TMNT What If? - Page 2

*Spitfire* · 05-17-2007, 08:53 PM

The idea of Saki and Yoshi being the same guy really gets me. It would make sense too. And like I said Leo finding out he killed Yoshi would be a pretty big hammer down on his heart.

Plus with Splinter dead like you guys said they would never know if Splinter knew all along or if he never knew because he was still an animal.

**Jester** · 05-17-2007, 08:57 PM

Ok here's what I thought would make a good story:

The Oroku family is very well to-do. Oroku Nagi falls in love with a woman, Tang Shen, who secretly loves Hamato Yoshi. Together Yoshi and Shen conspire for her to marry Nagi and later the 2 would kill him and the lovers would flee with Nagi's wealth. Little did they expect Nagi's young brother, Saki, to witness the murder. Yoshi tries to kill him but the young child escapes, and the lovers agree to flee to America to avoid the athorities finding out that they had killed the promenant Oroku Nagi.

Well, what do you think?

*VaughnMichael* · 05-17-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThemanthatwouldbeRaphael

Also, going back to Putrescent's idea, I really wish Mirage would do a Tales of Shredder miniseries, something that shows Saki's rise to become the Shredder after Nagi died. It should culminate with Saki's fight with the Turtles from issue 1.

Thats actully a really good idea.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Ok here's what I thought would make a good story:

The Oroku family is very well to-do. Oroku Nagi falls in love with a woman, Tang Shen, who secretly loves Hamato Yoshi. Together Yoshi and Shen conspire for her to marry Nagi and later the 2 would kill him and the lovers would flee with Nagi's wealth. Little did they expect Nagi's young brother, Saki, to witness the murder. Yoshi tries to kill him but the young child escapes, and the lovers agree to flee to America to avoid the athorities finding out that they had killed the promenant Oroku Nagi.

Well, what do you think?

I'd say I'm a bit confused and I'd say we're all on to something here but of course some people may say we're all just on something lol

**Jester** · 05-17-2007, 08:58 PM

I know I am....it's called Dr. Pepper.

You're seriously lost by my story Putrescent?

*VaughnMichael* · 05-17-2007, 09:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

I know I am....it's called Dr. Pepper.

You're seriously lost by my story Putrescent?

mmm dr. pooper haha
and yeah slightly I get it and slightly I don't but only slightly but it's also slightly kinda raph.

Time Mistress · 05-17-2007, 09:51 PM

A Tales of Shredder series would be awesome!

I don't like the idea of evil Yoshi as a retcon, but I do love the idea for a alternate universe or fanfic tale. If anyone write one please let me know so I can read it.

Overall, the cycle of revenge is more prominant in Mirage than one of justice, even though the bad guys derseve what they get. Nagi beats Shen. Yoshi kills Nagi. Saki kills Yoshi and Shen. Turtles "kill" Saki. The Foot try to kill the Turtles. Karai tries to make peace. The Foot kill Karai's daughter as a warning not to make peace. Karai propositions the Turtles kill the Elite, they do. And finally the clan war is over, for now. But it could easily descent into war again at any time.

Pimiko (Shredder's daughter) tried to start the cycle of killing again in Vol. 3 by going after the Turtles. I haven't read Image. How/Why did Raph take over as Shredder? Did he go bad for a while? Was he trying to bring some kind of peace/truce to the Hamato/Turlte and Oruku/Foot clans?

Another question is did Saki know about how bad his brother was and that Nagi beat Shen which is why Yoshi killed him. If Saki had known why, could there have been the posibility for forgiveness? Or do reasons not matter to a crime lord.

*Sewer Bull* · 05-18-2007, 01:54 AM

This thread reminds me of that Splinter's profile on TMNTDissected - and the hypothesis that OT Hamato Yoshi/Splinter could have been a lot more mischievous than we all think.

Seriously... being thrown out of the Foot Clan just because of having his hood nailed to the wall with a knife? And then being accused of a murderous attempt because of that? And then his fleeing to the US and hiding in the NYC sewers, despite allegedly being innocent? Instead of fighting for his good name? Seriously, that doesn't make sense at all. Even the fact he moved to the NYC, not to a lot closer LA.

The old rodent must have hidden a lot from his past, even in the old toon.

*Scandia* · 05-18-2007, 04:59 AM

Now what if Splinter's Vendetta against Saki was all a misguided Lie!

Poor Turtles. But they would still be able to forge their own paths- and possibly forgive Splinter.

What if he didn't really understand everything that was going on and made the turtles think they where fighting and killing in the name of Yoshi and honor but what if it was all just one big miss guided lie or mistake?

Even if it started out as a misguided lie, the Turtles and Splinter can still use their skills for good.

What if Yoshi was really the evil one and Saki was the good one?

Now that would be a humongous plot twist. But does there always have to be a good one and an evil one? In many Japanese manga and anime, there are simply two sides to the story. Two conflicting desires and motivations. No clear cut hero or villain. Magic Knight Rayearth is a good example. And Zagato's costume even kinda looks like Shredder's.

What if instead of Yoshi having Splinter as a Pet what if Saki did?

I wonder if Saki was simply out for revenge, or if he always had evil tendencies and had always been up to no good. If this were the case, then Splinter either would have copied his nefarious tendencies OR realized that what Saki was doing was wrong and wanted to correct his mistakes.

*Original TMNT Cartoon Fan* · 05-18-2007, 06:59 AM

Shredder lied to the Punk Frogs, telling them that he was a good guy and the TMNT were the bad guys. The Punk Frogs was his idea to do the same as Splitner did with the TMNT, but teaching them to be bad guys instead. This is one of the stories closest to this theme. It would have been more interesting if the Punk Frogs at least worked with Shredder for some episodes more before changing side.

*odupianist* · 05-18-2007, 07:50 AM

Quote:

You're seriously lost by my story Putrescent?

I get it lol.

I like the idea of Saki raising the TMNT instead of Splinter. Could be interesting. Or here's one for ya. What if every thing had happened but there was no Utroms. No turtles mutating. How would that have affected Shredder and his business?

*VaughnMichael* · 05-18-2007, 08:43 PM

Wow ok to make things even more crazy and to make thing go even more with my idea Splinter just admited in issue #34 of tales of the tmnt vol.2 that he may have missed things being a pet rat back then and the the mutant he is now.
I also just thought of something else that would tie my idea in to the story even more now.
That image of a dead and bloody Splinter at the hands of one of the turtles (donallo?) in tmnt vol.2
It all could happen like this Leonardo learns at the battle nexus that what Splinter knew was not the full truth leonardo come back telling the others they don't believe him this sends leonardo over the deep end.
As we know before Donatello snipped something from splinters body before he was set a flame.
Donatello could want the true answeres and having this part of Splinter decides to tell his brothers which he will struggle with telling them about.
After some heated discussions they decide to go forth with Donatellos idea of trying to clone Splinter to get to the bottom of this news.
I could see Raphael & Michaelangelo being totally against the idea I believe Leonardo would be also but he would only go forth with the idea only to prove to the others what he learned and that everything he saw and was told in the nexus was the truth.
Of course after months of tests Donatello finally clones Splinter of course everything goes completly wrong and this creature is not the Master they love and respect but contains the being of something evil (a demon?)
This could lead to the scene from volume 2 where we see the bloody splinter at the hands of one of the turtles.
Just thought I'd add a few more of my thoughts.

**Jester** · 05-18-2007, 08:50 PM

Man....trippy. If I understood it all anyway....:p

*VaughnMichael* · 05-18-2007, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jester

Man....trippy. If I understood it all anyway....:p

oh your kidding right? lol sorry I was typing my thoughts I tend to just sream everything along when I type like that.
If you want me to explain anything I can

The Shelf · 05-19-2007, 09:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Putrescent

Wow ok to make things even more crazy and to make thing go even more with my idea Splinter just admited in issue #34 of tales of the tmnt vol.2 that he may have missed things being a pet rat back then and the the mutant he is now.
I also just thought of something else that would tie my idea in to the story even more now.
That image of a dead and bloody Splinter at the hands of one of the turtles (donallo?) in tmnt vol.2
It all could happen like this Leonardo learns at the battle nexus that what Splinter knew was not the full truth leonardo come back telling the others they don't believe him this sends leonardo over the deep end.
As we know before Donatello snipped something from splinters body before he was set a flame.
Donatello could want the true answeres and having this part of Splinter decides to tell his brothers which he will struggle with telling them about.
After some heated discussions they decide to go forth with Donatellos idea of trying to clone Splinter to get to the bottom of this news.
I could see Raphael & Michaelangelo being totally against the idea I believe Leonardo would be also but he would only go forth with the idea only to prove to the others what he learned and that everything he saw and was told in the nexus was the truth.
Of course after months of tests Donatello finally clones Splinter of course everything goes completly wrong and this creature is not the Master they love and respect but contains the being of something evil (a demon?)
This could lead to the scene from volume 2 where we see the bloody splinter at the hands of one of the turtles.
Just thought I'd add a few more of my thoughts.

Dude... That makes sense, and I wouldn't mind it if they used that to fulfill that dream and the snipping Don took from Splinter. But... I would hate it so much if Splinter screwed up that badly and Shredder ended up being the righteous one. That could very well ruin the turtles for me if that was the case. That's like Sins Past where Gwen's good character got ruined, but for Splinter and Yoshi instead. Retcons are evil, folks... Don't give in!

*Andrew NDB* · 05-19-2007, 02:24 PM

I'd give my left... body part to see a "Tales of Oroku Saki" mini-series. Absolutely.

Though I wrote it the better part of a decade ago, I wrote a little fanfic about a possible Saki backstory (Mirage universe), his rise to power and the like as well as how/why he became the Shredder framed with sequences of an old Leonardo meeting who he thinks is Saki again in the 2050s.

http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/decadence.html

05-17-2007, 08:53 PM	#21
Spitfire Writer • Director Join Date: Mar 2004 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 12,035	The idea of Saki and Yoshi being the same guy really gets me. It would make sense too. And like I said Leo finding out he killed Yoshi would be a pretty big hammer down on his heart. Plus with Splinter dead like you guys said they would never know if Splinter knew all along or if he never knew because he was still an animal. __________________ Check out my online portfolio http://www.christopherpelletier.com/

05-17-2007, 08:57 PM	#22
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,294	Ok here's what I thought would make a good story: The Oroku family is very well to-do. Oroku Nagi falls in love with a woman, Tang Shen, who secretly loves Hamato Yoshi. Together Yoshi and Shen conspire for her to marry Nagi and later the 2 would kill him and the lovers would flee with Nagi's wealth. Little did they expect Nagi's young brother, Saki, to witness the murder. Yoshi tries to kill him but the young child escapes, and the lovers agree to flee to America to avoid the athorities finding out that they had killed the promenant Oroku Nagi. Well, what do you think? __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

05-17-2007, 08:58 PM	#24
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,294	I know I am....it's called Dr. Pepper. You're seriously lost by my story Putrescent? __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

05-17-2007, 09:51 PM	#26
Time Mistress Stone Warrior Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pennshellvania, or the 79th level of Null-Time Posts: 710	A Tales of Shredder series would be awesome! I don't like the idea of evil Yoshi as a retcon, but I do love the idea for a alternate universe or fanfic tale. If anyone write one please let me know so I can read it. Overall, the cycle of revenge is more prominant in Mirage than one of justice, even though the bad guys derseve what they get. Nagi beats Shen. Yoshi kills Nagi. Saki kills Yoshi and Shen. Turtles "kill" Saki. The Foot try to kill the Turtles. Karai tries to make peace. The Foot kill Karai's daughter as a warning not to make peace. Karai propositions the Turtles kill the Elite, they do. And finally the clan war is over, for now. But it could easily descent into war again at any time. Pimiko (Shredder's daughter) tried to start the cycle of killing again in Vol. 3 by going after the Turtles. I haven't read Image. How/Why did Raph take over as Shredder? Did he go bad for a while? Was he trying to bring some kind of peace/truce to the Hamato/Turlte and Oruku/Foot clans? Another question is did Saki know about how bad his brother was and that Nagi beat Shen which is why Yoshi killed him. If Saki had known why, could there have been the posibility for forgiveness? Or do reasons not matter to a crime lord. __________________ AKA the Edwardian Adventuress and Fairlady_Z "You just made your last mistake, Bugeyes -- 'cuz nobody beats up my best buddy and gets away with it -- Nobody! Got that?!" Raphael about Michaelangelo, TMNT Volume 1

05-18-2007, 01:54 AM	#27
Sewer Bull Devil's Advocate Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 4,768	This thread reminds me of that Splinter's profile on TMNTDissected - and the hypothesis that OT Hamato Yoshi/Splinter could have been a lot more mischievous than we all think. Seriously... being thrown out of the Foot Clan just because of having his hood nailed to the wall with a knife? And then being accused of a murderous attempt because of that? And then his fleeing to the US and hiding in the NYC sewers, despite allegedly being innocent? Instead of fighting for his good name? Seriously, that doesn't make sense at all. Even the fact he moved to the NYC, not to a lot closer LA. The old rodent must have hidden a lot from his past, even in the old toon. __________________ Soooo... THIS* is how you spend your free time now?!*

05-18-2007, 04:59 AM	#28
Scandia Mad Scientist Join Date: May 2007 Location: Florida Posts: 2,265	Now what if Splinter's Vendetta against Saki was all a misguided Lie! Poor Turtles. But they would still be able to forge their own paths- and possibly forgive Splinter. What if he didn't really understand everything that was going on and made the turtles think they where fighting and killing in the name of Yoshi and honor but what if it was all just one big miss guided lie or mistake? Even if it started out as a misguided lie, the Turtles and Splinter can still use their skills for good. What if Yoshi was really the evil one and Saki was the good one? Now that would be a humongous plot twist. But does there always have to be a good one and an evil one? In many Japanese manga and anime, there are simply two sides to the story. Two conflicting desires and motivations. No clear cut hero or villain. Magic Knight Rayearth is a good example. And Zagato's costume even kinda looks like Shredder's. What if instead of Yoshi having Splinter as a Pet what if Saki did? I wonder if Saki was simply out for revenge, or if he always had evil tendencies and had always been up to no good. If this were the case, then Splinter either would have copied his nefarious tendencies OR realized that what Saki was doing was wrong and wanted to correct his mistakes.

05-18-2007, 06:59 AM	#29
Original TMNT Cartoon Fan Overlord Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Sweden Posts: 10,478	Punk Frogs Shredder lied to the Punk Frogs, telling them that he was a good guy and the TMNT were the bad guys. The Punk Frogs was his idea to do the same as Splitner did with the TMNT, but teaching them to be bad guys instead. This is one of the stories closest to this theme. It would have been more interesting if the Punk Frogs at least worked with Shredder for some episodes more before changing side.

05-18-2007, 08:43 PM	#31
VaughnMichael I'm Baaaaaaccck! Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Pittsburgh, PA Posts: 11,833	Wow ok to make things even more crazy and to make thing go even more with my idea Splinter just admited in issue #34 of tales of the tmnt vol.2 that he may have missed things being a pet rat back then and the the mutant he is now. I also just thought of something else that would tie my idea in to the story even more now. That image of a dead and bloody Splinter at the hands of one of the turtles (donallo?) in tmnt vol.2 It all could happen like this Leonardo learns at the battle nexus that what Splinter knew was not the full truth leonardo come back telling the others they don't believe him this sends leonardo over the deep end. As we know before Donatello snipped something from splinters body before he was set a flame. Donatello could want the true answeres and having this part of Splinter decides to tell his brothers which he will struggle with telling them about. After some heated discussions they decide to go forth with Donatellos idea of trying to clone Splinter to get to the bottom of this news. I could see Raphael & Michaelangelo being totally against the idea I believe Leonardo would be also but he would only go forth with the idea only to prove to the others what he learned and that everything he saw and was told in the nexus was the truth. Of course after months of tests Donatello finally clones Splinter of course everything goes completly wrong and this creature is not the Master they love and respect but contains the being of something evil (a demon?) This could lead to the scene from volume 2 where we see the bloody splinter at the hands of one of the turtles. Just thought I'd add a few more of my thoughts.

05-18-2007, 08:50 PM	#32
Jester Rat-faced Dude-guy Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arkansas Posts: 26,294	Man....trippy. If I understood it all anyway....:p __________________ "Clearly, you're Ninja Turtling incorrectly." - Leo656

05-19-2007, 02:24 PM	#35
Andrew NDB Weed Whacker Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Auburn, WA Posts: 34,285	I'd give my left... body part to see a "Tales of Oroku Saki" mini-series. Absolutely. Though I wrote it the better part of a decade ago, I wrote a little fanfic about a possible Saki backstory (Mirage universe), his rise to power and the like as well as how/why he became the Shredder framed with sequences of an old Leonardo meeting who he thinks is Saki again in the 2050s. http://www.ninjaturtlesempire.com/decadence.html __________________ [ ODYSSEY \| ORIGIN \| THE IMAGE/VOL. 3 CONCLUSION \| THE SHELLSHOCKED PODCAST \| ON FACEBOOK ]