the story line, and the effects are awesome. I'm hoping to buy the video of the with some of my Christmas money.

12-28-2002, 05:27 AM	#37
Deepflame Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep below the mountains... Posts: 254	Errh... Saruman's other name is Curunír, not Curufin. Curufin is one of Fëanor's sons (Fëanor is a very important character in the Silmarillion). My mistake __________________ NoOo! The killer scarfs attack!

12-28-2002, 12:33 PM	#38
xZAOx Stone Warrior Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: TN Posts: 842	im a few chapters into return of the king at the moment. back in high school i started reading the trilogy, but got toob usy and stopped somewhere in the two towers. personally, changes piss me off. i think they should have just DITCHED the arwen mess, and tried to put tom bombadil in there! my favorite part is by far the ents. those guys are bad ass! im gonna have to get me some clay or something and make me one to stand on my desk i thought it was an awesome movie though. but i hated how they made faramir take the hobbits to gondor...what was that about?! maybe to stretch out the time before they got to shelob? lol. as for the person talking about the action, hehe, read the book! all the 'action' in the first movie, is really nothing more than quick skirmishes at most in the book. like the thing in the lake before the mines of moria, in the book it grabs frodo's leg, then i think sam tries to cut it or something, then they all run inside. that was about it. and at weathertop, when frodo gets stabbed, the wraith runs up to frodo, stabs him, and then runs off. there was no huge battle or nothing. i like the added action though, b/c it doesnt take away from the overall story at all. it'd actually be kinda boring to watch them walk for 2 weeks from weathertop to rivendell, lol. but yeah, i say they shoulda ditched the arwen business, added tom bombadil, and made faramir the nice guy he is. then i'd have been happier =)

12-28-2002, 04:28 PM	#39
Deepflame Hench Mutant Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Deep below the mountains... Posts: 254	PJ added elemants such as the Arwen part make sure that a person who havent read the books would understand whats happening. If we would follow the book completely, you woudn't hear anything about Arwen and Aragorn's love in the second movie. For one that have read the book, they would know about these difficulties that Arwen face (its in the appendixes). The movie has to be adapted to those who haven't read the books. Faramir and Theoden was the two great dissapointments of the movie. Completely different from the book characters. Though Faramir will probably become the Faramir I know from the books in the next movie, I fear that Theoden is lost. The movie portrays him as a coward, he is not. __________________ NoOo! The killer scarfs attack!

12-28-2002, 04:53 PM	#40
Nturtle Ninja Master Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Technodrome Airducts Posts: 5,215	Yeah how Faramir draged them all the way to Gondor was annoying. It went by too fast and didn't hold to the books. Theoden didnt come off as a coward one bit!! He went out with Aragon and beat the begeezus out of those Orcs on the bridge of Helm's deep!!!He had to stay back because he was King and his loss would throw everything into complete disaray. I was supprsed a lot how it just jumps straight back into the Middle Earth World, no transition or anything. Although I found that a little iffy at first, I was able to grab back on. __________________ Fil rules. If Fil takes your 5 bucks then you should be eternally grateful that Fil would even borrow your money. Fil.