The New Movie And Marketing

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

In one of the letters pages of Volume 4, Peter Laird said the book never made a profit, but he continues to do it since its important to him. Dan Berger also said in an e-mail that Tales might also go on a "hiatus" of sorts after 2007 because apparently that book doesn't make much of a profit either. And I can see why they'd be losing more on a monthly book than Volume 4 which was bi-monthly.

Thing is, whether you like Volume 4 or not (and no, let's not have that discussion here), it is not a series that a (non-hardcore fan) person can find, browse through, and decide to buy/check out. Can anyone honestly say they're surprised Volume 4 didn't sell well? Why not make a product with the effort to at least give it a chance to sell well?

Technically I think ANOTHER "relaunch" of the comic is a bad move. Both Volume 4 and Tales showcase the Turtles as proper relaunches, but neither has sold all that well.

I wasn't really thinking relaunch exactly, just a TMNT title that can show up in comic stores each month, actually LOOK like all the other comic books around it, and can quietly exist while TMNT interest waxes and wanes in the eyes of the general public. Then when another movie or other high-profile project comes around, people can actually go into a comic shop and find an interesting TMNT comic book that they jump into the middle of without being confused.

[Buslady]

That is one of the biggest problems, TMNT is NOT readily available to the masses. It's so not a vehicle for seeling figs...the fig line isn't even that big! You got what? The turtles, sensei and human pals then antagonists and a couple playsets. And those silly rolly figs.
Comparing to the original movie's run and how many figs were out then, this is MINOR!

If they really wanted to make it work, those books they put out would have been displayed WITH the toyline not tucked away in the kiddie section hidden amongst other coloring books like I've seen. You have to place the product in the consumer's face, that is why it didn't work product wise. I saw the bedding stuff in a 4 sided display for what, a few days at walfart...it's gone now and the stuff's tucked away in the aisle.
If it were me, I would have displayed every piece of TMNT in my store(if I had one). Books, including comic reprints, bedding, figures, posters..hell I haven't seen ANY posters for sale in stores, anything I could get my hands on, I'd display it all together. That helps TMNT to work.

Now..look at all the Spiderman crap. It's OUT in the AISLES in HUGE quantities!!!!!!!! WTF!? Spiderman's getting craploads of attention, and the turtles got jacked bigtime.
Marketing sucks.

[Ramboraph4life aka Matt]

Maybe a relaunch, re-release of Kevin Eastman's book "TMNT Artobiography" could have been in order as well. Although I love the touch in the inner sleeve that has TMNT 4 ideas/sketches for a 5th turtle named Kirby (this was way before the idea of a CGI film).

But maybe somehow a re-release of the damn DVDs would have been in order....although they were New Line Cinema so that wouldn't happen. But at least people may shop in the store and go....'oh hey, i remember these guys.'

As to whether a sequel may get made or not....there are at least 5 Children of the Corn sequels and a Leprechaun in the Hood part 2 Plus Final Destination made about the same money ($50 million), with about the same budget, and now there's 3 of them. So I think it's all good.

[Roseangelo]

Well, toy/product marketing is different from what I was thinking (just the opposite, really). I actually thought the toy marketing was decent, as the action figures were all at the front of the toy aisles of the major retailers and apparently have been selling very well.

Comparing to Spider-man isn't a really fair comparision as it is without doubt a muchmuch bigger franchise. That's a movie that's likely to make $100 million over opening weekend - a lot more companies are going to be willing to make a lot more product with a lot more visibility.

At least Kevin's artobiography is available on Amazon.com.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Well, toy/product marketing is different from what I was thinking (just the opposite, really). I actually thought the toy marketing was decent, as the action figures were all at the front of the toy aisles of the major retailers and apparently have been selling very well.

Comparing to Spider-man isn't a really fair comparision as it is without doubt a muchmuch bigger franchise. That's a movie that's likely to make $100 million over opening weekend - a lot more companies are going to be willing to make a lot more product with a lot more visibility.

At least Kevin's artobiography is available on Amazon.com.

Yeah the toys where about the only thing that really helped market this movie if you ask me. Allot of stores even sold out before the movie came out.
And I'd like to make a comment about whats being said about a new on going color comic series of the tmnt...yeah I think it's needed would I buy it hell yes I would. But I'm a turtle nut I've got just about every turtle comic and don't plan to stop lol.
But I think it should sort of be like how Archie was taking 2k3 and making it into something even greater. But sadly it's really doubtfull that it would ever happen.
And I agree with whomever said Mirage is to underground for it's own good.
Peter also should really stand up for himself and his characters allot more when it comes to these big shot companies if he did I'm sure we'd have allot better things coming out.
I could just flip out probably about 100 great marketing ideas of the top of my head for comics, toys, direct to dvd toons etc. but hey it doesn't matter because I don't work for playmates or mirage as much as I'd love to.

[ToTheNines]

WTF? why name a turtle kirby.. that's worse than Venus. (which atleast makes some sense)

[Revan]

^ Did Splinter name Venus and then send her away? Can't remember

[ToTheNines]

Nah, I think she broke the Venus de Milo statue in the park during a "fight" and when they got home they decided to call her that, not a bad name considering its at least renaisance related. I think he real name was Mei Pi Chi.

[jenna]

Roseangelo, I couldn't agree with you more. Whilst I have been a lover of TMNT these past 20 years (oh Lordie has it really been that long... I'm sad), I had never read the comics. My interest in the TMNT comics is just recent and being ill recently allowed me to read the entire contents of the comic section on ninjaturtles.com. I loved reading everything and was discovering a new side of TMNT which I have never known and found myself really wanting to read certain issues in full. Of course, as far as I can find these are completely unobtainable.

My point is, that there are many areas of the market for 'new' fans, even the ones who have been fans for 20 years already, based on the old toon / films. Whilst my colleagues at work love to tease me for having a Raphael toy on my desk, none of them (especially the ones in thier 20s who remember the old toon) can resist picking him up and saying it's cool and reminiscing about their childhood. My second point is that I beleive we all have the little repressed ninja turtle fan inside of us waiting to break free, and the rerelease of the collected books (which I really want) would be a great way for Mirage to capitalise on that.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

WTF? why name a turtle kirby.. that's worse than Venus. (which atleast makes some sense)

dude they named him kirby because of the fact that the reason kevin and peter both got into drawing in the first place is because of the legendary comic artist Jack Kirby.

[ToTheNines]

I figured that, but it would be so out of place among the turtles.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by ToTheNines

I figured that, but it would be so out of place among the turtles.

I agree and I can't help but think of the pink fluffball from the Nintendo games when the name Kirby is brought up.

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

I could just flip out probably about 100 great marketing ideas of the top of my head for comics, toys, direct to dvd toons etc. but hey it doesn't matter because I don't work for playmates or mirage as much as I'd love to.

Yeah, my brain works similarly, coming up with endless marketing ideas for all of my different interests. If only I could convince someone to pay me to come up with those ideas.

The uncertain future of these characters just... depresses me. I really wish Mirage or someone would tell us something.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Yeah, my brain works similarly, coming up with endless marketing ideas for all of my different interests. If only I could convince someone to pay me to come up with those ideas.

The uncertain future of these characters just... depresses me. I really wish Mirage or someone would tell us something.

Yeah it really is quite annoying I started out as more of a tmnt toy collector in my teens was a fan of the old toon and then the comics both archie and mirage.
I think they could make a killing of a couple differnt lines Do a classic mirage, classic cartoon, and maybe some other I really don't see what it would hurt I know Peter and the gang at mirage want people to forget about the characters and the way they acted in the old toon but I really don't see that going away any time soon so I'd say it's better to at least embrace it than to ignore it and act like it never existed.
So what exacly are the things you'd like to know?

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

So what exacly are the things you'd like to know?

Mostly what the hell is going on with the comic book(s) I guess. I don't have much hope for TV (although Space Usagi being confirmed for next season on FF is pretty cool). Does that really only leave us with a movie sequel to hope for? Which leaves my brain running over all the missed opportunities in my first post. If I knew there was a good reason why opportunites are being missed, I would feel better.

[VaughnMichael]

Originally Posted by Roseangelo

Mostly what the hell is going on with the comic book(s) I guess. I don't have much hope for TV (although Space Usagi being confirmed for next season on FF is pretty cool). Does that really only leave us with a movie sequel to hope for? Which leaves my brain running over all the missed opportunities in my first post. If I knew there was a good reason why opportunites are being missed, I would feel better.

Well No ones gonna really be able to answere that question besides peter himself and we don't really have any way to contact him now that vol. 4 is on hold. Which figures it was actully started to get me interested what with mike training the Triceratons and what not.
I really pray that Tales doesn't get put on hold or cancled as well from what I last remember Tales of the tmnt had been selling better than vol.4 was.
It's sad but this isn't the first time this is happening though there's been years of missed opportunities if you ask me.
And trust me you're not the only one who's brain is running all over the place on this matter when I first heard lawson say all this stuff in that interview I was a bit shocked but honestly can't say I'm all that suprised.

[jenna]

Was thinking about this whole issue last night. It seems to me that throughout the history of screen based TMNT, they have been getting it wrong when trying to appeal to the masses. I'm thinking about 1987, making what started as quite a gritty series (Season 1) into cheese; the film franchise which lost its dark side when the studios started calling the shots from film 2 onwards (and Oh! how that descended into a pile of sh*t with film3); and now how the glorious 2k3 series being adapted into Fast Forward... I am still reeling from this and can't even comment anymore about how let down I am by this...

As such, I would like to set a challenge to Mirage to oversee a commercial exercise that improves rather than destroys the TMNT legacy. I have to say (and I know I am biased but I really believe this) that one of the ways to do this is to narrow the audience. Rather than make it for kids and adults at the same time, make it for adults. Pandering to the requirements of the younger audience is in my opinion what has killed each incarnation of TMNT. If they brought it up to the adult audience, they wouldn't alienate those who are not loyal die-hard fans. They would be able to incorporate a level of reality into it, expand on the darkness, examine the depth of the characters, allow the run time of a film to pass 90 mins, throw in some violence for good measure. Kids today aren't interested - they have plenty of whacky characters in thier living rooms day in and out - and to them the turtles are just names on a long list. This robs the turtles of what has made them so special for so many years.

Now that the new film has been made it has opened up the prospect of CG. The characters really shone through CGI and it really works for the feel of it. I hope they can take it places.

[CyberCubed]

I don't think the future of TMNT is that uncertain. The comics will presumedly continue eventually since I doubt Peter Laird doesn't want to finish what he started. He did say in the letters section that while all loose ends may never be tied up, but that he does want to finish the plotlines he started, so I'm not worried about that.

I never expected the Tales series to last forever, I'm just extremely happy we got the 40ish issues of Tales we got. If Tales ends, we can admit it had a good run and tied up a lot of loose storylines from the comics over the years. Tales of the TMNT was certainly well done and if they need to cut their losses by limitng the amount of tales they do or stop for a while, then its not a big deal. We got plenty of good issues out of it so I can't say we didn't get treated well.

As for the cartoon, we know its still going on with the second season of FF and someone who saw Laird at a convention said that he wanted to wrap up FF and bring the boys back home. I would hope they continue where they left off but that's probably too far in the future (it'd be late 2008 ) to think about at the moment.

As for the toys, I would assume the second wave of movie toys will come out when the DVD is released and after that they'll release the second wave of Fast Forward figures (to fall in line with the new season) that they showed off over a year ago.

So yeah, that just leaves us wondering if there will be a movie sequal or not. Who knows, maybe its not all gloom and doom because it only made 50mil when they wanted 100mil. We'll see...

[Raph'N'Roll]

That thumbs down is there by mistake, I must have clicked it without realizing.

I've been thinking about the future of TMNT myself, the new movie was disappointing and bad reviews definitely put a lot of people off, as well as word of mouth.
When I went to see the movie for a second time, as the credits rolled, I could hear a guy behind me saying "that was s**t", so his friends probably wouldn't go near it after hearing his opinion.
To be honest I wouldn't go near it either, only for the fact that it was a Turtles movie, if the same story had been applied to new characters, it would be completely forgettable.

As for the comics, Tales has been kinda hit and miss, with silly characters like the Wild West Cowboys bringing the book back to an original toon level.
The prequel books were another disappointment, a missed opportunity if there ever was one.
The covers are both gorgeous and deceiving, with the inside artwork being a complete let down, no wonder they weren't marketed at a bigger level, people would be laughing at the amateur art.
I don't like the way Laird is re-inking the original books, the way VOL 1 was toned was superb, there was tones of detail and those Eastman and Laird issues had a real grittiness to them.

I too would like to see some new blood taking over the comic books, for them to be in colour and with a strong art and writing team.

Change is good, and is needed in my opinion.
If we do get a movie sequel I hope Kevin learns from his mistakes, or we get a new director/ script writer.

[Roseangelo]

Originally Posted by Putrescent

And trust me you're not the only one who's brain is running all over the place on this matter when I first heard lawson say all this stuff in that interview I was a bit shocked but honestly can't say I'm all that suprised.

The Lawson interview had a large hand in bringing forth all of these frustrations for me.

Originally Posted by jenna

As such, I would like to set a challenge to Mirage to oversee a commercial exercise that improves rather than destroys the TMNT legacy. I have to say (and I know I am biased but I really believe this) that one of the ways to do this is to narrow the audience. Rather than make it for kids and adults at the same time, make it for adults. Pandering to the requirements of the younger audience is in my opinion what has killed each incarnation of TMNT. If they brought it up to the adult audience, they wouldn't alienate those who are not loyal die-hard fans. They would be able to incorporate a level of reality into it, expand on the darkness, examine the depth of the characters, allow the run time of a film to pass 90 mins, throw in some violence for good measure.

I agree and disagree with you. I do think Mirage has to figure out who they're marketing to, because marketing to both isn't working. At the same time, I do really have strong feelings against making the franchise FOR adults. But I say that only because adding more violence and swear words for the sake of each is not what the TMNT is about and I think both of those things could easily go overboard if they suddenly started making everything FOR adults. BUT, go ahead and write stories that put them against greater odds, that have bigger consequences, where people do bleed when they get hurt, and occasionally there are reasons to let out a good swear word.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I don't think the future of TMNT is that uncertain. The comics will presumedly continue eventually since I doubt Peter Laird doesn't want to finish what he started. He did say in the letters section that while all loose ends may never be tied up, but that he does want to finish the plotlines he started, so I'm not worried about that.

While Peter may have said these things, I'd feel a lot more confident if he would give current indication that this is still the case.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

I never expected the Tales series to last forever, I'm just extremely happy we got the 40ish issues of Tales we got. If Tales ends, we can admit it had a good run and tied up a lot of loose storylines from the comics over the years. Tales of the TMNT was certainly well done and if they need to cut their losses by limitng the amount of tales they do or stop for a while, then its not a big deal. We got plenty of good issues out of it so I can't say we didn't get treated well.

From what I understand, the possible hiatus (or cancellation... whatever) of Tales is not due to sales or lack of sales, but simply because Peter doesn't want to have Tales ongoing without Volume 4 beside it. And I think that's just stupid. Peter said he wasn't interested in making money with Volume 4; I would expect the same to hold true for Tales, so sales shouldn't be an issue at all.

Originally Posted by CyberCubed

As for the cartoon, we know its still going on with the second season of FF and someone who saw Laird at a convention said that he wanted to wrap up FF and bring the boys back home. I would hope they continue where they left off but that's probably too far in the future (it'd be late 2008 ) to think about at the moment.

I know someone said this, but I don't think it ever came from the person who actually talked to Laird. And exactly what convention did Peter go to in recent months? He wasn't at NY Comic-Con... I can't help but wonder how much truth there is in this statement. (Not that I doubt that this is what Peter wants, but it would add to my confidence that this might actually happen if it came from a solid source.)

Originally Posted by RAPH 'N' ROLL

As for the comics, Tales has been kinda hit and miss, with silly characters like the Wild West Cowboys bringing the book back to an original toon level.

Tales has been hit and miss, but I don't think it has anything to do with the occassional "silly" issue. I enjoy a little silliness now and then, but not all of the "serious" issues have worked well, and those are the ones that need to.

Originally Posted by RAPH 'N' ROLL

The prequel books were another disappointment, a missed opportunity if there ever was one.
The covers are both gorgeous and deceiving, with the inside artwork being a complete let down, no wonder they weren't marketed at a bigger level, people would be laughing at the amateur art.

I couldn't agree with you more on this. Not only was the interior art lacking in general, but because they were tied-in to the movie, they really should have been in color. And these issues really needed to come out as originally planned. Three of them came out after the movie, which just totally destroyed the purpose of them in the first place.

Originally Posted by RAPH 'N' ROLL

I don't like the way Laird is re-inking the original books, the way VOL 1 was toned was superb, there was tones of detail and those Eastman and Laird issues had a real grittiness to them.

Again, couldn't agree more. But I've rambled enough about that in other places...

Originally Posted by RAPH 'N' ROLL

If we do get a movie sequel I hope Kevin learns from his mistakes, or we get a new director/ script writer.

While the movie definitely had its weaknesses, Kevin gets the Turtles. I would rather have him in charge again than some new guy who may or may not get the Turtles and may or may not be able to put together a decent story. I also think Kevin gets what did and didn't work with this movie, putting him in prime position to fix the stuff that didn't work in a sequel. It would also be a lot easier for him if he didn't have so many restraints placed on him by executives and ratings boards.